Sticky Buns Batter Czech Player in Tunnel

[hibsbollah]

The guys been caught red handed and is trying to wriggle out of it. You guys can dress it up any way you like.

What a nightmare you’re having here. You’ve got no evidence for that at all.

[hibbysam]

The point I'm trying to make is that for a white middle aged man trying to offer support and also inform their kids it is helpful if there's direction as to the best action to take.
2/3 weeks ago standing while others knelt was deemed offensive while now it's offered as a means of support. It is a difficult situation.
I'm saying that fully aware that living with racism is obviously the issue and worrying about kneeling or standing is a very minor point.
Again, hopefully the dialogue around this can bring about change

These players and teams doing this though are putting the message out prior to it, and again getting plenty talking even before the event takes place. With Scotland rugby there was huge confusion in the team itself, it was never planned to take place.

[Pretty Boy]

The guys been caught red handed and is trying to wriggle out of it. You guys can dress it up any way you like.

Surely being caught red handed would be grounds for promotion rather than dismissal at Rangers?

[JimBHibees]

Surely being caught red handed would be grounds for promotion rather than dismissal at Rangers?

:greengrin

[WhileTheChief..]

What a nightmare you’re having here. You’ve got no evidence for that at all.

No, I don’t.

But I’d imagine Rangers had something to go on otherwise I can’t see why they would sack an employee of 13 years?

Is it really that far a stretch for me to suggest that someone being caught stealing might tell a fib or two?

The racial abuse angle is a totally separate issue. If it did indeed happen and it was swept under the carpet then I’m sure that can be dealt with in whatever the appropriate manner is.

I’m talking about why he was sacked, nothing else.

[CropleyWasGod]

No, I don’t.

But I’d imagine Rangers had something to go on otherwise I can’t see why they would sack an employee of 13 years?

Is it really that far a stretch for me to suggest that someone being caught stealing might tell a fib or two?

The racial abuse angle is a totally separate issue. If it did indeed happen and it was swept under the carpet then I’m sure that can be dealt with in whatever the appropriate manner is.

I’m talking about why he was sacked, nothing else.

And that is to be discussed by the Employment Tribunal.

[hibbysam]

No, I don’t.

But I’d imagine Rangers had something to go on otherwise I can’t see why they would sack an employee of 13 years?

Is it really that far a stretch for me to suggest that someone being caught stealing might tell a fib or two?

The racial abuse angle is a totally separate issue. If it did indeed happen and it was swept under the carpet then I’m sure that can be dealt with in whatever the appropriate manner is.

I’m talking about why he was sacked, nothing else.

If he never stole and was in fact launched because of the accusations he was making and Rangers covered it up with this ‘stealing’ angle, then of course its all linked.

[DH1875]

Shocker of a video doing the rounds of a celtic fan making racist remarks about Morelos after he scored today. With folk like that in society, what chance have we got.

[WhileTheChief..]

If he never stole and was in fact launched because of the accusations he was making and Rangers covered it up with this ‘stealing’ angle, then of course its all linked.

Well, yeah, that kinda goes without saying :aok:

[Keith_M]

I realise there's a lot of back and forth with some arguments but it is really encouraging that we all agree that racism is unacceptable, which is what really matters.


:aok:

[DH1875]

Shocker of a video doing the rounds of a celtic fan making racist remarks about Morelos after he scored today. With folk like that in society, what chance have we got.

Has made the Sun newspaper and police apparently investigating. Having seen the video the boy deserves everything coming his was.

[Sylar]

Nauseating to see yet more racism poisoning our domestic game. The video and images complete with monkey emojis are absolutely pathetic, especially when Brown clearly showed his support for Kamara before the game. Clearly the idiot doesn’t realise there are players of colour in their own team!

[hibsbollah]

I realise there's a lot of back and forth with some arguments but it is really encouraging that we all agree that racism is unacceptable, which is what really matters.


:aok:

True, but the problem these days is virtually nobody admits they are racist when they are, because society’s norms dictate that it’s unacceptable. I know my kids just wouldn’t believe the everyday open racism that lots of people displayed when I was at school. In the 70s and 80s things were less covert, probably less pleasant for the targets of racism but essentially a more honest environment than we are living in today.

[basehibby]

He only claims racial abuse after he’s been sacked!!

You don’t find that just slightly convenient? I mean, c’mon, if this was Hibs, would you really be saying wait for the tribunal?

You’d all be rallying round the club saying exactly what I’m saying :na na:

He's been sacked after a disputed allegation of minor theft - after he has raised concerns informally of receiving racist abuse. I'd say there is more than a hint of the possibility of constructive dismissal there.

NB - it's NOT Hibs it's Rangers - so no need to act like a Hun by leaping unquestioningly to their defence.

Edit - Just looked it up and the above would not be Constructive Dismissal but possibly Unfair Dismissal - from the Gov.uk website "Situations when your dismissal is likely to be unfair include if you ... exposed wrongdoing in the workplace (whistleblowing)"

[Kaff]

Nauseating to see yet more racism poisoning our domestic game. The video and images complete with monkey emojis are absolutely pathetic, especially when Brown clearly showed his support for Kamara before the game. Clearly the idiot doesn’t realise there are players of colour in their own team!

Looks like his work has found out and have suspended him pending investigations.
John Clark Motors tweeted about it.

[superfurryhibby]

True, but the problem these days is virtually nobody admits they are racist when they are, because society’s norms dictate that it’s unacceptable. I know my kids just wouldn’t believe the everyday open racism that lots of people displayed when I was at school. In the 70s and 80s things were less covert, probably less pleasant for the targets of racism but essentially a more honest environment than we are living in today.

Society has moved on a lot from the 70's and 80's. Many attitudes have shifted and awareness/intolerance of racism is part of a much wider spectrum of change. I wouldn't describe those times as a more honest environment than now, I'd probably focus on them being more ignorant and considerably less enlightened. Norms have become just that because they reflect broad societal shifts.

[WhileTheChief..]

True, but the problem these days is virtually nobody admits they are racist when they are, because society’s norms dictate that it’s unacceptable. I know my kids just wouldn’t believe the everyday open racism that lots of people displayed when I was at school. In the 70s and 80s things were less covert, probably less pleasant for the targets of racism but essentially a more honest environment than we are living in today.

I tend to give folk the benefit of the doubt.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything racist posted on this forum, not because of the way the admins police it, but because most folk are generally decent.

I’m maybe picking you up wrong here, but are you saying you think there are posters on here, or on this thread, who are racist?

Not asking you to name names as it’s such as easy accusation to throw around but I’d be surprised if you thought so.

[Keith_M]

True, but the problem these days is virtually nobody admits they are racist when they are, because society’s norms dictate that it’s unacceptable. I know my kids just wouldn’t believe the everyday open racism that lots of people displayed when I was at school. In the 70s and 80s things were less covert, probably less pleasant for the targets of racism but essentially a more honest environment than we are living in today.


I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.


Are you saying that we're all claiming to be against racism... but we're actually lying?

:dunno:

[Andy74]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.


Are you saying that we're all claiming to be against racism... but we're actually lying?

:dunno:

This sort of thing has been implied without being outright said for some time on here.

There are a few who believe that they are more enlightened and educated on the subjects of racism, sexism and so on and any discussion which may seem to look more widely or critically at particular aspects of it are dismissed as being part of the problem or as being evidence that you are not as tolerant as them.

A case in point was a discussion on taking the knee. I’d suggested it might have been time that it wasn’t having any further impact and that it could be time that football did something else to show more action rather than tokenism. The suggestion back was that I was a middle aged white guy who was offended in some way by black people having the cheek to take up a few seconds of my time and that I had no right to have a view on it.

That sort of response is quite common place. These topics can be emotive but they are also complex. There isn’t much tolerance for anything that doesn’t fall within a particular view which is kind of odd because valuing diversity is really about having acceptance of a broader range of inputs and experiences.

[hibsbollah]

This sort of thing has been implied without being outright said for some time on here.

There are a few who believe that they are more enlightened and educated on the subjects of racism, sexism and so on and any discussion which may seem to look more widely or critically at particular aspects of it are dismissed as being part of the problem or as being evidence that you are not as tolerant as them.

A case in point was a discussion on taking the knee. I’d suggested it might have been time that it wasn’t having any further impact and that it could be time that football did something else to show more action rather than tokenism. The suggestion back was that I was a middle aged white guy who was offended in some way by black people having the cheek to take up a few seconds of my time and that I had no right to have a view on it.

That sort of response is quite common place. These topics can be emotive but they are also complex. There isn’t much tolerance for anything that doesn’t fall within a particular view which is kind of odd because valuing diversity is really about having acceptance of a broader range of inputs and experiences.

No, what you’re doing is deliberately misconstruing what was said on this thread and others. I’m obviously talking about racism being covert not overt in wider society, not on this board. And please don’t start trying to say what other posters ‘believe’, it’s just standard straw man by someone who can’t win an argument any other way.

You have a habit of saying ‘this kind of thing is happening more often on here’ and then failing to explain what you mean. It’s just meaningless. And to be clear, I have no problem ‘tolerating’ your opinions, despite your claim, I just disagree with you on almost everything, particularly on race, and will continue to say so.

[hibsbollah]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.


Are you saying that we're all claiming to be against racism... but we're actually lying?

:dunno:

No, I’m not.

I’m surprised you haven’t noticed that racists were more out and proud in the 70s and 80s than they are now.

[neil7908]

I tend to give folk the benefit of the doubt.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything racist posted on this forum, not because of the way the admins police it, but because most folk are generally decent.

I’m maybe picking you up wrong here, but are you saying you think there are posters on here, or on this thread, who are racist?

Not asking you to name names as it’s such as easy accusation to throw around but I’d be surprised if you thought so.

It's highly likely posters on here are racist. The headline from the link below is "One in four British people admit to being racially prejudiced". Given the number of people using Hibs.net it would be extraordinary if there was not a single person who held racist views.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-people-admit-racially-prejudiced-white-black-asian-muslims-brexit-more-leave-voters-remain-survey-a7973751.html%3famp

[WhileTheChief..]

Cool.

As I said, I take people as I find them and I’ve yet to come across anyone that I felt was remotely racist on here in 10+ years.

I’ll go by my own experiences instead of a set of stats.

[Keith_M]

No, what you’re doing is deliberately misconstruing what was said on this thread and others. I’m obviously talking about racism being covert not overt in wider society, not on this board. And please don’t start trying to say what other posters ‘believe’, it’s just standard straw man by someone who can’t win an argument any other way.

You have a habit of saying ‘this kind of thing is happening more often on here’ and then failing to explain what you mean. It’s just meaningless. And to be clear, I have no problem ‘tolerating’ your opinions, despite your claim, I just disagree with you on almost everything, particularly on race, and will continue to say so.



My question was genuine, not a dig or anything. I've no interest in any of the squabbling going on.

I only asked because there has actually been similar claims made before, so just wanted to clarify, and can see that's clearly not what you meant, so please accept my apologies


:aok:

[Sir David Gray]

Police Scotland confirm they're investigating reports of an alleged assault.

https://news.stv.tv/sport/football/police-probe-assault-during-rangers-clash-with-slavia-prague

[hibsbollah]

My question was genuine, not a dig or anything. I've no interest in any of the squabbling going on.

I only asked because there has actually been similar claims made before, so just wanted to clarify, and can see that's clearly not what you meant, so please accept my apologies


:aok:

Not at all, I enjoy a good exchange of views with you :agree:

My wife’s uncle for example, is a racist. Often seen on EDL marches in the midlands, ex casual, frequent links to Tommy sites on Facebook, He just Is. But he is adamant that he isn’t. (He just wants Britain to be the Britain it used to be, wants it to be Christian, thinks Islam is all about world domination *insert the cliche). Back in the day I could have conversations (well, arguments) with lads like him who actually OWNED their beliefs.

That’s the problem with the word as a label, of course. It’s lost it’s meaning.

[Billy Whizz]

Police Scotland confirm they're investigating reports of an alleged assault.

https://news.stv.tv/sport/football/police-probe-assault-during-rangers-clash-with-slavia-prague

Who dunnit

[makaveli1875]

Not at all, I enjoy a good exchange of views with you :agree:

My wife’s uncle for example, is a racist. Often seen on EDL marches in the midlands, ex casual, frequent links to Tommy sites on Facebook, He just Is. But he is adamant that he isn’t. (He just wants Britain to be the Britain it used to be, wants it to be Christian, thinks Islam is all about world domination *insert the cliche). Back in the day I could have conversations (well, arguments) with lads like him who actually OWNED their beliefs.

That’s the problem with the word as a label, of course. It’s lost it’s meaning.

going off in tangents here but since you bring it up I think islam is the pits as is Christianity , and they're both about world domination . It's written into their respective histories for all to see , it's not exactly a secret

[gbhibby]

Shocker of a video doing the rounds of a celtic fan making racist remarks about Morelos after he scored today. With folk like that in society, what chance have we got.
Not surprised if you look on both Rangers and Celtic forums the stuff that is posted on there forums is disgusting. I am afraid that this guy is one of many on both sides of the old firm.

[hibsbollah]

going off in tangents here but since you bring it up I think islam is the pits as is Christianity , and they're both about world domination . It's written into their respective histories for all to see , it's not exactly a secret

Definitely in holyground territory now :faf:

[truehibernian]

Not at all, I enjoy a good exchange of views with you :agree:

My wife’s uncle for example, is a racist. Often seen on EDL marches in the midlands, ex casual, frequent links to Tommy sites on Facebook, He just Is. But he is adamant that he isn’t. (He just wants Britain to be the Britain it used to be, wants it to be Christian, thinks Islam is all about world domination *insert the cliche). Back in the day I could have conversations (well, arguments) with lads like him who actually OWNED their beliefs.

That’s the problem with the word as a label, of course. It’s lost it’s meaning.

I hate this argument bollah (of your relative), it's harking back to Jim Davidson, Mind Your Language, and Alf Garnett :rolleyes:

I still think ones own beliefs are borne from upbringing and in the home (from parents), but also that in Scotland, albeit smaller in population, we have better education in diversity and inclusion. We also have better integration in our inner cities and there are no cities in Scotland you could walk round and say 'that's the Asian district', or 'that's Chinatown' or 'this is the Jewish area'. Cities down south created division by creating areas which were habited by one distinct group. I think that was/is part of the problem.

The media have also been grossly irresponsible with the terminology they use...........take for example migrants, and the apparent 'swarm of immigrants'. when they published scare stories about Britain being 'overrun' with immigrants during Brexit and the war against terrorism (rhetoric which certain politicians gleefully stoked up in their media interviews)............a storyline that only changed when a young infant was found washed up dead on a beach trying to leave a war ravaged country to seek a better life here.

Starts in the home, schools need to do more, police and authorities need to be more punitive, but the media have a huge responsibility too. Look at the Meghan Markle interview and the unbelievably quick defence of the Royals (in the media) and the fact that the media quickly starting publishing and churning out 'pushy Princess' stories (about Markle) rather than tackling the main story and issue, that there was a Royal (or Royals) who were racist or held views which could be deemed racist.

Even as we type, that particular story has been brushed away and become today's chip wrappers.

Equality in opportunities is important too. In football - and sport - how many BME managers are there in Europe ? I'm all for equality in outcomes (best person for the job regardless of race/religion/gender), but you cannot convince me that there aren't BME coaches out there that cannot be great managers but have been denied the opportunity by owners or failed to get the job after interview - is the reason race ?

[half.time.draw.]

Racism has no place in society.
Still amazed 50k people are allowed to sing’up to my knees in Fenian blood. As well.

[CockneyRebel]

I hate this argument bollah (of your relative), it's harking back to Jim Davidson, Mind Your Language, and Alf Garnett :rolleyes:

I still think ones own beliefs are borne from upbringing and in the home (from parents), but also that in Scotland, albeit smaller in population, we have better education in diversity and inclusion. We also have better integration in our inner cities and there are no cities in Scotland you could walk round and say 'that's the Asian district', or 'that's Chinatown' or 'this is the Jewish area'. Cities down south created division by creating areas which were habited by one distinct group. I think that was/is part of the problem.

The media have also been grossly irresponsible with the terminology they use...........take for example migrants, and the apparent 'swarm of immigrants'. when they published scare stories about Britain being 'overrun' with immigrants during Brexit and the war against terrorism (rhetoric which certain politicians gleefully stoked up in their media interviews)............a storyline that only changed when a young infant was found washed up dead on a beach trying to leave a war ravaged country to seek a better life here.

Starts in the home, schools need to do more, police and authorities need to be more punitive, but the media have a huge responsibility too. Look at the Meghan Markle interview and the unbelievably quick defence of the Royals (in the media) and the fact that the media quickly starting publishing and churning out 'pushy Princess' stories (about Markle) rather than tackling the main story and issue, that there was a Royal (or Royals) who were racist or held views which could be deemed racist.

Even as we type, that particular story has been brushed away and become today's chip wrappers.

Equality in opportunities is important too. In football - and sport - how many BME managers are there in Europe ? I'm all for equality in outcomes (best person for the job regardless of race/religion/gender), but you cannot convince me that there aren't BME coaches out there that cannot be great managers but have been denied the opportunity by owners or failed to get the job after interview - is the reason race ?



In England there are many areas in many cities identified by the ethnicity of the people living there but the people were not rounded up and put on reservations. The cities did not create theses enclaves and it is untrue to say so. They were created by the people themselves moving into areas together. I don't blame them for that as it would seem natural to want to live amongst folk with the same culture as yourself but it doesn't help integration and does help promote a "them and us" scenario. Also, some ethnic groups have no desire to live in a "mixed" community as they fear that this would/could dilute (westernise) their way of life. There is no easy fix but to make any progress there has to be a meeting of minds which, presently, seems unlikely.

[WhileTheChief..]

- is the reason race ?

Russell Latapy said that’s why he never got a managers job in Scotland.

If we take him at his word, then the Hibs board and other boards around the county were racists in the past.

I don’t believe him though. I think better, more experienced, more qualified people got the jobs instead.

Also, would it not be a bit of a stretch for 100s of clubs boards across Europe to all be racist? You need to include Hibs in this obviously yeah?

You’re just saying there’s no ethnic minorities, therefore racist. That just doesn’t hold up.

[FilipinoHibs]

Russell Latapy said that’s why he never got a managers job in Scotland.

If we take him at his word, then the Hibs board and other boards around the county were racists in the past.

I don’t believe him though. I think better, more experienced, more qualified people got the jobs instead.

Also, would it not be a bit of a stretch for 100s of clubs boards across Europe to all be racist? You need to include Hibs in this obviously yeah?

You’re just saying there’s no ethnic minorities, therefore racist. That just doesn’t hold up.

In the main the contributions on here are more measured apart from when there is a petty dispute between posters. Go on to Facebook or Twitter where there seem to be little controls and you find more unhinged behavior some of it racist.

[truehibernian]

In England there are many areas in many cities identified by the ethnicity of the people living there but the people were not rounded up and put on reservations. The cities did not create theses enclaves and it is untrue to say so. They were created by the people themselves moving into areas together. I don't blame them for that as it would seem natural to want to live amongst folk with the same culture as yourself but it doesn't help integration and does help promote a "them and us" scenario. Also, some ethnic groups have no desire to live in a "mixed" community as they fear that this would/could dilute (westernise) their way of life. There is no easy fix but to make any progress there has to be a meeting of minds which, presently, seems unlikely.

I suppose I based my post on what I've seen down south when I've been down there CR, but totally take your point that people do want to live where they feel safe and belong.

I remember working with an organisation in Glasgow who did street football and they said the biggest source of division/racism was when the local authority placed asylum seekers in one block in Sighthill - it drew a horrible reaction from locals (they get the best flats, best furniture, etc) and caused incredible division. They actually coached wee Feruz. Things changed and improved when there was more integration - admittedly, it won't change ingrained beliefs, but I think not having 'set areas' improves society as a whole.

I agree though, there is no easy fix, other than increased education and harsh penalties for those that are racist, homophobic, etc.

[truehibernian]

Russell Latapy said that’s why he never got a managers job in Scotland.

If we take him at his word, then the Hibs board and other boards around the county were racists in the past.

I don’t believe him though. I think better, more experienced, more qualified people got the jobs instead.

Also, would it not be a bit of a stretch for 100s of clubs boards across Europe to all be racist? You need to include Hibs in this obviously yeah?

You’re just saying there’s no ethnic minorities, therefore racist. That just doesn’t hold up.

That's my point, equality in opportunity versus equality in outcome.

Tell you what though, I would love Russell Latapy coaching not only young players at Hibs, but our current midfield. That's based on him as a player and coach, not the colour of his skin.

Wouldn't let him drive me anywhere mind :greengrin

There will undoubtedly be top black and BME coaches not getting opportunities - you have to question why.

[basehibby]

It's highly likely posters on here are racist. The headline from the link below is "One in four British people admit to being racially prejudiced". Given the number of people using Hibs.net it would be extraordinary if there was not a single person who held racist views.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-people-admit-racially-prejudiced-white-black-asian-muslims-brexit-more-leave-voters-remain-survey-a7973751.html%3famp

Interesting survey but as ever, stats can be completely misinterpreted and/or misrepresented - and they blatantly are in parts of this article.

eg. Negative attitudes towards Islam are conflated with racism in the article when they are plainly two separate issues. Given the volume of negative propaganda that has been deliberately spread in the 21st Century by the MSM in support of regime change wars in the middle east, added to the terrorist incidents and refugee crises which have arisen - often directly connected to these same wars, it is hardly surprising if there has been a spike in negative attitudes towards Islam and muslims. This is in addition to some perfectly valid concerns arising from the clash of cultures between Christian-Western and Muslim-Eastern societal values (eg. arranged marriages, honour killings, attitudes towards LGBT etc).

Also - asking people how racially prejudiced they consider themselves to be: many or even most people who consider themselves to be "slightly racially prejudiced" are more than likely not proud of it. More likely they possess enough self awareness to realise that some of the innate reflexes and attitudes imbued upon them by the environments in which they've grown up could be to some extent racially prejudiced. But surely being aware of this is a good thing rather than a bad thing is it not? Not according to the alarmist tone of the article.

In this sense I would say that someone who admits in a survey to being "slightly racially prejudiced" is unlikely to actually "hold racist views" - such as one race being intellectually superior to another for example - but is actually aware enough of historical, institutional and systemic racism to not consider themselves immune from it's influence. Such a person would therefore just as likely be anti-racist as racist.

Lies, damned lies and statistics as the saying goes. You're probably right that SOME individuals that post on here will hold racist views - but the 25% figure blared out in the article is way way over the top for the reasons outlined above - and I think that's bourne out by the tone of the vast majority of comment on Hibs.net

[superfurryhibby]

Shouldn’t the thread title read “Sticky Buns Bounce Czech in Tunnel”?

[WhileTheChief..]

That's my point, equality in opportunity versus equality in outcome.

Tell you what though, I would love Russell Latapy coaching not only young players at Hibs, but our current midfield. That's based on him as a player and coach, not the colour of his skin.

Wouldn't let him drive me anywhere mind :greengrin

There will undoubtedly be top black and BME coaches not getting opportunities - you have to question why.

Questioning why is fine. I’d suggest there could be a whole plethora of reasons with race being way down the list.

Take Scotland for example. The overwhelming majority of Scottish born players are white, for whatever reason, (I don’t think that’s anything to do with race either by the way!)

Managers tend to have been players at some level beforehand so straight away you’ve narrowed the recruitment pool down for ethnic minorities by a huge margin.

How many BME people have even been linked with jobs in Scotland? Maybe very few apply?

Seems a strange angle you’re taking with this.

[truehibernian]

Questioning why is fine. I’d suggest there could be a whole plethora of reasons with race being way down the list.

Take Scotland for example. The overwhelming majority of Scottish born players are white, for whatever reason, (I don’t think that’s anything to do with race either by the way!)

Managers tend to have been players at some level beforehand so straight away you’ve narrowed the recruitment pool down for ethnic minorities by a huge margin.

How many BME people have even been linked with jobs in Scotland? Maybe very few apply?

Seems a strange angle you’re taking with this.

There's no angle, I just look at the wonderful players over decades who have been black or mixed race and wonder why only a few have been given managerial jobs. Admittedly, great players don't always make good managers, but for me, in my opinion, it's disproportionate.

Mind, I'm from an era that thought Vic Kasule was the best striker I'd ever seen when I was a boy (at Meadowbank Thistle).

[Wee Effen Bee]

I hate this argument bollah (of your relative), it's harking back to Jim Davidson, Mind Your Language, and Alf Garnett :rolleyes:

I still think ones own beliefs are borne from upbringing and in the home (from parents), but also that in Scotland, albeit smaller in population, we have better education in diversity and inclusion. We also have better integration in our inner cities and there are no cities in Scotland you could walk round and say 'that's the Asian district', or 'that's Chinatown' or 'this is the Jewish area'. Cities down south created division by creating areas which were habited by one distinct group. I think that was/is part of the problem.

The media have also been grossly irresponsible with the terminology they use...........take for example migrants, and the apparent 'swarm of immigrants'. when they published scare stories about Britain being 'overrun' with immigrants during Brexit and the war against terrorism (rhetoric which certain politicians gleefully stoked up in their media interviews)............a storyline that only changed when a young infant was found washed up dead on a beach trying to leave a war ravaged country to seek a better life here.

Starts in the home, schools need to do more, police and authorities need to be more punitive, but the media have a huge responsibility too. Look at the Meghan Markle interview and the unbelievably quick defence of the Royals (in the media) and the fact that the media quickly starting publishing and churning out 'pushy Princess' stories (about Markle) rather than tackling the main story and issue, that there was a Royal (or Royals) who were racist or held views which could be deemed racist.

Even as we type, that particular story has been brushed away and become today's chip wrappers.

Equality in opportunities is important too. In football - and sport - how many BME managers are there in Europe ? I'm all for equality in outcomes (best person for the job regardless of race/religion/gender), but you cannot convince me that there aren't BME coaches out there that cannot be great managers but have been denied the opportunity by owners or failed to get the job after interview - is the reason race ?

Agree with a lot of what you say but, FFS - this pish about schools gets right on my tits! Another lazy, throwaway cliche! Last week on the news: women are attacked - schools have to educate boys better! This week, People are racist - schools have to do more! Can someone enlighten us on what more schools should be doing? Teaching ‘equality and equity’ is taught as part of the CfE - and has been for years - one of the most progressive curricula in the world. I’m keen to hear EXACTLY what those, who continually tell everyone our schools aren’t doing enough, believe we should add to the curriculum to change society. Every single school has dozens of policies they must adhere when developing their curriculum. These include Equality, Equity Relationships,etc. Philosophy resources for nursery and upwards abound, as do critical thinking resources and Ethics guidelines/policies. That’s just in primary schools! But hey, schools aren’t doing enough!

[007]

After a lot of scraping about on the internet I finally found this clip which sheds some light on the actual alleged racist incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5MhQVCRgNo

IF I'm not mistaken you can actually hear the offending remark under the commentary - and it totally backs Kamara up. You can also see that Kamara's teammate hears it and is also incensed and reports it in real time to the referee. If I'm right about what I think I hear then an audio tech should be able to isolate it and the culprit can then be hung drawn and quartered (figuratively speaking of course) by UEFA.

I can't make out what he said but I believe Kamara and Zungu's account. As you say, it should be possible to isolate it and make it clearer.

Plus, the guy is claiming to have been punched in the tunnel by Kamara in front of (amongst others) UEFA officials so this should an easy case for UEFA to investigate. They can ask the officials what happened in the tunnel and if they say they're was no punch then the guy is clearly lying to make himself appear to be the victim. They've got the audio clip (which might not be 100% conclusive), Zungu backing up Kamara (which could be argued he's not impartial because he's a teammate but he can be clearly heard in the audio repeating what he heard) and there's the Prague goalkeeper confirming he said it. Surely there's enough there for UEFA to throw the book at him.

[truehibernian]

Agree with a lot of what you say but, FFS - this pish about schools gets right on my tits! Another lazy, throwaway cliche! Last week on the news: women are attacked - schools have to educate boys better! This week, People are racist - schools have to do more! Can someone enlighten us on what more schools should be doing? Teaching ‘equality and equity’ is taught as part of the CfE - and has been for years - one of the most progressive curricula in the world. I’m keen to hear EXACTLY what those, who continually tell everyone our schools aren’t doing enough, believe we should add to the curriculum to change society. Every single school has dozens of policies they must adhere when developing their curriculum. These include Equality, Equity Relationships,etc. Philosophy resources for nursery and upwards abound, as do critical thinking resources and Ethics guidelines/policies. That’s just in primary schools! But hey, schools aren’t doing enough!

I worked in schools WEB (for 6 years), and no, they are not doing enough - you say they are taught it in CfE - not really, they have a period or two a week (usually in RME) and race is a small part of that lesson plan. Many (guidance) teachers don't (and certainly didn't when I worked in that environment) even know how to report or record a racial incident properly - trust me. Many didn't even know there was a recognised process for recording incidents (under the local authority process). Which caused the local authority Principle Officer in Equalities to re-write and promote the overall bullying policy.

I've sat on meetings and debates with the BME community and local authority education leaders. I also invited all secondary schools to visit their local Mosque to see if better understanding of (that particular) faith could be better understood, and to see if local 'differences' could be overcome - I got one (verbal) reply, from a headteacher who said they were worried that some of their pupils would act up and cause reputational damage to their school if they did so!!

Schools could and can do more - as others can too.

That was only a few years ago.

[Hibee Mac]

Agree with a lot of what you say but, FFS - this pish about schools gets right on my tits! Another lazy, throwaway cliche! Last week on the news: women are attacked - schools have to educate boys better! This week, People are racist - schools have to do more! Can someone enlighten us on what more schools should be doing? Teaching ‘equality and equity’ is taught as part of the CfE - and has been for years - one of the most progressive curricula in the world. I’m keen to hear EXACTLY what those, who continually tell everyone our schools aren’t doing enough, believe we should add to the curriculum to change society. Every single school has dozens of policies they must adhere when developing their curriculum. These include Equality, Equity Relationships,etc. Philosophy resources for nursery and upwards abound, as do critical thinking resources and Ethics guidelines/policies. That’s just in primary schools! But hey, schools aren’t doing enough!In general I have to agree with you on that one mate.

No doubt there is the odd school here and there that could perhaps do more but, as always, the root cause of these types of issues in younger people growing up comes from the parents and their views and ethics.

If the parents are spouting racist ***** at home there is sweet f all teachers and schools can do about it.

[Keith_M]

...

Take Scotland for example. The overwhelming majority of Scottish born players are white, for whatever reason, (I don’t think that’s anything to do with race either by the way!)
....


That's an easy one to explain, as you could replace that part of the sentence with

'The overwhelming majority of Scottish people are white' ... (roughly 97%).


The largest ethnic minority in Scotland is people of South Asian origin (e.g. Indian and Pakistani), and that's a group that, for whatever reason, is proportionately over represented in Cricket and under represented in Football.

However, if we expand it to more than just those that were born in Scotland, it doesn't explain why there are so few Black Coaches in Scottish Football, compared to the relatively high number of Black Players.

Thought there may well be a reason for this other than every single club owner in Scotland being racist. If it was that simple, and they really were all racist, then surely all the players would be white as well.

[beensaidbefore]

In England there are many areas in many cities identified by the ethnicity of the people living there but the people were not rounded up and put on reservations. The cities did not create theses enclaves and it is untrue to say so. They were created by the people themselves moving into areas together. I don't blame them for that as it would seem natural to want to live amongst folk with the same culture as yourself but it doesn't help integration and does help promote a "them and us" scenario. Also, some ethnic groups have no desire to live in a "mixed" community as they fear that this would/could dilute (westernise) their way of life. There is no easy fix but to make any progress there has to be a meeting of minds which, presently, seems unlikely.


Can you imagine the reaction if a person who isn't from an ethnic background suggested that they didn't want their way of life diluted by new ideas being brought into the country, they would be called narrow minded and ultimately a racist.

Seems like they are one and the same, really.

[CropleyWasGod]

Can you imagine the reaction if a person who isn't from an ethnic background suggested that they didn't want their way of life diluted by new ideas being brought into the country, they would be called narrow minded and ultimately a racist.

Seems like they are one and the same, really.

Who isn't from an ethnic background? :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Can you imagine the reaction if a person who isn't from an ethnic background suggested that they didn't want their way of life diluted by new ideas being brought into the country, they would be called narrow minded and ultimately a racist.

Seems like they are one and the same, really.

I’m not sure what argument you’re trying to make. Ethic minorities tend to settle within ‘host’ populations in geographic groups. So....?

[Keith_M]

Who isn't from an ethnic background? :greengrin


Aliens?


:dunno:

[Eyrie]

If you go back far enough, we all came from Africa anyway.

[beensaidbefore]

I’m not sure what argument you’re trying to make. Ethic minorities tend to settle within ‘host’ populations in geographic groups. So....?

The point I was trying to make, not very well admittedly, is that the 'fear' of losing one's identity is acknowledged in a sympathetic manner when speaking about minority communities, not so when it's 'Dave from Bradford' who is commonly portrayed as narrow minded and racist. Both communities may have genuine fears and experience of their 'culture' being eroded.

[WeeRussell]

The point I was trying to make, not very well admittedly, is that the 'fear' of losing one's identity is acknowledged in a sympathetic manner when speaking about minority communities, not so when it's 'Dave from Bradford' who is commonly portrayed as narrow minded and racist. Both communities may have genuine fears and experience of their 'culture' being eroded.

If Dave from Bradford is happy for people of all races to live next to him and live their lives as they please then I’d have no issues. I would question why he is genuinely concerned about his culture being eroded if his only issue is the amount of people with a different colour of skin to him living in Bradford though.

[beensaidbefore]

If Dave from Bradford is happy for people of all races to live next to him and live their lives as they please then I’d have no issues. I would question why he is genuinely concerned about his culture being eroded if his only issue is the amount of people with a different colour of skin to him living in Bradford though.

Perhaps his concerns would be similar to the concerns of other people mentioned in the post I initially replied too. Maybe a concern about unfamiliarity and a sense of not having concerns heard? It's not something I have experience of, but strikes me as unhelpful to dismiss Daves and/or anyone else's opinion and expect them to value other people's. That sentiment goes beyond race or colour.

[hibsbollah]

The point I was trying to make, not very well admittedly, is that the 'fear' of losing one's identity is acknowledged in a sympathetic manner when speaking about minority communities, not so when it's 'Dave from Bradford' who is commonly portrayed as narrow minded and racist. Both communities may have genuine fears and experience of their 'culture' being eroded.

It’s not ‘acknowledged in a sympathetic manner’ by everyone, far from it. It depends on your POV and what side of the culture war you’re arguing from. The opposite is just as likely to be the case.

[beensaidbefore]

It’s not ‘acknowledged in a sympathetic manner’ by everyone, far from it. It depends on your POV and what side of the culture war you’re arguing from. The opposite is just as likely to be the case.

Fair point, but I'd suggest putting folk into 'sides' is half he problem. Whilst being at polar opposites, there is fear and mistrust on both sides of the debate. Arguing that one opinion carries more weight than the other merely entrenches views, I would think.

[superfurryhibby]

Fair point, but I'd suggest putting folk into 'sides' is half he problem. Whilst being at polar opposites, there is fear and mistrust on both sides of the debate. Arguing that one opinion carries more weight than the other merely entrenches views, I would think.

Well put.

[greenginger]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56477199

Rather unfortunate choice of words there by Steven Gerard,

He say that after scoring his goal , Morelos is delighted to get the monkey off his back !:tsk tsk: