Scottish Election 2021

[SHODAN]

About time it had its own thread! Our polling cards came through today, which I found a bit odd as I'm a registered postal voter.

[lapsedhibee]

About time it had its own thread! Our polling cards came through today, which I found a bit odd as I'm a registered postal voter.

Poll? :dunno:

[StevieC]

About time it had its own thread! Our polling cards came through today, which I found a bit odd as I'm a registered postal voter.

If you are a postal voter the polling card should just be confirming that you are a postal voter and giving the date you should expect your polling paper posted out.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210325/066d114bdae811fdcc5bc9dc2d116d97.jpg
Polling by age group. Lib Dem’s are going to just disappear soon as their voters die off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SHODAN]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210325/066d114bdae811fdcc5bc9dc2d116d97.jpg
Polling by age group. Lib Dem’s are going to just disappear soon as their voters die off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tories too.

It's honestly quite remarkable that even amongst 65+ the SNP are STILL the largest party. They would wreck FPTP.

[Keith_M]

That's amazing the percentage of older people that intend to vote Tory.


Do people's views just become more 'right wing' as they get older?

:dunno:

[Ozyhibby]

That's amazing the percentage of older people that intend to vote Tory.


Do people's views just become more 'right wing' as they get older?

:dunno:

Yes, unfortunately. I don’t think it’s the same dynamic with support for the union though. I think currents pensioners affection for that will die with them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Keith_M]

Yes, unfortunately. I don’t think it’s the same dynamic with support for the union though. I think currents pensioners affection for that will die with them.




I certainly hope so.


p.s. I've just moved into the second oldest age range on that graph and (up until February) was in the higher rate of tax payers but would never dream of voting Tory.

[cabbageandribs1875]

my thoughts for the older ones voting tory are that they very much benefit from free prescriptions in Scotland, and because of that irresponsible bare-faced lying dinosaur Gordon ******* Brown they think they would lose out on their pensions, they think they've got the best of both worlds being mastered by Westminster and freebies from a Scottish Parliament, a heck of a lot of them won't even realise they have one of the lowest pensions in Europe. they need to realise Tories want to destroy Devolution....THEN watch for no more free prescriptions and their pensions getting hit, Tories have wanted shot of the Pensions triple lock for several years now, and that's now going to happen.

just my views anyway :)


the SNP need to come out with their own project fear for indy2

[Ozyhibby]

my thoughts for the older ones voting tory are that they very much benefit from free prescriptions in Scotland, and because of that irresponsible bare-faced lying dinosaur Gordon ******* Brown they think they would lose out on their pensions, they think they've got the best of both worlds being mastered by Westminster and freebies from a Scottish Parliament, a heck of a lot of them won't even realise they have one of the lowest pensions in Europe. they need to realise Tories want to destroy Devolution....THEN watch for no more free prescriptions and their pensions getting hit, Tories have wanted shot of the Pensions triple lock for several years now, and that's now going to happen.

just my views anyway :)


the SNP need to come out with their own project fear for indy2

Or even better, make a cast iron promise to raise the pensions for everyone to the EU average and also guarantee that the pension age will not go up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

Or even better, make a cast iron promise to raise the pensions for everyone to the EU average and also guarantee that the pension age will not go up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


they've already agreed to do just that :dunno:

[superfurryhibby]

This man gets my vote.

Bonnie Prince Bob.

https://youtu.be/JmAMO6qYFdQ

[SHODAN]

Interesting that the age group least likely to vote Labour is the one that grew up when Tony and co were in power.

[bawheid]

This man gets my vote.

Bonnie Prince Bob.

https://youtu.be/JmAMO6qYFdQ

Just read Angus Robertson’s wiki to fact check the “he’s been in Moray for yonks” chat from BPB. Looks like he was brought up in Edinburgh.

He’s a Jambo though, so you’d have to be wary.

[James310]

they've already agreed to do just that :dunno:

https://fullfact.org/online/snp-conference-pension-vote/

A Facebook post shared thousands of times has claimed:

“At the annual party conference today, the SNP just voted to increase the state pension in an independent Scotland to match the EU average - £355 per week.”

The text was from a screenshot of a tweet which has also been shared over 700 times.

Earlier this week SNP party members at their annual conference voted to support the creation of a plan looking at pension levels in an independent Scotland. The resolution proposing this plan recommended setting pensions at 63% of pre-retirement earnings (the average in countries that are members of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development).

They did not, as the Facebook post claimed, vote to increase pensions to match the EU average.

[superfurryhibby]

Just read Angus Robertson’s wiki to fact check the “he’s been in Moray for yonks” chat from BPB. Looks like he was brought up in Edinburgh.

He’s a Jambo though, so you’d have to be wary.

Not so sure about him being a Jambo, but even then....

He does speak a lot of sense and his take on the SNP resonates strongly with me, and I’ve supported independence for nearly 30 years ( formerly Labour supporting).

I’m voting BPB

[wookie70]

Not so sure about him being a Jambo, but even then....

He does speak a lot of sense and his take on the SNP resonates strongly with me, and I’ve supported independence for nearly 30 years ( formerly Labour supporting).

I’m voting BPB

If I was in Edinburgh Central I would be tempted. His views align pretty closely with my own. It is breaking my heart to vote SNP but I will until Independence. They are the best of a bad lot up here and hopefully we can have an independent parliament full of Bonnie Price Bobs and Bonnie Princess Robertas in a few years time.

[ACLeith]

That's amazing the percentage of older people that intend to vote Tory.


Do people's views just become more 'right wing' as they get older?

:dunno:

Don’t count me in for that 😱 My views have remained pretty much the same for a long time but as the political spectrum has moved so far to the right I am probably a dangerous left wing radical now. When the time comes for me to shuffle off I really hope it’s from an independent Scottish Republic

[Stairway 2 7]

Not so sure about him being a Jambo, but even then....

He does speak a lot of sense and his take on the SNP resonates strongly with me, and I’ve supported independence for nearly 30 years ( formerly Labour supporting).

I’m voting BPB
Bpb owns a very large amount of properties for rent in edin, which might bugger his working class hero thing a bit

[Pretty Boy]

Not so sure about him being a Jambo, but even then....

He does speak a lot of sense and his take on the SNP resonates strongly with me, and I’ve supported independence for nearly 30 years ( formerly Labour supporting).

I’m voting BPB

I found myself nodding along with a fair bit of what he said as well. I know nothing at all about the guy beyond a few videos I have seen on twitter over the years and a couple of pieces he has done for Bella Caledonia. There are conversations we need to be having in Scotland that we just aren't. That's not a 'day job' jibe. If anything the opposition in Scotland are worse, particularly Labour, than the incumbents because of their failure to put forward anything resembling a positive vision for Scotland as part of the union.

For the 1st time since I have been eligible I won't be voting in May. If there was a local independent standing in my constituency then I would definitely have considered them.

[Hibrandenburg]

That's amazing the percentage of older people that intend to vote Tory.


Do people's views just become more 'right wing' as they get older?

:dunno:

No, I just think they're less capable of cohesive thinking. :duck:

[hibsbollah]

If I was in Edinburgh Central I would be tempted. His views align pretty closely with my own. It is breaking my heart to vote SNP but I will until Independence. They are the best of a bad lot up here and hopefully we can have an independent parliament full of Bonnie Price Bobs and Bonnie Princess Robertas in a few years time.

The Labour candidate in Central is Maddie Kirkman, young, blind, long term campaigner for disabled rights, from the left of the party and less antagonistic to a second independence referendum than the leadership. I I like her and if I lived there I’d be campaigning for her. It’s traditionally a tight three way race. I know most people vote for parties not candidates but she’s a good one.

[Pretty Boy]

The Labour candidate in Central is Maddie Kirkman, young, blind, long term campaigner for disabled rights, from the left of the party and less antagonistic to a second independence referendum than the leadership. I I like her and if I lived there I’d be campaigning for her. It’s traditionally a tight three way race. I know most people vote for parties not candidates but she’s a good one.

She's a good candidate, as is Mercedes Vilalba in Dundee. Both young, enthusiastic and ideologically left.

Unfortunately they are likely to go largely unheard because the election is going to be fought on one issue with a side show of covid and sex scandals.

[wookie70]

The Labour candidate in Central is Maddie Kirkman, young, blind, long term campaigner for disabled rights, from the left of the party and less antagonistic to a second independence referendum than the leadership. I I like her and if I lived there I’d be campaigning for her. It’s traditionally a tight three way race. I know most people vote for parties not candidates but she’s a good one.

For me it has went beyond party. I am now a single issue voter. After decades of pouring through manifestos and listening to TV and radio to see what was being promised and who could be trusted(Tories immediately ruled at under that heading) I would vote for what Party and sometimes candidate most aligned with my views. It is all about Indi for me now. I will vote to get the maximum number of Indi MSPs in Parliament. They may not be the best candidate but for me this is all about getting short term politicians in to make a second referendum happen. If we win Independence then start thinking about who we want to trust to drive forward a fairer, kinder and better Scotland. Maddie or Mercedes may be who I would choose to vote for then if they were in a left of centre, more left the better for me, Scottish Labour which is completely severed from Westminster and the knob that runs them now.

The coming election is similar to the Brexit referendum. There is only In and Out for most voters and I dearly hope the outs win through

[hibsbollah]

For me it has went beyond party. I am now a single issue voter. After decades of pouring through manifestos and listening to TV and radio to see what was being promised and who could be trusted(Tories immediately ruled at under that heading) I would vote for what Party and sometimes candidate most aligned with my views. It is all about Indi for me now. I will vote to get the maximum number of Indi MSPs in Parliament. They may not be the best candidate but for me this is all about getting short term politicians in to make a second referendum happen. If we win Independence then start thinking about who we want to trust to drive forward a fairer, kinder and better Scotland. Maddie or Mercedes may be who I would choose to vote for then if they were in a left of centre, more left the better for me, Scottish Labour which is completely severed from Westminster and the knob that runs them now.

The coming election is similar to the Brexit referendum. There is only In and Out for most voters and I dearly hope the outs win through

All very valid. I cant really disagree with your reasoning, sadly.

[wookie70]

All very valid. I cant really disagree with your reasoning, sadly.

It is sad. I don't like the SNP. They have been a pretty poor employer if you are a public servant only looking reasonable because of the blood thirsty neighbouring Govt. They had a chance to make Scotland far more progressive through Tax and Council Tax reform and have simply bottled it for me. Education could be much better and we haven't cashed in or been brave enough positioning ourselves for a Green future. All that doesn't matter and frankly if the Tories up here were the best chance of an Independent Scotland they would be getting my vote. It is pointless worrying too much about manifestos when the Scottish Government reacts to the main levers that Westminster has their hands on. This election is about controlling the Levers not about what way you would push or pull them. That hopefully comes later.

[DaveF]

Bpb owns a very large amount of properties for rent in edin, which might bugger his working class hero thing a bit

I've no idea if this is true but it was the first thought I had when I heard him spouting off, so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

[Santa Cruz]

I've no idea if this is true but it was the first thought I had when I heard him spouting off, so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

I'd never heard of him, so googled him. What I love about these type of articles are the readers comments. Seems he is having a marmite effect.

https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/03/21/bonnie-prince-bob-a-surprise-in-edinburgh-central/

[Colr]

That's amazing the percentage of older people that intend to vote Tory.


Do people's views just become more 'right wing' as they get older?

:dunno:

Was discussing this the other night in the wake of this, Brexit, anti-wokery, etc.. and, when I cast my mind back, I have to admit that, actually, my generation have always been a bunch of *****!

[Frazerbob]

This man gets my vote.

Bonnie Prince Bob.

https://youtu.be/JmAMO6qYFdQ

Really? The boy it is a grade A tit, even if he is a Hibby.

[Hibs90]

It is sad. I don't like the SNP. They have been a pretty poor employer if you are a public servant only looking reasonable because of the blood thirsty neighbouring Govt. They had a chance to make Scotland far more progressive through Tax and Council Tax reform and have simply bottled it for me. Education could be much better and we haven't cashed in or been brave enough positioning ourselves for a Green future. All that doesn't matter and frankly if the Tories up here were the best chance of an Independent Scotland they would be getting my vote. It is pointless worrying too much about manifestos when the Scottish Government reacts to the main levers that Westminster has their hands on. This election is about controlling the Levers not about what way you would push or pull them. That hopefully comes later.

Fair enough reasoning, but can I just say as a public servant, they have not been poor at all to me.

[JimBHibees]

Fair enough reasoning, but can I just say as a public servant, they have not been poor at all to me.

Similar experience for me

[Hibrandenburg]

Really? The boy it is a grade A tit, even if he is a Hibby.

Sounds very much like the imposters he's criticising.

[StevieC]

I'd never heard of him, so googled him. What I love about these type of articles are the readers comments. Seems he is having a marmite effect.

https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/03/21/bonnie-prince-bob-a-surprise-in-edinburgh-central/

I remember his Jim Murphy: Saviour of the Union video 😂

[wookie70]

Fair enough reasoning, but can I just say as a public servant, they have not been poor at all to me.

They are night and day ahead of the Westminster Govt but that is such a low bar. Many Civil Servants are still earning less in real terms than they were in 2008. The last few years pay deals have been better but if you earn over £25K the credit for that may be more down to the Greens refusing to push through the budget unless decent rises were awarded at least up to £36K or so. I will say they have done a good job protecting those earning under £25K or so from austerity, at least in the Civil Service.

[Bristolhibby]

my thoughts for the older ones voting tory are that they very much benefit from free prescriptions in Scotland, and because of that irresponsible bare-faced lying dinosaur Gordon ******* Brown they think they would lose out on their pensions, they think they've got the best of both worlds being mastered by Westminster and freebies from a Scottish Parliament, a heck of a lot of them won't even realise they have one of the lowest pensions in Europe. they need to realise Tories want to destroy Devolution....THEN watch for no more free prescriptions and their pensions getting hit, Tories have wanted shot of the Pensions triple lock for several years now, and that's now going to happen.

just my views anyway :)


the SNP need to come out with their own project fear for indy2

The problem with the triple lock pensions is that it affects the core Tory voter. No way they are going to kill that golden goose. Old buggers turn up regular as clockwork at elections and they predominantly vote Tory and there’s more of them each year as the Boomers all come of age.

You don’t upset that demographic.

J

[Just Alf]

They are night and day ahead of the Westminster Govt but that is such a low bar. Many Civil Servants are still earning less in real terms than they were in 2008. The last few years pay deals have been better but if you earn over £25K the credit for that may be more down to the Greens refusing to push through the budget unless decent rises were awarded at least up to £36K or so. I will say they have done a good job protecting those earning under £25K or so from austerity, at least in the Civil Service.It's a good point about the Greens, you still get folks saying they're SNP in all but name (simply due to their aligned policy on a referendum/independence ) while being seemingly totally ignorant of how Holyrood works where other parties can either reign back a policy they don't like or put something through they do.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[H18 SFR]

It's a good point about the Greens, you still get folks saying they're SNP in all but name (simply due to their aligned policy on a referendum/independence ) while being seemingly totally ignorant of how Holyrood works where other parties can either reign back a policy they don't like or put something through they do.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I am very close friends with a fairly prominent member of the Green party, prominent enough that their name features on the Scottish Green party website here: https://greens.scot/homepage/the-people-behind-the-party

Privately, they talk about the fact that the Green party are united in the sense that they publicly appear collectively together on the pro referendum/independence issue, when in reality it is merely a tool for them to increase the number of councillors and more realistically, MSP's. My friend believes that when it comes to voting on a referendum bill in the next parliament they will be given a free vote by the party leadership - as much has been agreed re this strategy in the past before adopting the pro referendum position.

For the avoidance of any doubt, it seems that the Greens are adopting a pro referendum position to boost their parliamentary party numbers, before not performing a U-turn as such, but giving elected members a free vote, not dictated by the whip so to speak. They have serious ambition to test tis strategy to the hilt by effectively being part of government by coalition.

[CloudSquall]

It would be interesting to see how many of the elected Green members would vote against a referendum bill.

[Santa Cruz]

It would be interesting to see how many of the elected Green members would vote against a referendum bill.

I watched Patrick Harvie being interviewed on a political programme a few months back. He was asked if he thought he was losing a lot of Unionist voters who aligned with Green Party policy but would not vote for them because they supported Independence. I can't recall his exact answer, but I remember thinking it was a bit cagey, like the Party hadn't discounted the possibility they could well get more votes if they weren't pro-independence.

[lapsedhibee]

I am very close friends with a fairly prominent member of the Green party, prominent enough that their name features on the Scottish Green party website here: https://greens.scot/homepage/the-people-behind-the-party

Privately, they talk about the fact that the Green party are united in the sense that they publicly appear collectively together on the pro referendum/independence issue, when in reality it is merely a tool for them to increase the number of councillors and more realistically, MSP's. My friend believes that when it comes to voting on a referendum bill in the next parliament they will be given a free vote by the party leadership - as much has been agreed re this strategy in the past before adopting the pro referendum position.

For the avoidance of any doubt, it seems that the Greens are adopting a pro referendum position to boost their parliamentary party numbers, before not performing a U-turn as such, but giving elected members a free vote, not dictated by the whip so to speak. They have serious ambition to test tis strategy to the hilt by effectively being part of government by coalition.

And what does your bestie think of your decision to point out his party's untrustworthiness on a public forum like this? :dunno:

[superfurryhibby]

Bpb owns a very large amount of properties for rent in edin, which might bugger his working class hero thing a bit

I take it you know him and his finances well? Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't.

Interesting that being working class means you can't be in business though. A fair rent seems legitimate to me

He speaks a lot of sense and as others have said, the issues he raises need discussed.

[wookie70]

BPB won't be happy that there is more student accommodation (https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/heritage-and-retro/retro/proposal-to-transform-former-edinburgh-high-school-into-student-flats-3179138)planned for Public Ground, neither am I to be honest.

There is details of how Nottingham are using the Universities as a way of building the city so if there was a coherent plan from Edinburgh Council maybe I could understand. It looks more like randomly selling land to balance the books to me though.

[H18 SFR]

And what does your bestie think of your decision to point out his party's untrustworthiness on a public forum like this? :dunno:

His?

[lapsedhibee]

His?

Or her. Or other's.

[H18 SFR]

Or her. Or other's.

To be honest, ‘they’ were drawn to the Green Party during their formative years, lured exclusively by environmentalism rather than any kind of social justice, or Indyref matter etc.

They would likely not have an issue as they are a complete pain in the arse within the party. Anyone who knows the people on that list will probably know who I am referencing now.

Edit - just to clarify, I did not use the word untrustworthy etc.

[superfurryhibby]

To be honest, ‘they’ were drawn to the Green Party during their formative years, lured exclusively by environmentalism rather than any kind of social justice, or Indyref matter etc.

They would likely not have an issue as they are a complete pain in the arse within the party. Anyone who knows the people on that list will probably know who I am referencing now.

Edit - just to clarify, I did not use the word untrustworthy etc.

Is a pro independence stance not part of the Green Party manifesto?

https://greens.scot/yes

It would seem pretty unambigous from this?

[JeMeSouviens]

Is a pro independence stance not part of the Green Party manifesto?

https://greens.scot/yes

It would seem pretty unambigous from this?

Yes.

I think when they first took the pro-Indy stance there were some prominent unhappy Greens, Robin Harper for one. They got a big influx of new members after indyref1 though, so they're membership is likely to be pretty strongly pro-Indy because of that.

[Stairway 2 7]

I take it you know him and his finances well? Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't.

Interesting that being working class means you can't be in business though. A fair rent seems legitimate to me

He speaks a lot of sense and as others have said, the issues he raises need discussed.

I never mentioned what he raised I'm sure lots of it is spot on. And yes he does own many properties and yes you surely can't talk about being working class whilst doing so whichhe obviously revels in, being from leith and listening to his voice I'd doubt he started there either. Him salmonds new gang are heaven Sent for the tories and Labour to split the vote

[AgentDaleCooper]

As a fluent gaelic speaker, i find it pretty bloody irritating (and don't read this as 'offended') that Salmond is using a language he doesn't speak to name his new party. The man is an egotistical, self serving, opportunistic morally vacuous prick.

To be clear, i'm no fan of the SNP either, but i think sturgeon is genuine in her motives, even if the are misguided ;)

[lucky]

I watched Patrick Harvie being interviewed on a political programme a few months back. He was asked if he thought he was losing a lot of Unionist voters who aligned with Green Party policy but would not vote for them because they supported Independence. I can't recall his exact answer, but I remember thinking it was a bit cagey, like the Party hadn't discounted the possibility they could well get more votes if they weren't pro-independence.

In the past when Labour were the dominant party and got very little return of regional lists I considered voting Green but didn’t because of its pro nationalist position. I have asked John Finnie, Green MSP, how environmental policies sit along side independence and surely their policy should be about a greener world rather than just Scotland. His response we’ve got to start somewhere and we have a better up chance of having a greener Scotland if it was independent.

[lapsedhibee]

As a fluent gaelic speaker, i find it pretty bloody irritating (and don't read this as 'offended') that Salmond is using a language he doesn't speak to name his new party. The man is an egotistical, self serving, opportunistic morally vacuous prick.


He's taking flak for not being able to pronounce Alba properly. So an egotistical self serving opportunistic morally vacuous culturally appropriating prick.

[Ozyhibby]

He's taking flak for not being able to pronounce Alba properly. So an egotistical self serving opportunistic morally vacuous culturally appropriating prick.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210326/183c611a7315663ef14507f216f24f48.jpg
[emoji23]

I’m actually quite impressed by how little support there appears to be for this new party already.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[superfurryhibby]

I never mentioned what he raised I'm sure lots of it is spot on. And yes he does own many properties and yes you surely can't talk about being working class whilst doing so whichhe obviously revels in, being from leith and listening to his voice I'd doubt he started there either. Him salmonds new gang are heaven Sent for the tories and Labour to split the vote

Slightly bamboozled by this reply. I'm from Leith, and proud of it. However, I speak a bit differently now from how I did growing up, depending on the circumstances (like work). It's good to be flexible, although my now departed wee sister used to jocularly admonish me for my middle class affectations and call me a class traitor.

I'm happy for people to own property and rent it out. The SNP are not a party I would vote for if we had an independent Scotland. Some of the social changes brought about by the unrelenting gentrification of the city appal me. He is also clearly a fan of Bonnie Prince Billy, a musical hero of mine. I don't think BPB is going to split the vote, but he's saying things that resonate with me and need said. I like him.

[CloudSquall]

Out of curiosity how do you pronounce Alba correctly?

[CropleyWasGod]

Out of curiosity how do you pronounce Alba correctly?

Allipa/alliba ?

[Radium]

Out of curiosity how do you pronounce Alba correctly?

https://youtu.be/FIjBcSQkMYE


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kato]

Slightly bamboozled by this reply. I'm from Leith, and proud of it. However, I speak a bit differently now from how I did growing up, depending on the circumstances (like work). It's good to be flexible, although my now departed wee sister used to jocularly admonish me for my middle class affectations and call me a class traitor.

I'm happy for people to own property and rent it out. The SNP are not a party I would vote for if we had an independent Scotland. Some of the social changes brought about by the unrelenting gentrification of the city appal me. He is also clearly a fan of Bonnie Prince Billy, a musical hero of mine. I don't think BPB is going to split the vote, but he's saying things that resonate with me and need said. I like him.

I like him because he's my pal. I don't think I've ever heard him claim to be working class as he isn't but he can stick up for us if he wants.

He can also be a bit of a tit so hardly surprising that's how some see him but he's also a bit more than that.

I wouldn't vote for him to go to the bar but I hope he does well.

Good Hibby.

[JeMeSouviens]

https://youtu.be/fijbcsqkmye


sent from my iphone using tapatalk

mull-ett ?

[superfurryhibby]

I like him because he's my pal. I don't think I've ever heard him claim to be working class as he isn't but he can stick up for us if he wants.

He can also be a bit of a tit so hardly surprising that's how some see him but he's also a bit more than that.

I wouldn't vote for him to go to the bar but I hope he does well.

Good Hibby.


TBF I never said he was working class (how does one define that anyway?), it was in reference to another poster who seemed to be implying that you can't be working class and a business man, or something to that effect.

Why is the guy a tit? Someone else said the same thing earlier in the thread. I'm a bit of a tit myself, it seems like a reasonable position to take in life sometimes.

[Kato]

Why is the guy a tit? Someone else said the same thing earlier in the thread. I'm a bit of a tit myself, it seems like a reasonable position to take in life sometimes.


Exactly, he's a bit of a tit, you're a bit of a tit and I'm a bit of a tit. :greengrin

You don't stand as an independent candidate in central Edinburgh on that platform without being a bit of a tit. Doesn't make his platform any less sensible or any more likely.

[Stairway 2 7]

TBF I never said he was working class (how does one define that anyway?), it was in reference to another poster who seemed to be implying that you can't be working class and a business man, or something to that effect.

Why is the guy a tit? Someone else said the same thing earlier in the thread. I'm a bit of a tit myself, it seems like a reasonable position to take in life sometimes.

Businessman is a ridiculous word to use does that take in bill Gates to my pal who's a joiner. You can't be talking about gentrification and tourism problems then be directly the cause of it.

[Kato]

You can't be talking about gentrification and tourism problems then be directly the cause of it.

How does he manage to be that?

Genuine question, not sticking up for him in any way.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://citywire.co.uk/funds-insider/news/the-citywire-debate-are-second-homes-ethical/a345213

[superfurryhibby]

Businessman is a ridiculous word to use does that take in bill Gates to my pal who's a joiner. You can't be talking about gentrification and tourism problems then be directly the cause of it.

From the article you posted

"Is owning a second home unethical or amoral? Definitely not. While there is no doubt that second home ownership can create problems in some rural areas by pushing up house prices above the level affordable by locals, this is as much a problem of scarce employment and low wages as it is greedy second home owners. Local authorities have a lot to answer for in this area too.

First, people should be free to spend their money on whatever they like; to try to ban the ownership of second homes would be a serious infringement of individuals' rights. Many people who could afford to buy several homes choose not to do so while some who could afford to purchase a home of their own or a second home prefer to rent".

The article is referring to people buying second homes for holiday lets, in scenic rural areas.

How do you know how many homes or otherwise the guy owns?

What is a businessman ? For me it is someone who is self employed or engaged in business. According to you a joiner can't be a businessman? If they run a business, what are they then? People who own property or develop property can't be a business man (or woman)?

[Kato]

https://citywire.co.uk/funds-insider/news/the-citywire-debate-are-second-homes-ethical/a345213

Doesn't mention Bob.

[DaveF]

Doesn't mention Bob.

If he's your mate then I suppose you can tell us if he has multiple properties that he rents (as implied earlier in this thread)

[Kato]

If he's your mate then I suppose you can tell us if he has multiple properties that he rents (as implied earlier in this thread)

I could, if we all knew everything about every person we know's business and knew exactly what they did and how much of it they carried out.

Given life isn't like that I won't. Mainly because I haven't a scooby and if I did I wouldn't anyway.

Sparks a discussion or two though.

Where does property renting turn exploitatory?

Is Bob the direct cause of gentrification and tourism problems?

[lapsedhibee]

exploitatory

:greengrin Made-up word of the week. If only it were possible, to give them a taste of their own medicine.

[Pretty Boy]

If BPB has been outed on this thread as some massive hypocrite then surely that only enhances his credentials for public office rather than detracts from them?

[CropleyWasGod]

If BPB has been outed on this thread as some massive hypocrite then surely that only enhances his credentials for public office rather than detracts from them?

🤣

[Ozyhibby]

Surely people don’t think this guy has a chance of winning a seat?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

Surely people don’t think this guy has a chance of winning a seat?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I think the worry is he may win a seat for someone else by taking some votes away from the SNP or possibly Labour

[DaveF]

I think the worry is he may win a seat for someone else by taking some votes away from the SNP or possibly Labour

I'm assuming he's a labour (ish) supporter otherwise Betty Boop would never have linked to him 🙂

[Kato]

:greengrin Made-up word of the week. If only it were possible, to give them a taste of their own medicine.

It was determined to be "exploratory".

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm assuming he's a labour (ish) supporter otherwise Betty Boop would never have linked to him 🙂

He says something about a sovereign Scottish assembly which would have Betty bealin big time. So I imagine she was stirring more than anything else.

[Kato]

If BPB has been outed on this thread as some massive hypocrite then surely that only enhances his credentials for public office rather than detracts from them?

Standard.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210326/9fe9905b5c2e784b985b797ff3e739f6.jpg

One of the doomed Indy parties bows out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Crunchie]

my thoughts for the older ones voting tory are that they very much benefit from free prescriptions in Scotland, and because of that irresponsible bare-faced lying dinosaur Gordon ******* Brown they think they would lose out on their pensions, they think they've got the best of both worlds being mastered by Westminster and freebies from a Scottish Parliament, a heck of a lot of them won't even realise they have one of the lowest pensions in Europe. they need to realise Tories want to destroy Devolution....THEN watch for no more free prescriptions and their pensions getting hit, Tories have wanted shot of the Pensions triple lock for several years now, and that's now going to happen.

just my views anyway :)


the SNP need to come out with their own project fear for indy2
Watch your free prescriptions etc disappear quicker than snow off a dyke if Scotland becomes independent.

[Moulin Yarns]

Watch your free prescriptions etc disappear quicker than snow off a dyke if Scotland becomes independent.

I suppose it all depends what make up the first parliament has after the election in an independent Scotland

[Ozyhibby]

Watch your free prescriptions etc disappear quicker than snow off a dyke if Scotland becomes independent.

Why on earth would we do that?[emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[weecounty hibby]

Why on earth would we do that?[emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Project fear starting again.

[Hibrandenburg]

Watch your free prescriptions etc disappear quicker than snow off a dyke if Scotland becomes independent.

Watch them disappear if the devolved parliament is dissolved.

[Jones28]

Sarah Smith claiming the independence movement is now “fractured” on the news tonight. Straws not so much being clutched for as desperately rummaged for.

[Future17]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210326/9fe9905b5c2e784b985b797ff3e739f6.jpg

One of the doomed Indy parties bows out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If the word "supermajority" required £1 to the swear jar, we'd clear the national debt by 6 May.

[Hibs90]

Watch your free prescriptions etc disappear quicker than snow off a dyke if Scotland becomes independent.

Proof?

None? Didn’t think so.

[DaveF]

Watch your free prescriptions etc disappear quicker than snow off a dyke if Scotland becomes independent.

Yet you posted this morning that you would still vote for it?

I think you need to get your story straight or just come out the closet as a full blown unionist 🙂

[Stairway 2 7]

There might be some financial difficulties after independence, although I don't think there will. But surely not being run by the oxbridge, self serving, evil truth twisters has to be better.

[Ozyhibby]

The only good thing about the Alba nutcases is that they have to vote SNP in the constituency vote to have any chance in the list of getting seats. Their whole campaign falls if the SNP don’t do well in the constituencies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[660]

How do I work out how to use my second vote from a pro-independence point of view. Both votes SNP? SNP/Green. SNP/Alba? I’m in Edinburgh Central if that makes a difference.

I probably should have got to grips with this years ago to be honest!

[CallumLaidlaw]

How do I work out how to use my second vote from a pro-independence point of view. Both votes SNP? SNP/Green. SNP/Alba? I’m in Edinburgh Central if that makes a difference.

I probably should have got to grips with this years ago to be honest!

I’d like to know this too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[660]

I’d like to know this too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From reading this it seems largely impossible to know how your vote would have the largest impact without already knowing the results.

https://listvotesense.medium.com/tactical-voting-in-the-scottish-parliament-election-a-mass-delusion-deconstructed-ceb65e64754e

I think I’ll go with both votes SNP

[Keith_M]

How do I work out how to use my second vote from a pro-independence point of view. Both votes SNP? SNP/Green. SNP/Alba? I’m in Edinburgh Central if that makes a difference.

I probably should have got to grips with this years ago to be honest!


My wife normally votes Green, but she's going SNP first vote and second vote Green this time.

I think a lot of people are planning to do the same.

[lapsedhibee]

How do I work out how to use my second vote from a pro-independence point of view. Both votes SNP? SNP/Green. SNP/Alba? I’m in Edinburgh Central if that makes a difference.


Look for posts by Mr & Mrs Stick on the Scottish Independence thread.

[Pretty Boy]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Scottish_Parliament_election

Looking at the results from last time around and the breakdown of number of votes and how that translates to number of seats it would be utter folly for anyone who is so inclined to do so to give both votes to the SNP (the South of Scotland and the Highlands are an exception). Partisan politics will never allow it but it would be a smart move to throw weight behind one of the other pro indy parties in the central belt and central Scotland.

[Santa Cruz]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Scottish_Parliament_election

Looking at the results from last time around and the breakdown of number of votes and how that translates to number of seats it would be utter folly for anyone who is so inclined to do so to give both votes to the SNP (the South of Scotland and the Highlands are an exception). Partisan politics will never allow it but it would be a smart move to throw weight behind one of the other pro indy parties in the central belt and central Scotland.

Why are the SNP asking for both votes then? No wonder voters are confused.

[Pretty Boy]

Why are the SNP asking for both votes then? No wonder voters are confused.

Because I don't think an 'indy super majority' is on the SNP agenda. They want as many votes for themselves as possible for partisan reasons.

[Santa Cruz]

Because I don't think an 'indy super majority' is on the SNP agenda. They want as many votes for themselves as possible for partisan reasons.

With that strategy, is this coalition proposal with the Green's possible if they take all the Green votes from the second vote they are asking for?

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19176983.snp-considering-coalition-greens-even-party-wins-majority-holyrood/

[JeMeSouviens]

Why are the SNP asking for both votes then? No wonder voters are confused.

Because if the SNP’s 2016 list vote had matched their constituency vote they’d have retained their majority.

[lord bunberry]

Because if the SNP’s 2016 list vote had matched their constituency vote they’d have retained their majority.
Ffs I had pretty much made my mind up to vote green in the list vote, now I’m not sure again. :greengrin

[wookie70]

Because if the SNP’s 2016 list vote had matched their constituency vote they’d have retained their majority.Is that true I'd like to see the workings. They got 70 odd thousand more list votes in 2016 compared to 2011. Lots of Green voters vote SNP first vote. Maybe they should take their first vote and use it for Greens.I wish the SNP would put Independence first and work with the Greens

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Back on the topic of BPB, don't know anything about the guy but from that YouTube clip, if he started a party post independence I'd lend them my vote. If I was Edinburgh Central he'd have my list vote also. Some folk saying he is a hypocrite and whatever, not a fan of landlords whatsoever but there's a difference between someone who lives in the city renting out a spare flat and some millionaire in London or Tokyo being an absent landlord imo.

[superfurryhibby]

Because if the SNP’s 2016 list vote had matched their constituency vote they’d have retained their majority.

Perhaps the lack of majority isn’t such a bad thing though? The Green agenda must be to influence policy as much as they can. As a supporter of independence, not so much SNP, I’m happy to see PR do what it’s supposed to do and let more voices get heard in parliament.

[Ozyhibby]

Is that true I'd like to see the workings. They got 70 odd thousand more list votes in 2016 compared to 2011. Lots of Green voters vote SNP first vote. Maybe they should take their first vote and use it for Greens.I wish the SNP would put Independence first and work with the Greens

This is how the Lothian list seats were allocated last time.

List vote results for Lothian

SNP 118,546
Tories 74,972
Labour 67,991
Green 34,551

1st MSP elected Miles Brigg (Tory)

Tories 74,972 / 1 = 74,972
Labour 67,991 /1 = 67,991
Green 34,551 /0 = 34,551
SNP 118,546 / 6 = 19,757

2nd MSP elected Kezia Dugdale (Labour)

Labour 67,991 / 1 = 67,991
Tories 74,972 / 2 = 37486
Green 34,551 /0 = 34551
SNP 118,546 / 6 = 19,757

3rd MSP elected Gordon Lindhurst (Tory)

Tories 74,972 / 2 = 37486
Green 34,551 / 0 = 34,551
Labour 67,991 / 2 = 33,995
SNP 118,546 / 6 = 19,757

4th MSP elected Alison Johnstone (Green)

Green 34,551 / 0 = 34,551
Labour 67991 / 2 = 33995
Tories 74,972 / 3 = 24,990
SNP 118,546 / 6 = 19,757

5th MSP elected Andy Wightman ( Green)

Green 34551 / 1 = 34551
Labour 67991 / 2 = 33995
Tories 74,972 / 3 = 24,990
SNP 118,546 / 6 = 19,757

6th MSP elected Neil Finlay (Labour)

Labour 67991 / 2 = 33995
Tories 74972 / 3 = 24,990
SNP 118,546 / 6 = 19,757
Green 34,551 / 2 = 17,275

7th MSP elected Jeremy Balfour (Tory)

Tories 74972 / 3 = 24990
Labour 67991/ 3 = 22663
SNP 118546 / 6 = 19757
Green 34551 / 2 = 17275


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[660]

This is how the Lothian list seats were allocated last time.

List vote results for Lothian

SNP 118,546
Tories 74,972
Labour 67,991
Green 34,551

1st MSP elected Miles Brigg (Tory)

Tories 74,972 / 1 = 74,972
Labour 67,991 /1 = 67,991
Green 34,551 /0 = 34,551
SNP 118,546 / 6 = 19,757

2nd MSP elected Kezia Dugdale (Labour)

Labour 67,991 / 1 = 67,991
Tories 74,972 / 2 = 37486
Green 34,551 /0 = 34551
SNP 118,546 / 6 = 19,757

3rd MSP elected Gordon Lindhurst (Tory)

Tories 74,972 / 2 = 37486
Green 34,551 / 0 = 34,551
Labour 67,991 / 2 = 33,995
SNP 118,546 / 6 = 19,757

4th MSP elected Alison Johnstone (Green)

Green 34,551 / 0 = 34,551
Labour 67991 / 2 = 33995
Tories 74,972 / 3 = 24,990
SNP 118,546 / 6 = 19,757

5th MSP elected Andy Wightman ( Green)

Green 34551 / 1 = 34551
Labour 67991 / 2 = 33995
Tories 74,972 / 3 = 24,990
SNP 118,546 / 6 = 19,757

6th MSP elected Neil Finlay (Labour)

Labour 67991 / 2 = 33995
Tories 74972 / 3 = 24,990
SNP 118,546 / 6 = 19,757
Green 34,551 / 2 = 17,275

7th MSP elected Jeremy Balfour (Tory)

Tories 74972 / 3 = 24990
Labour 67991/ 3 = 22663
SNP 118546 / 6 = 19757
Green 34551 / 2 = 17275


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is making me think SNP/Green. SNP both votes seems pointless.

[Ozyhibby]

This is making me think SNP/Green. SNP both votes seems pointless.

Especially if the polls stay the same as now because the SNP have a chance of winning two more constituencies which makes it even harder.
The Greens will need an extra 16k votes to get that 7th seat though which is difficult.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

I think a good result in Lothian is SNP winning the two extra constituency seats and the greens still holding their list seats. Do that and it’s a good night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skol]

If Sarwar was to unseat Sturgeon, with the new party is it possible that Sturgeon might not be an MSP as there are no SNP list seats ?

[Stick]

How do I work out how to use my second vote from a pro-independence point of view. Both votes SNP? SNP/Green. SNP/Alba? I’m in Edinburgh Central if that makes a difference.

I probably should have got to grips with this years ago to be honest!

Based on the 2016 election figures.
Edinburgh central is in Lothian region.

In 2016 - 4 seats Tory, 3 seats labour, 1 seat Libdems, 6 seats snp, 2 seats green.

If all snp had given list votes to greens- 2 seats Tory, 2 seats labour, 1 seat Libdems, 6 seats snp, 5 seats green

If you go to - scotlandwhatif.weebly.com , there is a breakdown for the whole country, as well as an explanation how the voting system works.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Based on the 2016 election figures.
Edinburgh central is in Lothian region.

In 2016 - 4 seats Tory, 3 seats labour, 1 seat Libdems, 6 seats snp, 2 seats green.

If all snp had given list votes to greens- 2 seats Tory, 2 seats labour, 1 seat Libdems, 6 seats snp, 5 seats green

If you go to - scotlandwhatif.weebly.com , there is a breakdown for the whole country, as well as an explanation how the voting system works.



not another one :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

If Sarwar was to unseat Sturgeon, with the new party is it possible that Sturgeon might not be an MSP as there are no SNP list seats ?

If they lose in constituencies that badly the snp will get list seats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skol]

If they lose in constituencies that badly the snp will get list seats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was thinking just that one seat going to sarwar which is unlikely and the rest to SNP, SNP would not pick up many or even any list seats. All unnlikley and hypothetical I know

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/165769405_10219359886654260_8796671461369215036_n. jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=BbkP6w3ZOcwAX9wC8dA&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=068c81f6b83098785beaa8d9c8caefa3&oe=6085BB37

[660]

Based on the 2016 election figures.
Edinburgh central is in Lothian region.

In 2016 - 4 seats Tory, 3 seats labour, 1 seat Libdems, 6 seats snp, 2 seats green.

If all snp had given list votes to greens- 2 seats Tory, 2 seats labour, 1 seat Libdems, 6 seats snp, 5 seats green

If you go to - scotlandwhatif.weebly.com , there is a breakdown for the whole country, as well as an explanation how the voting system works.

Thanks this is helpful. SNP/Green it is

[Santa Cruz]

I was thinking just that one seat going to sarwar which is unlikely and the rest to SNP, SNP would not pick up many or even any list seats. All unnlikley and hypothetical I know

Not so much to do with the Glasgow Southside seat, I was thinking this hypothetical possibility of losing some constituent seats was the strategic reason for the SNP asking voters for both votes.

[Stick]

If Sarwar was to unseat Sturgeon, with the new party is it possible that Sturgeon might not be an MSP as there are no SNP list seats ?

Even if every every non snp voter voted for Sarwar then she would still be elected.

If new voters voted against her as well, and she was beaten by Sarwar, then labour would lose one of its 4 list seats and snp would gain one list seat. So she would still be elected as long as all snp voters give their list votes to snp.

This is all based on 2016 results

15287 snp votes
——————-
5694 labour
3100 Tory
822 Libdems
——————
9616 total non snp voters

Of course the new Alba in the mix, complicates everything. Although I don’t think they will get enough votes to matter.

So best vote snp with list vote to greens in Glasgow, unless there is a serious threat to Nichola, then both snp is best.

[Ozyhibby]

Sarwar has zero chance of winning NS’s seat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/165769405_10219359886654260_8796671461369215036_n. jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=BbkP6w3ZOcwAX9wC8dA&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=068c81f6b83098785beaa8d9c8caefa3&oe=6085BB37

In Tolkien terms, this is basically Sauron writing to Saruman the White asking his help in getting hold of the One Ring.

Metaphors aside, how bad is his sentence construction? According to wiki he went to agriculture college, but you’d have thought either side of running up and down the sidelines with a wee flag and putting his hand up cows erses, he might have found time to learn how to write a coherent letter.

[Ozyhibby]

Even if every every non snp voter voted for Sarwar then she would still be elected.

If new voters voted against her as well, and she was beaten by Sarwar, then labour would lose one of its 4 list seats and snp would gain one list seat. So she would still be elected as long as all snp voters give their list votes to snp.

This is all based on 2016 results

15287 snp votes
——————-
5694 labour
3100 Tory
822 Libdems
——————
9616 total non snp voters

Of course the new Alba in the mix, complicates everything. Although I don’t think they will get enough votes to matter.

So best vote snp with list vote to greens in Glasgow, unless there is a serious threat to Nichola, then both snp is best.

Alba are only in the list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stick]

not another one :greengrin

Knowledge is good

[Stick]

Alba are only in the list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Didn’t realise that,thanks

[CallumLaidlaw]

So I messaged my dad about doing SNP 1, Green 2, and here’s the reply I got -

I'm still snp 1 and 2, when folk gave the greens the second vote in 2016 the snp lost the majority, the greens just want the second vote so as the snp loose the majority and they can hold them to ransome at the budget.

Is he wrong? (I don’t know enough if I’m honest)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

In Tolkien terms, this is basically Sauron writing to Saruman the White asking his help in getting hold of the One Ring.

Metaphors aside, how bad is his sentence construction? According to wiki he went to agriculture college, but you’d have thought either side of running up and down the sidelines with a wee flag and putting his hand up cows erses, he might have found time to learn how to write a coherent letter.

At least on this occasion it appears Saruman has told him to **** off.

[McD]

So I messaged my dad about doing SNP 1, Green 2, and here’s the reply I got -

I'm still snp 1 and 2, when folk gave the greens the second vote in 2016 the snp lost the majority, the greens just want the second vote so as the snp loose the majority and they can hold them to ransome at the budget.

Is he wrong? (I don’t know enough if I’m honest)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



my (very limited) understanding is that SNP 1 and 2 pretty much means Tory or Labour will get into the list seat, as they’re likely to be the bigger vote getters out of them and the greens. The snp 2 vote is broadly wasted because of the make up of the Scottish Parliament electoral system (outwith the highlands and borders I think)

[The Harp Awakes]

my (very limited) understanding is that SNP 1 and 2 pretty much means Tory or Labour will get into the list seat, as they’re likely to be the bigger vote getters out of them and the greens. The snp 2 vote is broadly wasted because of the make up of the Scottish Parliament electoral system (outwith the highlands and borders I think)

There are quite a few variables and it also depends on which region you are in. If you are in region where the SNP do well in the consistency vote, then there's a fair chance a second vote for the SNP will be wasted.

It's a tough call though as the SNP have rightfully pointed out that in 2016, if those who went SNP 1st vote, had also went SNP 2nd vote, the SNP would have had a majority.

I live in Lothian, and my heart says SNP 1 & 2, but my head says SNP 1 Green 2. I'm still wavering tough.

[CallumLaidlaw]

There are quite a few variables and it also depends on which region you are in. If you are in region where the SNP do well in the consistency vote, then there's a fair chance a second vote for the SNP will be wasted.

It's a tough call though as the SNP have rightfully pointed out that in 2016, if those who went SNP 1st vote, had also went SNP 2nd vote, the SNP would have had a majority.

I live in Lothian, and my heart says SNP 1 & 2, but my head says SNP 1 Green 2. I'm still wavering tough.

Ok, so I’m fife.... thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[danhibees1875]

I've a whole new appreciation of FPTP. :greengrin

[wookie70]

So I messaged my dad about doing SNP 1, Green 2, and here’s the reply I got -

I'm still snp 1 and 2, when folk gave the greens the second vote in 2016 the snp lost the majority, the greens just want the second vote so as the snp loose the majority and they can hold them to ransome at the budget.

Is he wrong? (I don’t know enough if I’m honest)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The SNP got 77,000 more second votes in 2016 so it had more to do with what constituencies were won. I think I heard SNP didn't win as many in Glasgow in 2011 so got more list votes as a consequence. It a good chunk more had given their second vote to Green the SNP would have ended up with the same seats but the Greens would have won a good deal more at the expense of Unionist Parties.

The Greens, to me at least, keep the SNP honest. It wouldn't surprise me if they had something to do with the 4% deal for NHS workers as they have been very important winning pay for other Civil Servants.

[Hibby Bairn]

Unfortunately SNP and Greens combined haven't got a business or economic brain between them all. Which is why (I hope) we never vote for independence under the current "talent pool".

[Ozyhibby]

Unfortunately SNP and Greens combined haven't got a business or economic brain between them all. Which is why (I hope) we never vote for independence under the current "talent pool".

And things are going swimmingly for Scotland with the current set up as we fall further and further behind all our neighbours. [emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibby Bairn]

And things are going swimmingly for Scotland with the current set up as we fall further and further behind all our neighbours. [emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unless we get folk elected who actually know how to run a country (not just spending money) then it is a disaster waiting to happen.

Kate Forbes et al. Do me a favour.

Who is the Green's shadow chancellor in waiting or current economic spokesperson?

[Callum_62]

We do seem to have an uncanny ability of talking our population down in Scotland

I find it all quite odd

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[bawheid]

Unless we get folk elected who actually know how to run a country (not just spending money) then it is a disaster waiting to happen.

Kate Forbes et al. Do me a favour.

Who is the Green's shadow chancellor in waiting or current economic spokesperson?

Yep, you’re right. We’re far better off being run from afar by Eton FPs. We couldn’t possibly do it on our own.

[lapsedhibee]

Yep, you’re right. We’re far better off being run from afar by Eton FPs. We couldn’t possibly do it on our own.

:agree: Too small, too stupid.

[Hibby Bairn]

Yep, you’re right. We’re far better off being run from afar by Eton FPs. We couldn’t possibly do it on our own.

Didn't say we were. But we shouldn't just blindly vote folk in with an independence mandate when they clearly haven't a clue where to start.

We need to start challenging these people more. We can't run a country on Twitter.

[Hibby Bairn]

:agree: Too small, too stupid.

Who said we were. Are you happy with Kate Forbes running our country's finances as an independent country? Have you ever heard her explain just how she is going to do that?

[lapsedhibee]

Are you happy with Kate Forbes running our country's finances as an independent country?

Are you happy with Rishi Sunak running your country as a colony?

[Hibby Bairn]

Are you happy with Rishi Sunak running your country as a colony?

Who said I was? You assume I'm happy with the current t set up. I'm not. But I'm also not happy to place my trust in the current lot at Holyrood. And who imo will likely be even less experienced and talented after May's elections.

[wookie70]

I'm at the point I will vote SNP if they put a Tub of Lard up. I couldn't care less who is in the Scottish parliament for the next year or two as long as they secure a second referendum. After that, and assuming Independence, the party who want to make the fairest Scotland, go crazy with Land Reform and are quickly making us as Green as we can be they will get my vote. The Tub of Lard won't do any worse that some that are in post and if we can come out of this with a Parliament like Iceland or Sweden where there appears to be responsibility and Civil Service then it will all have been worth it.

[The Harp Awakes]

Who said we were. Are you happy with Kate Forbes running our country's finances as an independent country? Have you ever heard her explain just how she is going to do that?

Can you provide some facts to back up your criticism?

[Ozyhibby]

Who said I was? You assume I'm happy with the current t set up. I'm not. But I'm also not happy to place my trust in the current lot at Holyrood. And who imo will likely be even less experienced and talented after May's elections.

I don’t think I’ll ever get used to knowing there are people out there who believe their own country is the only one in the world that can’t run its own affairs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Can you provide some facts to back up your criticism?

Maybe it’s because she is a young woman?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bawheid]

Didn't say we were. But we shouldn't just blindly vote folk in with an independence mandate when they clearly haven't a clue where to start.

We need to start challenging these people more. We can't run a country on Twitter.

Could they really do a worse job than Cameron, May and Johnson have done over the past 11 years? What an absolute **** they’ve made of it.

It’s time to get out. The argument for the Union has been lost. If we make a **** of it ourselves, so be it. At least we’ll have voted for it.

[Just Alf]

People do known that these elections are for Holyrood and the chance to have a referendum?

Assuming pro referendum parties win, if it happens will inform us if Scotland wants independence or not, and if it does, an election will then decide the makeup of the new parliament.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[JeMeSouviens]

Unless we get folk elected who actually know how to run a country (not just spending money) then it is a disaster waiting to happen.

Kate Forbes et al. Do me a favour.

Who is the Green's shadow chancellor in waiting or current economic spokesperson?

Bloody hell, the cringe is strong in this one.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/165954814_10159349609909452_6898294933985542548_o. jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=gpoAGGhgR3AAX9-fArW&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=18f9b4163db391fdf221cc49448d2ddd&oe=608384BF


i imagine ISP will follow suit soon, though i suspect their support collapsed after one of their not-so-bright sparks thought it was funny to put an anti-nicola sturgeon video up two months back....which was very quickly taken down, but the damage was done

[cabbageandribs1875]

pity the Scottish branch parties that take orders from down south don't put Scotland before party as well

[The Harp Awakes]

Maybe it’s because she is a young woman?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sadly, that's probably the extent of the criticism. See it all too often - 'daft wee lassie'.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Katie Forbes is very good at her job, that might put some off her

[SHODAN]

Who said I was? You assume I'm happy with the current t set up. I'm not. But I'm also not happy to place my trust in the current lot at Holyrood. And who imo will likely be even less experienced and talented after May's elections.

The current setup will be in place for at least the next decade, or maybe two if Labour continue as controlled opposition.

[lord bunberry]

Unless we get folk elected who actually know how to run a country (not just spending money) then it is a disaster waiting to happen.

Kate Forbes et al. Do me a favour.

Who is the Green's shadow chancellor in waiting or current economic spokesperson?
What is it about Forbes that you don’t like? I’ve always thought that she comes across really well.

[Hibby Bairn]

What is it about Forbes that you don’t like? I’ve always thought that she comes across really well.

Nothing about her personally. Or Swinney. Or Constance. Or Matheson.

But there is a huge difference just spending money and having a fully constructed economic framework including borrowing, taxation, currency, bond ratings, attracting investment, retaining wealth creating individuals etc.

Look. I reckon there are probably 10%-15% who like the idea of independence but need to know more. Want to see a fully thought out strategy economically. Helping people understand what it means for jobs, business, pensions etc.

40% is probably secure as SNP/Yes. 40% probably secure for union parties/No. Its that middle group that will decide yes or no.

Imo the SNP don't give enough confidence to the waverers. Like me. They need to sort that. Otherwise people will always err on the side of caution.

[Crunchie]

Nothing about her personally. Or Swinney. Or Constance. Or Matheson.

But there is a huge difference just spending money and having a fully constructed economic framework including borrowing, taxation, currency, bond ratings, attracting investment, retaining wealth creating individuals etc.

Look. I reckon there are probably 10%-15% who like the idea of independence but need to know more. Want to see a fully thought out strategy economically. Helping people understand what it means for jobs, business, pensions etc.

40% is probably secure as SNP/Yes. 40% probably secure for union parties/No. Its that middle group that will decide yes or no.

Imo the SNP don't give enough confidence to the waverers. Like me. They need to sort that. Otherwise people will always err on the side of caution.
Very well put, I'd say I'm in that camp too.

[Jones28]

Nothing about her personally. Or Swinney. Or Constance. Or Matheson.

But there is a huge difference just spending money and having a fully constructed economic framework including borrowing, taxation, currency, bond ratings, attracting investment, retaining wealth creating individuals etc.

Look. I reckon there are probably 10%-15% who like the idea of independence but need to know more. Want to see a fully thought out strategy economically. Helping people understand what it means for jobs, business, pensions etc.

40% is probably secure as SNP/Yes. 40% probably secure for union parties/No. Its that middle group that will decide yes or no.

Imo the SNP don't give enough confidence to the waverers. Like me. They need to sort that. Otherwise people will always err on the side of caution.

What do you want them to do?

[Ozyhibby]

What do you want them to do?

He wants them to provide a fully thought out economic strategy like the Tories have for Scotland. [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibby Bairn]

What do you want them to do?

Explain very clearly what a new Scotland looks like. Persuasive and very clear arguments for every single aspect of the business and financial aspects of independence.

I don't understand any of that just now. Not because of intellect. Just because it hasn't been published or explained.

I would like Forbes to do that. And allow herself to be challenged on it. Rigorously. That does two things. It helps me understand the plan. And whether Forbes gives me the confidence she is the person to do it.

I don't have either just now. So I won't vote for it. I reckon there is probably another 300,000-500,000 just like me.

[Jones28]

He wants them to provide a fully thought out economic strategy like the Tories have for Scotland. [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh, I see, would this be for a referendum that hasn’t even been given a year yet?

[Stick]

So I messaged my dad about doing SNP 1, Green 2, and here’s the reply I got -

I'm still snp 1 and 2, when folk gave the greens the second vote in 2016 the snp lost the majority, the greens just want the second vote so as the snp loose the majority and they can hold them to ransome at the budget.

Is he wrong? (I don’t know enough if I’m honest)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In mid Scotland and Fife region

In 2016 the snp received over 120,000 list votes and won no list seats.
If those list votes were given to the greens they would have won 3 extra list seats.
So in this region snp first vote and greens list votes

It gets even better because in this example not only would the greens get 3 extra seats, they would have been taken from the Tories -2, and labour -1.


Calculations and sources shown on scotlandwhatif.weebly.com

[Hibby Bairn]

He wants them to provide a fully thought out economic strategy like the Tories have for Scotland. [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can ping pong re UK all you like. It doesn't affect me at all. Just because one side is crap doesn't mean we should all bash on because some folk wave a few saltires.

[Ozyhibby]

You can ping pong re UK all you like. It doesn't affect me at all. Just because one side is crap doesn't mean we should all bash on because some folk wave a few saltires.

Fair enough, you’ve accepted managed decline for Scotland’s future. That’s you right.
I personally don’t want us to keep getting poorer than all our neighbours. Each to their own I suppose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibby Bairn]

Fair enough, you’ve accepted managed decline for Scotland’s future. That’s you right.
I personally don’t want us to keep getting poorer than all our neighbours. Each to their own I suppose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I haven't accepted anything of the sort. I'm ready to be persuaded. But the SNP don't seem to want to explain it.

And until they do i reckon they'll always end up with a No majority.

[Ozyhibby]

I haven't accepted anything of the sort. I'm ready to be persuaded. But the SNP don't seem to want to explain it.

And until they do i reckon they'll always end up with a No majority.

You have accepted it. The current plan for Scotland is managed decline. You have accepted it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

Nothing about her personally. Or Swinney. Or Constance. Or Matheson.

But there is a huge difference just spending money and having a fully constructed economic framework including borrowing, taxation, currency, bond ratings, attracting investment, retaining wealth creating individuals etc.

Look. I reckon there are probably 10%-15% who like the idea of independence but need to know more. Want to see a fully thought out strategy economically. Helping people understand what it means for jobs, business, pensions etc.

40% is probably secure as SNP/Yes. 40% probably secure for union parties/No. Its that middle group that will decide yes or no.

Imo the SNP don't give enough confidence to the waverers. Like me. They need to sort that. Otherwise people will always err on the side of caution.

I certainly would have more faith in their arithmetic than yours. 😉

[danhibees1875]

You have accepted it. The current plan for Scotland is managed decline. You have accepted it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are we in decline? What are we declining in/on? :dunno:

[DaveF]

Explain very clearly what a new Scotland looks like. Persuasive and very clear arguments for every single aspect of the business and financial aspects of independence.

I don't understand any of that just now. Not because of intellect. Just because it hasn't been published or explained.

I would like Forbes to do that. And allow herself to be challenged on it. Rigorously. That does two things. It helps me understand the plan. And whether Forbes gives me the confidence she is the person to do it.

I don't have either just now. So I won't vote for it. I reckon there is probably another 300,000-500,000 just like me.

But happy to take what we are given by a unionist govt who dragged us out of Europe on the back of no plan and waving a lot of flags.

[Ozyhibby]

Are we in decline? What are we declining in/on? :dunno:

We are declining compared to our independent neighbours such as Ireland, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden etc. We used to be richer than all those countries and we are now behind all of them. And the situation is not improving. And there is no plan for it to improve either. We are managed by the Tories yet have you ever heard any of them address this issue and say they would like to fix it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Free laptop for every school pupil in Scotland from the SNP. Great move that will make a massive difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

We are declining compared to our independent neighbours such as Ireland, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden etc. We used to be richer than all those countries and we are now behind all of them. And the situation is not improving. And there is no plan for it to improve either. We are managed by the Tories yet have you ever heard any of them address this issue and say they would like to fix it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think it's an unfair question to ask what the SNPs plan for managing then reversing that decline is in the formative years of an independent Scotland though.

Whether I agree with the points raised by the poster above is neither here or there. The vote is going to hinge on quite a small number of people and economic security, both personal and fiscal, is going to be high on their agenda. It was arguably the deciding factor last time around as there were too many unknowns and wait and sees relating to major questions. Better Together/Project Fear will lead with that again. The Yes campaign, which despite the assertion it is a broad church, will be dominated by the SNP need to answer those questions more comprehensively this time. 'We'll know more once you vote for it' isn't going to wash with all of those potential swing voters.

[Moulin Yarns]

Explain very clearly what a new Scotland looks like. Persuasive and very clear arguments for every single aspect of the business and financial aspects of independence.

I don't understand any of that just now. Not because of intellect. Just because it hasn't been published or explained.

I would like Forbes to do that. And allow herself to be challenged on it. Rigorously. That does two things. It helps me understand the plan. And whether Forbes gives me the confidence she is the person to do it.

I don't have either just now. So I won't vote for it. I reckon there is probably another 300,000-500,000 just like me.

There is a lot of stuff out there if you look for it. Some official from the Scottish Government (SNP) but also independent think tanks.

Worth searching for them if you want to be fully aware. For starters you can do worse than read these.

https://commonweal.scot/policy-library

[Santa Cruz]

Very well put, I'd say I'm in that camp too.

Same for me. Along with the points the OP makes about people wanting concrete answers to the issues cited. Personally, I would be more inclined to be persuaded if they had a good record in governing the country, instead of a track record of failed pledges and poor performance. I have little faith in a Party that can't deliver with the powers they do have but expect me to have confidence they could run the country with full control of all powers.

[Keith_M]

I don't think it's an unfair question to ask what the SNPs plan for managing then reversing that decline is in the formative years of an independent Scotland though.

Whether I agree with the points raised by the poster above is neither here or there. The vote is going to hinge on quite a small number of people and economic security, both personal and fiscal, is going to be high on their agenda. It was arguably the deciding factor last time around as there were too many unknowns and wait and sees relating to major questions. Better Together/Project Fear will lead with that again. The Yes campaign, which despite the assertion it is a broad church, will be dominated by the SNP need to answer those questions more comprehensively this time. 'We'll know more once you vote for it' isn't going to wash with all of those potential swing voters.


Agreed.

Hearing the negatives about the status quo isn't going to be enough to convince a lot of people. Many of them will want to (quite reasonably) hear the economic arguments in favour of independence.

[Pretty Boy]

Agreed.

Hearing the negatives about the status quo isn't going to be enough to convince a lot of people. Many of them will want to (quite reasonably) hear the economic arguments in favour of independence.

I'll add to my post above and say that I know there are all kinds of studies, think tanks, papers and so on that provide some of the potential answers.

It's unlikely a huge percentage of voters are going to go searching for them though. We can argue about dumbing down politics and whatever else but the last few years has shown that short answers and soundbites resonate with a lot of people. I read the white paper last time around, I don't know anyone else who did. Most of them voted on a gut instinct based on the short, sharp answers they had seen repeated endlessly in the weeks leading up to the vote.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'll add to my post above and say that I know there are all kinds of studies, think tanks, papers and so on that provide some of the potential answers.

It's unlikely a huge percentage of voters are going to go searching for them though. We can argue about dumbing down politics and whatever else but the last few years has shown that short answers and soundbites resonate with a lot of people. I read the white paper last time around, I don't know anyone else who did. Most of them voted on a gut instinct based on the short, sharp answers they had seen repeated endlessly in the weeks leading up to the vote.

That's probably true, but the bairn asked where he could find answers. 😉

[Pretty Boy]

That's probably true, but the bairn asked where he could find answers. 😉

I think it's important that people are directed to these places if they ask for info. It's up to them if they follow the advice and read it.

For those that don't though there has to be a counter to the 'save yer pension', 'save yer mortgage', err 'remain in the EU' narrative. If it was up to me I would catch the no campaign off guard by pushing those issues which were sticking points last time to the front and centre. They will want to play the 'they are hiding this away because they can't answer' card. Lead with it, answer what you can and admit or hypothesise what you can't. With a single stroke you remove their trump card.

[DaveF]

I think it's important that people are directed to these places if they ask for info. It's up to them if they follow the advice and read it.

For those that don't though there has to be a counter to the 'save yer pension', 'save yer mortgage', err 'remain in the EU' narrative. If it was up to me I would catch the no campaign off guard by pushing those issues which were sticking points last time to the front and centre. They will want to play the 'they are hiding this away because they can't answer' card. Lead with it, answer what you can and admit or hypothesise what you can't. With a single stroke you remove their trump card.

If and when Indy2 is held, then Yes would deservedly losenif they ignored / lost the financial argument. We know that and those running it will certainly know it.

But first, we need to return a proIndy majority in May or this discussion is redundant.

[Ozyhibby]

I think it's important that people are directed to these places if they ask for info. It's up to them if they follow the advice and read it.

For those that don't though there has to be a counter to the 'save yer pension', 'save yer mortgage', err 'remain in the EU' narrative. If it was up to me I would catch the no campaign off guard by pushing those issues which were sticking points last time to the front and centre. They will want to play the 'they are hiding this away because they can't answer' card. Lead with it, answer what you can and admit or hypothesise what you can't. With a single stroke you remove their trump card.

I agree that people will want answers to economic questions but it’s not always possible to say with certainty how things will go even with the status quo. What the SNP can point to is the direction of travel on the policies the have brought in over the last 14 years. I would say than on the areas they control, we have moved more in the direction of the Scandinavian model than we have towards the Westminster model.
Things like free education, free prescriptions, the building of social housing, free bus passes for pensioners and u22’s, baby boxes, social care etc etc point to a way of organising society in a very different way to what Westminster offers.
Yes, there have been failures. Education is not performing well and I think curriculum for excellence is not working and needs scrapped but other areas such as Health is working better than other parts of the UK. Not everything will work perfectly under Indy, there will still be scandals and major failures just like every other country. But the direction of travel will be more in line with what Scottish voters value and not what is valued in the south of England.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ronaldo7]

I agree that people will want answers to economic questions but it’s not always possible to say with certainty how things will go even with the status quo. What the SNP can point to is the direction of travel on the policies the have brought in over the last 14 years. I would say than on the areas they control, we have moved more in the direction of the Scandinavian model than we have towards the Westminster model.
Things like free education, free prescriptions, the building of social housing, free bus passes for pensioners and u22’s, baby boxes, social care etc etc point to a way of organising society in a very different way to what Westminster offers.
Yes, there have been failures. Education is not performing well and I think curriculum for excellence is not working and needs scrapped but other areas such as Health is working better than other parts of the UK. Not everything will work perfectly under Indy, there will still be scandals and major failures just like every other country. But the direction of travel will be more in line with what Scottish voters value and not what is valued in the south of England.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've yet to see one policy from the parties wishing to govern Scotland. Maybe all those who are voting for them could furnish us with the policies, so we could determine which party has the policies which matter to the people of Scotland.

You forgot the new Scottish child payment, :wink: a game changer according to CPAG.

[Stick]

I agree that people will want answers to economic questions but it’s not always possible to say with certainty how things will go even with the status quo. What the SNP can point to is the direction of travel on the policies the have brought in over the last 14 years. I would say than on the areas they control, we have moved more in the direction of the Scandinavian model than we have towards the Westminster model.
Things like free education, free prescriptions, the building of social housing, free bus passes for pensioners and u22’s, baby boxes, social care etc etc point to a way of organising society in a very different way to what Westminster offers.
Yes, there have been failures. Education is not performing well and I think curriculum for excellence is not working and needs scrapped but other areas such as Health is working better than other parts of the UK. Not everything will work perfectly under Indy, there will still be scandals and major failures just like every other country. But the direction of travel will be more in line with what Scottish voters value and not what is valued in the south of England.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:aok:

[wookie70]

I don't think it's an unfair question to ask what the SNPs plan for managing then reversing that decline is in the formative years of an independent Scotland though.

Whether I agree with the points raised by the poster above is neither here or there. The vote is going to hinge on quite a small number of people and economic security, both personal and fiscal, is going to be high on their agenda. It was arguably the deciding factor last time around as there were too many unknowns and wait and sees relating to major questions. Better Together/Project Fear will lead with that again. The Yes campaign, which despite the assertion it is a broad church, will be dominated by the SNP need to answer those questions more comprehensively this time. 'We'll know more once you vote for it' isn't going to wash with all of those potential swing voters.


I agree, the White Paper was a good start but they need to be clearer on issues such as currency, debt, borrowing etc. I would also like them to change and lose the Monarchy. I have little interest in whether the current Finance Minister is the Rain Woman or uses her fingers to count. If we secure Independence we can choose who looks after our finances. At the moment Westminster essentially does that for the most part.

I'm content for Scotland to be poorer short term with a better future. We have the resource and talent to grow and do incredibly well and I am voting for future Scots and not for me. It might take 5 or 10 years but without the massive weight we carry of having Westminster run us I think the signs of a brighter future will be seen very quickly. We as a nation are well thought of throughout the EU and the rest of the world. The same can't be said of our neighbours and our reputation as an honest nation will see us secure trade deals and partnerships far more easily than the UK.

As a Public Servant the Tories have already tried to illegally steal my pension(they lost in court), charged me more for a poorer pension, stole my compensation scheme illegally(again they lost in court) and are now withholding money belonging to Civil Servants to pay for their illegal acts and fund the pension we are due back. If that is the type of financial competence that people think is better then more fool them.

[Ozyhibby]

I've yet to see one policy from the parties wishing to govern Scotland. Maybe all those who are voting for them could furnish us with the policies, so we could determine which party has the policies which matter to the people of Scotland.

You forgot the new Scottish child payment, :wink: a game changer according to CPAG.

Didn’t mention every child getting a free laptop either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Keith_M]

This probably sounds like a madcap, wacky notion, but how about the SNP push the building of new Council Housing as the way forward to tackle housing shortages?

I do realise there are a lot of people that really want to own their own home but there must be tens (or even hundreds) of thousands that would love the opportunity to rent a reasonable quality house, at an affordable price that is owned by an organisation that isn't just in it to make some money... in the same way as their parents or grandparents once took for granted.


The Right To Buy policy of the Thatcher era probably was a good thing for many people, but unfortunately it had the downside of ending new build council housing, at the same time as the councils were forced to give away their property incredibly cheaply.

[Coach Jon]

I agree that people will want answers to economic questions but it’s not always possible to say with certainty how things will go even with the status quo. What the SNP can point to is the direction of travel on the policies the have brought in over the last 14 years. I would say than on the areas they control, we have moved more in the direction of the Scandinavian model than we have towards the Westminster model.
Things like free education, free prescriptions, the building of social housing, free bus passes for pensioners and u22’s, baby boxes, social care etc etc point to a way of organising society in a very different way to what Westminster offers.
Yes, there have been failures. Education is not performing well and I think curriculum for excellence is not working and needs scrapped but other areas such as Health is working better than other parts of the UK. Not everything will work perfectly under Indy, there will still be scandals and major failures just like every other country. But the direction of travel will be more in line with what Scottish voters value and not what is valued in the south of England.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You say Free this, Free that. Got news for you, nothing is free, has to be funded, and thats where the independence argument fails, economic argument says we are far better off in the devolved state as part of the UK, would you seriously trust the EU to prop us up in times of financial crisis?
Good luck with that one.

[ronaldo7]

Didn’t mention every child getting a free laptop either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You also missed the extra £690.30 paid to carers in Scotland.

Would Labour/Lib dems/Tories keep this payment, or would it be sent back to Westminster?

[StevieC]

Explain very clearly what a new Scotland looks like. Persuasive and very clear arguments for every single aspect of the business and financial aspects of independence.

I don't understand any of that just now. Not because of intellect. Just because it hasn't been published or explained.

I would like Forbes to do that. And allow herself to be challenged on it. Rigorously. That does two things. It helps me understand the plan. And whether Forbes gives me the confidence she is the person to do it.

I don't have either just now. So I won't vote for it. I reckon there is probably another 300,000-500,000 just like me.

I doubt any finance minister is actually qualified to put together what you are asking, it’ll be down to the experts within the civil service that do that. I suspect that for the most part the ministers job is to relay it to the electorate, and it’s more about their ability to do that properly than their ability to actually format the technicalities.

Of course, putting all that together would leave her wide open for accusations of “not doing the day job”.

300,000 seems a bit high, I’d find it hard to believe that there are that many people remaining undecided/NO until full fiscal policies are published.

[Ozyhibby]

You say Free this, Free that. Got news for you, nothing is free, has to be funded, and thats where the independence argument fails, economic argument says we are far better off in the devolved state as part of the UK, would you seriously trust the EU to prop us up in times of financial crisis?
Good luck with that one.

Sorry, how did Westminster prop us up in the financial crisis?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ronaldo7]

This probably sounds like a madcap, wacky notion, but how about the SNP push the building of new Council Housing as the way forward to tackle housing shortages?

I do realise there are a lot of people that really want to own their own home but there must be tens (or even hundreds) of thousands that would love the opportunity to rent a reasonable quality house, at an affordable price that is owned by an organisation that isn't just in it to make some money... in the same way as their parents or grandparents once took for granted.


The Right To Buy policy of the Thatcher era probably was a good thing for many people, but unfortunately it had the downside of ending new build council housing, at the same time as the councils were forced to give away their property incredibly cheaply.

We have delivered 96,750 affordable homes since 2007, nearly 67,000 of which were for social rent, including 14,661 council homes.

Our plan for the next parliament is for another 100,000 affordable homes.

[ronaldo7]

You say Free this, Free that. Got news for you, nothing is free, has to be funded, and thats where the independence argument fails, economic argument says we are far better off in the devolved state as part of the UK, would you seriously trust the EU to prop us up in times of financial crisis?
Good luck with that one.

These are policies and payments paid from our Scottish Government from our Budget. They're not free, we've paid for them through our taxes. Our government want to give some of our taxes back in policy areas they think will benefit our people.

What's not to like?

[StevieC]

You say Free this, Free that. Got news for you, nothing is free, has to be funded, and thats where the independence argument fails, economic argument says we are far better off in the devolved state as part of the UK, would you seriously trust the EU to prop us up in times of financial crisis?
Good luck with that one.

Prop us up in times of financial crisis?
For the last 40 years Scotland has been a net contributor the vast majority of the time (I suppose you could say we’ve been propping up the UK). Not at any stage has the UK sent more money to Scotland than Scotland has first sent down south to the treasury.

And if you think that the current situation is seeing the UK propping us up with free money, then I’d maybe consider a bit of research on “National Debt”.

I will hold my hands up and admit that at this moment in time the lack of a central bank with borrowing powers may well have been a problem, but it’s hard to accept that as a failing when it’s not something that has ever been needed. And it’s only getting flagged up now that Independence is a serious alternative to Westminster rule.

[Hibrandenburg]

We have delivered 96,750 affordable homes since 2007, nearly 67,000 of which were for social rent, including 14,661 council homes.

Our plan for the next parliament is for another 100,000 affordable homes.

Has Scotland with a fraction of the UK population actually built more affordable housing than the rest of the UK since 2007?

[Santa Cruz]

Are theses stats correct? 40% of workers don't pay income tax. About the same percentage are public sector workers, so central and local government foot the wage bill. Approx 2 million people claim some form of state benefit.

[Hibby Bairn]

Free laptop for every school pupil in Scotland from the SNP. Great move that will make a massive difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pity its a year late. Electioneering nonsense.

[Ozyhibby]

Pity its a year late. Electioneering nonsense.

A year late for what? This is a long term benefit for Scotland’s children. And I guarantee it will be copied down south soon enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibby Bairn]

If and when Indy2 is held, then Yes would deservedly losenif they ignored / lost the financial argument. We know that and those running it will certainly know it.

But first, we need to return a proIndy majority in May or this discussion is redundant.

There has been a pro indy majority for the last 5 years. No clarity placed forward as far as I'm aware.

[Dalianwanda]

Pity its a year late. Electioneering nonsense.

I fail to see what is nonsense about it. Access to technology a lot of kids wouldn’t have, i can’t see a negative with this at all.

[DaveF]

There has been a pro indy majority for the last 5 years. No clarity placed forward as far as I'm aware.

Yep and if the SNP Govt had put forward all the cases for an iScotland as you want during the last 5 years, I expect you would be first in the queue to complain about not doing the day job.

[Ozyhibby]

There has been a pro indy majority for the last 5 years. No clarity placed forward as far as I'm aware.

If you can’t see the difference between what the SNP offer and what the Tories offer then you are not really looking anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibby Bairn]

I fail to see what is nonsense about it. Access to technology a lot of kids wouldn’t have, i can’t see a negative with this at all.

If it was such a crucial thing then why didn't she announce it last March when schools went into lockdown closure? You know, when it was really needed. Why wait until 6 weeks before an election?

Great idea BTW. But let's not pretend its anything other than a bribe towards voters.

I don't mind all this "free" stuff btw. But let's have a proper, honest discussion about it. Let's be really open and say this is all the stuff we want to do. What we want Scotland to look like. But to do it all then we'll need to increase taxes by xxx. I reckon many people would back it. But we don't. We hide behind gimmicky giveaways. Lazy politics.

[Hibby Bairn]

If you can’t see the difference between what the SNP offer and what the Tories offer then you are not really looking anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You need to try and broaden your arguments beyond UK crap/ Scotland must be better. That is exactly what folk like me who actually want independence but with more clarity on the economic case need.

But everything gets closed down into a UK, Tories, Saltire waving drivel. Put the case forward clearly and let people decide.

[Hibby Bairn]

Yep and if the SNP Govt had put forward all the cases for an iScotland as you want during the last 5 years, I expect you would be first in the queue to complain about not doing the day job.

Just put the case forward. Why won't they just do that?

[Skol]

Hibby Bairn. You are correct in everything you say but you are fighting a losing battle. The SNP faithful though are just programmed with their stock answers.

I am probably in the 40% committed no camp. However with a better and more inclusive and open approach I could be persuaded. Sadly the SNP don’t seem to want to focus on winning me and would rather put me down as sone kind of a Tory apologist.

[hibsbollah]

Hibby Bairn. You are correct in everything you say but you are fighting a losing battle. The SNP faithful though are just programmed with their stock answers.

I am probably in the 40% committed no camp. However with a better and more inclusive and open approach I could be persuaded. Sadly the SNP don’t seem to want to focus on winning me and would rather put me down as sone kind of a Tory apologist.

No offence but I imagine the SNP hierarchy have more on their plate than constructing a ‘Tory apologist’ narrative against you...

[wookie70]

Are theses stats correct? 40% of workers don't pay income tax. About the same percentage are public sector workers, so central and local government foot the wage bill. Approx 2 million people claim some form of state benefit. I'd far rather we were paid more and also paid more tax. Not much difference for those on lower wages but we could get much more back from the wealthy than we do. One of the things I want Scotland to become is more equal, higher tax but higher quality of public service and by extension society. The Uk is a doff your cap race to the bottom type of society. I want for more for my kids than the far right cesspit that England is quickly becoming

[Santa Cruz]

I'd far rather we were paid more and also paid more tax. Not much difference for those on lower wages but we could get much more back from the wealthy than we do. One of the things I want Scotland to become is more equal, higher tax but higher quality of public service and by extension society. The Uk is a doff your cap race to the bottom type of society. I want for more for my kids than the far right cesspit that England is quickly becoming

Fair enough point of view. I'm not clear if these stats are correct though, or just figures banded about. If they are correct, to me, that reads like a lot more money going out than coming in. I'm not sure how realistic it is to believe that will change given the current economic climate and the uncertainties that come with the possibility of Independence.

[Kato]

You need to try and broaden your arguments beyond UK crap/ Scotland must be better. That is exactly what folk like me who actually want independence but with more clarity on the economic case need.


The UK Govt isn't crap at what it does, it has succeeded in doing it's main job for quite a while, especially on the back of austerity and covid. It's main job being ensuring an upward direction of liquidity. All their flag waving/loving is just a handy, very trusty diversion. Look at the increase in disparity since the end of the 70's and it only goes in one direction.

[Pretty Boy]

Are theses stats correct? 40% of workers don't pay income tax. About the same percentage are public sector workers, so central and local government foot the wage bill. Approx 2 million people claim some form of state benefit.

I could suggest something that would revolutionise state benefits. I may have mentioned it once or twice in the last decade.

Universal. Basic. Income.

[lord bunberry]

Pity its a year late. Electioneering nonsense.
You obviously don’t have school aged children.

[SHODAN]

Actually starting to come round to the idea that if the Alba Party take say, half of the SNP's list votes, it could obliterate the unionist parties on polling day.

The downside is that the Greens would take heavy losses and we'd have some very unsavoury politicians in parliament.

[DaveF]

Just put the case forward. Why won't they just do that?

You know fine well. Despite Indy being a hot topic on here, there isnt a referendum to fight and you and a heap of others would moan about not doing the job.

I'm quite sure as and when there is a vote, you will get you information in full and make a choice.

[Hibby Bairn]

You obviously don’t have school aged children.

As I said, I think it is good idea. If we give free jotters and pencils then we should give free technology to enable school work to be done.

But why 6 weeks before an election. Why not 12 months ago when it really would have made a difference to those who actually need it.

[Hibby Bairn]

You know fine well. Despite Indy being a hot topic on here, there isnt a referendum to fight and you and a heap of others would moan about not doing the job.

I'm quite sure as and when there is a vote, you will get you information in full and make a choice.

But they're fighting this election on an independence referendum mandate. Make the case. Anything even.

[DaveF]

As I said, I think it is good idea. If we give free jotters and pencils then we should give free technology to enable school work to be done.

But why 6 weeks before an election. Why not 12 months ago when it really would have made a difference to those who actually need it.

There was this pandemic thing going on which needed a bit of focus in a few areas. You might have noticed a few govts struggling with it.

[DaveF]

But they're fighting this election on an independence referendum mandate. Make the case. Anything even.

Since you have ignored it twice, I'll try again.

Do you agree that debating about n iScotland future as you want during this parliament would be an easy target for unionists to claim the govt are not doing their day job?

[lord bunberry]

As I said, I think it is good idea. If we give free jotters and pencils then we should give free technology to enable school work to be done.

But why 6 weeks before an election. Why not 12 months ago when it really would have made a difference to those who actually need it.
In the last 12 months they’ve been trying to get iPads out to all kids that needed them. This announcement is welcome, even if it is a bit of electioneering.

[Ozyhibby]

Actually starting to come round to the idea that if the Alba Party take say, half of the SNP's list votes, it could obliterate the unionist parties on polling day.

The downside is that the Greens would take heavy losses and we'd have some very unsavoury politicians in parliament.

There is zero chance of that happening. I’m uncomfortable with gaming the system that much anyway. The parliament should reflect the Scottish people. We should not try to take short cuts to independence. It should come because the majority of people in Scotland demand it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[heretoday]

Free laptop. Do we get free wifi as well? Some homes don't have it.

[Ozyhibby]

Free laptop. Do we get free wifi as well? Some homes don't have it.

Comes with a free internet connection.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

As I said, I think it is good idea. If we give free jotters and pencils then we should give free technology to enable school work to be done.

But why 6 weeks before an election. Why not 12 months ago when it really would have made a difference to those who actually need it.

Because the Scottish Government has no power to borrow and must balance the books.

[Hibby Bairn]

There was this pandemic thing going on which needed a bit of focus in a few areas. You might have noticed a few govts struggling with it.

Unlike poor kids who couldn't home school like rich kids?

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/alba-party-supporters-details-hacked-from-website


Amateurs 🤣🤣🤣

[CloudSquall]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/alba-party-supporters-details-hacked-from-website


Amateurs 🤣🤣🤣

Who the hell decided to call hacking "black arts" in their statement?

It makes it sound like an OAP club.

[Moulin Yarns]

Very informative YouTube channel. Broadcasting Scotland. Give it a shot for a wide range of subjects.

[DaveF]

Unlike poor kids who couldn't home school like rich kids?

What's with the poor / rich thing? I'm neither, had to buy my daughter a laptop with money that could have been spent elsewhere and make sacrifices to ensure she worked her courses throughout it all. I'm in a better position than many families who didn't or couldn't do that but you seem to have drifted way off the topic of finances and iScotland.

I'll leave you to it.

[CloudSquall]

https://mobile.twitter.com/citizentommy/status/1376183465130004481

Tommy Sheridan has joined the Alba Party.

Sheridan and Salmond, ****ing dream team material :greengrin.

Not sure what that means for Solidarity other than less than a few hundred votes at best in May.

[Ozyhibby]

https://mobile.twitter.com/citizentommy/status/1376183465130004481

Tommy Sheridan has joined the Alba Party.

Sheridan and Salmond, ****ing dream team material :greengrin.

Not sure what that means for Solidarity other than less than a few hundred votes at best in May.

Of course he has. [emoji849][emoji23]
New party turning into a right rabble.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

https://mobile.twitter.com/citizentommy/status/1376183465130004481

Tommy Sheridan has joined the Alba Party.

Sheridan and Salmond, ****ing dream team material :greengrin.

Not sure what that means for Solidarity other than less than a few hundred votes at best in May.

Sheridan was part of THE AFI team.

[Keith_M]

We have delivered 96,750 affordable homes since 2007, nearly 67,000 of which were for social rent, including 14,661 council homes.

Our plan for the next parliament is for another 100,000 affordable homes.


I think ~15k Council Houses is nowhere near enough (around 2k per year) and the focus should be on that area, as I'm not entirely convinced by the 'social' and 'affordable' housing.

However, I think what you've said is generally a positive message that needs to be communicated more widely... with the caveat that the numbers need to increased drastically.

[Skol]

Since you have ignored it twice, I'll try again.

Do you agree that debating about n iScotland future as you want during this parliament would be an easy target for unionists to claim the govt are not doing their day job?

You can’t have it both ways. The SNP have said that this election is about giving them a mandate to seek an election. Given that stated aim then they should back it up with more detail.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think ~15k Council Houses is nowhere near enough and the focus should be on that area, as I'm not entirely convinced by the 'social' and 'affordable' housing.

However, I think what you've said is generally a positive message that needs to be communicated more widely.

The 67k are housing associations. They have more estate than council now

[DaveF]

You can’t have it both ways. The SNP have said that this election is about giving them a mandate to seek an election. Given that stated aim then they should back it up with more detail.

How is that having it both ways? Saying you will push for a referendum does not mean winning it. The debate happens if one is held. Then if the yes camp don't win the economic fight they will lose as per last time.

I can't see why that's unreasonable.

[Pretty Boy]

I think ~15k Council Houses is nowhere near enough (around 2k per year) and the focus should be on that area, as I'm not entirely convinced by the 'social' and 'affordable' housing.

However, I think what you've said is generally a positive message that needs to be communicated more widely... with the caveat that the numbers need to increased drastically.

The term affordable housing is pretty broad. In Edinburgh that can mean housing rented at up to 80% of the market rental value under schemes like mid market rent, managed by housing associations.

I've seen a one bed flat in Gracemount advertised at £795 today and a 2 bed in Oxgangs for £900. I'll leave you to judge who 80% of that is affordable to. I accept Edinburgh is an anomaly in that as of 2019 it sat in the list of 50 most expensive places to rent in Europe.

I think there is a broader discussion to be had about our relationship with renting and the demographics of those who own and don't own property, inclusing multiple properties. That's just going over old ground though and it's unlikely anyone is going to change their mind.

[Santa Cruz]

I think ~15k Council Houses is nowhere near enough (around 2k per year) and the focus should be on that area, as I'm not entirely convinced by the 'social' and 'affordable' housing.

However, I think what you've said is generally a positive message that needs to be communicated more widely... with the caveat that the numbers need to increased drastically.

I would agree. The term affordable is misleading. Mid-market rent flats, assuming a person meets the strict criteria are a prime example of not being affordable. They are somewhere in between social and private sector rent prices and because they are new build, they are in the top bands of the outdated Council Tax system (I'm sure we were told in 2007 that would be reformed?), leaving many working families with very little cash, otherwise known as the working poor.

[Pretty Boy]

I would agree. The term affordable is misleading. Mid-market rent flats, assuming a person meets the strict criteria are a prime example of not being affordable. They are somewhere in between social and private sector rent prices and because they are new build, they are in the top bands of the outdated Council Tax system (I'm sure we were told in 2007 that would be reformed?), leaving many working families with very little cash, otherwise known as the working poor.

I'm mid market rent at the moment. As of next month our rent goes up to £705 a month for a 2 bed. We are looking to move to a 3 bed and rents are well over £800, touching £900 in some cases. We are another £132 a month in council tax.

The gimmick of mid market is that the money saved by not paying private market rent should be saved towards a deposit. Good luck with that one.....

[Santa Cruz]

I'm mid market rent at the moment. As of next month our rent goes up to £705 a month for a 2 bed. We are looking to move to a 3 bed and rents are well over £800, touching £900 in some cases. We are another £132 a month in council tax.

The gimmick of mid market is that the money saved by not paying private market rent should be saved towards a deposit. Good luck with that one.....

Have you considered shared ownership? There's pro's and cons to that to though.

[lord bunberry]

Unlike poor kids who couldn't home school like rich kids?
Kids who didn’t have broadband were given an iPad with a data SIM card for home schooling.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm mid market rent at the moment. As of next month our rent goes up to £705 a month for a 2 bed. We are looking to move to a 3 bed and rents are well over £800, touching £900 in some cases. We are another £132 a month in council tax.

The gimmick of mid market is that the money saved by not paying private market rent should be saved towards a deposit. Good luck with that one.....

Those prices are considerably below private market rents though?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

Have you considered shared ownership? There's pro's and cons to that to though.

We are probably a couple of years away from buying yet but we have certainly considered and looked at a lot of options.

That's probably a discussion for another day though.

[Ozyhibby]

Kids who didn’t have broadband were given an iPad with a data SIM card for home schooling.

70,000 devices have been given to kids during the pandemic. It’s now been decided that everyone should get one. There is not a lot to criticise the govt on here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Santa Cruz]

Kids who didn’t have broadband were given an iPad with a data SIM card for home schooling.

Some were missed out.


https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scots-parents-go-direct-ministers-seek-digital-devices-3127003

[Pretty Boy]

Those prices are considerably below private market rents though?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does that qualify them as affordable? In real terms rather than the broad definition of affordable housing put forward by governments.

I suppose it does in that I can just about afford one but it's an illusion that this is the solution to the ongoing housing problem.

[Keith_M]

The 67k are housing associations. They have more estate than council now


Fair enough, that sounds a bit better


:aok:


As I said, it's generally positive and the kind of thing that needs to be communicated, to let people know.

[lord bunberry]

Some were missed out.


https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scots-parents-go-direct-ministers-seek-digital-devices-3127003
I’m sure there was some who missed out, but most received the devices they needed. This is a good policy that will help kids prepare for the skills they’ll need later in life.

[lord bunberry]

70,000 devices have been given to kids during the pandemic. It’s now been decided that everyone should get one. There is not a lot to criticise the govt on here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You’d think that would be the case, but plenty seem to be doing it anyway.

[Keith_M]

Does that qualify them as affordable? In real terms rather than the broad definition of affordable housing put forward by governments.

I suppose it does in that I can just about afford one but it's an illusion that this is the solution to the ongoing housing problem.


Yeah, that's a term I'm never convinced by either.

Hence why my focus would be on the type of council (our housing association) properties that used to be quite widely available until around the 90s, when so many of them were sold off.

[Santa Cruz]

You’d think that would be the case, but plenty seem to be doing it anyway.

Many families don't need them. Target those that do, then nobody gets left behind, that's my criticism.

[Keith_M]

Some were missed out.


https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scots-parents-go-direct-ministers-seek-digital-devices-3127003


That's a rather negative take on an otherwise positive story, surely?

[Santa Cruz]

That's a rather negative take on an otherwise positive story, surely?

I was responding to a post that stated ipads and devices were given out, implying all received. Very negative experience for those who were missed.

[lord bunberry]

Many families don't need them. Target those that do, then nobody gets left behind, that's my criticism.
They’re giving them to everyone so there’s no need to target anyone. These devices are used in school so it’s never the case that many don’t need them. You can’t expect families no matter what their means are to provide learning tools for their children to be used while they’re at school. My wee one has an iPad, but she still has one they use in school that she got to bring home during the lockdown.

[Keith_M]

I was responding to a post that stated ipads and devices were given out, implying all received. Very negative experience for those who were missed.


Fair enough, I suppose we all look at things differently.

[Pretty Boy]

Yeah, that's a term I'm never convinced by either.

Hence why my focus would be on the type of council (our housing association) properties that used to be quite widely available until around the 90s, when so many of them were sold off.

The fundamental issue is that a lot of politicians, certainly at Westminster, have a stake in the property market and high rental yield is desirable to them.

It's basic demographics as well. In 1996 over 50% of 16-34 years olds owned their own homes, by 2016 that was just over 25%. By contrast about 65% of those over 65 owned their own homes in 1996, by 2016 that had risen to just over 75%. About 10% of UK adults own multiple properties and over half of them are 55+.

That's a lot of people from a demographic most likely to vote to **** off if you lower the equity in their property so governments will tip toe around it through fear of alienating voters.

Wealth inequality through the demographics is another discussion that needs had. Millenials were the 1st generation to be worse off than their parents generation in real terms. The average wage is about 20% less than their parents could have expected to earn despite generally being better educated. Gen Z and Gen Alpha look set to follow that pattern. We could assess the political and societal decisions that brought us to that point or we can call people lazy and blame them because they have iPhones and like going on holiday.

I apologise that this is some way off topic although I suppose you could argue they are issues a Scottish government, devolved or independent, is going to have to face up to.

[Santa Cruz]

They’re giving them to everyone so there’s no need to target anyone. These devices are used in school so it’s never the case that many don’t need them. You can’t expect families no matter what their means are to provide learning tools for their children to be used while they’re at school. My wee one has an iPad, but she still has one they use in school that she got to bring home during the lockdown.

I don't know if it's different in primary schools, my daughter is at Secondary and doesn't use an ipad as a significant part of her school day. We had to pay for part of her National 5 music assessment which took place remotely at a music studio, no problem with that, but families no matter what their means are asked to contribute.