Scottish Election 2021

[cabbageandribs1875]

Gammon holds eastwood


2.5k maj


kin boooo


LABOUR VOTED FOR HIM....15% DOWN KIN UNBELIEVABLE


nauseating, shameful

[weecounty hibby]

Imagine being a labour voter and lending your vote to elect Jackson Carlaw, ****bags

They aren't Labour voters. They voted Tory, that makes them Tory voters.

[Hibby Bairn]

The good thing is that tactical voting is never a long term strategy. I remember it was talked about a lot to get the Tories out in the 80/90’s but in the end what got them out was a proper campaign from Tony Blair. Tactical voting failed and it’s failing here. SNP are romping it.

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I think ACH would have won anyway. LDs have a long standing track record of local representation and visibility.

[DaveF]

Sarwar is correct when saying labour have made magnificent progress. They have cemented their relationship with the conservatives. Without shame.

[CloudSquall]

For all of Sarwars' insistence that they wouldn't work together with the Tories their voters aren't half putting in one hell of a tag team performance.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Imagine being a labour voter and lending your vote to elect Jackson Carlaw, ****bags

Auld middle class weedgies.

[cabbageandribs1875]

For all of Sarwars' insistence that they wouldn't work together with the Tories their voters aren't half putting in one hell of a tag team performance.


tbf Dross was actually appealing to labour voters, he knew full well labour couldn't officially say aye ok

[Hibby Bairn]

Gammon holds eastwood


2.5k maj


kin boooo


LABOUR VOTED FOR HIM....15% DOWN KIN UNBELIEVABLE


nauseating, shameful

They (and hundreds of thousands/millions more) aren't voting FOR Carlaw etc. They are voting to keep SNP out.

We are a divided country. Respecting each other is now very important. But it won't happen.

[weecounty hibby]

Salmond now making excuses. About as self aware as Galloway.

[Northernhibee]

Imagine being a labour voter and lending your vote to elect Jackson Carlaw, ****bags

It's not even that anymore, it's pro-indy voters vs pro-union voters. The colour of the party doesn't matter to most, just the desired outcome.

Even when I believed that we could and should be in both the UK and EU, I never, ever voted Tory. Felt in a minority on that one.

[Since90+2]

They (and hundreds of thousands/millions more) aren't voting FOR Carlaw etc. They are voting to keep SNP out.

We are a divided country. Respecting each other is now very important. But it won't happen.

We will continue to be divided until there is a referendum.

[Ozyhibby]

Basically it’s large numbers of toff parents in Marchmont and the Grange who pretend not to be tories but are at heart. They show their true colours when they move their kids to Watsons or Heriots in primary 6.

The reason they are in the grange is so they can go to Gillespie’s. Cheap skates.


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[660]

Basically it’s large numbers of toff parents in Marchmont and the Grange who pretend not to be tories but are at heart. They show their true colours when they move their kids to Watsons or Heriots in primary 6.

I went to heriots in P7 and my whole family voted SNP.

[weecounty hibby]

I honestly get the save the union thing. Don't quite understand the thinking when you see the ****show that is the Westminster government and it will be led by Tories for years to come. Voting for a Unionist party is endorsing the fact that you are happy to see the likes of Boris Johnson and other Old Etonians tell you, and I mean tell you, what you can and can't have. Makes me weep at the lack of ambition for Scotland to be better

[mayo hibee]

They (and hundreds of thousands/millions more) aren't voting FOR Carlaw etc. They are voting to keep SNP out.

We are a divided country. Respecting each other is now very important. But it won't happen.

I live in Eastwood. I'm amazed the SNP even got as close as they did, the place is full of old, rich, conservatives living in comfortable retirement communities whose highlight of the day is a trip to Waitrose. Would love to see us turn it around at some point, but it remains one of the last outposts of unionism in the central belt.

[Glory Lurker]

Are they switching the coverage off for Eastenders????

[Hibby Bairn]

I went to heriots in P7 and my whole family voted SNP.

Well said. Too much throw around categorisation on here.

[degenerated]

They (and hundreds of thousands/millions more) aren't voting FOR Carlaw etc. They are voting to keep SNP out.

We are a divided country. Respecting each other is now very important. But it won't happen.By putting an X beside jackasses name they very much are voting for him and by extension The Conservatives. Dress it up any way you want but that's a fact.

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[stoneyburn hibs]

They (and hundreds of thousands/millions more) aren't voting FOR Carlaw etc. They are voting to keep SNP out.

We are a divided country. Respecting each other is now very important. But it won't happen.

Haha absolute nonsense.
You surely have to vote for the party that you believe in?
I'd respect that, not voting for another to keep out another.
Respect that

[Hibernia&Alba]

I went to heriots in P7 and my whole family voted SNP.

Tartan Tories :wink::greengrin

[Hibby Bairn]

I live in Eastwood. I'm amazed the SNP even got as close as they did, the place is full of old, rich, conservatives living in comfortable retirement communities whose highlight of the day is a trip to Waitrose. Would love to see us turn it around at some point, but it remains one of the last outposts of unionism in the central belt.

It's the fastest growing area for young families in Scotland. They maybe just don't fancy SNP either.

As for Unionism and last bastions. Scotland is roughly 50/50 across the board. Most of the folk you describe as "unionists" are nothing of the sort. They just don't trust SNP or more broadly independence. They are not flag waving, royal loving unionists. Far from it.

[Hibby Bairn]

Haha absolute nonsense.
You surely have to vote for the party that you believe in?
I'd respect that, not voting for another to keep out another.
Respect that

You reckon. That is exactly what is happening.

[Hibby Bairn]

By putting an X beside jackasses name they very much are voting for him and by extension The Conservatives. Dress it up any way you want but that's a fact.

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That's wrong I'm afraid. People are voting here to try and boost the non SNP vote.

[Hibs Class]

And me.

Cole-Hamilton and many of his predecessors are decent local reps in my experience. But there has also been tactical voting to help the large swing.

:agree: I agree. Leaving aside the bigger picture of what the numbers in Holyrood end up as, as a resident of ACH's constituency I'd far rather have an opposition representative at Edinburgh, Scotland or UK level than a ruling party rep. From bitter personal experience dealing with SNP councillors when SNP were in control of the council was an exercise in frustration and futility - Colin Keir as a councillor was nothing more than unthinking voting fodder. ACH may well relish the opportunity to disrupt the authoritarian SNP, but for locals it feels that their voice is being heard as opposed to SNP who really don't care about local people who disagree with SNP policies .

[stoneyburn hibs]

You reckon. That is exactly what is happening.

Did you actually read my reply?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Kirkcaldy


SNP Hold

[hibsbollah]

Well said. Too much throw around categorisation on here.

There’s not nearly enough of it IMO.

[weecounty hibby]

Really need to unseat Baillie. That is the key this evening I think. Win that and an SNP majority is a real possibility

[Steven79]

Kirkcaldy


SNP HoldThat was announced ages ago.

No idea why the BBC thought it had just happened.

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[cabbageandribs1875]

SNP- 37
protest party - 4
the without any doubt whatsoever nasty party - 3
Lab- 1

[Hibby Bairn]

Did you actually read my reply?

I did. You called it "absolute nonsense".

[Glory Lurker]

Where can I keep up on Dumbarton now the BBC has decided it's not that important?

[Hibernia&Alba]

SNP- 37
protest party - 4
the without any doubt whatsoever nasty party - 3
Lab- 1

Labour with ONE! How Scotland has changed since devolution.

[Future17]

It's the fastest growing area for young families in Scotland. They maybe just don't fancy SNP either.

As for Unionism and last bastions. Scotland is roughly 50/50 across the board. Most of the folk you describe as "unionists" are nothing of the sort. They just don't trust SNP or more broadly independence. They are not flag waving, royal loving unionists. Far from it.

Is not wanting independence not essentially unionism? You don't have to wave a flag or love the royals to be a unionist.

[weecounty hibby]

Where can I keep up on Dumbarton now the BBC has decided it's not that important?

STV still on the election

[Santa Cruz]

Where can I keep up on Dumbarton now the BBC has decided it's not that important?

BBC News channel

[Future17]

There’s not nearly enough of it IMO.

Just the right amount i reckon.

[mayo hibee]

It's the fastest growing area for young families in Scotland. They maybe just don't fancy SNP either.

As for Unionism and last bastions. Scotland is roughly 50/50 across the board. Most of the folk you describe as "unionists" are nothing of the sort. They just don't trust SNP or more broadly independence. They are not flag waving, royal loving unionists. Far from it.

Actually I would suggest it's the arrival of younger voters (including myself - I moved out here in 2014 from the city) that has made an SNP win even a remote possibility. We are still far outnumbered by the older voters though. Hopefully things will change in time.

And the people you describe - if they're anti-independence then they're unionists, simple as that. They would prefer to be told what to do by Boris and his chums rather than decide for themselves. That's what unionism in Scotland is now.

[Hibby Bairn]

Is not wanting independence not essentially unionism? You don't have to wave a flag or love the royals to be a unionist.

That's the mistake those wanting independence make. There is probably 10-20% of "in the middle" people in Scotland who dislike WM and like the idea of independence. But they are educated enough to see beyond painting your face with a Saltire and having a Bank Holiday on 30th November.

They need to be convinced of the economic case otherwise they'll never back it. Meantime they probably aren't going to vote SNP as they can see that beyond Sturgeon the talent pool is very shallow.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Actually I would suggest it's the arrival of younger voters (including myself - I moved out here in 2014 from the city) that has made an SNP win even a remote possibility. We are still far outnumbered by the older voters though. Hopefully things will change in time.

And the people you describe - if they're anti-independence then they're unionists, simple as that. They would prefer to be told what to do by Boris and his chums rather than decide for themselves. That's what unionism in Scotland is now.

England's behaviour is equally important, Mayo. When socialist heartlands like Hartlepool are voting for a Tory MP, I can't see how the growing divisions will be healed. We are becoming increasingly polarised.

[Hibby Bairn]

Actually I would suggest it's the arrival of younger voters (including myself - I moved out here in 2014 from the city) that has made an SNP win even a remote possibility. We are still far outnumbered by the older voters though. Hopefully things will change in time.

And the people you describe - if they're anti-independence then they're unionists, simple as that. They would prefer to be told what to do by Boris and his chums rather than decide for themselves. That's what unionism in Scotland is now.

I don't want Boris or WM but I won't vote SNP or Yes as things stand just now.

[hibsbollah]

The reason they are in the grange is so they can go to Gillespie’s. Cheap skates.


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Which is fine. And it’s also fine to move them to private school in p6 or p7. I’d just make them repay the cost of their years of free public education back into the public purse. But I’m a raving lefty loonie which is why I’ve no one to vote for :faf:

[WeeRussell]

I don't want Boris or WM but I won't vote SNP or Yes as things stand just now.

Don’t mean to sound rude but what do you want, in that case?

[Since90+2]

That's the mistake those wanting independence make. There is probably 10-20% of "in the middle" people in Scotland who dislike WM and like the idea of independence. But they are educated enough to see beyond painting your face with a Saltire and having a Bank Holiday on 30th November.

They need to be convinced of the economic case otherwise they'll never back it. Meantime they probably aren't going to vote SNP as they can see that beyond Sturgeon the talent pool is very shallow.

Educated enough? And just a few posts ago you were saying everyone has to respect each other.

[degenerated]

That's wrong I'm afraid. People are voting here to try and boost the non SNP vote.Utter tripe, that might be how you try and justify it to yourself but the facts are inarguable and if you put your X beside the name of a Tory then that's exactly what you have voted for.

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[mayo hibee]

I don't want Boris or WM but I won't vote SNP or Yes as things stand just now.

For better or worse those are the only two available options.

[SaulGoodman]

But they are educated enough to see beyond painting your face with a Saltire and having a Bank Holiday on 30th November.

Give it a rest with that ****.

[cabbageandribs1875]

well done kate..huge majority as well

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/183532000_923315301788637_5213773381228301827_n.jp g?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=A8Xi6dWGw_MAX97UZOI&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=15a580513471ca9bcedf6955458ba7be&oe=60B9F230

[Ozyhibby]

Greens beat Labour on list vote in Edinburgh Central.


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[Peevemor]

Labour with ONE! How Scotland has changed since devolution.Is it not Labour that changed?

[Callum_62]

Greens beat Labour on list vote in Edinburgh Central.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI'm still eagerly awaiting the Abolish the Scottish Parliament Results.

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[WeeRussell]

She's a good person.

Do you mean on a personal level, as in you know her?

That could well be the case. But her appearances on the tv have only made her seem, to me, like a pain in the ar*e at best, and completely out of order at other times, as another poster alluded to.

As I say, doesn’t mean she’s not a nice person outside of politics though.

[Santa Cruz]

Which is fine. And it’s also fine to move them to private school in p6 or p7. I’d just make them repay the cost of their years of free public education back into the public purse. But I’m a raving lefty loonie which is why I’ve no one to vote for :faf:

They contribute towards state education through their taxes, a system their kids are no longer part of, while also paying their public school fees.

[Hibrandenburg]

That's the mistake those wanting independence make. There is probably 10-20% of "in the middle" people in Scotland who dislike WM and like the idea of independence. But they are educated enough to see beyond painting your face with a Saltire and having a Bank Holiday on 30th November.

They need to be convinced of the economic case otherwise they'll never back it. Meantime they probably aren't going to vote SNP as they can see that beyond Sturgeon the talent pool is very shallow.

Aye, because all SNP voters are braveheart reenactment nutters. :rolleyes:

[Green Man]

Early Lothian list results are positive for the Greens, fingers crossed for more good news tomorrow.

[weecounty hibby]

I don't want Boris or WM but I won't vote SNP or Yes as things stand just now.
By doing that you will continue to get the Old Etonians like Johnson. There is no way it will change. Have a look at England to see what us happening. The Tories will be the party in power for 80% of our future. So actually you may not want it but you're going to get it.

[Hibby Bairn]

Educated enough? And just a few posts ago you were saying everyone has to respect each other.

Aye. Probably wrong term. What I mean is they are prepared to be persuaded but want the facts. Make a decision from the head rather than just the heart.

[Skol]

I am with Hibby Bairn on this. The vast majority of no voters are not the type of Unionist that Independence supporters believe.

They are very likely to be disillusioned with the current government at westminster and equally dismayed at the level of opposition.

In Scotland they dont believe the SNP government does very well and while they make a great emotional argument, they have not backed this up with a proper case that persuades them. They are also probably quite frustrated at the level of opposition.

I think we will remain in a limbo state for some time and I dont see how we get out of the position. Until the SNP realise this and the need to appeal to more people, we will continue as we are.

[Sir David Gray]

I don't want Boris or WM but I won't vote SNP or Yes as things stand just now.

:agree: You're getting a rough time of it but that's pretty much how I see it too.

[Hibby Bairn]

Aye, because all SNP voters are braveheart reenactment nutters. :rolleyes:

Where have I said that?

[allmodcons]

That's the mistake those wanting independence make. There is probably 10-20% of "in the middle" people in Scotland who dislike WM and like the idea of independence. But they are educated enough to see beyond painting your face with a Saltire and having a Bank Holiday on 30th November.

They need to be convinced of the economic case otherwise they'll never back it. Meantime they probably aren't going to vote SNP as they can see that beyond Sturgeon the talent pool is very shallow.

Embarrassing post.

I take it you have a degree in politics and economics?

I am often being told to build bridges with soft 'No' voters but where is the reciprocation - "educated enough" - give yourself a shake.

[Sir David Gray]

I am with Hibby Bairn on this. The vast majority of no voters are not the type of Unionist that Independence supporters believe.

They are very likely to be disillusioned with the current government at westminster and equally dismayed at the level of opposition.

In Scotland they dont believe the SNP government does very well and while they make a great emotional argument, they have not backed this up with a proper case that persuades them. They are also probably quite frustrated at the level of opposition.

I think we will remain in a limbo state for some time and I dont see how we get out of the position. Until the SNP realise this and the need to appeal to more people, we will continue as we are.

:top marks Yep well said.

[Hibernia&Alba]

By doing that you will continue to get the Old Etonians like Johnson. There is no way it will change. Have a look at England to see what us happening. The Tories will be the party in power for 80% of our future. So actually you may not want it but you're going to get it.

I agree. I voted No in the previous indie vote, but things have changed, and, sadly, I don't think it's just for the short term. Scotland and England are on different and increasingly divergent paths. I can't see how the differences can be reconciled, in light of Brexit and other developments.

[Northernhibee]

That's the mistake those wanting independence make. There is probably 10-20% of "in the middle" people in Scotland who dislike WM and like the idea of independence. But they are educated enough to see beyond painting your face with a Saltire and having a Bank Holiday on 30th November.

They need to be convinced of the economic case otherwise they'll never back it. Meantime they probably aren't going to vote SNP as they can see that beyond Sturgeon the talent pool is very shallow.

I genuinely don't care for ideas of national identity too much, I want what's best for my fellow people around me. I see Indy as now the least worst option, and potentially good if we rejoin the EU. The tug on the heartstrings, saltire flags aplenty approach of persuading people has literallly no effect on me.

I know quite a few people who voted no first time around who are on the fence. You just know that the Tory media will be going hell for leather to get them back off it, but a completely different tact is required to win them over.

The second campaign needs to appeal to the head more than the heart.

[mayo hibee]

I think we will remain in a limbo state for some time and I dont see how we get out of the position. Until the SNP realise this and the need to appeal to more people, we will continue as we are.

I am genuinely interested in this point. What is it that you would want the SNP to do to appeal to these voters, let's call them soft unionists?

In terms of independence, what can they say that hasn't been said to convince people in the middle that it's a good idea? It's difficult to provide "facts" about something that is set in the future, they can certainly offer plenty of policies or another white paper, but that has all already been done.

Or would you be looking for them to entertain some kind of devo-max approach? That would seem to go against what the independence cause represents because, well, it's not independence.

[Hibby Bairn]

I genuinely don't care for ideas of national identity too much, I want what's best for my fellow people around me. I see Indy as now the least worst option, and potentially good if we rejoin the EU. The tug on the heartstrings, saltire flags aplenty approach of persuading people has literallly no effect on me.

I know quite a few people who voted no first time around who are on the fence. You just know that the Tory media will be going hell for leather to get them back off it, but a completely different tact is required to win them over.

The second campaign needs to appeal to the head more than the heart.

Agreed. I'm ready to vote Yes. But won't do so until I see a convincing economic argument and vision for Scotland and my family.

That leaves me, like thousands more, in political limboland meantime.

[Ozyhibby]

I am with Hibby Bairn on this. The vast majority of no voters are not the type of Unionist that Independence supporters believe.

They are very likely to be disillusioned with the current government at westminster and equally dismayed at the level of opposition.

In Scotland they dont believe the SNP government does very well and while they make a great emotional argument, they have not backed this up with a proper case that persuades them. They are also probably quite frustrated at the level of opposition.

I think we will remain in a limbo state for some time and I dont see how we get out of the position. Until the SNP realise this and the need to appeal to more people, we will continue as we are.


:top marks Yep well said.

Couldn’t we have a vote to try and move on from this?


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[cabbageandribs1875]

Cunninghame North - SNP Hold

[Mon Dieu4]

Baillie wins, she can go back to leaking things to the press happily again now

[Since90+2]

Labour hold Dumbarton.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Tories have returned the favour to labour voters for Carlaw

Baillie Holds

[Ozyhibby]

Lab hold Dumbarton.


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[Crunchie]

:agree: You're getting a rough time of it but that's pretty much how I see it too.
And me :aok:

[greenlex]

Really need to unseat Baillie. That is the key this evening I think. Win that and an SNP majority is a real possibility
Looks like she’s won on a tactical vote.

[cabbageandribs1875]

it's quite nauseating baillie is still in parliament, she was an utter disgrace

[weecounty hibby]

Well played the red and blue Tories. Carlaw and Baillie in due to the back slapping unionists. Never ever again will anyone who is from either of these parties be able to say they stand for different things. Decades of Tory led colonialism coming our way. Enabled by the weakest of "oppositions".

[Pagan Hibernia]

I genuinely don't care for ideas of national identity too much, I want what's best for my fellow people around me. I see Indy as now the least worst option, and potentially good if we rejoin the EU. The tug on the heartstrings, saltire flags aplenty approach of persuading people has literallly no effect on me.

I know quite a few people who voted no first time around who are on the fence. You just know that the Tory media will be going hell for leather to get them back off it, but a completely different tact is required to win them over.

The second campaign needs to appeal to the head more than the heart.

this would be how I feel about it.

nationalism of any kind leaves me cold. It’s about looking at things rationally

[stoneyburn hibs]

Couldn’t we have a vote to try and move on from this?


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😁

[Skol]

I am genuinely interested in this point. What is it that you would want the SNP to do to appeal to these voters, let's call them soft unionists?

In terms of independence, what can they say that hasn't been said to convince people in the middle that it's a good idea? It's difficult to provide "facts" about something that is set in the future, they can certainly offer plenty of policies or another white paper, but that has all already been done.

Or would you be looking for them to entertain some kind of devo-max approach? That would seem to go against what the independence cause represents because, well, it's not independence.

Interestingly you would probably categorise me as a medium unionist, maybe even hard ! What I think the SNP need to do would consist of the folloiwng:

First and foremost I would like to see the SNP govern more effectively. Their record is mixed.
I then want them to refrain from all this grievance with Boris etc and focus on the positives they can bring,
The key though is to have an honest debate about what Independence really means, the challenges, the risks and how they will be dealt with.

[Skol]

Couldn’t we have a vote to try and move on from this?


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We could, but what if its not the outcome you want?

I am now of the view that we need a 2nd referendum and pretty soon as well and accept that whatever the outcome, thats it

[Crunchie]

Where have I said that?
the snp cabal on here will eventually grind you down mate.

[DaveF]

All those wanting to be convinced of the economic argument, yet vote for unionist parties whose sole aim is to stop Indyref2 and therefore stop that economic discussion ever taking place.

[Callum_62]

1500 in it in Dumbarton

Cons lost 6.3% and Labour gained 6.1%

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[hibsbollah]

1500 in it in Dumbarton

Cons lost 6.3% and Labour gained 6.1%

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That’s quite a result for Labour. Every constituency seems to provide a different slant.

[Northernhibee]

A lot of the people who are on the fence will be because of Brexit and the resulting ****show that we've seen. Brexit was won through fantasies and fairytales and it's vital that the campaign is not fought on those grounds as it will be deja vu for that particular group.

I think it needs to be honest, that it will be difficult at first but through looking to rejoin the EU, spelling out any particular challenges to this and timescales for any plans of action. It can't be a Brexit referendum Pt. 2, it has to be a breath of fresh air.

By spelling out the future of what it means to be a part of the UK and not the EU, and also to be a part of the EU and not the UK, then you'll win the hearts and minds of that group and will win by a decent amount.

[Hibrandenburg]

Where have I said that?

"But they are educated enough to see beyond painting your face with a Saltire and having a Bank Holiday on 30th November"

You're basically saying that independence supporters aren't capable to make an educated decision.

[Hibernia&Alba]

the snp cabal on here will eventually grind you down mate.

There is no 'cabal'; everyone must be allowed to state their view without fear. I've never voted SNP in my life (I'm too far to their left) but never feel pressured by any 'cabal'. Just say what you think, and, if anyone is being too aggressive, report the post. Everyone is welcome :aok:

[Hibby Bairn]

Tories have returned the favour to labour voters for Carlaw

Baillie Holds

Collusion between people in East Ren and Dumbarton!

Same thing going on. People wanting to keep SNP out. Not voting FOR anything other than that.

[StevieC]

Greens beat Labour on list vote in Edinburgh Central.

They finished 3rd in Perthshire North as well.

[Crunchie]

There is no 'cabal'; everyone must be allowed to state their view without fear. I've never voted SNP in my life (I'm too far to their left) but never feel pressured by any 'cabal'. Just say what you think, and, if anyone is being too aggressive, report the post. Everyone is welcome :aok:
I'm an ex snp member and voted YES in the last referendum :aok:

[Hibby Bairn]

A lot of the people who are on the fence will be because of Brexit and the resulting ****show that we've seen. Brexit was won through fantasies and fairytales and it's vital that the campaign is not fought on those grounds as it will be deja vu for that particular group.

I think it needs to be honest, that it will be difficult at first but through looking to rejoin the EU, spelling out any particular challenges to this and timescales for any plans of action. It can't be a Brexit referendum Pt. 2, it has to be a breath of fresh air.

By spelling out the future of what it means to be a part of the UK and not the EU, and also to be a part of the EU and not the UK, then you'll win the hearts and minds of that group and will win by a decent amount.

Completely agree with this.

[BroxburnHibee]

It's the fastest growing area for young families in Scotland. They maybe just don't fancy SNP either.

As for Unionism and last bastions. Scotland is roughly 50/50 across the board. Most of the folk you describe as "unionists" are nothing of the sort. They just don't trust SNP or more broadly independence. They are not flag waving, royal loving unionists. Far from it.

Probably more of a case of 'Better the devil you know

SNP must do better to convince them that's for sure.

[18Craig75]

So without the gain of West Dumbartonshire an SNP majority is left on a proper knife edge. Tomorrow will be interesting...

[Hibby Bairn]

the snp cabal on here will eventually grind you down mate.

Just having a bit of Friday night banter. It's dominated in here by SNP and Indy supporters.

Those that aren't tend to just keep quiet. As I will do after tonight probably.

But to get things "over the line" then it needs more than just tugging on heartstrings. As I've said elsewhere a majority of people in Scotland are ready to vote Yes (not necessarily SNP) but won't do so until absolutely convinced of the economic case.

Of course it'll probably happen anyway as older voters die and younger people become more dominant but that might be 10-15 years away.

Meantime it's all in the balance. So rather than going on about Tories, toffs, unionists etc. take time to explain the case and the vision.

[Radium]

1999: 56 Labour

2003: 50 Labour

2007: 47 SNP (Labour 46)

2011: 69 SNP

2016: 63 SNP

Listening to a lot of the coverage it seems that not getting a majority of seats in a system designed to give representation to all views will be a failure for the SNP. That feels a tad harsh and by way of example the majority parties in each parliament are listed above.

I have been able to follow quite a lot of the coverage today and I wonder what effect the results playing out during the day will have on a reasonably astute electorate. Tactical voting has come to the fore, today it seems to have supported Lab/ Con/ Lib candidates. Wonder how the list will play out tomorrow, particularly around the Green Party.


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[Glory Lurker]

Just having a bit of Friday night banter. It's dominated in here by SNP and Indy supporters.

Those that aren't tend to just keep quiet. As I will do after tonight probably.

But to get things "over the line" then it needs more than just tugging on heartstrings. As I've said elsewhere a majority of people in Scotland are ready to vote Yes (not necessarily SNP) but won't do so until absolutely convinced of the economic case.

Of course it'll probably happen anyway as older voters die and younger people become more dominant but that might be 10-15 years away.

Meantime it's all in the balance. So rather than going on about Tories, toffs, unionists etc. take time to explain the case and the vision.

Difficult to argue with that.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/183618553_3969308666451408_1885083209552880062_n.j pg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=40s-6flcW0QAX8thMvO&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=0d9cc37264538030a16cf8ee4508dac7&oe=60BA15FC


maybe if the support that joined him weren't so aggressive towards SNP voters he may have picked up more list votes, but when you don't reel in utter s*um like "wings" and "barrheadboy" and other vile runts you can't really complain, i do understand what he's saying though, i've already voiced my concerns(rightly or wrongly) that NS insisting we play fair could maybe cost us

[Northernhibee]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/183618553_3969308666451408_1885083209552880062_n.j pg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=40s-6flcW0QAX8thMvO&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=0d9cc37264538030a16cf8ee4508dac7&oe=60BA15FC


maybe if the support that joined him weren't so aggressive towards SNP voters he may have picked up more list votes, but when you don't reel in utter s*um like "wings" and "barrheadboy" and other vile runts you can't really complain, i do understand what he's saying though, i've already voiced my concerns(rightly or wrongly) that NS insisting we play fair could maybe cost us

:agree: If the one man ego trip party want to do business with another parties voters, then they need to make themselves open to that. All they've done is muddy the waters for the less informed voter who wants to see an indy majority in Hollyrood.

[mayo hibee]

Predictions for tomorrow:

No SNP majority, but a comfortable nationalist majority

A good day for the Greens on the lists

A wash out for Alba

Salmond and Alba have done a good job of alerting SNP voters to the downside of "both votes SNP". But it won't work out to his advantage, because he's toxic now. The Greens will be the beneficiaries of a more informed electorate when it comes to the list vote.

[Glory Lurker]

Cheerio, Alex.

[DaveF]

I'm an ex snp member and voted YES in the last referendum :aok:

Lol, are you still peddling this transformational journey of yours from SNP Indy voter to unionist no voter?

[Crunchie]

Lol, are you still peddling this transformational journey of yours from SNP Indy voter to unionist no voter?
I'm not peddling anything, Dave.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Lol, are you still peddling this transformational journey of yours from SNP Indy voter to unionist no voter?


lol i was going to post that earlier but decided nah :faf:

[HiBremian]

this would be how I feel about it.

nationalism of any kind leaves me cold. It’s about looking at things rationally

Genuine question - do you regard the Greens as nationalist?


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[Future17]

Just having a bit of Friday night banter. It's dominated in here by SNP and Indy supporters.

Those that aren't tend to just keep quiet. As I will do after tonight probably.

But to get things "over the line" then it needs more than just tugging on heartstrings. As I've said elsewhere a majority of people in Scotland are ready to vote Yes (not necessarily SNP) but won't do so until absolutely convinced of the economic case.

Of course it'll probably happen anyway as older voters die and younger people become more dominant but that might be 10-15 years away.

Meantime it's all in the balance. So rather than going on about Tories, toffs, unionists etc. take time to explain the case and the vision.

I don't disagree with any of that. I just struggle to reconcile the people you describe voting for the Tories, irrespective of the motivation.

[StevieC]

SNP share of the list vote in Perthshire North - 40.0%

Greens share of the list vote in Perthshire North - 8.0%

Alba share of the list vote in Perthshire North - 1.6%

[Crunchie]

lol i was going to post that earlier but decided nah :faf:
Hilarious :faf:

[660]

the snp cabal on here will eventually grind you down mate.

The snp cabal. Boo boo too many people support SNP

[Silversand]

Good to see Steve Archibald has his heart in the right place [emoji106][emoji7]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210507/b3671205a67fbb0f57cda224babd22d4.jpg

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[cabbageandribs1875]

Motherwell

SNP Hold


that's it for tonight

[Hibernia&Alba]

Genuine question - do you regard the Greens as nationalist?


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How are we defining (N)ationalism? The blood and soil exceptionalism of the hard right or the national liberation of the left? It can mean entirely different things. The Viet Cong were nationalist; the Nazis were Nationalist. The capital N makes all the difference.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Hilarious :faf:


so weird

[Hibby Bairn]

SNP share of the list vote in Perthshire North - 40.0%

Greens share of the list vote in Perthshire North - 8.0%

Alba share of the list vote in Perthshire North - 1.6%

Non SNP/Greens/Alba share of the list vote in Perth North 50.4%

[DaveF]

Non SNP/Greens/Alba share of the list vote in Perth North 50.4%

Someone is on fire with the calculator tonight 😄

[cabbageandribs1875]

How are we defining (N)antionalism? The blood and soil exceptionalism of the hard right or the national liberation of the left? It can mean entirely different things. The Viet Cong were nationalist; the Nazis were Nationalist. The capital N makes all the difference.



and Boris Johnson knows it, just a pity Hoyle is a weak speaker, i'm sure Bercow wouldn't let him away with it

[CloudSquall]

Looking at the situation so far it looks like the SNP will fall one or two short of an outright majority, but the pro Indy side will have a healthy majority with the SNP + Green combination.


Will be interesting if they consider a formal coalition.

[Hibby Bairn]

Someone is on fire with the calculator tonight 😄

Not really Dave. Didn't need a calculator for that one. Just pointing out the balancing figure.

[660]

Non SNP/Greens/Alba share of the list vote in Perth North 50.4%

Great starting point for indyref2 campaign

[cabbageandribs1875]

so, scores on the doors for today

SNP-39
Libdems-4
THEM- 3
Labour- 2

[JimBHibees]

I honestly get the save the union thing. Don't quite understand the thinking when you see the ****show that is the Westminster government and it will be led by Tories for years to come. Voting for a Unionist party is endorsing the fact that you are happy to see the likes of Boris Johnson and other Old Etonians tell you, and I mean tell you, what you can and can't have. Makes me weep at the lack of ambition for Scotland to be better

Absolutely depressing as hell. So many with total lack of self esteem or self awareness.

[Bostonhibby]

and Boris Johnson knows it, just a pity Hoyle is a weak speaker, i'm sure Bercow wouldn't let him away with itHoyle's the sort of guy that used to work in the office of the council parks department for his entire career then when he retired they found him a nice wee part time job in charge of the crazy golf in the council park.

Not difficult to see why so many Tories were happy to see him replace Bercow.

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[Bostonhibby]

so, scores on the doors for today

SNP-39
Libdems-4
THEM- 3
Labour- 2How are the Nasty Party doing?[emoji6]

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[cabbageandribs1875]

Absolutely depressing as hell. So many with total lack of self esteem or self awareness.


i still blame State TV and the Tory-owned papers, there's still lots in Scotland that can only rely on what they are told by that lot, all we want is Balance and we simply won't get it.

as the saying goes "whoever controls the Media, controls the Mind"


if only some "don't knows" would be adventurous and have a read at the National now and then, they can also be critical but at least you get to read an alternative to deliberate unionist lies, and the McCrone report

[cabbageandribs1875]

How are the Nasty Party doing?[emoji6]

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they're still a shower of THEM ****s :grr:

[Hibernia&Alba]

and Boris Johnson knows it, just a pity Hoyle is a weak speaker, i'm sure Bercow wouldn't let him away with it

Is Johnson a true Nationalist or will he do anything for his advancement? I don't think he believes in anything beyond his own existence: a true solipsist. For me he's an empty vessel, devoid any content. He represents the dumbing down of politics. Michael Foot on the left and Enoch Powell on the right would both despise him.

[Bostonhibby]

Is Johnson a true Nationalist or will he do anything for his advancement? I don't think he believes in anything beyond his own existence: a true solipsist. For me he's an empty vessel, devoid any content. He represents the dumbing down of politics. Michael Foot on the left and Enoch Powell on the right would both despise him.One of his critics in his party said of Bozo that he craves popularity and is the sort of person who sees which way the crowd is running then gets to the front and say right everyone, follow me.

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[Hibernia&Alba]

One of his critics in his party said of Bozo that he craves popularity and is the sort of person who sees which way the crowd is running then gets to the front and say right everyone, follow me.

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Indeed, and I see no principles, just self-glorification. An amoral egotist.

[StevieC]

Non SNP/Greens/Alba share of the list vote in Perth North 50.4%

Independence parties 49.6%
Unionist parties 47.8%
Others (independants, spoiled ballots, etc.) 2.6%

😉

[Hibby Bairn]

Independence parties 49.6%
Unionist parties 47.8%
Others (independants, spoiled ballots, etc.) 2.6%

😉

😀 fair dos. Needed a calculator for that one.

[Bostonhibby]

Indeed, and I see no principles, just self-glorification. An amoral egotist.There's a hell of a lot of people who would buy a used car from him just now.

Another matter entirely when it comes to claiming on the warranty.

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[Glory Lurker]

Independence parties 49.6%
Unionist parties 47.8%
Others (independants, spoiled ballots, etc.) 2.6%

😉

Mon the independence-enabling spoiled ballots!

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210507/099e3490be8f868bfc4b70aa15ea1d38.jpg
Do as yir tell Scotland.


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[Hibrandenburg]

Independence parties 49.6%
Unionist parties 47.8%
Others (independants, spoiled ballots, etc.) 2.6%

😉

You can bet there's a good few Labour supporters who can be persuaded that Labour would do well in an independent Scotland, probably even some tories, there will of course also be a few SNP voters who'd vote against independence but they'd be dwarfed by converts from the 2 main opposition parties. I'm feeling much more confident about Scotland's future after today and hopefully that will continue into tomorrow.

[SHODAN]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210507/099e3490be8f868bfc4b70aa15ea1d38.jpg
Do as yir tell Scotland.


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Looking forward to seeing what atrocious gerrymandered constituency I'll be voting in in 2024. Maybe they'll stick West Fife in with Kinross.

[weecounty hibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210507/099e3490be8f868bfc4b70aa15ea1d38.jpg
Do as yir tell Scotland.


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Yip, do as your told is only the start of it. Wait until they continue on the path if removing devolved powers. Then what, again the Tiries will lap it up and Labour will just go along with it as they seem to be doing all over the UK.

[Skol]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210507/099e3490be8f868bfc4b70aa15ea1d38.jpg
Do as yir tell Scotland.


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The best thing Boris could do is call Nicola on Sunday and arrange the next independence referendum

[Moulin Yarns]

SNP share of the list vote in Perthshire North - 40.0%

Greens share of the list vote in Perthshire North - 8.0%

Alba share of the list vote in Perthshire North - 1.6%

Bloody both votes SNP 🙄


😉

[Crunchie]

The best thing Boris could do is call Nicola on Sunday and arrange the next independence referendum
The best thing tricky nicky could do is concentrate leading the country out of this pandemic.

[Moulin Yarns]

Non SNP/Greens/Alba share of the list vote in Perth North 50.4%

Split between about 10 parties 😉

[weecounty hibby]

The best thing tricky nicky could do is concentrate leading the country out of this pandemic.

Have you got any funny wee names for the man who was talking about bodies piling up in the streets and has made sure that a pretty close knit group of friends, family and party donors have made billions out of the pandemic?

[AugustaHibs]

Nicola has told journalists she is pushing for a referendum and Boris will have to go to the Supreme Court to stop her 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[Glory Lurker]

The best thing Boris could do is call Nicola on Sunday and arrange the next independence referendum

Provided the question and the suffrage is the same as last time, and there's an allowance for covid recovery, which would chime with the tory anti-ref argument then, yes, great idea!

[Crunchie]

Have you got any funny wee names for the man who was talking about bodies piling up in the streets and has made sure that a pretty close knit group of friends, family and party donors have made billions out of the pandemic?
You've pretty much covered all the name calling.

[weecounty hibby]

You've pretty much covered all the name calling.

Show me

[Hibby Bairn]

The best thing tricky nicky could do is concentrate leading the country out of this pandemic.

And then repair Maybury Road and maybe even arrange some road markings. Things like lane markings, give way signs etc.

[SHODAN]

My prediction is that it'll be 64 seats for the SNP. One off a majority.

Every other constituency seat will hold, they'll get two list seats in the Highlands and one in the south.

[DaveF]

And then repair Maybury Road and maybe even arrange some road markings. Things like lane markings, give way signs etc.

You are saved

https://images.app.goo.gl/ZH9f5a1kcj9mQLm47

[JeMeSouviens]

The best thing Boris could do is call Nicola on Sunday and arrange the next independence referendum

I think you’re right. Unionism has a 50% or maybe slightly higher chance of project fear 2 winning. Leave it 5 years and I thnk the demographics might just be irretrievable for them.

Leaves me in a personal conundrum. I think every day’s delay in getting on with indy is damaging but the prospect of indy success would be greatly enhanced by winning high 50s % vs barely getting over the line.

Happily I think the choice will be made for us as Johnson is way too dithery to go for it, so it will take a few years of legal wrangles to get there.

[ronaldo7]

My prediction is that it'll be 64 seats for the SNP. One off a majority.

Every other constituency seat will hold, they'll get two list seats in the Highlands and one in the south.

And 10 greens. ✅

[JeMeSouviens]

My prediction is that it'll be 64 seats for the SNP. One off a majority.

Every other constituency seat will hold, they'll get two list seats in the Highlands and one in the south.

Yep, sounds about right. Hope they do coalition with Greens and are pushed hard on land reform and climate.

[Jack]

Have you got any funny wee names for the man who was talking about bodies piling up in the streets and has made sure that a pretty close knit group of friends, family and party donors have made billions out of the pandemic?

Boris Prince of Thieves?

[Ozyhibby]

The best thing tricky nicky could do is concentrate leading the country out of this pandemic.

Yeh, always felt she wasn’t giving it as much focus as Johnson.[emoji849]


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[StevieC]

Split between about 10 parties 😉

13 to be precise 😉

[Callum_62]

My prediction is that it'll be 64 seats for the SNP. One off a majority.

Every other constituency seat will hold, they'll get two list seats in the Highlands and one in the south.That would be a crazy 87.7% of the first past the post seats (and likley painted as failure)

I believe the tories in Westminster currently hold a whopping majority with 68% of the available first past the post seats

Edit - might be a a few percent too high,. Didn't see the 3 list seats

It would be about 83.5% of FPTP seats

Correct me if I'm wrong there as I calculated that about 10 times [emoji23]

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[Skol]

I think you’re right. Unionism has a 50% or maybe slightly higher chance of project fear 2 winning. Leave it 5 years and I thnk the demographics might just be irretrievable for them.

Leaves me in a personal conundrum. I think every day’s delay in getting on with indy is damaging but the prospect of indy success would be greatly enhanced by winning high 50s % vs barely getting over the line.

Happily I think the choice will be made for us as Johnson is way too dithery to go for it, so it will take a few years of legal wrangles to get there.

Putting aside the Project Fear which I dont think is helpful, I agree. No would win a 2nd referendum right now, but as time passes the chances of yes winning will increase.

Nicola will not seek a referendum because she knows losing will put an end to Independence for a long time

Boris will just sit tight hoping it all blows over

[Ozyhibby]

The best thing Boris could do is call Nicola on Sunday and arrange the next independence referendum

I’m desperately hoping he sticks with his promise to say no. I realise I’m not the first to hope he keeps his promises.


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[Hibernia&Alba]

I’m desperately hoping he sticks with his promise to say no. I realise I’m not the first to hope he keeps his promises.


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Not least his wives and girlfriends.

[wookie70]

Yep, sounds about right. Hope they do coalition with Greens and are pushed hard on land reform and climate.

That is what I want. The SNP 1-2 will likely be very damaging for Indy. I get why she went for that but the way results went today showed very graphically that winning a constituency often means losing a list seat. That is the whole point of the system. While I am glad Alba amounted to nothing there is much to e said for not wasting Pro Indy second votes and The Scottish Greens could have the potential of being the second biggest party of Indi voters gave their second votes to them. It makes no sense to me why Indi voters are so happy to waste their second votes. Now the Unionists have decided policies are not important as they are decided in WM anyway the Indi parties really need to start thinking tactically

[Bostonhibby]

I’m desperately hoping he sticks with his promise to say no. I realise I’m not the first to hope he keeps his promises.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHes just a boy who can't say no, so say the various mothers of his many offspring, acknowledged or not.

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[JimBHibees]

i still blame State TV and the Tory-owned papers, there's still lots in Scotland that can only rely on what they are told by that lot, all we want is Balance and we simply won't get it.

as the saying goes "whoever controls the Media, controls the Mind"


if only some "don't knows" would be adventurous and have a read at the National now and then, they can also be critical but at least you get to read an alternative to deliberate unionist lies, and the McCrone report

Totally agree. Blanket pro unionist media and still SNP are the biggest party by far. Quite exceptional when you consider 14 years in power and the anti media.

[Hibrandenburg]

I’m desperately hoping he sticks with his promise to say no. I realise I’m not the first to hope he keeps his promises.


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Patience in this scenario is definitely a virtue. The tide will turn against the Tories sooner rather than later and English nationalism will continue to alienate more and more Scots from the union. The core electorate of this Tory government are English Nationalists and the Tories depend on that, he can't be seen to pander to the subsidy junkies North of the border so his actions in securing that support will only increase Scottish support for independence. Tic tock.

[lord bunberry]

I can’t stress how much it saddens me to see the people of England voting the way they are. Obviously my main goal is Scottish independence, but that doesn’t stop me thinking about how circumstances have led working class people in the north of England voting Tory. I stayed down in Hartlepool a few years ago for a week and the people were so nice. The narrative that they’re all brexit supporting racists just doesn’t hold true for me. The fact that Labour have failed these people and the only way they see their lives improving is to vote Tory is beyond depressing. I don’t know what the answer is for these people, but it’s not Boris.

[Ryan91]

Looking at the situation so far it looks like the SNP will fall one or two short of an outright majority, but the pro Indy side will have a healthy majority with the SNP + Green combination.


Will be interesting if they consider a formal coalition.

Suspect the arrangement will be much like before, an informal agreement where Greens provide backing to SNP on key votes in exchange for the SNP making certain concessions to the Greens.

A bit of a shame as I'd like to see Patrick Harvie in Govt

[cabbageandribs1875]

i read 80% of votes were counted before the accident, will re-commence tomorrow morning


Aberdeenshire East Scottish election count paused 'for welfare of staff' (pressandjournal.co.uk) (https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen/3122311/aberdeenshire-east-scottish-election/)

North-east election officials paused vote-counting to protect the “welfare of staff” after the process in the Aberdeenshire East seat was hit by delays.


“The ballot boxes will be kept in secure storage overnight, and they were in the exact same secure storage on Thursday night. There are security guards and CCTV, and the papers are back in ballot boxes, which are zip-tied secure.


only Baroness Davidson/Murray Dross will have access to the boxes:agree:


presently an SNP Majority of just under 6k

[Callum_62]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeqnpHGf/

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[cabbageandribs1875]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeqnpHGf/

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NS is an absolute star, a gift from heaven even :)

[stantonhibby]

i still blame State TV and the Tory-owned papers, there's still lots in Scotland that can only rely on what they are told by that lot, all we want is Balance and we simply won't get it.

as the saying goes "whoever controls the Media, controls the Mind"


if only some "don't knows" would be adventurous and have a read at the National now and then, they can also be critical but at least you get to read an alternative to deliberate unionist lies, and the McCrone report

And to think someone got pulled up earlier for talking about 'educated' voters. And you get this arrogant drivel. Basically if we're not voting SNP it's because of the media

[The Harp Awakes]

My prediction is that it'll be 64 seats for the SNP. One off a majority.

Every other constituency seat will hold, they'll get two list seats in the Highlands and one in the south.

If the SNP hold on to all their remaining 2016 constituency seats, I think you may well be right with a total of 64.

I think there is sill a chance of a majority of 65 though, if they gain Aberdeenshire West. If they do, SNP can get 65 through a Highland list seat and either gaining Galloway & West Dumfries or if the lose the latter, they could alternatively hold onto a South of Scotland list seat.

Winning Galloway & West Dumfries will mean literally no chance of winning a South of Scotland list seat, so no net gain there.

Aberdeenshire West is therefore crucial to the SNP winning a majority.

[cabbageandribs1875]

And to think someone got pulled up earlier for talking about 'educated' voters. And you get this arrogant drivel. Basically if we're not voting SNP it's because of the media


know what to do with yer drivel :aok: wee shame yer hurting though

[Kato]

I think you’re right. Unionism has a 50% or maybe slightly higher chance of project fear 2 winning. Leave it 5 years and I thnk the demographics might just be irretrievable for them.

Leaves me in a personal conundrum. I think every day’s delay in getting on with indy is damaging but the prospect of indy success would be greatly enhanced by winning high 50s % vs barely getting over the line.

Happily I think the choice will be made for us as Johnson is way too dithery to go for it, so it will take a few years of legal wrangles to get there.

Depending on how brexit progresses in Scotland that 5 years could be halved, imho.

[Glory Lurker]

Imagine a party won 47-49% in a UK election. Would anybody in their craziest moment say it was a poor result?

[cabbageandribs1875]

A Liberal Party member who confronted the SNP MSP Humza Yousaf at a Glasgow election count has been suspended.

Scottish election 2021: Liberal Party member suspended over Yousaf confrontation - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-57025065)

[Hibrandenburg]

Alex Deane on Sky News saying that Boris Johnson denying Scotland another referendum is "well within his rights". This is going to be the media narrative in the coming days, bring it on.

[stantonhibby]

know what to do with yer drivel :aok: wee shame yer hurting though

No hurt here. Despite a great result for SNP think you were the one still gurning.
Will let you get back to your copy and pasting👍

[cabbageandribs1875]

Totally agree. Blanket pro unionist media and still SNP are the biggest party by far. Quite exceptional when you consider 14 years in power and the anti media.


unfortunately not everyone in Scotland has access to foreign media outlets jim, if people want to see some positive news on how an independent Scotland would succeed it's essential watching/reading for balance

[lord bunberry]

Alex Deane on Sky News saying that Boris Johnson denying Scotland another referendum is "well within his rights". This is going to be the media narrative in the coming days, bring it on.
It may well be, but the union is based on consent. The minute that the consent is withdrawn it becomes a union of force. The worst thing boris could do now is deny a second referendum. I hope he does.

[Glory Lurker]

It may well be, but the union is based on consent. The minute that the consent is withdrawn it becomes a union of force. The worst thing boris could do now is deny a second referendum. I hope he does.

Equal partners, no less!

[lord bunberry]

Equal partners, no less!
Federal even

[SHODAN]

The three big seats tomorrow will be Aberdeenshire West, Perthshire South and Pentlands.

IF the SNP can win all three of them, I think they'll get a majority. Really tall ask, though.

[Glory Lurker]

Federal even

Did you not listen to Zammo and the Grange Hill kids?

[lord bunberry]

Did you not listen to Zammo and the Grange Hill kids?
Yes but sadly the very obvious message didn’t get through, what was it again?

[ekhibee]

Pretty pathetic voting system IMO, and unlike some others I don't think it is either fair or representative of the population. How can the Tories get as many seats as they did in the last election, they didn't win them, the seats were passed down to them due to a complex mathematical formula. It made people like Ruth Davidson look a lot more influential than she actually was.

[Sir David Gray]

Pretty pathetic voting system IMO, and unlike some others I don't think it is either fair or representative of the population. How can the Tories get as many seats as they did in the last election, they didn't win them, the seats were passed down to them due to a complex mathematical formula. It made people like Ruth Davidson look a lot more influential than she actually was.

In 2016 the Conservatives won 24% of the seats on offer after getting just over 22% of the vote. How is that not fair?

It's not perfect but it prevents a scenario that happens in the constituencies where the SNP won over 80% of the seats on offer in 2016 despite only getting 46.5% of the vote.

[lord bunberry]

Pretty pathetic voting system IMO, and unlike some others I don't think it is either fair or representative of the population. How can the Tories get as many seats as they did in the last election, they didn't win them, the seats were passed down to them due to a complex mathematical formula. It made people like Ruth Davidson look a lot more influential than she actually was.
It’s a fair representation of what people voted for. If you lose a constituency vote by a few votes is it fair that that the voters of that candidate have no representation?

[The Harp Awakes]

In 2016 the Conservatives won 24% of the seats on offer after getting just over 22% of the vote. How is that not fair?

It's not perfect but it prevents a scenario that happens in the constituencies where the SNP won over 80% of the seats on offer in 2016 despite only getting 46.5% of the vote.

You make a fair point. The big problem with the Holyrood voting system though is you get zoomers like Murdo Fraser continually getting a list seat, when they have never had any electoral scrutiny.

[CloudSquall]

I did think Jack McConnell had a good idea when he suggested term limits for list candidates which would put an end to continuous losers like Murdo Fraser.

[Hibs90]

The BBC already trying to downplay the result. Diddums.

[Santa Cruz]

I did think Jack McConnell had a good idea when he suggested term limits for list candidates which would put an end to continuous losers like Murdo Fraser.

Can you remind me how long Patrick Harvie has been an MSP and then list all the constituency seats he's won in that time? I've no idea if he's standing for a constituency in this election, I'm more interested in his previous electoral history.

[Ozyhibby]

You make a fair point. The big problem with the Holyrood voting system though is you get zoomers like Murdo Fraser continually getting a list seat, when they have never had any electoral scrutiny.


I did think Jack McConnell had a good idea when he suggested term limits for list candidates which would put an end to continuous losers like Murdo Fraser.

I don’t agree. If Fraser is a zoomer (he is) then that’s a problem for the Tories. I suspect he is quite popular with their core voters though and therefor is perfectly suitable to represent them.
I don’t agree with McConnell. Term limits for list MSP’s would create two classes of MSP’s and that’s not what the parliament is supposed to be about.
I think the parliament does a good job of reflecting Scotland with the current system.


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[Bristolhibby]

Pretty pathetic voting system IMO, and unlike some others I don't think it is either fair or representative of the population. How can the Tories get as many seats as they did in the last election, they didn't win them, the seats were passed down to them due to a complex mathematical formula. It made people like Ruth Davidson look a lot more influential than she actually was.

You can counter that saying a FPTP loses the voice of millions of people who happen to live in a stronghold. Their voice is there, just lost in the winner takes all of FPTP.

I hate FPTP, a true PR system is fairer. Yes, bams would get a voice. But it will represent the “will of the people”.

PR does lose the representative connection to the locality, that’s why I like the system in Scotland, it’s a mix of the two.

Try living in Wiltshire! Blue central down here.

J

[Bristolhibby]

I did think Jack McConnell had a good idea when he suggested term limits for list candidates which would put an end to continuous losers like Murdo Fraser.

That’s a good point and an excellent compromise.

Listers should have the metal to back themselves at some point.

J

[Mon Dieu4]

BBC news have just told Swinney that because the SNP had targeted 5 gains yesterday but only got 3 its some kind of failure, couldn't make this **** up

[degenerated]

You make a fair point. The big problem with the Holyrood voting system though is you get zoomers like Murdo Fraser continually getting a list seat, when they have never had any electoral scrutiny.Murdo Fraser has had electoral scrutiny, 8 times he's been told now.

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[Pretty Boy]

It's quite simple now.

I can't imagine too many people who would describe themselves as socialist, left wing, even to the left of centre left are voting SNP based on policy or record. I could be wrong but I can't quite square how the would be possible in my head.

They have been trusted again as the vehicle to deliver a referendum and then independence so that is what they should do and the process should start immediately. Not 'when the time is right', not after a 'vote for us in the next Westminster election to send a message' campaign but now. If the UK govt chooses to obstruct that process then it can only help any Yes movement. If the case is strong enough then the time will always be right. However the media try to dress it up this is another huge victory for the SNP, it's time to deliver on the promise that keeps people a lot of people voting for them.

There's been too much talking and too many sticking plasters over the symptoms of poverty in Scotland rather than dealing with the root causes of it. If the case is strong then be brave enough to put it to the Scottish people now and let's get on with it. The process is going to be a drawn out affair and we really don't have time to waste.

[McSwanky]

BBC news have just told Swinney that because the SNP had targeted 5 gains yesterday but only got 3 its some kind of failure, couldn't make this **** upFor the SNP to even come close to getting a majority in a system which was designed to stop that from happening is some feat. The fact that they've done it consistently over the last 3 votes is nothing short of amazing, and it's pretty disingenuous of any media outlet to paint 63 or 64 seats as a failure. Sadly though, I'm not surprised.

[Santa Cruz]

I don’t agree. If Fraser is a zoomer (he is) then that’s a problem for the Tories. I suspect he is quite popular with their core voters though and therefor is perfectly suitable to represent them.
I don’t agree with McConnell. Term limits for list MSP’s would create two classes of MSP’s and that’s not what the parliament is supposed to be about.
I think the parliament does a good job of reflecting Scotland with the current system.


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No voting system is perfect The only criticism I have of our voting system is, still after 20 odd years far too many voters don't understand the formula used to elect List MSP's. I'm not sure how that could be simplified, but we should have a voting system that is easy to understand which is why FPTP was the system people voted to keep in G.E's.

[danhibees1875]

No voting system is perfect The only criticism I have of our voting system is, still after 20 odd years far too many voters don't understand the formula used to elect List MSP's. I'm not sure how that could be simplified, but we should have a voting system that is easy to understand which is why FPTP was the system people voted to keep in G.E's.

I like the system, it provides both proportionality and an array of political parties to choose from representing "your area".

I don't think it needs simplified. The regional votes are divided by the number of seats the party has already won plus 1, and the the biggest number wins. Repeat, accounting for the new seat won.

I'm not sure how you'd simplify that without losing at least one of the areas that I like about the system. :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Last time in 2016, the SNP got 59 constituencies out of 73. This time they’ve got 39 out of 48, but counting them up, crucially there’s only 2 non SNP constituencies left to count Aberdeen West and Galloway in the borders. The other 23 remaining seats are all held by the SNP. If everyone’s vote remains solid that would leave a final constituency count of 62-11 with just the list seats left. Even if the pattern of list seat results were as bad for the SNP as it was last time, there’s no way they won’t get a minimum of two list seats to take them over the magic 65 to a majority.

Which is a long winded way of saying for the SNP to not win an overall majority, the Tories and Labour will have to make a number of gains in key marginals today. I think an overall maj is more likely than not as things stand.

[Santa Cruz]

It's quite simple now.

I can't imagine too many people who would describe themselves as socialist, left wing, even to the left of centre left are voting SNP based on policy or record. I could be wrong but I can't quite square how the would be possible in my head.

They have been trusted again as the vehicle to deliver a referendum and then independence so that is what they should do and the process should start immediately. Not 'when the time is right', not after a 'vote for us in the next Westminster election to send a message' campaign but now. If the UK govt chooses to obstruct that process then it can only help any Yes movement. If the case is strong enough then the time will always be right. However the media try to dress it up this is another huge victory for the SNP, it's time to deliver on the promise that keeps people a lot of people voting for them.

There's been too much talking and too many sticking plasters over the symptoms of poverty in Scotland rather than dealing with the root causes of it. If the case is strong then be brave enough to put it to the Scottish people now and let's get on with it. The process is going to be a drawn out affair and we really don't have time to waste.

Sturgeon is the smartest politician in the UK and far too astute to call for a referendum that she's not confident she will win. It's her ambition, but she won't want her legacy to be losing another Ref or taking Scotland out of the UK into an economic disaster coming out of a pandemic. She will now come under mounting pressure from her own party. She'll either hold her position until the timings right or she'll resign at some stage. In the meantime she'll continue to say Boris a lot when her Gov fails to deliver. Hopefully we'll get some dates next week when our free dental treatment begins, our kids laptops and free bus passes will arrive etc.

[lapsedhibee]

Last time in 2016, the SNP got 59 constituencies out of 73. This time they’ve got 39 out of 48, but counting them up, crucially there’s only 2 non SNP constituencies left to count Aberdeen West and Galloway in the borders. The other 23 remaining seats are all held by the SNP. If everyone’s vote remains solid that would leave a final constituency count of 62-11 with just the list seats left. Even if the pattern of list seat results were as bad for the SNP as it was last time, there’s no way they won’t get a minimum of two list seats to take them over the magic 65 to a majority.

Which is a long winded way of saying for the SNP to not win an overall majority, the Tories and Labour will have to make a number of gains in key marginals today. I think an overall maj is more likely than not as things stand.

That's yam talk, 62+2=65. :tsk tsk:

[Moulin Yarns]

13 to be precise 😉

👍


Can you give me the percentage of votes for each of these? I'm interested in doing a calculation for the list seats across the board.

Thanks in advance.

[Santa Cruz]

I like the system, it provides both proportionality and an array of political parties to choose from representing "your area".

I don't think it needs simplified. The regional votes are divided by the number of seats the party has already won plus 1, and the the biggest number wins. Repeat, accounting for the new seat won.

I'm not sure how you'd simplify that without losing at least one of the areas that I like about the system. :greengrin

I don't dislike the system personally. You understand how it works, I just don't think a lot of voters do.

[hibsbollah]

That's yam talk, 62+2=65. :tsk tsk:

OK two would be insufficient, three would be sufficient. The double negative ****ed me. ‘There is no way they will only get two’.

[ronaldo7]

You make a fair point. The big problem with the Holyrood voting system though is you get zoomers like Murdo Fraser continually getting a list seat, when they have never had any electoral scrutiny.

The SNP broke the system in 2011 by getting a majority, but in 2016 got a bigger share of the vote, and got fewer seats.

Those who want to stand in the way of the democratic process, can't really be called political parties. If we can't get what the people voted for, we live in a dictatorship.

If there is a majority of MSP's in our parliament who wish a second referendum it should happen.

Those who wish to stay in the union should make their case. It's been asked on here for months...nothing yet.

[hibsbollah]

John Curtice disagrees with me :greengrin ‘an overall majority is still a long shot’.

[CloudSquall]

Can you remind me how long Patrick Harvie has been an MSP and then list all the constituency seats he's won in that time? I've no idea if he's standing for a constituency in this election, I'm more interested in his previous electoral history.

Sorry I have a life.

[lapsedhibee]

OK two would be insufficient, three would be sufficient. The double negative ****ed me. ‘There is no way they will only get two’.

4 list seats last time in 2016, when the SNP 'only' got 59 constituency seats. If they get 62 constituency seats this time, it's a push to assume they'll get 3 or more list seats.

[Santa Cruz]

The SNP broke the system in 2011 by getting a majority, but in 2016 got a bigger share of the vote, and got fewer seats.

Those who want to stand in the way of the democratic process, can't really be called political parties. If we can't get what the people voted for, we live in a dictatorship.

If there is a majority of MSP's in our parliament who wish a second referendum it should happen.

Those who wish to stay in the union should make their case. It's been asked on here for months...nothing yet.

Sorry, I'm not clear, who do you want to make the case for the union, pro-union politicians, or posters on here?

[Santa Cruz]

Sorry I have a life.

Cool. :aok:

[hibsbollah]

4 list seats last time in 2016, when the SNP 'only' got 59 constituency seats. If they get 62 constituency seats this time, it's a push to assume they'll get 3 or more list seats.

But three in the bag is worth two in the bush. Or something.

[ronaldo7]

Sorry, I'm not clear, who do you want to make the case for the union, pro-union politicians, or posters on here?

Both.

[Ozyhibby]

Sorry, I'm not clear, who do you want to make the case for the union, pro-union politicians, or posters on here?

Anybody would be more than are doing it now.


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[Moulin Yarns]

I don't dislike the system personally. You understand how it works, I just don't think a lot of voters do.

That's not the systems fault, it is voter ignorance or apathy.

If more voters understood the system they wouldn't be putting the list vote in the same party as often as the SNP voters have. 😉

[Barney McGrew]

The BBC’s insistence on painting the results as poor for the SNP when they’ve added three constituency seats and increased their share of the vote is bonkers.

[ronaldo7]

The BBC’s insistence on painting the results as poor for the SNP when they’ve added three constituency seats and increased their share of the vote is bonkers.

Had we lost 3 constituencies they'd have had Anas as FM

[hibsbollah]

The BBC’s insistence on painting the results as poor for the SNP when they’ve added three constituency seats and increased their share of the vote is bonkers.

...and leaving aside the reality that our model of PR is specifically designed to avoid overall majorities, that’s the point of it. Swimmer could have explained this to Robinson better.

[Santa Cruz]

That's not the systems fault, it is voter ignorance or apathy.

If more voters understood the system they wouldn't be putting the list vote in the same party as often as the SNP voters have. 😉

I don't agree that it's ignorance or apathy. I think people are more comfortable with FPTP because they don't have to sit and make the sort of calculations you have for this election. Tbf any SNP voter who did give them both votes were following the Party line, they probably thought they were doing the right thing because they don't understand the formula used to elect List MSP's.

[Hibs90]

Don’t know why people bother with the BBC. State controlled and was always going to try play down the result of this election.

[ronaldo7]

I don't agree that it's ignorance or apathy. I think people are more comfortable with FPTP because they don't have to sit and make the sort of calculations you have for this election. Tbf any SNP voter who did give them both votes were following the Party line, they probably thought they were doing the right thing because they don't understand the formula used to elect List MSP's.

Is it the same for Labour, Tories, or lib dems, or is it just the SNP members who don't understand the system?

[Moulin Yarns]

I don't agree that it's ignorance or apathy. I think people are more comfortable with FPTP because they don't have to sit and make the sort of calculations you have for this election. Tbf any SNP voter who did give them both votes were following the Party line, they probably thought they were doing the right thing because they don't understand the formula used to elect List MSP's.

If they don't understand the formula then you can say that they are ignorant of the system. It really is quite simple, anyone can do it with a spreadsheet, or a calculator.

Yes, voters were following the party lines, like sheep, while the unionist parties got the message out with a clear strategy to vote for the party with the best chance to stop the SNP winning constituency seats was to vote for the second placed party.

[Santa Cruz]

Is it the same for Labour, Tories, or lib dems, or is it just the SNP members who don't understand the system?

I never said all voters, but I would say many across all Party's. I referenced the SNP in response to MY's point about both votes to the SNP.

[Sergio sledge]

Andy Wightman won’t be returning. Only about 200 votes.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWhere are you seeing this? Disappointing but not a surprise, he had very little coverage up here and very few people knew he was standing. So hard for an independent to get elected.

I voted for him on the list vote partly because I think it is important that there are some voices in parliament not tied to a party and not bound by party politics.

[ronaldo7]

I never said all voters, but I would say many across all Party's. I referenced the SNP in response to MY's point about both votes to the SNP.

Thanks. If you don't mind me asking, did you vote both votes Labour?

[Hibrandenburg]

Is it the same for Labour, Tories, or lib dems, or is it just the SNP members who don't understand the system?

Not educated enough apparently.

[Santa Cruz]

If they don't understand the formula then you can say that they are ignorant of the system. It really is quite simple, anyone can do it with a spreadsheet, or a calculator.

Yes, voters were following the party lines, like sheep, while the unionist parties got the message out with a clear strategy to vote for the party with the best chance to stop the SNP winning constituency seats was to vote for the second placed party.

Do you honestly think you're average voter wants to be using a calculator or Excel? They don't, they want to put an X in a box. I just think the system and formula used should be clearer so it's easier for voters to understand.

[Stick]

Is it the same for Labour, Tories, or lib dems, or is it just the SNP members who don't understand the system?

I think the difference was that the snp were heavily pushing the “give us both votes line”, when the Tories and labour were saying “ give us the list votes to stop the snp”. I can understand why the snp pushed this, though I think it was wrong, as I understand the voting system. But it is correct that most people don’t understand the system and believe what the snp said. Likewise most Tory and labour supporters don’t understand the system but did what they were told. Their problem was that the unionist parties didn’t coordinate very well within the regions, so the effect was very limited. If the Tories and labour had got together and agreed to split the regions between them, then made sure their supporters knew when to vote for the other party, the election results would have a lot different,

[SHODAN]

When do results start rolling in today?

[ronaldo7]

I think the difference was that the snp were heavily pushing the “give us both votes line”, when the Tories and labour were saying “ give us the list votes to stop the snp”. I can understand why the snp pushed this, though I think it was wrong, as I understand the voting system. But it is correct that most people don’t understand the system and believe what the snp said. Likewise most Tory and labour supporters don’t understand the system but did what they were told. Their problem was that the unionist parties didn’t coordinate very well within the regions, so the effect was very limited. If the Tories and labour had got together and agreed to split the regions between them, then made sure their supporters knew when to vote for the other party, the election results would have a lot different,

I get that. I also heard Anas continually telling the electorate, both votes Labour. The Tories were the ones mentioning stopping the SNP, with wee Willie just trying to keep the seats he has.

It's the system designed by the unionists to ensure no overall majority, but if the SNP don't get that majority, it's somehow a failure.

It looks like we're getting beaten with both sticks.

[hibsbollah]

Do you honestly think you're average voter wants to be using a calculator or Excel? They don't, they want to put an X in a box. I just think the system and formula used should be clearer so it's easier for voters to understand.

But is the main purpose of an electoral system to be easy to understand, or is it to be ‘fair’? The Scottish system is designed to bring pluralism into the voting system, by giving extra weight to underrepresented parties in the list system. That seems fairer to me than FPTP, so I prefer it.

The current argument over our voting system is mostly down to the false argument being made in the media that 66 SNP seats automatically = Indy ref 2 and 64 seats automatically means the opposite. Which is easy to understand, but doesn’t change the fact it’s stupid.

[Moulin Yarns]

Do you honestly think you're average voter wants to be using a calculator or Excel? They don't, they want to put an X in a box. I just think the system and formula used should be clearer so it's easier for voters to understand.

If a voter is involved enough they will be aware of the mechanics of the electoral system. If they are happy to just go and put a cross in a box on 2 papers against either the party or the person who they prefer then that's fine.

If someone wants to know how the system works before voting then they can easily find explanations how the list seats are calculated.


Going back to the SNP example, in 2016, in my region, SNP got 8 of 9 constituency seats, and over 120,000 list votes. This figure was divided by 9 ( number of seats +1) to give 13,334 votes to count on the list.

[JimBHibees]

Imagine a party won 47-49% in a UK election. Would anybody in their craziest moment say it was a poor result?

Yep it is likely to be an extraordinary result spun as if it is a failure.

[Moulin Yarns]

When do results start rolling in today?

BBC programme starts at 12, STV not until 20 to 5

[Ozyhibby]

I think the difference was that the snp were heavily pushing the “give us both votes line”, when the Tories and labour were saying “ give us the list votes to stop the snp”. I can understand why the snp pushed this, though I think it was wrong, as I understand the voting system. But it is correct that most people don’t understand the system and believe what the snp said. Likewise most Tory and labour supporters don’t understand the system but did what they were told. Their problem was that the unionist parties didn’t coordinate very well within the regions, so the effect was very limited. If the Tories and labour had got together and agreed to split the regions between them, then made sure their supporters knew when to vote for the other party, the election results would have a lot different,

I don’t think that the SNP is wrong to push for both votes. The other parties who are encouraging tactical voting will find out that it’s very difficult for them to break out of that cycle and ever make a push to actually win enough seats to form a govt.
Although it’s giving them short term, very small success, it is also making the SNP the long term party of govt.


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[Santa Cruz]

But is the main purpose of an electoral system to be easy to understand, or is it to be ‘fair’? The Scottish system is designed to bring pluralism into the voting system, by giving extra weight to underrepresented parties in the list system. That seems fairer to me than FPTP, so I prefer it.

The current argument over our voting system is mostly down to the false argument being made in the media that 66 SNP seats automatically = Indy ref 2 and 64 seats automatically means the opposite. Which is easy to understand, but doesn’t change the fact it’s stupid.

For me it has to be easier to understand to be fair. People have different levels of understanding, some will get the system, some won't. Some might put in a shift with a spreadsheet, I'd say that would be quite uncommon though :greengrin. I prefer the Scottish system too, but I get why it was rejected in a referendum as the preferred option for voting in GE's

[hibsbollah]

If a voter is involved enough they will be aware of the mechanics of the electoral system. If they are happy to just go and put a cross in a box on 2 papers against either the party or the person who they prefer then that's fine.

If someone wants to know how the system works before voting then they can easily find explanations how the list seats are calculated.


Going back to the SNP example, in 2016, in my region, SNP got 8 of 9 constituency seats, and over 120,000 list votes. This figure was divided by 9 ( number of seats +1) to give 13,334 votes to count on the list.

I suppose SCs point is that explaining to people why parties that received LESS votes than the SNP receive MORE seats in that region, isn’t easy and straightforward, (In the lothians in the same year, 118k SNP votes=zero list seats, 75k Tory votes=3 list seats. I think that’s a fair point to make. It looks counterintuitive to people, many of whom have only a passing interest in politics.

[ronaldo7]

Current SNP constituency votes, 824,094, for 48/73

Absolutely amazing. We could be looking at 1.1 million constituency votes by the end of the day.

[Santa Cruz]

I suppose SCs point is that explaining to people why parties that received LESS votes than the SNP receive MORE seats in that region, isn’t easy and straightforward, (In the lothians in the same year, 118k SNP votes=zero list seats, 75k Tory votes=3 list seats. I think that’s a fair point to make. It looks counterintuitive to people, many of whom have only a passing interest in politics.

Yes, better articulated than me (again :greengrin). Not everyone is passionate or feels the need to get involved in party politics, it's just an occurrence every 4 years for the bulk of the electorate, their vote is every bit as valid though.

[weecounty hibby]

Interesting listing to Tory MPs this morning. I heard 2 English Tory MPs this morning talking about the Scottish administration, not government, while saying they wouldn't allow a second referendum. How very colonial

[Moulin Yarns]

For me it has to be easier to understand to be fair. People have different levels of understanding, some will get the system, some won't. Some might put in a shift with a spreadsheet, I'd say that would be quite uncommon though :greengrin. I prefer the Scottish system too, but I get why it was rejected in a referendum as the preferred option for voting in GE's

The system of proportional representation that was rejected in the referendum in 2011 isn't the same as the system used in Scottish elections.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum


Voters would have scored the candidates in preferred order, votes counted with the lowest dropped and their second preference then redistributed, and so on until we get a winner.

You think our system is difficult for people to understand?

[lucky]

I suppose SCs point is that explaining to people why parties that received LESS votes than the SNP receive MORE seats in that region, isn’t easy and straightforward, (In the lothians in the same year, 118k SNP votes=zero list seats, 75k Tory votes=3 list seats. I think that’s a fair point to make. It looks counterintuitive to people, many of whom have only a passing interest in politics.

But only if you look at the regional list and constituency vote separately. The regional list vote was intended to be a top up of MSPs so that all voices are heard in our Parliament. It was not that long ago that the SNP got its majority of MSPs from the regional list. Back in 1999 Labour have 56 MSPs and only 3 came from the regional lists, SNP 7 Constituencies MSPs and 28 list MSPs yet Labour polled more votes in the regional list than any other party. Our system of FPTP and a PR top up gives all parties a voice in they achieve 6% in any region.

[Callum_62]

So it looks like I was right a few days ago by saying anything else than an overall SNP majority will be reported as failing and no appetite for independance

The UK really is a joke

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[Ozyhibby]

So it looks like I was right a few days ago by saying anything else than an overall SNP majority will be reported as failing and no appetite for independance

The UK really is a joke

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https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1390955685899292673?s=21

Even Scotsman journalists know that those arguments don’t hold up.


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[Moulin Yarns]

To help London-based media (& Tories in #Scotland), if we calc. #SP21 results using ONLY FPTP results (as per WM), then if @theSNP win 64/73 constituency seats, that would be equivalent to a UK Govt with 572/650 seats (88%).
@ScotParl list system DESIGNED to prevent that 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇪🇺🇺🇳🌍

[ronaldo7]

https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1390955685899292673?s=21

Even Scotsman journalists know that those arguments don’t hold up.


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It looks like he's given us 3 new mandates.

[Hibrandenburg]

So it looks like I was right a few days ago by saying anything else than an overall SNP majority will be reported as failing and no appetite for independance

The UK really is a joke

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The reporting is comedy gold, SNP getting around 47% of the popular vote and the talk is of a country being divided, ffw 3 minutes and a 40% Labour vote in Wales is a landslide.

[hibsbollah]

But only if you look at the regional list and constituency vote separately. The regional list vote was intended to be a top up of MSPs so that all voices are heard in our Parliament. It was not that long ago that the SNP got its majority of MSPs from the regional list. Back in 1999 Labour have 56 MSPs and only 3 came from the regional lists, SNP 7 Constituencies MSPs and 28 list MSPs yet Labour polled more votes in the regional list than any other party. Our system of FPTP and a PR top up gives all parties a voice in they achieve 6% in any region.

I think we all understand that on here. As I said, the problem comes when you try and take an electoral system which was designed to increase plurality, and try to use it to answer a question based on a false premise about a 65 seat mandate, which is what is happening.

[lapsedhibee]

The system of proportional representation that was rejected in the referendum in 2011 isn't the same as the system used in Scottish elections.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum


Voters would have scored the candidates in preferred order, votes counted with the lowest dropped and their second preference then redistributed, and so on until we get a winner.

You think our system is difficult for people to understand?

There's a bit more maths in the d'Hondt thingy, which probably does make it harder. Dividing stuff by (n+1) is not everyone's cup of tea.

[hibsbollah]

There's a bit more maths in the d'Hondt thingy, which probably does make it harder. Dividing stuff by (n+1) is not everyone's cup of tea.

I was trying to work out how Jefferson/D’Hondt would resolve this afternoons semi final (im sure expected goals would come into it somewhere) but Ive given it up as a bad job.

[Hibby Bairn]

Current SNP constituency votes, 824,094, for 48/73

Absolutely amazing. We could be looking at 1.1 million constituency votes by the end of the day.

Yes. But also bear in mind that Labour, Conservative and LD have received 896,000 constituency votes. Not as amazing as one single party but important nevertheless re voter positions.

[Moulin Yarns]

Aberdeenshire South

SNP 18307

Labour 2900

Tories 16418

Lib Dems 3396

turnout 64%