Hsl

[Baldy Foghorn]

You postings on this thread are anything but calm and what’s the point of agitating about something that you concede we know nothing of.

There may well come a time to be agitated but isn’t now a bit premature to be seeing mistruths in every comment and bogeymen at every turn?

As I've said, I've been accused of putting spin on things.

That said I'm bored talking to people who can't digest my posts, without thinking I'm ranting....

Goodnight all

[Power]

What I’ve taken from this is some Hibs fans loved providing extra funds to the Club irregardless, some were energised to get over 25% of club shares in one voice - a population were keen for a higher percentage. A fair number were enthusiastic to provide more funds direct to the manager and others content that the club would do as it sees fit with it.

A wide range of opinions but engaged nonetheless. It is what it is now and it’s about making the right decisions here on in. Patience will give us more opportunities on how to progress.

I’m keeping a tab on things and here throughout.

[tamig]

Making an arse of myself? Suppose you would have to read the responses here on that I was putting spin on things, on the PM.

I'm passionate, if it means people don't like me, couldn't care less. You and others no nothing about me....
I think a picture is emerging.

[wallpaperman]

What I’ve taken from this is some Hibs fans loved providing extra funds to the Club irregardless, some were energised to get over 25% of club shares in one voice - a population were keen for a higher percentage. A fair number were enthusiastic to provide more funds direct to the manager and others content that the club would do as it sees fit with it.

A wide range of opinions but engaged nonetheless. It is what it is now and it’s about making the right decisions here on in. Patience will give us more opportunities on how to progress.

I’m keeping a tab on things and here throughout.

Very well put.

[DaveF]

Making an arse of myself? Suppose you would have to read the responses here on that I was putting spin on things, on the PM.

I'm passionate, if it means people don't like me, couldn't care less. You and others no nothing about me....

I read the responses.

You were good enough to post feedback on last nights session and people asked questions about it to which you defended your position. I don't think anyone (on either side of that) was out of line.

It's your constant digging up of HSL, the change of direction it clearly has to take and the barbed remarks about trust that I and others are getting at you for.

I think you are taking things too personally - it happens. I've been there and done it plenty times myself.

I'll leave you to it.

[tamig]

What I’ve taken from this is some Hibs fans loved providing extra funds to the Club irregardless, some were energised to get over 25% of club shares in one voice - a population were keen for a higher percentage. A fair number were enthusiastic to provide more funds direct to the manager and others content that the club would do as it sees fit with it.

A wide range of opinions but engaged nonetheless. It is what it is now and it’s about making the right decisions here on in. Patience will give us more opportunities on how to progress.

I’m keeping a tab on things and here throughout.

Appreciate you maybe can’t say too much but were there discussions around HSLs position in the run-up to the takeover in the boardroom?

[Billy Whizz]

What I’ve taken from this is some Hibs fans loved providing extra funds to the Club irregardless, some were energised to get over 25% of club shares in one voice - a population were keen for a higher percentage. A fair number were enthusiastic to provide more funds direct to the manager and others content that the club would do as it sees fit with it.

A wide range of opinions but engaged nonetheless. It is what it is now and it’s about making the right decisions here on in. Patience will give us more opportunities on how to progress.

I’m keeping a tab on things and here throughout.

KP, I’m keeping my payments going for the moment, if we don’t find a solution, I’m sure I’ll get my money back I hope

As an aside, when does Ron chair his 1st Hibs board meeting

[madhatter]

Definitely considering ceasing DD until this matter is clarified at the very least. Real shame that time wasn't invested in this while buyover was being discussed. Even to put in place a rough contingency plan. Club knew the buyover may have been coming for months.

Call for patience is understandable but I'm sure Ron wouldn't invest/donate money without knowing what/where it was going and what significance it had. Real shame that HSL and club always seem to be at an arms length from a supporters perspective. Really hope Ron reinvigorates the fan engagement and general marketing of the club.

Sooner this void is filled the better.

[DaveF]

Definitely considering ceasing DD until this matter is clarified at the very least. Real shame that time wasn't invested in this while buyover was being discussed. Even to put in place a rough contingency plan. Club knew the buyover may have been coming for months.

Call for patience is understandable but I'm sure Ron wouldn't invest/donate money without knowing what/where it was going and what significance it had. Real shame that HSL and club always seem to be at an arms length from a supporters perspective. Really hope Ron reinvigorates the fan engagement and general marketing of the club.

Sooner this void is filled the better.

If you can, I'd hope you keep them going. The HSL emailed stated that payments are held so I have no doubt that those wishing to have monies refunded following whatever HSL morphs into, will be refunded.

[BSEJVT]

As I've said, I've been accused of putting spin on things.

That said I'm bored talking to people who can't digest my posts, without thinking I'm ranting....

Goodnight all

Probably would have a been a good idea to round on your accusers individually then rather than firing off indiscriminately?

That still doesn't excuse your accusing Jim Adie of being "remiss" either?

I think you are due him an apology over that?

But that's enough from me, there are bigger issues to discuss here.

[CapitalGreen]

Definitely considering ceasing DD until this matter is clarified at the very least. Real shame that time wasn't invested in this while buyover was being discussed. Even to put in place a rough contingency plan. Club knew the buyover may have been coming for months.

Call for patience is understandable but I'm sure Ron wouldn't invest/donate money without knowing what/where it was going and what significance it had. Real shame that HSL and club always seem to be at an arms length from a supporters perspective. Really hope Ron reinvigorates the fan engagement and general marketing of the club.

Sooner this void is filled the better.

Out of interest, what are you looking for clarification on?

[Hibs4185]

If you can, I'd hope you keep them going. The HSL emailed stated that payments are held so I have no doubt that those wishing to have monies refunded following whatever HSL morphs into, will be refunded.

Why does HSL have to morph into anything? It can still amass funds so if/when there is a share issue it can use there funds to buy shares.

HSL still does what it says on the tin. Protects its shareholding from being diluted and a share issue means we aren’t borrowing money from Ron Gordon which is a much safer was for our club. I for one would much rather raise funds through share issues than borrowing.

If Ron doesn’t buy into the share issue, then his shareholding is diluted and HSL’s increases. It’s a win win situation.

[Stuart93]

Can’t help but think if people do decide to stop DD’s it’ll be the clubs fault

An agreement should’ve been reached before now never mind meetings still on going

Communication from the club about HSL not being able to purchase anymore is non existent. Incredibly poor

[jacomo]

HSL was going nowhere fast, hence the increasing measures they were trying to get people to donate, prize draws, strips etc. The reality of the situation is that there is just no real appetite for for a fan lead ownership scheme amongst the Hibs support. HSL has been in existence for nearly 4 and a half years and it generates a fraction of the income our neighbours scheme does.

RG injected nearly £4m into the club last week, making over £1m available straight away to use as we please plus clearing our debt which will uplift our budget by £0.5m per year. I’ll take that over 6 more years of debt repayments and zero prospect of cash injections under fan ownership.


Irrelevant.

Those who did contribute to HSL (which now has a significant share holding in the club by the way) deserve a better and more timely explanation about what is going on.

[Power]

Appreciate you maybe can’t say too much but were there discussions around HSLs position in the run-up to the takeover in the boardroom?

Everything would have been on the table for full consideration.



Billy_Whizz
B - Tuesday 23rd July.

[jacomo]

Out of interest, what are you looking for clarification on?


Is HSL still acquiring shares in the club or not?

It really isn’t complicated.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I've never subscribed to HSL on principle. I dont agree with out right or even majority fan ownership as I see it as a recipe for disaster in the medium to long term denying the club access to outside investmemt (as opposed to debt) and a governance nightmare with too many opinions with too little authority or responsibility.


HSL was set up to buy shares in the club from STF's shareholding. He doesnt have any now so there is nowt to buy. Get over it.

You want to create a blocking group now then you need to buy from the nominees or participate in any share issue programme on a pound for pound basis.

Hibernian is a business, you are the customers. Always have been and customers dont run companies. Fan of Sainsbury products? Do you buy shares in them?

Those of you who want to try buying shares to influence the future go ahead but your money isnt going into the club. Me I'll continue to buy tickets, merchandise, Happy Hibby etc and donate to fund raising.

Clubs need a strong, financially astute, solvent benevolent major shareholder with a strategy and the wherewithall to deliver it.


your sainsburys analogy seems a wee bit out of place given most people don’t usually donate to fundraising for their favourite supermarket on top of their weekly shopping... something you admit to doing for Hibs. Football Clubs should be run in a businesslike way, but they are clearly not ‘normal’ businesses. Never have been.

the rest of your post is also disappointingly misinformed and disrespectful to 2400 plus of your fellow Hibs fans. People who have contributed £800,000 in additional money to your football club. Misinformed because hardly anyone involved in HSL wanted full control or majority ownership. So your “Boo boo, you lost, get over it” sneering is also misplaced.

[Bostonhibby]

What I’ve taken from this is some Hibs fans loved providing extra funds to the Club irregardless, some were energised to get over 25% of club shares in one voice - a population were keen for a higher percentage. A fair number were enthusiastic to provide more funds direct to the manager and others content that the club would do as it sees fit with it.

A wide range of opinions but engaged nonetheless. It is what it is now and it’s about making the right decisions here on in. Patience will give us more opportunities on how to progress.

I’m keeping a tab on things and here throughout.Wise words.

I'm winding back to where I was before HSL kicked in. Watching and waiting optimistically to be persuaded to buy into whatever comes next.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[tamig]

Definitely considering ceasing DD until this matter is clarified at the very least. Real shame that time wasn't invested in this while buyover was being discussed. Even to put in place a rough contingency plan. Club knew the buyover may have been coming for months.

Call for patience is understandable but I'm sure Ron wouldn't invest/donate money without knowing what/where it was going and what significance it had. Real shame that HSL and club always seem to be at an arms length from a supporters perspective. Really hope Ron reinvigorates the fan engagement and general marketing of the club.

Sooner this void is filled the better.
Thats quite sad. If I’m reading you right you seem to be implying that HSL were fully aware of the impending takeover and should have had contingency plans in place. I don’t think HSL have kept the supporters at arms length at all. I’d say the club have constantly kept HSL at arms length - despite having two directors on the Board.

[tamig]

Why does HSL have to morph into anything? It can still amass funds so if/when there is a share issue it can use there funds to buy shares.

HSL still does what it says on the tin. Protects its shareholding from being diluted and a share issue means we aren’t borrowing money from Ron Gordon which is a much safer was for our club. I for one would much rather raise funds through share issues than borrowing.

If Ron doesn’t buy into the share issue, then his shareholding is diluted and HSL’s increases. It’s a win win situation.
Is it not down to Ron to sanction any new rights issue though? That seems to be the only way new shares will become available for HSL to purchase. As major shareholder I’d imagine he’d be taking up the bulk of any new ones available through a rights issue.

[CapitalGreen]

Irrelevant.

Those who did contribute to HSL (which now has a significant share holding in the club by the way) deserve a better and more timely explanation about what is going on.

What do you mean an explanation of what’s going on? I am a HSL contributor and I am content I know what’s going on.

RG bought HFC’s shareholding.
RG also bought the outstanding share capital authorised in 2015 for approximately £3.5m.

This cleared the debt the club had to STF and also injected a further ~£1.25m into the club.

As these shares were newly issued shares and not part of the existing share capital, the shareholding’s of all existing shareholders was diluted.

There is now no more authorised share capital available for purchase from the club so HSL is no longer able to spend any money raised on share purchases. Any money raised from this point onwards will be kept in HSL’s bank account until they determine next steps, however it will not be spent on shares as there is none to purchase.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Our city neighbours revel in the fact that HSL only has about a quarter of their monthly contributors - let's not give them more ammo to use when they accuse us of being less generous/loyal than they are.

I can assure you, what a bunch of dour, cardigan wearing bores across town think is the absolute last thing on my mind. Now and always.

[Billy Whizz]

Everything would have been on the table for full consideration.



B - Tuesday 23rd July.

Ta, will be an interesting meeting I’m sure. New man and Archie setting out their stall

[CapitalGreen]

Is HSL still acquiring shares in the club or not?

It really isn’t complicated.

No, that would be impossible as there is no share capital available to buy. The only way HSL could acquire more shares is if private investors make their shares available to them.

[tamig]

Is HSL still acquiring shares in the club or not?

It really isn’t complicated.

None are available unless existing shareholders approach HSL.

[3pm]

Ta, will be an interesting meeting I’m sure. New man and Archie setting out their stall

‘Point 1 on the agenda. Who’s this Dylan McGeouch?’

[CapitalGreen]

Is it not down to Ron to sanction any new rights issue though? That seems to be the only way new shares will become available for HSL to purchase. As major shareholder I’d imagine he’d be taking up the bulk of any new ones available through a rights issue.

Correct, to issue more shares in the club would require a change to the Articles of the club which would need to be approved by over 75% of the shareholders. As RG owns ~67% it could not be done without his approval.

[madhatter]

Out of interest, what are you looking for clarification on?

What HSL now means is what I need clarification on. What relationship will the new/existing body have with the club? Clearly HSL, and us fans, require that clarification hence why the funds are stored in the bank at the moment rather than being transferred to the club. My take on the current communication is that until further notice the vehicle to raise funds for the playing budget/get shares in the club is defunct until further notice.

I do not take any offence to your question and do find it a valid question (depending on the underlying tone which I won't attempt to read based on typed words on a forum!). However, I've been a supporter of the club since I can remember and unfortunately do not have the wealth of Ron (yet hopefully). Ron is not buying into Hibs out the goodness of his heart. He'll have motives. I find it slightly strange, while the question is valid (tone permitting), that a fan putting money aside each month into a club he's supported his entire life is being asked "Out of interest, what are you looking for clarification on?" when it comes to what that investment/donation now means after a millionaire just bought over the club. I just cannot see Ron being asked the same when he puts money into a club he has no affinity with.

If Hibs do really well and win the league while Ron is the owner, he will receive the adulation and relative fame. Farmer received that for what he did. That should come at a cost and it shouldn't come out of fans pockets especially in unknown terms. Ron invests. Fans donate. I need clarification on that one.

[Hibs4185]

Is it not down to Ron to sanction any new rights issue though? That seems to be the only way new shares will become available for HSL to purchase. As major shareholder I’d imagine he’d be taking up the bulk of any new ones available through a rights issue.

In all honesty I’m not 100% sure but he is not the owner and sole voice, he is the majority shareholder so the directors of the business and all share holders would probably have a say.

If a bank has a share issue then I can’t imagine the majority share holder stopping it.

[Pagan Hibernia]

In all honesty I’m not 100% sure but he is not the owner and sole voice, he is the majority shareholder so the directors of the business and all share holders would probably have a say.

If a bank has a share issue then I can’t imagine the majority share holder stopping it.

Correct, and RG would also need the approval of the supporter shareholders to do another share issue.
i would be dubious about granting this approval. As much as I would want more shares for HSL to buy, it could backfire and open the door to our shareholding being reduced still further.

[BSEJVT]

Why does HSL have to morph into anything? It can still amass funds so if/when there is a share issue it can use there funds to buy shares.

HSL still does what it says on the tin. Protects its shareholding from being diluted and a share issue means we aren’t borrowing money from Ron Gordon which is a much safer was for our club. I for one would much rather raise funds through share issues than borrowing.

If Ron doesn’t buy into the share issue, then his shareholding is diluted and HSL’s increases. It’s a win win situation.

There is no share issue all the authorised shares have been bought

RG has made it clear he won't presently authorise at more shares for HSL to buy

They are raising funds on the basis of a proposition that no longer exists, IMO they cannot continue to do so

[CapitalGreen]

What HSL now means is what I need clarification on. What relationship will the new/existing body have with the club? Clearly HSL, and us fans, require that clarification hence why the funds are stored in the bank at the moment rather than being transferred to the club. My take on the current communication is that until further notice the vehicle to raise funds for the playing budget/get shares in the club is defunct until further notice.

I do not take any offence to your question and do find it a valid question (depending on the underlying tone which I won't attempt to read based on typed words on a forum!). However, I've been a supporter of the club since I can remember and unfortunately do not have the wealth of Ron (yet hopefully). Ron is not buying into Hibs out the goodness of his heart. He'll have motives. I find it slightly strange, while the question is valid (tone permitting), that a fan putting money aside each month into a club he's supported his entire life is being asked "Out of interest, what are you looking for clarification on?" when it comes to what that investment/donation now means after a millionaire just bought over the club. I just cannot see Ron being asked the same when he puts money into a club he has no affinity with.

If Hibs do really well and win the league while Ron is the owner, he will receive the adulation and relative fame. Farmer received that for what he did. That should come at a cost and it shouldn't come out of fans pockets especially in unknown terms. Ron invests. Fans donate. I need clarification on that one.

Your previous post didn’t quote anyone so it was difficult to know what you wanted clarified as I have attempted to address other posters concerns regarding share dilution etc.

[tamig]

In all honesty I’m not 100% sure but he is not the owner and sole voice, he is the majority shareholder so the directors of the business and all share holders would probably have a say.

If a bank has a share issue then I can’t imagine the majority share holder stopping it.
Who proposes the rights issue though?

[Gerard]

I look forward to future postings by HSL regarding their future. HSL has a substantial minority share holding in the club and in time it might be able to buy private share holder shares and reach its share holding targets of 20 and 25.1 percent.
This might now be an opportune time to ask the members what they would like HSL to do with the money they continue to receive from their supporters.
I fully respect the directors of HSL who continue to act in the best interests of all HSl members and in supporting Hibs FC.

[Hibs4185]

Correct, and RG would also need the approval of the supporter shareholders to do another share issue.
i would be dubious about granting this approval. As much as I would want more shares for HSL to buy, it could backfire and open the door to our shareholding being reduced still further.

That’s why I’m suggesting HSL continue as it is and collecting funds. If there is a share issue then Ron and HSL buy shares. If there’s no share issue and Ron lends us money, then HSL has a rainy day fund in case Ron wants out and then we have funds to stop an admin event or such like.

My biggest worry with Ron is him lending us money and building up debts which is where we have the potential to get in trouble. I am comfortable with our position just now and I am sure RG’s intentions are true but I think we have to be prepared for all scenarios and I would be much happier if HSL had funds available for any unforeseen events

Plus if HSL had these funds, if Ron ever decided to sell his majority shareholding which I am sure he will, we would have the funds instantly available to make him a very attractive offer for all or most of his shares and achieve the aim of fan ownership.

[OfficialHSL]

So you met Monday rather than Friday? Great. Your mandate is no longer as it states on websit (to purchase shares).

Baldy

Can we once again ask for your patience. I, as a Member of the Hibernian Supporters Board met Ron on Monday the 1st July and more of us met him again on Monday 8th of July.

As I said, twice.

Our primary objective has not changed i.e. to acquire as many shares in Hibernian Football Club as possible. Please give me a call if you feel I am not giving out the correct information.

Jim

[BoomtownHibees]

That’s why I’m suggesting HSL continue as it is and collecting funds. If there is a share issue then Ron and HSL buy shares. If there’s no share issue and Ron lends us money, then HSL has a rainy day find in case Ron wants out and then we have funds to stop an admin event or such like.

My biggest worry with Ron is him lending us money and building up debts which is where we have the potential to get in trouble. I am comfortable with our position just now and I am sure RG’s intentions are true but I think we Jane to be prepared for all scenarios and I would be much happier if HSL had funds available for any unforeseen em events

So you want supporters to continue donating and HSL hold the funds until the day comes (if it ever does) to stop an admin event?

That is so far removed from what HSL was initially setup for and I can’t see many continuing with their donations if none of it is going to the club

[hibbydad]

That’s why I’m suggesting HSL continue as it is and collecting funds. If there is a share issue then Ron and HSL buy shares. If there’s no share issue and Ron lends us money, then HSL has a rainy day fund in case Ron wants out and then we have funds to stop an admin event or such like.

My biggest worry with Ron is him lending us money and building up debts which is where we have the potential to get in trouble. I am comfortable with our position just now and I am sure RG’s intentions are true but I think we have to be prepared for all scenarios and I would be much happier if HSL had funds available for any unforeseen events
I agree with you and hoefully if there is a rights issue HSL will invest just as I would

[BSEJVT]

In all honesty I’m not 100% sure but he is not the owner and sole voice, he is the majority shareholder so the directors of the business and all share holders would probably have a say.

If a bank has a share issue then I can’t imagine the majority share holder stopping it.

The call to issue further shares would need to come from the board

A Board he controls

There won't be a further share issue unless he wants there to be

Its possible board could agree to authorise further shares and then as majority shareholder, he could acquire the lot without any other new or prospective shareholder having opportunity to buy further diluting existing shareholder percentages.

Caveat, this is not my speciality subject so I could well be wrong.

But this happens a lot when large companies want to raise capital and the entire issue is bought/underwritten before getting anywhere near the market

For that reason I am not keen on folk handing their shares willy nilly to HSL

10,000 dissenting minority shareholders would make more noise than 1

[CapitalGreen]

My biggest worry with Ron is him lending us money and building up debts which is where we have the potential to get in trouble. I am comfortable with our position just now and I am sure RG’s intentions are true but I think we have to be prepared for all scenarios and I would be much happier if HSL had funds available for any unforeseen events

It’s not really in RG’s financial interest to saddle the club with debt. We don’t make enough money to service a debt on top of what we generate every year.

[Lago]

HSL was going nowhere fast, hence the increasing measures they were trying to get people to donate, prize draws, strips etc. The reality of the situation is that there is just no real appetite for for a fan lead ownership scheme amongst the Hibs support. HSL has been in existence for nearly 4 and a half years and it generates a fraction of the income our neighbours scheme does.

RG injected nearly £4m into the club last week, making over £1m available straight away to use as we please plus clearing our debt which will uplift our budget by £0.5m per year. I’ll take that over 6 more years of debt repayments and zero prospect of cash injections under fan ownership.
Splendid post, you've absolutely nailed it.:aok:

[Glory Lurker]

What appear to be the options, and what is bothering me about them:

1. HSL continues to collect so it can build up funds to buy up shares from other shareholders. Does this just go on indefinitely if nobody agrees to sell? Can I get my money back? How does HSL agree a price, what parameters are put in place to manage that?

2. HSL runs as a conduit for funds to the club. How do we agree what parts of Hibs’ operations HSL is allowed to give money for? How do we get the club to agree to accept that? Can I get my money back if I don’t like what funds will be given to the club for?

3. A mixture of 1 and 2.

[Cheshire Hibby]

As a private shareholder and an HSL member, I intend to keep my contribution going for now and will wait to see what plans emerge from both Ron Gordan and HSL. My initial thoughts are that I want to see as strong a Hibernian team as possible competing in all competitions annually and it was because of the assurances from HSL and the Chief Executive, LD, that HSL contributions would be used exclusively for the player budget, that I joined and contribute, albeit in a small way monthly.

Again, my initial feeling is that if HSL contributions continue to be used for the player budget, I will continue. If HSL contributions are diverted say towards assisting with funding of the proposed indoor facility then perhaps I would be ok with this so long as that asset was always going to be owned by Hibernian FC. If HSL contributions are to be used for any other purpose, further clarity is going to be needed.

I know it's boring but I will await further information and be patient.


GGTTH

[Hibs4185]

It’s not really in RG’s financial interest to saddle the club with debt. We don’t make enough money to service a debt on top of what we generate every year.

How else will he pump money into is then? I wouldn’t imagine he would make donations, share issue’s as I’ve mentioned or loans? Everyone went crazy about the floating charge and rightly so, but the floating charge does suggest he will eventually lend us money.

[OfficialHSL]

The thing is it was not inevitable. If we, the supporters, had taken up the offer we would have owned 51% of the club. We chose not to do that and so the shares were there for an outside bidder, in this case Ron Gordon. The only inevitable thing was that STF would have to move on one day. We were offered the opportunity to be in control of how that happened but we chose not to accept that offer in sufficient numbers. The negativity spouted on sites like this helped to ensure that failure happened. Everyone is entitled to their view and to do what they wish with their spare cash if they have any but we cannot then complain if we did not climb on the bus at the controls.
As I said before, there is a new bus at the station with a different destination. We can now choose to climb aboard but this time we must have faith in the driver. It’s our choice. I for one want to be along for the ride and if it means subsidising people who can’t afford the ticket I am happy to do my bit. What I have more difficulty with is bringing along a small but vociferous bunch of moaners full of nothing but negativity.

Centreline

Thank you for what we believe to be a well balanced post.

As a side note we think it is fair to say that Hibernian Supporters have gone out of our way to always point out that a fan controlled Club was never on offer nor indeed promoted by us. We have always have had a target of achieving 25.1 % stake.

We want to make sure that another bus will be right along soon.


Hibernian Supporters

[CapitalGreen]

How else will he pump money into is then? I wouldn’t imagine he would make donations, share issue’s as I’ve mentioned or loans? Everyone went crazy about the floating charge and rightly so, but the floating charge does suggest he will eventually lend us money.

It doesn’t suggest anything, it just means the borrowing facility is there if we need to use it.

Same as if I take out a bank account with an authorised overdraft facility doesn’t mean I am going to be overdrawn. However, it’s presence means I am comfortable in the knowledge that if I need to use it then it’s available to me.

[superfurryhibby]

Splendid post, you've absolutely nailed it.:aok:

Except for the glaringly obvious error when describing the Hibs fans appetite for buying shares/ funding HSL. Even following shareholding dilution the combined levels are hardly insignificant, are they?

[Eyrie]

In a month or two I expect an announcement from HSL about the way forward for future funds raised. At that point I will consider my position - probably a case of keep paying if the money goes directly into the club but stop if it will be used to buy existing shares.

So I'll keep paying into HSL for now.

[Hibs4185]

It doesn’t suggest anything, it just means the borrowing facility is there if we need to use it.

Same as if I take out a bank account with an authorised overdraft facility doesn’t mean I am going to be overdrawn. However, it’s presence means I am comfortable in the knowledge that if I need to use it then it’s available to me.

I completely understand what you are saying in regards to the borrowing being available if needed, but that is my biggest concern-getting into debt.

Yes it’s maybe affordable to pay it off, and Ron wouldn’t want to saddle the club with debt but previously and as of this minute we are completely financially stable and self sufficient. The only risk to that is debt, our previous debt was to STF who we all knew was a completely safe pair of hands. We don’t know that yet about Ron although I am sure his intentions are good.

I’m just saying HSL can continue to raise funds, to either buy shares in a rights issue, or safeguard the club if there is debts, or eventually when Ron sells up.

Everything is so positive at the moment, I’ve been supporting Hibs for34 years and we have the chance of something amazing, but with all businesses and especially a volatile sport like
Football it’s good to plan for all eventualities.

[CapitalGreen]

Except for the glaringly obvious error when describing the Hibs fans appetite for buying shares/ funding HSL. Even following shareholding dilution the combined levels are hardly insignificant, are they?

If you can prove a demonstrable appetite for fan ownership amongst the support I’d like to see it. We even have HSL board members on this thread saying that wasn’t their goal. I liked the thought of HSL having a voice and enjoying owning a share of the club but the idea of a fans collective being in control gives me the fear.

[matty_f]

I think folk need to keep in mind that this is an unexpected development for HSL, and the way forward isn’t going to become clear after one or two brief meetings (or even long meetings).

I think patience is required, I don’t think stopping direct debits for the sake of waiting a little while - even a couple of months - is necessary.

There will be a few things to consider and I’d imagine HSL will want a good working relationship with Ron Gordon, so maybe we could give everyone concerned the time and space needed to get a good outcome for us all, rather than backing people into a corner to make a quick buy potentially bad, decision.

HSL’s email was perfectly reasonable imho. Time of needed folks, no point thumping our chests on here demanding answers or action if we don’t let folk figure out what questions need to be asked and what action should be taken.

[Lago]

Except for the glaringly obvious error when describing the Hibs fans appetite for buying shares/ funding HSL. Even following shareholding dilution the combined levels are hardly insignificant, are they?
I think the fan ownership is vastly overstated by some on here, also no way should money continued to be collected until HSL provide clarity as to what they intend to do with the cash

[tamig]

The call to issue further shares would need to come from the board

A Board he controls

There won't be a further share issue unless he wants there to be

Its possible board could agree to authorise further shares and then as majority shareholder, he could acquire the lot without any other new or prospective shareholder having opportunity to buy further diluting existing shareholder percentages.

Caveat, this is not my speciality subject so I could well be wrong.

But this happens a lot when large companies want to raise capital and the entire issue is bought/underwritten before getting anywhere near the market

For that reason I am not keen on folk handing their shares willy nilly to HSL

10,000 dissenting minority shareholders would make more noise than 1

Thats fine if the 10000 are all singing from the same song sheet - which I can’t see in all honesty.

[OfficialHSL]

As a private shareholder and an HSL member, I intend to keep my contribution going for now and will wait to see what plans emerge from both Ron Gordan and HSL. My initial thoughts are that I want to see as strong a Hibernian team as possible competing in all competitions annually and it was because of the assurances from HSL and the Chief Executive, LD, that HSL contributions would be used exclusively for the player budget, that I joined and contribute, albeit in a small way monthly.

Again, my initial feeling is that if HSL contributions continue to be used for the player budget, I will continue. If HSL contributions are diverted say towards assisting with funding of the proposed indoor facility then perhaps I would be ok with this so long as that asset was always going to be owned by Hibernian FC. If HSL contributions are to be used for any other purpose, further clarity is going to be needed.

I know it's boring but I will await further information and be patient.


GGTTH

Cheshire Hibby

It's not boring and we appreciate your patience. While our Articles are clear and we continue to pursue our primary objective we have worked hard to build your trust and do not intend to lose that trust. We are mindful that the landscape has changed and just for a temporary period we will not be directing any funds anywhere without consulting our Members. Hibernian Supporters is the second largest shareholder in the Club and is here to stay and grow.
Further clarity of course is required and will be given.

Hibernian Supporters

[malcolm]

I agree with you and hoefully if there is a rights issue HSL will invest just as I would
If Ron went for a rights issue he’d be able to purchase too. HSL would be restricted to the funds they had in place in taking up that option in part or in full. The end result may be Ron owns a larger share though the club gets more funds.

There seems a lot of misunderstanding, confusion and knicker twisting going on when contemplating small bits of an emerging bigger picture.. relax, chill and keep your powder dry in case it is needed. At the moment the garden seems rosy but it is too soon to be sure. It is possible the manure to grow the garden may not smell as sweet as it could but I’ve yet to get a whiff of even that. Meanwhile keep your hoe handy to keep the weeds at bay :wink:

[tamig]

I think folk need to keep in mind that this is an unexpected development for HSL, and the way forward isn’t going to become clear after one or two brief meetings (or even long meetings).

I think patience is required, I don’t think stopping direct debits for the sake of waiting a little while - even a couple of months - is necessary.

There will be a few things to consider and I’d imagine HSL will want a good working relationship with Ron Gordon, so maybe we could give everyone concerned the time and space needed to get a good outcome for us all, rather than backing people into a corner to make a quick buy potentially bad, decision.

HSL’s email was perfectly reasonable imho. Time of needed folks, no point thumping our chests on here demanding answers or action if we don’t let folk figure out what questions need to be asked and what action should be taken.
Far too reasoned for this thread Matty 😀

[tamig]

I think the fan ownership is vastly overstated by some on here, also no way should money continued to be collected until HSL provide clarity as to what they intend to do with the cash

I’m happy for them to have my donations.

[superfurryhibby]

If you can prove a demonstrable appetite for fan ownership amongst the support I’d like to see it. We even have HSL board members on this thread saying that wasn’t their goal. I liked the thought of HSL having a voice and enjoying owning a share of the club but the idea of a fans collective being in control gives me the fear.

I think there is a significant difference between outright fan ownership and the purchase of a sizeable block which helps safeguard the future of the club. I don’t need to prove anything, the facts speak for themselves. That’s why I’m unimpressed by the dilution. It wasn’t part of the deal when fans were asked to put their hands in their pockets, was it?

[PaulSmith]

I’m happy for them to have my donations.

Spot on.

If your no happy then don’t contribute and I trust the directors at HSL to do the right thing and use the funds to benefit the club.

Talk of them stopping collections is nonsense.

[CapitalGreen]

I think there is a significant difference between outright fan ownership and the purchase of a sizeable block which helps safeguard the future of the club. I don’t need to prove anything, the facts speak for themselves. That’s why I’m unimpressed by the dilution. It wasn’t part of the deal when fans were asked to put their hands in their pockets, was it?

It certainly was part of the deal as all share purchases were of newly issued shares so when the rights issue was launched in 2015 all subsequent share purchases diluted the existing share capital.

People forget that in 2015 when the rights issue was launched it was open to all, not just HSL and therefore anytime someone purchased a share from the club it diluted the existing holdings, including HSL.

[FilipinoHibs]

What we are saving on the mortgage payments us equivalent to 75m shares and Ron's injection worth another 31m shares - all at 4p a share. So would take an eternity for HSL to make that contribution. Positive is that they have a voice and potentially able to block any unfavourable moves. Think Ron will want to keep at 67% mark as if requires any special resolution it only needs 9% of other holdings to side with him.

Not clear if HSL will be able to make further purchases. I doubt for reasons above he wants his holding diluted.

[green day]

I’m happy for them to have my donations.

Correct, and same here.

STF allowed his shareholding to be diluted and the money went to the club not him.

This was a unique set of circumstances, and certainly not one I have heard anywhere else.

That a new owner wouldn't want his multi million share purchase diluted is not exactly surprising.

Let's see where the meetings take us - and if it ends up with HSL using our DDs to buy other minority shares to up it's overall holding, THEN directing future cash to the club, even that works for me.

[kaimendhibs]

I have been aN HSL contributor from the start (apart from few months in huff about withdrawing loyalty points) and was always only interested in the money going to the managers budget.
Same now so will keep paying on that basis

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

[Clarence]

Have there been any comments from Ron or Leann specifically on HSL since the takeover? I get that it’s too early for conclusions but this is a pretty big change in there terms of the arrangement and I’d expect some sort of statement to indicate a collaborative approach. I don’t think there is anything nefarious going on but a bit of transparency would go a long way here.

[PaulSmith]

Have there been any comments from Ron or Leann specifically on HSL since the takeover? I get that it’s too early for conclusions but this is a pretty big change in there terms of the arrangement and I’d expect some sort of statement to indicate a collaborative approach. I don’t think there is anything nefarious going on but a bit of transparency would go a long way here.

Understandable comment but it’s been a matter of days since a significant regime change at Hibs.

Ask yourself why there wouldn’t be a collaborative approach, I cannot think of one good reason and it’s a shame that the empty vessels are once again undermining the club that they so profess to support.

[TrapperJohn]

FWIW I will continue with my DD.

Why?
HSL has been adding to the manager’s funds to help improve the squad. It has made a significant contribution. The last 4 years have been great and I for one want that to continue!

HSL didn’t reach the ‘keep-them-honest’ 25% plus. It may or may not hit that through the generosity of existing shareholder donations. But it can still have a significant voice...and through new and continued member contributions hopefully help the manager improve the squad.

For this to happen I expect that there will be member consultations of some form, changes in the articles of association, changes in the make up of the HSL board...but this takes time...but hopefully we will then have an organisation that reflects the desire of its members in their goal of helping Hibs prosper.

HFC board would be foolish to ignore it.

HSL is the most significant fans platform we have ever had!

[Capt Mainwaring]

I’m comfortable in retaining my Direct Debit contributions.

New owner or not it’s clear to me that regular fan contributions to support the football budget is necessary to compete with the type of financial support that Hearts and Aberdeen supporters are providing for their clubs

So I’ll be more than happy to see HSL change their primary objective to supporting the football budget if fan ownership not possible ( I was never hung up on that objective anyway)

[Radium]

HSL was going nowhere fast, hence the increasing measures they were trying to get people to donate, prize draws, strips etc. The reality of the situation is that there is just no real appetite for for a fan lead ownership scheme amongst the Hibs support. HSL has been in existence for nearly 4 and a half years and it generates a fraction of the income our neighbours scheme does.

RG injected nearly £4m into the club last week, making over £1m available straight away to use as we please plus clearing our debt which will uplift our budget by £0.5m per year. I’ll take that over 6 more years of debt repayments and zero prospect of cash injections under fan ownership.

It’s amazing how the word reality is used in discussions these days.

I don’t agree with your characterisation of HSL going nowhere but we are representative of opinions that exist.

Debt free is good. Still waiting to hear the plan though, not just speculation about new PA systems and indoor pitches

Where did I mention fan ownership? All that cash being well spent by the successful entrepreneur at Tynecastle?

There are lots of nuanced options being expressed which is why I put up a stand-alone post. I welcome lots of what has happened but given decades of good, bad and corrupt owners in Scottish football believe that strong fan involvement is needed.

My point is that the rug has been pulled out from under HSL so that there’s only one game in town.






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[superfurryhibby]

It certainly was part of the deal as all share purchases were of newly issued shares so when the rights issue was launched in 2015 all subsequent share purchases diluted the existing share capital.

People forget that in 2015 when the rights issue was launched it was open to all, not just HSL and therefore anytime someone purchased a share from the club it diluted the existing holdings, including HSL.

Yes, and the HSL/ small shareholders have seen hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of their stakeholding reduced at the stroke of a pen. Just because you can, doesn’t make it alright. Stinks of manoeuvring, but yeah it’s the fans fault ( except there’s no such thing as “ the fans”, is there) for not taking there chance when they had. Nice comfy stich up that is.

[blackpoolhibs]

The club was only bought over 5 minutes ago, FFS there are many things the club have to consider and many legal issues that will take time to get right before all the questions can be answered.

Not really bothered at all which day anyone met with Ron, what we need to do is wait until everything has been discussed with each party, and then we can dissect the statement and get our frillies in a twist then.

[PaulSmith]

The club was only bought over 5 minutes ago, FFS there are many things the club have to consider and many legal issues that will take time to get right before all the questions can be answered.

Not really bothered at all which day anyone met with Ron, what we need to do is wait until everything has been discussed with each party, and then we can dissect the statement and get our frillies in a twist then.

Well said. 👍

[bigwheel]

The club was only bought over 5 minutes ago, FFS there are many things the club have to consider and many legal issues that will take time to get right before all the questions can be answered.

Not really bothered at all which day anyone met with Ron, what we need to do is wait until everything has been discussed with each party, and then we can dissect the statement and get our frillies in a twist then.

Agreed. hSL should take time - speak to the club , the new owners, fans ...and once they have understood the various views and options - only then come out with something that is best for the club and most Motivating for the fans to get behind ...take some Time To get it right ...

[LeithMike]

[emoji106]I am sure these are pretty difficult times for Jim with the change in direction and I am sure he has a number of concerns as well. I'd just like to say thanks to him and show appreciation for the efforts that are put in by the HSL team for no financial reward. I think HSL is a great initiative and, while it is going to need to adapt, it is the second largest shareholder in Hibs and it is important that time is given so it can consider how it can best represent the fans going forward.

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[One Day Soon]

A new owner has bought the club:



our debt is written off
at a stroke our disposable revenue is increased by £500,000 per annum
an additional seven figure sum is now available for investment in whatever the Board choose
the new funding arrangement creates year on year stability, no dependence on external one-off lump sum injectons
the conundrum of what happens after Sir Tom is resolved and brings stability
the new owner states expressly that he wants stability and to carefully feel his way into the existing structure and practice at the club
the new owner is a successful businessman with a clear and transparent pedigree and cash in the bank
the new owner brings more than cash - he also has a range of other international connections with potential to bring a lot more to the club
the fans - through HSL or otherwise - now have the opportunity to use their contributions not simply to try to keep up with the neighbours but to push on past them


Only we, I think, could be finding negatives in this. There are so many opportunities here it is hard to know what to start with. I'm gagging for all of it.

[One Day Soon]

How else will he pump money into is then? I wouldn’t imagine he would make donations, share issue’s as I’ve mentioned or loans? Everyone went crazy about the floating charge and rightly so, but the floating charge does suggest he will eventually lend us money.


He and Sir Tom have already done it. The debt write-off gives us an additional £500,000 a year, every year.

[Pilrig_Sauzee]

I will continue with my DD. There may be some changes, but I genuinely believe those involved at the club are acting positively and in the long-term interests. Some healthy challenge and questioning is perfectly fair, but my take is that there is so much going on at this time (trying to land players for the new season) that some matters may not get the clarity and public confirmation we want, yet.

[lyonhibs]

A new owner has bought the club:



our debt is written off
at a stroke our disposable revenue is increased by £500,000 per annum
an additional seven figure sum is now available for investment in whatever the Board choose
the new funding arrangement creates year on year stability, no dependence on external one-off lump sum injectons
the conundrum of what happens after Sir Tom is resolved and brings stability
the new owner states expressly that he wants stability and to carefully feel his way into the existing structure and practice at the club
the new owner is a successful businessman with a clear and transparent pedigree and cash in the bank
the new owner brings more than cash - he also has a range of other international connections with potential to bring a lot more to the club
the fans - through HSL or otherwise - now have the opportunity to use their contributions not simply to try to keep up with the neighbours but to push on past them


Only we, I think, could be finding negatives in this. There are so many opportunities here it is hard to know what to start with. I'm gagging for all of it.

I thought it was just me struggling to find a real negative in all of this. :agree::agree:

[kevinc]

A new owner has bought the club:



our debt is written off
at a stroke our disposable revenue is increased by £500,000 per annum
an additional seven figure sum is now available for investment in whatever the Board choose
the new funding arrangement creates year on year stability, no dependence on external one-off lump sum injectons
the conundrum of what happens after Sir Tom is resolved and brings stability
the new owner states expressly that he wants stability and to carefully feel his way into the existing structure and practice at the club
the new owner is a successful businessman with a clear and transparent pedigree and cash in the bank
the new owner brings more than cash - he also has a range of other international connections with potential to bring a lot more to the club
the fans - through HSL or otherwise - now have the opportunity to use their contributions not simply to try to keep up with the neighbours but to push on past them


Only we, I think, could be finding negatives in this. There are so many opportunities here it is hard to know what to start with. I'm gagging for all of it.

Excellent post One Day Soon.

[Hibs4185]

He and Sir Tom have already done it. The debt write-off gives us an additional £500,000 a year, every year.

I wholeheartedly agree with your other post by the way and the £500,000 per year is massive for us.

That’s 2 or 3 players an a huge wage for us. Personally I’m delighted with the situation we find ourselves in.

I just want us to be protected in the future by laying the correct foundations whilst we can

[JohnMcM]

I think folk need to keep in mind that this is an unexpected development for HSL, and the way forward isn’t going to become clear after one or two brief meetings (or even long meetings).

I think patience is required, I don’t think stopping direct debits for the sake of waiting a little while - even a couple of months - is necessary.

There will be a few things to consider and I’d imagine HSL will want a good working relationship with Ron Gordon, so maybe we could give everyone concerned the time and space needed to get a good outcome for us all, rather than backing people into a corner to make a quick buy potentially bad, decision.

HSL’s email was perfectly reasonable imho. Time of needed folks, no point thumping our chests on here demanding answers or action if we don’t let folk figure out what questions need to be asked and what action should be taken.

In a nut-shell, this. :thumbsup:

[Pretty Boy]

With an extra £500 000 a year to play with due to the debt being cleared that's, in simplistic terms, 2 players on just under £5K a week. If HSL can come to an agreement with it's own board, members and the club then we could have further additional investment on top of that. That's quite exciting to me rather than anything to be unduly concerned about.

Obviously it would be good to know the identity of who is behind the nominee shareholdings for peace of mind should a blocking vote ever be required but that doesn't seem to be an immediate concern given RGs drive to improve infrastructure and youth development, rather than promising the earth in terms of 1st team investment. If there is any negative developments in future then having HSL continue, as opposed to have something starting from scratch, seems a positive as well.

As has been said in relative terms the takeover happened 2 minutes ago. HSL deserve a bit patience and to be given a chance to come up with a strategy to move forward, as a big minority shareholders they can't just disappear. Equally the new owner deserves time to get his feet under the table and to set out his strategy for moving forward. I don't understand how anyone could think every issue could have been ironed out in such a short time period.

[jacomo]

I think folk need to keep in mind that this is an unexpected development for HSL, and the way forward isn’t going to become clear after one or two brief meetings (or even long meetings).

I think patience is required, I don’t think stopping direct debits for the sake of waiting a little while - even a couple of months - is necessary.

There will be a few things to consider and I’d imagine HSL will want a good working relationship with Ron Gordon, so maybe we could give everyone concerned the time and space needed to get a good outcome for us all, rather than backing people into a corner to make a quick buy potentially bad, decision.

HSL’s email was perfectly reasonable imho. Time of needed folks, no point thumping our chests on here demanding answers or action if we don’t let folk figure out what questions need to be asked and what action should be taken.


Confirmation that HSL operates at arms length from the club, despite LD being on the board of both and initially marketed as a core part of the club’s strategy to encourage fan ownership.

Given that talks with Ron began in December, I am surprised that HSL seem to have been taken by surprise by the takeover.

[matty_f]

Confirmation that HSL operates at arms length from the club, despite LD being on the board of both and initially marketed as a core part of the club’s strategy to encourage fan ownership.

Given that talks with Ron began in December, I am surprised that HSL seem to have been taken by surprise by the takeover.

I would suggest that confidentiality agreements would have prevented LD disclosing this information.

Legally, I think there would be more than a hint of a rush of insider trading/information which is a criminal activity so I don’t think that this can be used as a stick to beat HSL or LD with.

[JohnMcM]

Confirmation that HSL operates at arms length from the club, despite LD being on the board of both and initially marketed as a core part of the club’s strategy to encourage fan ownership.

Given that talks with Ron began in December, I am surprised that HSL seem to have been taken by surprise by the takeover.

Maybe that had something to do with maintaining confidentiality?

Who knows?

I guess, given this is something that LD, STF, RP and our club as a whole were involved in, there must be a legitimate reason to help us understand why, or indeed if, HSL were apparently taken by surprise.

:flag:

[One Day Soon]

I wholeheartedly agree with your other post by the way and the £500,000 per year is massive for us.

That’s 2 or 3 players an a huge wage for us. Personally I’m delighted with the situation we find ourselves in.

I just want us to be protected in the future by laying the correct foundations whilst we can


Oh I agree completely. The time to make preparations for the unexpected is now, when we are in such a strong position. For me it's a luxury of choice as to what we do next and in what order.

I'd be for maintaining and strengthening HSL as a vehicle for focusing fan intervention whether financial or otherwise. The very worst case scenario is that HSL is now an established and growing body of supporters prepared to place regular additional funds into the playing budget, it holds a very significant stake in the club and it is in a position to sit down and discuss with the new owner the future nature of its relationship with the club in the context of changed circumstances in which the club is debt free and has all but completed its infrastructural development needs. That's the very worst case.

In those circumstances the starting point for the discussion with Ron should be - what agreement can we come to about how we continue to support the club financially in exchange for meaningful ways of enhancing the playing side and protecting the long term stability and viability of the club for future generations? We have money to put on the table here and with the debt gone it's worth more than it was a month ago because now it's not just helping to support the general playing squad, it's potentially helping deliver the next step up in class.

[Arch Stanton]

I would suggest that confidentiality agreements would have prevented LD disclosing this information.

Legally, I think there would be more than a hint of a rush of insider trading/information which is a criminal activity so I don’t think that this can be used as a stick to beat HSL or LD with.

Quite so, but personally I was expecting LD to swing into action immediately given that she was forewarned and is more than capable. I'm hoping that it will all come good on Monday though as, at present, HSL has all the appearance of a rudderless ship.

[PaulSmith]

Quite so, but personally I was expecting LD to swing into action immediately given that she was forewarned and is more than capable. I'm hoping that it will all come good on Monday though as, at present, HSL has all the appearance of a rudderless ship.

Disagree with the last sentence, it’s still actively collecting funds which will be safeguarded in a Bank account until there is an agreement with the members about how it will continue to financially benefit the club.

I’m unsure what the panic is to be honest, no one is losing anything and the risk of mass DD cancellations whilst in this state of flux is minimal.

[mutley]

I feel a bit in the dark here, I received the email from HSL, which didn't really say much to me. I have decided to keep my monthly DD going, and will re-assess when I hear the outcome of Monday's meeting.

What I think I would like to hear is that HSL is being re-branded, and the funds will be for the Manager to spend on players (not infrastructure), to ensure that Hibs are always going to be in a strong position come Transfer Market times.

but I will still wait and see!

[banchoryhibs]

I'll still be contributing but what I'd like to hear is some clarification on the level of long term protection the HSL shareholding provides in the event of a majority shareholder seeking to asset strip our Club.
The future for HSL could be as the provider of this protection plus an additional vehicle through which funds will be raised for the improvement of the playing side.
I hope it does not become a fairly docile shareholders association.

[Gloucester Hibs]

I'll still be contributing but what I'd like to hear is some clarification on the level of long term protection the HSL shareholding provides in the event of a majority shareholder seeking to asset strip our Club.
The future for HSL could be as the provider of this protection plus an additional vehicle through which funds will be raised for the improvement of the playing side.
I hope it does not become a fairly docile shareholders association.

Exactly my take on this also. I'll still be contributing in the meantime.

[Lago]

A new owner has bought the club:



our debt is written off
at a stroke our disposable revenue is increased by £500,000 per annum
an additional seven figure sum is now available for investment in whatever the Board choose
the new funding arrangement creates year on year stability, no dependence on external one-off lump sum injectons
the conundrum of what happens after Sir Tom is resolved and brings stability
the new owner states expressly that he wants stability and to carefully feel his way into the existing structure and practice at the club
the new owner is a successful businessman with a clear and transparent pedigree and cash in the bank
the new owner brings more than cash - he also has a range of other international connections with potential to bring a lot more to the club
the fans - through HSL or otherwise - now have the opportunity to use their contributions not simply to try to keep up with the neighbours but to push on past them


Only we, I think, could be finding negatives in this. There are so many opportunities here it is hard to know what to start with. I'm gagging for all of it.
Love your post, though it's too positive for some on here based on what I've read !!

[Gerard]

Love your post, though it's too positive for some on here based on what I've read !!

All these points are well made and are positive.
I hope that we will give RG a chance to show that he will do the right thing for our club.

[southsider]

Exactly my take on this also. I'll still be contributing in the meantime.
I took out a d/d @ £5 pr month for 5 members of my family so they would each get a share certificate. Am about half way towards the required amount. Are the certificates still going to be sent out once the figure is reached ?

[Gloucester Hibs]

I took out a d/d @ £5 pr month for 5 members of my family so they would each get a share certificate. Am about half way towards the required amount. Are the certificates still going to be sent out once the figure is reached ?

Not sure bud - a question for HSL. A few things still up in the air as it stands, let's see what they come back with next week.

[southsider]

Not sure bud - a question for HSL. A few things still up in the air as it stands, let's see what they come back with next week.
Cheers.

[Daniel 1875]

I took out a d/d @ £5 pr month for 5 members of my family so they would each get a share certificate. Am about half way towards the required amount. Are the certificates still going to be sent out once the figure is reached ?

There wasn't a 'share certificate' available by reaching £225 contributions to HSL as such, although there would have been a certificate showing full membership of HSL once contributions of £225 was reached.

Whether HSL will reignite as a different membership scheme now there are no shares to be purchased with the contributions remains to be seen and hopefully there will be some clarity re next steps after the HSL board meeting next week.

There may still be a certificate of membership available once contributions reach £225 ie you become a 'full member' of the scheme (whatever it looks like after the HSL board meeting), but until the board of HSL and Hibernian decide on next steps that is yet to be decided.

[Big_Franck]

A new owner has bought the club:



our debt is written off
at a stroke our disposable revenue is increased by £500,000 per annum
an additional seven figure sum is now available for investment in whatever the Board choose
the new funding arrangement creates year on year stability, no dependence on external one-off lump sum injectons
the conundrum of what happens after Sir Tom is resolved and brings stability
the new owner states expressly that he wants stability and to carefully feel his way into the existing structure and practice at the club
the new owner is a successful businessman with a clear and transparent pedigree and cash in the bank
the new owner brings more than cash - he also has a range of other international connections with potential to bring a lot more to the club
the fans - through HSL or otherwise - now have the opportunity to use their contributions not simply to try to keep up with the neighbours but to push on past them


Only we, I think, could be finding negatives in this. There are so many opportunities here it is hard to know what to start with. I'm gagging for all of it.

Best post on the thread. Seems like there will always be a very loud but very small minority of Hibs fans who will always be negative. Must be a nightmare knowing people like that.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Best post on the thread. Seems like there will always be a very loud but very small minority of Hibs fans who will always be negative. Must be a nightmare knowing people like that.

Aside from a couple of posters who have veered over the line in terms of respectful debate, most of what you would call negativity has been people who have probably donated hundreds or thousands to HSL wondering and worrying about what comes next. And they have every right to in my opinion.

[OfficialHSL]

Oh I agree completely. The time to make preparations for the unexpected is now, when we are in such a strong position. For me it's a luxury of choice as to what we do next and in what order.

I'd be for maintaining and strengthening HSL as a vehicle for focusing fan intervention whether financial or otherwise. The very worst case scenario is that HSL is now an established and growing body of supporters prepared to place regular additional funds into the playing budget, it holds a very significant stake in the club and it is in a position to sit down and discuss with the new owner the future nature of its relationship with the club in the context of changed circumstances in which the club is debt free and has all but completed its infrastructural development needs. That's the very worst case.

In those circumstances the starting point for the discussion with Ron should be - what agreement can we come to about how we continue to support the club financially in exchange for meaningful ways of enhancing the playing side and protecting the long term stability and viability of the club for future generations? We have money to put on the table here and with the debt gone it's worth more than it was a month ago because now it's not just helping to support the general playing squad, it's potentially helping deliver the next step up in class.

OK, hands up, we may be biased but this is a very sensible post.


Hibernian Supporters

[OfficialHSL]

Quite so, but personally I was expecting LD to swing into action immediately given that she was forewarned and is more than capable. I'm hoping that it will all come good on Monday though as, at present, HSL has all the appearance of a rudderless ship.

Arch Stanton

Are you on board our ship ?


Hibernian Supporters

[OfficialHSL]

I took out a d/d @ £5 pr month for 5 members of my family so they would each get a share certificate. Am about half way towards the required amount. Are the certificates still going to be sent out once the figure is reached ?

Southsider

Yes, once each of the accounts reach a balance of 1875 Francks you will be able to download your Membership Certificate. This Membership Certificate is proof that you are the part owner, along with your fellow Members, of the entity that is a part owner of our Club. Indeed, Hibernian Supporters is now the only means by which supporters can an ownership stake in our Club.


Hibernian Supporters

[OfficialHSL]

Aside from a couple of posters who have veered over the line in terms of respectful debate, most of what you would call negativity has been people who have probably donated hundreds or thousands to HSL wondering and worrying about what comes next. And they have every right to in my opinion.

Pagan Hibernia

We totally understand this sentiment but can we please say to these people that you are thinking about, don't worry and please bear with us.

The landscape may have changed but our primary objectives have not. We have a little work in front of us to clarify things in the longer term, but, we are a Member led organisation and our Members will be kept fully informed. One thing we won't be doing is handing their money to Hearts.



Hibernian Supporters

[Arch Stanton]

Arch Stanton

Are you on board our ship ?


Hibernian Supporters

Indeed, I have a contractual relationship with HSL. Something you appear to be very relaxed about.

[HibbySpurs]

A new owner has bought the club:



our debt is written off
at a stroke our disposable revenue is increased by £500,000 per annum
an additional seven figure sum is now available for investment in whatever the Board choose
the new funding arrangement creates year on year stability, no dependence on external one-off lump sum injectons
the conundrum of what happens after Sir Tom is resolved and brings stability
the new owner states expressly that he wants stability and to carefully feel his way into the existing structure and practice at the club
the new owner is a successful businessman with a clear and transparent pedigree and cash in the bank
the new owner brings more than cash - he also has a range of other international connections with potential to bring a lot more to the club
the fans - through HSL or otherwise - now have the opportunity to use their contributions not simply to try to keep up with the neighbours but to push on past them


Only we, I think, could be finding negatives in this. There are so many opportunities here it is hard to know what to start with. I'm gagging for all of it.

Top post 10/10.

The only thing I will take issue with is your very last point...

Try to keep up with the neighbours and push on pat them?

Haven’t you seen the last two seasons final league tables?? 👍🇳🇬

[tamig]

Indeed, I have a contractual relationship with HSL. Something you appear to be very relaxed about.

Lighten up man.

[Arch Stanton]

Lighten up man.


I do my very best not to reply to argumentative posts.


OOps. :greengrin

[OfficialHSL]

Indeed, I have a contractual relationship with HSL. Something you appear to be very relaxed about.

Arch Stanton

Thank you and rest assured we are very grateful that you are on board.

We can assure you that we are not at all rudderless. While the path to our desired destination may have changed as a result of a changed landscape we will continue to pursue our primary objectives. Taking a little time to engage with the sat nav isn't a waste of time but a wise use of our time.

Delighted to address any concerns that you have.

Hibernian Supporters

[Arch Stanton]

Arch Stanton

Thank you and rest assured we are very grateful that you are on board.

We can assure you that we are not at all rudderless. While the path to our desired destination may have changed as a result of a changed landscape we will continue to pursue our primary objectives. Taking a little time to engage with the sat nav isn't a waste of time but a wise use of our time.

Delighted to address any concerns that you have.

Hibernian Supporters

Mainly I was wondering if there would be any member consultation before setting your objectives. A 'member led' organisation you said.

[One Day Soon]

Top post 10/10.

The only thing I will take issue with is your very last point...

Try to keep up with the neighbours and push on pat them?

Haven’t you seen the last two seasons final league tables?? 👍🇳🇬


I was referring to pushing on past them in revenue terms.

[PaulSmith]

Mainly I was wondering if there would be any member consultation before setting your objectives. A 'member led' organisation you said.

Stop rabble rousing, give it a rest and allow the elected directors to do their job.

[Cheshire Hibby]

Cheshire Hibby

It's not boring and we appreciate your patience. While our Articles are clear and we continue to pursue our primary objective we have worked hard to build your trust and do not intend to lose that trust. We are mindful that the landscape has changed and just for a temporary period we will not be directing any funds anywhere without consulting our Members. Hibernian Supporters is the second largest shareholder in the Club and is here to stay and grow.
Further clarity of course is required and will be given.

Hibernian Supporters

Official HSL

More than happy to still be on board and glad to hear that consultation with members and clarity on future direction will follow. For my part, as my original post said, I am happy for my small monthly contribution to be retained at present and my preference is that it continues to be put towards the player budget.

Whilst it is for other members to make their mind up about keeping up contributions and to express their views on how it should be used, it would appear that many views on here suggest the player budget remains popular.

[Arch Stanton]

Stop rabble rousing, give it a rest and allow the elected directors to do their job.

There was nothing rabble rousing about it, it was perfectly fair comment. You're the one coming out with jibes.

[PaulSmith]

There was nothing rabble rousing about it, it was perfectly fair comment. You're the one coming out with jibes.

You quoted your “contract” with HSL as if there’s some legal action that you’d take if you weren’t satisfied with the direction of travel.

You also cast doubt on their commitment to be “member led”.

Maybe clarify what you meant and I will happily retract my comment.

[Arch Stanton]

Cheshire Hibby

It's not boring and we appreciate your patience. While our Articles are clear and we continue to pursue our primary objective we have worked hard to build your trust and do not intend to lose that trust. We are mindful that the landscape has changed and just for a temporary period we will not be directing any funds anywhere without consulting our Members. Hibernian Supporters is the second largest shareholder in the Club and is here to stay and grow.
Further clarity of course is required and will be given.

Hibernian Supporters

Jim, I'm sorry if I've been giving you a hard time of it but I just can't get my head around the bit in bold.

Surely the articles and objectives must have been turned on their head by the takeover. As the OP says, there are no shares available to purchase which was the whole raison d'aitre for HSL.

I appreciate that there are other avenues for you to accumulate more shares - which I assume are needed for HSL to reach the all important 25% and us getting a board member, and I support this. But, while fan consultation may not be possible I do think there needs to be transparency here. What exactly do you see as your objectives and how are you to achieve them.

[Arch Stanton]

You quoted your “contract” with HSL as if there’s some legal action that you’d take if you weren’t satisfied with the direction of travel.

You also cast doubt on their commitment to be “member led”.

Maybe clarify what you meant and I will happily retract my comment.

As a member of HSL I would be daft to take legal action against myself in effect. Nothing wrong with asserting my status I don't think. And nothing wrong with reminding HSL that they have obligations to members when considering a change of direction, albeit enforced.

I didn't cast doubt about commitment at all - I pointed out what I saw as a contradiction in the post. I personally would have wished for more transparency at the very least. I would like to have known what is to be discussed on Monday as I don't see any need for secrecy.

[1875STEVE]

I think folk need to keep in mind that this is an unexpected development for HSL, and the way forward isn’t going to become clear after one or two brief meetings (or even long meetings).

I think patience is required, I don’t think stopping direct debits for the sake of waiting a little while - even a couple of months - is necessary.

There will be a few things to consider and I’d imagine HSL will want a good working relationship with Ron Gordon, so maybe we could give everyone concerned the time and space needed to get a good outcome for us all, rather than backing people into a corner to make a quick buy potentially bad, decision.

HSL’s email was perfectly reasonable imho. Time of needed folks, no point thumping our chests on here demanding answers or action if we don’t let folk figure out what questions need to be asked and what action should be taken.

Cracking post.

[emerald green]

Apologies if the following question has been answered already on this thread, I haven't read through it all.

What percentage of shares in Hibs does HSL currently own? i.e. how close is that percentage to the all important 25.1%?

[Lago]

Apologies if the following question has been answered already on this thread, I haven't read through it all.

What percentage of shares in Hibs does HSL currently own? i.e. how close is that percentage to the all important 25.1%?

Well what ever it is any further increase to 51% fan ownership is dead according to thread on meeting Ron.

[A Hi-Bee]

Well what ever it is any further increase to 51% fan ownership is dead according to thread on meeting Ron.

Have never been fussed with this 51% "fan ownership" (Were would future funding come from if this was the case?)
I am still relaxed about HSL and hope that whatever form it takes it keeps putting cash into the playing budget.
Only way we can compete with the likes of the sheep and the manky ones from the other side is by funding more from us supporters, dont care what format this takes just as long as the manager can get better quality players into Hibs.

[StevieC]

Hibernian Supporters

Jim

I have tried messaging you about a payment issue, but your inbox is full.

Can you clear it and contact me please.

[tamig]

Well what ever it is any further increase to 51% fan ownership is dead according to thread on meeting Ron.

Jim made it clear in his email that 25.1% was the main target. A lot of HSL members were happy with that. The 51% was a flight of fancy imo and not a position too many - certainly ones I’ve chatted with - had any real appetite for. Were you wanting HSL/the fans to own 51%?

[Golden Bear]

I'm not a member of HSL so maybe I should just butt out but today is the first time I've see the magical 51% as being the real target for outright fan ownership

God forbid going by the shenanigans we've seen on here recently! 😄😄

[Glory Lurker]

I'm not a member of HSL so maybe I should just butt out but today is the first time I've see the magical 51% as being the real target for outright fan ownership

God forbid going by the shenanigans we've seen on here recently! 😄😄

:greengrin:agree: And the lovely thing is that eventually that’s where Hearts are going to end up. Delicious!

[Gloucester Hibs]

:greengrin:agree: And the lovely thing is that eventually that’s where Hearts are going to end up. Delicious!

Let the bun fight commence!

[Lago]

Jim made it clear in his email that 25.1% was the main target. A lot of HSL members were happy with that. The 51% was a flight of fancy imo and not a position too many - certainly ones I’ve chatted with - had any real appetite for. Were you wanting HSL/the fans to own 51%?
No I don't, I've said before that fan ownership is not for me, to be frank I think HSL has fallen between 2 stools, buy shares/provide funds for players ?
I would prefer a straight forward system as per Aberdeen, no ambiguity.

[Lago]

I'm not a member of HSL so maybe I should just butt out but today is the first time I've see the magical 51% as being the real target for outright fan ownership

God forbid going by the shenanigans we've seen on here recently! 😄😄
This

[Pagan Hibernia]

Well what ever it is any further increase to 51% fan ownership is dead according to thread on meeting Ron.

Few, if any, were ever interested in 51% majority ownership. For starters, the second individual supporter shareholders bought shares, then it became impossible for HSL to achieve 51%. It was never a realistic target, or even an abstract target.

The 25.1% was important to many of us and still is.

[lord bunberry]

HSL or whatever it’s called now is dead in its current form. The email we received today was full of bluster, but lacking in any detail. I’m quite happy to continue my direct debit, but clarity needs to be brought to the people donating. Whichever way it goes there’s going to be fans either walking away or joining up. My thoughts would be to scrap the whole thing and start again with a rewards scheme. HSL has never properly caught on with fans, not through the want of trying, but it’s been met with scepticism from certain groups from day one. Time to start afresh imo.

[CapitalGreen]

Maybe the directors could let us know if we are still buying shares or not?

HSL is no longer buying shares as there is no shares available to buy.

[jacomo]

HSL is no longer buying shares as there is no shares available to buy.


Thanks I deleted my post as I have now seen the email and belatedly read it.

I think this is a bit of a mess tbh but hope all will be cleared up on Monday.

[Lago]

HSL or whatever it’s called now is dead in its current form. The email we received today was full of bluster, but lacking in any detail. I’m quite happy to continue my direct debit, but clarity needs to be brought to the people donating. Whichever way it goes there’s going to be fans either walking away or joining up. My thoughts would be to scrap the whole thing and start again with a rewards scheme. HSL has never properly caught on with fans, not through the want of trying, but it’s been met with scepticism from certain groups from day one. Time to start afresh imo.

This

[PaulSmith]

HSL is no longer buying shares as there is no shares available to buy.

Well not strictly true is it, if I want to sell my shares to HSL then what is there stopping me from doing exactly that?

[Rocky]

Well not strictly true is it, if I want to sell my shares to HSL then what is there stopping me from doing exactly that?

I'd like to think the articles of association prevent HSL from handing over my contributions to you

[CapitalGreen]

Well not strictly true is it, if I want to sell my shares to HSL then what is there stopping me from doing exactly that?

Nothing stopping you from offering them to HSL but HSL could not buy them off you at present.

HSL have said all money raised will be given to the club to be added to the managers budget. If they were to give you money for your shares that would contravene that.

[Purple & Green]

Well not strictly true is it, if I want to sell my shares to HSL then what is there stopping me from doing exactly that?

But that money won’t benefit hibs, just you. HSL is a vehicle to put money into hibs, not to buy shares - there’s a subtle distinction.

[CapitalGreen]

But that money won’t benefit hibs, just you. HSL is a vehicle to put money into hibs, not to buy shares - there’s a subtle distinction.

The Articles of Association for HSL state the Primary Objective as buying and holding shares in the club.

Funding the club is only listed as a secondary objective.

[Purple & Green]

The Articles of Association for HSL state the Primary Objective as buying and holding shares in the club.

Funding the club is only listed as a secondary objective.

Have a look at 4.1 - it says subscribe rather than buy - which I think is the pertinent distinction.

[Tiny_Tim]

I have put money into Hsl and I am not happy. I was paying in on the basis of fan ownership but farmer Tom gave up. I’m well pissed off.

[CapitalGreen]

Have a look at 4.1 - it says subscribe rather than buy - which I think is the pertinent distinction.

To subscribe in this context means an agreed intention to buy shares prior to their issue.

[Purple & Green]

I think this highlights the confusion on hsl - but this is still on the front page of the website:

There is strength in solidarity. The more funds we raise, the more shares we can buy. Hibernian Supporters Limited (HSL) has a legally binding agreement with the Club that enables us to buy shares with our funds. This agreement is open-ended, meaning it has no closing date. We do however want to move faster. We have the opportunity to own a meaningful stake in our Club - let’s take it.

I feel sorry for JA having to sort this out, I’m a happy donator but I don’t see a way forward for the hsl in anything like it’s current form.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I have put money into Hsl and I am not happy. I was paying in on the basis of fan ownership but farmer Tom gave up. I’m well pissed off.

🚩

[One Day Soon]

I have put money into Hsl and I am not happy. I was paying in on the basis of fan ownership but farmer Tom gave up. I’m well pissed off.

It's going to another bad season for Hearts I predict.

[Pagan Hibernia]

It's going to another bad season for Hearts I predict.

they don’t even try to be subtle anymore do they

[Purple & Green]

To subscribe in this context means an agreed intention to buy shares prior to their issue.

My understanding was always that HSL was a vehicle for funds to go into Hibs in exchange for shares. Ergo, they can’t buy shares where a third party would benefit. I don’t think they could even donate to the club in exchange for gifts of shares as per the a of a.

Anything that you and I aren’t clear about (but there’s a multitude of differing perceptions on this thread) is a failure of hsl to get the message out. That I do find rather gutting because I think the fans who have been involved have worked really hard to make this work.

[Rocky]

My understanding was always that HSL was a vehicle for funds to go into Hibs in exchange for shares. Ergo, they can’t buy shares where a third party would benefit. I don’t think they could even donate to the club in exchange for gifts of shares as per the a of a.

Anything that you and I aren’t clear about (but there’s a multitude of differing perceptions on this thread) is a failure of hsl to get the message out. That I do find rather gutting because I think the fans who have been involved have worked really hard to make this work.

Maybe we could just give them a chance to work out the details? There's a lot of moaning about HSL not being on the front foot on this. What on earth makes anyone think that HSL should have known in advance? They're a minority shareholder like I am, I didn't hear about this deal till 1st July, why would HSL hear about it before then? Through breach of confidentiality by board members? Through sharing insider information on a pending transaction? The latter is definitely illegal, the former must be close to it.

[Radium]

Think there will be many questions that HSL will now need to sort out around what to do with the funds and they deserve the time to sort it out.

A vehicle to pump cash into the club on an altruistic basis is not where we should go. IMHO

If the board wants cash for the training centre or just additional funds set up a stand-alone scheme similar to Aber-dna and give something back to those contributing.

I do think it would be good for the club to sort out the ‘pony up ‘statement. The lack of clarity early on didn’t help HSL early on




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tamig]

HSL or whatever it’s called now is dead in its current form. The email we received today was full of bluster, but lacking in any detail. I’m quite happy to continue my direct debit, but clarity needs to be brought to the people donating. Whichever way it goes there’s going to be fans either walking away or joining up. My thoughts would be to scrap the whole thing and start again with a rewards scheme. HSL has never properly caught on with fans, not through the want of trying, but it’s been met with scepticism from certain groups from day one. Time to start afresh imo.
So you got the email but did you read it?

[Purple & Green]

Maybe we could just give them a chance to work out the details? There's a lot of moaning about HSL not being on the front foot on this. What on earth makes anyone think that HSL should have known in advance? They're a minority shareholder like I am, I didn't hear about this deal till 1st July, why would HSL hear about it before then? Through breach of confidentiality by board members? Through sharing insider information on a pending transaction? The latter is definitely illegal, the former must be close to it.

And if you are a board member of both the football club, and HSL where do your legal responsibilities lie. Just musing out loud. Awkward though regardless.

[Rocky]

And if you are a board member of both the football club, and HSL where do your legal responsibilities lie. Just musing out loud. Awkward though regardless.

Agree it's awkward but I'd say their first responsibility is to respect the confidentiality of information they gather whilst fulfilling the duties of either role. If LD had briefed HSL before me I'm sure I'd have legal recourse against her / them for some kind of insider information breach.

[matty_f]

I have put money into Hsl and I am not happy. I was paying in on the basis of fan ownership but farmer Tom gave up. I’m well pissed off.
Are you, aye?

See ya, Duncan!

[graciehfc]

Surely the HSL money would now be spent in a better way for
The club !! I.e not buying shares but actually going to a fund for wages or transfers !!! I may be a little behind this post but I would be happier knowing my money is building the club/ squad rather than lining someone’s pockets and taking years to actually make its way to the club finances GGTTH

[matty_f]

Surely the HSL money would now be spent in a better way for
The club !! I.e not buying shares but actually going to a fund for wages or transfers !!! I may be a little behind this post but I would be happier knowing my money is building the club/ squad rather than lining someone’s pockets and taking years to actually make its way to the club finances GGTTH

That’s what happens already.

The money doesn’t line anyone’s pockets, it all goes to the club.

[marinello59]

Surely the HSL money would now be spent in a better way for
The club !! I.e not buying shares but actually going to a fund for wages or transfers !!! I may be a little behind this post but I would be happier knowing my money is building the club/ squad rather than lining someone’s pockets and taking years to actually make its way to the club finances GGTTH

The money from HSL went straight in to the managers fund.

[graciehfc]

That’s what happens already.

The money doesn’t line anyone’s pockets, it all goes to the club.

Apologies

Just when I read that people were discussing the fan ownership saying it would never happen I thought they where withdrawing there funds

[lord bunberry]

So you got the email but did you read it?
Yes.

[stokesmessiah]

I have contributed to HSL off and on, I am now going to do it on a regular basis.

To the people moaning about it. It’s our club, and spending a tenner which is half a round on a monthly basis....your welcome to it, don’t care f you buy shares or use it to build infrastructure.

[stokesmessiah]

Provided I can

[OfficialHSL]

Jim, I'm sorry if I've been giving you a hard time of it but I just can't get my head around the bit in bold.

Surely the articles and objectives must have been turned on their head by the takeover. As the OP says, there are no shares available to purchase which was the whole raison d'aitre for HSL.

I appreciate that there are other avenues for you to accumulate more shares - which I assume are needed for HSL to reach the all important 25% and us getting a board member, and I support this. But, while fan consultation may not be possible I do think there needs to be transparency here. What exactly do you see as your objectives and how are you to achieve them.

Arch Stanton ( sorry I don't know your name )

No apology required, you haven't been giving me a hard time at all. People who know me know that I am thick skinned, others who don't know me perhaps feel I am still carrying a little puppy fat.

On a more serious note I don't know why you would assume that fan consultation is not possible. Hibernian Supporters isn't some distant third party or an imaginary character. Hibernian Supporters is you, and every one of your fellow supporters who have so generously donated and become owners of the Company. Essentially it's a holding Company similar to Bydand Sports LLC or H F C Holdings Ltd in as much it is a Company that owns the shares in another Company. The technical difference is that HFC Holdings is a Company Ltd by shares and Hibernian Supporters Ltd is a Company ltd by guarantee. The point I am making here is that I and my fellow Directors are to be guided and instructed by you and your fellow Members.

Of course the transaction has given us some additional tasks to consider and consulting with you is just one of them. There are however practical issues that we need to be mindful of when arranging the consultation and the most obvious one is that we are bang in the middle of July when most people in Scotland are away with their bucket and spades.

I don't think I have seen a question on here that can't be answered. I have however seen many posts, which I have taken to be well intended, but none the less, have only resulted in causing confusion and in many, many cases giving out completely wrong information.

As many on here have commented, the recent transaction has focussed attention on Hibernian Supporters which is great. We are now a well established entity. We are the second largest shareholder in the club backed by really good people such as yourself. Now, more than ever we need to demonstrate that we are a truly fan led organisation with our Clubs best intentions at heart. Our principal shareholder has clearly indicated that he wants us all to work together for the common good. Can I add that our infrastructure is such that we can easily cope with all the varying opinions and requirements of our Members. I will try and work my way through as many other posts as I can.

Jim

[Brightside]

So. Where is the money donated to HSL now going.

[matty_f]

So. Where is the money donated to HSL now going.

Would guess that it’ll be in the bank until HSL decide the way forward.

[Brightside]

Would guess that it’ll be in the bank until HSL decide the way forward.

I think this is the issue. They surely know what they have agreed by now?

[offshorehibby]

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere but it's the first time i've seen it. Interview with RG, breifly touches on HSL this morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=San1g6fyVMU&feature=em-uploademail

[blackpoolhibs]

I think this is the issue. They surely know what they have agreed by now?

I'd imagine they will let us know when all parties have discussed it and came to a decision?

Unless you think they are delaying it for some sinister reason?

[Eyrie]

I think this is the issue. They surely know what they have agreed by now?

Given that HSL was as much in the dark about the takeover as any other shareholder (eg myself) until the official announcement I'd be more concerned if they rushed into a decision this early.

I'm willing to wait whilst the HSL directors properly consider the options and preferably put two or three to us members to vote on.

[Spike Mandela]

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere but it's the first time i've seen it. Interview with RG, breifly touches on HSL this morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=San1g6fyVMU&feature=em-uploademail

Sure says all the right things.:thumbsup:

[matty_f]

I think this is the issue. They surely know what they have agreed by now?

You think?

Just my opinion and my own guesswork on it but i think there is a lot Moore to consider that can be sorted in one or two meetings.

For instance:

Do HSL keep some money back in the back to protect its shareholding should there be another share issue? This is probably a good idea and a responsible thing to do.

Do HSL get its members to agree that the money can just be donated to the club, and if so, should there be limitations put on where the club can spend it?

Do HSL buy shares from existing shareholders to increase its holding?

If it goes to a vote, who gets to vote - full members or anyone contributing?

That took about ten seconds to come up with that list so I think if someone was to sit and look forensically at the situation, many more questions and considerations would come up.

I think it’s totally unreasonable to expect there to be a straightforward “here’s what we’re doing going forward” message at this point in time.

We do know that HSL has to continue, though, as we own a significant part of the club. People cancelling contributions isn’t going to be helpful regardless of the path HSL eventually takes, and to my mind, the situation remains that the club is healthiest when we as a support are able to increase its income, however that looks.

[Radium]

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere but it's the first time i've seen it. Interview with RG, breifly touches on HSL this morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=San1g6fyVMU&feature=em-uploademail

In fairness to RG, the interviewer tried to suggest that the transaction would not be a surprise to HSL but he confirmed what we know: that he met them on the he took over and as he put it they are ‘refining and defining’ how they will work together.

Both sides it seems are asking for time to sort the relationship out, so lets wait and see.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DaveF]

So. Where is the money donated to HSL now going.

It's being held in the HSL bank account. That was crystal clear in the email sent on Thursday to HSL Members.

[OfficialHSL]

So. Where is the money donated to HSL now going.

Underscore

Hibernian Supporters bank account.



Hibernian Supporters

[OfficialHSL]

I think this is the issue. They surely know what they have agreed by now?


Not sure what you mean when you say "they" ?

Do you mind if we ask if you are a Member ?


Hibernian Supporters

[Brightside]

You think?

Just my opinion and my own guesswork on it but i think there is a lot Moore to consider that can be sorted in one or two meetings.

For instance:

Do HSL keep some money back in the back to protect its shareholding should there be another share issue? This is probably a good idea and a responsible thing to do.

Do HSL get its members to agree that the money can just be donated to the club, and if so, should there be limitations put on where the club can spend it?

Do HSL buy shares from existing shareholders to increase its holding?

If it goes to a vote, who gets to vote - full members or anyone contributing?

That took about ten seconds to come up with that list so I think if someone was to sit and look forensically at the situation, many more questions and considerations would come up.

I think it’s totally unreasonable to expect there to be a straightforward “here’s what we’re doing going forward” message at this point in time.

We do know that HSL has to continue, though, as we own a significant part of the club. People cancelling contributions isn’t going to be helpful regardless of the path HSL eventually takes, and to my mind, the situation remains that the club is healthiest when we as a support are able to increase its income, however that looks.

The purpose of HSL has to now be reviewed. Wether people like it or not it failed in its original requirement. If it’s now going to be a straightforward player budget fund then let’s get on with it and they can present a big cheque to Hibs every 6 months.

[DaveF]

The purpose of HSL has to now be reviewed. Wether people like it or not it failed in its original requirement. If it’s now going to be a straightforward player budget fund then let’s get on with it and they can present a big cheque to Hibs every 6 months.

Everyone knows it will change but most - not you it seems - are willing to give the directors time to sort the future path out.

[OfficialHSL]

Given that HSL was as much in the dark about the takeover as any other shareholder (eg myself) until the official announcement I'd be more concerned if they rushed into a decision this early.

I'm willing to wait whilst the HSL directors properly consider the options and preferably put two or three to us members to vote on.

Eyrie

Thank you for your support. Not only will we be considering options we are hoping that you and your fellow Members will help us to shape and develop those options. An earlier post referred to proper consultation and that's absolutely appropriate.

Hibernian Supporters is here to grow and only this morning we received a kind invitation from the Supporters Association at the Hibs Club to come along and speak to Members. As usual at such events we will be hoping to attract new Members seeking to have an ownership stake.


Hibernian Supporters

[Brightside]

Not sure what you mean when you say "they" ?

Do you mind if we ask if you are a Member ?


Hibernian Supporters

I’ve donated. But I don’t pay monthly. I do donate monthly to the foundation though

[Mikey]

Everyone knows it will change but most - not you it seems - are willing to give the directors time to sort the future path out.

Yep. It needs to be watertight this time so the Ponzi Scheme arse holes don't get an opening they can exploit.

All that's happening at the moment is that funds are building up in the bank account and that's probably fine with most folk. It won't be wasted.

[OfficialHSL]

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere but it's the first time i've seen it. Interview with RG, breifly touches on HSL this morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=San1g6fyVMU&feature=em-uploademail

We trust that this confirms what we have been saying thus far.

At a person level please note that Ron confirms that we met twice.


Jim

[OfficialHSL]

I’ve donated. But I don’t pay monthly. I do donate monthly to the foundation though

Underscore

Thank you for your support to date.

In terms of "they", not sure what you were meaning ?



Hibernian Supporters

[OfficialHSL]

You think?

Just my opinion and my own guesswork on it but i think there is a lot Moore to consider that can be sorted in one or two meetings.

For instance:

Do HSL keep some money back in the back to protect its shareholding should there be another share issue? This is probably a good idea and a responsible thing to do.

Do HSL get its members to agree that the money can just be donated to the club, and if so, should there be limitations put on where the club can spend it?

Do HSL buy shares from existing shareholders to increase its holding?

If it goes to a vote, who gets to vote - full members or anyone contributing?

That took about ten seconds to come up with that list so I think if someone was to sit and look forensically at the situation, many more questions and considerations would come up.

I think it’s totally unreasonable to expect there to be a straightforward “here’s what we’re doing going forward” message at this point in time.

We do know that HSL has to continue, though, as we own a significant part of the club. People cancelling contributions isn’t going to be helpful regardless of the path HSL eventually takes, and to my mind, the situation remains that the club is healthiest when we as a support are able to increase its income, however that looks.

Matty

Thank you for your thoughts on this, as usual fair minded and balanced. You must be murder to live with.

We don't want to run the risk the same fate as another person who said that something would be "easy" but, while there are jobs to do, the work in front of us can be fairly easy and straight forward, it will just take a little time.

The reason we say this is that Hibernian Supporters is already here and established. We would like to think we enjoy the support and trust of our Members. But most of all, our infrastructure is such that we are in the lucky position of being able to accommodate the differing opinions and priorities of all our Members.

Our average monthly premium is £14 per month. Even if it takes us 2 months to deal with these changed circumstances we are talking about £28. Whatever happens we will not be handing £28 to Hearts. We hope we have done enough in the last four years to earn our Members' patience.



Hibernian Supporters

[1875STEVE]

So HSL has the 20% needed to get on the board then. That's after the takeover.

HSL was it HSL that bought the 70k worth of shares just before the takeover? Did that take us over the 20% and just how close did we get to 25% before the takeover?

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibernian/interview-sir-tom-farmer-hibs-reluctant-saviour-reveals-his-pride-and-a-lack-of-animosity-towards-wallace-mercer-1-4964201/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk

[tamig]

The purpose of HSL has to now be reviewed. Wether people like it or not it failed in its original requirement. If it’s now going to be a straightforward player budget fund then let’s get on with it and they can present a big cheque to Hibs every 6 months.

What a strange set of posts from you. Its like you haven’t read anything on the thread. The takeover has meant that the goalposts have now been moved. HSL recognise that, the members know that and most folk on the thread know that. The info is all here. As Matty mentioned there are quite a few options to consider as to what happens next. That all needs discussing and agreeing. Not a five minute job.

[One Day Soon]

Yep. It needs to be watertight this time so the Ponzi Scheme arse holes don't get an opening they can exploit.

All that's happening at the moment is that funds are building up in the bank account and that's probably fine with most folk. It won't be wasted.


I think it's critically important that 'Ponzi Scheme ********s' becomes an official .net term alongside Bedwetters and Happy Clappers.

[Brightside]

What a strange set of posts from you. Its like you haven’t read anything on the thread. The takeover has meant that the goalposts have now been moved. HSL recognise that, the members know that and most folk on the thread know that. The info is all here. As Matty mentioned there are quite a few options to consider as to what happens next. That all needs discussing and agreeing. Not a five minute job.

Yep. Didn’t read the thread. Just ducked in, and dealing with an espresso martini headache on holiday. I will await the news with interest.

[tamig]

Yep. Didn’t read the thread. Just ducked in, and dealing with an espresso martini headache on holiday. I will await the news with interest.

Good stuff. We are all keen to see whats next but need to have some patience.

[wallpaperman]

Matty

Thank you for your thoughts on this, as usual fair minded and balanced. You must be murder to live with.

We don't want to run the risk the same fate as another person who said that something would be "easy" but, while there are jobs to do, the work in front of us can be fairly easy and straight forward, it will just take a little time.

The reason we say this is that Hibernian Supporters is already here and established. We would like to think we enjoy the support and trust of our Members. But most of all, our infrastructure is such that we are in the lucky position of being able to accommodate the differing opinions and priorities of all our Members.

Our average monthly premium is £14 per month. Even if it takes us 2 months to deal with these changed circumstances we are talking about £28. Whatever happens we will not be handing £28 to Hearts. We hope we have done enough in the last four years to earn our Members' patience.



Hibernian Supporters

Great post, I have no problem with you guys banking the money in the next few months. Important to take the time to reach the correct decisions, there is no great rush.

My DD is staying firmly in place, I hope all fans believe that HSL have earned our trust, and consultations will mould the way forward.

[OfficialHSL]

The purpose of HSL has to now be reviewed. Wether people like it or not it failed in its original requirement. If it’s now going to be a straightforward player budget fund then let’s get on with it and they can present a big cheque to Hibs every 6 months.

Underscore

Thank you for your comments but if you don't mind we need to share our own view as we are conscious that many of our Members read this Forum .

The purpose of Hibernian Supporters was to help the Club by acquiring as many shares in the Club as possible. We would suspect our Members continue to support this object but of course we could be wrong on that.

You say that Hibernian Supporters "failed in it's original requirement". Well of course we can't comment on that as that very much depends on what you personally understood to be our original requirement. The facts however are as follows :

In late December 2014 the Club announced the results of a Strategic Review that the Board had undertaken over the preceding months. The Board sought to give supporters the opportunity to acquire shares in the Club and from what we recall authorised the issue of an additional 62,500,000 shares. A consequence of this was that if supporters had bought all of these shares the existing principal shareholder would have it's stake reduced to 49%. Of course around 1% was already in the hands of ordinary supporters. Individual supporters were given the opportunity to buy shares as well as Hibernian Supporters Ltd which was formed around the same time. So from these simple facts it was clear that Hibernian Supporters had no prospect of acquiring more than 50% and in all likelihood a figure well below that was more realistic. Hibernian Supporters was particularly helpful to fans who could not afford a lump sum. The shares were offered to everyone at 4p per share.

The Board of Hibernian Supporters saw this as a very good opportunity to help our Club as well as giving supporters with an interest in fan ownership the opportunity to participate. We stepped forward in response to the offer made by the Club. I think it is fair to say that from there on we set our goal as achieving a meaningful stake and defined this as 25.1% The Club made this an even more attractive idea by committing to directing all of the funds received from us to the football budget.

Can we say to all our fellow Members of Hibernian Supporters well done, congratulations and thank you so much. You did not and have not failed. You knew an offer when you saw one. You were not put off by all the detractors along the way and you have supported your Club with generosity and passion. Oh, and by the way, what have you achieved to date ?

- Four years ago we owned zero shares in the Club and now we own approximately 15.4 %
- You donated almost £800,000 to our Club at a time when our Club needed money
- That money allowed the Club to bring players to the team that would simply not have happened without it. For understandable reasons Leeann will never be able to be specific but that need not matter as football is a team sport after all.

And finally, those players that we helped to bring in delivered us the Scottish Cup on the 21st May 2016

Please never think of yourselves as failures.


Hibernian Supporters

[OfficialHSL]

So HSL has the 20% needed to get on the board then. That's after the takeover.

HSL was it HSL that bought the 70k worth of shares just before the takeover? Did that take us over the 20% and just how close did we get to 25% before the takeover?

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibernian/interview-sir-tom-farmer-hibs-reluctant-saviour-reveals-his-pride-and-a-lack-of-animosity-towards-wallace-mercer-1-4964201/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk

Tapatalk

I'm sorry, that figure is not accurate. See our later post.


Hibernian Supporters

[DaveF]

Tapatalk

I'm sorry, that figure is not accurate. See our later post.


Hibernian Supporters

Jim, the above post says HSL own 15.4% but the website had the figure as 18.81% just recently.

Is this reduction due to dilution from the takeover?

[Pagan Hibernia]

Jim, the above post says HSL own 15.4% but the website had the figure as 18.81% just recently.

Is this reduction due to dilution from the takeover?

yes. 15.4% is actually higher than I expected it to be after dilution and is still a meaningful stake. Sounding out the intentions of the other 17% not in the hands of Bydand would make us all feel a lot more relaxed about things

[OfficialHSL]

Jim, the above post says HSL own 15.4% but the website had the figure as 18.81% just recently.

Is this reduction due to dilution from the takeover?

Dave

Yes and the web site has been updated accordingly. We will of course be making further changes to the web site as soon as we can.


Hibernian Supporters

[weecounty hibby]

I have to be honest and say that I'm fairly relaxed about the HSL thing. I'm also fairly relaxed about what HSL will do with the money going forward. The guys running HSL are Hibbies like the rest of us here and I'm sure they will do the best possible with the money going forward. If it goes directly to the manager for transfer funds, great. If it goes towards the HTC thus freeing up funds for the manager that would otherwise be spent on HTC then great. If it goes towards painting the cludgy in the offices thus freeing up funds for the manager that would otherwise be spent on painting the cludgy then great. As far as I'm concerned anyway you look at it, wherever additional money is spent it directly or indirectly ends up with the manager.

[Baldy Foghorn]

You think?

Just my opinion and my own guesswork on it but i think there is a lot Moore to consider that can be sorted in one or two meetings.

For instance:

Do HSL keep some money back in the back to protect its shareholding should there be another share issue? This is probably a good idea and a responsible thing to do.

Do HSL get its members to agree that the money can just be donated to the club, and if so, should there be limitations put on where the club can spend it?

Do HSL buy shares from existing shareholders to increase its holding?

If it goes to a vote, who gets to vote - full members or anyone contributing?

That took about ten seconds to come up with that list so I think if someone was to sit and look forensically at the situation, many more questions and considerations would come up.

I think it’s totally unreasonable to expect there to be a straightforward “here’s what we’re doing going forward” message at this point in time.

We do know that HSL has to continue, though, as we own a significant part of the club. People cancelling contributions isn’t going to be helpful regardless of the path HSL eventually takes, and to my mind, the situation remains that the club is healthiest when we as a support are able to increase its income, however that looks.

Good post M.

[1875STEVE]

Tapatalk

I'm sorry, that figure is not accurate. See our later post.


Hibernian Supporters

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Arch Stanton]

You think?

Just my opinion and my own guesswork on it but i think there is a lot Moore to consider that can be sorted in one or two meetings.

For instance:

Do HSL keep some money back in the back to protect its shareholding should there be another share issue? This is probably a good idea and a responsible thing to do.

Do HSL get its members to agree that the money can just be donated to the club, and if so, should there be limitations put on where the club can spend it?

Do HSL buy shares from existing shareholders to increase its holding?

If it goes to a vote, who gets to vote - full members or anyone contributing?

That took about ten seconds to come up with that list so I think if someone was to sit and look forensically at the situation, many more questions and considerations would come up.

I think it’s totally unreasonable to expect there to be a straightforward “here’s what we’re doing going forward” message at this point in time.

We do know that HSL has to continue, though, as we own a significant part of the club. People cancelling contributions isn’t going to be helpful regardless of the path HSL eventually takes, and to my mind, the situation remains that the club is healthiest when we as a support are able to increase its income, however that looks.

That's a good summary of the work required, and as you say, probably not the whole of it. While it is laudable that HSL is staffed only by volunteers I think this should be rethought in light of this tsunami!

Personally I think they should get in a contractor with appropriate business analysis and executive skills for 6 months - it would be money well spent to set a re-styled HSL on a good foundation.

[Gmack7]

I've not sure what exactly will happen going forward, the only certainty from me is i will continue contributing

[Gorebridge Hibb]

I've not sure what exactly will happen going forward, the only certainty from me is i will continue contributing

Me too...

[Daniel 1875]

Me too...

As will I. We don't know for sure what the scheme or vehicle will look like going forward yet but we do know the club will continue to benefit from our contributions one way or another and for that reason I'll keep donating what I can. Hopefully the majority of contributors will also feel the same and we can build on the funds raised with new members once the dust settles and a new plan/target is put in place.

[Capt Mainwaring]

As will I. We don't know for sure what the scheme or vehicle will look like going forward yet but we do know the club will continue to benefit from our contributions one way or another and for that reason I'll keep donating what I can. Hopefully the majority of contributors will also feel the same and we can build on the funds raised with new members once the dust settles and a new plan/target is put in place.
Yep - same here

[Bob Box Fish]

HSL

This is just merely an idea, but if talks with our new owner are still in their infancy:

New initiative that runs from the close of this transfer window to the opening of next summers or alternatively to each window (jan and summer).

Each £1 that is raised by the fan is matched by the new owner, e.g. fans raise 200k this is matched by Ron 200k giving a total of 400k.

Every £1 that is raised is only used for wages / transfer fees to try and move us to the next level and allow us to compete with Aberdeen for example when acquiring new players.

I think if the money was matched and used only towards players then you could potentially acquire a lot more fans on board.

This is just my opinion and if you don’t ask you don’t get!

[OfficialHSL]

Yep - same here

That's the spirit - don't give them your name Pike.




Hibernian Supporters

[malcolm]

That's a good summary of the work required, and as you say, probably not the whole of it. While it is laudable that HSL is staffed only by volunteers I think this should be rethought in light of this tsunami!

Personally I think they should get in a contractor with appropriate business analysis and executive skills for 6 months - it would be money well spent to set a re-styled HSL on a good foundation.

Not sure I’d agree. It is all pretty simple - money is collected and goes to club. It needs a little communication with a web site, a payment mechanism and the goodwill of the audience. One key reason that Hibernian Supporters have not done as well as they could, has been the relentless negativity. The flat earth fake news trumpets have not helped but the propensity of folk to not bother to think for themselves and just accept the tide of negativity in social media is a problem. One that won’t go away easily.

Instead of tapping into the skills and goodwill of that part of the support with a more optimistic outlook, you think we should pay for analysis and executive skills?:confused:

With all that negativity I can imagine how some would react to their contributions going to pay a salary rather than go to the club!

I could perhaps see some benefit in a rethink based on rational analysis but not sure the workings of the mass hibs support’s psyche is open to external paid for analysis :wink:

I don’t see ‘executive skills’ add anything. That essentially means ability to make decisions and a short term contractor is not going to be given that ability. You’d be paying for recommendations - with no incentive for them to be any good or practical etc.

Far better to wait for the engagement between the parties (one certainly with the best interests of the club at heart and the other with no reason for now to doubt hold a similar position) to come up with any new approach/strategy and if appropriate put that to the members.

Given reasonable timescales, maybe something optimistic and good will come from that and maybe help turn the tide of handwringing negativity (that passes now for pre-season) into something less depressing.. last I checked the sky is not falling but reading .net you might doubt that.

[1875STEVE]

Yep - same here

I will be as well.

Depending on how HSL looks and the purpose going forward Im considering doubling it.

[Daniel 1875]

An update email went out to contributors this morning, main points:



Two consultation meetings to be set up with fans/members between now and week commencing 5th August, dates/times tbc
Meeting to be scheduled with HSA to discuss moving forward
Third kit and Members Board still going ahead


Also an article by Alan Pattullo at the Evening News here (https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/latest-hibs-news/hibs-takeover-raises-concerns-over-fans-stake-in-club-1-4967552) which provides an update.

[offshorehibby]

HIBERNIAN SUPPORTERS 1875 – A FAN FOR ALL REASONS

In our earlier communication to you, we were keen to get factual information to you as soon as possible. On reflection, we were not able to convey an emotion which we know is shared by many of you – disappointment. Yes, like you, we were disappointed that we were unable to achieve our desired stake prior to the acquisition, however, like every other Hibs supporter disappointment is soon replaced by optimism and enthusiasm.

The purpose of Hibernian Supporters was to help the Club by acquiring as many shares in the Club as possible. We would suspect our Members continue to support this objective and want to move forward positively. Before moving forward however it is sometimes helpful to glance back to help you with your bearings.

In late December 2014 the Club announced the results of a Strategic Review that the Board had undertaken over the preceding months. The Board sought to give supporters the opportunity to acquire shares in the Club and from what we recall authorised the issue of an additional 62,500,000 shares. A consequence of this was that if supporters had bought all of these shares the existing principal shareholder would have it's stake reduced to 49%. Of course around 1% was already in the hands of ordinary supporters. Individual supporters were given the opportunity to buy shares as well as Hibernian Supporters Ltd which was formed around the same time. So from these simple facts it was clear that Hibernian Supporters had no prospect of acquiring more than 50% and in all likelihood a figure well below that was more realistic. Hibernian Supporters was particularly helpful to fans who could not afford a lump sum. The shares were offered to everyone at 4p per share.

The Board of Hibernian Supporters saw this as a very good opportunity to help our Club as well as giving supporters with an interest in fan ownership the opportunity to participate. We stepped forward in response to the offer made by the Club. We think it is fair to say that from there on we set our goal as achieving a meaningful stake and defined this as 25.1% The Club made this an even more attractive idea by committing to directing all of the funds received from us to the football budget.

Can we say to all our fellow Members of Hibernian Supporters well done, congratulations and thank you. You did not and have not failed. You knew an offer when you saw one, it’s just a shame that others didn’t see it. You were not put off by all the detractors along the way and you have supported your Club with generosity and passion. Oh, and by the way, what have you achieved to date?

Four years ago we owned zero shares in the Club and now we own approximately 15.4 %
You donated over £800,000 to the cause at a time when our Club needed money.
That money allowed the Club to bring players to the team that would simply not have happened without it.
And finally, those players that we helped to bring in delivered us the Scottish Cup on the 21st May 2016 and our promotion back to the SPFL.
Going forward, we are pleased to confirm that your Board have now had the opportunity to meet and consider the issues raised as a result of the acquisition and whilst we have a few points to tidy up, Hibernian Supporters have a key role to play in our Clubs future.
The first issue for consideration is - what do our Members want going forward? We are simply your Directors and this Company is owned by you. We are in the process of organising two Consultation Meetings to be held at the Stadium. We are hoping the first one will be next week and will of course confirm dates as soon as we have these. We would expect the second Consultation with our Members in the week beginning 5th August, again we will confirm the exact dates as soon as we have these confirmed.

We have also accepted a very kind invitation from the HSA to join them at Sunnyside to help inform their Members, many of whom are also Members of Hibernian Supporters. Again we await the exact date but this will be confirmed shortly.

As I said earlier, while some feel disappointed, it is important to make clear our starting point. Our principal objective remains the same. While we cannot buy any more shares from the Club there are still approximately 17.4 % shares in the hands of small shareholders and Nominee shareholders. We have already received share donations from small shareholders. While it remains arithmetically possible to achieve the 25.1% stake we believe that you would feel that your Board would be letting you down were we to suggest abandoning this aim as soon as we stumble across the first hurdle.

In simple terms its business as usual.

Hibernian Supporters is the second largest shareholder in the Club. It will continue to be relevant and after our Consultation process we feel sure that you will feel it is the best platform for all Hibs fans to help the Club.

Our infrastructure is established, robust and flexible and able to take care of everyone’s needs. If you can’t or don’t want to provide additional financial assistance to our Club that is fully understandable.

If you previously did not want to engage with Hibernian Supporters for personal reasons perhaps things have changed for you.

If you don’t have any interest whatsoever in any ownership matters we can help, and it is still worthwhile visiting our web site. Go to the donate page but rather than click for Membership click on the “donate” button. You will not become a Member of Hibernian Supporters and you will not receive a Membership Certificate. Your money will simply be passed on to the Club. This will appeal to all of those supporters who were searching for this alternative.

For our Members and prospective Members who wish to continue on this journey we can even deal with differing views. For those that want their funds going to the playing budget – that will happen. For those that want their funds going to infrastructure projects – that will happen. One thing you can feel certain of is that we will listen carefully to our Members over the coming weeks, since, at the end of the day you are the owners of this Company.

Things will continue as planned. Our Members Board continues, our third strip continues, initiatives continue.

Whatever your reasons for supporting your Club, Hibernian Supporters is your platform.


James Adie
Chairman

[jacomo]

I have no doubt that James means well, but that’s a rambling and not entirely clear message.

HSL seems to have been abandoned by LD, which is disappointing seeing as she was the one pushing fan ownership in the first place.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I have no doubt that James means well, but that’s a rambling and not entirely clear message.

HSL seems to have been abandoned by LD, which is disappointing seeing as she was the one pushing fan ownership in the first place.

LD is still on HS Board. (AFAIK)

[3pm]

LD is still on HS Board. (AFAIK)

She was at the AGM in May.

[Baldy Foghorn]

She was at the AGM in May.

Cheers R

[linlithgowhibbie]

I have no doubt that James means well, but that’s a rambling and not entirely clear message.

HSL seems to have been abandoned by LD, which is disappointing seeing as she was the one pushing fan ownership in the first place.

Seems clear to me. Not rambling and a clear, concise message that i understood.
Well done Jim

[OfficialHSL]

I have no doubt that James means well, but that’s a rambling and not entirely clear message.

HSL seems to have been abandoned by LD, which is disappointing seeing as she was the one pushing fan ownership in the first place.

Jacomo

I acknowledge that my message was rather longer than I would have preferred but I am sorry that you feel it was "rambling". Striking the right balance between conveying as much information as possible while trying to be brief isn't always easy.

Please let us know what further clarity you require ?

Please also bear in mind that we are seeking to take on board our Members views on many issues which of course is required to provide further clarity.


Jim

[offshorehibby]

A clear enough statment to me. 2 or 3 consultation meetings with it's members over the coming weeks to get a direction on where HSL should be heading in the future.

If it's aim is to continue supporting Hibs financialy i will be continuing with my monthly contributions.

[lord bunberry]

I have no doubt that James means well, but that’s a rambling and not entirely clear message.

HSL seems to have been abandoned by LD, which is disappointing seeing as she was the one pushing fan ownership in the first place.

Agreed it’s making a statement for the sake of it. It tells us nothing really.

[OfficialHSL]

Agreed it’s making a statement for the sake of it. It tells us nothing really.

Lord Burnberry

What would you like to know ?


Hibernian Supporters

[Since452]

Not really interested in shares anyway. Just want to continue contributing to the player budget. Planning to double my monthly DD. Ron can deal with the infrastructure. Didn't sign up for that.

[Bostonhibby]

No problem understanding the message as it's the one I expected.

The sale has closed the door to HSL's aspiration to at least get that meaningful seat on the board, and it's the same for members like me who had that as their main objective.

As an observation, Ron might want to offer to sell enough to HSL to enable that to happen but it's unlikely.

There's now a straightforward choice for those that do contribute but have seen ownership/HSL as a problem but want to make contributions in the future. Existing members and new future donations can go down the player budget or infrastructure budget route.

I'd personally want to know a bit more about the infrastructure plans before going down that route so am holding fire meantime.





Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Baldy Foghorn]

Seems clear to me. Not rambling and a clear, concise message that i understood.
Well done Jim

I thought it was a decent communication too

[Argylehibby]

Jim,

If I understand this what you are saying is that you will still collect the monthly subs but instead of those funds going to the club in exchange for new shares it will go to existing shareholders to buy their shares from them. Is that correct?

[Steve-O]

Lord Burnberry

What would you like to know ?


Hibernian Supporters

Where are the donations now going is the obvious question?

*this may be covered, I haven’t read earlier posts yet. Answer may be you don’t know yet!

[Baldy Foghorn]

Should have added, I'd rather monies go to the player budget than the infrastructure.

[lord bunberry]

Lord Burnberry

What would you like to know ?


Hibernian Supporters

Nothing really at this point. We know you’re going to be having meetings to decide the way forward. The statement didn’t really tell us much.
Let’s be honest there’s only a few things that people are waiting to hear, the main one being what’s our money is going to used for.

[Lancs Harp]

I welcomed the statement I found the summary of what had happened pretty useful, well easier than following this thread for instance as to whats gone on.

So its a thanks from me at least.

Often a thankless task I would imagine, a classic case of not being able to satisfy everybody, which is entirely understandable.

[The 90+2]

Where are the donations now going is the obvious question?

*this may be covered, I haven’t read earlier posts yet. Answer may be you don’t know yet!

This, plus what do HSL get in return for handing money to the club and who makes the decision in the club what the funds get spent on?

[Currie Hibee]

A clear enough statment to me. 2 or 3 consultation meetings with it's members over the coming weeks to get a direction on where HSL should be heading in the future.

If it's aim is to continue supporting Hibs financialy i will be continuing with my monthly contributions.


Seems clear to me. You can still donate to HSL who in turn will pass the funds on to the club. The only chance being no shares in return. No one was donating their money for a financial return and as such I don’t see that a huge amount has changed.

[BSEJVT]

HIBERNIAN SUPPORTERS 1875 – A FAN FOR ALL REASONS

In our earlier communication to you, we were keen to get factual information to you as soon as possible. On reflection, we were not able to convey an emotion which we know is shared by many of you – disappointment. Yes, like you, we were disappointed that we were unable to achieve our desired stake prior to the acquisition, however, like every other Hibs supporter disappointment is soon replaced by optimism and enthusiasm.

The purpose of Hibernian Supporters was to help the Club by acquiring as many shares in the Club as possible. We would suspect our Members continue to support this objective and want to move forward positively. Before moving forward however it is sometimes helpful to glance back to help you with your bearings.

In late December 2014 the Club announced the results of a Strategic Review that the Board had undertaken over the preceding months. The Board sought to give supporters the opportunity to acquire shares in the Club and from what we recall authorised the issue of an additional 62,500,000 shares. A consequence of this was that if supporters had bought all of these shares the existing principal shareholder would have it's stake reduced to 49%. Of course around 1% was already in the hands of ordinary supporters. Individual supporters were given the opportunity to buy shares as well as Hibernian Supporters Ltd which was formed around the same time. So from these simple facts it was clear that Hibernian Supporters had no prospect of acquiring more than 50% and in all likelihood a figure well below that was more realistic. Hibernian Supporters was particularly helpful to fans who could not afford a lump sum. The shares were offered to everyone at 4p per share.

The Board of Hibernian Supporters saw this as a very good opportunity to help our Club as well as giving supporters with an interest in fan ownership the opportunity to participate. We stepped forward in response to the offer made by the Club. We think it is fair to say that from there on we set our goal as achieving a meaningful stake and defined this as 25.1% The Club made this an even more attractive idea by committing to directing all of the funds received from us to the football budget.

Can we say to all our fellow Members of Hibernian Supporters well done, congratulations and thank you. You did not and have not failed. You knew an offer when you saw one, it’s just a shame that others didn’t see it. You were not put off by all the detractors along the way and you have supported your Club with generosity and passion. Oh, and by the way, what have you achieved to date?

Four years ago we owned zero shares in the Club and now we own approximately 15.4 %
You donated over £800,000 to the cause at a time when our Club needed money.
That money allowed the Club to bring players to the team that would simply not have happened without it.
And finally, those players that we helped to bring in delivered us the Scottish Cup on the 21st May 2016 and our promotion back to the SPFL.
Going forward, we are pleased to confirm that your Board have now had the opportunity to meet and consider the issues raised as a result of the acquisition and whilst we have a few points to tidy up, Hibernian Supporters have a key role to play in our Clubs future.
The first issue for consideration is - what do our Members want going forward? We are simply your Directors and this Company is owned by you. We are in the process of organising two Consultation Meetings to be held at the Stadium. We are hoping the first one will be next week and will of course confirm dates as soon as we have these. We would expect the second Consultation with our Members in the week beginning 5th August, again we will confirm the exact dates as soon as we have these confirmed.

We have also accepted a very kind invitation from the HSA to join them at Sunnyside to help inform their Members, many of whom are also Members of Hibernian Supporters. Again we await the exact date but this will be confirmed shortly.

As I said earlier, while some feel disappointed, it is important to make clear our starting point. Our principal objective remains the same. While we cannot buy any more shares from the Club there are still approximately 17.4 % shares in the hands of small shareholders and Nominee shareholders. We have already received share donations from small shareholders. While it remains arithmetically possible to achieve the 25.1% stake we believe that you would feel that your Board would be letting you down were we to suggest abandoning this aim as soon as we stumble across the first hurdle.

In simple terms its business as usual.

Hibernian Supporters is the second largest shareholder in the Club. It will continue to be relevant and after our Consultation process we feel sure that you will feel it is the best platform for all Hibs fans to help the Club.

Our infrastructure is established, robust and flexible and able to take care of everyone’s needs. If you can’t or don’t want to provide additional financial assistance to our Club that is fully understandable.

If you previously did not want to engage with Hibernian Supporters for personal reasons perhaps things have changed for you.

If you don’t have any interest whatsoever in any ownership matters we can help, and it is still worthwhile visiting our web site. Go to the donate page but rather than click for Membership click on the “donate” button. You will not become a Member of Hibernian Supporters and you will not receive a Membership Certificate. Your money will simply be passed on to the Club. This will appeal to all of those supporters who were searching for this alternative.

For our Members and prospective Members who wish to continue on this journey we can even deal with differing views. For those that want their funds going to the playing budget – that will happen. For those that want their funds going to infrastructure projects – that will happen. One thing you can feel certain of is that we will listen carefully to our Members over the coming weeks, since, at the end of the day you are the owners of this Company.

Things will continue as planned. Our Members Board continues, our third strip continues, initiatives continue.

Whatever your reasons for supporting your Club, Hibernian Supporters is your platform.


James Adie
Chairman

I think it's completely unfair the rubbishing this information has been given by some supporters.

Apart from stating the blindingly obvious fact that any increase in HSL's shareholding other than outright donations would require those shares to be bought from nominees or existing shareholders, it sets out exactly where HSL are thinking of going, going forward.

I think what it does do is highlight the danger I am going to allude to further of failing in its real purpose by trying to be all things to everyone and failing to be anything to anybody.

As a long-time advocate of HSL I have post-takeover made my feelings clear in what HSL should be doing going forward IMO

If HSL were to content themselves with raising funds to eventually drive their stake to the magical 25.1% and wield influence through their 15.4% present shareholding they would have my full backing and financial support.

I think the danger here is their attempting to garner a bigger hold of fans other donations to the club and I think that can only be to their detriment as they neither have the time, administrative capability, staff backing or skill set to do this.

IMO HSL needs to focus on their reason for existence and make it clear to all contributors that the only significant difference going forward is that their donations won't go to the team but will go to buy shareholdings from individuals/nominees to protect the clubs long term future.

Some contributors will accept this, others won't.

IMO anything other than this should be the preserve of the club through a scheme similar to Aberdeen's which gives something back to the fans.

HSL is not required for this and personally there is not a cats chance in hell of my contributing specifically for infrastructure projects which wee Ron can ram right up his arse.

I have seen enough crap Hibs teams hamstrung by infrastructure spending to last a lifetime and such projects predominantly benefit the majority owner by driving up the Net Book value of the business.

HSL need to do the job they were constructed to do, not the one they fancy inventing for themselves.

I get that some will argue that they were there to put funds into the team and that is what they propose to do but that came with the caveat that the clubs future was protected, raising funds without that quid pro quo is the clubs job.

[WhileTheChief..]

Fair play to those of you who want to keep donating but i can't get my head around working class folks donating their cash to a multi millionaire owner or to pay extra wages to highly paid footballers!

I know it's our club and we want to help but this is just ridiculous.

They should be saying a massive thank you but we no longer need your money, Ron's got it covered, cheers!!

[offshorehibby]

I own a small amout of shares from the original Duff/Gray days 350/400. If i could keep a minamal amount of shares that would still entitle me to get to the AGM, i would be happy giftting X amount of shares to HSL.

[BSEJVT]

Fair play to those of you who want to keep donating but i can't get my head around working class folks donating their cash to a multi millionaire owner or to pay extra wages to highly paid footballers!

I know it's our club and we want to help but this is just ridiculous.

They should be saying a massive thank you but we no longer need your money, Ron's got it covered, cheers!!

We have corresponded on this topic before and I respected your position although I didn't agree with it.

If HSL sticks to the task I have said I believe they should which is the acquisition of shares from other holders to help safeguard the clubs future, then none of your obviously deeply held concerns apply.

Would you be prepared to donate monies to a member ran organisation to do so knowing that all they were doing was purchasing shares on the open market to safeguard the clubs future and that neither multi-millionaire owners or highly paid footballers were advantaged by your donation?

You would effectively be helping to preserve the club for future generations whilst leaving it to stand entirely on its own two feet at present.

[Brooster]

HSL issue a clear and concise update yet folk jump right down their throats. Cut them some slack and let them deal with this period of transition.....which they seem to be doing pretty well from what I can see.

[BSEJVT]

I own a small amout of shares from the original Duff/Gray days 350/400. If i could keep a minamal amount of shares that would still entitle me to get to the AGM, i would be happy giftting X amount of shares to HSL.

I can see why you would do that but personally, I wouldn't

As there are no further shares available for purchase to create even minimal "badge" shareholdings I would suggest either keeping them to pass on down through the generations, probably by dividing them up to grandchildren as I am or enabling fellow supporters to have their "badge"

By "badge" I mean sticking a share certificate on their wall as a "badge" of honour

[craigiehibs]

i have contributed to hsl sine the start. 225 initial and since then 48.75 a month. i am more than happy to consider ongoing support. but what worries me is how do the rank and file get to really understand the pkan going fwd? i am one of many and a member of hsa and travelling to every away game as well as home. but im not one of the hsa elite, just a punter. how do i know those invited to any meetings will speak for me? you cant possibly invite 2k plus people to 2 meetings? so how will my voice and that of others be heard and taken on board?

[JohnMcM]

Can someone help me please, I'm a member and have a question.

What does this "shares certificate" thing look like?

:flag:

[Pretty Boy]

Seems a fair enough summary to me. A look back at what has been achieved, a confirmation of where things are at present and the outline of how plans will be made for the future.

I look forward to attending one of the get togethers in the near future.

[craigiehibs]

Seems a fair enough summary to me. A look back at what has been achieved, a confirmation of where things are at present and the outline of how plans will be made for the future.

I look forward to attending one of the get togethers in the near future.

well u must be more cofident than me that u will get the opportunity?

[Gerard]

I look forward to HSL continuing to raise funds and for these funds to be spent on making Hibs a more successful football team.

[Blaster]

I look forward to HSL continuing to raise funds and for these funds to be spent on making Hibs a more successful football team.

Me too. I want my small contribution to be going to getting better players and not for purchasing shares where the only beneficiary is the seller.

[The 90+2]

Seems clear to me. You can still donate to HSL who in turn will pass the funds on to the club. The only chance being no shares in return. No one was donating their money for a financial return and as such I don’t see that a huge amount has changed.

That’s one massive change to be honest.

Donate funds to HSL then they will pass funds to the club? For what? What’s the point in that? This website could collect funds and pass to the club or just do directly.

[Pretty Boy]

That’s one massive change to be honest.

Donate funds to HSL then they will pass funds to the club? For what? What’s the point in that? This website could collect funds and pass to the club or just do directly.

I know that when Hibs.net donates money to the club we often have to send an accompanying letter clearly stating the money is a donation. HSL were previously covered as they were receiving shares in return for their payments.

I wonder if there is tax implications for having a system which sees supporters handing money directly to the club on a semi regular basis under the guise of a donation?

[BILLYHIBS]

Looks like a fait accompli by Wee Ron

No chance of HSL buying anymore shares as none will be made available for sale so we are stuck on 15%

Any monies donated by HSL might be spent on players or may also be spent on infrastructure leaving Ron in total control as it is his train set

We have to simply trust that STF and RP left us in safe hands

I personally trust that they did but would rather given the above would rather that my small monthly contribution is spent on players

As others have said no one expects a return on this investment it is an emotional commitment as we love our club

[Daniel 1875]

i have contributed to hsl sine the start. 225 initial and since then 48.75 a month. i am more than happy to consider ongoing support. but what worries me is how do the rank and file get to really understand the pkan going fwd? i am one of many and a member of hsa and travelling to every away game as well as home. but im not one of the hsa elite, just a punter. how do i know those invited to any meetings will speak for me? you cant possibly invite 2k plus people to 2 meetings? so how will my voice and that of others be heard and taken on board?

HSL invited '2k plus' people and sent an open invite to anyone who wasn't a contributor to one meeting at the AGM at Easter Road at the end of last season, around 20 people showed up.

Two meetings plus an open invite to HSA members to attend at Sunnyside will be more than enough opportunity for anyone who wants to attend and contribute to the debate around what's best going forward imo.

There is also facility on the members page on the website to conduct votes I am sure, so if there was a large vote to be had this could be carried out online for anyone not able to make it in person.

[jacomo]

Fair play to those of you who want to keep donating but i can't get my head around working class folks donating their cash to a multi millionaire owner or to pay extra wages to highly paid footballers!

I know it's our club and we want to help but this is just ridiculous.

They should be saying a massive thank you but we no longer need your money, Ron's got it covered, cheers!!


Rich owner or not, Hibs is reliant on its fans to continue to put money into the club.

Most of this comes in the way of ticket sales, with secondary income lines like merchandise etc.

I always cringe when people criticise others for not backing HSL - some of the people they criticise will be life long fans who have loyally pumped thousands of their hard-earned cash into Hibs over the years, through good times and bad.

HSL had an appeal to those who like fan ownership, to those happy to put a bit extra in, and to those who maybe don’t get to many games but still want to support the club.

It’s this last group who I think could be targeted more effectively... but Jim can’t do it on his own.

[WhileTheChief..]

We have corresponded on this topic before and I respected your position although I didn't agree with it.

If HSL sticks to the task I have said I believe they should which is the acquisition of shares from other holders to help safeguard the clubs future, then none of your obviously deeply held concerns apply.

Would you be prepared to donate monies to a member ran organisation to do so knowing that all they were doing was purchasing shares on the open market to safeguard the clubs future and that neither multi-millionaire owners or highly paid footballers were advantaged by your donation?

You would effectively be helping to preserve the club for future generations whilst leaving it to stand entirely on its own two feet at present.

The problem I have with HSL in general is the concept of fans paying more, in any shape or form. I think we all pay enough already.

To try and answer your point though, the message has been mixed from day one.

For some people it was all about getting a meaningful share holding. That I could agree with. The thought of outright fan ownership terrified me but thankfully that's now been nipped in the bud.

For others though it was about helping the playing budget. I absolutely 100% disagree with this for so many reasons.

My main issue though is people constantly telling us that it was the only way to compete with Hearts or Aberdeen. Fed up hearing it and I don't believe it for one minute. It's simply not true and if it were the case then we should accept it and live within our means. To live off voluntary donations is mental when you have a turnover of £8m plus.

So if it is to continue, and I repeat that it should not, then those of you that are happy to should continue to but leave the rest of us in peace!

Peace :thumbsup:

[OfficialHSL]

Not really interested in shares anyway. Just want to continue contributing to the player budget. Planning to double my monthly DD. Ron can deal with the infrastructure. Didn't sign up for that.

Since452

And that's absolutely fine. As we stated in our email our system is robust enough to make sure this happens for you.

Hibernian Supporters

[BILLYHIBS]

I have a mate a fellow ST holder who has bought a “Happy Hibby” ticket for the last forty years

That is his contribution refuses to join HSL and has never won a bean

Anyone else remember the Lucky Programme numbers and the old guy used to come out and walk around the pitch with the numbers on a black board and everyone would throw pies at it ?

[lyonhibs]

To be perfectly honest (perhaps it's been mentioned elsewhere already) but if/when HSL becomes officially purely a vehicle for enhancing the manager’s playing budget with no fannying about with shares, it'll be what I've wanted it to be from the get go and I'll pony up my £225 post haste.

[offshorehibby]

I can see why you would do that but personally, I wouldn't

As there are no further shares available for purchase to create even minimal "badge" shareholdings I would suggest either keeping them to pass on down through the generations, probably by dividing them up to grandchildren as I am or enabling fellow supporters to have their "badge"

By "badge" I mean sticking a share certificate on their wall as a "badge" of honour


BSEJVT

If I could keep hold of enough shares to allow me to say, I still own a we chunk of Hibs I'd be more than happy to gift to HSL. This, if other fans were of a similar frame of mind would get HSL to their 25.1% desired holding.

To be honest while immediate family would like to call themselves Hibbys I know James that have put more money into Hibs than them.

Gifting family shares probably wouldn't raise an eyebrow with them and when I depart the terracing for good my share cert would end up at the bottom of a drawer never to be appreciated.

[cam75]

I’m paid up and continue my monthly donation I’d want to see the money going to the players budget, I have a token share certificate looks good on the wall,il continue payments until we see the direction it takes 🤞it’s all for the transfer kitty.

Ggtth

[LeithMike]

I think it's completely unfair the rubbishing this information has been given by some supporters.

Apart from stating the blindingly obvious fact that any increase in HSL's shareholding other than outright donations would require those shares to be bought from nominees or existing shareholders, it sets out exactly where HSL are thinking of going, going forward.

I think what it does do is highlight the danger I am going to allude to further of failing in its real purpose by trying to be all things to everyone and failing to be anything to anybody.

As a long-time advocate of HSL I have post-takeover made my feelings clear in what HSL should be doing going forward IMO

If HSL were to content themselves with raising funds to eventually drive their stake to the magical 25.1% and wield influence through their 15.4% present shareholding they would have my full backing and financial support.

I think the danger here is their attempting to garner a bigger hold of fans other donations to the club and I think that can only be to their detriment as they neither have the time, administrative capability, staff backing or skill set to do this.

IMO HSL needs to focus on their reason for existence and make it clear to all contributors that the only significant difference going forward is that their donations won't go to the team but will go to buy shareholdings from individuals/nominees to protect the clubs long term future.

Some contributors will accept this, others won't.

IMO anything other than this should be the preserve of the club through a scheme similar to Aberdeen's which gives something back to the fans.

HSL is not required for this and personally there is not a cats chance in hell of my contributing specifically for infrastructure projects which wee Ron can ram right up his arse.

I have seen enough crap Hibs teams hamstrung by infrastructure spending to last a lifetime and such projects predominantly benefit the majority owner by driving up the Net Book value of the business.

HSL need to do the job they were constructed to do, not the one they fancy inventing for themselves.

I get that some will argue that they were there to put funds into the team and that is what they propose to do but that came with the caveat that the clubs future was protected, raising funds without that quid pro quo is the clubs job.Hard to disagree with any of this. Clear and logical thinking.

I contribute to HSL do it can acquire the shareholding as thought this was a great offer. It was a bonus that the funds went to the playing budget.

Now that that is no longer possible, I dont think it's right that fans contribute to the club's budget without anything in return. I agree that the club running something like AberDNA is the way to go.

As for HSL, I think it should see what it can do to acquire existing shares and simply focus on being as powerful a voice as possible for Hibs supporters.

Are HSL still guaranteed a seat on the board if a certain percentage is obtained?

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[BSEJVT]

BSEJVT

If I could keep hold of enough shares to allow me to say, I still own a we chunk of Hibs I'd be more than happy to gift to HSL. This, if other fans were of a similar frame of mind would get HSL to their 25.1% desired holding.

To be honest while immediate family would like to call themselves Hibbys I know James that have put more money into Hibs than them.

Gifting family shares probably wouldn't raise an eyebrow with them and when I depart the terracing for good my share cert would end up at the bottom of a drawer never to be appreciated.

Entirely reasonable approach from you then

HSL will greatly appreciate shares

[BSEJVT]

The problem I have with HSL in general is the concept of fans paying more, in any shape or form. I think we all pay enough already.

To try and answer your point though, the message has been mixed from day one.

For some people it was all about getting a meaningful share holding. That I could agree with. The thought of outright fan ownership terrified me but thankfully that's now been nipped in the bud.

For others though it was about helping the playing budget. I absolutely 100% disagree with this for so many reasons.

My main issue though is people constantly telling us that it was the only way to compete with Hearts or Aberdeen. Fed up hearing it and I don't believe it for one minute. It's simply not true and if it were the case then we should accept it and live within our means. To live off voluntary donations is mental when you have a turnover of £8m plus.

So if it is to continue, and I repeat that it should not, then those of you that are happy to should continue to but leave the rest of us in peace!



The problem I have with HSL in general is the concept of fans paying more, in any shape or form. I think we all pay enough already.

'You have said that before and whilst I don't agree I fully accept your right to feel that way'

To try and answer your point though, the message has been mixed from day one.

'Tbf I don't think that was HSL's doing I think that Buy Hibs muddied the water and HSL have been playing catch up since'

For some people it was all about getting a meaningful shareholding. That I could agree with. The thought of outright fan ownership terrified me but thankfully that's now been nipped in the bud.

"I don't disagree with any of that and think that is the proposal I am advancing? It has always been about reaching 25.1% to me and I have consistently repeated that mantra"

For others though it was about helping the playing budget. I absolutely 100% disagree with this for so many reasons.

'For me securing the shareholding has always been the issue, the monies going to the playing budget were for me at least a brucie bonus'

My main issue though is people constantly telling us that it was the only way to compete with Hearts or Aberdeen. Fed up hearing it and I don't believe it for one minute. It's simply not true and if it were the case then we should accept it and live within our means. To live off voluntary donations is mental when you have a turnover of £8m plus.

'You have said that before and whilst I don't agree I fully accept your right to feel that way'

So if it is to continue, and I repeat that it should not, then those of you that are happy to should continue to but leave the rest of us in peace!

' I am sorry but that's not going to happen. IMO it is more important than ever that somehow HSL reach that 25.1%.

We have gone from having a long-standing known benevolent owner to who knows what?

I have no reason to doubt Ron Gordon but had none to doubt Duff & Gray, sometimes things unravel unexpectedly.

I won't rest until Hibs future is secured in so far as I can influence it for my children grandchildren and future generations

All I can ask is that if you get fed up reading it ignore it'

Peace :thumbsup:

'And peace be unto you brother'

GGTTH'

[OfficialHSL]

Seems clear to me. Not rambling and a clear, concise message that i understood.
Well done Jim

Thank you.

Will try to now progress through the other points raised in other posts.


Hibernian Supporters

[ronaldo7]

Jim,

If I understand this what you are saying is that you will still collect the monthly subs but instead of those funds going to the club in exchange for new shares it will go to existing shareholders to buy their shares from them. Is that correct?

I was wondering about this myself. Are we to have several vehicles for donations to be given to different streams of the business. Player budget, Infrastructure, and buying shares from the 17.4%.

If our objectives are still the same, surely we only have one vehicle and that's buying the shares from the 17.4% meaning zero cash goes to the club, apart from the donations button.


This from the statement.

Our principal objective remains the same. While we cannot buy any more shares from the Club there are still approximately 17.4 % shares in the hands of small shareholders and Nominee shareholders.