Elgin v Hibs

[Mr Grieves]

Still pretty convinced our squad is light by two or three players. If PH makes no more signings I think the thin-ness will speak for itself soon enough.

:agree: That's the first game I've seen this season and Defensively we look weak, but I don't believe our back 4 were the problem. There were a few occassions when Elgin strolled through our midfield without a challenge even being attempted, we need to strengthen there.

We could also do with being more clinical in front of goal, so a striker to challenge Doidge and Kamberi for a starting place is a must.

Positives were Newell was decent and Kamberi looks like he cares again.

[FilipinoHibs]

One of the interesting things over the last few years at the club is the polarising effect Lennon seems to have had amongst the support.

I loved his time here initially but was glad to see the back of him by the end. The born winner stuff and not settling for 4th place was all total nonsense though.

He was failing badly when he left and looking anything other than a born winner. In fact, he looked like a manager that couldn't handle the pressure of being at a club that doesn't have x10 the budget of their competitors.

Lennons 'ambition' at the club was ultimately hollow and worthless. By the end he was just a petulant child who started bullying the players as he couldn't get his own way.

Yes agree. Lennon's championship season was sore on the eyes. As to was first half of season in top league and the whole of the second season. His antics on and off the pitch are not missed.

[hibbie02]

I am glad they took Squirrel off as a precaution.

WTF was that tosser saying on commentary about how could Hibs find a way to fit Allan into the midfield??? I have no clue!

It was a comfortable win, but I hope Hecky knows his first eleven. We haven't seen it yet and that is my concern. I looked at the team tonight and said WTF! There is the makings of a team there, but surely we have to see it by now.

4-4-2 is not working. We need Allan, Mallan and Vela as starters. Ideally Squirrel and Horgan wide and a CF. I think GK is good and Lewie, any combination of CH and Gray/James at the back. However injuries will make a hell of a mess of our season. Mackie and Murray are going to break through this season

[Bishop Hibee]

Some on here need to chill. We played ok in a tricky tie and won. Not like Brazil in their pomp but the best teams I’ve seen in a Hibs shirt won nowt. Give Hecky time.

[007]

I think it’s unfair to judge as Hecky has admitted he’s been playing players to get 3 full games of match time under their belts. He’s managed that whilst gelling a lot of new players & combinations and winning our group (which I know was a must anyway)

Roll on the st Mirren game where our strongest team should play, injuries aside. I think we’ll see a strong performance and win

I agree. Whilst we could've got more convincing wins by putting out the strongest team and pretty much sticking with for all the matches, arguably Heckingbottom has achieved more by giving as much game time as possible to as many players as possible. By doing that he's not only continued to get the squad up to full match fitness, he's also generated healthy competition for starting places for the start of the league campaign.

We've qualified comfortably for the next round, we'll know by 5pm whether or not Heckingbottom's played an absolute blinder by getting us a seeded place.

I predict that against Newcastle he'll play what he considers his strongest 11 for at least 45 minutes, with a view to them being the starting 11 v St Mirren.

[Dalianwanda]

Enjoyed what i saw and exasperated by what i read. Hecky tryouts g things out and team close come by into gear...all good

[SHODAN]

We may not have achieved 12/12 in this group but we came as close as you can get.

Also, our much maligned in pre season defence conceded one goal in the opening game and that was it. That's almost five hours without conceding now.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The Arbroath game was my first look at the team this season and I thought we were pretty controlled without being spectacular and for the most part that's what we were tonight.

We do look like a team playing in 2nd gear though and its pretty obvious that we need to up our speed of play and sharpen up considerably in the final 3rd. Hibs had a lot of the ball in both games without scoring the amount of goals we could or should have from open play.

Of the new guys Vela looks the pick already … tonight was my first look at Doidge, he looks like he could have a burst of pace over 5 or 10 yards, but he didn't appear to me to be as physical as I thought he was going to be. Newell looks the sort of player who could divide opinion, he has quite a languid style which might not go down too well if we are doing badly. Jackson was good against Arbroath, but as others have said there's a bit of Daz MKII about him. As for James I'm none the wiser as to his merits or lack of them.

I would imagine Heck will pick a team for the Newcastle game that's pretty close to the one he'll start against St Mirren … The only game we've really played this season against a team out to attack us was Carlisle and we scored 4, but we also lost 3. It will be interesting to see how we get on against a team far higher in quality than anything we have faced so far, even if they are in pre season mode.

If we can find another couple of gears yippee things don't look too bad at all … if what we have seen so far is our limit or close to it then we still have quite a bit of work to do, including possibly finding another couple of players.

[we are hibs]

We may not have achieved 12/12 in this group but we came as close as you can get.

Also, our much maligned in pre season defence conceded one goal in the opening game and that was it. That's almost five hours without conceding now.


Sorry but the defence was all over the place last night and that was my only concern. McGregor and Jackson both guilty of charging out and leaving gaps. Mackie looked to tire for me later on in the game and the winger got in behind him a few times. Whittaker was Whittaker. But there's an argument that only one of the 4 defenders picked last night will be in our first choice back 4 once we have everyone fit so I'm not overly concerned but we haven't been steady during pre season at the back. Not by any means.

[Allant1981]

Played ok tonight, never really got out of second gear again but didnt have to, only slight negative I had from last night was not letting shaw get more minutes, if the manager was wanting to use these games to get players match fit then shaw will be behind others now, hopefully gets more game time against newcastle, Newell played well but think he would be more suited to playing in the middle of the park, seemed to come inside very often, all in all a good workout again for the players and now onto the next game

[Ricky Bobby]

I thought last nights performance showed game on game improvement. A far better tempo played from the start.
Also good to see Newell starting to look like the player we hoped he would be.
Defensively we still look a little like we are searching for the right line up, but that can only be expected withe the new signings and injuries we have.
Interesting read over on Kickback where our simple neighbours appear to think we were rotten last night. In some ways they should know given the dog meat they watch every week.
In reality I think everyone should be able to see that with a bit of time and possibly another signing or two, that this could be an exciting season.

[BoomtownHibees]

Sorry but the defence was all over the place last night and that was my only concern. McGregor and Jackson both guilty of charging out and leaving gaps. Mackie looked to tire for me later on in the game and the winger got in behind him a few times. Whittaker was Whittaker. But there's an argument that only one of the 4 defenders picked last night will be in our first choice back 4 once we have everyone fit so I'm not overly concerned but we haven't been steady during pre season at the back. Not by any means.

3 clean sheets in a row tells me the defence are doing alright however that might also be down to the quality of opposition

[Brightside]

3 clean sheets in a row tells me the defence are doing alright however that might also be down to the quality of opposition

2 RCBs cause problems tbh. Jackson was very good in the previous game. For me he will start as the RCB with Hanlon on the left. James will play RB and probably Mackie LB until Lewis gets back.

[JimBHibees]

2 RCBs cause problems tbh. Jackson was very good in the previous game. For me he will start as the RCB with Hanlon on the left. James will play RB and probably Mackie LB until Lewis gets back.

Agree think that will be the back 4.

[BoomtownHibees]

2 RCBs cause problems tbh. Jackson was very good in the previous game. For me he will start as the RCB with Hanlon on the left. James will play RB and probably Mackie LB until Lewis gets back.

Aye I think that will be the back 4 as well. Wouldn’t bother me if it was DM and PH as the pairing however think we will go with AJ

[hibbyfraelibby]

5 changes again last night as Hecky indicated he wanted everyone to get equal game time. It was by no means our strongest XI nor was it our weakest.

We need to look at who has yet to return too...Gray, Stevenson, Porteous and Slivka to realise we do actually have some depth to the squad a number of the bed wetters on here fail to appreciate. Murray and Mackie are not just make weights and the likes of Campbell and Stirling will come in to the mix as we use our own development squad rather than somebody elses on loan as we have done in recent season.

The performance last night was comfortable and we never really needed to get out of 2nd gear.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Looking better as each game passes.

[matty_f]

Looking better as each game passes.

Yep. At the risk of sounding like a smart arse, it’s almost as if they now what they are doing.

I still think we will be seeded, we’ve progressed in the competition as we expected to, and have rotated the squad to get fitness levels up (which have looked better and better each game).

The style and cohesion of the team has improved game on game, and we’re creating chances while conceding few chances at the other end.

We were fine last night. The conditions were brutal and we got no favours from the officials yet we still won very comfortably. I have no complaints.

[Heedersnvolleys]

One of the interesting things over the last few years at the club is the polarising effect Lennon seems to have had amongst the support.

I loved his time here initially but was glad to see the back of him by the end. The born winner stuff and not settling for 4th place was all total nonsense though.

He was failing badly when he left and looking anything other than a born winner. In fact, he looked like a manager that couldn't handle the pressure of being at a club that doesn't have x10 the budget of their competitors.

Lennons 'ambition' at the club was ultimately hollow and worthless. By the end he was just a petulant child who started bullying the players as he couldn't get his own way.

You can be a born winner but not have the talents to carry it out however that lack of talent does not detract from the effort someone puts in. I think what we should be questioning is whether he had the skills or intelligence to continue what he had built

[Baldy Foghorn]

Yep. At the risk of sounding like a smart arse, it’s almost as if they now what they are doing.

I still think we will be seeded, we’ve progressed in the competition as we expected to, and have rotated the squad to get fitness levels up (which have looked better and better each game).

The style and cohesion of the team has improved game on game, and we’re creating chances while conceding few chances at the other end.

We were fine last night. The conditions were brutal and we got no favours from the officials yet we still won very comfortably. I have no complaints.

Pitch was lumpy and bumpy too Matty. Routine win, but fitness levels upped. Bring on the new season:flag:

[JimBHibees]

Yep. At the risk of sounding like a smart arse, it’s almost as if they now what they are doing.

I still think we will be seeded, we’ve progressed in the competition as we expected to, and have rotated the squad to get fitness levels up (which have looked better and better each game).

The style and cohesion of the team has improved game on game, and we’re creating chances while conceding few chances at the other end.

We were fine last night. The conditions were brutal and we got no favours from the officials yet we still won very comfortably. I have no complaints.

Agree comfortable win in potential banana skin game which with breaks we should have got we would have won by 4 or 5. Progressively getting better all good.

[southsider]

That idiot running to line for £800 a game and raised his flad for our 2nd goal should be binned forthwith. Just how many goals are we, wrongly, ruled out ? Just off the top of my head, last night, Spary's over the line v them, Shaw v them, Forster v them (is their a pattern here ?), Any more ?

[Sir David Gray]

We may not have achieved 12/12 in this group but we came as close as you can get.

Also, our much maligned in pre season defence conceded one goal in the opening game and that was it. That's almost five hours without conceding now.

I thought we looked pretty shaky in defence last night and a better side would have taken advantage of that.

We need to tighten up pretty quickly, if not for the game next week against St Mirren then certainly for the week after at Ibrox.

[Northernhibee]

I've said it before, but the group has been handled as it should have done. Unless you're managed by Ian Cathro, you're always getting through a group like that. We could go out with the "strongest XI" and pump each team four or five nil but once the season starts in anger, we get two or three injuries or suspensions and get pumped out of the cup and lose a few league games because we've not worked on different partnerships, shapes, tactical styles and have no other players match fit, then what?

This pre season we have:


Comfortably progressed
Only conceded one goal in the group
Tried three different keepers
Tried a range of defensive, midfield and attacking partnerships
Given Campbell, Stirling and Fraser Murray decent game time
Played with 1, 2 and 3 up front
Played with midfields of three and of four
Given a wide range of players decent game time to get familar with the style in which we play and to get match fit


That's not the stuff that may be of benefit in games one, two and three of the league but when it comes to game nine or ten and we're playing two games a week due to cup ties and need to rotate and adapt for missing personnel then all this becomes invaluable.

Seen Heckingbottom be described as a "slaver" in one post, in fact I think he's the most intelligent manager we've had since Mowbray.

[wookie70]

2 RCBs cause problems tbh. Jackson was very good in the previous game. For me he will start as the RCB with Hanlon on the left. James will play RB and probably Mackie LB until Lewis gets back.

The two RCB was the problem but I think Daz with start. He has been excellent in pre-season and has won every header and stopped many an attack. Jackson looks decent and I see him as cover for when Daz needs a rest or gets injured. Daz also brings lots of captaincy qualities to the pitch and when everyone is fit it wouldn't surprise me if the back four of the last few years is still the first pick back four this season. James is definitely challenging SDG but I still think SDG will get the start when he is fully fit. Great to have proper cover and competition for theses places as Daz, Hanlon and SDG nearly always have periods out due to injury and perhaps even indestructible Lewis is starting to feel the years.

[B.H.F.C]

James is definitely challenging SDG but I still think SDG will get the start when he is fully fit.

Gray’s position is really under threat IMO.

His impact on the team is obvious but his fitness is a real issue. Missed large parts of the last two seasons and he must be a fair bit behind in terms of pre season, if he’s back training.

Reckon James will start next week making it his position to lose.

[wookie70]

Gray’s position is really under threat IMO.

His impact on the team is obvious but his fitness is a real issue. Missed large parts of the last two seasons and he must be a fair bit behind in terms of pre season, if he’s back training.

Reckon James will start next week making it his position to lose.

I think that will depend on Gray's fitness but you are probably right given he has had far more game time than SDG. I still think when both are fully fit the motivational qualities of SDG will see him first choice. The other point will be that we don't know what the new signing will do against the top teams in Scotland. Good to have the competition though and nice that Mackie is starting to look better defensively as that not only gives cover but will make Lewis work to get his place back.

[Northernhibee]

FWIW I thought Whittaker had a decent game last night.

[Tug Wilson]

FWIW I thought Whittaker had a decent game last night.

Stop it. You can't let objectivity cloud the stated view that he is past it and just a drain on wages. No amount of playing well will change perceived opinion that Whittaker is rubbish.

And so is Newell even if it is only after 3 or 4 games and he was arguably our best player last night.

Or {insert name here} because he is an English lower league reject.

Or the youngster {insert name here} because they don't have what it takes to make the grade and East Mains is not working.

Or {insert name here} who we have been rumoured to be interested in as his Wikipedia page stats are nothing to write home about.

Have I missed any scenarios?

[wookie70]

Stop it. You can't let objectivity cloud the stated view that he is past it and just a drain on wages. No amount of playing well will change perceived opinion that Whittaker is rubbish.

And so is Newell even if it is only after 3 or 4 games and he was arguably our best player last night.

Or {insert name here} because he is an English lower league reject.

Or the youngster {insert name here} because they don't have what it takes to make the grade and East Mains is not working.

Or {insert name here} who we have been rumoured to be interested in as his Wikipedia page stats are nothing to write home about.

Have I missed any scenarios?

Yes Or {insert name here} who the manager is blaming for our lack of current form

[greenlex]

FWIW I thought Whittaker had a decent game last night.

Burn the Witch.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Stop it. You can't let objectivity cloud the stated view that he is past it and just a drain on wages. No amount of playing well will change perceived opinion that Whittaker is rubbish.

And so is Newell even if it is only after 3 or 4 games and he was arguably our best player last night.

Or {insert name here} because he is an English lower league reject.

Or the youngster {insert name here} because they don't have what it takes to make the grade and East Mains is not working.

Or {insert name here} who we have been rumoured to be interested in as his Wikipedia page stats are nothing to write home about.

Have I missed any scenarios?
Hundreds of them aye. You’ve just chosen a few extreme ones that imply any form of criticism is unsubstantiated, unjustified and somehow not capable of being objective. It’s a common for people who don’t have the ability to form a cohesive argument to do this though.

[04Sauzee]

Sorry if it's been covered here already. Hearts need to win by 4 to better us. Is this down to goals scored as goals difference would be the same?

[Sir David Gray]

Sorry if it's been covered here already. Hearts need to win by 4 to better us. Is this down to goals scored as goals difference would be the same?

Yes.

[Wakeyhibee]

FWIW I don't think we as fans can judge too much too early.

I've seen comments (no dig) that some folk can see things early on. What I see is an approach that I don't recall Hibs use often if at all. This being the rotation of so many players in what is already the first competitive games.

Result is 11pts out of 12 which is there or there abouts. Complaints can be made about the Stirling game but then again. I've seen us go out to QOS over 2 legs in the 80s and Montrose in the latter stages in Eddie Turnbulls days (There's probably more examples).

By all accounts the new signings are starting to bed in and what started out as a feeling of disappointed in the quality of the new signings 3 weeks ago on here, is slowly turning to more positives.

I am sure there is more to come. What I think is very hard to see is how far these signings will get us. This will become more apparent in August and September (and thats without any more additions be it a loan or whatever).

St Mirren for me is a must win considering the turmoil they've been through. Not getting beat at Ibrox will be a massive ask, they've strengthened and are getting back to the form thats gonna see a duopoly again. Still not impossible but getting more improbable.

The next 2 games are where I think we will see how we are shaping up for the season v St Johnstone & Motherwell I think it is.

As said earlier I've not seen this approach before so far after the season has started in earnest. I'm sure we're not relegation fodder, mid table scrap is possible but I really hope this approach will pay dividends and we see a serious push in the top 3-5.

I also think Motherwell are shaping up to be a possible Killie this season.

[B.H.F.C]

FWIW I don't think we as fans can judge too much too early.

I've seen comments (no dig) that some folk can see things early on. What I see is an approach that I don't recall at Hibs use often if at all. This being the rotation of so many players in what is already the first competitive games.

Result is 11pts out of 12 which is there or there abouts. Complaints can be made about the Stirling game but then again. I've seen us go out to QOS over 2 legs in the 80s and Montrose in the latter stages in Eddie Turnbulls days (There's probably more examples).

By all accounts the new signings are starting to bed in and what started out as a feeling disappointed in the quality of the new signings 3 weeks ago on here is slowly turning to more positives.

I am sure there is more to come. What I think is very hard to see is how far these signings will get us. I think this will become more apparent in August and September (andtgats without any more additions be it a loan or whatever).

St Mirren for me is a must win considering the turmoil they've been through. Not getting beat at Ibrox will be a massive ask, they've strengthened and are getting back to the form thats gonna see a duopoly again. Still not impossible but getting more improbable.

The next 2 games are where I think we will see how we are shaping up for the season v St Johnstone & Motherwell I think it is.

As said earlier I've not seen this approach before so far after the season has started in earnest I'm sure we're not relegation fodder, mid table scrap is possible but I really hope this approach will pay dividends and we see a serious push in the top 3-5.

I also think Motherwell are shaping up to a possible Killie this season.

Do your first and last sentences not contradict each other a bit?

[Wakeyhibee]

Do your first and last sentences not contradict each other a bit?

:greengrin yes, I should have said that I have a feeling that's all, a by the by, but thats too is early also

[brog]

2 RCBs cause problems tbh. Jackson was very good in the previous game. For me he will start as the RCB with Hanlon on the left. James will play RB and probably Mackie LB until Lewis gets back.

Centre half pairing as you suggest is a shoo in but it wouldn't surprise me to see Whitty at RB & James at LB. Other than that I think Mallan, Horgan & Vela are the only guaranteed starters.

[CapitalGreen]

Centre half pairing as you suggest is a shoo in but it wouldn't surprise me to see Whitty at RB & James at LB. Other than that I think Mallan, Horgan & Vela are the only guaranteed starters.

Bloody hope not.

[Inconsequential]

Burn the Witch. Warlock. :wink:

[ancient hibee]

Hundreds of them aye. You’ve just chosen a few extreme ones that imply any form of criticism is unsubstantiated, unjustified and somehow not capable of being objective. It’s a common for people who don’t have the ability to form a cohesive argument to do this though.

Or the ability to write a sentence that makes any sense?

[JimBHibees]

FWIW I thought Whittaker had a decent game last night.

He did and always has been a very good player.

[Inconsequential]

Or the ability to write a sentence that makes any sense? But it's the digital age ancient hibee, you don't need to spell or have grammar of a respectable standard anymore. The country as a whole is done. :agree:

[jacomo]

Gray’s position is really under threat IMO.

His impact on the team is obvious but his fitness is a real issue. Missed large parts of the last two seasons and he must be a fair bit behind in terms of pre season, if he’s back training.

Reckon James will start next week making it his position to lose.


Delighted James seems to have settled well. But a fully fit SDG is such an asset to our team. He will play, but unlikely to play all the time.

[Tug Wilson]

Hundreds of them aye. You’ve just chosen a few extreme ones that imply any form of criticism is unsubstantiated, unjustified and somehow not capable of being objective. It’s a common for people who don’t have the ability to form a cohesive argument to do this though.

Ha ha. Ok I'll bite.

Didn't know I was being ask for a cohesive argument. Just thought I was being a sarcastic smartarse about all the negative ninnies on here who are looking for any excuse to do down the club that they supposedly support.

[Eyrie]

Centre half pairing as you suggest is a shoo in but it wouldn't surprise me to see Whitty at RB & James at LB. Other than that I think Mallan, Horgan & Vela are the only guaranteed starters.

I'd include Allan in that list.

But it's a nice problem to have that we can discuss which players are the best options and combinations for us instead of complaining that none of them are good enough.

[Smiggy 7-0]

My first game for over a year since moving home 3 years ago to Forres. Good result under difficult circumstances, liked the look of new signings especially Newell.
Nice to have bumped into Big Frank, good chat but sad to hear about Eddie Campbell's health...get well soon Eddie.
Biggest mystery of the night...sprinklers on at half time in the P****** Rain.