Hanlon and Stevenson

[Crunchie]

Nothing incredible about it. You want them moved on because of failures.Why don't you want them to stay because of their many successes?

I'm saying your mission to convince the world that Hanlon and Stevenson must go is a failure.
The world? he's expressing a valid opinion and backing them up, you're countering with your own arguments.
One thing I can safely say is they have both been involved in way more failures than successes and you can try and put any spin on it you like, that is a fact.
If there was a poll on having them replaced I would be surprised if it wasn't close to 50/50 on them both.

[matty_f]

The world? he's expressing a valid opinion and backing them up, you're countering with your own arguments.
One thing I can safely say is they have both been involved in way more failures than successes and you can try and put any spin on it you like, that is a fact.
If there was a poll on having them replaced I would be surprised if it wasn't close to 50/50 on them both.
Being involved in far more failures than successes applies to most footballers in the world. Most footballers don’t win cups and medals at all.

[Crunchie]

Being involved in far more failures than successes applies to most footballers in the world. Most footballers don’t win cups and medals at all.
Very true, and fewer still stay at 1 club for as long as a result.

[matty_f]

Very true, and fewer still stay at 1 club for as long as a result.

Very few are good enough to stay at a club our size for so long. Managers don’t re-sign players out of niceness, their jobs depend on these guys and manager after manager have not only played them, but extended their contracts.

[Jones28]

Very few are good enough to stay at a club our size for so long. Managers don’t re-sign players out of niceness, their jobs depend on these guys and manager after manager have not only played them, but extended their contracts.

I actually want one the anti-Hanlon/Stevenson mob to address this point directly. Why have they, time after time, had contracts renewed? Sentiment? Willingness to stay? Convenience for the club and management?

[Allez Hibs]

One thing I can safely say is they have both been involved in way more failures than successes and you can try and put any spin on it you like, that is a fact.
Agreed.

I also said this and got slaughtered for it. Hanlon and Lewy were in the team that got relegated and then took 3 seasons to get out the Championship.

[Jones28]

Agreed.

I also said this and got slaughtered for it. Hanlon and Lewy were in the team that got relegated and then took 3 seasons to get out the Championship.

Hanlon wasnt.

[Crunchie]

[/B]

I actually want one the anti-Hanlon/Stevenson mob to address this point directly. Why have they, time after time, had contracts renewed? Sentiment? Willingness to stay? Convenience for the club and management?
I'm a member of the HSF I joined solely in recognition of the service both have given to our club. I think their time is up to be a first team pick, I'd have them both as back up until their contracts are up. Would you like my badge?

[MWHIBBIES]

The world? he's expressing a valid opinion and backing them up, you're countering with your own arguments.
One thing I can safely say is they have both been involved in way more failures than successes and you can try and put any spin on it you like, that is a fact.
If there was a poll on having them replaced I would be surprised if it wasn't close to 50/50 on them both.

Make a poll then, it wouldn't be close to 50/50 IMO

He is just listing their failures and saying we should get rid.

I listed the failures of dozens of world class players in comparison the other day, and he didn't reply.

[Jones28]

I'm a member of the HSF I joined solely in recognition of the service both have given to our club. I think their time is up to be a first team pick, I'd have them both as back up until their contracts are up. Would you like my badge?

Lovely. Still didn't answer the question though.


Do you get badges? I might join too.

[Crunchie]

Lovely. Still didn't answer the question though.


Do you get badges? I might join too.
And a certificate, and I don't think you're able to join now :greengrin Sorry I missed your question.

[MWHIBBIES]

I'm a member of the HSF I joined solely in recognition of the service both have given to our club. I think their time is up to be a first team pick, I'd have them both as back up until their contracts are up. Would you like my badge?

If we had signed Hanlon this season, and he performed as he did, would you still want rid?

And if so, do you also want rid of the other players who performed worse than him last season?

[bigwheel]

Agreed.

I also said this and got slaughtered for it. Hanlon and Lewy were in the team that got relegated and then took 3 seasons to get out the Championship.


The lack of balance in these Hanlon and Stevenson are rubbish posts are as poor as I’ve seen on this forum.

They are neither brilliant or murder. Both have more than earned their status as good Hibs players . 100s of games between them.

Football is a team game. Posts trying to label two players with the overall outcomes of our team are bizarre or with an agenda ...either way - continuing to make the same points , with a slightly different nuance time and time again - is the worst types of post on this forum. Makes it almost unreadable

[MWHIBBIES]

Agreed.

I also said this and got slaughtered for it. Hanlon and Lewy were in the team that got relegated and then took 3 seasons to get out the Championship.

McGinn took 2 seasons to get up.

Andrew Shinnie got us promoted first time.

Midfield sorted.

[Peevemor]

I can't believe that Dave Beaumont hasn't been mentioned yet.

[Just Alf]

The lack of balance in these Hanlon and Stevenson are rubbish posts are as poor as I’ve seen on this forum.

They are neither brilliant or murder. Both have more than earned their status as good Hibs players . 100s of games between them.

Football is a team game. Posts trying to label two players with the overall outcomes of our team are bizarre or with an agenda ...either way - continuing to make the same points , with a slightly different nuance time and time again - is the worst types of post on this forum. Makes it almost unreadable

indeed, almost trolling you could say.

[Oscar T Grouch]

The lack of balance in these Hanlon and Stevenson are rubbish posts are as poor as I’ve seen on this forum.

They are neither brilliant or murder. Both have more than earned their status as good Hibs players . 100s of games between them.

Football is a team game. Posts trying to label two players with the overall outcomes of our team are bizarre or with an agenda ...either way - continuing to make the same points , with a slightly different nuance time and time again - is the worst types of post on this forum. Makes it almost unreadable

Just under 1000 between them which is extraordinary in the post bosman era

[superfurryhibby]

Imagine being a Hibs fan, watch them bottle two Semi Finals & a Final in the same season and not question the club.

So much for your wee stink as the voice of reason. I guess that was a bit boring so you resorted to type?

I don’t think Stevenson started any of the semi finals, including the one we won.

Either way, plenty people have questioned the club, but just not about the two players you mention.

[Jones28]

And a certificate, and I don't think you're able to join now :greengrin Sorry I missed your question.

If they as poor as some are making out why have they continually had contracts renewed by different managers over a very long period of time?

[Allez Hibs]

So much for your wee stink as the voice of reason. I guess that was a bit boring so you resorted to type?

I don’t think Stevenson started any of the semi finals, including the one we won.

Either way, plenty people have questioned the club, but just not about the two players you mention.

Suggest you read the point I was making.

You've had plenty to say since Saturday yourself.

Saying no more as clearly not allowed to question Hanlon or Stevenson.

[h1bs4life]

[/B]

I actually want one the anti-Hanlon/Stevenson mob to address this point directly. Why have they, time after time, had contracts renewed? Sentiment? Willingness to stay? Convenience for the club and management?


The managers judgement on the players they have bought or re signed has resulted in them loosing there jobs whether it be sacked, mutually consented or leave . With another one coming in and doing the same.
John Collins and Alan Stubbs are the only two that have won something , Collins was mutually consented and Stubbs thought he had moved on to better things.
In that time there has been plenty of visits to Hampden where we have bottled it with various other managers and players.
Jack Ross was probably the biggest bottle job of the lot with the chances we had so would think it is right that there are questions asked of the manager and his squad.
Looking at the squad there is a few that have little experience of Hampden then you look at the most experienced and have a look at there record.
They are football players like thousands of others that have had there time at a club time to move on and get a club elsewhere , it happens at clubs all over so not sure why the anger that it should happen here .

Can you answer why Hanlon was not part of the squad that got relegated.

[Jones28]

Suggest you read the point I was making.

You've had plenty to say since Saturday yourself.

Saying no more as clearly not allowed to question Hanlon or Stevenson.

Ahh that old chestnut. I don't see anyone stopping you talking, simply arguing against it.

[superfurryhibby]

Suggest you read the point I was making.

You've had plenty to say since Saturday yourself.

Saying no more as clearly not allowed to question Hanlon or Stevenson.

Aye, I’ve said plenty, but I’m not sooking up to some posters one minute, then dropping a bomb and scarpering the next.

You can question all you want, but blaming Stevenson is bizarre given he didn’t really feature much over the season. Hanlon, for me, was the most consistent defender in the side.

My ranting was more about the tactical failings of our manager in the biggest game we can play in, the inability to change things when it was wasn’t working, the lack of passion in the side, his stubbornness and inflexibility. The resorting to hoofball as a plan B. I don’t recall once singling out individual players.

[Allez Hibs]

Aye, I’ve said plenty, but I’m not sooking up to some posters one minute, then dropping a bomb and scarpering the next.

You can question all you want, but blaming Stevenson is bizarre given he didn’t really feature much over the season. Hanlon, for me, was the most consistent defender in the side.

My ranting was more about the tactical failings of our manager in the biggest game we can play in, the inability to change things when it was wasn’t working, the lack of passion in the side, his stubbornness and inflexibility. The resorting to hoofball as a plan B. I don’t recall once singling out individual players.

Again, you need to read my posts on this thread properly.

Where have I even mentioned Stevenson?

[h1bs4life]

Make a poll then, it wouldn't be close to 50/50 IMO

He is just listing their failures and saying we should get rid.

I listed the failures of dozens of world class players in comparison the other day, and he didn't reply.


Who is listing failures that is the whole clubs records during there time here. I have no idea what other players failing has to do with Hibs.
Its like the old firm fans , they sing bad songs I know but look over they sing more bad songs.
Nothing at all to do with Hibs.
Would you like to answer if listing the clubs records is only failures is the club a failure ?

[Malthibby]

They are heroes & always will be; at the moment I'm happier with Hanlon at CB than Porteous & I think Doig needs a rest so Stevenson still has an important role to fill.
Can't imagine Hibs without them even if it has to happen eventually but I do believe Hanlon needs someone beside him to take charge of things, I think McGregor showed
that in the games running up to the final..I'd nick a couple of the Saints CBs if we could get them.
GG

[Jones28]

The managers judgement on the players they have bought or re signed has resulted in them loosing there jobs whether it be sacked, mutually consented or leave . With another one coming in and doing the same.
John Collins and Alan Stubbs are the only two that have won something , Collins was mutually consented and Stubbs thought he had moved on to better things.
In that time there has been plenty of visits to Hampden where we have bottled it with various other managers and players.
Jack Ross was probably the biggest bottle job of the lot with the chances we had so would think it is right that there are questions asked of the manager and his squad.
Looking at the squad there is a few that have little experience of Hampden then you look at the most experienced and have a look at there record.
They are football players like thousands of others that have had there time at a club time to move on and get a club elsewhere , it happens at clubs all over so not sure why the anger that it should happen here .

Can you answer why Hanlon was not part of the squad that got relegated.

He was injured.

Undoubtedly questions need asked and answered, but why are 2 players being singled out? 2 players, one of whom didn't start and the other did nothing wrong. :confused:

There were 6 or 7 other players that need to answer for that performance: Doig, McGinn, Doidge, Nisbet, Boyle, Irvine, Newall. Those 2 were the least of our issues.

[ElginHibbie]

Can you answer why Hanlon was not part of the squad that got relegated.

Before Hanlon got injured our form was ok, not great but nothing like relegation form. After Hanlon got injured we only picked up 1 point in the remaining 8 games of the season and then lost the playoffs due to a last minute goal

Not everyone will agree and we can't know for sure, but I think if Hanlon hadn't gotten injured (or even if Butcher had player McPake once he was fit) we would have survived

[h1bs4life]

He was injured.

Undoubtedly questions need asked and answered, but why are 2 players being singled out? 2 players, one of whom didn't start and the other did nothing wrong. :confused:

There were 6 or 7 other players that need to answer for that performance: Doig, McGinn, Doidge, Nisbet, Boyle, Irvine, Newall. Those 2 were the least of our issues.

How long was Hanlon injured for ( I don't know ) questions are asked of all the players and more so the manager but how many Hampden appearances do the above have , the 2 mentioned are the most experienced and there record is horrendous at Hampden. So people rightly questioning is it time to move them on .
Sentiment is clouding judgement , they have some amount of games between them and both have won cups but that is no reason to keep them every team has to move players on.
I don't get the anger everytime someone mentions Hanlon and Stevenson they have done well out of Hibs and Hibs have had 2 long serving players.

[Allez Hibs]

How long was Hanlon injured for ( I don't know ) questions are asked of all the players and more so the manager but how many Hampden appearances do the above have , the 2 mentioned are the most experienced and there record is horrendous at Hampden. So people rightly questioning is it time to move them on .
Sentiment is clouding judgement , they have some amount of games between them and both have won cups but that is no reason to keep them every team has to move players on.
I don't get the anger everytime someone mentions Hanlon and Stevenson they have done well out of Hibs and Hibs have had 2 long serving players.

Good post.

[Jones28]

How long was Hanlon injured for ( I don't know ) questions are asked of all the players and more so the manager but how many Hampden appearances do the above have , the 2 mentioned are the most experienced and there record is horrendous at Hampden. So people rightly questioning is it time to move them on .
Sentiment is clouding judgement , they have some amount of games between them and both have won cups but that is no reason to keep them every team has to move players on.
I don't get the anger everytime someone mentions Hanlon and Stevenson they have done well out of Hibs and Hibs have had 2 long serving players.

I think the fact they've been here so long means they are the first ones to be singled out when things don't go our way. That is where the judgement is being clouded; you only have to look at the final as an example. Hanlon and Stevenson were the only outfield players who didn't do anything wrong, yet they're being singled out on a 10 page thread.

[scoopyboy]

How long was Hanlon injured for ( I don't know ) questions are asked of all the players and more so the manager but how many Hampden appearances do the above have , the 2 mentioned are the most experienced and there record is horrendous at Hampden. So people rightly questioning is it time to move them on .
Sentiment is clouding judgement , they have some amount of games between them and both have won cups but that is no reason to keep them every team has to move players on.
I don't get the anger everytime someone mentions Hanlon and Stevenson they have done well out of Hibs and Hibs have had 2 long serving players.

Aye right, they have won four Scottish Cup semis each at Hampden. No Hibs players in the history of the club have done that except those two.

The famous five team hardly won a game at Hampden, dinnae tell me those boys were failures because of it.

[h1bs4life]

I think the fact they've been here so long means they are the first ones to be singled out when things don't go our way. That is where the judgement is being clouded; you only have to look at the final as an example. Hanlon and Stevenson were the only outfield players who didn't do anything wrong, yet they're being singled out on a 10 page thread.

Is that your clouded judgement that is saying they were the only outfield players that did no wrong.

[Jones28]

Is that your clouded judgement that is saying they were the only outfield players that did no wrong.

What did they do so wrong that merits this **** show of a thread?

[h1bs4life]

Aye right, they have won four Scottish Cup semis each at Hampden. No Hibs players in the history of the club have done that except those two.

The famous five team hardly won a game at Hampden, dinnae tell me those boys were failures because of it.

The famous five won league titles so would think that outshines 4 semi finals .So we are counting semi finals as success now , dearie me... and that means they should still be here....

[scoopyboy]

The famous five won league titles so would think that outshines 4 semi finals .So we are counting semi finals as success now , dearie me... and that means they should still be here....

Naw, naw, naw.

It was you that mentioned their terrible record at Hampden, you never specified. Now that I've got you trapped on the ropes you have got the very weak response oh it was just semis, pathetic as you don't get to finals without winning semis.

If their (note the spelling) record at Hampden is poor tell me what Hibs players have won more games there.

C'mon. lets be havin ya.

[JimBHibees]

Imagine being a Hibs fan and having nothing better to do than pick a player and point out all the mistakes they've made. FFS man

You do have to wonder and doubt whether they genuinely are Hibs fans to have such a pathological dislike for two of our most loyal servants. Lockdown has a lot to answer for.

[JimBHibees]

What did they do so wrong that merits this **** show of a thread?

They play for Hibs.

[Bangkok Hibby]

What a ****ing borefest! And yes I can ignore it...or read it and comment on it.

[h1bs4life]

Naw, naw, naw.

It was you that mentioned their terrible record at Hampden, you never specified. Now that I've got you trapped on the ropes you have got the very weak response oh it was just semis, pathetic as you don't get to finals without winning semis.

If their (note the spelling) record at Hampden tell me what Hibs players have won more games there.

C'mon. lets be havin ya.

Got me trapped on the ropes deerie me ...picking up spelling mistakes , help I am trapped...
Winning 4 semi finals more than any Hibs player ? how may finals , that is something you get a medal for have they won ? How many have they lost ? more than any other Hibs player ( spell check )
They can add winning 4 semi finals along with there Scottish Cup medals and any player of the year trophy won ( spell check )

[Since90+2]

Naw, naw, naw.

It was you that mentioned their terrible record at Hampden, you never specified. Now that I've got you trapped on the ropes you have got the very weak response oh it was just semis, pathetic as you don't get to finals without winning semis.

If their (note the spelling) record at Hampden tell me what Hibs players have won more games there.

C'mon. lets be havin ya.

Correcting spelling really is terrible patter.

[scoopyboy]

Correcting spelling really is terrible patter.

Agreed

[Jones28]

Got me trapped on the ropes deerie me ...picking up spelling mistakes , help I am trapped...
Winning 4 semi finals more than any Hibs player ? how may finals , that is something you get a medal for have they won ? How many have they lost ? more than any other Hibs player ( spell check )
They can add winning 4 semi finals along with there Scottish Cup medals and any player of the year trophy won ( spell check )

And yet they managed something no other Hibs team has done for 114 years, from the Famous Five to the Golden Generation.

[Allez Hibs]

Correcting spelling really is terrible patter.

100%

[Brightside]

Got me trapped on the ropes deerie me ...picking up spelling mistakes , help I am trapped...
Winning 4 semi finals more than any Hibs player ? how may finals , that is something you get a medal for have they won ? How many have they lost ? more than any other Hibs player ( spell check )
They can add winning 4 semi finals along with there Scottish Cup medals and any player of the year trophy won ( spell check )

You really shouldn't put spaces in the brackets. It makes the comment look even more jamboesque.

[Brightside]

Correcting spelling really is terrible patter.

This thread and anti Hibs player vitriol is horrendous patter.

[scoopyboy]

Got me trapped on the ropes deerie me ...picking up spelling mistakes , help I am trapped...
Winning 4 semi finals more than any Hibs player ? how may finals , that is something you get a medal for have they won ? How many have they lost ? more than any other Hibs player ( spell check )
They can add winning 4 semi finals along with there Scottish Cup medals and any player of the year trophy won ( spell check )

I will concede the spelling pick up is poor patter.

I asked you a question, no answer so I will ask it again. Who has won more Scottish Cup semis than the two you are having an issue with?

Your best effort to date is how many winners medals have they picked up, answer is one. Has any Hibs player won more than that?

The way you are wording it makes winning semi finals a sin.

We are talking Scottish Cup appearances at Hampden so what on earth has player of the year trophies got to do with it?

Try and answer the questions.

[Since90+2]

This thread and anti Hibs player vitriol is horrendous patter.

It's a fans football forum. You are always going to get varying opinion on players ability at the club.

Picking up on another posters spelling is just petty and childlike IMO.

[h1bs4life]

You do have to wonder and doubt whether they genuinely are Hibs fans to have such a pathological dislike for two of our most loyal servants. Lockdown has a lot to answer for.

Here it comes again , genuine Hibs fans because they are fed up going to and from Hampden year after year to see there team bottling it. Any reason for it ? Mentality maybe , we have changed everything else over the years.
People having a a pathological dislike for two of our most loyal servants , could be any players . Loyal servants which I agree they are is no reason to keep players on.
People getting angry because other people think it is time to move on some well paid professional footballers

[Allez Hibs]

This thread has turned into a Jack Ross type thread where there are a few posters challenging the club regarding certain players and if we can or should move on from them, but is then being magnified by the defense of other posters who are becoming even more vocal against the small number of posters which then leads to petty posts and personal insults.

I have seen a few posters say it is a valid point to question the players mentioned.

[J-C]

The managers judgement on the players they have bought or re signed has resulted in them loosing there jobs whether it be sacked, mutually consented or leave . With another one coming in and doing the same.
John Collins and Alan Stubbs are the only two that have won something , Collins was mutually consented and Stubbs thought he had moved on to better things.
In that time there has been plenty of visits to Hampden where we have bottled it with various other managers and players.
Jack Ross was probably the biggest bottle job of the lot with the chances we had so would think it is right that there are questions asked of the manager and his squad.
Looking at the squad there is a few that have little experience of Hampden then you look at the most experienced and have a look at there record.
They are football players like thousands of others that have had there time at a club time to move on and get a club elsewhere , it happens at clubs all over so not sure why the anger that it should happen here .

Can you answer why Hanlon was not part of the squad that got relegated.

Stubbs did not leave thinking he was going somewhere better, he left for the sake of his marriage.

Are you not going to praise Stevenson for the mentoring job he's done with Doig and also Mackie, he's unselfishly helped the young guys knowing his own career is on the wane, just like Daz and Gray.

You cannot point to individuals after last weeks performance, the whole team + manager were very poor.

[Allez Hibs]

You do have to wonder and doubt whether they genuinely are Hibs fans to have such a pathological dislike for two of our most loyal servants. Lockdown has a lot to answer for.

I don't understand the point your making. Fans should be challenging the club to improve.

[Jones28]

This thread has turned into a Jack Ross type thread where there are a few challenging the club regarding certain players and if we can or should move on from them, which is then being magnified by the defense of other posters who are becoming even more vocal against the small number of posters which then leads to petty posts and personal insults.

I have seen a few posters say it is a valid point to question the players mentioned.

There are others arguing against it, it a football forum.

[Allez Hibs]

Stubbs did not leave thinking he was going somewhere better, he left for the sake of his marriage.

Are you not going to praise Stevenson for the mentoring job he's done with Doig and also Mackie, he's unselfishly helped the young guys knowing his own career is on the wane, just like Daz and Gray.

You cannot point to individuals after last weeks performance, the whole team + manager were very poor.

A question solely for discussion...

Would the money Gray and Lewy are on be better used to improve the playing squad by signing players who would compete for places?

[Allez Hibs]

There are others arguing against it, it a football forum.

Yes it is, but there is no need for the pettiness from anyone who doesn't agree with an opinion. See it far too often on here now.

[J-C]

A question solely for discussion...

Would the money Gray and Lewy are on be better used to improve the playing squad by signing players who would compete for places?

No,they won't be on big money and are both working behind the scenes with the younger players.

[Jones28]

A question solely for discussion...

Would the money Gray and Lewy are on be better used to improve the playing squad by signing players who would compete for places?

Stevenson is acting as mentor to Doig, we don't know for certain but Doig has had a superb season and could easily see us break our record transfer, I would argue that if this comes to pass it's excellent value for money to have him at the club.

Not sure about Grey, his input doesn't really have the same obvious benefit as Stevensons.

[Blaster]

Some of the comments against 2 of our legends is unbelievable.

Stevenson is nearing the end of his career at this level, no doubt about it. But this season he’s been a great back up option, able to step in when Doig was tiring in games or needed left out here and there. Hasn’t let us down and has probably helped develop Doig too.

Hanlon is a good reliable centre half. Still a couple of good years at this level. Not perfect of course but always more relaxed when he’s playing and rarely injured (recently). Of course over the next year or two we need to find a replacement and hopefully it can be similar to the Stevenson/Doig situation

Everyone has opinions on players but some are completely blinkered against them no matter what. Players are either great or pants. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle

[J-C]

Stevenson is acting as mentor to Doig, we don't know for certain but Doig has had a superb season and could easily see us break our record transfer, I would argue that if this comes to pass it's excellent value for money to have him at the club.

Not sure about Grey, his input doesn't really have the same obvious benefit as Stevensons.

think Gray, Daz and Lewy are all doing their badges, pretty sure Daz and Gray been working with the young lads during training.

[h1bs4life]

I will concede the spelling pick up is poor patter.

I asked you a question, no answer so I will ask it again. Who has won more Scottish Cup semis than the two you are having an issue with?

Your best effort to date is how many winners medals have they picked up, answer is one. Has any Hibs player won more than that?

The way you are wording it makes winning semi finals a sin.

We are talking Scottish Cup appearances at Hampden so what on earth has player of the year trophies got to do with it?

Try and answer the questions.


Its a bizzare question , does only the Scottish Cup count , surely they all count or do you just cherry pick . What has how many winners medals they have won in the past got do with it.
I am guessing full record below

Scottish Cup
Scottish Cup semi final won , lost the final 2012
Scottish Cup semi final won , lost the final 2013
Scottish Cup semi final won , WON THE CUP 2016
Scottish Cup semi final lost 2017
Scottish Cup semi final lost 2020
Scottish Cup semi final won ,lost the final 2021

League cup
League cup Stevenson played in the final WINNERS 06/07
League cup semi final won ,lost the final 15/16
League cup semi final lost 17/18.
League cup semi final lost 19/20.
League cup semi final lost 20/21.

Its a guess

[MWHIBBIES]

No,they won't be on big money and are both working behind the scenes with the younger players.

After years here and many renewals, they'll both be on above average wages.

[Jay]

I think this thread has run its course. Mostly gone off topic and descended into petty bickering. Thread closed