Sticky Buns Batter Czech Player in Tunnel

[FilipinoHibs]

The whole thing smells of Sevco trying to divert attention away from a catastrophic result.

Remember what happened when they lost the Scottish Cup Final in 2016? A fairly good natured pitch invasion was elevated to a viscous assault on their players.

Agree. Totally against racism but Gerrard has been silent when the racists/sectarians are on his side. Bit of a cover up for a very undisciplined display. Roofe's kick in the face of the goalkeeper was brutal gather the skull was fractured. Rather than beat up the opposition, the players should have walked off the pitch as other teams have done in a similar situation.

[The Baldmans Comb]

Nothing that club do ever surprise me. They really are a disgusting and despicable institution from the very top to the very bottom and every shade in between.

They truly are "Scotland's Shame".

[FilipinoHibs]

Good summary of an eye witness account:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/19172447.revealed-happened-inside-ibrox-rangers-game-slavia-prague-ended-acrimony-alleged-abuse/?ref=appshr

[Callum_62]

Good summary of an eye witness account:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/19172447.revealed-happened-inside-ibrox-rangers-game-slavia-prague-ended-acrimony-alleged-abuse/?ref=appshrWhat's the gist? Paid. Members only

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[Sir David Gray]

There are laws that will punish people who make racist statements. There are also laws that punish people who physically assault people. I am not aware of the defence that states it is legally acceptable to physically assault another person who makes racist remarks.

I'm unsure if you're agreeing with me or not. :greengrin

[AugustaHibs]

***Foul language warning***

https://twitter.com/steviejukes/status/1373033344603144196?s=21

Absolutely disgusting.

[.Sean.]

Absolutely nobody will ignore the abhorrent racism Glen Kamara unwarrantly received and the Prague boy will rightly be hammered for it, I am however of the opinion that all episodes of racism and discrimination are equally as vile as the next one, so surely that’ll be the straw that breaks the camels back and bring an end to the bigotry and sectarianism they’ve pandered to and at times actively encouraged over the years?

Or does that no suit poor wee Rangers agenda

Absolutely nothing against Glen Kamara but as a club and an institution any goodwill they’d have received from me for this went out the window when they lied and witchunted us in 2016.

[Andy74]

***Foul language warning***

https://twitter.com/steviejukes/status/1373033344603144196?s=21

Absolutely disgusting.

Of course it is but you can’t take the comments on this from Rangers fans seriously.

The player doesn’t deserve that but the fans have no awareness of their own nature.

[Onion]

Gerrard and the club needs to have a word with themselves if they allowed that to happen. Pub team mentality

Who's in the least surprised by this ? A football club that praised their fans for invading the pitch and "protecting their players" in May 2016 when they lost a cup final. The only difference is they are having to explain their natural instincts to the wider world rather than the Scottish media.

For a club that thinks it is a global brand, the better they become the more they are shown up for what they are. :greengrin

The Rangers = always the victims.

[Onion]

Nothing that club do ever surprise me. They really are a disgusting and despicable institution from the very top to the very bottom and every shade in between.

They truly are "Scotland's Shame".

It's no coincidence that the vast majority of problems within football invariably involves ...... The Rangers Football club. Their lack of self-awareness is astounding.

On the up side, they are providing an invaluable insight for current historians and scholars into social attitudes and behaviours prevalent in the 1960/70s Scotland.

[Andy74]

It's no coincidence that the vast majority of problems within football invariably involves ...... The Rangers Football club. Their lack of self-awareness is astounding.

On the up side, they are providing an invaluable insight for current historians and scholars into social attitudes and behaviours prevalent in the 1960/70s Scotland.

Under Kamara’s tweet many of the comments are on the lines of - We stand against racism, We are the People. Yep, inclusion in action.

[MWHIBBIES]

Kamara says in his statement that he is against all forms of bigotry in football. I look forward to his statement on Sunday when their fans are belting out Billy boys outside parkhead.

Racism is deplorable and he should never have had to suffer it, especially while doing his job. Same as Lennon and many others should never have had to suffer sectarian abuse while doing theirs.

[lord bunberry]

Absolutely nobody will ignore the abhorrent racism Glen Kamara unwarrantly received and the Prague boy will rightly be hammered for it, I am however of the opinion that all episodes of racism and discrimination are equally as vile as the next one, so surely that’ll be the straw that breaks the camels back and bring an end to the bigotry and sectarianism they’ve pandered to and at times actively encouraged over the years?

Or does that no suit poor wee Rangers agenda

Absolutely nothing against Glen Kamara but as a club and an institution any goodwill they’d have received from me for this went out the window when they lied and witchunted us in 2016.
I’m not sure he will be hammered for it. History shows that these type of situations tend to be hard to prove and even when they are it results in a slap on the wrists. A kicking in the tunnel might be the only punishment he gets.

[truehibernian]

Kamara says in his statement that he is against all forms of bigotry in football. I look forward to his statement on Sunday when their fans are belting out Billy boys outside parkhead.

Racism is deplorable and he should never have had to suffer it, especially while doing his job. Same as Lennon and many others should never have had to suffer sectarian abuse while doing theirs.

He via his solicitor also mention social media - which I wholeheartedly agree with I have to say.

I look forward (however) to sites like Rangers Media coming under the same scrutiny and being closed down :aok: they perpetuate bigotry and it goes totally unpunished.

I'll reiterate that yesterday's incident was deplorable - but they have opened up the wider debate with that statement alone :agree:

[Suburban Hibby]

Is it just me who cant be bothered with this hypocrisy anymore, They play the victim when they want, but have deafness when it's their lot each and every week of the season?

Both scenarios are wrong, but i cant get annoyed about it with them until they stand up and start battering their own fans and club officials (bigot kit man).

I’m with you - they hate everyone, everywhere, forever- and then are victims.

[Suburban Hibby]

Some of the comments on here about Rangers and their fans are just as sectarian as the songs they sing. But let’s be very straight here a footballer has been racially abused by an opponent. That is not acceptable. The way Rangers players react and the video and sound on the incident clearly shows what happened. If this was a Hibs player that suffered this everyone would be United in condemning it. There is no place for racism in society that’s why players are taking the knee each week to highlight the issue. Society will only be equal when you look at a black man and only the the man not colour of his skin.

Maybe he said - get it up you, your club died in 2012, stick your 55 up your Petrofac!’ Nothing racist at all.

[truehibernian]

I’m with you - they hate everyone, everywhere, forever- and then are victims.

2 weeks ago...............

https://twitter.com/no1_nicola/status/1368221400008429571

Michael Stewart was again bang on tonight about education and getting to the root of all forms of bigotry - it begins in the home for me, then schools, and we need those in powerful positions to really step up and punish, remove, and eradicate those who continue to shame the country with this (and similar) filth.

I heard John Kennedy come out with utter drivel today about the guard of honour and 'they didn't do it for us'............that's one of the childish yet entrenched issues that mean we will never see any change.............they don't understand the meaning of the word 'respect'. Neither do they understand the concept of humility. When you have a club being so utterly churlish that they won't concede with good grace, the game is a bogey.

[CentreLine]

***Foul language warning***

https://twitter.com/steviejukes/status/1373033344603144196?s=21

Absolutely disgusting.

That’s outrageous. What has happened in this world that people find that acceptable?

[truehibernian]

That’s outrageous. What has happened in this world that people find that acceptable?

In a two words CL, social media - keyboard 'warriors' that go unpunished and hide behind handed down family ideals knowing that these platforms allow it behind a bizarre definition of 'freedom of speech'

A very very very sad world we still live in mate.

[CentreLine]

In a two words CL, social media - keyboard 'warriors' that go unpunished and hide behind handed down family ideals knowing that these platforms allow it behind a bizarre definition of 'freedom of speech'

A very very very sad world we still live in mate.

You just have to shake your head don’t ya 😔

[JeMeSouviens]

Kamara says in his statement that he is against all forms of bigotry in football. I look forward to his statement on Sunday when their fans are belting out Billy boys outside parkhead.

Racism is deplorable and he should never have had to suffer it, especially while doing his job. Same as Lennon and many others should never have had to suffer sectarian abuse while doing theirs.

I think Kamara is telling the truth and if it’s at all possible to stand it up I hope the Slavia player gets hammered but the stench of hypocrisy from Sevconians and their orange shirted club is truly sickening.

If the likes of Kamara stood up for the taigs, tarriers and fenian *******s the way he’s standing up for himself, Scottish football would be in a much better place.

[truehibernian]

You just have to shake your head don’t ya 😔

Totally buddy.

Like I posted, it comes down to family values for me, and I was lucky I had parents who didn't differentiate between colour, religion, or anything - my father's best friend was an Iraqi professor who was sadly killed when he returned to his country under their regime. A quite wonderful, humble, and educated man.

My best friends at school (in Edinburgh) included Asians and Chinese guys who I still class as friends today and always will - not because of their race, purely because they were top lads and we shared the same interests, and it never came into any conversation that we were 'different'.

I was lucky - as many are - that we had families that didn't discriminate. For me, it starts there - in the home.

[HoboHarry]

I think Kamara is telling the truth and if it’s at all possible to stand it up I hope the Slavia player gets hammered but the stench of hypocrisy from Sevconians and their orange shirted club is truly sickening.

If the likes of Kamara stood up for the taigs, tarriers and fenian *******s the way he’s standing up for himself, Scottish football would be in a much better place.
:agree: Exactement.....

[truehibernian]

I think Kamara is telling the truth and if it’s at all possible to stand it up I hope the Slavia player gets hammered but the stench of hypocrisy from Sevconians and their orange shirted club is truly sickening.

If the likes of Kamara stood up for the taigs, tarriers and fenian *******s the way he’s standing up for himself, Scottish football would be in a much better place.

Here's a thought..........can you imagine, in solidarity, both clubs playing next season in the opposition's colours :cb

Can you imagine that - what a statement it would make for football and society, albeit temporary, albeit contrary.

How many fans would buy the shirts and merchandise you reckon :cb:faf: now that would be a good social experiment.

[ekhibee]

There's 2 seperate issues here, the racist remark against Kamara, and the hypocrisy of the team from Ibrox with their sectarian views, whatever they should legally be called. Both of these issues are evil and shouldn't be tolerated at any level, but this thread is about a racist remark made against Kamara so any comment about Rangers/Sevco and the sectarian views of their fans is unfortunately irrelevant in the context of the thread. Of course there might be an element of deflection from them to cover up the fact that they were comfortably beaten on the night (before the racist incident took place), but the bottom line for me is that there is not and never will be any excuse for racist behaviour during a football match, whether it's in the stand or on the pitch.

[The Harp Awakes]

There's 2 seperate issues here, the racist remark against Kamara, and the hypocrisy of the team from Ibrox with their sectarian views, whatever they should legally be called. Both of these issues are evil and shouldn't be tolerated at any level, but this thread is about a racist remark made against Kamara so any comment about Rangers/Sevco and the sectarian views of their fans is unfortunately irrelevant in the context of the thread. Of course there might be an element of deflection from them to cover up the fact that they were comfortably beaten on the night (before the racist incident took place), but the bottom line for me is that there is not and never will be any excuse for racist behaviour during a football match, whether it's in the stand or on the pitch.

Totally disagree, particularly the bit highlighted in bold.

An analogy would be, a misogynist (lets call them A) accusing another misogynist (B) of misogyny. B may well be guilty, but A is guilty as well. Therefore, they are not 2 separate issues as you suggest.

[RoYO!]

I think Kamara is telling the truth and if it’s at all possible to stand it up I hope the Slavia player gets hammered but the stench of hypocrisy from Sevconians and their orange shirted club is truly sickening.

If the likes of Kamara stood up for the taigs, tarriers and fenian *******s the way he’s standing up for himself, Scottish football would be in a much better place.


But, but, but the orange shirt is to celebrate the Dutch connection the club had 20 odd years ago. FACT. Billy Dodds and Neil McCann(?) told me on the radio!

Still one of the most baffling examples of fingers in the ears lalalalala, blinkered nonsense, I've ever listened to. Thank goodness for Mikey Stewart there to attempt to push them on it.

Apparently, the accusation also includes the covering up of cameras in the tunnel. Could be a lot more to come in the fallout from this match up.

[Hibby70]

Totally buddy.

Like I posted, it comes down to family values for me, and I was lucky I had parents who didn't differentiate between colour, religion, or anything - my father's best friend was an Iraqi professor who was sadly killed when he returned to his country under their regime. A quite wonderful, humble, and educated man.

My best friends at school (in Edinburgh) included Asians and Chinese guys who I still class as friends today and always will - not because of their race, purely because they were top lads and we shared the same interests, and it never came into any conversation that we were 'different'.

I was lucky - as many are - that we had families that didn't discriminate. For me, it starts there - in the home.

Unfortunately it starting in the home can sometimes be the problem. I would imagine that a large proportion of racists have racist parents and siblings. It's how to break that cycle.

Having more classmates of different races/religions could help but a huge part of it will be education and example setting from those in positions of power or celebrity/sporting status.

[danhibees1875]

Totally disagree, particularly the bit highlighted in bold.

An analogy would be, a misogynist (lets call them A) accusing another misogynist (B) of misogyny. B may well be guilty, but A is guilty as well. Therefore, they are not 2 separate issues as you suggest.

Would that not only begin to make sense if Kamara himself was a racist?

[Jones28]

Totally disagree, particularly the bit highlighted in bold.

An analogy would be, a misogynist (lets call them A) accusing another misogynist (B) of misogyny. B may well be guilty, but A is guilty as well. Therefore, they are not 2 separate issues as you suggest.

Pish.

They are totally separate issues.

[blackpoolhibs]

Pish.

They are totally separate issues.

I disagree, you cant have the club coming out with statements about how wrong racism is, when they ignore and condone bigotry EVERY week of the year.

They are joined together with the hypocrisy of their statement.

[Heckys Wheel]

Pish.

They are totally separate issues.

There’s a lot of pish on this thread.

If you’re saying racism is bad BUT.... You are part of the problem.
If you’re saying racism is bad BUT WHAT ABOUT WHEN.... You are part of the problem.
If your moral compass changes direction depending on what football team is affected..... You are part of the problem.

[Jones28]

I disagree, you cant have the club coming out with statements about how wrong racism is, when they ignore and condone bigotry EVERY week of the year.

They are joined together with the hypocrisy of their statement.

That’s not the issue here. You can’t conflate the two, you can’t apply whatabouttery, you can’t sweep it away because it’s Rangers.

Something was said to a black Rangers player that was deemed worthy of an allegedly pre-meditated assault by professional athletes.

[neil7908]

There's 2 seperate issues here, the racist remark against Kamara, and the hypocrisy of the team from Ibrox with their sectarian views, whatever they should legally be called. Both of these issues are evil and shouldn't be tolerated at any level, but this thread is about a racist remark made against Kamara so any comment about Rangers/Sevco and the sectarian views of their fans is unfortunately irrelevant in the context of the thread. Of course there might be an element of deflection from them to cover up the fact that they were comfortably beaten on the night (before the racist incident took place), but the bottom line for me is that there is not and never will be any excuse for racist behaviour during a football match, whether it's in the stand or on the pitch.

With all respect, that's exactly the approach Sevco wants everyone to take. They want us to just think about this one incident, where they are 100% right to back their player and denounce racism.

It doesn't work like that though. If we keep taking that stance then we will have sectarianism in our game forever. Sevco can't issue a statement condemning bigotry and expect no one to challenge them for the utter hypocrisy of it all. If they want to be taken seriously then they need to start challenging their own fans and issuing bans etc.

For me, I'll stand 100% behind Glen Kamara and against racism. But I'll not be standing behind or backing Sevco or anything they say until their own behaviour is addressed.

And this incident and the behaviour of the club and their fans is totally relevant.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Racism is disgusting and abhorrent.

Rangers and their support acting as a standard bearer in the fight against such behaviour is off the scale hypocrisy.

True Rangers have by far the most racist support in Scotland and the hatred and bigotry from them needs to stop hopefully Kamara calls out Rangers fans when they sing about being up to the knees in fenian blood. Slavia are standing by the player who knows what was said. Racism and sectarian abuse is unwanted.

[superfurryhibby]

There’s a lot of pish on this thread.

If you’re saying racism is bad BUT.... You are part of the problem.
If you’re saying racism is bad BUT WHAT ABOUT WHEN.... You are part of the problem.
If your moral compass changes direction depending on what football team is affected..... You are part of the problem.

If you earn your wage from an institution that is steeped in bigotry, whose supporters culture is deeply embedded in hatred of a particular faith, are you part of the problem too?

[Magpie]

It’s surprising that Rangers have spoken so strongly of their fight against racism when they condemn the behaviour of anti-Irish racism on a weekly basis from those who attend their games.

[WhileTheChief..]

Unfortunately it starting in the home can sometimes be the problem. I would imagine that a large proportion of racists have racist parents and siblings. It's how to break that cycle.

Well said. It’s the same with the sectarian issue as well.

A poster above mentioned how lucky he was in the way he was brought up. This shouldn’t be overlooked.

There are kids that get dragged up by what some might call the dregs of society. What chance have they got?

If, from the moment they could hear, they were told about fenian’s or the N word, then it’s obvious they will grow up with a different outlook on life. Is it their fault though?

Now go back 40, 50 , 60 years. The kids of these days are the parents and grand parents shouting and singing this guff at Ibrox now.

It’s the easiest thing in the world to go around finger pointing, even easier now with the internet and forums. What you will rarely read though is any opinion on how to fix it other than ‘punish Rangers’.

[blackpoolhibs]

That’s not the issue here. You can’t conflate the two, you can’t apply whatabouttery, you can’t sweep it away because it’s Rangers.

Something was said to a black Rangers player that was deemed worthy of an allegedly pre-meditated assault by professional athletes.
I can, and in my opinion it is not whataboutery. Just seen their statement this morning on sky sports news, where they condemn all kinds of racism and bigotry, no they dont and never have.

Kamara should have the weight of the authorities behind him, in fact i dont think i have read anything to the contrary? But the club he plays for never will and never have been against all forms of racism and bigotry, so by them commenting on it and lying, they make the two situations connected.

[WhileTheChief..]

I just saw these statements on SSN.

I think that with Rangers saying this they will now have no option but to try and tackle sectarianism at Ibrox.

Can they really be that blazen to say they are against all forms of bigotry and then continue as normal?

Question is, what can the club actually do - other than avoid the colour orange?!

[KeithTheHibby]

Whilst I don’t think there is much doubt that Kamara is telling f the truth how do the authorities prove it? I seriously doubt you can.
Mind the John Terry incident? Mind the footage? Clear as mud what he said yet still anything but clear cut with how it was dealt with.

[Heckys Wheel]

If you earn your wage from an institution that is steeped in bigotry, whose supporters culture is deeply embedded in hatred of a particular faith, are you part of the problem too?

Are you saying Kamara is part of the problem?

[hibsbollah]

Whilst I don’t think there is much doubt that Kamara is telling f the truth how do the authorities prove it? I seriously doubt you can.
Mind the John Terry incident? Mind the footage? Clear as mud what he said yet still anything but clear cut with how it was dealt with.

:agree: Terry and Anton Ferdinand are giving each other angry verbals. Terry calls him a Fing black see u next Tuesday. Clear as day on footage. It goes to a disciplinary panel. Terry admits he used those words, but claims he was saying ‘that guy called you a see you next Tuesday’ in reportage. The FA commission believes this horse crap. Chucks it out for lack of evidence. Not an isolated incident either, UEFA and FIFA have probably been equally as useless. Which is why thinking the authorities will do anything about this case when there seems to be no audio is wishful thinking.

[superfurryhibby]

Are you saying Kamara is part of the problem?

I think that was a question for you to answer, particularly given your massively sweeping and judgemental statement.

My own take is that there is no hierarchy of abuse or discrimination, just degrees of severity. Speaking personally, I wouldn’t suck the devils cock to earn my living. Those that do are complicit.

[bigwheel]

If you earn your wage from an institution that is steeped in bigotry, whose supporters culture is deeply embedded in hatred of a particular faith, are you part of the problem too?

To suggest Kamara is part of the problem, rather than empathise with him experiencing racism just going about his job is a weird response ..

There are some players, Goram for example, who go full on with the Ibrox bigotry, so yes hold these types to account...but most footballers are just trying to play at the highest level they can and Rangers are a decent level to play at. Players don’t adopt beliefs held by the fans of their clubs.....to suggest anyone who plays or played for them is complicit is a woeful argument. Is Darren McGregor complicit ??


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[hibsbollah]

I think that was a question for you to answer, particularly given your massively sweeping and judgemental statement.

My own take is that there is no hierarchy of abuse or discrimination, just degrees of severity. Speaking personally, I wouldn’t suck the devils cock to earn my living. Those that do are complicit.

Imagine your son is the top player at his school. Playing two or three years above his year group he’s so good. Then he’s the best at his boys club. Scouts coming from everywhere. He gets the choice of top clubs. He has a chance to go to a club where he can earn ten times what he can earn at his local club. He trains with all the best facilities, works with the best coaches, and he’s finally playing with teammates who can do the things he can do. Then he gets racially abused because of the genes YOU gave him and somebody tells you he’s part of the problem because that club he chose was Rangers?

I think you’d want to give that guy something for his cheek.

[The Modfather]

I think that was a question for you to answer, particularly given your massively sweeping and judgemental statement.

My own take is that there is no hierarchy of abuse or discrimination, just degrees of severity. Speaking personally, I wouldn’t suck the devils cock to earn my living. Those that do are complicit.

I remember a few years ago when the banks were in the firing line and very much in the publics sights with libor, bank charges etc. When it came up in conversation I worked in a bank people were visibly taken back. I’d never experienced anything like it. Should I have felt guilty or was I complicit in what the banks were doing? I didn’t feel any guilt or complicity as I was/am simply doing the same job lots of people do across lots of different offices to earn a living and provide for my family.

[jeffers]

Imagine your son is the top player at his school. Playing two or three years above his year group he’s so good. Then he’s the best at his boys club. Scouts coming from everywhere. He gets the choice of top clubs. He has a chance to go to a club where he can earn ten times what he can earn at his local club. He trains with all the best facilities, works with the best coaches, and he’s finally playing with teammates who can do the things he can do. Then he gets racially abused because of the genes YOU gave him and somebody tells you he’s part of the problem because that club he chose was Rangers?

I think you’d want to give that guy something for his cheek.

While Kamara and his black team mates aren’t part of the racist problem in playing for The Rangers they are IMO part of the religious bigotry problem. As footballers they have a ideal platform to stand up against it, but they choose to say nothing. They don’t want to be victimised due to the colour of their skin but in playing for Rangers they are condoning abuse of thousands of people on a weekly basis due to their religious beliefs.

[CropleyWasGod]

While Kamara and his black team mates aren’t part of the racist problem in playing for The Rangers they are IMO part of the religious bigotry problem. As footballers they have a ideal platform to stand up against it, but they choose to say nothing. They don’t want to be victimised due to the colour of their skin but in playing for Rangers they are condoning abuse of thousands of people on a weekly basis due to their religious beliefs.

What should they do or say on this platform?

[jeffers]

What should they do or say on this platform?

Along the lines of as Black players we stand against bigotry of all kinds whether it be race based or religious.

[Wakeyhibee]

I just saw these statements on SSN.

I think that with Rangers saying this they will now have no option but to try and tackle sectarianism at Ibrox.

Can they really be that blazen to say they are against all forms of bigotry and then continue as normal?

Question is, what can the club actually do - other than avoid the colour orange?!

Was thinking this, they may have just heaped a load of pressure on themselves via UEFA. Whilst I've no confidence in UEFA (or Rangers), UEFA are under a lot of financial difficulties themselves with the big clubs and losses from the pandemic.

[Sylar]

I see the Slavia fans are doubling down on the stereotype of racist fans as a cancer in Eastern Europe.

Pictured holding a banner that reads “Kamara - Just a n*****”.

Horrific *******s.

[calumhibee1]

While Kamara and his black team mates aren’t part of the racist problem in playing for The Rangers they are IMO part of the religious bigotry problem. As footballers they have a ideal platform to stand up against it, but they choose to say nothing. They don’t want to be victimised due to the colour of their skin but in playing for Rangers they are condoning abuse of thousands of people on a weekly basis due to their religious beliefs.

:agree:

Hard to disagree with really. We get told all the time, whether it’s racism, women’s rights etc that it’s not enough to just not be racist (or whatever the situation is) and that you need to be actively against it or else you’re part of the problem.

Rangers players and staff are in the ideal position to do more than just not be bigoted when it comes to bigotry yet not one of them do anything. I wouldn’t expect any of them to pass up the opportunity of playing for Rangers due to the fact it is a bigoted club as they’re footballers wanting to play football at the highest level possible and for the largest sums of money possible. What goes on behind the scenes quite rightly doesn’t make a lot of odds to their decision to sign for them.

That being said, it has absolutely nothing to do with the situation with Kamara. Two wrongs don’t make a right. He could even be openly bigoted (which I’m not for one minute suggesting he is) and he’d still be doing the right thing by calling out the racism he has encountered on Thursday.

[superfurryhibby]

To suggest Kamara is part of the problem, rather than empathise with him experiencing racism just going about his job is a weird response ..

There are some players, Goram for example, who go full on with the Ibrox bigotry, so yes hold these types to account...but most footballers are just trying to play at the highest level they can and Rangers are a decent level to play at. Players don’t adopt beliefs held by the fans of their clubs.....to suggest anyone who plays or played for them is complicit is a woeful argument. Is Darren McGregor complicit ??


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So, no one sees the dichotomy here?

I loathe racism, sexism, discrimination in any shape or form. So much self righteous judgement going on.... Who says I don’t empathise with him? It’s almost like there is an agenda or script one must stick to here.

I don’t care about the various irrelevant analogies people are drawing to support their own inferences. I could make many myself, but it’s tedious.

Bottom line is as previously stated, However, I’ll spell it out again. Racial abuse of Kamara or any other footballer player is unacceptable. That said he works for, through choice, a club that has a racist, sectarian, hate based identity. The club’s supporters openly proclaim their racist, sectarian beliefs en masse at any opportunity.

There is a discussion in there and it isn’t just a black or white issue. You can surely loathe racism and still question why anyone would want to be part of a racist organisation?

[hibbysam]

Along the lines of as Black players we stand against bigotry of all kinds whether it be race based or religious.

Isn’t that exactly what he says in his statement? ‘There is no place for racism or any form of bigotry in football’ 🤷🏽*♂️

[Smartie]

Imagine your son is the top player at his school. Playing two or three years above his year group he’s so good. Then he’s the best at his boys club. Scouts coming from everywhere. He gets the choice of top clubs. He has a chance to go to a club where he can earn ten times what he can earn at his local club. He trains with all the best facilities, works with the best coaches, and he’s finally playing with teammates who can do the things he can do. Then he gets racially abused because of the genes YOU gave him and somebody tells you he’s part of the problem because that club he chose was Rangers?

I think you’d want to give that guy something for his cheek.

In that situation, I’d expect my son to have the pick of a few clubs. Rangers might be the one that ticks the most boxes but playing for Rangers comes with a flip side and a certain baggage. In signing for them you can’t just airbrush out the negative connotations that exist in the eyes of some as you strut your stuff on a Saturday afternoon at Ibrox, in blue and white, with the Rangers badge on your chest to the tune of “up to our knees in Fenian blood” whatever your own heritage is.

I have 2 brothers - one is an active serviceman in the British armed forces and another is soon to re-enter the payroll of News UK. Both these positions have allowed them to enjoy quite incredible experiences as well as put food on the table, and they could have taken other jobs instead. They have to own, however, the fact that their positions carry connotations in the eyes of some. One’s unlikely to find love with Grainne from the Falls Road, the other can’t ever look someone from Merseyside in the eye and discuss his employment history.

Playing for Rangers will bring with it many positives for a player. Because of the Rangers / Celtic rivalry being what it is you’ll have to cop an earful in the street from time to time. But also, if you happen to find yourself being racially abused and wanting to have people have your back, you have to accept that you take an impressive wage to represent an institution that picks and chooses the types of racism it tolerates. Under those circumstances, some people’s support won’t be as unequivocal and unconditional as arguably it should.

[Since90+2]

Glen Kamara signed for Rangers from Dundee so probably went from about £1000 a week to £7000 or £8000 a week.

If that was offered to me I'd be along the M8 as fast as you like. And so would almost every single person on this thread, despite what they may claim.

[The Modfather]

In that situation, I’d expect my son to have the pick of a few clubs. Rangers might be the one that ticks the most boxes but playing for Rangers comes with a flip side and a certain baggage. In signing for them you can’t just airbrush out the negative connotations that exist in the eyes of some as you strut your stuff on a Saturday afternoon at Ibrox, in blue and white, with the Rangers badge on your chest to the tune of “up to our knees in Fenian blood” whatever your own heritage is.

I have 2 brothers - one is an active serviceman in the British armed forces and another is soon to re-enter the payroll of News UK. Both these positions have allowed them to enjoy quite incredible experiences as well as put food on the table, and they could have taken other jobs instead. They have to own, however, the fact that their positions carry connotations in the eyes of some. One’s unlikely to find love with Grainne from the Falls Road, the other can’t ever look someone from Merseyside in the eye and discuss his employment history.

Playing for Rangers will bring with it many positives for a player. Because of the Rangers / Celtic rivalry being what it is you’ll have to cop an earful in the street from time to time. But also, if you happen to find yourself being racially abused and wanting to have people have your back, you have to accept that you take an impressive wage to represent an institution that picks and chooses the types of racism it tolerates. Under those circumstances, some people’s support won’t be as unequivocal and unconditional as arguably it should.

To go back to my banking example on the previous page. I don’t like much of the way banks have/do make their money and their recent scandals etc. However in Edinburgh banks are a major part of financial services that hire a lot of the city.

Am I complicit or part of the problem (labels levelled at Kamara) in the behaviour of banks as I work for one? A day to day role working in a bank probably isn’t much different to working for an accountant, for example. On a day to day basis is it much different for Kamara playing for Rangers to any other club?

For me Kamara is just an individual doing a job to provide for his family. He’s been subjected to racism it seems, so it’s not fair to correlate that to something that is an institutional and societal problem. Kamara is just a guy doing a job at the end of the day IMO, no more no less.

[Andy74]

Glen Kamara signed for Rangers from Dundee so probably went from about £1000 a week to £7000 or £8000 a week.

If that was offered to me I'd be along the M8 as fast as you like. And so would almost every single person on this thread, despite what they may claim.

I have absolutely no doubt that I would never work for Rangers in any capacity. If you think that most people are just claiming this then perhaps you are underestimating the disgust that most people will have towards just about everything they stand for.

If my value is 7 times my current wage then someone else will pay near enough. If it is Rangers or carry on then I’d carry on thanks.

[James Stephen]

Glen Kamara signed for Rangers from Dundee so probably went from about £1000 a week to £7000 or £8000 a week.

If that was offered to me I'd be along the M8 as fast as you like. And so would almost every single person on this thread, despite what they may claim.

So if, for example you are an office manager. If the BNP, or the DUP, or the KKK offered to quadruple your salary if you went to work for them, would you do it?

I know i wouldn't.

[Since90+2]

So, no one sees the dichotomy here?

I loathe racism, sexism, discrimination in any shape or form. So much self righteous judgement going on.... Who says I don’t empathise with him? It’s almost like there is an agenda or script one must stick to here.

I don’t care about the various irrelevant analogies people are drawing to support their own inferences. I could make many myself, but it’s tedious.

Bottom line is as previously stated, However, I’ll spell it out again. Racial abuse of Kamara or any other footballer player is unacceptable. That said he works for, through choice, a club that has a racist, sectarian, hate based identity. The club’s supporters openly proclaim their racist, sectarian beliefs en masse at any opportunity.

There is a discussion in there and it isn’t just a black or white issue. You can surely loathe racism and still question why anyone would want to be part of a racist organisation?

I'm guessing you have nothing good to ever say about Russell Latapy or Darren McGregor then given they were also complicit in your eyes.

[Keith_M]

I see the Slavia fans are doubling down on the stereotype of racist fans as a cancer in Eastern Europe.

Pictured holding a banner that reads “Kamara - Just a n*****”.

Horrific *******s.



I've avoided making this comment before, as it's almost like displaying prejudice by doing so, but there does seem to be a big problem with racism in some former Eastern Bloc countries.

I'm not in any way claiming that they're all racist, or that racism doesn't exist elsewhere... but there's been quite a few examples of this at football matches in Eastern Europe in the last few years (e.g. the campaign to restrict the Russian national team to white players).

[bigwheel]

I have absolutely no doubt that I would never work for Rangers in any capacity. If you think that most people are just claiming this then perhaps you are underestimating the disgust that most people will have towards just about everything they stand for.

If my value is 7 times my current wage then someone else will pay near enough. If it is Rangers or carry on then I’d carry on thanks.


Once you’re in the game , it’s a job ...there’s very few players (if any) that if they had the chance to move from Hibs to Rangers would refuse it ..and most people on this thread , wether they admit it or not, would be the same if they were a player in the game. Those suggesting Kamara has some complicity in the bigoted views of the Rangers fans and the heritage of the club are looking at the world through a fans paradigm.

Footballers make work decisions not emotive fan decisions . Whilst there remains areas for Rangers to address, the recent post comparing them to the BNP or KKK is an example of a fans view ...

[660]

Glen Kamara signed for Rangers from Dundee so probably went from about £1000 a week to £7000 or £8000 a week.

If that was offered to me I'd be along the M8 as fast as you like. And so would almost every single person on this thread, despite what they may claim.

If Rangers were the only football club on the planet I’d agree but they’re not. If they were offering me that cash, I’d instruct my agent to find a non-loathsome club who were interested. Your hypothetical scenario would never actually happen

[Since90+2]

If Rangers were the only football club on the planet I’d agree but they’re not. If they were offering me that cash, I’d instruct my agent to find a non-loathsome club who were interested. Your hypothetical scenario would never actually happen

Let's remember he was playing for an atrocious Dundee side. Clubs in England were hardly going to be lining up to pay him a decent wage.

I'd imagine Rangers would have been the best financial offer on the table.

[FilipinoHibs]

I've avoided making this comment before, as it's almost like displaying prejudice by doing so, but there does seem to be a big problem with racism in some former Eastern Bloc countries.

I'm not in any way claiming that they're all racist, or that racism doesn't exist elsewhere... but there's been quite a few examples of this at football matches in Eastern Europe in the last few years (e.g. the campaign to restrict the Russian national team to white players).

Eastern Europe is like any society a a mixture of beliefs and politics. There is a long history of support for fascist movements going back to the 2nd World War. But there are also many progressive anti fascist movements. The reactionaries unfortunately attach themselves to football teams.

[superfurryhibby]

I'm guessing you have nothing good to ever say about Russell Latapy or Darren McGregor then given they were also complicit in your eyes.

It’s between each person and their conscience.

Why can’t I admire them as footballers but still condemn Rangers FC and all they stand for?

Can someone not be part of a morally bereft institution themselves, yet suffer prejudice? That was the point I’m making. I’m baffled why this is so hard to grasp for some folk.

.

[hibsbollah]

In that situation, I’d expect my son to have the pick of a few clubs. Rangers might be the one that ticks the most boxes but playing for Rangers comes with a flip side and a certain baggage. In signing for them you can’t just airbrush out the negative connotations that exist in the eyes of some as you strut your stuff on a Saturday afternoon at Ibrox, in blue and white, with the Rangers badge on your chest to the tune of “up to our knees in Fenian blood” whatever your own heritage is.

I have 2 brothers - one is an active serviceman in the British armed forces and another is soon to re-enter the payroll of News UK. Both these positions have allowed them to enjoy quite incredible experiences as well as put food on the table, and they could have taken other jobs instead. They have to own, however, the fact that their positions carry connotations in the eyes of some. One’s unlikely to find love with Grainne from the Falls Road, the other can’t ever look someone from Merseyside in the eye and discuss his employment history.

Playing for Rangers will bring with it many positives for a player. Because of the Rangers / Celtic rivalry being what it is you’ll have to cop an earful in the street from time to time. But also, if you happen to find yourself being racially abused and wanting to have people have your back, you have to accept that you take an impressive wage to represent an institution that picks and chooses the types of racism it tolerates. Under those circumstances, some people’s support won’t be as unequivocal and unconditional as arguably it should.

I understand your general point. But you’ve lost me at the last sentence ‘under those circumstances, some people’s support wont being as unconditional and unequivocal as arguably it should’...

Fine. But as a general point, that’s fine. But in the circumstances being discussed, someone called him a ‘****ing monkey’. And now we’re down a rabbit hole which however some folk try to dress it up, equates to; this indefensible thing now becomes defensible. Because he plays for Rangers who are now the same as the BNP or the KKK. As has been said, the whole discussion is a car crash and there’s a definite lack of perspective going on.

[Keith_M]

Eastern Europe is like any society a a mixture of beliefs and politics. There is a long history of support for fascist movements going back to the 2nd World War. But there are also many progressive anti fascist movements. The reactionaries unfortunately attach themselves to football teams.


Sadly, the reactionaries also attach themselves to politics, and I have wondered before if those with more extreme beliefs feel their views are somehow 'justified', much in the same way that Trump was doing in the US.

During the refugee crisis a few years back, there was a glaringly obvious defiance to take in refugees in certain countries. For instance, Poland and Slovakia insisted they would only accept 'Christians', and other countries, such as Hungary, either refused entirely or took in pathetically small numbers.

These things hardly send out a positive message.

[MWHIBBIES]

Glen Kamara signed for Rangers from Dundee so probably went from about £1000 a week to £7000 or £8000 a week.

If that was offered to me I'd be along the M8 as fast as you like. And so would almost every single person on this thread, despite what they may claim.

I would never work for Rangers or Celtic in any capacity. If they offered me 8k a week, someone else would offer me it as well.

[Andy74]

Once you’re in the game , it’s a job ...there’s very few players (if any) that if they had the chance to move from Hibs to Rangers would refuse it ..and most people on this thread , wether they admit it or not, would be the same if they were a player in the game. Those suggesting Kamara has some complicity in the bigoted views of the Rangers fans and the heritage of the club are looking at the world through a fans paradigm.

Footballers make work decisions not emotive fan decisions . Whilst there remains areas for Rangers to address, the recent post comparing them to the BNP or KKK is an example of a fans view ...

It has nothing to do with football really so it’s not a fans view. I’m sure most of us could work for Rangers in one role or another. I wouldn’t work for them and there are a very small number of companies that would apply to. The BNP, DUP examples are comparable.

[WhileTheChief..]

:agree:

Hard to disagree with really. We get told all the time, whether it’s racism, women’s rights etc that it’s not enough to just not be racist (or whatever the situation is) and that you need to be actively against it or else you’re part of the problem.

See this a lot online, usually posted by people trying too hard to show how anti whatever they are.

I don’t do anything about religious bigotry in this country but I am in no way whatsoever responsible for the sectarian issues coming out of Ibrox.

When folk throw that line at me it means nowt.

[superfurryhibby]

I understand your general point. But you’ve lost me at the last sentence ‘under those circumstances, some people’s support wont being as unconditional and unequivocal as arguably it should’...

Fine. But as a general point, that’s fine. But in the circumstances being discussed, someone called him a ‘****ing monkey’. And now we’re down a rabbit hole which however some folk try to dress it up, equates to; this indefensible thing now becomes defensible. Because he plays for Rangers who are now the same as the BNP or the KKK. As has been said, the whole discussion is a car crash and there’s a definite lack of perspective going on.

300 replies and counting and not one person has said anything that makes the indefensible defensible? I haven’t seen a reply that suggests racism is ok or that Kamara was wrong in being outraged by what was said to him?

[hibsbollah]

300 replies and counting and not one person has said anything that makes the indefensible defensible? I haven’t seen a reply that suggests racism is ok or that Kamara was wrong in being outraged by what was said to him?

I’m fairly sure nobody SAYS racism is OK. Le Pen and Tommy Robinson don’t say Racism is OK. That doesn’t mean stupid analogies and ridiculous exaggerations aren’t being made.

I just return to my Glen Kamaras dad analogy, put yourself in that persons position, read this thread and try to find any other translation than ‘it’s partly your boys fault he got called a monkey because he signed for Rangers, who hate fenians’.

[Kaff]

Starting immediately Rangers could go to local primary schools with their community coaches and have fun sessions, every week they could do 2 or 3 schools of all denominations and publicly state their players want to join in and go there to spread the word about inclusiveness and anti bigotry of all kinds.
This could be measured straight away in the level and importance of who attends the sessions, get the big stars and management along at the Catholic primary school as well as the mixed denomination and make it a long full year programme.
It will cost money and a lot of the momentum can fall away in these things but it would be such an easy thing to do. The players say they are against bigotry and this gives them a chance to publicly show their mettle without going against the club hierarchy.

[Jones28]

So if, for example you are an office manager. If the BNP, or the DUP, or the KKK offered to quadruple your salary if you went to work for them, would you do it?

I know i wouldn't.

****ing mental to equate a football club to any of those vile organisations.

[hibbysam]

It’s between each person and their conscience.

Why can’t I admire them as footballers but still condemn Rangers FC and all they stand for?

Can someone not be part of a morally bereft institution themselves, yet suffer prejudice? That was the point I’m making. I’m baffled why this is so hard to grasp for some folk.

.

This is about an individual being abused, nothing whatsoever to do with the football club. I’d wager that nearly all institutions are morally bereft in one way or another, that doesn’t mean any employees should be abused or make it any less of an issue. This issue deserves a space of its own, trying to dilute it by saying how crude an organisation Rangers is doing a massive disservice to the problem at hand. When there are examples of sectarianism or racism or any other forms of bigotry then they should be called out and confronted as well.

[hibbysam]

Starting immediately Rangers could go to local primary schools with their community coaches and have fun sessions, every week they could do 2 or 3 schools of all denominations and publicly state their players want to join in and go there to spread the word about inclusiveness and anti bigotry of all kinds.
This could be measured straight away in the level and importance of who attends the sessions, get the big stars and management along at the Catholic primary school as well as the mixed denomination and make it a long full year programme.
It will cost money and a lot of the momentum can fall away in these things but it would be such an easy thing to do. The players say they are against bigotry and this gives them a chance to publicly show their mettle without going against the club hierarchy.

What has any of that got to do with Glen Kamara being racially abused?

[hibsbollah]

****ing mental to equate a football club to any of those vile organisations.

:agree: I can’t ****ing believe what I’m reading to be honest. The KKK and the Rangers are NOT comparable.

[MrRobot]

:agree: I can’t ****ing believe what I’m reading to be honest. The KKK and the Rangers are NOT comparable.

:agree:

absolutely mental the pish people come out with.

[Bishop Hibee]

I’m fairly sure nobody SAYS racism is OK. Le Pen and Tommy Robinson don’t say Racism is OK. That doesn’t mean stupid analogies and ridiculous exaggerations aren’t being made.

I just return to my Glen Kamaras dad analogy, put yourself in that persons position, read this thread and try to find any other translation than ‘it’s partly your boys fault he got called a monkey because he signed for Rangers, who hate fenians’.

I have andI can. The racism roundly condemned and in my opinion there should be a lengthy ban from playing for the player who made the racist comment.

There’s also the ‘whitabootery’ which is natural although it should have had a separate thread. Stickers saying “all Taigs are targets” outside a Catholic primary school in Bearsden. All forms of discrimination need called out including the hypocrisy of denouncing one type and tacitly agreeing with another.

[Iggy Pope]

:agree: I can’t ****ing believe what I’m reading to be honest. The KKK and the Rangers are NOT comparable.

Took my baby away the *******s.:greengrin

[Smartie]

I just return to my Glen Kamaras dad analogy, put yourself in that persons position, read this thread and try to find any other translation than ‘it’s partly your boys fault he got called a monkey because he signed for Rangers, who hate fenians’.

I can find a subtly different - but different nonetheless - translation, that being "Rangers have a bit of baggage. Many people up and down the country have themselves been victims of sectarian abuse, often verbal, sometimes physical, at the hands of their supporters. You might find yourself on the receiving end of abhorrent, indefensible abuse which regrettably still occurs from time to time in the game today although mercifully much less than before. In that situation you might reasonably expect the unreserved and unequivocal support of everyone, however, please bear in mind that some people who have themselves been witness to or victims of other types of abuse might find it a tad challenging to unquestioningly leap to the defence of a player who takes a handsome wage, entertains and rewards fans and says nothing about any abuse being doled out by those fans expecting unquestioned support in return. The vast majority will be supportive of you, some won't. If you can't deal with that, there are other clubs to play for."

[bigwheel]

It has nothing to do with football really so it’s not a fans view. I’m sure most of us could work for Rangers in one role or another. I wouldn’t work for them and there are a very small number of companies that would apply to. The BNP, DUP examples are comparable.

If you’re a footballer, it is all to do with Football...

You may be one of the minority, no idea...but the values that people are holding against Rangers are fans views of clubs, not people who work in the industry’s views ..for most , they would realise as a footballer, it would be a top place in Scotland to work and develop and would be happy to join them.

[Keith_M]

Obviously not a Rangers Fan...


:wink:


https://i2-prod.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article4560805.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/JS50046944.jpg

[superfurryhibby]

I’m fairly sure nobody SAYS racism is OK. Le Pen and Tommy Robinson don’t say Racism is OK. That doesn’t mean stupid analogies and ridiculous exaggerations aren’t being made.

I just return to my Glen Kamaras dad analogy, put yourself in that persons position, read this thread and try to find any other translation than ‘it’s partly your boys fault he got called a monkey because he signed for Rangers, who hate fenians’.

No. Your point is misguided. If I were Kamara”s auld man reading this thread I would recognise that every contribution has pretty much unanimously condemned the racist behaviour alleged to have taken place. I would be very heartened by the fact that most of us are fully accepting of his son’s version of events and would think why the **** us my son earning his money from such a despicably hypocritical horror show of a football team.

That’s how I would feel.

[hibsbollah]

If you’re a footballer, it is all to do with Football...

You may be one of the minority, no idea...but the values that people are holding against Rangers are fans views of clubs, not people who work in the industry’s views ..for most , they would realise as a footballer, it would be a top place in Scotland to work and develop and would be happy to join them.

Exactly.

[EI255]

Still waiting for Roofe to get charged for assaulting the Salvia gk. Absolutely horrific assault.

I see Huns have unleashed banners in support of Kamara at the training ground. However, rewind to 1980s and it was a very different story at Castle Greyskull.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[James Stephen]

****ing mental to equate a football club to any of those vile organisations.

Is it?

Organisations that promote, fement and profit from racism and anti-catholic bigotry.

Who, for most of their history, actively excluded those people from their institution.

Imagine Rangers were an anti islamic, anti asian club based on west yorkshire who actively promote hatred and exclusion.

They would have been shut down years ago.

Racism is an ill on society and football. But it is not anymore of an ill than anti catholic bigotry in the context of Scottish football and society.

So if all forms of discrimination are unacceptable, then by definition the huns are a huge part of that problem, and still actively support and contribute to it.

That doesnt diminish what seems to have happened to kamara, but it does make the crocodile tears of his employer insulting.

[superfurryhibby]

If you’re a footballer, it is all to do with Football...

You may be one of the minority, no idea...but the values that people are holding against Rangers are fans views of clubs, not people who work in the industry’s views ..for most , they would realise as a footballer, it would be a top place in Scotland to work and develop and would be happy to join them.

Playing football or any other sport doesn’t grant exemption from wider moral and ethical issues though?

I’ll be more convinced when Rangers directors and management speak of their revulsion and strongly condemn their fans racist and bigoted songbook? Won’t be holding my breath for that one to happen though.

[Andy74]

If you’re a footballer, it is all to do with Football...

You may be one of the minority, no idea...but the values that people are holding against Rangers are fans views of clubs, not people who work in the industry’s views ..for most , they would realise as a footballer, it would be a top place in Scotland to work and develop and would be happy to join them.

It would equally be a good place to work in marketing, or be finance director, or club Secretary. They are just jobs and I abs many others wouldn’t take any of them at the club.

I wish they were just a football club. One look through any social media thread at the stuff you would be associating yourself with shows it is absolutely comparable to those other vile organisations that have been mentioned.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Obviously not a Rangers Fan...


:wink:


https://i2-prod.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article4560805.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/JS50046944.jpg

WTF is that all about?:wtf:

[Keith_M]

WTF is that all about?:wtf:


I'm obviously just being mischievous in posting the photo (because of previous posts), but it was at a Loyalist Flute Band evening in High Blantyre, Lanarkshire about six years ago.


https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/shocking-picture-man-dressed-ku-4560734

[Kaff]

What has any of that got to do with Glen Kamara being racially abused?

Nothing.
It's to deal with the perception of hypocrisy at the club by their stance in backing Kamara, it also permits the players to show their beliefs in inclusiveness with the clubs support. Head in the sand supporters could vilify a player if he was at a Catholic primary school off his own bat, O'Halleran (sp) got a lot of criticism for being photographed at an altar, I think when still signed there?

[blackpoolhibs]

If you’re a footballer, it is all to do with Football...

You may be one of the minority, no idea...but the values that people are holding against Rangers are fans views of clubs, not people who work in the industry’s views ..for most , they would realise as a footballer, it would be a top place in Scotland to work and develop and would be happy to join them.

So if that's the case, he is rightly offended by racism but will just turn a deaf ear to bigotry because it suits him.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I'm obviously just being mischievous in posting the photo (because of previous posts), but it was at a Loyalist Flute Band evening in High Blantyre, Lanarkshire about six years ago.


https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/shocking-picture-man-dressed-ku-4560734

That photo difficult to get one's head around. He turns up dressed like that and thinks it's okay, then he's actually posing for pictures. Didn't anybody ask questions, such as "what the hell are you doing here"? Or were others also dressed as the KKK:confused:? Bonkers.

[Onion]

Still waiting for Roofe to get charged for assaulting the Salvia gk. Absolutely horrific assault.

I see Huns have unleashed banners in support of Kamara at the training ground. However, rewind to 1980s and it was a very different story at Castle Greyskull.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

If so, it smacks of more attention-seeking and playing the victim by the Huns. Never let an opportunity go by !

By all means they should support the player and make representations to the appropriate places - SFA, UEFA, Slavia Prague and anyone else who can take action ....but local banners ? Or are they now suggesting the comments of one guy from Prague has flushed a much wider racism problem in Scotland that needs to be called out and addressed ? I suspect not.

[easty]

I wouldn’t work for the KKK, but if Rangers or the DUP or BNP wanted to quadruple my salary, I’d prob take it.

And by probably I mean definitely.

[Eyrie]

I wouldn’t work for the KKK, but if Rangers or the DUP or BNP wanted to quadruple my salary, I’d prob take it.

And by probably I mean definitely.

I'd think if the DUP or BNP were willing to quadruple your salary, you'd find another prospective employer willing to at least treble what you're currently on without the unpleasantries.

A football club like Sevco is slightly different, because it would not only offer the money but also a chance to win trophies which wouldn't be likely at a club in England offering similar cash.

[jeffers]

So if that's the case, he is rightly offended by racism but will just turn a deaf ear to bigotry because it suits him.

Sums it up for me bh.

[WhileTheChief..]

If so, it smacks of more attention-seeking and playing the victim by the Huns. Never let an opportunity go by !

By all means they should support the player and make representations to the appropriate places - SFA, UEFA, Slavia Prague and anyone else who can take action ....but local banners ? Or are they now suggesting the comments of one guy from Prague has flushed a much wider racism problem in Scotland that needs to be called out and addressed ? I suspect not.

Eh? Some leap you’re suggesting.

The banner is there so that he can see it when he turns up for training no?

The fans shouldn’t be expected to be going to the SFA or anyone else. They just want to back their own player.

[Onion]

Eh? Some leap you’re suggesting.

The banner is there so that he can see it when he turns up for training no?

The fans shouldn’t be expected to be going to the SFA or anyone else. They just want to back their own player.

Misunderstanding ...thought these were club "banners" :greengrin

[bigwheel]

So if that's the case, he is rightly offended by racism but will just turn a deaf ear to bigotry because it suits him.

don’t see how signing for Rangers endorses bigotry in any form ...players will be as depressed about that as many of us ....I think the step people are taking from the bile of their fans to the current club is flawed ...again, smacks of a fans emotive opinion, rather than a rounded one

It’s clear we have a bigotry problem in Scottish football and racism And other forms of hate too...our fans have been part of that too by the way ...skatchel song for example - shows some of our songs are hate filled too But to castigate a footballer for working at Rangers is a leap without balance imo

[Jim44]

So if that's the case, he is rightly offended by racism but will just turn a deaf ear to bigotry because it suits him.


Sums it up for me bh.

I think that’s about the size of it. Double standards. Racism is visible and in your face and ostensibly directed to individuals and likely to be considered more offensive, whereas religious bigotry is concerned with abstract concepts and beliefs and possibly not so immediately offensive. I find both offensive but I can see why some might consider one more instantly repulsive than the other.

[Andy74]

don’t see how signing for Rangers endorses bigotry in any form ...players will be as depressed about that as many of us ....I think the step people are taking from the bile of their fans to the current club is flawed ...again, smacks of a fans emotive opinion, rather than a rounded one

It’s clear we have a bigotry problem in Scottish football and racism And other forms of hate too...our fans have been part of that too by the way ...skatchel song for example - shows some of our songs are hate filled too But to castigate a footballer for working at Rangers is a leap without balance imo

A few folk have already said it but what goes on with Rangers and their fans takes it away from being an emotive football issue. If they were just disliked for being football rivals that would be a totally different thing.

If you don’t see the different levels of hate and bile involved then that’s up to you but with them it is in very large numbers, it is disgusting to a lot of us and for me that’s not something I could reconcile to be involved with them in any capacity.

[Bostonhibby]

WTF is that all about?:wtf:West of Scotland FC poppy seller?

Cannae see this being anything to do with the now defunct Glasgow rangers or their new club Sevco. They're against racism and intolerance.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Jones28]

Is it?

Organisations that promote, fement and profit from racism and anti-catholic bigotry.

Who, for most of their history, actively excluded those people from their institution.

Imagine Rangers were an anti islamic, anti asian club based on west yorkshire who actively promote hatred and exclusion.

They would have been shut down years ago.

Racism is an ill on society and football. But it is not anymore of an ill than anti catholic bigotry in the context of Scottish football and society.

So if all forms of discrimination are unacceptable, then by definition the huns are a huge part of that problem, and still actively support and contribute to it.

That doesnt diminish what seems to have happened to kamara, but it does make the crocodile tears of his employer insulting.

Yeah it is. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

[EI255]

Be great if the Huns could show same unity for all their very own anti Irish bigotry and pure hatred over the decades.

Arrogance and hypocrisy at orbit levels. Only The Rangers.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[bigwheel]

A few folk have already said it but what goes on with Rangers and their fans takes it away from being an emotive football issue. If they were just disliked for being football rivals that would be a totally different thing.

If you don’t see the different levels of hate and bile involved then that’s up to you but with them it is in very large numbers, it is disgusting to a lot of us and for me that’s not something I could reconcile to be involved with them in any capacity.

I see and hear all the bile and hate - but I’m a football fan ...and only football fans really care about that stuff . Footballers by and large don’t at all. Maurice Johnson ????

[blackpoolhibs]

I see and hear all the bile and hate - but I’m a football fan ...and only football fans really care about that stuff . Footballers by and large don’t at all. Maurice Johnson ????

Why do footballers care so much about racism and not bigotry?

[Bostonhibby]

Why do footballers care so much about racism and not bigotry?At sevco sectarian bigotry pays the bills?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[bigwheel]

Why do footballers care so much about racism and not bigotry?

I think they do. I don’t see Rangers as a bigoted club any more .. they need to do more to address their fans sure - not sure they will ..but their working environment there won’t be bigoted . That’s the difference. Racism happened on the pitch. Not from the terraces.

[James Stephen]

Yeah it is. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

We can agree to disagree 👍

[Jones28]

We can agree to disagree 👍

I think we’re going to have to. I can’t get in to the mindset of someone who equates Rangers with the KKK

[Smartie]

I think we’re going to have to. I can’t get in to the mindset of someone who equates Rangers with the KKK

They can quite easily be equated in simple terms of "companies I would choose not to work for if I could help it".

Rangers might be just the other side of the line. The KKK might be miles over the line. Either way, they're both over the line. That's not saying that Rangers = the KKK.

We're over that line to some people - see Andy Halliday, Kyle Lafferty. Us, the Vatican, probably the KKK. I'd expect that if push came to shove they'd both rather play for Hibs than join the priesthood or do some bookkeeping for the KKK. That's not to equate us with either of those institutions, although that's about as much getting into the heads of Halliday and Lafferty as I'm prepared to try and do.

[gbhibby]

I think we’re going to have to. I can’t get in to the mindset of someone who equates Rangers with the KKK
Have seen a few confederate flags displayed by Rangers fans.
Just saying like.

[hibsbollah]

Have seen a few confederate flags displayed by Rangers fans.
Just saying like.

The KKK also murdered thousands of men women and children, a campaign that caused the movement of 6 million black people from the South to the North of the USA. The Rangers are a football team that used to have a non catholic signing policy and still refuse to condemn the sectarian behaviour of their fans. I’m not sure there’s much else to say apart from a wee bit perspective is called for.

[Andy74]

The KKK also murdered thousands of men women and children, a campaign that caused the movement of 6 million black people from the South to the North of the USA. The Rangers are a football team that used to have a non catholic signing policy and still refuse to condemn the sectarian behaviour of their fans. I’m not sure there’s much else to say apart from a wee bit perspective is called for.

It’s more than just the club itself. You are representing those fans. You don’t have to look to far to find that the beliefs of a lot of those fans are not too far removed from the likes of those supporting the KKK. In terms of murder and displacement of human beings Rangers fans look fondly for example upon the glory days of the British Empire whose behaviour across the world would make the KKK blush.

[Keith_M]

Has anybody else noticed the discussion on this thread is going in ever decreasing circles?

[BoomtownHibees]

There’s a lot of “I’m no a racist........but” on this thread.

Quite surprised by a lot of the comments on here tbh

[hibsbollah]

It’s more than just the club itself. You are representing those fans. You don’t have to look to far to find that the beliefs of a lot of those fans are not too far removed from the likes of those supporting the KKK. In terms of murder and displacement of human beings Rangers fans look fondly for example upon the glory days of the British Empire whose behaviour across the world would make the KKK blush.

Partly true, (although the image of the Grand Wizard or other KKK members blushing is just daft) but you’re not really making any coherent point or argument in relation to the Kamara incident. It’s just a bit of an incoherent ramble.

[hibsbollah]

Have seen a few confederate flags displayed by Rangers fans.
Just saying like.

I believe Roscoe P Coltrane and Boss Hogg were also The Rangers fans.
Daisy Duke? 100% Hibby.

[Andy74]

Partly true, (although the image of the Grand Wizard or other KKK members blushing is just daft) but you’re not really making any coherent point or argument in relation to the Kamara incident. It’s just a bit of an incoherent ramble.

I’m quite evidently not talking just now about the Kamara incident, I’m responding to the discussion on whether I could ever work for Rangers in any capacity.

It has no bearing on the incident, which I think has roundly been said to be completely unacceptable if that’s what happened.

[blackpoolhibs]

There’s a lot of “I’m no a racist........but” on this thread.

Quite surprised by a lot of the comments on here tbh

really dont think there has been any of that on this thread.

[Pretty Boy]

I see Slavia fans have unveiled a banner with the lovely message: 'Kamara - Just a N****r.'

It's time for UEFA and national governing bodies to stop paying lip service to tackling all forms of bigotry and actually do something about it. Paltry fines and token gestures aren't the answer and never have been.

Points deductions, expulsion from competitions and full stadium closures for prolonged periods would sort things out quicker than €15000 fines and closing a stand or stadium for 1 or 2 games.

[BoomtownHibees]

really dont think there has been any of that on this thread.

You must have missed a few posts then. Maybe not being as direct as my wording however, for some posters, there always needs to be a bit of added narrative. Surely this incident can be condemned without the need to point out what Rangers are like as a club or what their supporters are like?

[CropleyWasGod]

I believe Roscoe P Coltrane and Boss Hogg were also The Rangers fans.
Daisy Duke? 100% Hibby.

Yeah, but The General Lee.... 🙄

[blackpoolhibs]

You must have missed a few posts then. Maybe not being as direct as my wording however, for some posters, there always needs to be a bit of added narrative. Surely this incident can be condemned without the need to point out what Rangers are like as a club or what their supporters are like?

I think it more the hypocrisy that's being pointed out, it stinks the place out in my opinion. Everyone to a man thinks what happened is wrong, it is the statement from them that i personally find laughable.

[Andy74]

You must have missed a few posts then. Maybe not being as direct as my wording however, for some posters, there always needs to be a bit of added narrative. Surely this incident can be condemned without the need to point out what Rangers are like as a club or what their supporters are like?

No, what you said was completely wrong. The discussion has gone on some tangents about the hypocrisy piece of the fans and the club but that does not come close to what you were suggesting.

[BoomtownHibees]

No, what you said was completely wrong

I don’t believe it to be wrong

[Andy74]

I don’t believe it to be wrong

It is.

You said there’s a lot of ‘I’m not a racist..but’ type comments. If there’s a lot you can highlight some?

What you are suggesting is that you are seeing comments that are actually racist or from people who are racist, isn’t it?

[superfurryhibby]

There’s a lot of “I’m no a racist........but” on this thread.

Quite surprised by a lot of the comments on here tbh

Tbf, you’re making things up. Probably the daftest post on this thread so far. :confused:

[DH1875]

I see Slavia fans have unveiled a banner with the lovely message: 'Kamara - Just a N****r.'

It's time for UEFA and national governing bodies to stop paying lip service to tackling all forms of bigotry and actually do something about it. Paltry fines and token gestures aren't the answer and never have been.

Points deductions, expulsion from competitions and full stadium closures for prolonged periods would sort things out quicker than €15000 fines and closing a stand or stadium for 1 or 2 games.

Also a video floating around connected to their fans in which rangers players have monkeys heads imposed. Mental :confused:

[BoomtownHibees]

Tbf, you’re making things up. Probably the daftest post on this thread so far. :confused:

You think mine is the daftest post? Wow

[BoomtownHibees]

It is.

You said there’s a lot of ‘I’m not a racist..but’ type comments. If there’s a lot you can highlight some?

What you are suggesting is that you are seeing comments that are actually racist or from people who are racist, isn’t it?

Open your eyes. Read the thread. There is a lot of “yeah its maybe wrong but Rangers are worse” type posts.

[DH1875]

Not sure if covered in thread but see that Dundee Utd and Motherwell didn't take the knee today in support of Kamara and that Celtic tweeted #old firm united in a tweet showing their support.

[Pretty Boy]

To add to my earlier post about the Kamara banner I've also seen a picture of graffiti in Bo'ness reading 'Catholics will be shot. K.A.T'.

I would argue that adds some weight to the view that you can condemn the racist abuse of Kamara, and indeed all racism, whilst still recognising the inherent hypocrisy of Rangers as a club and a fanbase. If the club put out as strongly worded a statement about sectarianism as they have about racism their attempts to tackle that problem might be taken more seriously. The 'anyone, everyone' message is box ticking at it's most obvious and worst.

It's an issue deeper than Rangers of course. It's a societal issue in Scotland that certain types of prejudice are part of our national psyche and something to be joked about rather than taken seriously. Too many people seem to truly believe the 'we're all Jock Tamson's bairns' myth. That applies whether we are discussing racism, xenophobia or sectarianism. It's Hallmark bollocks.

[hibsbollah]

It is.

You said there’s a lot of ‘I’m not a racist..but’ type comments. If there’s a lot you can highlight some?

What you are suggesting is that you are seeing comments that are actually racist or from people who are racist, isn’t it?

Your last sentence is putting words in his mouth, straw man nonsense, pathetic from you.

In relation to the wider question, there are least five or six posts on this thread where the poster has said ‘It’s unacceptable to be racist, but the Huns are sectarian’, or words to that effect. So he’s spot on.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Well this thread has become something of a mess, sadly.

[superfurryhibby]

[QUOTE=BoomtownHibeys;6502038]Open your eyes. Read the thread. There is a lot of “yeah its maybe wrong but Rangers are worse” type posts.[/QUOTE

There isn’t, you’re making things up.

[erin go bragh]

I think they do. I don’t see Rangers as a bigoted club any more .. they need to do more to address their fans sure - not sure they will ..but their working environment there won’t be bigoted . That’s the difference. Racism happened on the pitch. Not from the terraces.

Rangers players yes but their fans are still as bigoted as ever .

[BoomtownHibees]

There isn’t, you’re making things up.

That’s it. You’re right, I’m wrong. There is no post on this thread that claims any sense of whataboutery whatsoever

[blackpoolhibs]

That’s it. You’re right, I’m wrong. There is no post on this thread that claims any sense of whataboutery whatsoever

Why dont you quote all these posts?

[BoomtownHibees]

Why dont you quote all these posts?

Why don’t you read them?

[blackpoolhibs]

Why don’t you read them?


I have, if you can just point them out so i can agree with you please.

[Keith_M]

Well this thread has become something of a mess, sadly.


I think that happened a while back, TBH.

:rolleyes:

[BoomtownHibees]

I have, if you can just point them out so i can agree with you please.

If you’ve read them then there’s no need for them to be pointed out

[blackpoolhibs]

If you’ve read them then there’s no need for them to be pointed out

I dont see any, i was just wondering which ones you thought were whataboutery.

[hibbysam]

I think that happened a while back, TBH.

:rolleyes:

Was always going to happen based on the subject and the team involved.

[Andy74]

That’s it. You’re right, I’m wrong. There is no post on this thread that claims any sense of whataboutery whatsoever

That’s a quite different thing to what you were suggesting initially.

There probably is a fair bit of that going on but I think everyone has been very clear that racism is wrong and needs heavily punished when it happens.

The fact that Rangers and their fans have a lot of their own issues to resolve is a relevant tangent though.

[BoomtownHibees]

I dont see any, i was just wondering which ones you thought were whataboutery.

Ok, I will play your game. All from the first page of this thread and every one I would describe as whataboutery:

“I know it's probably not the time to be making petty digs but everything they do reeks of hypocrisy when they talk about discrimination”

“Other side of the coin is 50,000 other pricks singing sectarian (racist as anti catholic/Southern Irish) get away with it every week in a normal season”

“Deflection again. Cant take losing. Detestible institution”

“It is ironic from a team whose fans do nothing but sing about religious bigotry and hatred of all sorts”

If you don’t agree with me then fair enough, do away. However I stand by my original comments

[superfurryhibby]

I dont see any, i was just wondering which ones you thought were whataboutery.

He can’t because there aren’t any.

It was a bizarre comment, he needs to actually read rather than just assume things.

[BoomtownHibees]

He can’t because there aren’t any.

It was a bizarre comment, he needs to actually read rather than just assume things.

As above. Thanks

[Pretty Boy]

That’s it. You’re right, I’m wrong. There is no post on this thread that claims any sense of whataboutery whatsoever

I can't speak for others but I think there is a fair discussion to be had that doesn't stray into whataboutery.

The racist abuse of Kamara was abhorent
Any right minded person should back him and Rangers in their attempts to challenge it.
There is a notable difference in how Rangers have reacted to this and how they react to widespread sectarian abuse by their own, including the abuse of at least 4 Hibs managers in my lifetime.

Of course there is an argument that now isn't the time to make that last point but when some Rangers fans indulge in the type of behaviour I have posted above in the same week as the Kamara incident then they make it difficult not to.

I wonder if any prejudices are truly stand alone? Does the homophobe support trans rights? Does someone who sprays anti Catholic grafitti on a wall deplore Islamaphobia? Does the racist stand up against anti semitism? I think Rangers would be in a position to send a stronger message if they stopped indulging if not condoning the prejudices of their own fans.

In saying the above I still support Rangers in challenging the racist abuse of one of their players, I would support them being reinstated into Europe in place of Slavia and I support Hibs showing solidarity with Kamara and standing against racism as they did on social media today.

[blackpoolhibs]

Ok, I will play your game. All from the first page of this thread and every one I would describe as whataboutery:

“I know it's probably not the time to be making petty digs but everything they do reeks of hypocrisy when they talk about discrimination”

“Other side of the coin is 50,000 other pricks singing sectarian (racist as anti catholic/Southern Irish) get away with it every week in a normal season”

“Deflection again. Cant take losing. Detestible institution”

“It is ironic from a team whose fans do nothing but sing about religious bigotry and hatred of all sorts”

If you don’t agree with me then fair enough, do away. However I stand by my original comments

I was talking about the posts on here by its members, none of which i would say was whataboutery?

[BoomtownHibees]

I was talking about the posts on here by its members, none of which i would say was whataboutery?

I’m not sure what you mean. Every one of these quoted remarks are from this thread. I would class every one of them as whataboutery

[BoomtownHibees]

I can't speak for others but I think there is a fair discussion to be had.

There probably is tbh. I just feel like there’s some on here who’s judgement of what has happened to Kamara to be clouded because of the club he plays for. If you look at the issue in isolation, it’s dreadful, regardless of what colour strip he has on, and I think that’s what’s missing when some are raising what are probably valid points.

[blackpoolhibs]

I’m not sure what you mean. Every one of these quoted remarks are from this thread. I would class every one of them as whataboutery

Misread your post, did not realise you had quoted some posts.

All you have posted there is people highlighting that clubs hypocrisy?

[hibbysam]

Misread your post, did not realise you had quoted some posts.

All you have posted there is people highlighting that clubs hypocrisy?

The issue is nothing to do with the club though and everything to do with Kamara being racially abused. They are two completely separate issues and should be tackled as such. I doubt anyone would deny the issues that are raised, but it’s not the subject to be raising them on as all it does is dilutes Kamara’s claims which we shouldn’t be doing.

[BoomtownHibees]

Misread your post, did not realise you had quoted some posts.

All you have posted there is people highlighting that clubs hypocrisy?

But what happened is nothing to do with the club. The issue is what has happened to Kamara as a person. Trying to compare it to how Rangers are as a club is whataboutery in my opinion.

[blackpoolhibs]

The issue is nothing to do with the club though and everything to do with Kamara being racially abused. They are two completely separate issues and should be tackled as such. I doubt anyone would deny the issues that are raised, but it’s not the subject to be raising them on as all it does is dilutes Kamara’s claims which we shouldn’t be doing.
The club statement joins the two together in my opinion, with their blatant lies.

[hibsbollah]

Misread your post, did not realise you had quoted some posts.

All you have posted there is people highlighting that clubs hypocrisy?

The line between that and whataboutery is a narrow one, depends if you agree with the point being made. That’s the joy of internet scraps.

[blackpoolhibs]

The line between that and whataboutery is a narrow one, depends if you agree with the point being made. That’s the joy of internet scraps.
:greengrin

[hibbysam]

The club statement joins the two together in my opinion, with their blatant lies.

What lies if you don’t mind me asking? I read it and can’t see anything in their statement which was in any way controversial.

[gbhibby]

Bringing it back to original issue. UEFA need to look at the sanctions they impose for racist behaviour. They will say that they will ban a player for ten games fine clubs or close grounds. A sanction such as a ban for the club concerned for a year from UEFA competitions would be more appropriate. The Kamara incident will boil down to one person's word against anothers

[blackpoolhibs]

What lies if you don’t mind me asking? I read it and can’t see anything in their statement which was in any way controversial.

“The racist abuse suffered by Glen Kamara will not be tolerated by Rangers (https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/rangers/). As a club, we stand resolutely behind Glen as we support him and his teammates.“We stand behind each and every one of our players. Regardless of race, religion, colour or creed -if you wear the famous blue of Rangers FC, you are one of our own. Everyone, Anyone.

[hibbysam]

“The racist abuse suffered by Glen Kamara will not be tolerated by Rangers (https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/rangers/). As a club, we stand resolutely behind Glen as we support him and his teammates.“We stand behind each and every one of our players. Regardless of race, religion, colour or creed -if you wear the famous blue of Rangers FC, you are one of our own. Everyone, Anyone.


Are you implying that the club don’t stand behind certain players? Considering they have catholics in their side, black players in their side, I’d say the club stands behind them. There is a huge gulf between their fans beliefs and their club ethos these days.

[jeffers]

Are you implying that the club don’t stand behind certain players? Considering they have catholics in their side, black players in their side, I’d say the club stands behind them. There is a huge gulf between their fans beliefs and their club ethos these days.

Yet only 3 years ago they brought out an Orange change kit.

[hibsbollah]

Bringing it back to original issue. UEFA need to look at the sanctions they impose for racist behaviour. They will say that they will ban a player for ten games fine clubs or close grounds. A sanction such as a ban for the club concerned for a year from UEFA competitions would be more appropriate. The Kamara incident will boil down to one person's word against anothers

I think the banner that was unveiled today in Prague is basically a big GTF to everyone. When you think that whole stands get closed across Europe by UEFA for pyrotechnics, or breaches of sponsorship contracts, it’s ‘beyond belief’ that they seem to mysteriously lose their balls in cases like this.

[hibbysam]

Yet only 3 years ago they brought out an Orange change kit.

And?

[blackpoolhibs]

Are you implying that the club don’t stand behind certain players? Considering they have catholics in their side, black players in their side, I’d say the club stands behind them. There is a huge gulf between their fans beliefs and their club ethos these days.

When have you ever heard a statement from them condemning bigoted singing against managers like Stubbs or Lennon like they released about this?

There is that much of a gulf between fans and club over this subject, they dont release statements when catholics are abused, even though the do sign catholics now, is that standing by their catholic players?

They cant be seen to be supporting the tarriers now can they?

It's hypocrisy by that club but not surprising at all.

[hibbysam]

When have you ever heard a statement from them condemning bigoted singing against managers like Stubbs or Lennon like they released about this?

There is that much of a gulf between fans and club over this subject, they dont release statements when catholics are abused, even though the do sign catholics now, is that standing by their catholic players?

They cant be seen to be supporting the tarriers now can they?

It's hypocrisy by that club but not surprising at all.

So they haven’t lied then. They stand behind their own players like they said. Whether they are hypocrites or not, this isn’t the subject to be raising it on. If you have an issue with Rangers as a club or their fans or their players, raise it independently. The whole world should stand behind any player who has been racially abused with no ifs buts or maybes added onto the end of it.

[Keith_M]

I think the banner that was unveiled today in Prague is basically a big GTF to everyone. When you think that whole stands get closed across Europe by UEFA for pyrotechnics, or breaches of sponsorship contracts, it’s ‘beyond belief’ that they seem to mysteriously lose their balls in cases like this.


This is a difficult one, as the banner wasn't displayed inside the ground, at a match.

I'm not sure they can fine the club for the behaviour of fans away from the stadium.

[jeffers]

And?

C’mon. We all know what that was all about and it was heehaw to do with a celebration of former Dutch players.

[hibsbollah]

This is a difficult one, as the banner wasn't displayed inside the ground, at a match.

I'm not sure they can fine the club for the behaviour of fans away from the stadium.

Was it outside the ground? Well thats a good point then :greengrin
I would find a way to exclude the ****ers on principle anyway. It’s UEFAs own tournament, just say ‘it’s my baw’.

[Keith_M]

Was it outside the ground? Well thats a good point then :greengrin
I would find a way to exclude the ****ers on principle anyway. It’s UEFAs own tournament, just say ‘it’s my baw’.


I'm with you on that one.

:greengrin

[neil7908]

But what happened is nothing to do with the club. The issue is what has happened to Kamara as a person. Trying to compare it to how Rangers are as a club is whataboutery in my opinion.

I'm one of the posts you quoted. I was also very clear that I stand 100% behind the player and against any racism. But as others have said, I stand against all forms of discrimination and having had to listen to thousands of Sevco fans hurl sectarian abuse at me, I'm not comfortable with allowing them to take the high ground on issues of discrimination.

If you want to call it whataboutery then crack on. But I'll keep calling out hypocrisy. If we don't then sectarianism isn't going anywhere.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The issue is nothing to do with the club though and everything to do with Kamara being racially abused. They are two completely separate issues and should be tackled as such. I doubt anyone would deny the issues that are raised, but it’s not the subject to be raising them on as all it does is dilutes Kamara’s claims which we shouldn’t be doing.

Well, I think (and certainly hope) that everyone on this thread and within the Hibs support are disgusted by the remark made at Kamara, and that nobody is mitigating the behaviour of the Slavia Prague player because Kamara plays for Rangers. It was dehumanising for Kamara, and the shirt he wears isn't relevant. The selective outrage of Rangers as a club, is, in my opinion, also relevant when we have any discussion about prejudice and bigotry. The club is rightly supporting Kamara through this episode, but, it must be said, the club is more ambivalent and less forthright when it comes to prejudice and bigotry within their own support - the people they depend upon for income. I don't see that as 'whataboutery', nor do I think it detracts from Kamara's experience. On the contrary, I think it's part of the same issue: a problem of intolerance that needs to be addressed. The same club which is rightly taking up Kamara's cause should be just as forthright when people associated with their club are the perpetrators rather than the victims, but that doesn't always seem to be so. I want to see Rangers, now they as a club are fully engaged with the battle against prejudice, be just as committed when the prejudice comes from within their own ranks. They should be just as unequivocal at all times in the future. Hardly an unreasonable request.

I don't think there is much disagreement on this forum in relation to the rejection of intolerance, and perhaps it's the way views have been put across which has created issues.

[hibsbollah]

I'm with you on that one.

:greengrin

There’s a crossover with the taking a knee discussion here, and Zahas decision to stop doing so. Unless you’re going to actually do something about the problem, tokenism like taking the knee and having ‘No to Racism’ plastered around the pitch and on the shirts is totally empty and meaningless.

I’m convinced that until MasterCard Adidas McDonalds start to vote with their feet, nothing will happen about racism in football. Look how fast everyone moved to change Washington Football Teams old name when the big sponsors started to walk away.

[blackpoolhibs]

So they haven’t lied then. They stand behind their own players like they said. Whether they are hypocrites or not, this isn’t the subject to be raising it on. If you have an issue with Rangers as a club or their fans or their players, raise it independently. The whole world should stand behind any player who has been racially abused with no ifs buts or maybes added onto the end of it.
Of course this is the subject to raise it on, it's because of their hypocrisy on the matter that I'm talking about it.

[hibbysam]

Of course this is the subject to raise it on, it's because of their hypocrisy on the matter that I'm talking about it.

So the clubs hypocrisy is the reason that you are talking about Kamara’s racist abuse? Surely not.

[basehibby]

You must have missed a few posts then. Maybe not being as direct as my wording however, for some posters, there always needs to be a bit of added narrative. Surely this incident can be condemned without the need to point out what Rangers are like as a club or what their supporters are like?

I made a post earlier along the lines of not believing a word Rangers came out with - with an ironic reference to their pathetic and insulting attempts at deflection following their defeat to Hibs in the 2016 Cup Final.

Although I think that was a pertinent point (and the racist abuse IS overshadowing what looked like a violent assault ON the pitch of Roofe on the Slavia Prague keeper), having looked at the story closer and listened to the interviews I'm pretty convinced that this is substantially different. You can see the fury of Kamara in the moment and, unlike the nonsense spouted by his club post 2016 cup final, he sounds thoroughly convincing and footage as well as at least one of his teammates seems to back up his version of events.

The fact that Kamara has reportedly "taken the law into his own hands" by battering the culprit in the tunnel is going to keep this incident in the spotlight and I can see this story running and running with perhaps a far bigger impact as a result. Will it lead to a change in attitude of the sectarian morons in the stands of Ibrox? Somehow I doubt it.

NB - on another note, I've tried in vain to find footage of the actual incidents - "not allowed in your area" - WTF?!? This is a news story surely and not just a sports highlight!

[blackpoolhibs]

So the clubs hypocrisy is the reason that you are talking about Kamara’s racist abuse? Surely not.

Are you deliberately being daft?

[Radium]

Bringing it back to original issue. UEFA need to look at the sanctions they impose for racist behaviour. They will say that they will ban a player for ten games fine clubs or close grounds. A sanction such as a ban for the club concerned for a year from UEFA competitions would be more appropriate. The Kamara incident will boil down to one person's word against anothers

From the statement, the monkey comment was overheard by another player.

Makes the situation around the player clear and I agree that the club should be punished. In this case I would award the tie to Rangers but we all know that UEFA won’t take strong action against the club.


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[hibbysam]

Are you deliberately being daft?

‘It’s because of their hypocrisy on the matter that I’m talking about it’... the matter being Kamara being racially abused and you feel the club are hypocrites.

[gbhibby]

From the statement, the monkey comment was overheard by another player.

Makes the situation around the player clear and I agree that the club should be punished. In this case I would award the tie to Rangers but we all know that UEFA won’t take strong action against the club.


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I would not award the tie to Rangers as the actions did not have a material effect on the result. I wasn't aware that another player heard the comment. A £500000 fine and a years ban from UEFA competitions would be a good start. After all you get a £50000 fine for showing an advert on the band of your underpants.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

And?

Rangers fan argument

“It’s only a colour, no implication about it, anyway you play in green”

I’ve had a puddle drinker say this to me when questioning their orange shirt

Like they still play a flute version of Follow Follow over the tannoy and wave Union flags on the pitch

“Harmless” on the surface but anyone not born yesterday knows what it means

[hibbysam]

Rangers fan argument

“It’s only a colour, no implication about it, anyway you play in green”

I’ve had a puddle drinker say this to me when questioning their orange shirt

Like they still play a flute version of Follow Follow over the tannoy and wave Union flags on the pitch

“Harmless” on the surface but anyone not born yesterday knows what it means

You could make an argument for a lot of things, but not sure where Union flags come into it in an argument about Sectarianism?

[basehibby]

I would not award the tie to Rangers as the actions did not have a material effect on the result. I wasn't aware that another player heard the comment. A £500000 fine and a years ban from UEFA competitions would be a good start. After all you get a £50000 fine for showing an advert on the band of your underpants.

After a lot of scraping about on the internet I finally found this clip which sheds some light on the actual alleged racist incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5MhQVCRgNo

IF I'm not mistaken you can actually hear the offending remark under the commentary - and it totally backs Kamara up. You can also see that Kamara's teammate hears it and is also incensed and reports it in real time to the referee. If I'm right about what I think I hear then an audio tech should be able to isolate it and the culprit can then be hung drawn and quartered (figuratively speaking of course) by UEFA.

[660]

Weird how many people on here seem to have turned into hun apologists this season

[BoomtownHibees]

Weird how many people on here seem to have turned into hun apologists this season

***** comment

I despise the Huns as much as the next guy however I’m happy to differentiate my hatred for them as a club than what Kamara faced the other night

[CentreLine]

Weird how many people on here seem to have turned into hun apologists this season

I’m not sure that your comment is intended to sound like it is condoning racism but you might look at it differently in the morning🤔

[Keith_M]

Sacked Rangers kitman accuses club employees of making racist comments towards him


'A Rangers spokesman said: “We are unable to comment on this because it is an ongoing legal matter.” '

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sacked-rangers-kitman-claims-racism-23766356

[Hakim Sar]

I back Glen Kamara and Rangers in this fully.

Racism can gtf out of football.

[Bostonhibby]

Sacked Rangers kitman accuses club employees of making racist comments towards him


'A Rangers spokesman said: “We are unable to comment on this because it is an ongoing legal matter.” '

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sacked-rangers-kitman-claims-racism-23766356If there's anything in this, hopefully there will eventually be a statement from the players supporting the guy as well as from the club.



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[Barney McGrew]

Sacked Rangers kitman accuses club employees of making racist comments towards him


'A Rangers spokesman said: “We are unable to comment on this because it is an ongoing legal matter.” '

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sacked-rangers-kitman-claims-racism-23766356

You can guarantee that will be settled out of court with a gag order on both sides preventing further comment.

[blackpoolhibs]

You can bet your last penny, Jimmy Bell was involved.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Sacked Rangers kitman accuses club employees of making racist comments towards him


'A Rangers spokesman said: “We are unable to comment on this because it is an ongoing legal matter.” '

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sacked-rangers-kitman-claims-racism-23766356

Always offended, never ashamed

[Pretty Boy]

You can bet your last penny, Jimmy Bell was involved.

They are open to everyone and anyone. I can't see any caveat that excludes bigoted bawbags like Bell.

[where'stheslope]

Reported in today's paper that their goalkeeper admitted the player called him a "f***ing m*****y"!!!
Was seemingly heard on an audio?

[CropleyWasGod]

Reported in today's paper that their goalkeeper admitted the player called him a "f***ing m*****y"!!!
Was seemingly heard on an audio?

Would have to be an extremely sensitive audio device, no?

[hibbysam]

Would have to be an extremely sensitive audio device, no?

I think it was a voice recorded message sent in a WhatsApp (if it’s the same thing I heard).

[CropleyWasGod]

I think it was a voice recorded message sent in a WhatsApp (if it’s the same thing I heard).

You mean what the goalkeeper said? Or Kudela?

[hibbysam]

You mean what the goalkeeper said? Or Kudela?

I think the keeper put a voice recorded message in a WhatsApp group confirming what Kudela said.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think the keeper put a voice recorded message in a WhatsApp group confirming what Kudela said.

OK, ta.

Which, of course, begs the question... how would he know? (Unless Kudela told him.)

[WhileTheChief..]

Sacked Rangers kitman accuses club employees of making racist comments towards him


'A Rangers spokesman said: “We are unable to comment on this because it is an ongoing legal matter.” '

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sacked-rangers-kitman-claims-racism-23766356


Thieving git gets caught then shouts racism to try and get out of the crap he found himself in.

Can’t blame Rangers for this.

[Pretty Boy]

Thieving git gets caught then shouts racism to try and get out of the crap he found himself in.

Can’t blame Rangers for this.

Unless of course the 'thieving git' was actually racially abused.

[WhileTheChief..]

He’s worked for Rangers for 13 years and not once had an issue with racial abuse.

Then he gets sacked for theft and is abused racially at the same time.

Convenient.

[CropleyWasGod]

Unless of course the 'thieving git' was actually racially abused.

And perhaps he wasn't even a "thieving git" :greengrin

[WhileTheChief..]

See if it was Hibs instead of Rangers you’d be saying something different :greengrin:greengrin

[Pretty Boy]

He’s worked for Rangers for 13 years and not once had an issue with racial abuse.

Then he gets sacked for theft and is abused racially at the same time.

Convenient.

Or he ignored the racial abuse for years because he needed the job. I've certainly encountered more of that in workplaces than I have false accusations of racism.

I'm just making up a hypothetical scenario in my head of course but then so are you. Neither of us really know but I'm generally prepared to take any allegation of racism seriously until it can be disproven.

[hibbysam]

He’s worked for Rangers for 13 years and not once had an issue with racial abuse.

Then he gets sacked for theft and is abused racially at the same time.

Convenient.

He mentions in it that he’s raised it numerous times and been pushed away. It goes back to what was said previously, I doubt many other clubs would be giving £40k+ a year for a kitman so money obviously played a factor in him staying. It’s easy to say he should just leave and no amount of money would keep you, but when your getting a fairly decent wedge then it’s a hard choice.

[WhileTheChief..]

The guys been caught red handed and is trying to wriggle out of it. You guys can dress it up any way you like.

[Rumble de Thump]

The guys been caught red handed and is trying to wriggle out of it. You guys can dress it up any way you like.

He said he had taken packages home because they were addressed to him personally. He then returned the items. Was that not true?

[CropleyWasGod]

The guys been caught red handed and is trying to wriggle out of it. You guys can dress it up any way you like.

Isn't that the point of the Employment Tribunal? An independent body to establish the facts of the case.

[DH1875]

Rangers have said they won't be taking the knee today. Interesting to see if celtic go with them, especially after their tweets yesterday showing their support for Kamara. Mental that even Celtic are backing them and we've got folk on here comparing them to the KKK.
As for players playing for itty clubs, players do it all the time. Slavia have black players who play for them. Take Kamara out of it, their fans are still flying banners with the N word and imposing monkey heads onto black peoples bodies online. Have their black players came out and condemned that (genuine question, I don't know) or are they just gonna continue playing for the club like nothing happened.

[WhileTheChief..]

He only claims racial abuse after he’s been sacked!!

You don’t find that just slightly convenient? I mean, c’mon, if this was Hibs, would you really be saying wait for the tribunal?

You’d all be rallying round the club saying exactly what I’m saying :na na:

[WhileTheChief..]

He said he had taken packages home because they were addressed to him personally. He then returned the items. Was that not true?

I don’t think returning stolen goods is a solid defence for theft in the first place. I’m not a lawyer though so maybe you’re right!!

Damn, you caught me, here, take the BMW back, soz ‘about that!!

[CropleyWasGod]

He only claims racial abuse after he’s been sacked!!

You don’t find that just slightly convenient? I mean, c’mon, if this was Hibs, would you really be saying wait for the tribunal?

You’d all be rallying round the club saying exactly what I’m saying :na na:

I would.

[Rumble de Thump]

I don’t think returning stolen goods is a solid defence for theft in the first place. I’m not a lawyer though so maybe you’re right!!

Damn, you caught me, here, take the BMW back, soz ‘about that!!

How can you steal a package that's addressed to you?

[WhileTheChief..]

How can you steal a package that's addressed to you?

Aye ok.

[ekhibee]

Totally disagree, particularly the bit highlighted in bold.

An analogy would be, a misogynist (lets call them A) accusing another misogynist (B) of misogyny. B may well be guilty, but A is guilty as well. Therefore, they are not 2 separate issues as you suggest.

In that case I'm confused, if you're analogy was correct, Kamara would be guilty of making racist remarks and therefore is as guilty as the guy that racially abused him. The thread was relating to whether Kamara was racially abused, not the sectarian behaviour of Rangers, which IS a seperate issue IMO. Of course I agree regarding Ranger's bigotry/sectarian behaviour but that's surely not what the original thread was about?

[Colr]

Slavia Prague's Ondrej Kudela was beaten up at Ibrox after tonight's Europa League game against Rangers, Czech media say.

The Czech club has reported the incident to the police.

https://twitter.com/hosekj/status/1372683573883457536?s=19

Is he Catholic?

[Wakeyhibee]

How can you steal a package that's addressed to you?

When you ordered it on their behalf you asked for it to be marked for yourself?

[Keith_M]

Thieving git gets caught then shouts racism to try and get out of the crap he found himself in.

Can’t blame Rangers for this.


Perhaps, but you can't just discard accusations of racism without investigating it first.

[DH1875]

Rangers and Celtic standing standing together today. Not holding my breath but maybe some good could come out of it.

[Keith_M]

Rangers and Celtic standing standing together today. Not holding my breath but maybe some good could come out of it.


Presumably all watching Slavia Prague players will be suitably impressed and change their ways.

[Hibs90]

The irony of Kris Boyd saying 'we don't see racism up here that often' meanwhile their fans have been spewing their racist bile for years and years and not a word has been said.


The ****ing brass neck of that idiot.

[DH1875]

Presumably all watching Slavia Prague players will be suitably impressed and change their ways.
Might make their black players think twice.

[lord bunberry]

How can you steal a package that's addressed to you?
It couldn’t have been addressed to him if it was delivered to rangers. It must’ve been delivered with his name on it.

[hibbysam]

He only claims racial abuse after he’s been sacked!!

You don’t find that just slightly convenient? I mean, c’mon, if this was Hibs, would you really be saying wait for the tribunal?

You’d all be rallying round the club saying exactly what I’m saying :na na:

Even though he claims he reported it numerous times or are we just ignoring that?

[Rumble de Thump]

It couldn’t have been addressed to him if it was delivered to rangers. It must’ve been delivered with his name on it.

If it had his name on it then it was addressed to him.

[WeeRussell]

Rangers have said they won't be taking the knee today. Interesting to see if celtic go with them, especially after their tweets yesterday showing their support for Kamara. Mental that even Celtic are backing them and we've got folk on here comparing them to the KKK.
As for players playing for itty clubs, players do it all the time. Slavia have black players who play for them. Take Kamara out of it, their fans are still flying banners with the N word and imposing monkey heads onto black peoples bodies online. Have their black players came out and condemned that (genuine question, I don't know) or are they just gonna continue playing for the club like nothing happened.

That would be mental.. but has anyone on here actually even hinted that they wouldn’t back any player, rangers or otherwise, if they had been racially abused?

[WeeRussell]

Thieving git gets caught then shouts racism to try and get out of the crap he found himself in.

Can’t blame Rangers for this.

Have you informed whoever is involved in the ongoing legal investigation that you have all the answers and the guy is simply a lying thieving git who has never experienced racist abuse?

[Bostonhibby]

See if it was Hibs instead of Rangers you’d be saying something different :greengrin:greengrin[emoji16]I wouldn't even be calling them rangers.

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[Caversham Green]

Thieving git gets caught then shouts racism to try and get out of the crap he found himself in.

Can’t blame Rangers for this.

You've already decided he's a "thieving git" shouting racism before the case has been heard by a tribunal. That's pretty much a literal definition of prejudice. His claim is that he took the packages home in error and that he was previously subjected to racial abuse but didn't want to lose his well-paid job - you've decided to dismiss that possibility.

Is it because he's Albanian? or an asylum seeker?

To expose my own prejudice, the presence of a certain individual in his working environment makes his claim of racial abuse quite credible.

[Bostonhibby]

Or he ignored the racial abuse for years because he needed the job. I've certainly encountered more of that in workplaces than I have false accusations of racism.

I'm just making up a hypothetical scenario in my head of course but then so are you. Neither of us really know but I'm generally prepared to take any allegation of racism seriously until it can be disproven.Yep, spot on, the poor sods who do all the work in the local fields live with it regularly but they need the money and probably have more self worth than many of their abusers.

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[Bostonhibby]

The irony of Kris Boyd saying 'we don't see racism up here that often' meanwhile their fans have been spewing their racist bile for years and years and not a word has been said.


The ****ing brass neck of that idiot.Boyd, two short planks favourite quiz opponent.

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[WhileTheChief..]

You've already decided he's a "thieving git" shouting racism before the case has been heard by a tribunal. That's pretty much a literal definition of prejudice. His claim is that he took the packages home in error and that he was previously subjected to racial abuse but didn't want to lose his well-paid job - you've decided to dismiss that possibility.

Is it because he's Albanian? or an asylum seeker?

To expose my own prejudice, the presence of a certain individual in his working environment makes his claim of racial abuse quite credible.

Ok, let’s assume you’re right.

What does his claim of racial abuse have to do with the employment tribunal?

Presumably he’s been sacked for theft and the tribunal is about that? They’re not remotely related incidents.

Its not that he left because of racial abuse and is now taking his former employer to court.

Did he think of going to Anas Sanwar about the racial abuse when it happened or only after he’d been sacked? Again, for a total different reason.

Would Sanwar be involved if it wasn’t Rangers or the lead up to an election?

He’s at it, being fed a line from his lawyer.

[WhileTheChief..]

You've already decided he's a "thieving git" shouting racism before the case has been heard by a tribunal. That's pretty much a literal definition of prejudice. His claim is that he took the packages home in error and that he was previously subjected to racial abuse but didn't want to lose his well-paid job - you've decided to dismiss that possibility.

Is it because he's Albanian? or an asylum seeker?

To expose my own prejudice, the presence of a certain individual in his working environment makes his claim of racial abuse quite credible.

Hang on, are you suggesting Rangers sacked him because he’s Albanian or an asylum seeker despite him working there for umpteen years? Why would they do that now, right in the middle of a time when racism as at the front of everyone’s mind?

They just used the ‘theft’ as an excuse?

Why do you think Rangers sacked him?

[Keith_M]

Hang on, are you suggesting Rangers sacked him because he’s Albanian or an asylum seeker despite him working there for umpteen years? Why would they do that now, right in the middle of a time when racism as at the front of everyone’s mind?

They just used the ‘theft’ as an excuse?

Why do you think Rangers sacked him?



Or they sacked him because he was complaining about the racist abuse, who knows. But isn't it also possible that both things happened, the theft and the racist incidents?

The lawyer could indeed have been fishing for information on what his experience was like with his employer, and the guy has told him the truth about the 'racist' abuse.

Sometimes wrongdoings like this are uncovered in very unusual ways.

[WhileTheChief..]

So if both things happened there would be different issues to sort out.

If I get sacked for taking too many sickies I can’t say I should I get my job back ‘cause my boss made an untoward advance to me at the Xmas party.

[Caversham Green]

Ok, let’s assume you’re right.

What does his claim of racial abuse have to do with the employment tribunal?

Presumably he’s been sacked for theft and the tribunal is about that? They’re not remotely related incidents.

Its not that he left because of racial abuse and is now taking his former employer to court.

Did he think of going to Anas Sanwar about the racial abuse when it happened or only after he’d been sacked? Again, for a total different reason.

Would Sanwar be involved if it wasn’t Rangers or the lead up to an election?

He’s at it, being fed a line from his lawyer.

I'm not claiming to be right, I'm saying that he is making allegations that deserve to be listened to before anyone can decide whether he's a thieving git or not. You appear to have already decided on the basis of incomplete information. In other words, prejudice.

[Kaff]

The whole situation around taking the knee is getting very confusing.
The Scottish Rugby team are a bit disorganised and some do/some don't and there's criticism for those that don't.
Dundee Utd don't kneel in a show of solidarity FOR Kamara, that's an odd one.
Also today both Celtic and Rangers do the same, why not all take the knee as I thought that was the recognised way of showing support?
Wilfred Zaha doesn't take the knee while everyone else does at Palace and that's a show of protest, again I thought taking the knee was the protest?
I think it has brought the whole kneeling situation to an end and the need for a bit of clarity if we're to use it as a tool for educating younger people, mixed messages whether accidental or not won't help.

[WhileTheChief..]

I'm not claiming to be right, I'm saying that he is making allegations that deserve to be listened to before anyone can decide whether he's a thieving git or not. You appear to have already decided on the basis of incomplete information. In other words, prejudice.

Nice try. Just ignore the points I make and chuck your accusations about instead eh.

You never commented during OJs trial, or Clinton’s impeachment? Course not, you waited to hear the final verdict without offering any opinion.

.

[hibbysam]

The whole situation around taking the knee is getting very confusing.
The Scottish Rugby team are a bit disorganised and some do/some don't and there's criticism for those that don't.
Dundee Utd don't kneel in a show of solidarity FOR Kamara, that's an odd one.
Also today both Celtic and Rangers do the same, why not all take the knee as I thought that was the recognised way of showing support?
Wilfred Zaha doesn't take the knee while everyone else does at Palace and that's a show of protest, again I thought taking the knee was the protest?
I think it has brought the whole kneeling situation to an end and the need for a bit of clarity if we're to use it as a tool for educating younger people, mixed messages whether accidental or not won't help.

It’s got people talking about it again. That’s the point of it. Kneeling was spoken about at the start but never brought real change. It was done but no one spoke about it latterly. These clubs have got Scottish football speaking about it again.

[Kaff]

It’s got people talking about it again. That’s the point of it. Kneeling was spoken about at the start but never brought real change. It was done but no one spoke about it latterly. These clubs have got Scottish football speaking about it again.

I can accept that but really it's the Kamara situation that has got people talking of course.
I just think we need a clear procedure so there is no confusion.
Fwiw I do think the kneeling had gone a bit 'stale' but don't think it's the place of a white middle aged man to tell them that and to drop it, it's clarity I want so there's no inadvertent offense caused, like happened with the rugby in my view.
I hope in the Kamara case that there can be clear cut evidence uncovered so it is dealt with under no uncertainty but I can't see that happening and it will drag on.
However the conversation has been started vigorously so there could be some good come out of a poor situation, fingers crossed.

[Caversham Green]

Nice try. Just ignore the points I make and chuck your accusations about instead eh.

You never commented during OJs trial, or Clinton’s impeachment? Course not, you waited to hear the final verdict without offering any opinion.

.

I don't really remember commenting much on those two events before the final verdicts, but if I did I was guilty of prejudice too.

On the matter under discussion I don't know whether or not the guy is telling the truth - neither do you but you're adding arms and legs to the presumptions you've made based on incomplete information. The guy has given an explanation for his actions in the article but you've chosen to ignore that. I could speculate that the club wanted rid of him because he was starting to make noises about racial abuse but I'd be falling into the same trap as you. It feels worse than pointless to go into any more detail because you've already decided the man is guilty and nothing is likely to change your mind.

[hibbysam]

I can accept that but really it's the Kamara situation that has got people talking of course.
I just think we need a clear procedure so there is no confusion.
Fwiw I do think the kneeling had gone a bit 'stale' but don't think it's the place of a white middle aged man to tell them that and to drop it, it's clarity I want so there's no inadvertent offense caused, like happened with the rugby in my view.
I hope in the Kamara case that there can be clear cut evidence uncovered so it is dealt with under no uncertainty but I can't see that happening and it will drag on.
However the conversation has been started vigorously so there could be some good come out of a poor situation, fingers crossed.

Zaha, Tavernier, Goldson to name but few, they aren’t Middle Aged white men and they decided to take a change of stance. It doesn’t need a United stance, it needs people to do what they think is right to keep people talking and get action.

[Kaff]

Zaha, Tavernier, Goldson to name but few, they aren’t Middle Aged white men and they decided to take a change of stance. It doesn’t need a United stance, it needs people to do what they think is right to keep people talking and get action.

The point I'm trying to make is that for a white middle aged man trying to offer support and also inform their kids it is helpful if there's direction as to the best action to take.
2/3 weeks ago standing while others knelt was deemed offensive while now it's offered as a means of support. It is a difficult situation.
I'm saying that fully aware that living with racism is obviously the issue and worrying about kneeling or standing is a very minor point.
Again, hopefully the dialogue around this can bring about change