The Jack Ross Poll

[The Modfather]

Here's a poll to answer whether it's a majority that want Ross sacked or a majority that don't want him sacked.

[flash]

Seriously?

[Crunchie]

Here's a poll to answer whether it's a majority that want Ross sacked or a majority that don't want him sacked.
I don't want him sacked :aok:

[bingo70]

Seriously?

I think this thread and poll is a good idea.

The other thread in the go was distorted by the thread title. IMO that thread kept coming back with people saying you can't sack him because of X,Y or Z when in reality, not many people were actually wanting him sacked, they were just critical of certain aspects of his management.

[superfurryhibby]

Ross out. Had enough, end of.

[flash]

I think this thread and poll is a good idea.

The other thread in the go was distorted by the thread title. IMO that thread kept coming back with people saying you can't sack him because of X,Y or Z when in reality, not many people were actually wanting him sacked, they were just critical of certain aspects of his management.
Some joker has already voted they want him sacked.

[calumhibee1]

I think this thread and poll is a good idea.

The other thread in the go was distorted by the thread title. IMO that thread kept coming back with people saying you can't sack him because of X,Y or Z when in reality, not many people were actually wanting him sacked, they were just critical of certain aspects of his management.

:agree:

It’s a thread title that really isn’t particularly reflective of much, if any, of the conversation from Sunday onwards.

[bingo70]

Some joker has already voted they want him sacked.

The *******. How dare they?!

In all seriousness though, fine, if lots want him sacked then I’ve maybe got the mood of that other thread wrong. I suspect this poll will show far greater support for Ross than that previous thread title would suggest though.

[Jones28]

Seriously?

Saves trawling through 50 pages of bollocks tbf

[H18 SFR]

Huge numbers backing the manager. Delighted to see this.

[Jones28]

Poll will remain roughly as it is: most don't want him sacked, a small number do but there will also be a huge amount totally apathetic towards him.

[Since452]

Pathetic. Not even going to lower myself to voting

[Steve20]

Huge numbers backing the manager. Delighted to see this.

Jack Ross hasn't got it in him to win a trophy, beat either of the old firm or even provide football that's even close to entertaining. But yeah, it's great to see our fans love being mediocre.

[blackpoolhibs]

I dont know why there are so many options, either you want him out or not?

[Jones28]

Jack Ross hasn't got it in him to win a trophy, beat either of the old firm or even provide football that's even close to entertaining. But yeah, it's great to see our fans love being mediocre.

Third place = mediocre :confused:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Jack Ross hasn't got it in him to win a trophy, beat either of the old firm or even provide football that's even close to entertaining. But yeah, it's great to see our fans love being mediocre.

Hi Steve - long time no see.

Would never known we lost a game. See you after the next defeat.

[H18 SFR]

Jack Ross hasn't got it in him to win a trophy, beat either of the old firm or even provide football that's even close to entertaining. But yeah, it's great to see our fans love being mediocre.

I’m sure you will agree, football is often about opinions.

[scoopyboy]

Speaking with a mate a wee while ago and he raised a reasonable point.

Going back years ago visits to Hampden were few and far between but say since 2012 they have been frequent and averaged easily over one a season.

Does anyone think that because it is more regular fans are that bit more impatient for success? Familiarity breeds contempt kind of idea.

I have no gripe with the poll and actually think it is a good thing and it will be interesting to compare it to the one which I think was after the League Cup semi.

One last thought, is it the younger people that have nothing but regular visits to Hampden that are more keen to have him removed?

[Stuart93]

Hi Steve - long time no see.

Would never known we lost a game. See you after the next defeat.

See this is pish. This response is pish.

It’s a poll on whether people want JR to remain in charge or not. The posters probably voted then decided to give their opinion on it

Whether you agree or not why not just let them give their opinion and move on without a snidey comment like this?

[Danderhall Hibs]

See this is pish. This response is pish.

It’s a poll on whether people want JR to remain in charge or not. The posters probably voted then decided to give their opinion on it

Whether you agree or not why not just let them give their opinion and move on without a snidey comment like this?

Go and look at his posting history.

[Partyraiser]

Theres no way we should be thinking about sacking a manager whos just taken us to our best league position in 15 years, its mental. Saturday was awful and I concede it's not the first time it's happened under Ross but he needs to be given the opportunity to build on the foundations laid this season. If offered 3rd place, 2 semis and a final at the start of the season I'd have taken it and been delighted

[Hiber-nation]

Some joker has already voted they want him sacked.

Sure you said you wanted him out on the PM Board not long after the game finished on Saturday....or maybe I missed the joke :greengrin

[Stuart93]

Go and look at his posting history.

Who cares though? If he posts negative stuff all the time then so be it. A football forums all about opinion whether they be positive or negative.

Why should the poster be made to feel like they aren’t allowed to post because other people don’t agree with what they’re saying?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Who cares though? If he posts negative stuff all the time then so be it. A football forums all about opinion whether they be positive or negative.

Why should the poster be made to feel like they aren’t allowed to post because other people don’t agree with what they’re saying?

He can post all he wants - but I’m being up front that I disregard anything he says. Just my opinion.

[Stuart93]

He can post all he wants - but I’m being up front that I disregard anything he says. Just my opinion.

But that’s not what you’ve said to the poster though? You’ve made a *****y throw away comment to them which adds absolutely nothing of substance to the thread.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Pathetic. Not even going to lower myself to voting

It's a fair question, given the amount of debate on the other thread. I hope, and think, most will support Ross at this time.

[Danderhall Hibs]

But that’s not what you’ve said to the poster though? You’ve made a *****y throw away comment to them which adds absolutely nothing of substance to the thread.

Not that bothered mate. Your posts aren’t adding much either tbh. :dunno:

[H18 SFR]

It's a fair question, given the amount of debate on the other thread. I hope, and think, most will support Ross at this time.

Amount of doubters? 85% want him in post.

This puts the issue to bed for me.

[Since90+2]

Finish 3rd in the league and there's a poll asking if he should be sacked.

A section of our support have went mad.

[JimBHibees]

See this is pish. This response is pish.

It’s a poll on whether people want JR to remain in charge or not. The posters probably voted then decided to give their opinion on it

Whether you agree or not why not just let them give their opinion and move on without a snidey comment like this?

Think it is a fair point if the boy only turns up when we lose.

[bingo70]

Finish 3rd in the league and there's a poll asking if he should be sacked.

A section of our support have went mad.

Have you read the poll or looked at the results of it?

[superfurryhibby]

Amount of doubters? 85% want him in post.

This puts the issue to bed for me.

Your arithmetic is slightly out on this one.

40% either want him out or wouldn't care much if he were to leave.

Chances are Ross will be gone by the end of October next season.

[SChibs]

Theres no way we should be thinking about sacking a manager whos just taken us to our best league position in 15 years, its mental. Saturday was awful and I concede it's not the first time it's happened under Ross but he needs to be given the opportunity to build on the foundations laid this season. If offered 3rd place, 2 semis and a final at the start of the season I'd have taken it and been delighted

This. Hearts fans hounded out Neilson and that started a decline which led them to the Championship. Ross has got us the results to put us in a very strong position and it give us the opportunity to improve further. The style hasn't been great at time and there have been some very disappointing results but at the end of the day we had out best finish in years.

Fair enough if we finished 9th and lost the cup final I'd like to see him replaced but he is quite clearly doing something right if we finished 3rd and made 2 semis and a final under him.

[Crunchie]

Speaking with a mate a wee while ago and he raised a reasonable point.

Going back years ago visits to Hampden were few and far between but say since 2012 they have been frequent and averaged easily over one a season.

Does anyone think that because it is more regular fans are that bit more impatient for success? Familiarity breeds contempt kind of idea.

I have no gripe with the poll and actually think it is a good thing and it will be interesting to compare it to the one which I think was after the League Cup semi.

One last thought, is it the younger people that have nothing but regular visits to Hampden that are more keen to have him removed?
That's a very good point, I'd imagine it is mainly the younger generation in the get him out camp.

[StockholmHibs]

This topic is only up for debate because the ones that want him out are doing the most shouting.

[SaulGoodman]

Jack Ross hasn't got it in him to win a trophy, beat either of the old firm or even provide football that's even close to entertaining. But yeah, it's great to see our fans love being mediocre.

Agreed. I hate our mediocre (third placed) finish in the league, our mediocre (third best) games won statistic, our mediocre (third best) games lost statistic, our mediocre (third best) goal difference..

I hate our mediocre front 3 that have scored 36 goals between them.

I hate our mediocre 20,000 seat stadium and our mediocre training center.

I hate our mediocre owner with big (probably mediocre) plans for us.

We were 1 game away from winning the Scottish cup for the second time in 5 years. We played horrific, I think the tactics were wrong and I blame Ross for that, do I want him gone on the back of it? No.

We’ve just finished third for the second time in my life and people are acting like we’re a team that’s just been relegated.

[GRA]

So a fair few thus far would want to sack the manager who has just led us to our highest placed finish in 16 years, highest season win percentage since the 70s, most away wins ever in the top flight and to Hampden three times? :confused:

Considering some of the awful seasons I've witnessed over the last 30 odd years of supporting Hibs I find it baffling this is even being proposed.

Give the guy a chance to at least try and build on what has, overall, been a good season!

[CallumLaidlaw]

Jack Ross hasn't got it in him to win a trophy, beat either of the old firm or even provide football that's even close to entertaining. But yeah, it's great to see our fans love being mediocre.

The exact opposite actually. Which is why I want to keep the manager that took us to 3rd for the first time in 16years and our first final in 5 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ahibby]

A bit like the referendum take it or leave it. Poor show. By the way some cant even use the poll so not a true reflection. Still doubt. How about a poll , do you like JRs brand of football?

[Northernhibee]

A bit like the referendum take it or leave it. Poor show. By the way some cant even use the poll so not a true reflection. Still doubt. How about a poll , do you like JRs brand of football?

How about we accept that we’ve lost and the moment is gone now (and that doesn’t mean that we have to be happy about it) rather than flooding the site with poll after poll?

[ahibby]

The exact opposite actually. Which is why I want to keep the manager that took us to 3rd for the first time in 16years and our first final in 5 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In isolation looks alright but ignores the other teams situations this year compared to other years snd standard of football on display.

[He's here!]

So a fair few thus far would want to sack the manager who has just led us to our highest placed finish in 16 years, highest season win percentage since the 70s, most away wins ever in the top flight and to Hampden three times? :confused:

Considering some of the awful seasons I've witnessed over the last 30 odd years of supporting Hibs I find it baffling this is even being proposed.

Give the guy a chance to at least try and build on what has, overall, been a good season!

Four times. Three semi-finals and a final.

You're spot on though. No Hibs owner in their right mind would even consider sacking a manager with a record which, on paper, is very good indeed - and one which most other clubs would bite your hand off for. It's the gloom and frustration caused by Saturday's shocking no-show at Hampden, coupled with the belief that we should have done better in the other Hampden games which is causing fans to vote with their heart rather than their head.

Ross has comfortably earned himself another season at least.

[ahibby]

How about we accept that we’ve lost and the moment is gone now (and that doesn’t mean that we have to be happy about it) rather than flooding the site with poll after poll?

I didnt want another poll. It was rhetorical.

[CallumLaidlaw]

In isolation looks alright but ignores the other teams situations this year compared to other years snd standard of football on display.

Does it? Or do we give some leeway for the reduction in staff at Hibs too, no fans etc in the middle of a pandemic.

End of the day we vastly improved our points tally. A points tally that in 17 of the last 20 years was more than the team in 4th place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SaulGoodman]

In isolation looks alright but ignores the other teams situations this year compared to other years snd standard of football on display.

It’s a miracle we managed to avoid whatever situation every other team in the league faced except us.

[Robbo6-2]

Hes got to go.

[superfurryhibby]

A bit like the referendum take it or leave it. Poor show. By the way some cant even use the poll so not a true reflection. Still doubt. How about a poll , do you like JRs brand of football?

Aye, a bit like that except there are four quite distinct options on offer.

Poll seems like a sensible idea to me. An interesting gauge of the Hibs.Net users feelings and it's showing a decent majority want Ross to continue.

[Northernhibee]

I didnt want another poll. It was rhetorical.

I just wish that some on here would get the delusion that grandeur out of our head that we should be winning any non OF cup final as it would seem.

We played a very good team, they stifled us completely and we didn’t play well. There have been plenty bright spots in the season to look back on too.

Anyone voting for “Ross out” simply doesn’t understand football. I can’t respect that opinion whatsoever.

[SaulGoodman]

.

Anyone voting for “Ross out” simply doesn’t understand football. I can’t respect that opinion whatsoever.

I can respect it, some folk can’t take to him and think we can do better, that’s fine.

I can’t respect the hyperbolic pish that gets thrown around by some folk that poke their heads out once every few months and act like we’re the worst team in the league.

[Sir David Gray]

Quite happy for him to stay for now as we did well to finish 3rd but next season's a big one for him after our Hampden nightmares this season.

We need some big performances and results in the derbies as well.

[Hibrandenburg]

Is there already a post on Kickback highlighting this thread? It's just inviting Yam fuddery.

[WeeRussell]

Your arithmetic is slightly out on this one.

40% either want him out or wouldn't care much if he were to leave.

Chances are Ross will be gone by the end of October next season.

Out of interest, what is it that’s made you draw your final conclusion? You genuinely think he’s more likely to not be our manager come November?

[ahibby]

I just wish that some on here would get the delusion that grandeur out of our head that we should be winning any non OF cup final as it would seem.

We played a very good team, they stifled us completely and we didn’t play well. There have been plenty bright spots in the season to look back on too.

Anyone voting for “Ross out” simply doesn’t understand football. I can’t respect that opinion whatsoever.

Thats your opinion how would you feel if others said they dont respect it?

[AgentDaleCooper]

This is basically a poll to find out if the majority of hibs fans are deluded idiots. Another rubbish thread.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Thats your opinion how would you feel if others said they dont respect it?

Being of the same opinion, i wouldn't care, because the opposing opinion is so utterly absurd and self defeating.

[Brightside]

We know that Jack reads the forum too. Well done everyone. :rolleyes:

[Northernhibee]

Thats your opinion how would you feel if others said they dont respect it?

Couldn’t care less, if they think a manager who has done more good than bad for us should be fired then their opinion is of no value to me.

[H18 SFR]

Your arithmetic is slightly out on this one.

40% either want him out or wouldn't care much if he were to leave.

Chances are Ross will be gone by the end of October next season.

I see it has dropped from 85% to 84% who don't want him sacked either way so you are indeed correct, my numbers are wrong!

[AgentDaleCooper]

Quite happy for him to stay for now as we did well to finish 3rd but next season's a big one for him after our Hampden nightmares this season.

We need some big performances and results in the derbies as well.
This is reasonable skepticism IMO. No one, i think, who doesn't want him sacked, also thinks he's not got something to prove.

[ahibby]

Being of the same opinion, i wouldn't care, because the opposing opinion is so utterly absurd and self defeating.

Thats your opinion. Conclusions without premise are invalid arguements.

[Jones28]

We know that Jack reads the forum too. Well done everyone. :rolleyes:

Then he will see he was the backing of the majority of the support :aok:

[JohnMcM]

I don’t want him sacked. I’m not doing the poll because the result will no doubt be skewed by a large number of ‘other team’ fans.

[B.H.F.C]

I just wish that some on here would get the delusion that grandeur out of our head that we should be winning any non OF cup final as it would seem.

We played a very good team, they stifled us completely and we didn’t play well. There have been plenty bright spots in the season to look back on too.

Anyone voting for “Ross out” simply doesn’t understand football. I can’t respect that opinion whatsoever.

It’s kind of been done to death but very few folk have complained about the defeat. Nearly everyone has complained about the manner of the defeat though. I don’t think it’s being deluded to expect your team to give everything in a cup final. Ours didn’t, and that has driven the reaction since the game.

[scoopyboy]

Pathetic. Not even going to lower myself to voting

Your call obviously but IMHO the more people that vote the better.

[Northernhibee]

It’s kind of been done to death but very few folk have complained about the defeat. Nearly everyone has complained about the manner of the defeat though. I don’t think it’s being deluded to expect your team to give everything in a cup final. Ours didn’t, and that has driven the reaction since the game.

I think we were completely stifled by a team who have been together for years and knew that as a team still rebuilding, they could stop our midfield from functioning.

I don’t think we threw it away on Saturday, St Johnstone earned it from front to back.

[scoopyboy]

I don’t want him sacked. I’m not doing the poll because the result will no doubt be skewed by a large number of ‘other team’ fans.

I get that but if all the Jack Ross supporters don't vote then this will lead to an unrepresentative result.

[ahibby]

Your call obviously but IMHO the more people that vote the better.

A better indication is going to be how many more buy ST between Saturday and new season. I will wait for that poll.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Thats your opinion. Conclusions without premise are invalid arguements.

No, they aren't arguments at all, they are propositions.

I'm not making an argument, because the case is so utterly self evident. But here you go:

P1: If your manager has led you to your best league position in well over a decade in his first full season, he shouldn't be sacked.

P2: Jack Ross led led us to our best league position in well over a decade in his first full season.

C: Jack Ross shouldn't be sacked.


To disagree, you need to deny P1, which is completely and utterly ludicrous. The only aspect of such disagreement worth discussing IMO is why TF a section of our support are so reactionary.

The ridiculous fact is, if we'd been papped out at the semi-final stage, this discussion wouldn't be happening.

[Northernhibee]

No, they aren't arguments at all, they are propositions. If you want to know more i'm happy to help ;)

I'm not making an argument, because the case is so utterly self evident. But here you go:

P1: If your manager has led you to your best league position in well over a decade in his first season, he shouldn't be sacked.

P2: Jack Ross led led us to our best league position in well over a decade.

C: Jack Ross shouldn't be sacked.


To disagree, you need to deny P1, which is completely and utterly ludicrous. The only aspect of such disagreement worth discussing IMO is why TF a section of our support are so reactionary.

The ridiculous fact is, if we'd been papped out at the semi-final stage, this discussion wouldn't be happening.

Yep. It’s the same reasoning that led to think that “balance” meant finding out the views of an expert economist on Brexit and then giving Mark Francois a shot. One is worth paying attention to, the other is loudmouth Neanderthal Mark Francois, it’s not balance.

[loanheadhibby]

Finish 3rd in the league and there's a poll asking if he should be sacked.

A section of our support have went mad.

I am apathetic about him.

After Saturday's dismal display, I am not surprised folk want shot of him. Why must we accept the mediocrity of Saturday?

[Northernhibee]

I am apathetic about him.

After Saturday's dismal display, I am not surprised folk want shot of him. Why must we accept the mediocrity of Saturday?

So we sack a manager after any mediocre performance despite the league campaign being our best in years? What kind of logic is that? What are we actually “accepting” there?

[superfurryhibby]

Out of interest, what is it that’s made you draw your final conclusion? You genuinely think he’s more likely to not be our manager come November?

Next season will surely see a tougher league, with Hearts back in it. The Sheep could hardly be in any worse state than this season and Celtic will have improved. Maybe St Johnstone will emerge as a dark horse and carry on their half decent League form too.

Hibs will be in transition again, with potentially half the regular starters goner (Irvine, Hallberg, Marciano, Doig, Porteous, Nisbet and Boyle) leaving.

I see Ross's record in the transfer market as being quite mixed. He struck gold with Nisbet and the emergence of Doig. Can't see that happening again this coming season.

By then the end of October we will probably have been pumped out of Europe and will have played a quarter of the league fixtures , as well as being well into the League Cup.

Ross won't survive anything less than a strong start and I think that will be harder to achieve than last season. He probably has some credit in the bank with the owner, but I still think he isn't Gordon's man and that the owner might have his own views about who should be managing the side.

[Lith]

This is basically a poll to find out if the majority of hibs fans are deluded idiots. Another rubbish thread.

Sorry i must have missed that option

Guess thats what you voted

We should also just had a poll where no deluded idiots were allowed to post... only a vote would have been great then noone has to read the same pesh as the other post

Great we were third as that doesnt happen a lot,,, and yes if you asked me at the begining of the season i would have accepted that.... The only reason were were third was that every other team were dross I watched every home game and most of the away games and can only this of a handfull that we played really well in... the rest were mediocre.

We have had some absolutely terrible games we have won where we were not the best team.... win ugly is what we have done more times than i would have liked....

the cup games and in perticular the St J games have been terrible... Manager doesnt learn from previous games... to be a good manager you need to learn by your mistakes and he cannot... he stands with his hands in his pockets and doesnt look bothered and thats how his team look to me...

I dont know what they do in training...ii am sure Ross doesnt know what he is doing either and the performances are there for a ll to see

So thats my opinion and am sorry if its not the same as yousr or anyone elses... i have not seen anything that makes me think he can make changes that effect games

[loanheadhibby]

Agreed. I hate our mediocre (third placed) finish in the league, our mediocre (third best) games won statistic, our mediocre (third best) games lost statistic, our mediocre (third best) goal difference..

I hate our mediocre front 3 that have scored 36 goals between them.

I hate our mediocre 20,000 seat stadium and our mediocre training center.

I hate our mediocre owner with big (probably mediocre) plans for us.

We were 1 game away from winning the Scottish cup for the second time in 5 years. We played horrific, I think the tactics were wrong and I blame Ross for that, do I want him gone on the back of it? No.

We’ve just finished third for the second time in my life and people are acting like we’re a team that’s just been relegated.

I hate the fact that none of the above turned up on Saturday when it really counted. Where were the mediocre front 3 with 36 goals on Saturday?

I can stomach losing most games, but Saturday was absolutely pathetic from the team that finished 3rd.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I am apathetic about him.

After Saturday's dismal display, I am not surprised folk want shot of him. Why must we accept the mediocrity of Saturday?
No one is asking you to accept it.

This is almost the exact definition of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[JohnM1875]

How long are we going to just keep going round in circles on here? Until next season starts? If so it's going to be a long pre-season.

Jack Ross isn't going anywhere after that league position, no matter how much some folk might want him sacked.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I hate the fact that none of the above turned up on Saturday when it really counted. Where were the mediocre front 3 with 36 goals on Saturday?

I can stomach losing most games, but Saturday was absolutely pathetic from the team that finished 3rd.

I completely agree with this post, but it's still not enough to merit sacking the manager.

[.Sean.]

Quite happy for him to stay for now as we did well to finish 3rd but next season's a big one for him after our Hampden nightmares this season.

We need some big performances and results in the derbies as well.
Yep. If we were to lose say another derby at home to Hearts and pumped out Europe early, he’s not got much credit in the bank to claw it back IMO.

Said it before though, and in hindsight it’s easy to say Ross should have done this or done that, but the players are more to blame for that spineless, embarrassment on Saturday. They should have enough professional pride and self-pride in a national cup final to be able to pick themselves up for a game like that.

I’m not disgusted with Jack Ross after Saturday, in fact I’m more than disgusted with the players, I’m still fuming

[matty_f]

Yep. It’s the same reasoning that led to think that “balance” meant finding out the views of an expert economist on Brexit and then giving Mark Francois a shot. One is worth paying attention to, the other is loudmouth Neanderthal Mark Francois, it’s not balance.

:greengrin

[marinello59]

I am apathetic about him.

After Saturday's dismal display, I am not surprised folk want shot of him. Why must we accept the mediocrity of Saturday?

The display on Saturday was way below mediocre.
The season as a whole on the other hand surely can’t be called mediocre as we finished third in the league. It hasn’t been pretty to watch but very little football without fans has been, it really is a different game.

[Northernhibee]

I hate the fact that none of the above turned up on Saturday when it really counted. Where were the mediocre front 3 with 36 goals on Saturday?

I can stomach losing most games, but Saturday was absolutely pathetic from the team that finished 3rd.

Doesn’t every game count?

We must be doing well if we have competitive games that don’t count.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Sorry i must have missed that option

Guess thats what you voted

We should also just had a poll where no deluded idiots were allowed to post... only a vote would have been great then noone has to read the same pesh as the other post

Great we were third as that doesnt happen a lot,,, and yes if you asked me at the begining of the season i would have accepted that.... The only reason were were third was that every other team were dross I watched every home game and most of the away games and can only this of a handfull that we played really well in... the rest were mediocre.

We have had some absolutely terrible games we have won where we were not the best team.... win ugly is what we have done more times than i would have liked....

the cup games and in perticular the St J games have been terrible... Manager doesnt learn from previous games... to be a good manager you need to learn by your mistakes and he cannot... he stands with his hands in his pockets and doesnt look bothered and thats how his team look to me...

I dont know what they do in training...ii am sure Ross doesnt know what he is doing either and the performances are there for a ll to see

So thats my opinion and am sorry if its not the same as yousr or anyone elses... i have not seen anything that makes me think he can make changes that effect games

That's fine, and i share most of your sentiments. It's just utterly absurd to sack a manager who has got you into 3rd place, and that's before you start considering Covid and all that.

[Yorkshire HFC]

And fans get upset when they think footballers don't show them enough respect or commitment?

You couldn't make it up.

[Hibee Mac]

Jack Ross is building something here, no way should he be sacked.

[CapitalGreen]

Next season will surely see a tougher league, with Hearts back in it. The Sheep could hardly be in any worse state than this season and Celtic will have improved. Maybe St Johnstone will emerge as a dark horse and carry on their half decent League form too.

Hibs will be in transition again, with potentially half the regular starters goner (Irvine, Hallberg, Marciano, Doig, Porteous, Nisbet and Boyle) leaving.

I see Ross's record in the transfer market as being quite mixed. He struck gold with Nisbet and the emergence of Doig. Can't see that happening again this coming season.

By then the end of October we will probably have been pumped out of Europe and will have played a quarter of the league fixtures , as well as being well into the League Cup.

Ross won't survive anything less than a strong start and I think that will be harder to achieve than last season. He probably has some credit in the bank with the owner, but I still think he isn't Gordon's man and that the owner might have his own views about who should be managing the side.

So all the other teams are going to be better next season but Hibs aren’t?

Hibs are the only team that will be in transition??

Aberdeen - potentially losing Ferguson and McCrorie. All 3 of their forwards they signed in January to replace Cosgrove have now left. Glass has done nothing of note so far to suggest he’s going to be a transformational manager for them.

Celtic - currently no manager but heavily linked with Eddie Howe - is he good, only ever worked well at one team but got them relegated. Edouard and Ajer likely leaving.

Hearts - less than convincing in the Championship - significant additions needed to make them competitive. Question marks over the future of their manager.

[flash]

Jack Ross hasn't got it in him to win a trophy, beat either of the old firm or even provide football that's even close to entertaining. But yeah, it's great to see our fans love being mediocre.

Predictable but still utterly moronic.

[truehibernian]

Certainly don’t want him sacked, however I do want his sides to be far more creative and attack minded, rather than counter attacking and giving up possession. Style has to improve markedly, and I want far more aggressive tactics if we reach latter stages of cup competitions.

It’s a ‘must do a lot better’ from me. I include the recruitment team in that too. We must bring in more creative options.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Another way of looking at it - what manager in their right mind would take a job at hibs if we sacked Ross after finishing 3rd. Trust between the manager and the board is something we as fans don't really get much insight into, but is surely incredibly important?

[Lith]

That's fine, and i share most of your sentiments. It's just utterly absurd to sack a manager who has got you into 3rd place, and that's before you start considering Covid and all that.

And i would say to you thats fine and its your opinion.... its defo not absurd to sack a manager in third.... we need to look at the bigger picture... he just doesnt motivate the players at all..... He has no fight in him at all and that reflects through the players performances.... 100% Lennon would not have stood for that first half performance and the second half would have been better


Its not all about 1 game though is it... we have had far too many performances like this all season.... Ross cant change how the games are going and his tactics to me seem pathetic...

I love Hibs and want the best for them and for me, it aint Jack Ross.....

[He's here!]

So we sack a manager after any mediocre performance despite the league campaign being our best in years? What kind of logic is that? What are we actually “accepting” there?


The word "unacceptable" gets thrown around a lot in the wake of a shambles like Saturday. What, as you say, does it actually mean?

An "unacceptable" result/display implies that you refuse to accept it. As a fan, what are your options in that case? Do you walk away from the club, thus showing that you are unable to "accept" supporting a team which serves up such sub-standard fare? Or do you bombard the club with flak, perhaps organising a demonstration at Easter Road to register your refusal to accept the display?

Perhaps if fans DID take such actions in the wake of dismal displays we'd help to ensure the team understood quite how let down we feel and we'd have to suffer fewer such disappointments. Otherwise I guess the majority of us will simply mutter bitterly about it for a good long while before eventually "accepting" it.

[Northernhibee]

And i would say to you thats fine and its your opinion.... its defo not absurd to sack a manager in third.... we need to look at the bigger picture... he just doesnt motivate the players at all..... He has no fight in him at all and that reflects through the players performances.... 100% Lennon would not have stood for that first half performance and the second half would have been better


Its not all about 1 game though is it... we have had far too many performances like this all season.... Ross cant change how the games are going and his tactics to me seem pathetic...

I love Hibs and want the best for them and for me, it aint Jack Ross.....

We finished third and he has never failed to get us to Hampden in a cup competition.

Are we expected to win every single game or something? Even Rangers couldn’t do that.

And before you say that’s my opinion, it’s not. That’s all facts.

[nonshinyfinish]

Another way of looking at it - what manager in their right mind would take a job at hibs if we sacked Ross after finishing 3rd. Trust between the manager and the board is something we as fans don't really get much insight into, but is surely incredibly important?

Nailed on that we'd get Jupp Heynckes in – he's been binned by two different clubs immediately after winning the Champions League.

[loanheadhibby]

So we sack a manager after any mediocre performance despite the league campaign being our best in years? What kind of logic is that? What are we actually “accepting” there?

Mate, when are they parading the 3rd place trophy?

Did you see Callum Davidson doing a full belly flop across the changing room? Do you think Callum Davidson is thinking, goodness, I wished I had finished 3rd or do you think he is polishing 2 cups today?

As I said, I am not bothered if he stays or if he goes but I'll take a Scottish Cup & League cup win over 3rd place in the league every day of the week.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Another way of looking at it - what manager in their right mind would take a job at hibs if we sacked Ross after finishing 3rd. Trust between the manager and the board is something we as fans don't really get much insight into, but is surely incredibly important?

Good point. It would represent the type of job insecurity you get at clubs like Real Madrid (win everything or go) only we aren't Real Madrid.

[Northernhibee]

Mate, when are they parading the 3rd place trophy?

Did you see Callum Davidson doing a full belly flop across the changing room? Do you think Callum Davidson is thinking, goodness, I wished I had finished 3rd or do you think he is polishing 2 cups today?

As I said, I am not bothered if he stays or if he goes but I'll take a Scottish Cup & League cup win over 3rd place in the league every day of the week.

I get the feeling that some on here are polishing things other than trophies.

Is third place not an achievement for us? Should every single manager since we last finished third have been sacked too?

Honestly, have a word with yourself. How did you get yourself in the position where you’re putting forward arguments like that?

[matty_f]

And i would say to you thats fine and its your opinion.... its defo not absurd to sack a manager in third.... we need to look at the bigger picture... he just doesnt motivate the players at all..... He has no fight in him at all and that reflects through the players performances.... 100% Lennon would not have stood for that first half performance and the second half would have been better


Its not all about 1 game though is it... we have had far too many performances like this all season.... Ross cant change how the games are going and his tactics to me seem pathetic...

I love Hibs and want the best for them and for me, it aint Jack Ross.....

Lennon got knocked out the cup, at home, to Queen of the South. He was capable of bad results and performances too.

[SaulGoodman]

I hate the fact that none of the above turned up on Saturday when it really counted. Where were the mediocre front 3 with 36 goals on Saturday?

I can stomach losing most games, but Saturday was absolutely pathetic from the team that finished 3rd.

Go ahead and ignore the rest of my post why don’t you.

[loanheadhibby]

No one is asking you to accept it.

This is almost the exact definition of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I'm not suggesting he is sacked. I an neither here nor there on sacking him.

After 3 pathetic perfomances at Hampden tho, I fully understand why some people are not exactly over joyed by the prospect of Ross staying?

Put another way, his old team had 2 performances at Wembley and never showed up. His current team have had 4 performances at Hampden at turned up once. Jack Ross gets us there, but you cannot argue with the fact he has not delivered when it comes to the crunch?

[SaulGoodman]

Mate, when are they parading the 3rd place trophy?

Did you see Callum Davidson doing a full belly flop across the changing room? Do you think Callum Davidson is thinking, goodness, I wished I had finished 3rd or do you think he is polishing 2 cups today?

As I said, I am not bothered if he stays or if he goes but I'll take a Scottish Cup & League cup win over 3rd place in the league every day of the week.
Can we not say the result on Saturday was **** but finishing 3rd was good? Why does not winning the cup void everything else from this season?

[Northernhibee]

I'm not suggesting he is sacked. I an neither here nor there on sacking him.

After 3 pathetic perfomances at Hampden tho, I fully understand why some people are not exactly over joyed by the prospect of Ross staying?

Put another way, his old team had 2 performances at Wembley and never showed up. His current team have had 4 performances at Hampden at turned up once. Jack Ross gets us there, but you cannot argue with the fact he has not delivered when it comes to the crunch?

He led us to third in the league, our best league season in over a decade. We beat Aberdeen at Pittodrie (which we haven’t done since 2012) to do so. Is that not “the crunch”?

[loanheadhibby]

Go ahead and ignore the rest of my post why don’t you.

What? Your points about the stadium and owner? I thought this thread was about the manager and whether he should stay or go? What has the owner and 20k stadium got to do with us not performing at Hampden?

the club is well run, it's a nice stadium, we have a fantastic owner, we need to start producing the goods when it really matters.

[loanheadhibby]

He led us to third in the league, our best league season in over a decade. We beat Aberdeen at Pittodrie (which we haven’t done since 2012) to do so. Is that not “the crunch”?

You are stating facts, I am not disagreeing with them.

So as Hibs fans, we are delighted we won at Aberdeen for the 1st time since 2012 and won 3rd place in the league.

I'd take defeat at Aberdeen, 4th place in the league and 2 cups any day of the week. Just my preference. For me Saturday was the ultimate crunch. We sh*t the bed on Saturday.

[SaulGoodman]

What? Your points about the stadium and owner? I thought this thread was about the manager and whether he should stay or go? What has the owner and 20k stadium got to do with us not performing at Hampden?

the club is well run, it's a nice stadium, we have a fantastic owner, we need to start producing the goods when it really matters.

No I meant the point where I blatantly said the cup final wasn’t good enough from the team or Jack Ross.

Thanks for proving my point about the fact some people will forget the fact our front 3 have been excellent all season because of one game.

Is 3rd place and European football not producing the goods? Or are the only goods winning cup finals?

[AgentDaleCooper]

I'm not suggesting he is sacked. I an neither here nor there on sacking him.

After 3 pathetic perfomances at Hampden tho, I fully understand why some people are not exactly over joyed by the prospect of Ross staying?

Put another way, his old team had 2 performances at Wembley and never showed up. His current team have had 4 performances at Hampden at turned up once. Jack Ross gets us there, but you cannot argue with the fact he has not delivered when it comes to the crunch?

He won a crunch game against aberdeen, and our performance in the semi was a big test given our last game at hampden. I'd say he's hit and miss in crunch games, but over the piece, given it was his first full season, he's been pretty decent at least.

[Northernhibee]

You are stating facts, I am not disagreeing with them.

So as Hibs fans, we are delighted we won at Aberdeen for the 1st time since 2012 and won 3rd place in the league.

I'd take defeat at Aberdeen, 4th place in the league and 2 cups any day of the week. Just my preference. For me Saturday was the ultimate crunch. We sh*t the bed on Saturday.

I’d take a night with Keira Knightley, a box of liquorice allsorts and a 1-1 draw to East Fife, didn’t happen though.

What’s your point, caller?

[hibsbollah]

This is getting like Trump vs Biden. Differences of opinion not tolerated by the other side. Even asking the 'wrong' questions frowned upon.

That other thread was hard reading, looks like this is going the same way.

[SaulGoodman]

I’d take a night with Keira Knightley, a box of liquorice allsorts and a 1-1 draw to East Fife, didn’t happen though.

What’s your point, caller?

That’s disgusting, this is a family forum you shouldn’t talk about things like that. Liquorice allsorts are rank.

[Northernhibee]

That’s disgusting, this is a family forum you shouldn’t talk about things like that. Liquorice allsorts are rank.

Reported.

[Lith]

Lennon got knocked out the cup, at home, to Queen of the South. He was capable of bad results and performances too.

Matty.
My point on Lennon could have been any manager. i just mentioned Lennon... it could have been Yogi or Mixu.... Everyone is totally blinded by third place and have blinkers on or green specs on....

[SaulGoodman]

Reported.

Just put me on ignore if you are happy to accept sweetie mediocrity and go along eating liquorice allsorts.

[loanheadhibby]

No I meant the point where I blatantly said the cup final wasn’t good enough from the team or Jack Ross.

Thanks for proving my point about the fact some people will forget the fact our front 3 have been excellent all season because of one game.

Is 3rd place and European football not producing the goods? Or are the only goods winning cup finals?

have our front 3 been excellent all season tho? They have had a decent season but failed to deliver on Saturday.

See on 21st May next year, will you be watching reruns of David Grays winner or will you be watching replays of Doidge scoring the winner at Aberdeen to secure 3rd place?

I am not disputing 3rd place is a good achievement. I am greedy tho and wanted 2 cups as well. Why is it St Johnstone get to celebrate 2 cups? I am like a 5 years old kicking and screaming and make no apology. I wanted both they cups and would take 11th place in the league.

[AgentDaleCooper]

You are stating facts, I am not disagreeing with them.

So as Hibs fans, we are delighted we won at Aberdeen for the 1st time since 2012 and won 3rd place in the league.

I'd take defeat at Aberdeen, 4th place in the league and 2 cups any day of the week. Just my preference. For me Saturday was the ultimate crunch. We sh*t the bed on Saturday.

This is the whole problem - you're only looking at the extremes. I'm not delighted about anything. I'm satisfied bordering very happy we came 3rd, yet gutted and very unimpressed with the final. Ross has a major point to prove, but that's a long way from meaning he should be sacked.

[fiolex1]

Somebody else posted our cup failure rate and it’s pretty poor. I think to change a deep rooted culture and environment takes a long time and think Ron Gordon may achieve this in time but for me JR is lacking. JR has failed in the tactical game in my opinion and doesn’t have a plan B when we go behind in games. Some of our players when we’re in front seem to blossom but when we’re up against it and need players to stand up and be counted and play for the jersey, seem to fade away. Only my opinion of course.

[Northernhibee]

Just put me on ignore if you are happy to accept sweetie mediocrity and go along eating liquorice allsorts.

You’re just not happy because Jack Ross isn’t up for the Crunchie games.

[SaulGoodman]

You’re just not happy because Jack Ross isn’t up for the Crunchie games.

:hilarious

[blackpoolhibs]

You’re just not happy because Jack Ross isn’t up for the Crunchie games.

We could all do with a boost after Saturday.

[jeffers]

We know that Jack reads the forum too. Well done everyone. :rolleyes:

Good, maybe he’ll come on and apologise for Saturday or explain what his tactics were. He didn’t blame the players so is he accepting the responsibility for that pathetic performance ?

[Hibbyradge]

We could all do with a boost after Saturday.

He doesn't know what to do when his tictacs aren't working.

[Hibbyradge]

Good, maybe he’ll come on and apologise for Saturday or explain what his tactics were. He didn’t blame the players so is he accepting the responsibility for that pathetic performance ?

Maybe he's giving St Johnstone the credit.

[blackpoolhibs]

Can we see who voted which way on this?

[Northernhibee]

He doesn't know what to do when his tictacs aren't working.

All because the lady loves mediocri-tray.

[Hibbyradge]

All because the lady loves mediocri-tray.

As the wise old saying goes, "There's many a slip twix Cup and Hibs".

[Hibrandenburg]

All because the lady loves mediocri-tray.

And all because we fudged the final.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I just don't think Ross deserves a Bounty to be put on his head

[The Modfather]

And all because we fudged the final.

With the formation and team selection Saturdays outcome was always bounty happen

[Fergus52]

Matty.
My point on Lennon could have been any manager. i just mentioned Lennon... it could have been Yogi or Mixu.... Everyone is totally blinded by third place and have blinkers on or green specs on....

"blinded"?

Not wanting your manager sacked after he delivers the clubs best league finish since 2005, with the best top league win percentage since Jock Stein, is completely fair enough.

[Heisenberg]

"blinded"?

Not wanting your manager sacked after he delivers the clubs best league finish since 2005, with the best top league win percentage since Jock Stein, is completely fair enough.

My thoughts exactly.

[Hibbyradge]

With the formation and team selection Saturdays outcome was always bounty happen

Folk are disappointed just now, but there'll be a ripple of excitement when our European draw is made.

[Lith]

"blinded"?

Not wanting your manager sacked after he delivers the clubs best league finish since 2005, with the best top league win percentage since Jock Stein, is completely fair enough.


three years ago we finished 4th with more point than this season so its not the best since 2005

[Northernhibee]

three years ago we finished 4th with more point than this season so its not the best since 2005

Congratulations on voiding your argument within the first six words.

[Bostonhibby]

Bring back a Hecky, Butcher and Lenny dream team. Levein in charge of youth development.

While we're at it Petrie out.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Lith]

Congratulations on voiding your argument within the first six words.

am so sorry i was taking about the win %

[Magpie]

Let’s see how we are getting on around October/November. We will have played our European games, an Edinburgh Derby and League Cup games by then.

Knocked out of Europe in the early qualifying rounds, a loss in the Edinburgh Derby and knocked out of the League Cup, I think a lot more people will lose patience.

[Since452]

three years ago we finished 4th with more point than this season so its not the best since 2005

And got pumped out a semi and were emptied out by Hearts in the 4th round of the Scottish Cup. This season was better.

[Magpie]

And got pumped out a semi and were emptied out by Hearts in the 4th round of the Scottish Cup. This season was better.

Enjoyed the season we finished 4th a lot more than this season.

[Since452]

Enjoyed the season we finished 4th a lot more than this season.

But it was still a less successful season

[Magpie]

But it was still a less successful season

In terms of league position yes. I enjoyed the way we played, beating the likes of Rangers, Celtic and Hearts a lot more than this season though.

[Lith]

But it was still a less successful season

Less league points this season though and much much better to watch than this season for me anyway

hey you cant please everyone

[Northernhibee]

Less league points this season though and much much better to watch than this season for me anyway

hey you cant please everyone

And some people can’t be pleased.

[superfurryhibby]

Despite it being quite challenging to say otherwise on here, there's 40 % either saying Ross should go or that they wouldn't be bothered if he does. That's a significant number.

I sincerely hope he signs great players, takes the team forward, plays more interesting football, beats Hearts, wins a cup final. If he does, no one will be happier.

However, the cup capitulations does mean that tolerance levels are wearing thin, as indicated by the poll. Even the most supportive of supporters of Ross must see that?

[CapitalGreen]

Less league points this season though and much much better to watch than this season for me anyway

hey you cant please everyone

But we failed to win the big games when it mattered. Knocked out the Scottish Cup by Hearts and only taking 2 points from our final 3 league games to throw away an excellent chance at finishing third. For all the good football we played we achieved less than this season and then went on a downward spiral for 18 months until the appointment of Jack Ross.

[Lith]

And some people can’t be pleased.

I will be pleased when he is shown the door and we have a better manager

End of from me anyway

Have a good night

[Danderhall Hibs]

Are we saying we’re not looking for consistency during the season as long as there are a few 5-5s with Rangers?

[CapitalGreen]

Despite it being quite challenging to say otherwise on here, there's 40 % either saying Ross should go or that they wouldn't be bothered if he does. That's a significant number.

I sincerely hope he signs great players, takes the team forward, plays more interesting football, beats Hearts, wins a cup final. If he does, no one will be happier.

However, the cup capitulations does mean that tolerance levels are wearing thin, as indicated by the poll. Even the most supportive of supporters of Ross must see that?

Or 85% saying they don’t want him sacked.

[The Modfather]

Folk are disappointed just now, but there'll be a ripple of excitement when our European draw is made.

We’ll draw whoever we draw, no sense in getting your snickers in a twist about it.

[superfurryhibby]

Or 85% saying they don’t want him sacked.

Tolerance is wearing thin. The part about not being bothered if he should leave is quite telling for me.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Or 85% saying they don’t want him sacked.

That’s how I read it. I suppose I’m not surprised that the minority are spinning it to make it sound like there’s more of them.

Looks comprehensive to me as it stands.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Tolerance is wearing thin. The part about not being bothered if he should leave is quite telling for me.

I reckon they’re still in a highly emotional state caused by Saturday and when they calm down and reflect they’ll fall into the majority. Just down to timing of the question.

[Hibbyradge]

We’ll draw whoever we draw, no sense in getting your snickers in a twist about it.

That's easy for you to say but getting to places like Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan or Belarus is no picnic.

[CapitalGreen]

Tolerance is wearing thin. The part about not being bothered if he should leave is quite telling for me.

Over 2/3rds of those who said they don’t want him sacked didn’t say they wouldn’t be bothered if he left.

[superfurryhibby]

Over 2/3rds of those who said they don’t want him sacked didn’t say they wouldn’t be bothered if he left.

You're not really making sense and you can't count.

Ross out.

[Hibbyradge]

That’s how I read it. I suppose I’m not surprised that the minority are spinning it to make it sound like there’s more of them.

Looks comprehensive to me as it stands.


I think that not being bothered if the manager stays or goes can't be taken as supportive.

I actually don't think the question should have been an option. It's a cop out answer.

Do you support the manager or don't you? Stay or go? Or, as Mel Brooks might have said "Hump or die?"

[Dashing Bob S]

Don’t want Ross sacked but he can’t keep coming up short in big games like Hampden semis/finals and derbies, even if he is consistently guiding us into top four slots and Europe. His track record as a manager in high pressure one-off games is not great and he needs to resolve this. He needs to realise that in such games you need more than skill, or even work rate, you need real leaders and players who are prepared to put themselves on the line for you.

We’ve been to Hampden four times in semis and finals and our only triumph has been against a Dundee United side who are a poorer version of us (decent front three, iffy midfield and occasionally dodgy defence). Against limited teams we are either outfought, or worse, as last Saturday, don’t even bother showing up.

It’s perverse that we fear games against St Johnstone and Hearts more than Celtic and Rangers, but that’s Hibs.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Over 2/3rds of those who said they don’t want him sacked didn’t say they wouldn’t be bothered if he left.

Yeah, but not being bothered if he left isn't a completely insane position to take. I wouldn't be devastated tbh. But calling for him to be sacked is a symptom of a deluded and reactionary element of our support that ultimately harms us, as it has been exploited by other managers. It's ridiculous.

[AliboyFC]

Pathetic. Not even going to lower myself to voting

U probably voted

[blackpoolhibs]

I think that not being bothered if the manager stays or goes can't be taken as supportive.

I actually don't think the question should have been an option. It's a cop out answer.

Do you support the manager or don't you? Stay or go? Or, as Mel Brooks might have said "Hump or die?"

Exactly, i couldn't care less these days about anyone connected to the club, maybe it's an age thing but i don't get connected to players or managers now like i did when younger.

Either you want him or you dont, its a wishy washy answer that is a complete cop out. :agree:

[wookie70]

I went with "I don't want him sacked, but wouldn't be overly bothered if he were to leave". That is how I felt about Stubbs, Collins, Hughes and Lennon too. I wanted Butcher sacked and would have quite happily have seen Calderwood physically removed. I was OK with Fenlon staying to the end of the year but it had become untenable due to the fans views on him, primarily due to style of play and results in a few big games.

St Johnstone as a very good example of sticking with managers and not throwing babies out with bathwater. Hearts are a very good example of panicking.

I'm not sure if Ross is the answer but he certainly is nowhere near a problem and could easily grow and learn from this year as could some of our players. He has done more than enough to suggest he has lots of good attributes but so did Alex Miller and I still shudder every time I think of him. If I was Jack Ross I would roll the dice a little in terms of playing style. I think Hibs fans would be happier finishing 4th or 5th with expansive football and lots of goals than 3rd playing the pragmatic style we do. I get the feeling he is peeing with the cock he has and is not one for stuffy football so hope he will sign a few players with movement, pace and a spark and give them instructions to express themselves. For all I don't like Lennon sometimes not having any tactics allows players to express themselves and play with freedom. We need some of his carefree attitude to tactics combined with a bit of pragmatism. I don't want a McInnes type manager where they and the support will die the death of a thousand cuts and be bored into parting company. I want a style of play that we all at least associate with Hibs even if we don't witness it that often.

[CapitalGreen]

You're not really making sense and you can't count.

Ross out.

I can’t count?

157 have said they don’t want him sacked, 107 of which have selected the option that didn’t contain the caveat that they wouldn’t be bothered if he left. 107/157 = 68% or 2/3rds+

[easty]

Somebody else posted our cup failure rate and it’s pretty poor. I think to change a deep rooted culture and environment takes a long time and think Ron Gordon may achieve this in time but for me JR is lacking. JR has failed in the tactical game in my opinion and doesn’t have a plan B when we go behind in games. Some of our players when we’re in front seem to blossom but when we’re up against it and need players to stand up and be counted and play for the jersey, seem to fade away. Only my opinion of course.

I don’t see how anyone can believe a final from years ago with different Hibs players, different managers/coaches, different opponents can have anything to do with what happening in the present.

Our previous failures have nothing to do with the current one. There’s no curse. Easter Road isn’t built on an old Indian burial ground. We don’t have too few healing crystals. The managers horoscopes don’t matter.

[The Modfather]

Exactly, i couldn't care less these days about anyone connected to the club, maybe it's an age thing but i don't get connected to players or managers now like i did when younger.

Either you want him or you dont, its a wishy washy answer that is a complete cop out. :agree:

I think that’s part of the problem and why it’s so entrenched on here. You’re either for Ross or you’re against him. He’s either a good manager or he’s a bad manager. We’re either a good team or a bad team. The majority of things are neither black or white though.

I don’t actively want him sacked nor think he should be in danger of being sacked, but not really enthused to make a passionate case for him either. There’s a sizeable number of posters who fall into this middle ground and have said so. That’s why I chose the options that I did, I’m not unhappy but still to be fully convinced. That doesn’t fit neatly into either sack him or keep him.

[Northernhibee]

I can’t count?

157 have said they don’t want him sacked, 107 of which have selected the option that didn’t contain the caveat that they wouldn’t be bothered if he left. 107/157 = 68% or 2/3rds+

50% of fans said they’d rather have arithmetic on Hibs.Net than chocolate puns and vice versa for the other 50%.

[Hibbyradge]

50% of fans said they’d rather have arithmetic on Hibs.Net than chocolate puns and vice versa for the other 50%.

Can't you just change the topic?

[blackpoolhibs]

I think that’s part of the problem and why it’s so entrenched on here. You’re either for Ross or you’re against him. He’s either a good manager or he’s a bad manager. We’re either a good team or a bad team. The majority of things are neither black or white though.

I don’t actively want him sacked nor think he should be in danger of being sacked , but not really enthused to make a passionate case for him either. There’s a sizeable number of posters who fall into this middle ground d and have said so. That’s why I chose the options that I did, I’m not unhappy but still to be fully convinced. That doesn’t fit neatly into either sack him or keep him.

I dont see that, you either want him sacked or you dont in my opinion. One you are backing him 100%, the other you are not, and just waiting for the next defeat.

[The Modfather]

Can't you just change the topic?

Some folk revels in the chocolate puns

[easty]

You cannae sack a manager in his first full season who’s delivered a third place finish and a cup final.

I’m gutted not to have won the cup, but sacking a Hibs manager under these circumstances seems mental to me.

We’re moving in the right direction. A manager who comes in and fails to improve us should go, a manager who does improve us...obviously shouldn’t.

[The Modfather]

I dont see that, you either want him sacked or you dont in my opinion. One you are backing him 100%, the other you are not, and just waiting for the next defeat.

That’s fair enough. I don’t think by not being fully convinced by Ross I’m merely waiting for the next defeat.

[greenginger]

I can’t count?

157 have said they don’t want him sacked, 107 of which have selected the option that didn’t contain the caveat that they wouldn’t be bothered if he left. 107/157 = 68% or 2/3rds+


Dont think so, it’s 47 of the 157 vote for the caveat.

[wookie70]

I think that’s part of the problem and why it’s so entrenched on here. You’re either for Ross or you’re against him. He’s either a good manager or he’s a bad manager. We’re either a good team or a bad team. The majority of things are neither black or white though.

I don’t actively want him sacked nor think he should be in danger of being sacked, but not really enthused to make a passionate case for him either. There’s a sizeable number of posters who fall into this middle ground and have said so. That’s why I chose the options that I did, I’m not unhappy but still to be fully convinced. That doesn’t fit neatly into either sack him or keep him.

There are plenty people at my work who do their job but are not massively impressive. I don't want any of those people sacked as just like Jack Ross they are doing what is expected. In terms of Ross he is almost doing exactly what Ron described when saying where he wants us to be. Best of the rest and in the mix for Cups. Ross is delivering that, it isn't that exciting, but he is definitely doing a decent job. I'm not for him other than he has my support in being a Hibs manager acting professionally and doing a decent job. I've no idea how anyone could want him sacked.

It would be fascinating to see if those that want him sacked were those that were hugely in favour of Lennon staying when we were in 8th place(or thereabouts) because he had the track record of a 4th place finish and a few dismal semi final performances.

[Michael]

A lot of people have quite unrealistic expectations.

Highest league position for 16 years, semi final LC, final of SC.

Yes, the St. Johnstone results were disappointing, but that's the lottery of cup football. With the consistency shown in the league and cups we'll have an excellent chance of winning trophies with Jack Ross.

[Not In The Know]

Jack Ross hasn't got it in him to win a trophy, beat either of the old firm or even provide football that's even close to entertaining. But yeah, it's great to see our fans love being mediocre.

Hes proven hes a decent manager. Big thing now is that he needs to prove he can take a team the extra step.

What may that be ... who knows? Does he need to change motivational methods, does he need to change tactics to be more aggressive?

I'd like to think he's smart enough to do that so lets see how it all goes...

[CapitalGreen]

Dont think so, it’s 47 of the 157 vote for the caveat.

I was talking about those that voted without caveat.


107 of which have selected the option that didn’t contain the caveat

[blackpoolhibs]

There are plenty people at my work who do their job but are not massively impressive. I don't want any of those people sacked as just like Jack Ross they are doing what is expected. In terms of Ross he is almost doing exactly what Ron described when saying where he wants us to be. Best of the rest and in the mix for Cups. Ross is delivering that, it isn't that exciting, but he is definitely doing a decent job. I'm not for him other than he has my support in being a Hibs manager acting professionally and doing a decent job. I've no idea how anyone could want him sacked.

It would be fascinating to see if those that want him sacked were those that were hugely in favour of Lennon staying when we were in 8th place(or thereabouts) because he had the track record of a 4th place finish and a few dismal semi final performances.

Good point, i was behind Lennon for almost the entirety of his tenure, as i believe someone who has actually achieved success with us, deserves a chance to try again for success if things have not gone well for them.

They have the knowledge of what it takes, and might just be a better choice than someone we know nothing about or someone who's up and coming?

[superfurryhibby]

I was talking about those that voted without caveat.

You got it wrong, it's ok, it happens. Just ask Jack Ross.

[CapitalGreen]

I’d be interested in seeing the overlap in a Venn diagram of people who are calling for Ross to be sacked who were also also calling for Tommy Wright to be appointed after Hecky left. 🤔

[CapitalGreen]

You got it wrong, it's ok, it happens. Just ask Jack Ross.

You haven’t explained how so I’ll note you down as a slaver and move on.

[Frazerbob]

If only we could sack crap fans.

[superfurryhibby]

You haven’t explained how so I’ll note you down as a slaver and move on.

Resorting to personal insults is always the mark of an idiot so I'm clearly in good company.

[easty]

Can I get a Venn diagram of who agrees with CapitalGreen, who agrees with superfurryhibby, and those who aren’t sure why they’re arguing?

[Northernhibee]

Can I get a Venn diagram of who agrees with CapitalGreen, who agrees with superfurryhibby, and those who aren’t sure why they’re arguing?

Anyone fancy a twix?

What a car crash of a thread.

[wookie70]

Can I get a Venn diagram of who agrees with CapitalGreen, who agrees with superfurryhibby, and those who aren’t sure why they’re arguing?
I'm not not in the CapitalGreen side

[Hibbyradge]

I'm not not in the CapitalGreen side

Me too.

[nonshinyfinish]

Me too.

I don't disagree.

[Hibbyradge]

You haven’t explained how so I’ll note you down as a slaver and move on.

You didn't get it wrong. It was just a funny way of making your point. Pesky double negatives!

Currently a total of 163 people have said they don't want him sacked. Only 49 of them have said that they wouldn't be bothered. That's ~ 30%.

You said "Over 2 thirds of those who said they don't want him sacked, didn't say they wouldn't be bothered if he left".

So, you're correct. I make it ~ 70%.

Edit: It was actually a triple negative (sort of)! :hilarious

[AliboyFC]

If only we could sack crap fans.

Having an opinion doesn't mean they are crap fans.

[Peevemor]

Having an opinion doesn't mean they are crap fans.Depends on the opinions and how they are voiced.

[Danderhall Hibs]

If only we could sack crap fans.

Start a poll? :hilarious

[matty_f]

Resorting to personal insults is always the mark of an idiot so I'm clearly in good company.

👀

[Hibrandenburg]

Can't you just change the topic?

He Revels in that kind of behaviour.

[Hibrandenburg]

Some folk revels in the chocolate puns

Damn

[The Modfather]

Damn

Serves you right for trying to be a smart(ies) arse 😀

[SlickShoes]

Vocal minority then, since currently, over 80% do not want him sacked.

Quite amazed at how sensible the poll results are considering some of the patter on here the last few days.

[superfurryhibby]

Vocal minority then, since currently, over 80% do not want him sacked.

Quite amazed at how sensible the poll results are considering some of the patter on here the last few days.


:top marks :aok:

[Bostonhibby]

If only we could sack crap fans.I can feel a poll coming on[emoji16]

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Sir David Gray]

Yep. If we were to lose say another derby at home to Hearts and pumped out Europe early, he’s not got much credit in the bank to claw it back IMO.

Said it before though, and in hindsight it’s easy to say Ross should have done this or done that, but the players are more to blame for that spineless, embarrassment on Saturday. They should have enough professional pride and self-pride in a national cup final to be able to pick themselves up for a game like that.

I’m not disgusted with Jack Ross after Saturday, in fact I’m more than disgusted with the players, I’m still fuming

:agree: The players have a lot to answer for and the ones who are still with us next season have a lot of making up to do to the fans for putting in such a pathetic display in a cup final.

[WeeRussell]

Next season will surely see a tougher league, with Hearts back in it. The Sheep could hardly be in any worse state than this season and Celtic will have improved. Maybe St Johnstone will emerge as a dark horse and carry on their half decent League form too.

Hibs will be in transition again, with potentially half the regular starters goner (Irvine, Hallberg, Marciano, Doig, Porteous, Nisbet and Boyle) leaving.

I see Ross's record in the transfer market as being quite mixed. He struck gold with Nisbet and the emergence of Doig. Can't see that happening again this coming season.

By then the end of October we will probably have been pumped out of Europe and will have played a quarter of the league fixtures , as well as being well into the League Cup.

Ross won't survive anything less than a strong start and I think that will be harder to achieve than last season. He probably has some credit in the bank with the owner, but I still think he isn't Gordon's man and that the owner might have his own views about who should be managing the side.

That’s a reasonable response, in fact it’s a standout compared to a lot of posts on this and similar threads ;) albeit a much more pessimistic view than my own. 👍 cheers for taking the time.

[Hibbyradge]

Serves you right for trying to be a smart(ies) arse 😀

Correct. He's a proper nougat.

[Hibrandenburg]

Serves you right for trying to be a smart(ies) arse 😀

Keep that up and you'll be joining Crunchie on my ignore list.

[Hibrandenburg]

Correct. He's a proper nougat.

Oi, watch it Yorkie.

[One Day Soon]

Depends on the opinions and how they are voiced.

No it doesn't.

[One Day Soon]

Can I get a Venn diagram of who agrees with CapitalGreen, who agrees with superfurryhibby, and those who aren’t sure why they’re arguing?

I'm not not in the Superfurryhibby section...

[One Day Soon]

I've looked at this poll several times today now and I'd like to vote in it but I also can't quite be arsed. Which is also the kind of ambivalence I'm feeling about Jack Ross' Hibs right now.

[Onion]

:agree: The players have a lot to answer for and the ones who are still with us next season have a lot of making up to do to the fans for putting in such a pathetic display in a cup final.

Difficulty is seeing what they could do ? Would 3rd place and a couple of wins against Hearts be enough ? Getting to next year's SC Final, putting in a plucky performance against say Celtic be enough ? Think not. Progression. to the later stages of the Europe League or beating Sevco or Hearts 5-0 in the SCF might help a little :cb

[Allez Hibs]

But we failed to win the big games when it mattered. Knocked out the Scottish Cup by Hearts and only taking 2 points from our final 3 league games to throw away an excellent chance at finishing third. For all the good football we played we achieved less than this season and then went on a downward spiral for 18 months until the appointment of Jack Ross.

We slaughtered a very good Celtic side to keep 2nd alive.

[Allez Hibs]

Let’s see how we are getting on around October/November. We will have played our European games, an Edinburgh Derby and League Cup games by then.

Knocked out of Europe in the early qualifying rounds, a loss in the Edinburgh Derby and knocked out of the League Cup, I think a lot more people will lose patience.

Agree with this. Very sensible post 👍

[Allez Hibs]

Or 85% saying they don’t want him sacked.

It's 60/40 in his favour.

[Smartie]

I've taken a bit of time to think about my answer and gone firmly for "I don't want him sacked".

The football hasn't always been great, I'm concerned about the frequency of poor big game performances and I thought almost everything about the game at the weekend was wrong but in all honesty it still falls quite a bit short of wanting him sacked.

In general I don't want managers sacked. Ever. It's always too simple a demand, too simple a solution and it rarely fixes whatever problems may exist.

I want Jack Ross to stay and to do what he said what he'd done before the weekend - learn.

His transfer business tends to be good and a few players showed true colours at the weekend and it's time to trust him to sort it out.

I'll reserve the right to bump my gums endlessly, criticise what I like, but ultimately I'd rather he was manager of the club than anyone else.

[CapitalGreen]

It's 60/40 in his favour.

203 say they don’t want him sacked while only 34 say the do.

That’s 86/14 in his favour.

[Peevemor]

No it doesn't.Oh, OK then.

[Sir David Gray]

Difficulty is seeing what they could do ? Would 3rd place and a couple of wins against Hearts be enough ? Getting to next year's SC Final, putting in a plucky performance against say Celtic be enough ? Think not. Progression. to the later stages of the Europe League or beating Sevco or Hearts 5-0 in the SCF might help a little :cb

At least 3 wins against Hearts, at least 1 win v Rangers and/or Celtic, retaining 3rd in the league, making a decent attempt at qualifying for the group stages of the Europa Conference League and, depending on the draw, get back to Hampden in both domestic cups and if we avoid Rangers or Celtic like we did this year then go on and win at least one of them.

I realise the one about Europe is subjective but if we fail to make the group stages, I'd like the aggregate score to be close.

[flash]

At least 3 wins against Hearts, at least 1 win v Rangers and/or Celtic, retaining 3rd in the league, making a decent attempt at qualifying for the group stages of the Europa Conference League and, depending on the draw, get back to Hampden in both domestic cups and if we avoid Rangers or Celtic like we did this year then go on and win at least one of them.

I realise the one about Europe is subjective but if we fail to make the group stages, I'd like the aggregate score to be close.
So basically one of the best seasons in the history of the club.

[Crunchie]

:agree: The players have a lot to answer for and the ones who are still with us next season have a lot of making up to do to the fans for putting in such a pathetic display in a cup final.

👍

[Brightside]

38% wouldn’t be bothered if he left. That’s staggering. We maybe need a a season with Terry again and get the crowds down to 7/8000.

[Sir David Gray]

So basically one of the best seasons in the history of the club.

I don't think any of that is unreasonable to be honest.

1- I don't think 3 wins against Hearts is unreasonable considering they've just been promoted. Winning both games at Easter Road and winning one at Tynecastle shouldn't be out of reach for any Hibs team. You can bet there will be discussions within the Hearts camp that at least 3 wins in the derby must be secured next season, why shouldn't we do the same?

2 - Wins against Rangers and Celtic aren't easy but if we're going to finish 3rd again then I don't see why 1 win out of 8 matches should be out of reach.

3 - We finished 3rd this season, finishing there again next season will undoubtedly be a target which is laid down to the players by the management team.

4 - I recognise the cup draws are a bit of a lottery and it won't be easy to negotiate 3 rounds and reach the group stage of Europe but I think we need to make a good fist of it. We need to manage to come through any ties against teams that have a much lower co-efficiency than us, if we get drawn against a team that's fairly level with us or above us in the rankings then if we don't beat them then at least make the aggregate score respectable, particularly in the home leg.

5 - See point 4 about a lottery. However in the League Cup we will receive a bye into the knockout stages and are guaranteed to be seeded in the last 16 so we can't play Rangers, Celtic or indeed Aberdeen (or St Johnstone!!) until at least the quarter finals. We need to be making at least the quarter finals of the League Cup, which is then just one round away from reaching Hampden. If we avoid Rangers or Celtic like we did this season then we should be looking to go all the way.

The Scottish Cup is a bit more of a lottery with the lack of any seedings but again I think we should be looking to go all the way if we can avoid Rangers and Celtic.

It may seem like a tough ask but I think each of those targets are achievable for a club that should be looking to establish itself as the third biggest in Scotland.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I don't think any of that is unreasonable to be honest.

1- I don't think 3 wins against Hearts is unreasonable considering they've just been promoted. Winning both games at Easter Road and winning one at Tynecastle shouldn't be out of reach for any Hibs team. You can bet there will be discussions within the Hearts camp that at least 3 wins in the derby must be secured next season, why shouldn't we do the same?

2 - Wins against Rangers and Celtic aren't easy but if we're going to finish 3rd again then I don't see why 1 win out of 8 matches should be out of reach.

3 - We finished 3rd this season, finishing there again next season will undoubtedly be a target which is laid down to the players by the management team.

4 - I recognise the cup draws are a bit of a lottery and it won't be easy to negotiate 3 rounds and reach the group stage of Europe but I think we need to make a good fist of it. We need to manage to come through any ties against teams that have a much lower co-efficiency than us, if we get drawn against a team that's fairly level with us or above us in the rankings then if we don't beat them then at least make the aggregate score respectable, particularly in the home leg.

5 - See point 4 about a lottery. However in the League Cup we will receive a bye into the knockout stages and are guaranteed to be seeded in the last 16 so we can't play Rangers, Celtic or indeed Aberdeen (or St Johnstone!!) until at least the quarter finals. We need to be making at least the quarter finals of the League Cup, which is then just one round away from reaching Hampden. If we avoid Rangers or Celtic like we did this season then we should be looking to go all the way.

The Scottish Cup is a bit more of a lottery with the lack of any seedings but again I think we should be looking to go all the way if we can avoid Rangers and Celtic.

It may seem like a tough ask but I think each of those targets are achievable for a club that should be looking to establish itself as the third biggest in Scotland.

I’d rather wait and set the goals based on what’s happened. It would be an amazing season if what you’re targeting comes off though.

[The Modfather]

I think this poll has been in useful in gauging where the support (or Hibs.net anyway) is and put to bed a few myths.

It’s a small minority that want Ross sacked. They might be very vocal, but a minority nonetheless. I think this poll disproves that there’s a “Ross out brigade” just waiting for our next defeat. There are definitely posters like that and who are waiting for the next defeat but far too much is made of that smallgroup. Which in turn makes it seem like it’s far more widespread than it is. I also think a factor in that is how some people view support as binary, you’re either for Ross or against him with no nuances. With those who haven’t taken to Ross, like myself, or still not convinced by him, like myself, but don’t want him sacked, again like myself, automatically lumped into the “Ross Out brigade” and added to those just waiting for the next defeat.

The majority don’t believe he should be sacked, there’s then different levels of confidence in Ross within that majority.

[matty_f]

I’d rather wait and set the goals based on what’s happened. It would be an amazing season if what you’re targeting comes off though.

That’s fair, all very well saying that we want to get to the latter stages of the cup (or win one) and that’s fine if we get an easy draw when it’s only wee teams and bottom six Premiership teams because the ties are winnable, but if we get Rangers or Celtic in an early round we should be able to slide that target down based on what’s happened.

Similarly, if the league isn’t the worst one anyone can remember and no team goes a lot of matches without scoring, we might want to change third to fourth or fifth because the league is so tough.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I think the league will be a tougher one next season. Hearts and Dundee are two difficult places to go, especially Tynecastle for us.

[calumhibee1]

I think this poll has been in useful in gauging where the support (or Hibs.net anyway) is and put to bed a few myths.

It’s a small minority that want Ross sacked. They might be very vocal, but a minority nonetheless. I think this poll disproves that there’s a “Ross out brigade” just waiting for our next defeat. There are definitely posters like that and who are waiting for the next defeat but far too much is made of that smallgroup. Which in turn makes it seem like it’s far more widespread than it is. I also think a factor in that is how some people view support as binary, you’re either for Ross or against him with no nuances. With those who haven’t taken to Ross, like myself, or still not convinced by him, like myself, but don’t want him sacked, again like myself, automatically lumped into the “Ross Out brigade” and added to those just waiting for the next defeat.

The majority don’t believe he should be sacked, there’s then different levels of confidence in Ross within that majority.

To be fair, I’m actually surprised there’s 12% actively want him sacked. I wouldn’t have said it feels like nearly as many as 1 in 8 people are actively wanting him sacked based on posts. I’m not surprised by the don’t want him sacked but couldn’t care less if he less though.

[jeffers]

That’s fair, all very well saying that we want to get to the latter stages of the cup (or win one) and that’s fine if we get an easy draw when it’s only wee teams and bottom six Premiership teams because the ties are winnable, but if we get Rangers or Celtic in an early round we should be able to slide that target down based on what’s happened.

Similarly, if the league isn’t the worst one anyone can remember and no team goes a lot of matches without scoring, we might want to change third to fourth or fifth because the league is so tough.

Isn’t that exactly what I suggested yesterday and you responded with your arsey post ?

[flash]

To be fair, I’m actually surprised there’s 12% actively want him sacked. I wouldn’t have said it feels like nearly as many as 1 in 8 people are actively wanting him sacked based on posts. I’m not surprised by the don’t want him sacked but couldn’t care less if he less though.

No doubt a few outsiders amongst that figure.

[Onion]

I think the league will be a tougher one next season. Hearts and Dundee are two difficult places to go, especially Tynecastle for us.

:agree: Fans being back, Hearts and a reinvented Aberdeen will all be added hurdles in our effort for 3rd place. If JR manages to steer us to 3rd next season it will easily trump this season's effort.

[calumhibee1]

No doubt a few outsiders amongst that figure.

Possibly. Not sure how many there is on here to be fair, it’s not something I feel there’s much of from an actual posting point of view.

[flash]

Possibly. Not sure how many there is on here to be fair, it’s not something I feel there’s much of from an actual posting point of view.

Nah I agree. We are all perfectly capable of bickering like fishwives without any outside interference.:greengrin

[superfurryhibby]

No doubt a few outsiders amongst that figure.

Probably voting for the Ross must stay option.

[flash]

Probably voting for the Ross must stay option.

Exactly. Bloody interlopers.

[calumhibee1]

Nah I agree. We are all perfectly capable of bickering like fishwives without any outside interference.:greengrin

Never a truer word spoken :greengrin

[matty_f]

Isn’t that exactly what I suggested yesterday and you responded with your arsey post ?

The post isn’t serious. It’s just there because some folk were talking down getting to a final as a start of season goal because of who we played to get there, so the target changed to winning. And third didn’t really count because the league was so bad.

All I’m saying is when we’re assessing the performance next season we need to apply the same logic and say it’s fine if we go out in the third round to Rangers and finish fifth if the league is really hard.

Or, more reasonably, you forget that part and set goals at the start of the season and work towards them, and assess whether or not you’ve achieved them at the end of the season. You might stretch them as you go, but those are the targets that should be clear and measured against.

So, when you finish third, reach semi finals and finals, you don’t look at the opposition and call everyone failures and say third doesn’t really Count because of some arbitrary assessment that the league was rubbish, you can say we had a successful season confident that you reached the goals (pre-stretch) that you agreed at the start of the season.

[Sir David Gray]

I’d rather wait and set the goals based on what’s happened. It would be an amazing season if what you’re targeting comes off though.

It would be a great season but I really hope it's those kind of targets which are being spoken about internally.

Finishing less than 4th should be deemed not good enough by everyone within the club, picking up 2 points out of 9 or 12 v Hearts should not be deemed good enough, being knocked out of two cups without scoring a goal v St Johnstone should not be deemed good enough, although clearly if we draw Rangers and Celtic in both cups before we get to Hampden then I wouldn't hold it against the players or the manager if we're knocked out.

I think we should also be looking to avoid being knocked out of Europe at the first time of asking by the 3rd placed team in the Faroe Islands Premier League, although again if we get drawn against a team from a tougher league then I agree that we need to reevaluate things.

The only one that I might say should be dropped is the demand to win a game against Rangers or Celtic. Clearly Rangers have just gone through the entire league season undefeated and Celtic will probably strengthen ahead of next season but I would still like to think that we could win at least once out of eight matches against the pair of them.

[Smartie]

I don't think any of that is unreasonable to be honest.

1- I don't think 3 wins against Hearts is unreasonable considering they've just been promoted. Winning both games at Easter Road and winning one at Tynecastle shouldn't be out of reach for any Hibs team. You can bet there will be discussions within the Hearts camp that at least 3 wins in the derby must be secured next season, why shouldn't we do the same?

2 - Wins against Rangers and Celtic aren't easy but if we're going to finish 3rd again then I don't see why 1 win out of 8 matches should be out of reach.

3 - We finished 3rd this season, finishing there again next season will undoubtedly be a target which is laid down to the players by the management team.

4 - I recognise the cup draws are a bit of a lottery and it won't be easy to negotiate 3 rounds and reach the group stage of Europe but I think we need to make a good fist of it. We need to manage to come through any ties against teams that have a much lower co-efficiency than us, if we get drawn against a team that's fairly level with us or above us in the rankings then if we don't beat them then at least make the aggregate score respectable, particularly in the home leg.

5 - See point 4 about a lottery. However in the League Cup we will receive a bye into the knockout stages and are guaranteed to be seeded in the last 16 so we can't play Rangers, Celtic or indeed Aberdeen (or St Johnstone!!) until at least the quarter finals. We need to be making at least the quarter finals of the League Cup, which is then just one round away from reaching Hampden. If we avoid Rangers or Celtic like we did this season then we should be looking to go all the way.

The Scottish Cup is a bit more of a lottery with the lack of any seedings but again I think we should be looking to go all the way if we can avoid Rangers and Celtic.

It may seem like a tough ask but I think each of those targets are achievable for a club that should be looking to establish itself as the third biggest in Scotland.

FWIW I think this is exactly what an ambitious yet non-delusional football club should be looking to achieve and for exactly the reasons you mention.

Great post imo.

[Allez Hibs]

I’m not surprised by the don’t want him sacked but couldn’t care less if he less though.

Yeah I think that's the key point in all of this, the majority don't want him sacked but wouldn't be bothered if another club took him.

[Allez Hibs]

I don't think any of that is unreasonable to be honest.

1- I don't think 3 wins against Hearts is unreasonable considering they've just been promoted. Winning both games at Easter Road and winning one at Tynecastle shouldn't be out of reach for any Hibs team. You can bet there will be discussions within the Hearts camp that at least 3 wins in the derby must be secured next season, why shouldn't we do the same?

2 - Wins against Rangers and Celtic aren't easy but if we're going to finish 3rd again then I don't see why 1 win out of 8 matches should be out of reach.

3 - We finished 3rd this season, finishing there again next season will undoubtedly be a target which is laid down to the players by the management team.

4 - I recognise the cup draws are a bit of a lottery and it won't be easy to negotiate 3 rounds and reach the group stage of Europe but I think we need to make a good fist of it. We need to manage to come through any ties against teams that have a much lower co-efficiency than us, if we get drawn against a team that's fairly level with us or above us in the rankings then if we don't beat them then at least make the aggregate score respectable, particularly in the home leg.

5 - See point 4 about a lottery. However in the League Cup we will receive a bye into the knockout stages and are guaranteed to be seeded in the last 16 so we can't play Rangers, Celtic or indeed Aberdeen (or St Johnstone!!) until at least the quarter finals. We need to be making at least the quarter finals of the League Cup, which is then just one round away from reaching Hampden. If we avoid Rangers or Celtic like we did this season then we should be looking to go all the way.

The Scottish Cup is a bit more of a lottery with the lack of any seedings but again I think we should be looking to go all the way if we can avoid Rangers and Celtic.

It may seem like a tough ask but I think each of those targets are achievable for a club that should be looking to establish itself as the third biggest in Scotland.

I'd say that's fair.

Hibs are massive in a Scottish football context. History, fan base, season ticket holders, stadium, infrastructure and now owner. We all just want Hibs to establish itself as the clear 3rd force and who knows what might happen in the future. Saturday has happened, let's look forward.

[calumhibee1]

FWIW I think this is exactly what an ambitious yet non-delusional football club should be looking to achieve and for exactly the reasons you mention.

Great post imo.

:agree:

It’s bang on where we should be aiming.

[jeffers]

The post isn’t serious. It’s just there because some folk were talking down getting to a final as a start of season goal because of who we played to get there, so the target changed to winning. And third didn’t really count because the league was so bad.

All I’m saying is when we’re assessing the performance next season we need to apply the same logic and say it’s fine if we go out in the third round to Rangers and finish fifth if the league is really hard.

Or, more reasonably, you forget that part and set goals at the start of the season and work towards them, and assess whether or not you’ve achieved them at the end of the season. You might stretch them as you go, but those are the targets that should be clear and measured against.

So, when you finish third, reach semi finals and finals, you don’t look at the opposition and call everyone failures and say third doesn’t really Count because of some arbitrary assessment that the league was rubbish, you can say we had a successful season confident that you reached the goals (pre-stretch) that you agreed at the start of the season.

Setting goals at the start of the season should of course be done, but I see no harm in revising these during the season, whether that be lowering or raising them, it would depend on the circumstances. I maintain you finish in the league where you deserve to finish, for that Jack Ross deserves credit. However there are circumstances that have contributed to it - no Hearts and a much poorer Aberdeen. Neither of those points can be debated. Even if Hearts had been pish the likelihood is they’d still have taken some points off us. Add in the fact Ross was backed financially when many other managers weren’t.

I also think it’s fair to question just how great an achievement the progression in the cups were given the opposition. I know I’ve done it when Hearts have had piss easy draws, why wouldn’t I do it when we have ? The fact is we did have easy draws, two cups where neither of the OF reached the semis. Given that revising our targets from making the semis to actually winning one of the cups seems reasonable to me. I’d be surprised if internally the club hadn’t done the same.

I do agree that we must apply that same logic next season if the teams around us improve or we draw the Huns away in a cup, it’s a perfectly reasonable way to assess the situation IMO.

[matty_f]

Setting goals at the start of the season should of course be done, but I see no harm in revising these during the season, whether that be lowering or raising them, it would depend on the circumstances. I maintain you finish in the league where you deserve to finish, for that Jack Ross deserves credit. However there are circumstances that have contributed to it - no Hearts and a much poorer Aberdeen. Neither of those points can be debated. Even if Hearts had been pish the likelihood is they’d still have taken some points off us. Add in the fact Ross was backed financially when many other managers weren’t.

I also think it’s fair to question just how great an achievement the progression in the cups were given the opposition. I know I’ve done it when Hearts have had piss easy draws, why wouldn’t I do it when we have ? The fact is we did have easy draws, two cups where neither of the OF reached the semis. Given that revising our targets from making the semis to actually winning one of the cups seems reasonable to me. I’d be surprised if internally the club hadn’t done the same.

I do agree that we must apply that same logic next season if the teams around us improve or we draw the Huns away in a cup, it’s a perfectly reasonable way to assess the situation IMO.

That’s great, hopefully folk renege posts like this when they’re hounding Jack Ross if we’re not winning a cup or sitting third next season.

In fact, hopefully we never find out because we are winning cups and sitting third.

[jeffers]

That’s great, hopefully folk renege posts like this when they’re hounding Jack Ross if we’re not winning a cup or sitting third next season.

In fact, hopefully we never find out because we are winning cups and sitting third.

I can only speak for myself on that. I will however qualify that by saying I can accept losing games, but struggle if the application isn’t there as was the case on Saturday. Otherwise I stand by my post.

Absolutely.

[superfurryhibby]

Setting goals at the start of the season should of course be done, but I see no harm in revising these during the season, whether that be lowering or raising them, it would depend on the circumstances. I maintain you finish in the league where you deserve to finish, for that Jack Ross deserves credit. However there are circumstances that have contributed to it - no Hearts and a much poorer Aberdeen. Neither of those points can be debated. Even if Hearts had been pish the likelihood is they’d still have taken some points off us. Add in the fact Ross was backed financially when many other managers weren’t.

I also think it’s fair to question just how great an achievement the progression in the cups were given the opposition. I know I’ve done it when Hearts have had piss easy draws, why wouldn’t I do it when we have ? The fact is we did have easy draws, two cups where neither of the OF reached the semis. Given that revising our targets from making the semis to actually winning one of the cups seems reasonable to me. I’d be surprised if internally the club hadn’t done the same.

I do agree that we must apply that same logic next season if the teams around us improve or we draw the Huns away in a cup, it’s a perfectly reasonable way to assess the situation IMO.

You're right goals are relative to the changing circumstances. They're sitting alongside expectations and shouldn't be written in stone. Most of us are realistic enough to know that Hibs aren't going to win the League. Few would expect us to beat the Old Firm, in the League or in cup games. However, we live in hope and it sometime happens.

Maybe relative success also influences expectations too. If the 3rd place team is playing a side many points below us in a cup final, there is heightened expectation. In another scenario we play a team without the resources or history of our club, but one whose league place says they are better, still we have a sense that we should be beating them (like Livi in 2004 or Ross County).

With regard to the calibre of opposition faced whilst progressing in cups. That doesn't really matter too much to me. I suppose when we have knocked out one or both of the Old Firm, maybe that has given hope that we can see it through all the way, like v Sheep in 1985-86 or the aforementioned Livi final. Once we reach the final, all that matters is winning, not that we might have had a favourable passage en-route.

[CapitalGreen]

Yeah I think that's the key point in all of this, the majority don't want him sacked but wouldn't be bothered if another club took him.

Only 25% of people voted that they don’t want him sacked and wouldn’t be bothered if he left. The majority of people (~62%) don’t want him sacked and would be bothered if he left.

[blackpoolhibs]

Anyone else remember the good old days, when a good season was a European finish and a good cup run?

Now we have targets and big games, must beat teams who are in turmoil, and the league is weak, i've no idea now how well we've done with all these new rules.

I will just judge the team and the manager as i've always done.

[bigwheel]

Anyone else remember the good old days, when a good season was a European finish and a good cup run?

Now we have targets and big games, must beat teams who are in turmoil, and the league is weak, i've no idea now how well we've done with all these new rules.

I will just judge the team and the manager as i've always done.

Exactly ...if anyone had offered us last season before it started. We’d have bitten their hand off for it .

Sure we are rightly gutted by the performance in the final - it is a kick in the balls ..but overall that is a much better than season than we usually have . Definite progress ...

[superfurryhibby]

Only 25% of people voted that they don’t want him sacked and wouldn’t be bothered if he left. The majority of people (~62%) don’t want him sacked and would be bothered if he left.

:greengrin


You're persistent, but I haven't got a clue what you're actually saying.

The poll is there for us all to see. I'm not sure your statistical analysis skills are really shedding any new light on it.

[jeffers]

Exactly ...if anyone had offered us last season before it started. We’d have bitten their hand off for it .

Sure we are rightly gutted by the performance in the final - it is a kick in the balls ..but overall that is a much better than season than we usually have . Definite progress ...

If you read the placings purely on paper absolutely we would have. But when you delve into I’m not so sure we would. Personally I wish we’d never got to the final if I’d known we’d put in the performance we did.

Bh makes a valid point, but I believe things have moved on from there. As fans, as a club and with our new owner our targets are higher and expectations too. And if you choose to just judge the team and manager what conclusion do you draw from 3 of our 4 trips to Hampden this season ?

[Peevemor]

:greengrin


You're persistent, but I haven't got a clue what you're actually saying.

The poll is there for us all to see. I'm not sure your statistical analysis skills are really shedding any new light on it.

He's correcting another poster who's misinterpreted the poll results.

[superfurryhibby]

He's correcting another poster who's misinterpreted the poll results.

Stop trolling.

[Peevemor]

Stop trolling.

Could you explain how that could possibly be taken as trolling?

And are you going to jump on my back every time I post?

[superfurryhibby]

Could you explain how that could possibly be taken as trolling?

And are you going to jump on my back every time I post?

Stop trolling

[Peevemor]

Stop trolling

I'd like you to explain how I was trolling.

[Peevemor]

Oft, pot kettle 👀

What are you on about?

[sleeping giant]

Oft, pot kettle 👀

WTF?
He was correctly correcting an incorrect take on the poll results.

[HNA12]

Can we do this without the petty bickering, calling each other trolls etc. We don’t want to be spending our time deleting stuff because grown adults can’t discuss things respectfully.
Thanks.

[matty_f]

If you read the placings purely on paper absolutely we would have. But when you delve into I’m not so sure we would. Personally I wish we’d never got to the final if I’d known we’d put in the performance we did.

Bh makes a valid point, but I believe things have moved on from there. As fans, as a club and with our new owner our targets are higher and expectations too. And if you choose to just judge the team and manager what conclusion do you draw from 3 of our 4 trips to Hampden this season ?

Which bit wouldn’t you have taken?

League - 3rd place.

Scottish Cup Final - lost to St Johnstone (take/not take)?
Semi final - Dundee United (win) take or not take?
1/4 final - Motherwell (win) take or not take?
Stranraer/QotS - win both, take or not take?

League Cup
Semi final - lost to St Johnstone (take or not take?)
1/4 final - Alloa (win) take or not take
Dundee - win, take or not take?

Where’s the cut off that losing would have been ok? If we’re saying we would only accept getting to the final as being good if we win, which of the earlier rounds could we have lost in that would have been better?