Glasgow tonight/Rangers fans

[Hibrandenburg]

I am confused about what people want the SFA statement to say?

Whatever they say is relating to something they have no control over - hence everything they say is pointless................but they need to say something.

It is also reasonable (on the basis of the 15000 there) to suggest that it WAS a minority of Sevco fans.

I mean, I despise them as much as the next person but if Rodders came out and said that all Rangers fans are racist sectarian thugs I suspect that he personally and the SFA would be on the end of legal action.

What needs to happen is some form of strict liability so that the SPFL can dock them points for singing in their own and others stadiums - but we have been down this road before and none of the clubs will sign up for it so its flogging a dead horse.

A statement condemning the behaviour would have been enough. The rest just waters it down.

[Peevemor]

A statement condemning the behaviour would have been enough. The rest just waters it down.

Apart from starting off by congratulating the Rangers on their title win, everything else in the statement condemns the behaviour.

[superfurryhibby]

Has it been confirmed whether or not the Rangers players were involved in sectarian singing?

No, but the spin is that it is dubious.

Looked and sounded pretty real to me. If it is, they are going to be in a bit of bother.

[theonlywayisup]

Scotland's shame - when are our politicians and media going to make a stand against this club.

[superfurryhibby]

Scotland's shame - when are our politicians and media going to make a stand against this club.

Sorry, not Scotland's shame. That is such a daft thing to say. What about Ranger's shame instead?

[Hibrandenburg]

Apart from starting off by congratulating the Rangers on their title win, everything else in the statement condemns the behaviour.

On second reading you're probably right.

[Peevemor]

Scotland's shame - when are our politicians and media going to make a stand against this club.

Until the clubs, including our own, accept strict liability (in line with most of Europe), then nothing much can realistically be done.

[James Stephen]

I presume Glen Kamara, his team mates and their client media will lead a high profile campaign against anti Irish and anti Catholic discrimination and hate?

Glen, hello, are you there???

[Brightside]

As a country we have ignored sectarianism, and we continue to ignore it. All sides are disgusting and it has no place in society. It will continue to be ignored. Whilst as a country we put on this mock horror to any racism that is uttered from the side lines or in the media, the majority will continue to ignore sectarianism on both sides. Religion really has no place in modern society never mind football and people just use it as an excuse for petty tribalism. Unless it becomes a punishable crime and actively commented all by all teams in football it will never stop.

[Brightside]

Until the clubs, including our own, accept strict liability (in line with most of Europe), then nothing much can realistically be done.

Correct!

[Rumble de Thump]

I mentioned before but it would have been good if the football authorities had punished Sevco's management for regularly spouting lies and attacking people/clubs via their website over the years. These have been lies geared towards stoking up hatred for financial gain.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Until the clubs, including our own, accept strict liability (in line with most of Europe), then nothing much can realistically be done.

Agreed, and it needs to happen. When there are real consequences, all clubs will finally take sectarianism and other forms of unacceptable behaviour seriously.

[marinello59]

As a country we have ignored sectarianism, and we continue to ignore it. All sides are disgusting and it has no place in society. It will continue to be ignored. Whilst as a country we put on this mock horror to any racism that is uttered from the side lines or in the media, the majority will continue to ignore sectarianism on both sides. Religion really has no place in modern society never mind football and people just use it as an excuse for petty tribalism. Unless it becomes a punishable crime and actively commented all by all teams in football it will never stop.

Religion has no place in modern society? I’m assuming you mean discrimination against religions?

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/hatred-of-fake-rangers-fans-must-be-curbed-helen-martin-3238477?fbclid=IwAR0mqjvDLYnh0W3KcVrIRpw1Q4rqmNmj7 TfT2FZCYu98YdpZ-cY4AML-5zE


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[WhileTheChief..]

Sorry, not Scotland's shame. That is such a daft thing to say. What about Ranger's shame instead?

:top marks

I hate that term. I feel no shame whatsoever for being Scottish because of the actions of Rangers fans.

They’ve embarrassed themselves and their club, no one else.

[Brightside]

Religion has no place in modern society? I’m assuming you mean discrimination against religions?

Nope - I actually mean Religion. And i know that will annoy a good few people. Religion has always been used as a control mechanism, and for all the good it may have done its caused a lot more harm. People hating other people just due to what type of church they go to, or what they call a god? I just find it all so outdated and harmful.

[Oscar T Grouch]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/hatred-of-fake-rangers-fans-must-be-curbed-helen-martin-3238477?fbclid=IwAR0mqjvDLYnh0W3KcVrIRpw1Q4rqmNmj7 TfT2FZCYu98YdpZ-cY4AML-5zE


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Helen being brave here. I hope the misogyny and bile she is about to receive is not too bad. I fear it will reach their usual levels when faced with criticisms.

[Brightside]

:top marks

I hate that term. I feel no shame whatsoever for being Scottish because of the actions of Rangers fans.

They’ve embarrassed themselves and their club, no one else.

But what does the country do about it? Do Hibs ever comment on the constant song book? We do nothing about it. Its Scotland's shame.

[Peevemor]

Helen being brave here. I hope the misogyny and bile she is about to receive is not too bad. I fear it will reach their usual levels when faced with criticisms.

I was pleasantly surprised reading it - much harder hitting than I expected.

[WhileTheChief..]

Religion has no place in modern society? I’m assuming you mean discrimination against religions?

I’m assuming he meant exactly what he said.

Some religions don’t have any place in a modern society. I’d have thought that was obvious.

[Hibrandenburg]

:top marks

I hate that term. I feel no shame whatsoever for being Scottish because of the actions of Rangers fans.

They’ve embarrassed themselves and their club, no one else.

As long as the Scottish authorities do nothing then it is Scotland's shame.

[Since452]

Rangers fans have this hatred and entitlement built into them from an early age. It's a prerequisite to becoming a "proper Rangers fan". Hate the fenians, hate the SNP, hate Sturgeon, hate the SFA, hate the SPFL and on and on. All that on Saturday was due to the built up rage deep inside them. Rangers fans are the problem not religion. They are a different breed that lot and will take generations before its eradicated from their mindset. If you asked them why they were so angry and hated certain things so much 99.9% of them wouldn't be able to explain why and would come out with some pish like "no surrender". Absolute cancer of society that lot, embarrassment to Scotland and them winning the league has just brought it all out in a massive tidal wave. Can't believe we had the chance to bury them for good back in 2012 or whenever it was and let them start again in League two. Opportunity for society missed.

[Brizo]

Out of all the Rangers fans that I know, very few of them attend matches. I know a dozen or so guys from the Glasgow area who, if you ask them, will tell you that they're Rangers supporters. The most any of them will go to is 1 or 2 matches per season.

Out of those (correctly) celebrating Hibs 2016 SC win on the streets & at the links the following day, how many are regular attenders at ER?

So it's easy to criticise, talk about soundbites and box-ticking exercises - but maybe what is being said is correct.

I think you've answered your own question with your opening sentence. Regardless of whether they attend matches or not, those causing trouble at the weekend would have considered themselves Rangers fans and were certainly out to "celebrate" as only Rangers fans can.

There was no reason to include the line "may attach themselves to football but cannot be considered football fans" in the SFA statement unless it was to try and paint the troublemakers as a different element from The Rangers fans. Unless of course, it was those West of Scotland fans latching onto Rangers again and besmirching their good name, they have a habit of doing that around this time of the year.

[adam middlemass]

I’m with these last 3 comments also- keep it Hibs class.
Same here, I have a lot of Rangers friends who are great lads and I know they will be disgusted with some of their fellow supporters!

[blackpoolhibs]

Never heard Celtic fans sign that song in my life. Certainly not in the last 25 odd years or so I've been attending football.

You have never heard them sing the soldiers song? :confused:

[gbhibby]

Until the clubs, including our own, accept strict liability (in line with most of Europe), then nothing much can realistically be done.
Agree, but would be surprised if it was ever voted through. As long as it keeps the turnstiles clicking it will never happen.
I think it requires the Scottish Government and councils applying pressure on the football authorities to get that introduced.

[TheHibernator]

No, but the spin is that it is dubious.

Looked and sounded pretty real to me. If it is, they are going to be in a bit of bother.

Definitely a few chants of **** the pope in there. what chance you got when the players are doing it

[Ozyhibby]

:top marks

I hate that term. I feel no shame whatsoever for being Scottish because of the actions of Rangers fans.

They’ve embarrassed themselves and their club, no one else.

Scotland should be embarrassed. We give them a free pass to keep doing it. We turn a blind eye every single time. We as a nation seem to be ok with anti Catholic bigotry and anti Irish racism. That to me seems like something we should be ashamed of.


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[Hibbyradge]

You have never heard them sing the soldiers song? :confused:

The soldier's song isn't sectarian.

[blackpoolhibs]

Until the clubs, including our own, accept strict liability (in line with most of Europe), then nothing much can realistically be done.

They will be talking about this problem in Scotland long after i've left this world. :rolleyes:

[gbhibby]

Nope - I actually mean Religion. And i know that will annoy a good few people. Religion has always been used as a control mechanism, and for all the good it may have done its caused a lot more harm. People hating other people just due to what type of church they go to, or what they call a god? I just find it all so outdated and harmful.
And you are fully entitled to hold that opinion.

[Victor]

You have never heard them sing the soldiers song? :confused:

The Irish National anthem? Not sure it contains those words, unless they have their own version!


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[blackpoolhibs]

The Irish National anthem? Not sure it contains those words, unless they have their own version!


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They start it with, north men south men comrades all, soon they'l be no Protestants at all, we're on the long road singing a song, singing a soldiers song all together now, soldiers are we......................

[Kato]

The Irish National anthem? Not sure it contains those words, unless they have their own version!


Sent from my iPad using TapatalkMy Irish pal told a group of them in a boozer they didn't know the words. "Woats the wordz then big man?" He proceeded to sing it in Irish Gaelic and gave them a translation too, which doesn't add up to the polite English translation at all. They dont like being educated by Hibs fans at all.

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[JeMeSouviens]

My Irish pal told a group of them in a boozer they didn't know the words. "Woats the wordz then big man?" He proceeded to sing it in Irish Gaelic and gave them a translation too, which doesn't add up to the polite English translation at all. They dont like being educated by Hibs fans at all.

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My Irish brother in law had never heard it in English until he came to Glasgow. It's quite ironic that the more-Irish-than-you club use the English version (and even *******ise that).

[Kato]

My Irish brother in law had never heard it in English until he came to Glasgow. It's quite ironic that the more-Irish-than-you club use the English version (and even *******ise that).I think those English translations come from "Rebel Song" albums of the late 60's early 70's. Ditto with my pal btw, the look he gave those fans in the boozer was genuine bemusement. Irish school kids are taught the gaelic version in class and sing it regularly.

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[marinello59]

Nope - I actually mean Religion. And i know that will annoy a good few people. Religion has always been used as a control mechanism, and for all the good it may have done its caused a lot more harm. People hating other people just due to what type of church they go to, or what they call a god? I just find it all so outdated and harmful.

If that’s you opinion about the nature of religion then fine. I’ll respectfully disagree.
When it comes to the Rangers fans I’d hazard a guess that the vast majority of them spouting the anti-Catholic bile have never set foot in a church. It’s not those who hold the religious beliefs who are the problem here, they are the victims.

[danhibees1875]

Nope - I actually mean Religion. And i know that will annoy a good few people. Religion has always been used as a control mechanism, and for all the good it may have done its caused a lot more harm. People hating other people just due to what type of church they go to, or what they call a god? I just find it all so outdated and harmful.

Is that religion though, or the misinterpretation of religion by some individuals?

I'm not religious, it's not my cup of tea. But I can totally understand why someone would be, in what I'd call the modern sense of the word, religious for reasons around spirituality and the comfort that can bring when considering the bigger questions around life and death.

Generally, and I'll accept my knowledge on the specifics is lacking, I think it's likely that religion gives a solid grounding in terms of "correct" principles to help guide behaviour.

There's maybe some exceptions around the fringes but any major world religion will be followed by significantly more people doing good quietly in their day to day while the odd wrong un gets the attention.

Does your reasoning translate quite well to football also? The tribalism in that is probably more rife than religion, and the upsides a bit harder to find and articulate.

[Brightside]

If that’s you opinion about the nature of religion then fine. I’ll respectfully disagree.
When it comes to the Rangers fans I’d hazard a guess that the vast majority of them spouting the anti-Catholic bile have never set foot in a church. It’s not those who hold the religious beliefs who are the problem here, they are the victims.

I dont disagree. Its used as an excuse. Its tribalism nothing more. We have some of our own fans that take irish flags to games..... for no other reason than tribalism, and trying to noise up other fans. Same goes with Hearts and wee boys with Red Hand flags. Its all a load of ****tte and nothing at all to do with football. Shove it all in the bin. All of it.

[gbhibby]

They start it with, north men south men comrades all, soon they'l be no Protestants at all, we're on the long road singing a song, singing a soldiers song all together now, soldiers are we......................

Off to Dublin in the Green has had its lyrics changed by Celtic supporters. Did hear it sung by our fans as well.

[Victor]

They start it with, north men south men comrades all, soon they'l be no Protestants at all, we're on the long road singing a song, singing a soldiers song all together now, soldiers are we......................

Thanks. Definitely their own version.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Thanks. Definitely their own version.


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That part is from another song called "On the One Road". "Soon there'll be no protestants at all" is a sub for the proper lyric, "Belfast, Dublin, Cork and Donegal".

[Oscar T Grouch]

I was pleasantly surprised reading it - much harder hitting than I expected.

Helen did a good article on why it would be folly for hearts to go down the legal route after their relegation last season, a good well measured and turned out to be correct article. It didn't stop her getting in the neck from the misogynist diet huns, 'she knows nothing about football', 'she should keep her mouth shut' etc etc, looks like she is hitting the nail on the head again.

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/police-probe-video-of-rangers-players-after-title-win?top&amp&__twitter_impression=true


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210517/8e63e0581b7b3807ab2bc14ca6727915.jpg


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[easty]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210517/8e63e0581b7b3807ab2bc14ca6727915.jpg


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Whoever took the video was part of a fairly small number of people in that room. It should be fairly easy for Rangers to give police access to the original, that’d clear things right up.

[Irish_Steve]

Whoever took the video was part of a fairly small number of people in that room. It should be fairly easy for Rangers to give police access to the original, that’d clear things right up.

Aww sorry Mr. Police officer but I accidentally dropped my phone down a set of stairs and it deleted the file....

[CentreLine]

Whoever took the video was part of a fairly small number of people in that room. It should be fairly easy for Rangers to give police access to the original, that’d clear things right up.

Having listened to it on here it really does not sound like sectarian language was used. However, it should not be beyond the abilities of the police to cut out the background noise and isolate what was said. This can be resolved very quickly one way or the other.

The media certainly have the editing ability to report exactly what was said

[Billy Whizz]

Whoever took the video was part of a fairly small number of people in that room. It should be fairly easy for Rangers to give police access to the original, that’d clear things right up.

Guilty until proved innocent

[easty]

Aww sorry Mr. Police officer but I accidentally dropped my phone down a set of stairs and it deleted the file....

If that’s the outcome then make that public. It’ll be clear as day at that point that the video going about was real.

Either way, police Scotland or the government or whoever, has the opportunity here to get out there and make a point. Glen Kamara is in that video, he was poster boy for anti-racism, anti-discrimination a few weeks ago. If the video is fake, then ask him publicly (social media?) how he feels being associated with that kind of chant, that kind of discrimination. Don’t go through Rangers and get a soundbite about the amazing unbeaten season or how they’ve got great fans. Ask Kamara directly to say it’s disgusting.

[easty]

Guilty until proved innocent

I don’t know how you get that from what I said?

However, guilty until proven innocent was exactly the way rangers wanted the Slavia player treated.

[Carheenlea]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210517/8e63e0581b7b3807ab2bc14ca6727915.jpg


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Predictable.

It’s an excellent piece of doctoring with one of the players giving a little bit of emphasis with a gesture at the offensive lyric addition favoured by Rangers supporters. Similar to what additions they made to “Simply the Best” If folk are suggesting they can’t really make out the FTP, what do they think has been added to the song instead? Did they make up their own addition for the day?

[04Sauzee]

Predictable.

It’s an excellent piece of doctoring with one of the players giving a little bit of emphasis with a gesture at the offensive lyric addition favoured by Rangers supporters. Similar to what additions they made to “Simply the Best” If folk are suggesting they can’t really make out the FTP, what do they think has been added to the song instead? Did they make up their own addition for the day?

From Rangers fans on twitter... There is a real one and a fake one. The fake one has been doctored. The fake one was originally posted by an ex Celtic player who has since deleted his account.

Celtic fans on Twitter... The videos circulating were from a live feed. The videos circulating are taken from different areas of the room and are all in sync with the FTP comments.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Imagine if the Scottish Government tried to address the problem with say an Offensive Behaviour At Football Act targetting secterianism linked to our national sport in our society as a starting point real fans would line up behind it and fully suppo...oh hang on a minute

[marinello59]

Predictable.

It’s an excellent piece of doctoring with one of the players giving a little bit of emphasis with a gesture at the offensive lyric addition favoured by Rangers supporters. Similar to what additions they made to “Simply the Best” If folk are suggesting they can’t really make out the FTP, what do they think has been added to the song instead? Did they make up their own addition for the day?

Sounded like the normal duh duh duhs to me.
Putting that to one side the version I saw was a TikTok video. And tiktok is all about matching the actions of people to a separate soundtrack. Even I could doctor a soundtrack on there and I am hopeless at that type of thing.

[Rumble de Thump]

I can't make out what's being sung but, seeing as the people running Sevco have claimed it was doctored, they obviously think they know something offensive was being sung.

[superfurryhibby]

As long as the Scottish authorities do nothing then it is Scotland's shame.

[


More of the blame deflection that plays into the bigots hands, just different takes on the same nonsense. It's not my shame, the disgrace belongs firmly with the bigots. What would you suggest the "authorities" actually do?

[degenerated]

You have never heard them sing the soldiers song? :confused:That's a different song. The soldiers song is the Irish national anthem that song is we're on the one road by the wolfetones.

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[blackpoolhibs]

That's a different song. The soldiers song is the Irish national anthem that song is we're on the one road by the wolfetones.

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Yip, the celtic version of the soldiers song is bigoted.

[degenerated]

Yip, the celtic version of the soldiers song is bigoted.The Celtic supporters version of the "We're on the on the one road" by the Wolfetones is bigotted.

The soldiers song, a completely different song, isn't a bigotted song.

Yours A.Pedant :greengrin

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[The Count]

Wee Huns song from years gone past think to the tune of a Harry Lauder song.There is a Celtic version too but hete we go sing along!!!!!

Oh no Pope in Rome
No Chapels to sadden my eyes
No nuns and no priests
No rosery beads
And every day once the 12th of July

Had to listen to this at games at Easter Road in the seventies and nothing was done then or now.If that was about Jews or Muslims something would be done.

[Carheenlea]

Sounded like the normal duh duh duhs to me.
Putting that to one side the version I saw was a TikTok video. And tiktok is all about matching the actions of people to a separate soundtrack. Even I could doctor a soundtrack on there and I am hopeless at that type of thing.

Would someone be more prone to giving a middle finger gesture during a “duh duh duh” or a “FTP” in a rendition of Sweet Caroline?

[blackpoolhibs]

The Celtic supporters version of the "We're on the on the one road" by the Wolfetones is bigotted.

The soldiers song, a completely different song, isn't a bigotted song.

Yours A.Pedant :greengrin

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I know what you mean, what i'm saying is they mix the two to make one bigoted song. :wink:

[Ozyhibby]

Wee Huns song from years gone past think to the tune of a Harry Lauder song.There is a Celtic version too but hete we go sing along!!!!!

Oh no Pope in Rome
No Chapels to sadden my eyes
No nuns and no priests
No rosery beads
And every day once the 12th of July

Had to listen to this at games at Easter Road in the seventies and nothing was done then or now.If that was about Jews or Muslims something would be done.

You’ll hear it again soon enough because Hibs are happy to keep inviting them to sing their songs to our children so long as the club can make a quid.


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[marinello59]

Would someone be more prone to giving a middle finger gesture during a “duh duh duh” or a “FTP”?

I have no idea why anybody would be doing that.
I really hope it’s fake, I don’t want their fans being given any green lights at all. I’ll be gutted if it turns out to be real, it will only make things worse. There are Celtic fans who will be desperate for it it be real though.

[Since90+2]

If the video is real there needs to be serious repercussions ie points deductions. The signal it would send out if it turns out to be real and it was given lip service would be abhorrent.

[MrSmith]

The Rangers, their fans and the orange lodge should be classed as terrorist organisations, I have never witnessed so much hatred, spite, vile and disgusting acts by a bunch of reprobates. The carnage The Rangers cause in all walks of life is there to be seen and witnessed by every other team and fans when that terrorist mob come visit.

[Peevemor]

You’ll hear it again soon enough because Hibs are happy to keep inviting them to sing their songs to our children so long as the club can make a quid.


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Do you think Hibs are "happy" to invite them, or do you think the club suffers the huns because we need the money?

[Smartie]

Do you think Hibs are "happy" to invite them, or do you think the club suffers the huns because we need the money?

Hibs are entirely complicit.

Doing without the cash would mean that we might have to do without half of a squad midfielder for 2 or 3 months, but the idea that we're reliant on the cash for survival is fanciful.

We choose to take their money and let them behave how they like.

[Chorley Hibee]

Do you think Hibs are "happy" to invite them, or do you think the club suffers the huns because we need the money?

I don't get this, unacceptable behaviour should be called out, full stop!

How much they spend shouldn't even be considered, and if it is classed as being important, then you're (Hibs) part of the problem.

Someone needs to set an example, and I'd love it to be Hibs.

I think I'll be waiting a long time though.

[blackpoolhibs]

Do you think Hibs are "happy" to invite them, or do you think the club suffers the huns because we need the money?

That's not the reason to ignore what they do, if i owned a shop and someone came in and abused me every time he bought something, should i just put up with it because i'm getting money from him?

[Peevemor]

All very good.

Nobody answered my question though.

[Chorley Hibee]

All very good.

Nobody answered my question though.

What is the definition of "need" though?

And can the need ever be so justifiable in this instance?

[Kato]

All very good.

Nobody answered my question though.

They should be fed to the seagulls.

What was the question?

[Hibby70]

They should be fed to the seagulls.

What was the question?

Whole or in small pieces?

[Sammy7nil]

You’ll hear it again soon enough because Hibs are happy to keep inviting them to sing their songs to our children so long as the club can make a quid.


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A tad unfair this is not Hibs problem to solve. Although I agree we could be part of the solution this is a social issue that should be tackled by Government and Police.


That's not the reason to ignore what they do, if i owned a shop and someone came in and abused me every time he bought something, should i just put up with it because i'm getting money from him?

If you want their money and they refuse to change then yes :greengrin

[Billy Whizz]

All very good.

Nobody answered my question though.

I’d be bumping up the price of the International subscribers season ticket😂

[Kato]

Whole or in small pieces?

All options should be on the menu.

[Peevemor]

What is the definition of "need" though?

And can the need ever be so justifiable in this instance?The need is dictated by the type of players we want. Any loss in gate receipts comes directly off the playing budget as all the other bills still have to be paid regardless.

Why not ban Celtic fans too? Between them thats £0.5m off our playing budget. We don't actually need it though do we?

[MWHIBBIES]

Do you think Hibs are "happy" to invite them, or do you think the club suffers the huns because we need the money?You do not suffer sectarian abuse because you need money. That is spineless. I'd happily sacrifice a decent player every year to really take a stand against the bigotry in this country. Fans would almost certainly back the club to cover the shortfall as well.


You’ll hear it again soon enough because Hibs are happy to keep inviting them to sing their songs to our children so long as the club can make a quid.


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I agree with you. I am normally 100% behind the club, but they (along with everyone else) are utterly spineless against sectarianism. They were when Stubbs was abused, they were when lennon was abused, they still are. Its extremely disappointing.

[Victor]

One solution would be to use our state of the art CCTV system to film them when the sectarian singing starts and either hand it over to the police, or broadcast it, so everyone can see those responsible. Privacy laws are overridden because there is enough signage telling them that filming is taking place. There are probably a lot of 90 minute bigots who wouldn’t be so quick to partake if their anonymity was being destroyed.


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[Greenbeard]

Late to the party on The The Rangers statement so apologies if this has already been commented on.
They say "These so called 'fans' should reflect upon the values and ethos of our club."
I say, "They did. Which is exactly why they behaved the way they did."

[Big_Franck]

The need is dictated by the type of players we want. Any loss in gate receipts comes directly off the playing budget as all the other bills still have to be paid regardless.

Why not ban Celtic fans too? Between them thats £0.5m off our playing budget. We don't actually need it though do we?

It's considerably less than 500k between the 4 games old firm games. And that's before you take the huge cost of increased policing and stewarding off the top figure.

As others have said though, the club are clearly happy to take the money from the rangers and allow them to harras locals to and from the ground and to sing their songs at our home. We'll continue to do absolutely nothing about it as we've done my whole life.

[Peevemor]

You do not suffer sectarian abuse because you need money. That is spineless. I'd happily sacrifice a decent player every year to really take a stand against the bigotry in this country. Fans would almost certainly back the club to cover the shortfall as well.


That's fine if that's your choice.

Do you ever go to watch Hibs at Ibrox?

I was wondering how many fans are so offended that they want the huns banned from ER, but will pay to support Hibs at Ibrox and put up with all their pish by choice.

[Peevemor]

It's considerably less than 500k between the 4 games old firm games. And that's before you take the huge cost of increased policing and stewarding off the top figure.

As others have said though, the club are clearly happy to take the money from the rangers and allow them to harras locals to and from the ground and to sing their songs at our home. We'll continue to do absolutely nothing about it as we've done my whole life.

It'll definitely be around £500k in receipts.

When I went every week I was always delighted to have loads of huns at ER - all the better when we beat them.

There were few games that I enjoyed more in terms of atmosphere.

I wouldn't have taken my kids though.

[CentreLine]

If the video is real there needs to be serious repercussions ie points deductions. The signal it would send out if it turns out to be real and it was given lip service would be abhorrent.

If it’s real they should be subject to the same penalties they were demanding be applied to Sparta Prague.

[CentreLine]

Hibs are entirely complicit.

Doing without the cash would mean that we might have to do without half of a squad midfielder for 2 or 3 months, but the idea that we're reliant on the cash for survival is fanciful.

We choose to take their money and let them behave how they like.

I have to disagree I’m afraid. My own view is Hibs are all about sporting integrity. Football is an entertainment business and that means fans of both sides should be represented.

[Smartie]

All very good.

Nobody answered my question though.

I believe Hibs are happy to invite them and don’t need the money.

With a bit of creativity the financial impact could be mitigated.

I understand Hibs’ reluctance to effectively chuck away a significant sum of money though.

[Keith_M]

That's fine if that's your choice.

Do you ever go to watch Hibs at Ibrox?

I was wondering how many fans are so offended that they want the huns banned from ER, but will pay to support Hibs at Ibrox and put up with all their pish by choice.


So anybody that goes to Ibrox to support our club and gets abused by those Neanderthals is complicit?

Come on mate, that's nonsense.

[Chorley Hibee]

The need is dictated by the type of players we want. Any loss in gate receipts comes directly off the playing budget as all the other bills still have to be paid regardless.

Why not ban Celtic fans too? Between them thats £0.5m off our playing budget. We don't actually need it though do we?

Personally, there's not a monetary figure where racism/sectarianism becomes acceptable.

Whilst it's not Hibs problem per se, it's incumbent upon us all to call it out.

That's the first step to defeating this IMHO.

[Peevemor]

I believe Hibs are happy to invite them and don’t need the money.

With a bit of creativity the financial impact could be mitigated.

I understand Hibs’ reluctance to effectively chuck away a significant sum of money though.The ability to magic up £200k+ would certainly be creative.

[Rumble de Thump]

The reason the problem persists is because people in football and the media view it as an opportunity to make money or the potential to lose money.

[MWHIBBIES]

That's fine if that's your choice.

Do you ever go to watch Hibs at Ibrox?

I was wondering how many fans are so offended that they want the huns banned from ER, but will pay to support Hibs at Ibrox and put up with all their pish by choice.

I do/have yes.

Its different in your own ground, where young families attend, where you should feel safe and should be able to go without hearing that. With only 900 tickets for Ibrox, I cant imagine there are many going who aren't used to if, if still uncomfortable.

You should be able to sit in your own stadium without that *****. Our manager should be able to manage the team without that *****.

I personally am not offended by it. I am in no way religious. I am not BAME either, but I'd be appalled sitting listening to racist abuse in my own stadium, and if a hibs fan was responsible, I'd speak to a steward or Police officer, as my dad did when I was younger and an idiot called Yves Makalamby a racist name.

The huns can do what they like in their own stadium and Hibs cant change that. We can however set a standard for behaviour in our own ground.

[MWHIBBIES]

The ability to magic up £200k+ would certainly be creative.

Get into Europe. Sorted. Win on Saturday we're looking at 3 million plus. Huns can keep their cash.

[Peevemor]

So anybody that goes to Ibrox to support our club and gets abused by those Neanderthals is complicit?

Come on mate, that's nonsense.I'm not saying that.

People are either offended to the point of not wanting to be in the same stadium as them or they're not.

It's as simple as that.

[Peevemor]

Get into Europe. Sorted. Win on Saturday we're looking at 3 million plus. Huns can keep their cash.Good plan. We should do that every year.

[Keith_M]

I have to disagree I’m afraid. My own view is Hibs are all about sporting integrity. Football is an entertainment business and that means fans of both sides should be represented.


Would that be your view if the opposition fans were singing songs about murdering jews or black people?

I can tell you right now that our club, the media, the football authorities and the government would condemn them without hesitation.

And yet, when it's the sectarian abuse (which is just as bad) that they've dished out for nearly a century.... it's total silence from all concerned.

The word 'hypocrites' springs immediately to mind.

[blackpoolhibs]

There are signs and announcements through the tannoy system EVERY game telling us racist and unruly behaviour will not be accepted, and you will be ejected or arrested, cant quite remember the wording.

This is clearly only for our supporters not the away end when they come calling.

Hibs fans cant really complain about their actions, when we as a club only really pay lip service to it and dont do anything to stop it.

[Peevemor]

I do/have yes.

Its different in your own ground, where young families attend, where you should feel safe and should be able to go without hearing that. With only 900 tickets for Ibrox, I cant imagine there are many going who aren't used to if, if still uncomfortable.

You should be able to sit in your own stadium without that *****. Our manager should be able to manage the team without that *****.

I personally am not offended by it. I am in no way religious. I am not BAME either, but I'd be appalled sitting listening to racist abuse in my own stadium, and if a hibs fan was responsible, I'd speak to a steward or Police officer, as my dad did when I was younger and an idiot called Yves Makalamby a racist name.

The huns can do what they like in their own stadium and Hibs cant change that. We can however set a standard for behaviour in our own ground.And as I said above, I hate the huns with a passion but I loved the atmosphere when they came to ER, despite the crap they were singing. There was nothing better than beating them in those circumstances.

[Billy Whizz]

If Sky didn’t show most of our home games v the Old Firm, we’d sell a lot more PPV
Think LD said before she left, that 10,000 or so subscribed to Hibs v Celtic, which wasn’t on Sky, £20 x 10000 = £200k, is much more than 3900 x £30 = £117k, both include VAT

[The_Sauz]

Is this a joke

"Rangers say "a small minority of people" have "besmirched the good name" of the club following disorder in Glasgow city centre."
:confused:

[Chorley Hibee]

I agree with you. I am normally 100% behind the club, but they (along with everyone else) are utterly spineless against sectarianism. They were when Stubbs was abused, they were when lennon was abused, they still are. Its extremely disappointing.

I'm still angered by those incidents, and you would think an employer would be vocal in their condemnation of sectarian abuse suffered by their employees.

Just imagine your own employer didn't condemn racist/sectarian abuse of you in the workplace - all because that person/organisation brought income to your employer.

Hard to believe isn't it, but then we have Scottish football.

[Peevemor]

If Sky didn’t show most of our home games v the Old Firm, we’d sell a lot more PPV
Think LD said before she left, that 10,000 or so subscribed to Hibs v Celtic, which wasn’t on Sky, £20 x 10000 = £200k, is much more than 3900 x £30 = £117k, both include VATIn that case you also have to deduct TV deal money from our annual income. That would hurt.

[Keith_M]

Is this a joke

"Rangers say "a small minority of people" have "besmirched the good name" of the club following disorder in Glasgow city centre."
:confused:



There's two things wrong with that that jump out to me.

That's no 'small minority'... and since when did they have a 'good name'?

[MWHIBBIES]

And as I said above, I hate the huns with a passion but I loved the atmosphere when they came to ER, despite the crap they were singing. There was nothing better than beating them in those circumstances.

If you believe bigotry is a good atmosphere, that is up to you. Personally I find it disgusting.

[Keith_M]

In that case you also have to deduct TV deal money from our annual income. That would hurt.


Would you have the same viewpoint if they were singing anti-semitic or racist songs?

Or are you suggesting that money is the most important thing?

[Chorley Hibee]

The reason the problem persists is because people in football and the media view it as an opportunity to make money or the potential to lose money.

Bang on the money! (Pardon the pun)

[neil7908]

And as I said above, I hate the huns with a passion but I loved the atmosphere when they came to ER, despite the crap they were singing. There was nothing better than beating them in those circumstances.

Unfortunately the Sevco banter years are gone now, and I can't see us winning many games against them at ER in the future. I get its tough for the club but I do think it's team we began to look seriously at options for tackling this that are within our remit.

I think the very fact you've said you wouldn't take kids to a Sevco game is pretty telling and highlights why we need to do something.

[Billy Whizz]

In that case you also have to deduct TV deal money from our annual income. That would hurt.

Not at all, if Sky would choose other games apart from these 2
Every club gets the same amount of home TV games, it’s just outs are always against the ugly 2

[The_Sauz]

There are signs and announcements through the tannoy system EVERY game telling us racist and unruly behaviour will not be accepted, and you will be ejected or arrested, cant quite remember the wording.

This is clearly only for our supporters not the away end when they come calling.

Hibs fans cant really complain about their actions, when we as a club only really pay lip service to it and dont do anything to stop it.
That's the problem in the UK, sectarian singing is not classed as being a racist! When you have the Royal family being against Catholics, the law will never change:agree:

[ancient hibee]

In that case you also have to deduct TV deal money from our annual income. That would hurt.
No it wouldn’ t . The TV deal is with the league not the individual clubs and the money is part of the prize pot to be split according to finishing place.

[ancient hibee]

Is this a joke

"Rangers say "a small minority of people" have "besmirched the good name" of the club following disorder in Glasgow city centre."
:confused:

It’s been described as a small minority as long as I can remember.Celtic the same.

[CMurdoch]

That's not the reason to ignore what they do, if i owned a shop and someone came in and abused me every time he bought something, should i just put up with it because i'm getting money from him?

Ron owns Hibs and Rangers supporters don't abuse him so not a comparable example.

The best thing that could happen would be Hibs having sufficient supporters to fill all 4 stands for all games against the erse cheeks
We could then build a piddling structure in one of the corners to give Rangers and Celtic their 2% of the tickets.
However, we don't seem to have enough Hibs supporters to fill the ground consistently for those fixtures so nothing will change.
Sadly neither Hibs nor sufficient numbers of our supporters have ever been upset enough by the songs and behaviour to do anything other than moan about it.
Seen it for the last 50 years so it will continue well into the future.

[Billy Whizz]

You have to wonder what UEFA think of the weekends events, got the Euros in Glasgow in a few weeks

[Hibiza]

Just thugs / bigots . Sad .

[Kato]

One solution would be to use our state of the art CCTV system to film them when the sectarian singing starts and either hand it over to the police, or broadcast it, so everyone can see those responsible. Privacy laws are overridden because there is enough signage telling them that filming is taking place. There are probably a lot of 90 minute bigots who wouldn’t be so quick to partake if their anonymity was being destroyed.


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It's what a big screen is for.

[Peevemor]

Would you have the same viewpoint if they were singing anti-semitic or racist songs?

Or are you suggesting that money is the most important thing?Thankfully I don't have to make those decisions.

I'm playing the devil's advocate a bit in pointing out that there would be numerous knock-on effects of banning the hun hoarde from ER.

There are a great many who enjoy the atmosphere at these matches, and that would be gone (though I appreciate that some may prefer it).

There would also be a financial effect. It's easy to say that we could handle it, but there are plenty posts on here during transfer windows that would suggest otherwise.

The chances are that we would also be banned from Ibrox. Anyone that's been at Ibrox for a Hibs win knows how special it is.

And for what it's worth, in the real world I'm always the first to stick up for people against any form of prejudice, often risking a sore face or worse.

[Peevemor]

If you believe bigotry is a good atmosphere, that is up to you. Personally I find it disgusting.I find it disgusting too. That's why I like the them and us tribalism of it all, especially the occasional times when we manage to shut them up.

[Peevemor]

Not at all, if Sky would choose other games apart from these 2
Every club gets the same amount of home TV games, it’s just outs are always against the ugly 2And what if everyone wanted the same thing, ie. that their home games against the huns (and/or Celtic) weren't televised? Do you think Sky & the other companies would still stump up the same money?

[calumhibee1]

If you believe bigotry is a good atmosphere, that is up to you. Personally I find it disgusting.

:agree:

[Squealing pig]

This racism by players will get swept under carpet , nothing to see here guys

[Aldo]

You have to wonder what UEFA think of the weekends events, got the Euros in Glasgow in a few weeks

Did they not fine and force them to close part of ibrox as a result of their singing antics??


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[CentreLine]

Would that be your view if the opposition fans were singing songs about murdering jews or black people?

I can tell you right now that our club, the media, the football authorities and the government would condemn them without hesitation.

And yet, when it's the sectarian abuse (which is just as bad) that they've dished out for nearly a century.... it's total silence from all concerned.

The word 'hypocrites' springs immediately to mind.

I did make my view very clear on the adjacent post but fir the avoidance of doubt, l think the authorities have been letting down a number of sections of society for years. I think strict liability should be introduced. I think clubs should be sanctioned when their fans step out of line. And, if the content of the video is shown to accurately show sectarian abuse being expounded by The Rangers players and staff I think The Rangers football club players and staff should be subjected to the same punishment that that particular club was demanding fir the Kamara incident.
If firm and consistent action is taken by the authorities then this vile behaviour can be removed from the game.
But I stand by my comment that football is supposed to be an entertainment business and that should be to entertain fans from both sides.

[marinello59]

This racism by players will get swept under carpet , nothing to see here guys

Maybe we should wait for the Police investigation first. I’m far from convinced that video shows any Rangers player being racist/bigoted. The real wish by some for it to be true is bizarre. Innocent until proven guilty for all.

[Peevemor]

Did they not fine and force them to close part of ibrox as a result of their singing antics??


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYes, because UEFA have a policy of strict liability - something that Scottish clubs voted against at a domestic level.

It's the only way forward IMO.

[Since452]

https://twitter.com/Govanemeraldcsc/status/1394200108665876484?s=20

[Hibernia&Alba]

Maybe we should wait for the Police investigation first. I’m far from convinced that video shows any Rangers player being racist/bigoted. The real wish by some for it to be true is bizarre. Innocent until proven guilty for all.

Correct. If guilty, they are in deep trouble, but let's see what happens before castigating them.

[The Modfather]

Thankfully I don't have to make those decisions.

I'm playing the devil's advocate a bit in pointing out that there would be numerous knock-on effects of banning the hun hoarde from ER.

There are a great many who enjoy the atmosphere at these matches, and that would be gone (though I appreciate that some may prefer it).

There would also be a financial effect. It's easy to say that we could handle it, but there are plenty posts on here during transfer windows that would suggest otherwise.

The chances are that we would also be banned from Ibrox. Anyone that's been at Ibrox for a Hibs win knows how special it is.

And for what it's worth, in the real world I'm always the first to stick up for people against any form of prejudice, often risking a sore face or worse.

Is there a middle ground between banning Rangers fans, and the knock on effect of that, and just pretending it doesn’t exist? Could we sell them tickets and also call out when our managers are subjected to sectarianism?

Do you think Hibs should be calling out what happens and playing our small part? Or continue to remain silent?

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://twitter.com/Govanemeraldcsc/status/1394200108665876484?s=20

Now, that's a Glesga burd. Dear God.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Now, that's a Glesga burd. Dear God.

One of the comments- Methadone chick. 😆

[CentreLine]

Is there a middle ground between banning Rangers fans, and the knock on effect of that, and just pretending it doesn’t exist? Could we sell them tickets and also call out when our managers are subjected to sectarianism?

Do you think Hibs should be calling out what happens and playing our small part? Or continue to remain silent?

We don’t know but I suspect the club do call this out to the authorities but not in public outbursts. Maybe that’s what people want and perhaps it is what is needed but perhaps the club prefer to do their business quietly and efficiently.
I do remember Leeann Dempster talking about regular interaction between clubs and with the SPFL and SFA on crowd behaviour

[Ozyhibby]

Is there a middle ground between banning Rangers fans, and the knock on effect of that, and just pretending it doesn’t exist? Could we sell them tickets and also call out when our managers are subjected to sectarianism?

Do you think Hibs should be calling out what happens and playing our small part? Or continue to remain silent?

Hibs won’t do a thing. Clubs talks about its values but they are for sale.


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[Peevemor]

Is there a middle ground between banning Rangers fans, and the knock on effect of that, and just pretending it doesn’t exist? Could we sell them tickets and also call out when our managers are subjected to sectarianism?

Do you think Hibs should be calling out what happens and playing our small part? Or continue to remain silent?I've often wondered if the silence surrounding certain incidents (not just our own), is either encouraged or imposed by the powers that be (both football & civic) to avoid an even more poisonous atmosphere which could boil over onto the "terracing".

I also wonder if, under the current (non strict liability) rules, are Hibs liable for away supporters breaking the law at Easter Road?

[Ozyhibby]

We don’t know but I suspect the club do call this out to the authorities but not in public outbursts. Maybe that’s what people want and perhaps it is what is needed but perhaps the club prefer to do their business quietly and efficiently.
I do remember Leeann Dempster talking about regular interaction between clubs and with the SPFL and SFA on crowd behaviour

You just tell yourself that because you don’t want to think bad things about our club. Most fans do.


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[Pretty Boy]

https://twitter.com/Govanemeraldcsc/status/1394200108665876484?s=20

She would have been sharing show racism the red card posts in support of Kamara 2 weeks ago.

You couldn't mark their brass necks with a blow torch.

[Peevemor]

Hibs won’t do a thing. Clubs talks about its values but they are for sale.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYou don't know that.

[Ozyhibby]

You don't know that.

Yes I do, because the club turns a blind eye every time it happens at Easter road and we do nothing. The vile abuse Stubbs had to put up with was ignored by the club. They want the cash too much. And little kids coming to Easter road to watch Hibs have to listen to it.
It’s uncomfortable to hear because you love Hibs but deep down you know the club should be taking a stand but cold hard cash means more to it. We give them the green light to carry on.


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[CentreLine]

You just tell yourself that because you don’t want to think bad things about our club. Most fans do.


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Oh dear. I didn’t realise. But I’m certain I didn’t imagine LD’s assurances

[The Modfather]

I've often wondered if the silence surrounding certain incidents (not just our own), is either encouraged or imposed by the powers that be (both football & civic) to avoid an even more poisonous atmosphere which could boil over onto the "terracing".

I also wonder if, under the current (non strict liability) rules, are Hibs liable for away supporters breaking the law at Easter Road?

Steve Clarke managed to speak out about it and then get the Scotland job. I wouldn’t have thought there was much more to it than everyone is happy to pretend it doesn’t exist rather than any appetite to tackle it.

You never answered my question whether you would like Hibs to speak out about it or just keep our heads down and stay silent.

[Stuart93]

Yes I do, because the club turns a blind eye every time it happens at Easter road and we do nothing. The vile abuse Stubbs had to put up with was ignored by the club. They want the cash too much. And little kids coming to Easter road to watch Hibs have to listen to it.
It’s uncomfortable to hear because you love Hibs but deep down you know the club should be taking a stand but cold hard cash means more to it. We give them the green light to carry on.


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Aye you’re probably right unfortunately. The club have had ample opportunities in the past to come out and publicly slam it but they haven’t.

Nothing will ever change if, and it’s a big if, everything gets done behind the scenes and away from the public eye

There needs to be a massive backlash from the public and it needs to be out in the open for anything to ever get done about it. I have a good feeling all the events/videos/crime that happened over the weekend will be swept underneath the carpet, as usual. Mental to think there was a year long enquiry including people’s faces printed across the country in the papers after the 2016 final yet countless hoardes of them can trash Glasgow on more than one occasion and barely anything gets done about it

[gbhibby]

Now, that's a Glesga burd. Dear God.
Looks like the guy Abdul who I think is a member of Tommy Robinsons party in the background. Abdul I think was banned from Ibrox. He is a cult hero amongst their support.

[CentreLine]

Back on subject, if they were chanting sectarian stuff do we think it was only a small minority of players and staff besmirching the good name of their club?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Looks like the guy Abdul who I think is a member of Tommy Robinsons party in the background. Abdul I think was banned from Ibrox. He is a cult hero amongst their support.

I remember him: the Asian guy who sings the same song. Clearly unhinged.

[Peevemor]

Steve Clarke managed to speak out about it and then get the Scotland job. I wouldn’t have thought there was much more to it than everyone is happy to pretend it doesn’t exist rather than any appetite to tackle it.

You never answered my question whether you would like Hibs to speak out about it or just keep our heads down and stay silent.

I'd be delighted if Hibs spoke out.

[Aldo]

Yes, because UEFA have a policy of strict liability - something that Scottish clubs voted against at a domestic level.

It's the only way forward IMO.

Indeed but there would have to be strict guidelines and when it would apply.

Hindsight is a great thing but what if Rangers had opened their doors on Saturday would there have been as many issues in George Sq?

FWIW there is an element of idiots in every support and there are more than a few in our own support.

I remember very well being in a pub in ER when a sing song started and the song that kept being sung

O Edinburgh is wonderful o Edinburgh is wonderful apart from Hearts...... and a number of other words I won’t repeat.

Myself and my dad left almost immediately and to this day I’ve never been back in that establishment. Worst thing about it friends of mines (former friends now) were singing at top of their voices and saw nothing wrong with it.

Not spoken to them since!


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[Stuart93]

It’s funny seeing all the ex rangers players coming out pretending that they’re shocked at what’s happened, as if they had no idea what the rangers fan base was like 😂

[Lendo]

I remember him: the Asian guy who sings the same song. Clearly unhinged.

aye that’s him.

Seen him on Easter Road with the Hearts young team ahead of derbies, getting selfies taken like he’s some kind of celeb. Think he has a football banning order for every ground in the country.

[Chorley Hibee]

An excerpt of the Rangers statement after Kamara incident:

"We refuse to acknowledge any attempt to defend, deflect or deny the abuse"

Rangers when their players are accused of sectarianism:

"It is deeply concerning that this video has been taken as genuine"

[Kato]

It’s funny seeing all the ex rangers players coming out pretending that they’re shocked at what’s happened, as if they had no idea what the rangers fan base was like [emoji23]Like the ones who claim they are being made victims of sectarianism when they are called "huns". So shocked!

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[mcohibs]

Yes I do, because the club turns a blind eye every time it happens at Easter road and we do nothing. The vile abuse Stubbs had to put up with was ignored by the club. They want the cash too much. And little kids coming to Easter road to watch Hibs have to listen to it.
It’s uncomfortable to hear because you love Hibs but deep down you know the club should be taking a stand but cold hard cash means more to it. We give them the green light to carry on.


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Great post. The unfortunate truth.

[Lendo]

It’s spinning out of control for Rangers. Have to wonder what Gerard thinks of all of this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-57149159

[Greencore]

Now, that's a Glesga burd. Dear God.

To be fair to her she does have to act like it's eurovision or her boyfriend will beat the ***** out her. Next season it will be sellick.

[Ozyhibby]

It’s spinning out of control for Rangers. Have to wonder what Gerard thinks of all of this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-57149159

Nah, it will all be forgotten about in a couple of days.


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[CMurdoch]

She would have been sharing show racism the red card posts in support of Kamara 2 weeks ago.

You couldn't mark their brass necks with a blow torch.

To be fair that is a monumentally thick person.
Hard to blame Rangers FC for her not learning much at school or anywhere else for that matter.

[kaimendhibs]

To be fair that is a monumentally thick person.
Hard to blame Rangers FC for her not learning much at school or anywhere else for that matter.

Shock horror. The video shown on STV and BBC is edited to not show Kamara

[Peevemor]

Shock horror. The video shown on STV and BBC is edited to not show KamaraBecause they would be liable if it turns out to be faked.

[Kaff]

It’s spinning out of control for Rangers. Have to wonder what Gerard thinks of all of this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-57149159

I won't be surprised that they chuck the 3rd choice keeper under the bus, he's the one with the matching hand gestures and they can claim its one rogue player shouting above the 'duh duh duh' of the others. Coincidence that he'll be pretty much least valuable as a player too.
The other suspects will get under the radar on this and Rangers look as though they take a hard line.
I've absolutely no doubt it's genuine and I think Rangers are going to have come clean, he gives them a less messy exit I tbink

[Billy Whizz]

I won't be surprised that they chuck the 3rd choice keeper under the bus, he's the one with the matching hand gestures and they can claim its one rogue player shouting above the 'duh duh duh' of the others. Coincidence that he'll be pretty much least valuable as a player too.
The other suspects will get under the radar on this and Rangers look as though they take a hard line.
I've absolutely no doubt it's genuine and I think Rangers are going to have come clean, he gives them a less messy exit I tbink

Who’s their 3rd keeper

[Kaff]

Who’s their 3rd keeper

I've seen the number 13 named as Andy Firth

Edit
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/andy-firth/profil/spieler/279133

[Stuart93]

Nah, it will all be forgotten about in a couple of days.


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Yep as usual. Sweep sweep because football clubs up here and the media let it.

[BILLYHIBS]

https://twitter.com/Govanemeraldcsc/status/1394200108665876484?s=20

Dearie me!

What a set o gnashers by the way

[Sir David Gray]

It’s spinning out of control for Rangers. Have to wonder what Gerard thinks of all of this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-57149159

I'm a bit confused by Humza Yousaf's statement regarding how he's "disgusted" but in the same breath he doesn't seem to know if the video's real or not.

Is he not better to find out if the video's genuine before saying he's disgusted by it?

[Peevemor]

I'm a bit confused by Humza Yousaf's statement regarding how he's "disgusted" but in the same breath he doesn't seem to know if the video's real or not.

Is he not better to find out if the video's genuine before saying he's disgusted by it?Did you miss the bit where he said "If, (I stress if) this clip is genuine..."?

Nothing confusing about it.

[degenerated]

If the video is real there needs to be serious repercussions ie points deductions. The signal it would send out if it turns out to be real and it was given lip service would be abhorrent.At the very least they should have their alcohol licence removed for flouting current laws.

Sent from my CPH2009 using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

If it has been doctored, will it be possible to trace the person responsible?

[Largshibby]

I'm a bit confused by Humza Yousaf's statement regarding how he's "disgusted" but in the same breath he doesn't seem to know if the video's real or not.

Is he not better to find out if the video's genuine before saying he's disgusted by it?

I’m still waiting to hear how disgusted he was at the illegal gathering in support of Palestine.

[Sir David Gray]

Did you miss the bit where he said "If, (I stress if) this clip is genuine..."?

Nothing confusing about it.

I didn't miss anything, no.

I'm referring to the interview he gave to the BBC where the "disgusted" comment came from - he said he was disgusted and then went onto say "if it's genuine players and staff should be shown the door." You're referring to the tweet - two different things.

As I say I'm confused.

[Lendo]

At the very least they should have their alcohol licence removed for flouting current laws.

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I was wondering that. Where are they? Surely they shouldn’t be getting served alcohol indoors anywhere right now, or do the rules (continue) not to apply to Rangers?

[Peevemor]

I didn't miss anything, no.

I'm referring to the interview he gave to the BBC where the "disgusted" comment came from - he said he was disgusted and then went onto say "if it's genuine players and staff should be shown the door." You're referring to the tweet - two different things.

As I say I'm confused.

Surely between the interview and the tweet you can work out what he means, or maybe you prefer to have a dig?

[Hibiza]

There's two things wrong with that that jump out to me.

That's no 'small minority'... and since when did they have a 'good name'?

Spot on .

[JimBHibees]

It’s funny seeing all the ex rangers players coming out pretending that they’re shocked at what’s happened, as if they had no idea what the rangers fan base was like 😂

There has been footage in the past showing the same thing remember Neil Mccann being in one. Its aye been as they say in the borders.

[Ronniekirk]

I was wondering that. Where are they? Surely they shouldn’t be getting served alcohol indoors anywhere right now, or do the rules (continue) not to apply to Rangers?

Elite Athletes


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[Hibernia&Alba]

I’m still waiting to hear how disgusted he was at the illegal gathering in support of Palestine.

That was completely peaceful, socially distanced and people had masks. Completely different, and in response to an emergency situation. There were marches across the world.

[BoomtownHibees]

I’m still waiting to hear how disgusted he was at the illegal gathering in support of Palestine.

Oh dear

[Sir David Gray]

Surely between the interview and the tweet you can work out what he means, or maybe you prefer to have a dig?

To be fair I would have expected someone in his position to be able to articulate himself in such a manner without someone having to "work out" what he means about a matter that's currently the subject of a police investigation.

Not a dig, simply an observation.

[Since452]

Remember when the media blamed the Scottish Cup final riot on us? Hahahahahaha

[Ronniekirk]

That was completely peaceful, socially distanced and people had masks. Completely different, and in response to an emergency situation. There were marches across the world.

I have no issue with that march going ahead But I fail to see why thousands were allowed to congregate and yet a week later 600 people wearing masks sitting socially distanced from each other poses any risk whatsoever to public Health
In fact it doesn’t


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[Lendo]

I’m still waiting to hear how disgusted he was at the illegal gathering in support of Palestine.

I must have missed the bit where those protesters started throwing benches and traffic bollards at the police.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I have no issue with that march going ahead But I fail to see why thousands were allowed to congregate and yet a week later 600 people wearing masks sitting socially distanced from each other poses any risk whatsoever to public Health
In fact it doesn’t


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, good point.

[neil7908]

So Sevco aren't actually denying the video is real, is that correct? They suggested no offense has been committed but I didn't see a flat out denial it was fake.

[Bristolhibby]

It’s spinning out of control for Rangers. Have to wonder what Gerard thinks of all of this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-57149159

Have they honestly come out with “Fake News” to the video?

J

[Peevemor]

To be fair I would have expected someone in his position to be able to articulate himself in such a manner without someone having to "work out" what he means about a matter that's currently the subject of a police investigation.

Not a dig, simply an observation.

Aye OK.

[degenerated]

Looks like the guy Abdul who I think is a member of Tommy Robinsons party in the background. Abdul I think was banned from Ibrox. He is a cult hero amongst their support.Goes to hearts games as well, I saw him hanging about behind the fence in the old church on Albion road shouting sectarian abuse at Hibs fans at a derby a couple of seasons ago

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[tamig]

So Sevco aren't actually denying the video is fake, is that correct? They suggested no offense has been committed but I didn't see a flat out denial it was fake.

They have taken the usual pulling down the shutters stance. Straight on the defensive questioning the validity of the clip. Would most clubs not have come out with something along the lines of “we are investigating these claims and won’t be commenting further until the investigation is complete.” They don’t do themselves any favours at all.

[degenerated]

Like the ones who claim they are being made victims of sectarianism when they are called "huns". So shocked!

Sent from my SM-A405FN using TapatalkBlame nil by mouth for Hun being termed as sectarian, that's what happens when whattaboutery is entertained.

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[Torto7]

Dearie me!

What a set o gnashers by the way

Classy young lady. Plenty of Huns won't see anything wrong with that video.:brickwall

[tamig]

I’m still waiting to hear how disgusted he was at the illegal gathering in support of Palestine.

Aye they ran amok through the city centre and battered the police right enough.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Blame nil by mouth for Hun being termed as sectarian, that's what happens when whattaboutery is entertained.

Sent from my CPH2009 using Tapatalk

It was a crazy declaration. Scotland has a heavy Protestant majority, but only The Rangers are called Huns. It has never been used to describe Protestants generally.

[Torto7]

Have they honestly come out with “Fake News” to the video?

J

Don't they have some weirdo DUP zealot in charge of the press now? They were implying the SNP left material for them to riot in George Square on Follow Follow yesterday. That's a tactic directly from the far right in the US and the false claims Antifa were being armed by the state with bricks etc to riot. There's some seriously shady people whipping them up into a frenzy.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I’m still waiting to hear how disgusted he was at the illegal gathering in support of Palestine.

Protesting about people being killed is sort of different to having a city wide piss up because your team won a trophy, no?

[Lendo]

This ***** is so ingrained in to the culture of Rangers it’s unreal, which is why I have absolutely no trouble believing the video is real.

Exhibit A
https://twitter.com/1888JT/status/1011134538314141696?s=20

[Largshibby]

That was completely peaceful, socially distanced and people had masks. Completely different, and in response to an emergency situation. There were marches across the world.

Socially distanced? You’re having a laugh. Anyway my point is that gatherings over a certain number are illegal irrespective of how peaceful they are or the cause involved.

[Ozyhibby]

If it has been doctored, will it be possible to trace the person responsible?

If it had been doctored then surely the original is already out there? Unless Rangers believe that the person who filmed it doctored it? In that case it’s a member of their own staff?
The reason we know it’s not doctored is because there is no original online anywhere.


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[Largshibby]

Protesting about people being killed is sort of different to having a city wide piss up because your team won a trophy, no?

If anyone ends up with covid as a result of either gathering I’m sure they’ll be fine about it. It’s just a shame the NHS will have to pick up the pieces.

[Stuart93]

If it had been doctored then surely the original is already out there? Unless Rangers believe that the person who filmed it doctored it? In that case it’s a member of their own staff?
The reason we know it’s not doctored is because there is no original online anywhere.


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Supposedly at the time it went up it was a live feed from wherever it was

[Ozyhibby]

Supposedly at the time it went up it was a live feed from wherever it was

I’m sure other bluenoses would have been recording as well though?


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[Hibrandenburg]

[


More of the blame deflection that plays into the bigots hands, just different takes on the same nonsense. It's not my shame, the disgrace belongs firmly with the bigots. What would you suggest the "authorities" actually do?

A few things come to mind.

Admit there's a Sectarian problem in Scotland that is polarised by 2 clubs in the west.

Pressure the SFA to fine them points and money when they start their party songs, games behind closed doors if that doesn't work.

Pass laws to implicate clubs for the actions of their fans.

Ban Orange marches and other Sectarian extravaganzas.

Crack heads if need be to avoid scenes like at the weekend.

Treat sectarianism like racism and other hate crimes.

That's just off the top of my head but I'm sure the list isn't exhausted.

[Stuart93]

A few things come to mind.

Admit there's a Sectarian problem in Scotland that is polarised by 2 clubs in the west.

Pressure the SFA to fine them points and money when they start their party songs, games behind closed doors if that doesn't work.

Pass laws to implicate clubs for the actions of their fans.

Ban Orange marches and other Sectarian extravaganzas.

Crack heads if need be to avoid scenes like at the weekend.

Treat sectarianism like racism and other hate crimes.

That's just off the top of my head but I'm sure the list isn't exhausted.

Didn’t we have a vote not long ago for clubs to be punished for the actions of their fans and we voted against it?

[truehibernian]

I’m sure other bluenoses would have been recording as well though?


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Gives them time to dub and edit and present as the 'original' I suppose :cb

[Stuart93]

Also, if the video hasn’t been doctored, shouldn’t rangers be done?

[Peevemor]

Didn’t we have a vote not long ago for clubs to be punished for the actions of their fans and we voted against it?

Only 3 clubs out of 42 voted for.


https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/47646210

[hibIBZ]

I’m sure other bluenoses would have been recording as well though?


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You can see on that video others are filming, if it is fake release the others and prove it

[superfurryhibby]

A few things come to mind.

Admit there's a Sectarian problem in Scotland that is polarised by 2 clubs in the west.

Pressure the SFA to fine them points and money when they start their party songs, games behind closed doors if that doesn't work.

Pass laws to implicate clubs for the actions of their fans.

Ban Orange marches and other Sectarian extravaganzas.

Crack heads if need be to avoid scenes like at the weekend.

Treat sectarianism like racism and other hate crimes.

That's just off the top of my head but I'm sure the list isn't exhausted.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Not sure about laws or cracking heads, but I’ll be all for the rest. :aok:

[EI255]

Absolutely spot on. The 2 cheeks of the same erse excuse comes to the huns rescue every time. It means their fans get away with their sectarian wrecking parades time after time.

What happened yesterday and several weeks ago has naff all to do with Celtic or any other club. Rangers and their bigoted fans are in the dock and they should be hammered for what happened.100% correct.

What The Rangers fans did in Manchester and at the weekend goes way, way beyond anything that any other Scottish (and maybe British) club's fans have ever done.

Saturday set a new bar in behaviour. To see grown woman acting the way they did too.... my oh my. Utter zombies.

No other set of fans will EVER reach those horrible heights.

All in the good name of RFC.

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[CentreLine]

Finally a journalist says it as it is

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/rangers/rangers-the-superiority-syndrome-and-anti-catholic-bigotry-why-it-cannot-go-unchallenged-any-more-3240210

[truehibernian]

I remember being at a conference a few years ago and challenging a police officer about the flagrant anti-catholic and bigoted/sectarian postings on Rangers Media without any censorship or deletion. His reply was 'they are entitled to free speech'. When I asked him if his new unit were going to police these forums he said they didn't have the 'resources'. Yet they found the resources to continually look for the identity of supporters who encroached a football pitch, for weeks and months :cb

It's all about appetite to police the issue for me. When you have an officer saying that, what hope have you got that the organisation that has the power to really have an impact, stays silent, does nothing, and is almost complicit in allowing it to happen in plain sight.

One thing I enjoy about this forum is that although opinions differ, and there is the occasional fall out, I've never seen a post that has me ever thinking 'that's crossed the line'. As Marvin said when discussing racism online, remove the forums that are inciting hate, create mechanisms where the identity of posters are verified, and get the social media platforms to take much more social responsibility.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Finally a journalist says it as it is

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/rangers/rangers-the-superiority-syndrome-and-anti-catholic-bigotry-why-it-cannot-go-unchallenged-any-more-3240210

Excellent article.

[truehibernian]

Excellent article.

It is H&A, but what disappointed me most is that Sportsound (tonight for example) should be dedicating a whole week debating last weekend (and weekends prior) yet tonight they spent more time on debating cup final allocations and stadium distancing. The whole subject needs proper debate in the media, people from The Rangers invited to contribute, and the extent of the social damage properly debated. I could not care less about Daryl and Tom having an argument about tickets after what happened at the weekend to be honest. Call them out, and do so repeatedly and take them on.

[JimBHibees]

Finally a journalist says it as it is

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/rangers/rangers-the-superiority-syndrome-and-anti-catholic-bigotry-why-it-cannot-go-unchallenged-any-more-3240210

Excellent article absolutely nail on the head. pig sick of their nonsense being tolerated and actively encouraged

[Smartie]

Crikey. The online and offline intimidation squads are going to have their work cut out gaining timely retribution upon all of those who have besmirched the good name of Rangers these past few days.

It is music to my ears to hear them finally getting called out.

About bloody time.

That Scotsman article is majestic.

Even better, I don't think there is anyone currently at Ibrox with the intellect to manage this situation.

[Hibrandenburg]

The reason the problem persists is because people in football and the media view it as an opportunity to make money or the potential to lose money.

In a nutshell, it's a marketing strategy.

[Peevemor]

Finally a journalist says it as it is

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/rangers/rangers-the-superiority-syndrome-and-anti-catholic-bigotry-why-it-cannot-go-unchallenged-any-more-3240210That's the best piece I've read in the Scotsman for years.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It is H&A, but what disappointed me most is that Sportsound (tonight for example) should be dedicating a whole week debating last weekend (and weekends prior) yet tonight they spent more time on debating cup final allocations and stadium distancing. The whole subject needs proper debate in the media, people from The Rangers invited to contribute, and the extent of the social damage properly debated. I could not care less about Daryl and Tom having an argument about tickets after what happened at the weekend to be honest. Call them out, and do so repeatedly and take them on.

Aye, the trivial stuff is an easy get out. Issues such as sectarianism in Scotland are difficult to discuss and require courage. They also provoke a backlash and criticism, which programmes like Sportsound are very reluctant to endure.

[Hibrandenburg]

Indeed but there would have to be strict guidelines and when it would apply.

Hindsight is a great thing but what if Rangers had opened their doors on Saturday would there have been as many issues in George Sq?

FWIW there is an element of idiots in every support and there are more than a few in our own support.

I remember very well being in a pub in ER when a sing song started and the song that kept being sung

O Edinburgh is wonderful o Edinburgh is wonderful apart from Hearts...... and a number of other words I won’t repeat.

Myself and my dad left almost immediately and to this day I’ve never been back in that establishment. Worst thing about it friends of mines (former friends now) were singing at top of their voices and saw nothing wrong with it.

Not spoken to them since!


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100% the correct reaction.

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm a bit confused by Humza Yousaf's statement regarding how he's "disgusted" but in the same breath he doesn't seem to know if the video's real or not.

Is he not better to find out if the video's genuine before saying he's disgusted by it?

If it's fake then that's pretty disgusting too no?

[Kaff]

Finally a journalist says it as it is

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/rangers/rangers-the-superiority-syndrome-and-anti-catholic-bigotry-why-it-cannot-go-unchallenged-any-more-3240210

Good article.
I really hope there's a collective attitude from journalists here, there's a few starting to report this openly and if they go in decent number across several publications then the hatred they'll face is diluted.
If they value the role of the journalist they won't leave a couple hanging in the wind getting all the online hatred and subsequent downturn in their career.
This is a very telling moment

[Hibrandenburg]

Didn’t we have a vote not long ago for clubs to be punished for the actions of their fans and we voted against it?

I didn't :wink:

[Carheenlea]

Leigh Griffiths could have saved himself a whole lot of trouble following his Roseburn Bar episode.

“Videos doctored mate”

[CentreLine]

That's the best piece I've read in the Scotsman for years.

Agreed. Mind you, there are other articles still referring to the violent disturbances and disgraceful behaviour of Rangers fans as”celebrations”. The media needs to take its lead from this Scotsman journalist

[plhibs]

Finally a journalist says it as it is

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/rangers/rangers-the-superiority-syndrome-and-anti-catholic-bigotry-why-it-cannot-go-unchallenged-any-more-3240210

Absolutely spot on with all of that, good for him having the guts to tell the truth about that lot.

[truehibernian]

Leigh Griffiths could have saved himself a whole lot of trouble following his Roseburn Bar episode.

“Videos doctored mate”

And Scott Brown could say he was pictured eating a tofu sandwich after a late night run in West Port to maintain his fitness levels :greengrin

[007]

You have to wonder what UEFA think of the weekends events, got the Euros in Glasgow in a few weeks

Maybe "Phone the SRU and see if Murrayfield is available."

[CMurdoch]

Finally a journalist says it as it is

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/rangers/rangers-the-superiority-syndrome-and-anti-catholic-bigotry-why-it-cannot-go-unchallenged-any-more-3240210

Beautifully written and covers most of the issues and the backstory.

[Sir David Gray]

If it's fake then that's pretty disgusting too no?

I'm not sure I'd describe myself as disgusted at that to be honest, I'd find it pretty sad that someone's taken the time to doctor a video in that way to create fake headlines.

His comments to the BBC were;

"I'm disgusted by it and let's not call it sectarian it's anti-Catholic and let me just say very, very clearly that if that video is genuine then first of all I'm pleased that Police Scotland are investigating it and they will liaise with the Crown to see if any criminality has taken place.

But let me also appeal to Rangers that they will also, they should also, investigate. If any players or staff have been found to take part in that anti-Catholic hatred then they should be shown the door."

I just found it confusing that the Justice Secretary is disgusted by something that he himself doesn't even know if it's genuine or not. I just found it to be an odd thing to say at this stage that's all.

[007]

Finally a journalist says it as it is

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/rangers/rangers-the-superiority-syndrome-and-anti-catholic-bigotry-why-it-cannot-go-unchallenged-any-more-3240210

He's spot on but now that's he's admitted the media have played a part in it, will he now call them out week in, week out for their sectarian singing at every match?

[Stuart93]

He's spot on but now that's he's admitted the media have played a part in it, will he now call them out week in, week out for their sectarian singing at every match?

Probably not. Most likely only done that report because it’s relevant just now and knows it will be read. They’ll say nothing more about it once it’s been swept away again

[Kaff]

I'm not sure I'd describe myself as disgusted at that to be honest, I'd find it pretty sad that someone's taken the time to doctor a video in that way to create fake headlines.

His comments to the BBC were;

"I'm disgusted by it and let's not call it sectarian it's anti-Catholic and let me just say very, very clearly that if that video is genuine then first of all I'm pleased that Police Scotland are investigating it and they will liaise with the Crown to see if any criminality has taken place.

But let me also appeal to Rangers that they will also, they should also, investigate. If any players or staff have been found to take part in that anti-Catholic hatred then they should be shown the door."

I just found it confusing that the Justice Secretary is disgusted by something that he himself doesn't even know if it's genuine or not. I just found it to be an odd thing to say at this stage that's all.

In other words, you think Humza believes it to be a genuine recording, that Rangers players do chant FTP and that the onus is on the club to disprove the authenticity of it?

I believe that too but in his position let's accept that, at this stage, there has to be an element of innocent until proved guilty given as they are taking a defensive position and are known for their litigious nature

[007]

Probably not. Most likely only done that report because it’s relevant just now and knows it will be read. They’ll say nothing more about it once it’s been swept away again

Exactly. It'll soon be yesterday's news as far as the press goes. If they don't consider a Scotsman journo to be too small-time to be bothering with, he might have earned himself an Ibrox ban.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Spot on EEN

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/hatred-of-fake-rangers-fans-must-be-curbed-helen-martin-3238477?

[Sir David Gray]

In other words, you think Humza believes it to be a genuine recording, that Rangers players do chant FTP and that the onus is on the club to disprove the authenticity of it?

I believe that too but in his position let's accept that, at this stage, there has to be an element of innocent until proved guilty given as they are taking a defensive position and are known for their litigious nature

I've no idea what to believe. Things are so well done these days on social media and they appear genuine when they're actually not. Not being a big Tiktoker myself I'm not aware of the ins and outs of how it all works but I do know that putting fake sound onto a video is possible. On the other hand it's not beyond the realms of possibility for employees of Rangers to engage in a bit of bigotry.

If anyone in that video has uttered the phrase "**** the pope" then they should be dealt with accordingly but in any situation like this when it gets to the stage of a police investigation I believe it is up to the police and authorities to prove their guilt rather than it being up to the accused to prove their innocence.

[Torto7]

Spot on EEN

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/hatred-of-fake-rangers-fans-must-be-curbed-helen-martin-3238477?

Yeah another good piece. I was encouraged by Rod Petrie's statement as well.

[CMurdoch]

Spot on EEN

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/hatred-of-fake-rangers-fans-must-be-curbed-helen-martin-3238477?

No it's not. It's a fairly appallingly written piece.
I suspect Helen Martin knows little about the subject and chapped that drivel out in 15 minutes.
She should read the Scotsman article to get some writing pointers.

[Hibernia&Alba]

No it's not. It's a fairly appallingly written piece.
I suspect Helen Martin knows little about the subject and chapped that drivel out in 15 minutes.
She should read the Scotsman article to get some writing pointers.

Disagree. I think her premise that The Rangers support is motivated as much by religion/politics as by football is entirely accurate. It's long past time The Rangers was called out for this.

[CMurdoch]

Disagree. I think her premise that The Rangers support is motivated as much by religion/politics as by football is entirely accurate. It's long past time The Rangers was called out for this.

That is obviously true but it is an appallingly poor piece of professional writing.
No insight, just stating the blindingly obvious.

[Hibernia&Alba]

That is obviously true but it is an appallingly poor piece of professional writing.
No insight, just stating the blindingly obvious.

But how often is the blindingly obvious discussed in the Scottish media? How often is the essence of The Rangers FC spelled out starkly across mainstream outlets? They have been allowed to continue with their poison for 150 years.

[Torto7]

But how often is the blindingly obvious discussed in the Scottish media? How often is the essence of The Rangers FC spelled out starkly across mainstream outlets? They have been allowed to continue with their poison for 150 years.

It's the way it was written not the message CMurdoch is calling out. It is poorly written I actually thought it was from a reader initially that's why I thought it was good. For a professional piece it's awful structure wise.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It's the way it was written not the message CMurdoch is calling out. It is poorly written I actually thought it was from a reader initially that's why I thought it was good. For a professional piece it's awful structure wise.

But this isn't about literary criticism; it's a newspaper article. I don't mind that she doesn't write like Tolstoy; I think her conclusion is correct. In a few hundred words she has expressed the nub of the issue: Scotland must deal with its anti-Catholicism; something which, in many ways, Rangers FC is the vehicle.

[cabbageandribs1875]

quite lengthy sorry, couldn't find a link to it.... but

Yesterday in George Square wasn’t a celebration.
Yesterday in George Square wasn’t even really about Rangers.
Yesterday in George Square was a grotesque show of force.
It was about scaring. Inconveniencing. Harming. Intimidating. Frustrating.
It was a horde made up of people so filled with impotent anger that they only needed the smallest excuse to take their anger out on everything around them.
It was people so without wins in their life that they take an occasion that could have been a source of pride for them and instead use it to magnify their hate and bigotry.
Yesterday in George Square was like a corrupted, twisted protest.
And they were there to protest not being allowed to do whatever they want.
They want to get wasted wherever they want.
Ignore covid guidelines whenever they want.
Go wherever they want.
Do whatever they want.
Because they’re so angry that their life hasn’t turned out exactly as they want.
And now what they really want is to take that out on everyone else.
To blame everyone else.
Yesterday in George Square they wanted to show that if enough of them got together, they could do just that.
Today in George Square we see the aftermath.
A carpet of smashed glass.
Blue and red paint on every surface.
Used needles.
The reek or urine.
Defaced monuments.
Blood stained pavements.
The pungent aromas of mingled alcohols
The people who did that don’t love Glasgow. They don’t love Scotland. They don’t even love Rangers.
You don’t do things like this because you love. You do it because you hate.
I feel bad for the real fans.
The ones who actually do love football,
And who aren’t just using it as an excuse to start riots, act upon bigotry, break things, and attack people.
They ought to have been allowed to be proud yesterday,
To feel some happiness in a year with too little joy to offer.
Instead, thanks to the actions of the mob, they are left with shame and embarrassment.
If I were them I’d petition the club to kick these fans out.
To make a clear message that you don’t stand with them.
They shouldn’t be hard to identify...
They don’t wear masks.
Scotland stands up to bigotry, racism and hatred.
We’re doing an okay job.
We’re getting there.
Slowly.
But we won’t succeed until we rout out the dark undercurrent of hatred represented by the rioters yesterday.
This isn’t a call against all Rangers fans.
This is a call against the kind of people using the guise of football to enact their vile ideals.
So if you feel attacked by this it’s not because you’re a Rangers fan,
It’s because you support hatred.
Next year in George Square let’s make sure there is no place for hate.
Let’s make sure the impotent anger and entitlement of people like those is no longer given a voice in our country.

[CMurdoch]

But how often is the blindingly obvious discussed in the Scottish media? How often is the essence of The Rangers FC spelled out starkly across mainstream outlets? They have been allowed to continue with their poison for 150 years.

If a story is worth telling it is worth telling well.
The article in the Scotsman is gold.
Beautifully written and captures the issues and backstory well and concisely.
The journalist will have taken hours and loads of rewrites to produce it.
It will be read far and wide.

P.S. Hibernian FC must be happy with the supporters of Rangers FC because I have seen them in great numbers in Easter Road for the last 50 years. Equally Hibs supporters have never done more than moan about the issue so they can't be much bothered either.
It just takes good men to do nothing as the old saying goes and moaning is nothing.
I expect i'll see the south stand once again full of the red white and blue next season whilst Ron counts their cash.
Perhaps someone will discuss that in the media :wink:.

[Hibernia&Alba]

If a story is worth telling it is worth telling well.
The article in the Scotsman is gold.
Beautifully written and captures the issues and backstory well and concisely.
The journalist will have taken hours and loads of rewrites to produce it.
It will be read far and wide.

I think that's harsh, personally. How many newspaper articles are remembered long term? It's about immediate impact, and I think her article grasps the moment.

Get The Huns called out and further the debate. :agree:

[Kaff]

I think that's harsh, personally. How many newspaper articles are remembered long term? It's about immediate impact, and I think her article grasps the moment.

Get The Huns called out and further the debate. :agree:

I agree with your analysis.
I think she was first to get this angle on the situation out there and fair play to the Scotsman journo as he's followed up with a good piece, it's now incumbent on all fair minded journalists that they report similarly and back up their colleagues. At this point it doesn't really matter if they are from the Beano or The Times imo

[Antifa Hibs]

If a story is worth telling it is worth telling well.
The article in the Scotsman is gold.
Beautifully written and captures the issues and backstory well and concisely.
The journalist will have taken hours and loads of rewrites to produce it.
It will be read far and wide.

P.S. Hibernian FC must be happy with the supporters of Rangers FC because I have seen them in great numbers in Easter Road for the last 50 years. Equally Hibs supporters have never done more than moan about the issue so they can't be much bothered either.
It just takes good men to do nothing as the old saying goes and moaning is nothing.
I expect i'll see the south stand once again full of the red white and blue next season whilst Ron counts their cash.
Perhaps someone will discuss that in the media :wink:.

Hibs are as complicit as anyone else in Scottish society with regards to Rangers' anti-catholic racism. The treatment Stubbsy and Lennon received at the hands of the Rangers support at home and Ibrox yet the club sat on their ***** and done absolutely **** all about it. They're obviously no different to some on here who believe a club like Hibs can only exist because of £200k in gate receipts generated by a travelling hun support.

[Peevemor]

Hibs are as complicit as anyone else in Scottish society with regards to Rangers' anti-catholic racism. The treatment Stubbsy and Lennon received at the hands of the Rangers support at home and Ibrox yet the club sat on their ***** and done absolutely **** all about it. They're obviously no different to some on here who believe a club like Hibs can only exist because of £200k in gate receipts generated by a travelling hun support.If you're speaking about me, I never once said that we needed their £200k to exist, just that there would be a choice to be made and an effect if we didn't have it.

[Antifa Hibs]

If you're speaking about me, I never once said that we needed their £200k to exist, just that there would be a choice to be made and an effect if we didn't have it.

Course a choice had to be made.

You either allow your staff to be verbally abused at their work or you don't. Hibs choose to allow it. A statement was released straight after full-time when the ******** in the West stand shouting something racist towards the Hertz player, somehow 4000 fans calling your managers a fenian went un-noticed and it was radio-silence from the bottling Hibs board.

[Pretty Boy]

Course a choice had to be made.

You either allow your staff to be verbally abused at their work or you don't. Hibs choose to allow it. A statement was released straight after full-time when the ******** in the West stand shouting something racist towards the Hertz player, somehow 4000 fans calling your managers a fenian went un-noticed and it was radio-silence from the bottling Hibs board.

I think Hibs are just a product of the same environment that has allowed sectarianism to flourish for so long. We simply don't see racism and sectarianism as being comparable in Scotland.

If 3500 football fans pitched up at ER and made monkey noises when a black player touched the ball there would be outrage and the demands to ban them from ER in future would be deafening, the financial hit wouldn't even come into it. The same number pitch up and call our manager(s) a 'fenian *******' and as a fanbase and as a club we don't do much or anything at all. It's because the latter is normalised, it's part and parcel of playing Rangers, it's always happened etc etc. It extends beyond football as well. I can remember as a child watching a show on the BBC or STV around about New Year and Andy Cameron was parading about pretending to toss a baton in the air at the front of an orange walk. The live audience were in stitches and, to the best of my knowledge, there was no public outcry. A bit of harmless, family friendly fun at the expense of the Catholics. Closer to home I hear it in work. One guy in particular is a nice enough guy but he slips casual sectarianism into conversation fairly often. A while back he was telling us about his grandson playing football and said it was worrying because he was left footed, 'we'll be having no ****ing left footers in my house ha ha ha'. I'm worse than him because I didn't challenge it, which is exactly what Hibs are being accused of.

It's a conversation that needs to extend beyond football. A few journalists finally being brae enough or feeling empowered enough to call it out is a decent enough starting point.

[hibIBZ]

I think Hibs are just a product of the same environment that has allowed sectarianism to flourish for so long. We simply don't see racism and sectarianism as being comparable in Scotland.

If 3500 football fans pitched up at ER and made monkey noises when a black player touched the ball there would be outrage and the demands to ban them from ER in future would be deafening, the financial hit wouldn't even come into it. The same number pitch up and call our manager(s) a 'fenian *******' and as a fanbase and as a club we don't do much or anything at all. It's because the latter is normalised, it's part and parcel of playing Rangers, it's always happened etc etc. It extends beyond football as well. I can remember as a child watching a show on the BBC or STV around about New Year and Andy Cameron was parading about pretending to toss a baton in the air at the front of an orange walk. The live audience were in stitches and, to the best of my knowledge, there was no public outcry. A bit of harmless, family friendly fun at the expense of the Catholics. Closer to home I hear it in work. One guy in particular is a nice enough guy but he slips casual sectarianism into conversation fairly often. A while back he was telling us about his grandson playing football and said it was worrying because he was left footed, 'we'll be having no ****ing left footers in my house ha ha ha'. I'm worse than him because I didn't challenge it, which is exactly what Hibs are being accused of.

It's a conversation that needs to extend beyond football. A few journalists finally being brae enough or feeling empowered enough to call it out is a decent enough starting point.

This is where I am at, I have said far too many times now that if the word fenian was replaced by the "N" word (even writing it this way highlights the issue) is a lot of these situations, there is no way it would be tolerated in any way. there would be mass protests, boycotts, UEFA or government intervention.

It has be come normalised because it's "them"

I have personally attempted to stop pandering to the resident rangers fan at work and from now on will say it as it is. It's not a minority, it never has been. Rangers fans are by far the worst behaved at Easter Road. I know for a fact that he can claim to not be like that and that Rangers fans are not all like that, but he will still go to Ibrox and belt out the party songs with the rest. whether they believe what they are signing or understand it or not, it should be challenged at every opportunity. For me I will try to no longer feel uncomfortable or scared to challenge somebody when anything like this takes place. it wont be easy and I probably wont have the guts or determination to do it every time but we must start somewhere.

[KingPat4]

This is where I am at, I have said far too many times now that if the word fenian was replaced by the "N" word (even writing it this way highlights the issue) is a lot of these situations, there is no way it would be tolerated in any way. there would be mass protests, boycotts, UEFA or government intervention.

It has be come normalised because it's "them"

I have personally attempted to stop pandering to the resident rangers fan at work and from now on will say it as it is. It's not a minority, it never has been. Rangers fans are by far the worst behaved at Easter Road. I know for a fact that he can claim to not be like that and that Rangers fans are not all like that, but he will still go to Ibrox and belt out the party songs with the rest. whether they believe what they are signing or understand it or not, it should be challenged at every opportunity. For me I will try to no longer feel uncomfortable or scared to challenge somebody when anything like this takes place. it wont be easy and I probably wont have the guts or determination to do it every time but we must start somewhere.

I have been doing this for years now and have lost quite a few 'Friends' along the way. I grew up amongst them in the 1960s Alloa, where what seemed like 90% were Huns. It was impossible to question them back then, although apparently had been a Glasgow 'Overspill', town and everyone's faither, faither's faither's and so on, were Gers fans. Not once have I heard some kind of reason, logical rationale for their hatred towards Catholics, especially Irish ones. 'Coz they came over and took wer joabs', is probably the best.

If Trump had the Scottish vote, he'd still be President. Vile and ignorant beyond belief.

[Saint Hibee]

Only 3 clubs out of 42 voted for.


https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/47646210

Liability should no longer be up to the clubs. The consequences are felt by all members of Scottish society and dealing with them paid for by their taxes, including those who don't like football. The government should just step in and impose strict liability on the clubs - it's the only solution.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think Hibs are just a product of the same environment that has allowed sectarianism to flourish for so long. We simply don't see racism and sectarianism as being comparable in Scotland.

If 3500 football fans pitched up at ER and made monkey noises when a black player touched the ball there would be outrage and the demands to ban them from ER in future would be deafening, the financial hit wouldn't even come into it. The same number pitch up and call our manager(s) a 'fenian *******' and as a fanbase and as a club we don't do much or anything at all. It's because the latter is normalised, it's part and parcel of playing Rangers, it's always happened etc etc. It extends beyond football as well. I can remember as a child watching a show on the BBC or STV around about New Year and Andy Cameron was parading about pretending to toss a baton in the air at the front of an orange walk. The live audience were in stitches and, to the best of my knowledge, there was no public outcry. A bit of harmless, family friendly fun at the expense of the Catholics. Closer to home I hear it in work. One guy in particular is a nice enough guy but he slips casual sectarianism into conversation fairly often. A while back he was telling us about his grandson playing football and said it was worrying because he was left footed, 'we'll be having no ****ing left footers in my house ha ha ha'. I'm worse than him because I didn't challenge it, which is exactly what Hibs are being accused of.

It's a conversation that needs to extend beyond football. A few journalists finally being brae enough or feeling empowered enough to call it out is a decent enough starting point.

Done the same myself, laughed at comments made mainly because i did not want to cause an argument. I think there is a real fear for people to take that club and especially their supporters to task over their blatant bigotry.

They have positioned themselves as a club and support to strike fear through the rest of the country if you oppose anything they say.

People who clearly know they are in the wrong, are frightened to say anything incase they are targeted by their supporters, and even journalists know they can be eased out their jobs by simply telling the truth.

I dont know the answer, but until such times as we stand up to them, and it needs the government and the authorities too, nothing changes.

With those full of rangers sympathisers, and their clear agenda to sweep everything under the carpet as usual, i cant see things getting any better, or changing anytime soon.

[greenginger]

Liability should no longer be up to the clubs. The consequences are felt by all members of Scottish society and dealing with them paid for by their taxes, including those who don't like football. The government should just step in and impose strict liability on the clubs - it's the only solution.


Should liability only only be applied to football clubs, how about crowds attending festivals , political rallies, protests, etc .

Should the organisers of any event be held liable for every action of every person attending an event, including travelling to and from such events :confused: