European super league

[jacomo]

Na. Stan Kronke is tight with Perez. They are two of the leaders in the group.


I think you’re probably right there.

Kroenke seems to treat Arsenal solely as a cash generating machine. I doubt he has any qualms at all about destroying the traditions of the sport he has invested in.

[jacomo]

I'm not really arguing for it - just seeing I guess what the clubs are thinking here.

Football can still be about that in the domestic leagues. What this proposal is challenging really is whether there is still any relevance in the Champions League. The 'big' clubs all appear to be saying that no, they don't think it will be relevant in future and there would prefer to take European football in a different direction.

The UEFA proposals from 2024 are going some way toward this themselves in allocating places based on previous performance. A team finishing lower in the league could still qualify ahead of a team higher placed. The allocation of CL places, the qualifying criteria and the outlet to the Europa League have all been geared towards helping the same teams to stay in the tournaments year after year anyway.

Once you get away from the European Cup being an open tournament for the league winners you are then into different degrees of fixing it's make up.

The Real Madrid President is one of those saying the concept of the Champions League is dead. After that, clubs are entitled to set up whatever they want to play whoever they want - but they need to then see the consequences from the other associations they have already joined. That will be the crux of where it goes from here.

The EPL was itself a breakaway, the Champions League was a big deviation away from what it was. This sort of thing has been coming.

Looking at it from the construct of purely the teams being rewarded on the park with a place in a higher level tournament this seems wrong but who says that construct is still the right way to look at football at European level in the future? These teams clearly see that something needed to change for them.

I suspect that the nuclear option of chucking teams out of associations won't work for anyone and that a breakaway of some sort will happen with financial support being handed back down - or UEFA have to make changes to their proposals to get closer to the Super League construct.


Just shows that appeasement doesn’t work.

UEFA undoubtedly got greedy and is a deeply flawed organisation, but you can’t keep brushing off this new proposal as if it’s not a massive break from the past.

The aim is to make this new Super League the pre-eminent club football tournament in Europe, with everything else - national leagues included - demoted to secondary importance.

Wake up and smell the coffee, as the execs pushing this would no doubt say.

[hibsbollah]

Why has nothing been said about media backers? Who s going to broadcast these games? Anyone expecting Amazon or YouTube to walk in and announce some sort of tie up in the next few days? That’s where the money will end up coming from.

[Peevemor]

Imo it’s dull because UEFA got greedy and bowed to pressure from the same ****bag clubs who now want to break away.

I’d love to see a return to the old European Cup format - home and away knock out tournament. Open to winners of national league competitions only.Even the original CL format worked well IMO, with the quarter & semi finals being replaced by 2 groups of 4, the winner of each qualifying for the final.

For me it was a good happy medium.

[WeeRussell]

Why has nothing been said about media backers? Who s going to broadcast these games? Anyone expecting Amazon or YouTube to walk in and announce some sort of tie up in the next few days? That’s where the money will end up coming from.

You would have thought someone is ready lined-up when they’ve made an announcement... but then again, the way all this has been handled I’ve no idea what to think anymore.

[hibsbollah]

You would have thought someone is ready lined-up when they’ve made an announcement... but then again, the way all this has been handled I’ve no idea what to think anymore.

I’m just looking forward to uefa kicking out Chelsea Man City and Real out of the chump ions league semis and awarding the trophy to PSG, that upstanding example of old traditional football values :greengrin

[jacomo]

Why has nothing been said about media backers? Who s going to broadcast these games? Anyone expecting Amazon or YouTube to walk in and announce some sort of tie up in the next few days? That’s where the money will end up coming from.


Maybe they intend to build their own platform and sell direct to fans?

[jacomo]

I’m just looking forward to uefa kicking out Chelsea Man City and Real out of the chump ions league semis and awarding the trophy to PSG, that upstanding example of old traditional football values :greengrin


Who will then announce their intention to join the super league the day after lifting the CL trophy.

[hibsbollah]

Who will then announce their intention to join the super league the day after lifting the CL trophy.

There’s something mad but appropriate about that, I can see it happening!

[Key West]

Interesting that greed is being mentioned when a lot of clubs put out weakened teams in the cup competitions.

[Since452]

This is a really good article, unfortunately behind a paywall: https://theathletic.com/2528673/2021/04/20/bielsas-leeds-are-what-competitive-football-wants-teams-to-be-resurgent-surprising-and-refreshing?source=user-shared-article

"If nothing else, the weekend just gone has drawn the clearest of lines in the sand between those who like to limit the jeopardy in football and those who like the thrill of the chase.

There is no middle ground here.

You either live for a team like Bielsa’s turning over Manchester City with a man less and just over 20 per cent of the possession or you prefer the carve-up of billions through an invitational model. You either accept the lows which accentuate the highs or you choose a life without either. If you love the sport, you can learn to love 16 years of toil outside the Premier League — because there is barely a single Leeds supporter who would deny that these three years of Bielsa made that long, grim trek worthwhile. The misery of the journey helped make the Bielsa story what it is."

Bielsa also spoke well after the game:

“This should not surprise any of us,” Bielsa said, when pressed on the Super League later. “I think there are structures which should limit the excesses of the big teams. The (authorities) could have anticipated these excesses and avoided them. What happened was inevitable. It happens in all walks of life.

“Some teams are bigger than others but they should be conscious of the fact that we need each other. The real owners of clubs are the ones who love the badge. Without them, football will disappear. This is going to generate a huge polemic. Let’s see who talks up in defence of the fans. Any decision which attacks these people is staking the future (of the game).”

Sadly the horse has already bolted so UEFA, FIFA, SkySports etc. are going to struggle to shut the barn door. They could have stopped this years ago but by relentlessly pursuing money over everything else they have created this monster and there's no way back now IMHO.

The only way this could be headed off is by going nuclear and expelling the club's from all local leagues and banning players from international competitions, but that's never going to happen, FIFA don't want a world cup without Messi, Ronaldo, etc. Sadly the reality is that these 12 clubs could probably accept being banned from their national FA's because of the amount of money they are going to make from this league and the fans will still go to games, maybe not the local die hards, but that's not who the owners care about anyway.

What is likely to happen is that the champions League is reformed again to some sort of compromise where certain clubs are guaranteed qualification every season but there's more opportunity for others to qualify and those guaranteed clubs are given a bigger slice of the money. The club's get their money, UEFA gets its flagship competition which is still "open to all" and the fans will be expected to be grateful for what we are getting.

I fell in love with football watching the champions League in the mid 90s, the era of watching players like del piero, kluivert, Davids, ravanelli, etc. Despite being a bit of a Juventus fan I felt a bit happy seeing Dortmund winning in 1997 as it felt like a proper underdog story at the time.

Even the addition of runners up in 1997 felt like a great thing when you saw Newcastle United beating Barcelona (Figo and Rivaldo) with a hat trick from Tino Asprilla. Unfortunately that was the start of the rot, more and more clubs were added to ensure the biggest clubs qualified every year and leading ultimately to where we are now.

Same. It was superb back in the 90's. Even Real Madrid ending their long drought beating Juventus in the final. That's what I loved about it. There was a real intrigue and excitement about European games back then. Two teams from two different countries and two different syles of football. Even enjoyed the cup winners cup, great competition and was always interesting watching teams who were real cup experts go head to head. I know time moves on and all that but seeing three Spanish or English sides in European semi finals just doesn't inrerest me.

[KeithTheHibby]

Imo it’s dull because UEFA got greedy and bowed to pressure from the same ****bag clubs who now want to break away.

I’d love to see a return to the old European Cup format - home and away knock out tournament. Open to winners of national league competitions only.

Used to be a great competition years ago.

I don't bother with the CL now until QF stage. The group games are dull as ****, geared for the top teams to qualify. Even when they draw the last 16 they make sure teams from the same country can't draw each other - why?

I am not against seeding teams, jeez we benefit from such arrangements each year in the league cup however european football is extremely dull from August to March.

[AugustaHibs]

Sport is not a sport when the success is guaranteed, and when the relation between the effort and reward don’t exist. It’s not a sport when it doesn’t matter if you lose. It's not fair if teams fight at the top and cannot qualify”.

Guardiola in his press conference after city told journos he wouldn’t answer questions on the super league. Well done Pep

[CMurdoch]

Who will then announce their intention to join the super league the day after lifting the CL trophy.

The PSG owners have a World Cup to protect hence not currently part of the 12.
Once that is done they will join the breakaway.

[Baader]

Maybe they intend to build their own platform and sell direct to fans?

I would imagine that is what they are reckoning on. Squeeze every last cent out of it.

All the Italian and Spanish clubs are in serious financial trouble.

[SHODAN]

Sport is not a sport when the success is guaranteed, and when the relation between the effort and reward don’t exist. It’s not a sport when it doesn’t matter if you lose. It's not fair if teams fight at the top and cannot qualify”.

Guardiola in his press conference after city told journos he wouldn’t answer questions on the super league. Well done Pep

That means his resignation is pretty much nailed on if City go with this.

[Paul1642]

That means his resignation is pretty much nailed on if City go with this.

Where would he go next? Pochettino will be safe at PSG and most of the other clubs he may have had in mind are signed up to the supper league. Maybe worth requesting odds on him being the next Bayern or Dortmund manger.

[Ozyhibby]

Where would he go next? Pochettino will be safe at PSG and most of the other clubs he may have had in mind are signed up to the supper league. Maybe worth requesting odds on him being the next Bayern or Dortmund manger.

Maybe take time out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SHODAN]

Maybe take time out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, think he'll wait for the right opportunity to come up.

[Greenio]

Well if you don't live in Manchester, or have family ties from there,why are you not supporting your local team? The reason these clubs have got so powerful is because people follow them rather than their local club.

Maybe they don't have a local team, or they do support them.

I feel if i was really into ice hockey then I can I follow the maple leafs if I want, and it doesn't have to be the fife flyers

Its a global game. 'Local' only went long ago I feel

[Stevie Reid]

Guardiola far more strenuous than Klopp in his dismissal of the ESL.

[Ozyhibby]

Maybe they don't have a local team, or they do support them.

I feel if i was really into ice hockey then I can I follow the maple leafs if I want, and it doesn't have to be the fife flyers

Its a global game. 'Local' only went long ago I feel

And I wouldn’t feel bad about that at all because there are no local players in UK ice hockey teams anyway. They sold out long ago and crowds have been falling ever since.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

Guardiola far more strenuous than Klopp in his dismissal of the ESL.


Good on him. He sees it for what it is.

[nonshinyfinish]

The only non-hibs football I watch are international tournaments because they haven’t been destroyed by hypercapitalism.

Don't worry, they're working on it. :aok:

[Stevie Reid]

Good on him. He sees it for what it is.

Yeah, wasn't very impressed with Klopp last night.

[Andy74]

Don't worry, they're working on it. :aok:

Like awarding Qatar the World Cup for example? Think they are more than working on it!

[Since90+2]

Going by the coverage of the proposal on Sky Sports News I think we can safely assume Sky have not been involved in any behind the scene talks about broadcasting this.

My guess is either DAZN or BT are who has been sounded out as the potential broadcaster. Amazon Prime have already confirmed they have not been approached about it.

[nonshinyfinish]

Like awarding Qatar the World Cup for example? Think they are more than working on it!

Indeed.

[Since90+2]

Maybe they don't have a local team, or they do support them.

I feel if i was really into ice hockey then I can I follow the maple leafs if I want, and it doesn't have to be the fife flyers

Its a global game. 'Local' only went long ago I feel

Sorry, don't agree. If you come from Toyko, Beijing, New York, Edinburgh or Glasgow and have no social ties to Manchester/Liverpool then you are not a genuine fan of those clubs.

You can prefer those teams to others but if you've no reason to support those teams other than the fact they are on TV a lot and win most of the time you are not a genuine supporter.

Why do you think Manchester United and Liverpool have more fans around the world than Newcastle and Leeds? It's because they win more often than they lose. That's not supporting a club, that's just picking an entity that you have no social ties with because they win.

[Hibbyradge]

Sorry, don't agree. If you come from Toyko, Beijing, New York, Edinburgh or Glasgow and have no social ties to Manchester/Liverpool then you are not a genuine fan of those clubs.

You can prefer those teams to others but if you've no reason to support those teams other than the fact they are on TV a lot and win most of the time you are not a genuine supporter.

Why do you think Manchester United and Liverpool have more fans around the world than Newcastle and Leeds? It's because they win more often than they lose. That's not supporting a club, that's just picking an entity that you have no social ties with because they win.

I know people from England who have never lived in Scotland who support Hibs.

[GreenPJ]

Sorry, don't agree. If you come from Toyko, Beijing, New York, Edinburgh or Glasgow and have no social ties to Manchester/Liverpool then you are not a genuine fan of those clubs.

You can prefer those teams to others but if you've no reason to support those teams other than the fact they are on TV a lot and win most of the time you are not a genuine supporter.

Why do you think Manchester United and Liverpool have more fans around the world than Newcastle and Leeds? It's because they win more often than they lose. That's not supporting a club, that's just picking an entity that you have no social ties with because they win.

Try telling that to the huge crowds that wait to see one of the English clubs head across to their country to play a glamour friendly. Its not for you or I to determine how someone supports a club - that can be attendance, financial or emotional or all of them but the practicality of getting to a game when you don't live in the same country is clearly a lot harder.

I think its fair to question why they chose a team in the first instance but once they have chosen it then you can't determine whether they are a supporter or not.

In terms of the Super League itself, whilst its clearly wrong it is funny how its being made out that the current structure is great and fair. There is nothing about the current system that is fair, fans have been and will continue to be exploited by clubs from a profit perspective or they have created wage structures that demand they need the income to continue paying 3rd choice goalkeepers £90K a week. The system is flawed and if the concept of a SuperLeague helps highlight that with a change for the better then all the better.

[Yorkshire HFC]

The PSG owners have a World Cup to protect hence not currently part of the 12.
Once that is done they will join the breakaway.

I see a World Cup in Qatar as 100 times worse than a breakaway cup / league - at least that won't result in modern day slavery and numerous deaths to build stadiums that will only be used for a month.

I can't believe that this is still such a big story and that the government is now trying to get involved. The pandemic has reminded me how important entertainment is to us all, but at the end of the day, it's only football - it's just watching other people live out their dreams. As I type this, it's still the lead story on the BBC news - I guess the government think they can gain some popularity from it. Such is the way of the world.

[Since90+2]

I know people from England who have never lived in Scotland who support Hibs.

But they don't support Hibs because they are successful which is the case for a huge amount of Liverpool/Man Utd/Barcelona ect fans around the world.

[hibsbollah]

Sorry, don't agree. If you come from Toyko, Beijing, New York, Edinburgh or Glasgow and have no social ties to Manchester/Liverpool then you are not a genuine fan of those clubs.

You can prefer those teams to others but if you've no reason to support those teams.

Who says they have no reason to support those teams? You?
What total rubbish.

[Hibbyradge]

But they don't support Hibs because they are successful which is the case for a huge amount of Liverpool/Man Utd/Barcelona ect fans around the world.

So it's possible to support unsuccessful teams if you don't have an obvious connection, but not successful ones?

Obviously that's not the case. Folk support teams for all sorts of reasons, success and exposure being the most obvious, but there are an infinite number of other reasons.

We want to increase our support by being successful and our crowds deteriorate when we're failing. It's the same thing just on a different scale.

Folk like winners and winning wherever they come from.

[Since90+2]

So it's possible to support unsuccessful teams if you don't have an obvious connection, but not successful ones?

Obviously that's not the case. Folk support teams for all sorts of reasons, success and exposure being the most obvious, but there are an infinite number of other reasons.

We want to increase our support by being successful and our crowds deteriorate when we're failing. It's the same thing just on a different scale.

Folk like winners and winning wherever they come from.

Of course there will be instances when someone follows a team other than for glory but for these worldwide behemoths a huge part is because they win.

Is it a coincidence that Man City and Chelsea have become clubs with fanbases in the tens of millions worldwide at the same time they have became successful in the last 10/20 years? Of course not.

[hibsbollah]

Of course there will be instances when someone follows a team other than for glory but for these worldwide behemoths a huge part is because they win.

Is it a coincidence that Man City and Chelsea have become clubs with fanbases in the tens of millions worldwide at the same time they have became successful in the last 10/20 years? Of course not.

You said if you come from Tokyo you have no business supporting Man Utd. Despite you not knowing anything about that individuals reasons or otherwise. That just seems very petty and judgemental to me.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Neville made a good point last night.

It’s all about the mobiles, selllibg a product to 150m people world wide at a pound a game, consume it on your phone.

Man U et al, trouser £150m every second week.

Then want to rock up in the Premiership. Joke!

J

That's the end game for the owners of the richest/biggest clubs. They want to control their own broadcasting rights, media rights, image rights etc. They don't want to pool income with other clubs. Spanish TV rights are already dominated by Barcelona and Real Madrid; in England the TV money in the EPL is shared much more equally. The big clubs in the breakaway league believe they generate most of the income and deserve most money. Ultimately they want clubs to own their own broadcasting rights; that's why these foreign owners are involved. They have wanted this all along because the potential revenue is massive for them. In order to get there, they have to destroy the system. It's capitalism taken to its ultimate conclusion: it devours itself when left unregulated. The breakaway clubs want to control their own league - no regulatory body.

[Since90+2]

You said if you come from Tokyo you have no business supporting Man Utd. Despite you not knowing anything about that individuals reasons or otherwise. That just seems very petty and judgemental to me.

I never responded to your first post as you selectively quoted me and added a full stop to my sentence that doesn't exist to make it sound worse than it is.

You've now selectively chosen to only mention Toyko when I also said Edinburgh or Glasgow.

From experience I know the way you tend to like these discussions to go so I'll bow out now and not take part in your petty games any further.

[Hibbyradge]

Of course there will be instances when someone follows a team other than for glory but for these worldwide behemoths a huge part is because they win.

Is it a coincidence that Man City and Chelsea have become clubs with fanbases in the tens of millions worldwide at the same time they have became successful in the last 10/20 years? Of course not.

Of course it is. So what?

More folk support Hibs than supported Meadowbank Thistle or will ever support Edinburgh City.

More support Nottingham Forest than Notts County. Same with Stoke and Port Vale etc etc.

[hibsbollah]

I never responded to your first post as you selectively quoted me and added a full stop to my sentence that doesn't exist to make it sound worse than it is.

You've now selectively chosen to only mention Toyko when I also said Edinburgh or Glasgow.

From experience I know the way you tend to like these discussions to go so I'll bow out now and not take part in your petty games any further.

Yeah, adding a full stop made your post seem waay worse, you've got me there, propos to you:not worth

[whiskyhibby]

Sport is not a sport when the success is guaranteed, and when the relation between the effort and reward don’t exist. It’s not a sport when it doesn’t matter if you lose. It's not fair if teams fight at the top and cannot qualify”.

Guardiola in his press conference after city told journos he wouldn’t answer questions on the super league. Well done Pep


Absolutely, they are in danger of being the footballing equivalent of the Harlem Globetrotters

[CmoantheHibs]

Absolutely, they are in danger of being the footballing equivalent of the Harlem Globetrotters
BBC news said it’s rumoured City are ready to pull out of ESL.

[Hibs90]

https://otf2uploads.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_04/52BB3068-7754-41FD-B591-77CAD13B31B3.thumb.jpeg.307ee56dba48caeb875dee98ba 72525a.jpeg

[Hibs90]

Chelsea fans protesting live stream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvnieFO2sho&ab_channel=SubjectAccess

[WhileTheChief..]

Chelsea pulling out according to Jim White on SSN.

[Paul1642]

Crazy

[Pagan Hibernia]

Chelsea out according to the bbc

[Hibs90]

Chelsea pulled out now

[Hakim Sar]

I’m a Hibs fan. I am also a fairly serious Arsenal fan/supporter whatever you want to call me.

I have my opinions on a Stan Kroenke, but they are not worthwhile sharing on a Hibs forum.

But if Arsenal go ahead with this, and this all actually happens, I will consider them irrevocably tainted and impossible to support.

Football is bigger than my connection with Arsenal. Football must prevail. Arsenal and Stan Kroenke can go and do one!

[The Sundance Kid]

https://twitter.com/migueldelaney/status/1384565264822456327?s=21

[cabbageandribs1875]

and the dominoes will all fall down

[The Spaceman]

Brilliant. Doesn’t feel right but well done Chelsea for doing the right thing at this juncture (although a disgrace it has even been tabled in the first place). This will create a domino effect now and they can kiss goodbye to the idea and take a tonne of bad press and reputational damage with them.

[scoopyboy]

Are Chelsea and Man City talking about pulling out because they don't want scored out the Champion League semis?

[Hibs90]

https://twitter.com/MartinLipton/status/1384568903515377665?s=20

Man City pulling out too

[Hibernia&Alba]

Great news if City and Chelsea are pulling out of this farce. Perhaps the whole thing will now collapse; but, even if it does, all the clubs involved should be punished for breaking FA and UEFA rules which clearly state no clubs can set up alternative competitions without consultation/approval from those bodies.

[Hibs90]

Barcelona next out.

[weecounty hibby]

Some of what I've seen is that the 9ther English clubs feel like they have been stitched up a but bt Manchester United and Liverpool. Never thought I'd say this but we'll done Chelsea.

[jacomo]

I’m a Hibs fan. I am also a fairly serious Arsenal fan/supporter whatever you want to call me.

I have my opinions on a Stan Kroenke, but they are not worthwhile sharing on a Hibs forum.

But if Arsenal go ahead with this, and this all actually happens, I will consider them irrevocably tainted and impossible to support.

Football is bigger than my connection with Arsenal. Football must prevail. Arsenal and Stan Kroenke can go and do one!


Well said.

Next step is to try and force that shark out of Arsenal. This could be the catalyst for a reclaiming of football to some degree.

Let’s hope so.

[jacomo]

Great news if City and Chelsea are pulling out of this farce. Perhaps the whole thing will now collapse; but, even if it does, all the clubs involved should be punished for breaking FA and UEFA rules which clearly state no clubs can set up alternative competitions without consultation/approval from those bodies.


A ban from European competition next season would be very sweet.

[Magpie]

Atletico Madrid also leaving.

[HoboHarry]

Well that fell apart quickly :faf:......

[SHODAN]

Hahaha the whole ****ing thing is falling apart, get ****ed greedy *******s

[Hibs90]

Chelsea, City, Barcelona, Athletico...the rest to follow surely

[Paul1642]

Yeah. That’s that down the toilet if all the reported clubs pull out. Now I just now that UEFA don’t concede anything to these clubs demands for the champions league (although the plans that were approved yesterday are pretty terrible as it is)

[greenlex]

Jobs done. Change will happen. It won’t be for the better.

[Mon Dieu4]

Watch UEFA now go ahead with their own "official" euro league, they are as much a cartel as these clubs

[Hibernia&Alba]

If it does all collapse, it's a great opportunity for those fans who want their foreign owners out to fight back. The American owners in particular are hated by their respective fans, and, without the massive income of a breakaway competition, they might decide to sell up. Then there can changes made about ownership and governance. All to play for here.

[BILLYHIBS]

Every fan needs to be able to hope and dream that even although their team might not be in the first tier of their country’s football league that their team can with a lot of skill, a little bit of luck and a good deal of perseverance win a national cup competition at their national stadium

You just cannot buy that feeling of overcoming all the odds and the sense of achievement

It’s what our national sport is all about

Nothing to do with the European Super League I know but the message is the same

[BroxburnHibee]

Watch UEFA now go ahead with their own "official" euro league, they are as much a cartel as these clubs

Yep including 'invited clubs'

[Paul1642]

Watch UEFA now go ahead with their own "official" euro league, they are as much a cartel as these clubs

Would not be slightly surprised. Just because they opposed the supper league doest make them ant better than the greedy corrupt outfit that they were a few weeks ago.

[green day]

Would not be slightly surprised. Just because they opposed the supper league doest make them ant better than the greedy corrupt outfit that they were a few weeks ago.

They only opposed it because they didn't come up with the idea......

[Pagan Hibernia]

Chelsea, City, Barcelona, Athletico...the rest to follow surely

where are you hearing about Barcelona?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Would not be slightly surprised. Just because they opposed the supper league doest make them ant better than the greedy corrupt outfit that they were a few weeks ago.

Correct. There needs to be huge reforms in football across the board. Money and greed are killing the sport.

[Paul1642]

where are you hearing about Barcelona?

Being reported that they will put it to the fans (who will surely oppose?)

[Pagan Hibernia]

Correct. There needs to be huge reforms in football across the board. Money and greed are killing the sport.

don’t hold your breath. They’ve already pushed through the reforms to the CL with those ridiculous extra positions for historic co-efficient scores

football at that level is only ever going to get worse. It’ll just be gradual, and the top clubs will end up with what they want anyway

[Dalianwanda]

Reported on 5 live the 12 are meeting with a view to disband tonight.

[Paul1642]

Perez will be fuming. Love it :). He has made himself the most hated man in football over the course of a couple of days.

[Hibernia&Alba]

don’t hold your breath. They’ve already pushed through the reforms to the CL with those ridiculous extra positions for historic co-efficient scores

football at that level is only ever going to get worse. It’ll just be gradual, and the top clubs will end up with what they want anyway

I think you're right. However, if this ESL collapses, it could be one last chance to save the game via reforms of club ownership, governance etc.

[Paul1642]

I think you're right. However, if this ESL collapses, it could be one last chance to save the game via reforms of club ownership, governance etc.

Agree. A wake up call that fans need more power.

[Onion]

Are Chelsea and Man City talking about pulling out because they don't want scored out the Champion League semis?

Nah, that would suggest it's more about self interest rather than "for the good of the game".

Hope every one of these 12 clubs get hammered by FIFA, UEFA, governments and opposing fans for bringing the game into disrepute. It cannot be allowed to melt away as if this never happened. These owners need to be neutered, probably by new rules around foreign ownership.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Reported on 5 live the 12 are meeting with a view to disband tonight.

GIRFUY, ye greedy *******. I'd love to see the look on the faces of the likes of the Glazers now. They must be touching cloth about the fallout :hilarious

[Pagan Hibernia]

Reported on 5 live the 12 are meeting with a view to disband tonight.

it’ll be an utterly humiliating climb down for Perez

[hibsbollah]

Watch UEFA now go ahead with their own "official" euro league, they are as much a cartel as these clubs

Rubbish, Cefarino and Infantino are basically Che Guevara and Robin Hood rolled into one :greengrin

[Stuart93]

These owners should be ran out of the clubs. ****.

[hibsbollah]

it’ll be an utterly humiliating climb down for Perez

Agnelli too, Juve have been pushing for a breakaway for years.

[Brightside]

Hibs should enter now. 😂

[AliboyFC]

Hibs should enter now. 😂

Why aye 😂

[Onion]

Watch UEFA now go ahead with their own "official" euro league, they are as much a cartel as these clubs

Sadly, you're 100% right. UEFA were simply concerned about not getting their cut and being in power. They'll now repackage the whole sordid set up and claim victory and the moral high ground... and governments won't give a toss.

This is a watershed for football in England. If the government really believes that clubs are the heart of their community blah blah, then they will now intervene with new ownership rules, tax regime etc to ensure nothing like this happens again - or is introduced through the front door by UEFA.

[Andy74]

At least have the baws to go with it...

Were they really expecting a warm welcome?

[Keyser Sauzee]

These clubs can’t even stand by their convictions, first bit of flack and they are crumbling. It was embarrassing the level of greed to start this fiasco and it’s equally as embarrassing now to see them flee the sinking ship.

[Hibernia&Alba]

These clubs can’t even stand by their convictions, first bit of flack and they are crumbling. It was embarrassing the level of greed to start this fiasco and it’s equally as embarrassing now to see them flee the sinking ship.

Gary Neville said on Sunday the owners of these clubs are spineless bullies who would crumble. Looks like he was right.

But they can't just pretend this never happened. There needs to be punishment and, more importantly, there needs to be reforms about ownership and governance. This has to stop; greedy *******s with no love of the game, no interest in the fans and motivated solely by money have been killing the game for years. Enough is enough.

[DH1875]

I never responded to your first post as you selectively quoted me and added a full stop to my sentence that doesn't exist to make it sound worse than it is.

You've now selectively chosen to only mention Toyko when I also said Edinburgh or Glasgow.

From experience I know the way you tend to like these discussions to go so I'll bow out now and not take part in your petty games any further.

I've been a Hibs fan for over 25 years. Have never lived in Edinburgh and currently live in Glasgow. Glory hunting sod that I am :na na:

[AliboyFC]

Chelsea fans are going mental. Good on them.

[Just_Jimmy]

I've been a Hibs fan for over 25 years. Have never lived in Edinburgh and currently live in Glasgow. Glory hunting sod that I am :na na:grew up in Fife, live in Manchester, never lived in Edinburgh.

glory glory glory [emoji23]

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[Renfrew_Hibby]

grew up in Fife, live in Manchester, never lived in Edinburgh.

glory glory glory [emoji23]

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Ayrshire boy now in Renfrewshire. 1st season ticket when I was 16 (94/95)... Hibs till I die.

[Hibs90]

Ed Woodward RESIGNS

Arsenal OUT

[Vault Boy]

Ed Woodward resigning from his post at United

[calumhibee1]

Hahaha what a shambles :faf:

[Pagan Hibernia]

Spurs clinging on in the hope they might have a chance at winning the thing?

[Vault Boy]

Spanish reporter Xavi Torres now saying all 6 English clubs have backed out, lol

[Hibernia&Alba]

Ed Woodward resigning from his post at United

This just gets better :greengrin:top marks:top marks:top marks

[147lothian]

Man City and Chelsea exit the European Super League, Chelsea have left Man City are filling in the paper work

[B.H.F.C]

Does this finish of the daft idea for good?

We’re always being told it’ll happen eventually, money will talk and so on. But money hasn’t talked here, thankfully.

[cabbageandribs1875]

what a loady nonsense this has all been :greengrin

[Magpie]

Juventus president has also resigned.

[ABZHFC]

A lesson in fan power.

We in Scotland really could have things more our way if we did this kind of thing more often. Especially up here, boards rely on ticket revenue so much. I hope when we return to stadiums better organising takes place to kick out the elements of modern football we despise.

Well done to the fans of all the 'big six', but by god I hope the rest of the league throws the book at their owners. Lifetime bans for them all imo

[hibsbollah]

Juventus president has also resigned.

Wow, hes the Fiat guy, his family has run Juve for 100 years. Scenes.

[ahibby]

what a loady nonsense this has all been :greengrin

Deary me. How such big money could make such a big error in judgement makes you wonder how they made it big in the first place. I wasnt against the initial idea of it but was under the impression that they had their fans onside and were leaving their domestic league. Cant believe they made it all public not knowing if their fans were onside. Unbelievable screw up.

[SHODAN]

Their own hubris has killed them.

This is amazing.

[Lago]

Spanish reporter Xavi Torres now saying all 6 English clubs have backed out, lol
Dead in the water hopefully

[Pagan Hibernia]

Juventus president has also resigned.

hopefully we’ll see a bloodbath at board level in all clubs involved. Metaphorically. ish.

[SHODAN]

Still want all twelve of them punished though. Three season European ban would be nice.

[HoboHarry]

hopefully we’ll see a bloodbath at board level in all clubs involved. Metaphorically. ish.
Might be a few horses worried about their heads :greengrin

[ahibby]

Still want all twelve of them punished though. Three season European ban would be nice.

I like your kind of justice.

[Glory Lurker]

A lesson in fan power.

We in Scotland really could have things more our way if we did this kind of thing more often. Especially up here, boards rely on ticket revenue so much. I hope when we return to stadiums better organising takes place to kick out the elements of modern football we despise.

Well done to the fans of all the 'big six', but by god I hope the rest of the league throws the book at their owners. Lifetime bans for them all imo

I don't think the fans of the big six deserve that much praise. They've played a part in derailing the breakaway but they've been happy enough to lap up success while their clubs have distorted football and fostered the environment where this week's nonsense could even happen.

This applies to fans of many teams in the top European leagues of course (Germany excepted, apart from Leipzig).

[weecounty hibby]

Still want all twelve of them punished though. Three season European ban would be nice.
I honestly think that is a fairly sensible punishment. They 100% deserve to have some form of punishment handed down to them

[Iain G]

Ed Woodward resigning from his post at United

That does mean they may get their **** together 🤣

[ABZHFC]

I don't think the fans of the big six deserve that much praise. They've played a part in derailing the breakaway but they've been happy enough to lap up success while their clubs have distorted football and fostered the environment where this week's nonsense could even happen.

This applies to fans of many teams in the top European leagues of course (Germany excepted, apart from Leipzig).

Oh I agree, particularly their non match-going fans. They undoubtedly have played their part in fostering the conditions for this by demanding their owners spend hundreds of millions on players etc.

However, it was at least good to see their diehards come out and protest so vociferously, a big **** you to all those who think money trumps all

[007]

Man City and Chelsea exit the European Super League, Chelsea have left Man City are filling in the paper work

They said (on Sky Sports I think) yesterday that Chelsea and Man City were unsure about joining it but did because the others were, they didn't want to be left out. A bit of FOMO going on.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I don't think the fans of the big six deserve that much praise. They've played a part in derailing the breakaway but they've been happy enough to lap up success while their clubs have distorted football and fostered the environment where this week's nonsense could even happen.

This applies to fans of many teams in the top European leagues of course (Germany excepted, apart from Leipzig).

that's harsh. Liverpool fans led the way in the ticket prices protests a couple of years ago. United fans fought like hell to stop their club getting taken over by Murdock in 98 (they won that one) and then Glazer.

they do of course have a lot of glory hunting fans, all of them. But their proper support are clued up on issues that matter to all of us.

[Onion]

Deary me. How such big money could make such a big error in judgement makes you wonder how they made it big in the first place. I wasnt against the initial idea of it but was under the impression that they had their fans onside and were leaving their domestic league. Cant believe they made it all public not knowing if their fans were onside. Unbelievable screw up.

Many of these clubs are up to their necks in debt with little prospect of clearing it under current set up. You could argue these owners are simply doing what any normal business would do - try to protect their interests and develop new revenue generating opportunities. Their problem is they think the world is just a big Corporate America and soccer is just another franchise in waiting.

Now they will feel the backlash from all directions.

Wonder how the Man U share price is doing ?

[hibsbollah]

They said (on Sky Sports I think) yesterday that Chelsea and Man City were unsure about joining it but did because the others were, they didn't want to be left out. A bit of FOMO going on.

Ffs sounds like the playground. If he told you to jump off a cliff would you do it? Absolutely pathetic.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I don't think the fans of the big six deserve that much praise. They've played a part in derailing the breakaway but they've been happy enough to lap up success while their clubs have distorted football and fostered the environment where this week's nonsense could even happen.

This applies to fans of many teams in the top European leagues of course (Germany excepted, apart from Leipzig).

As a Man United fan, I have to say the opposition to the Glazers has been fierce. However, they don't care about the fans and have never asked their opinion on anything. So what can they do, other than walk away? Some did, some even set up a phoenix club - FC United - and started from the bottom rung, but still the Glazers are there. Many stopped buying merchandise and boycotted club sponsors. What else can the fans do?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Many of these clubs are up to their necks in debt with little prospect of clearing it under current set up. You could argue these owners are simply doing what any normal business would do - try to protect their interests and develop new revenue generating opportunities. Their problem is they think the world is just a big Corporate America and soccer is just another franchise in waiting.

Now they will feel the backlash from all directions.

Wonder how the Man U share price is doing ?

I hope it's like Wall Street, October 1929. :agree:

[neil7908]

Through hilarity of Chelsea and Man City standing against money in football 😂😂😂😂.

I'll not hold my breath for their fans to start questioning their ownership and how that impacts competitiveness.

[Glory Lurker]

As a Man United fan, I have to say the opposition to the Glazers has been fierce. However, they don't care about the fans and have never asked their opinion on anything. So what can they do, other than walk away? Some did, some even set up a phoenix club - FC United - and started from the bottom rung, but still the Glazers are there. Many stopped buying merchandise and boycotted club sponsors. What else can the fans do?

I'll hopefully never have to find out for sure, but I've often thought that if Hibs were in that position I would walk away.

[neil7908]

Ffs sounds like the playground. If he told you to jump off a cliff would you do it? Absolutely pathetic.

Indeed. This kinda of stuff is amateurish. Shows how out of touch they are.

[Onion]

I hope it's like Wall Street, October 1929. :agree:

Any self respecting financial journo should be looking into the trading activities of the club owners over the last few days :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Funny thing is, if they had just kept on threatening to leave, uefa would have given them their super league over the next few years anyway.
That threat is gone now. I’m blown away by how much of a balls up they have made of this.


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[MWHIBBIES]

Owners should be given 2 options. Leave asap or club gets hammered.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Funny thing is, if they had just kept on threatening to leave, uefa would have given them their super league over the next few years anyway.
That threat is gone now. I’m blown away by how much of a balls up they have made of this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

so do you reckon the Atlantic league pish is dead in the water too?

[Pagan Hibernia]

Owners should be given 2 options. Leave asap or club gets hammered.


:agree:

[007]

Don't worry folks, the Scottish Super League featuring Scotland's big 6 Hibs, Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Dundee United and Brora is still going ahead.

[Ozyhibby]

so do you reckon the Atlantic league pish is dead in the water too?

No. I think the people involved will have learnt a thing or two though. Number 1 is to get your FA and Uefa to ok it.


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[Hibernia&Alba]

Funny thing is, if they had just kept on threatening to leave, uefa would have given them their super league over the next few years anyway.
That threat is gone now. I’m blown away by how much of a balls up they have made of this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, and that offers an opportunity to reform the game that cannot be wasted. The owners of these clubs are now vulnerable; the governing bodies, the fans and even government must turn the screw on them by forcing change.

[Wakeyhibee]

Funny thing is, if they had just kept on threatening to leave, uefa would have given them their super league over the next few years anyway.
That threat is gone now. I’m blown away by how much of a balls up they have made of this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

UEFA were already giving them a halfway house as it was. Astonishing how quickly this is dissipating, I expected more names to be added once the first 12 went public.

[Pagan Hibernia]

No. I think the people involved will have learnt a thing or two though. Number 1 is to get your FA and Uefa to ok it.


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and as incompetent as Scottish football authorities are, when and why would they ever agree to that?

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Owners should be given 2 options. Leave asap or club gets hammered.

Hammer the clubs regardless, huge fines or put to the bottom of the pyramid.

[MWHIBBIES]

Hammer the clubs regardless, huge fines or put to the bottom of the pyramid.

Well, it seems clear the majority of players and employees were against this. Should punish the owners hard, not the workers and players who've done nothing.

[Onion]

Owners should be given 2 options. Leave asap or club gets hammered.

Sadly, they've done nothing illegal so expect little the authorities can do to the clubs - at least nothing that could not be challenged in court. Their biggest problem is the fallout from fans to politicians. These owners will be seen as hostile and mistrusted from now on.

[HoboHarry]

Sadly, they've done nothing illegal so expect little the authorities can do to the clubs - at least nothing that could not be challenged in court. Their biggest problem is the fallout from fans to politicians. These owners will be seen as hostile and mistrusted from now on.
:agree: Exactly, they proposed and tried to implement a new business model and it fell flat. They are looking collectively pretty silly right now so UEFA/FIFA have already won the war....

[basehibby]

Juventus president has also resigned.

Chairmen etc of all clubs involved should be hounded out with their tails between their legs and subjected to booing and barracking from all football fans everywhere forever more.

As for the owners - seems to me they are getting off far too lightly - but how the hell do you hammer these spoilt rotten billionaire types???

[Hibernia&Alba]

Sadly, they've done nothing illegal so expect little the authorities can do to the clubs - at least nothing that could not be challenged in court. Their biggest problem is the fallout from fans to politicians. These owners will be seen as hostile and mistrusted from now on.

Attempting to establish a breakaway league without permission from the FA and UEFA is clearly a breach of the terms of membership.

[Pagan Hibernia]

:agree: Exactly, they proposed and tried to implement a new business model and it fell flat. They are looking collectively pretty silly right now so UEFA/FIFA have already won the war....

yeah, UEFA will be the real winners here, not the fans. They’ve humiliated the breakaway clubs, consolidated their own power and wealth, probably buried the super league for a long time. They’ll be feeling pretty smug tonight.

the worst part of this is that they’ll have somehow managed to convince the more gullible fans that they’re the good guys

[jacomo]

Watch UEFA now go ahead with their own "official" euro league, they are as much a cartel as these clubs


Yes although my hope is that this has now awakened a clamour from fans to reform football for the better.

[jacomo]

Yes, and that offers an opportunity to reform the game that cannot be wasted. The owners of these clubs are now vulnerable; the governing bodies, the fans and even government must turn the screw on them by forcing change.


:agree:

[HoboHarry]

Yes, and that offers an opportunity to reform the game that cannot be wasted. The owners of these clubs are now vulnerable; the governing bodies, the fans and even government must turn the screw on them by forcing change.
The governing bodies have driven the race to money grabbing on an absurd scale - the 12 breakaway clubs were simply following the same pattern. UEFA and FIFA have just had their hand strengthened and the race for even more money will continue unabated.

[Ozyhibby]

and as incompetent as Scottish football authorities are, when and why would they ever agree to that?

If it can be shown to benefit the game in Scotland where more of our top players can play in Scotland then maybe they will agree to it? I wouldn’t rule it out that it still happens.


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[147lothian]

How is the super league with Hearts Inverness and Stranraer getting on?

[Hibernia&Alba]

The governing bodies have driven the race to money grabbing on an absurd scale - the 12 breakaway clubs were simply following the same pattern. UEFA and FIFA have just had their hand strengthened and the race for even more money will continue unabated.

In which case the game is lost once and for all. This could be the moment when there is one final chance to reverse that trend, but it requires cooperation amongst many groups. This could be October 1917, comrades :greengrin

[Jones28]

I’ve been out the loop, this is absolutely superb.

“Saving football”😂

Are the North London clubs staying in with a hope of winning it..?

[The Baldmans Comb]

Strong statements from the English politicians today who weren't going to be making things at all easy.

Opportunism of course but the English clubs began to see a juggernaught coming towards them from all conceivable sides.

It will all fall apart now and UEFA don't need to bend over and take it any longer and should pull back on their own reconstruction such as the offensive "wildcards" into the Champions League from 2024.

[Pagan Hibernia]

In which case the game is lost once and for all. This could be the moment when there is one final chance to reverse that trend, but it requires cooperation amongst many groups. This could be October 1917, comrades :greengrin

id rather it was July 1936 :greengrin

[007]

How is the super league with Hearts Inverness and Stranraer getting on?

They're inviting Brora and Alloa to play in next season's tournament as they've proved themselves to be of the required standard.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Strong statements from the English politicians today who weren't going to be making things at all easy.

Opportunism of course but the English clubs began to see a juggernaught coming towards them from all conceivable sides.

It will all fall apart now and UEFA don't need to bend over and take it any longer and should pull back on their own reconstruction such as the offensive "wildcards" into the Champions League from 2024.

they absolutely should do that, in particular the invitational places to clubs with high co-efficient scores. That was a deliberate concession to the ‘elite’ clubs and should be done away with immediately as punishment.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Looks like that's it: all finished within three days. There has to be consequences for the criminals who own these clubs.

[SteveHFC]

Liverpool confirmed they’re out

[Magpie]

All English clubs now out.

[Hibernia&Alba]

These owners should be jailed for this.

[weecounty hibby]

So not only are they complete crooks who tried to con the public they are also total *****bags! It was a total disgrace what they tried to do but they haven't even got the courage of their convictions.

[Stuart93]

All running back with their tails between their legs trying to make out as though, in the end, they listened to their fans. They don’t give a flying **** about the fans or their opinions.

[marinello59]

So not only are they complete crooks who tried to con the public they are also total *****bags! It was a total disgrace what they tried to do but they haven't even got the courage of their convictions.

Gary Neville called it when it was first announced. Bottle merchants.

[Vault Boy]

From what I've seen only Daniel Levy has actually made a statement attributed to him personally.

[Pagan Hibernia]

The statements are amusing to say the least.

an apology from arsenal, united and Liverpool have “listened to their fans and other stakeholders”. F*** me that’s good of them!

[Hibbyradge]

These owners should be jailed for this.

And the pitchfork award for the best hyperbolic overreaction goes to...:greengrin

I think it's a thing in this country that you have to have been caught after committing a crime (or be framed for one) then stand trial and be found guilty of said crime before being imprisoned.

[WeeRussell]

Well, it seems clear the majority of players and employees were against this. Should punish the owners hard, not the workers and players who've done nothing.

But didn’t you say you want to hammer the clubs (presumably includes the workers and players who have done nothing wrong) if they get stuck with the owners?

[Hibernia&Alba]

And the pitchfork award for the best hyperbolic overreaction goes to...:greengrin

I think it's a thing in this country that you have to have been caught after committing a crime (or be framed for one) then stand trial and be found guilty of said crime before being imprisoned.

Well I didn't mean it literally. However, the Glazers in jail....in solitary....waterbaorded...subjected to cruel and unusual punishment....aye, okay :greengrin

[HoboHarry]

All running back with their tails between their legs trying to make out as though, in the end, they listened to their fans. They don’t give a flying **** about the fans or their opinions.

You might be right there but the same could be said of UEFA and FIFA.

[Ozyhibby]

It will all be forgotten about in a week and business as usual. They’ll even get to keep their wildcard champions league places.


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[Bristolhibby]

Well I didn't mean it literally. However, the Glazers in jail....in solitary....waterbaorded...subjected to cruel and unusual punishment....aye, okay :greengrin

Careful, the Huns will be along in a minute to call for your head.

J

[Hibbyradge]

Well I didn't mean it literally. However, the Glazers in jail....in solitary....waterbaorded...subjected to cruel and unusual punishment....aye, okay :greengrin

Why didn't you say that in the first place? :rolleyes:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Careful, the Huns will be along in a minute to call for your head.

J

They did that the first time I saw Hibs play them :greengrin

[ScottB]

When we get the inevitable, full, behind the scenes story of this, it’s going to be a hell of a read...

[Hibernia&Alba]

When we get the inevitable, full, behind the scenes story of this, it’s going to be a hell of a read...

Aye, the same people who negotiated the new champions league format, which would further benefit their own clubs anyway, were, behind the scenes organising to leave anyway and using the UEFA information to help plan their breakaway league. Talk about duplicity and betrayal. If only football had been around in Shakespeare's day!

[007]

It will all be forgotten about in a week and business as usual. They’ll even get to keep their wildcard champions league places.


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A Champions League wildcard you say? Maybe we'll get picked, you know like in X-Factor when Louis Walsh brings back Jedward.

[Ozyhibby]

Aye, the same people who negotiated the new champions league format, which would further benefit their own clubs anyway, were, behind the scenes organising to leave anyway and using the UEFA information to help plan their breakaway league. Talk about duplicity and betrayal. If only football had been around in Shakespeare's day!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210420/8ade78cdec7d1c84342266c5d0b180fd.jpg


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[Smartie]

I’ve long lost interest in the English Premier League and Chsmpions league, but the last few days have been hilarious and thoroughly entertaining.

[CloudSquall]

It's got to the point I'd rather watch a Sunday league game Vs the corporate guff on TV these days.

[JohnM1875]

All six premier league teams withdraw from the proposed Super League.

[lord bunberry]

If it can be shown to benefit the game in Scotland where more of our top players can play in Scotland then maybe they will agree to it? I wouldn’t rule it out that it still happens.


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There’s no chance the spfl or the sfa would agree to that. They have a duty to look after the interests of all clubs, it would go to a vote and it would have zero chance of getting through. Why would any team not involved vote to reduce its standing and influence in the game.

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210420/8ade78cdec7d1c84342266c5d0b180fd.jpg


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Would Hibs be included? :greengrin

[pollution]

Would Hibs be included? :greengrin

For once we fans were listened to.

Greed lost this time !

[TObeachesHibby]

As an old Hibby (53years and counting) who has lived and worked all over the world, the one thing that unites everybody (even in Covid times) is your footie team. The events that have happened in the last 48+ hours have absorbed everybody, including people who are not even into "the beautiful game" Today
my son Adam (Chelsea fan since 3years old ....loved Petr Cech) who is 15 today went for a walk (that is all you can do in Toronto hmmm) and we talked about it . It is not even 3 years since we were both at ER watching the Hibs against Molde in the Europa League as part of a footie trip that involved 5 of the EPL big 6. Molde have since gone on to play in the Champions league .. 24 games is the total according to Wikipedia ! Were Molde or Hibs not entitled to reach for the higher league just like any other team?
That is the whole point of the pyramid system, even from U-11 onwards, teams get good and they get promoted , teams get bad and get relegated . Any Mum or Dad who has watched their kids play footie through the age groups understands this . What we saw over the last 2-3 days was an arbitrary attempt by Chief Executives in TEMPORARY control of famous (even more famous than HMFC with their 400,000 supporters) clubs to set a course without consensus with their own team , coaches, shareholders and above all their fans. Woodward, the Glazers ,Fenway Group and others I forget to mention deserve all the criticism coming to them . I have lived in Toronto for 22+ years and there is no way a collective group of teams would attempt such an audacious money on grab US sports leagues (NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB) . The US leagues may not have relegation, but they do have salary cap and first draft pick to the worst teams. At least it evens up the teams chances of winning everything. Hell even the Raptors won the NBA after being REALLY BAD for years before that. The Super league never even gave smaller, poorer teams that option . It was an arbitrary choice of teams , determined not by present performance or even recent past performance. Why not have Ajax (4 times winners, best youth program in Europe) , Borussia Dortmund(Haaland ?) , Leicester (EPL winners , 3rd in league) and many more teams who have a better record into the top league ?

[Yorkshire HFC]

And the pitchfork award for the best hyperbolic overreaction goes to...:greengrin

I think it's a thing in this country that you have to have been caught after committing a crime (or be framed for one) then stand trial and be found guilty of said crime before being imprisoned.

Businessmen in "let's try and make loads of money" shock. At the end of the day, that's all they did.

No different from charging £50 for a shirt, from playing games at noon on a Sunday to suit a bigger tv audience, to awarding a World Cup in Qatar, to letting the bigger countries have 4 teams in the CL etc. etc.

I hope this doesn't deflect from all the things that are wrong with the game at the moment.

[MWHIBBIES]

But didn’t you say you want to hammer the clubs (presumably includes the workers and players who have done nothing wrong) if they get stuck with the owners?

Yes, if the owners refuse to sell you must punish them somehow. Just my first choice wouldn't be to punish the clubs. If you do it like this, it puts massive pressure on owners.

[jacomo]

Businessmen in "let's try and make loads of money" shock. At the end of the day, that's all they did.

No different from charging £50 for a shirt, from playing games at noon on a Sunday to suit a bigger tv audience, to awarding a World Cup in Qatar, to letting the bigger countries have 4 teams in the CL etc. etc.

I hope this doesn't deflect from all the things that are wrong with the game at the moment.


There’s a fundamental difference between trying to make money within the rules of the game, and trying to change the rules of the game because you want to be even richer.

This applies in all walks of life. Stop being blinkered to what’s happening here.

[Dalianwanda]

There’s a fundamental difference between trying to make money within the rules of the game, and trying to change the rules of the game because you want to be even richer.

This applies in all walks of life. Stop being blinkered to what’s happening here.

Exactly!

I’m still a bit sceptical over the whole thing & the fact that UEFA got their new competition in without anyone paying attention.

[jacomo]

Exactly!

I’m still a bit sceptical over the whole thing & the fact that UEFA got their new competition in without anyone paying attention.


My hope is that UEFA and FIFA now come under serious scrutiny after this.

If Real Madrid and Juve want to resign from all other competitions and set up their own special relationship league, let them. The threat of a serious breakaway led by the richest clubs in Europe is dead, for now.

This is an opportunity for positive reform.

[Keith_M]

So, it was all just a diversion tactic?

[SHODAN]

https://i.imgur.com/D1qnYTC.png

Lol

[WeeRussell]

Yes, if the owners refuse to sell you must punish them somehow. Just my first choice wouldn't be to punish the clubs. If you do it like this, it puts massive pressure on owners.

I agree, I would prefer if the owners were the only ones that were reprimanded but not sure how realistic it is to punish owners without effecting the club with something like this.

[jacomo]

Why didn't you say that in the first place? :rolleyes:


Someone using hyperbole on a football forum?

Well I am SHOCKED. Never mind the super league, something should be done about this.

[The Baldmans Comb]

Agnelli of Juventus saying today that the behind the scenes political pressure was immense and it was made clear immediately that every obstacle possible was going to put in the ESL way.

It will be sold as 'bowing to fan pressure" but European and English politicians played "an absolute blinder' here.✅

UEFA aren't the heroes but they are the major beneficiaries and they know have a golden opportunity to bring some sanity and fairness into European football competitions.

[Smartie]

Agnelli of Juventus saying today that the behind the scenes political pressure was immense and it was made clear immediately that every obstacle possible was going to put in the ESL way.

It will be sold as 'bowing to fan pressure" but European and English politicians played "an absolute blinder' here.✅

UEFA aren't the heroes but they are the major beneficiaries and they know have a golden opportunity to earn a grubby little fortune themselves now this has been kicked into touch.

Fixed that for you.

[Andy74]

There’s a fundamental difference between trying to make money within the rules of the game, and trying to change the rules of the game because you want to be even richer.

This applies in all walks of life. Stop being blinkered to what’s happening here.

I don’t think that’s true.

The previous changes to the champions League for example were changes to the rules and were designed to make the regular participant clubs richer and to perpetuate their involvement in it. They got further changes in this week that also change the rules so that teams that finish lower than other teams but have a good record will get in instead.

So, let’s not pretend rules don’t get changed.

In any case this wasn’t an attempt really to change the rules, it was an attempt to not enter one competition and instead create another, with rules that the group who want to join are entitled to set.

It didn’t work but that is not to say that the concept that there is a European competition that you get into by finishing high up in your league needs to stand forever.

There was a big reaction, i think a lot of it was over reaction that really didn’t fit what was actually being proposed.

[blackpoolhibs]

I personally think they deserve some sort of punishment. 3year ban from Europe sounds about right to me.

The shameful 6 have been so deceitful, going behind everyones back while knowing what deals the 20 clubs have in the pipeline.

The should either back up their views now, or accept what punishment is forthcoming and STFU.

[nonshinyfinish]

I don’t think that’s true.

The previous changes to the champions League for example were changes to the rules and were designed to make the regular participant clubs richer and to perpetuate their involvement in it. They got further changes in this week that also change the rules so that teams that finish lower than other teams but have a good record will get in instead.

So, let’s not pretend rules don’t get changed.

In any case this wasn’t an attempt really to change the rules, it was an attempt to not enter one competition and instead create another, with rules that the group who want to join are entitled to set.

It didn’t work but that is not to say that the concept that there is a European competition that you get into by finishing high up in your league needs to stand forever.

There was a big reaction, i think a lot of it was over reaction that really didn’t fit what was actually being proposed.

I partly agree with this, in that the various changes that led to the existing CL have often been to skew things further in favour of the elite, and that the direction of travel for future changes (the 'Swiss' setup with expanded groups, 'historical' coefficients to make it less likely that elite teams don't qualify, etc) appear to lead to a pretty similar place to the proposed ESL.

If people are angry about the ESL, I think they should be equally angry about those changes. If UEFA are left to their own devices, I think there's a reasonable chance we'll end up with more or less the same thing eventually, just still under UEFA's control and with the changes happening incrementally.

I'm not sure I agree it was an over-reaction though – if someone was saying 'the current CL is great and fair, the ESL would be unfair' then, yes, that's an over-reaction and divorced from reality. However, where the main objection was to the concept of certain teams having guaranteed entry, I don't think it's an over-reaction. I think the strength of outcry is partly because it was proposed as a single big change – in theory it shouldn't make any difference, but in reality a single sudden change is easy for people to contrast with the current situation (and with whatever they view as the ideal situation), whereas UEFA's incremental changes are less likely to cross a single point where there is broad simultaneous agreement that it's a bad thing. This makes it harder for any form of opposition or protest to coalesce. The phrase 'boiling a frog' springs to mind.

[jacomo]

I don’t think that’s true.

The previous changes to the champions League for example were changes to the rules and were designed to make the regular participant clubs richer and to perpetuate their involvement in it. They got further changes in this week that also change the rules so that teams that finish lower than other teams but have a good record will get in instead.

So, let’s not pretend rules don’t get changed.

In any case this wasn’t an attempt really to change the rules, it was an attempt to not enter one competition and instead create another, with rules that the group who want to join are entitled to set.

It didn’t work but that is not to say that the concept that there is a European competition that you get into by finishing high up in your league needs to stand forever.

There was a big reaction, i think a lot of it was over reaction that really didn’t fit what was actually being proposed.


I’m not for a minute suggesting the current set up is perfect or particularly fair. Both UEFA and FIFA are corrupt in my view.

I am, however, pleased that for once fans seem to have halted the seemingly relentless power and money grab by the richest clubs.

You seem desperate to cast doubt on every single concern people have expressed.

Again, I’d like to ask if you have a vested interest here, because many of your comments on here seem like trolling.

[Scouse Hibee]

All six premier league teams withdraw from the proposed Super League.

Which was inevitable, it was never getting off the ground.

[007]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210420/8ade78cdec7d1c84342266c5d0b180fd.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Would Hibs be included? :greengrin

Us and Brora.

[Andy74]

I’m not for a minute suggesting the current set up is perfect or particularly fair. Both UEFA and FIFA are corrupt in my view.

I am, however, pleased that for once fans seem to have halted the seemingly relentless power and money grab by the richest clubs.

You seem desperate to cast doubt on every single concern people have expressed.

Again, I’d like to ask if you have a vested interest here, because many of your comments on here seem like trolling.

That’s a bit of a bizarre question / comment.

I just happen to like to look at both sides of things and occasionally to challenge what is really behind thinking. I don’t really think I’ve engaged much on this thread and the trolling comment is a bit pathetic.

The over reaction bit I think is that it has been taken that this was an attempt to completely change football, including domestically, and that things like winning, losing, promotion, relegation were being challenged.

It wasn’t really all about that - it was purely about replacing the participation in the Champions League - which as a few have agreed with has itself changed the rules before to look after certain clubs.

As I said earlier I don’t think suggesting that in future there doesn’t have to be a big European tournament that you qualify for by your league placing is that controversial. Nothing really stays relevant forever.

There was a huge reaction, they backed down quickly. Perhaps with a bit more of a careful lead in and some measured discussion on it then the point about whether the Champions League was still a relevant thing in itself would have led to better context for then moving on to alternative proposals.

[jacomo]

That’s a bit of a bizarre question / comment.

I just happen to like to look at both sides of things and occasionally to challenge what is really behind thinking. I don’t really think I’ve engaged much on this thread and the trolling comment is a bit pathetic.

The over reaction bit I think is that it has been taken that this was an attempt to completely change football, including domestically, and that things like winning, losing, promotion, relegation were being challenged.

It wasn’t really all about that - it was purely about replacing the participation in the Champions League - which as a few have agreed with has itself changed the rules before to look after certain clubs.

As I said earlier I don’t think suggesting that in future there doesn’t have to be a big European tournament that you qualify for by your league placing is that controversial. Nothing really stays relevant forever.

There was a huge reaction, they backed down quickly. Perhaps with a bit more of a careful lead in and some measured discussion on it then the point about whether the Champions League was still a relevant thing in itself would have led to better context for then moving on to alternative proposals.


You’re back to saying things that are factually untrue. The proposal was a direct challenge to the principle of promotion / relegation. It was akin to an American franchise model with a closed league, perhaps augmented with a few guest clubs each season.

Seems like everyone else can see this, why can’t you? You either have a huge blind spot here or are simply at it.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

https://i.imgur.com/D1qnYTC.png

Lol


24604

[Hibbyradge]

Someone using hyperbole on a football forum?

Well I am SHOCKED. Never mind the super league, something should be done about this.

I was joking.

[Andy74]

You’re back to saying things that are factually untrue. The proposal was a direct challenge to the principle of promotion / relegation. It was akin to an American franchise model with a closed league, perhaps augmented with a few guest clubs each season.

Seems like everyone else can see this, why can’t you? You either have a huge blind spot here or are simply at it.

Nah, and your suggestion I had a vested interest in a European Super League was beyond bizarre.

What I said was factually true.

You don’t get promoted or relegated from European competition. As it stands you qualify based on your league position.

Comments similar to yours have given the impression they were trying to change football from having promotion or relegation. It wouldn’t have domestically.

Qualifying by league position is just the way that European competition works just now. That doesn’t mean it will work that way forever. If the competing clubs think at some stage that it has run its course then another type of competition with different rules to get in is possible.

I wouldn’t set it up that way but I think the reaction is a bit out of proportion when it was just about a different way of having a European competition.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Nah, and your suggestion I had a vested interest in a European Super League was beyond bizarre.

What I said was factually true.

You don’t get promoted or relegated from European competition. As it stands you qualify based on your league position.

Comments similar to yours have given the impression they were trying to change football from having promotion or relegation. It wouldn’t have domestically.

Qualifying by league position is just the way that European competition works just now. That doesn’t mean it will work that way forever. If the competing clubs think at some stage that it has run its course then another type of competition with different rules to get in is possible.

I wouldn’t set it up that way but I think the reaction is a bit out of proportion when it was just about a different way of having a European competition.

It was completely different. The twelve founding clubs would run it themselves for their own benefit. Those twelve would always be involved, regardless of their domestic league position. They had taken it upon themselves to decide they were the most important clubs in Europe and they would be involved no matter what, 'inviting' five other clubs each year, based upon God know what criteria. That's what would have destroyed the pyramid system. Arsenal, for example, finish tenth in the league but are still in the Super League. They would each have an additional 400 million euros per year, keeping all income between themselves, which they then wanted to use to further destroy any competition in their domestic leagues.

I think the outrage has been fully justified. It would have dismantled the game we know, which is already skewed in the favour of the richest.

[Andy74]

It was completely different. The twelve founding clubs would run it themselves for their own benefit. Those twelve would always be involved, regardless of their domestic league position. They had taken it upon themselves to decide they were the most important clubs in Europe and they would be involved no matter what, 'inviting' five other clubs each year, based upon God know what criteria. They would each have an additional 400 million euros per year, keeping all income between themselves, which they then wanted to use to further destroy any competition in their domestic leagues.

I think the outrage has been fully justified. It would have dismantled the game we know, which is already skewed in the favour of the richest.

Yes, completely different, of course.

The Champions League might last forever, and people might watch it in numbers forever. They might not though and it could be that a tournament played by clubs who have decided they are the biggest playing in a league set up is something that replaces it instead.

The issue has been comparing like for like - it is a step away from a tournament you qualified for by league placing to something else. Yes, something totally different.

The point about making even more money is a fair one - but the EPL and Champions League already started that one running a long time ago.

[ballengeich]

The proposal was a direct challenge to the principle of promotion / relegation. It was akin to an American franchise model with a closed league, perhaps augmented with a few guest clubs each season.


Yes, and they'll be back with a more subtle proposition before too long. Meanwhile the ever-increasing dominance of the English league will continue to progress.

[WeeRussell]

I don’t think that’s true.

The previous changes to the champions League for example were changes to the rules and were designed to make the regular participant clubs richer and to perpetuate their involvement in it. They got further changes in this week that also change the rules so that teams that finish lower than other teams but have a good record will get in instead.

So, let’s not pretend rules don’t get changed.

In any case this wasn’t an attempt really to change the rules, it was an attempt to not enter one competition and instead create another, with rules that the group who want to join are entitled to set.

It didn’t work but that is not to say that the concept that there is a European competition that you get into by finishing high up in your league needs to stand forever.

There was a big reaction, i think a lot of it was over reaction that really didn’t fit what was actually being proposed.

If the reaction didn’t fit what was being proposed - why didn’t those involved come out and explain what they were proposing, rather than ****ting out of it and withdrawing within a couple of days?

Shower of cowardly, greedy b****ards tried to push through their own agenda to make a few extra quid without any regard for the game or the people that matter within it. Remaining faceless and gutless throughout.

Like another poster alluded to, I find it strange you’re STILL trying to defend them and brush-off their actions as no different to anything else we’ve seen in football.

[Andy74]

If the reaction didn’t fit what was being proposed - why didn’t those involved come out and explain what they were proposing, rather than ****ting out of it and withdrawing within a couple of days?

Shower of cowardly, greedy b****ards tried to push through their own agenda to make a few extra quid without any regard for the game or the people that matter within it. Remaining faceless and gutless throughout.

Like another poster alluded to, I find it strange you’re STILL trying to defend them and brush-off their actions as no different to anything else we’ve seen in football.

They probably should have, but they didn’t go about this very well, clearly.

They possibly should have just said what they wanted to do - scrap the champions League as we don’t see anyone caring about it long term and we’d prefer to use the midweeks to do something totally different and play a tournament with some invited teams as we think that will be popular in the future.

That’s it really wasn’t it? They weren’t trying to stop all the other fundamental things that people love about football across every other competition that would still be played.

[WeeRussell]

They probably should have, but they didn’t go about this very well, clearly.

They possibly should have just said what they wanted to do - scrap the champions League as we don’t see anyone caring about it long term and we’d prefer to use the midweeks to do something totally different and play a tournament with some invited teams as we think that will be popular in the future.

That’s it really wasn’t it? They weren’t trying to stop all the other fundamental things that people love about football across every other competition that would still be played.

Okay I’ll play along a bit longer...

It was reported that they wanted to see LESS football, not more. How does that work if they wanted to keep all the traditional competitions. Also noted that they would be “secretly delighted” if players were banned from playing in world cups and euro competitions.

In addition it was admitted “maximising revenue and profit is our priority. The good of the game is secondary.”

I’m not sure if you just enjoy debate that much that you’re deliberately failing to see 99.9% of the footballing world’s point of view?

[Andy74]

Okay I’ll play along a bit longer...

It was reported that they wanted to see LESS football, not more. How does that work if they wanted to keep all the traditional competitions. Also noted that they would be “secretly delighted” if players were banned from playing in world cups and euro competitions.

In addition it was admitted “maximising revenue and profit is our priority. The good of the game is secondary.”

I’m not sure if you just enjoy debate that much that you’re deliberately failing to see 99.9% of the footballing world’s point of view?

On the last point, yes, but most of the world are idiots so that doesn’t bother me. :greengrin

I do see the view but also that it got taken to degrees that weren’t there. Scrapping relegation and promotion is still being talked about on this thread and has nothing to do with this.

Most of football is about maximising revenue - have people just clocked this during this week?

Never thought the Champions League would be so popular.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Good stuff rom John Barnes: did the fans stop the ESL?


https://youtu.be/DFO3vzH3yug

[JeMeSouviens]

UEFA coming under pressure to change some of the ***** they were bringing in to try and keep the Super-Duper clubs happy (which didn't work anyway, obvs).

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/21/uefa-could-be-forced-to-alter-champions-league-plans-amid-backlash-super-league

[jacomo]

They probably should have, but they didn’t go about this very well, clearly.

They possibly should have just said what they wanted to do - scrap the champions League as we don’t see anyone caring about it long term and we’d prefer to use the midweeks to do something totally different and play a tournament with some invited teams as we think that will be popular in the future.

That’s it really wasn’t it? They weren’t trying to stop all the other fundamental things that people love about football across every other competition that would still be played.


I think you’re very credulous, truth be told. The implications of the super league are pretty clear and have been explored extensively in recent days. Most fans saw it for what it was.

Anyhow, I’ve said enough on this. I’m back to my job, which allows me to work from home for only five days a month and earns me on average £300k a year. It’s so easy and anyone could do it. Let me know if you want in.

:wink:

[Onion]

Love this bit from Perez ...

"Perez reiterated his view that the ESL was created "to save football", having also previously said the move had been made because young people were "no longer interested in football" because of "a lot of poor quality games".

Football doesn't need saving. Some of the greediest clubs do. But that's a Hell of their own making.

He thinks the game should be distilled into a handful of exhibition matches between the top 12-15 clubs to try reengage the paying TV audience. So where do you go once "young people" get bored of that, as they surely will ? It is a slap in the jaw to all those attending fans who have supported these clubs for decades and arguably have been just as important as the players in making football the exciting game it is. Let the Super League try selling their proposition without crowds !

This guy is a tool, completely out of touch with football and what it means to all those who attend games week in week out. He's the very last person the game needs at the helm.

[Onion]

UEFA coming under pressure to change some of the ***** they were bringing in to try and keep the Super-Duper clubs happy (which didn't work anyway, obvs).

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/21/uefa-could-be-forced-to-alter-champions-league-plans-amid-backlash-super-league

The less than veiled threat of breakaway by these clubs over the last few years has pushed UEFA along a path to destruction of the game. Now that the teeth of these 12 clubs have been pulled, UEFA is free to do the right thing for the good of the game as a whole. The Dirty Dozen will HATE that as it will reduce their revenue, but they're snookered.

[Pagan Hibernia]

At the very least they should scrap the additional co-efficient places as punishment.

and also because it would be the right thing to do.

[jacomo]

Love this bit from Perez ...

"Perez reiterated his view that the ESL was created "to save football", having also previously said the move had been made because young people were "no longer interested in football" because of "a lot of poor quality games".

Football doesn't need saving. Some of the greediest clubs do. But that's a Hell of their own making.

He thinks the game should be distilled into a handful of exhibition matches between the top 12-15 clubs to try reengage the paying TV audience. So where do you go once "young people" get bored of that, as they surely will ? It is a slap in the jaw to all those attending fans who have supported these clubs for decades and arguably have been just as important as the players in making football the exciting game it is. Let the Super League try selling their proposition without crowds !

This guy is a tool, completely out of touch with football and what it means to all those who attend games week in week out. He's the very last person the game needs at the helm.


If they want more young people to watch football, make it less expensive.

If that means Perez can’t sign Mbappe for €200m on wages of €1m a week... **** him.

Perez is an absolute parasite.

[CMurdoch]

Good stuff rom John Barnes: did the fans stop the ESL?


https://youtu.be/DFO3vzH3yug

Lots of great stuff on the wider issues in that rant. Well said JB.
As he said the fans did not win.

[Baader]

If they want more young people to watch football, make it less expensive.

If that means Perez can’t sign Mbappe for €200m on wages of €1m a week... **** him.

Perez is an absolute parasite.

He's a self serving narcissist and a liar. Saving football, making out it's what fans want, what does Perez understand about young people in relation to football? It was a ploy for these clubs - most of them massively in debt due to financial mismanagement, to balance the books and nothing more. No doubt the next best thing for football would be to split the games into quarters for more advertising space. When you find yourself siding with FIFA and UEFA you know something is very, very wrong.

[MWHIBBIES]

Young people do watch football, we all just stream it for free. **** paying those prices.