Loyalty Points

[HibeeHibernian4]

One problem with loyalty points is that various people in a group can be on different tiers and you can’t all sit together when they are released in phases.

One thing I can guarantee is that if a loyalty points scheme is introduced there will still be people moaning about it not being right.

I would suggest that Scottish football needs to have unreserved seating in the away end, standers can go up the top and sitters in the bottom half of the stand. So then that wouldn't be a problem, hopefully.

[Ozyhibby]

One problem with loyalty points is that various people in a group can be on different tiers and you can’t all sit together when they are released in phases.

One thing I can guarantee is that if a loyalty points scheme is introduced there will still be people moaning about it not being right.

That 2nd paragraph is exactly why it got expensive.


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[Geo_1875]

We can never have 3 away league games to hearts, and would never have all three of those sides away 3 times in one season and if we got them in cups then we can just demand more tickets from rangers and Celtic, simple.

Never say never. And when did Hibs get the right to demand more tickets for an away game? Visitors in cup games are entitled to up to 20% of tickets where a stadium can handle that with appropriate segregation.

[hibbysam]

Never say never. And when did Hibs get the right to demand more tickets for an away game? Visitors in cup games are entitled to up to 20% of tickets where a stadium can handle that with appropriate segregation.

The first part is a written rule when it comes to split games, no derby will have 3/1 split. Both celtic Park and Ibrox have segregation available for 20% if we wanted it. We’ve had it at Ibrox and could have it at Celtic Park.

[Kojock]

That 2nd paragraph is exactly why it got expensive.


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LD is against a Loyalty Scheme because,

a) it’s too costly
b) abuse handed out to TO staff
c) it devalues the season ticket
d) it creates an exclusive group

Any more ??

[Billy Whizz]

LD is against a Loyalty Scheme because,

a) it’s too costly
b) abuse handed out to TO staff
c) it devalues the season ticket
d) it creates an exclusive group

Any more ??

Thought the LS was for the fans, and not LD

[Since90+2]

LD is against a Loyalty Scheme because,

a) it’s too costly
b) abuse handed out to TO staff
c) it devalues the season ticket
d) it creates an exclusive group

Any more ??

There should be a loyalty point system.

It's just ridiculous to argue otherwise and I say this as someone who won't necessarily gain from such a system. I'm probably in a bracket of most fans who attend a few away games a season and would like a ticket for Tynecastle. In the event of of a loyalty point system I might or might not get a ticket for Hearts away , the exact same setup as there is now with the exception that the most loyal fans get some kind of priority which is fair enough.

It won't change though. LD made the decision and she won't go back on it.

[Kojock]

Thought the LS was for the fans, and not LD

The topic is not up for discussion with LD

[B.H.F.C]

The topic is not up for discussion with LD

Which is a shambles. If the issues you listed in the previous post are correct (as some posters on here keep telling us they are) then it would be nice to hear it from her. Instead of the wall of silence on the subject.

[Dancehibs]

LD is against a Loyalty Scheme because,

a) it’s too costly
b) abuse handed out to TO staff
c) it devalues the season ticket
d) it creates an exclusive group

Any more ??

But happy to give season ticket holders in Edinburgh suite guaranteed two tickets for every away game plus sponsors that appear in the ground. So we have different levels if season ticket holders now

[Dancehibs]

LD is against a Loyalty Scheme because,

a) it’s too costly
b) abuse handed out to TO staff
c) it devalues the season ticket
d) it creates an exclusive group

Any more ??

People abusing TO staff should be banned. No need .

[Eyrie]

LD is against a Loyalty Scheme because,

a) it’s too costly
b) abuse handed out to TO staff
c) it devalues the season ticket
d) it creates an exclusive group

Any more ??

A - Really? The away season ticket has to be administered with no benefit to Hibs.
B - Ban the idiots responsible.
C - Make a season ticket worth more points than attending every game as a walk up.
D - The away season ticket is even more exclusive than the exclusive season ticket group.

Yes - how do other clubs cope with running such schemes?

[StevieC]

One problem with loyalty points is that various people in a group can be on different tiers and you can’t all sit together when they are released in phases.


Yes they can, quite easily, assuming the system in place is a good one.

[Crunchie]

How did you have well over 500 points then? :confused:

I've bought the tickets for every cup game the past Christ knows how many years for my group. Plus I got the points for HSL membership.

[Ozyhibby]

A - Really? The away season ticket has to be administered with no benefit to Hibs.
B - Ban the idiots responsible.
C - Make a season ticket worth more points than attending every game as a walk up.
D - The away season ticket is even more exclusive than the exclusive season ticket group.

Yes - how do other clubs cope with running such schemes?

On point A, the club has to sell away tickets no matter what. Having 300 sold without any extra work every week is a benefit to the club.
I’d be happy enough for them to open up the away season ticket, that way there would be no need for a loyalty point scheme.



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[Dancehibs]

On point A, the club has to sell away tickets no matter what. Having 300 sold without any extra work every week is a benefit to the club.
I’d be happy enough for them to open up the away season ticket, that way there would be no need for a loyalty point scheme.



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they don’t. I recall a few years ago teams stopped selling them and you bought them direct. Also, old firm wanted to charge teams hence selling directly cane into play.

For years we didn’t need all ticket games for small crowds. It worked fine.

[Danderhall Hibs]

On point A, the club has to sell away tickets no matter what. Having 300 sold without any extra work every week is a benefit to the club.
I’d be happy enough for them to open up the away season ticket, that way there would be no need for a loyalty point scheme.



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They have to add in extra wording to the comms, arrange to collect the direct debit and allocate the best seats (usually) available. Too much time and effort.

And if there were more than 300 there’d be occasions when ther weren’t enough tickets available - and then a LP debate would start within the group...

[Ozyhibby]

they don’t. I recall a few years ago teams stopped selling them and you bought them direct. Also, old firm wanted to charge teams hence selling directly cane into play.

For years we didn’t need all ticket games for small crowds. It worked fine.

Letting the home team deal with selling us tickets is one way of dealing with this I suppose. [emoji3]


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[Ozyhibby]

They have to add in extra wording to the comms, arrange to collect the direct debit and allocate the best seats (usually) available. Too much time and effort.

And if there were more than 300 there’d be occasions when ther weren’t enough tickets available - and then a LP debate would start within the group...

Usually we get at least 900 tickets though? I doubt there would be 900 willing to sign up for the away ticket scheme.
I take it the current 300 is fully subscribed? Were people knocked back when they applied for an away season ticket this year?


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[Danderhall Hibs]

Usually we get at least 900 tickets though? I doubt there would be 900 willing to sign up for the away ticket scheme.
I take it the current 300 is fully subscribed? Were people knocked back when they applied for an away season ticket this year?


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In the league 900 is the minimum but we could get less in a cup game so they have to play safe.

I read on here it was fully subscribed but no idea if anyone was turned away. I’m not sure how high the demand is for one.

[Ozyhibby]

In the league 900 is the minimum but we could get less in a cup game so they have to play safe.

I read on here it was fully subscribed but no idea if anyone was turned away. I’m not sure how high the demand is for one.

Have to admit I have no idea myself but an easy solution to this is to expand it to maybe 600. That way all the regular away attendees are looked after for big away games. Infrequent away attendees like myself are in with the rest. Easy to administer.


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[Danderhall Hibs]

Have to admit I have no idea myself but an easy solution to this is to expand it to maybe 600. That way all the regular away attendees are looked after for big away games. Infrequent away attendees like myself are in with the rest. Easy to administer.


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There’s logic in there but it’d still be an all or nothing system and those that go to most games would be tied into buying tickets for all games for no benefit.

[Ozyhibby]

There’s logic in there but it’d still be an all or nothing system and those that go to most games would be tied into buying tickets for all games for no benefit.

That’s the way season tickets have always worked. Very few people get full value for money with their season tickets because there are usually a couple of games a season that get missed for one reason or another.
The away season ticket looks after the most frequent attendees but also preserves the value of the home season ticket by allowing access to Tynecastle tickets.


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[SunshineOnLeith]

The old one was always badly implemented, that and the HSL nonsense poisoned the idea of a loyalty scheme.

I just don't think we need one, it solves a problem that doesn't exist.

As a ST holder, if I bother my arse to log in to eticketing on the morning tickets go on sale for any game, I'll get tickets. Sure, the online ticket scramble is a pain but if you're there on time you won't miss out.

So are the ubers really just looking to have their special status acknowledged and protected, by exempting them from having to take part in the scramble? Either that, or what they really want is guaranteed access to the 'best tickets' at away grounds, rather than just being able to buy a ticket.

I've got nothing against a loyalty scheme in principal, but we don't need one.

[B.H.F.C]

As a ST holder, if I bother my arse to log in to eticketing on the morning tickets go on sale for any game, I'll get tickets. Sure, the online ticket scramble is a pain but if you're there on time you won't miss out.


That’s just not true, as I’m sure many people on here could testify to.

[danhibees1875]

That’s just not true, as I’m sure many people on here could testify to.

:agree:

I couldn't get tickets for hearts games twice last year despite being there on time and having the browser open for over an hour.

[Kojock]

On point A, the club has to sell away tickets no matter what. Having 300 sold without any extra work every week is a benefit to the club.
I’d be happy enough for them to open up the away season ticket, that way there would be no need for a loyalty point scheme.

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How are the 300 tickets no extra work,? it's the same amount of work as if non AST ticket holders buy them, they have to be allocated, payment processed, receipts printed then placed into envelopes and posted.

[Kojock]

:agree:

I couldn't get tickets for hearts games twice last year despite being there on time and having the browser open for over an hour.

At times we have had 4 folk on two or three different devices and still missed out. Last game at Tynie we managed to get 5 single tickets scattered all over the place.

[Kojock]

In the league 900 is the minimum but we could get less in a cup game so they have to play safe.

I read on here it was fully subscribed but no idea if anyone was turned away. I’m not sure how high the demand is for one.

It is fully subscribed and there is a waiting list.

[Ozyhibby]

How are the 300 tickets no extra work,? it's the same amount of work as if non AST ticket holders buy them, they have to be allocated, payment processed, receipts printed then placed into envelopes and posted.

My argument was that they were not extra work. I’m happy enough to accept that it’s the same amount of work (although personally I think it will be easier than selling to the public).


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[Billy Whizz]

What a lot of people forget is you can get up the ladder for key away games if you have a loyalty scheme in place.

If you look at this season, Hibs have had 3 home European ties and 2 Betfred Cup ties too. These games would have added up to much more loyalty points than away games so far

So most of the these fans would have almost automatically got tickets for Tynecastle if they’d attended all

Might also have added a few more to home gates too, if a scheme was in place

[Ozyhibby]

It is fully subscribed and there is a waiting list.

I would think you would not have to go much higher than the 300 before everyone who wants one gets one and then everyone is happy?


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[Scouse Hibee]

I attended every single game in our promotion season. Home and away. All cup ties as well, except the Scottish cup tie at tynecastle because I couldn't get a ticket. Is that fair?

It’s tough luck but hardly unfair, plenty missed out.

[Baldy Foghorn]

The old one was always badly implemented, that and the HSL nonsense poisoned the idea of a loyalty scheme.

I just don't think we need one, it solves a problem that doesn't exist.

As a ST holder, if I bother my arse to log in to eticketing on the morning tickets go on sale for any game, I'll get tickets. Sure, the online ticket scramble is a pain but if you're there on time you won't miss out.

So are the ubers really just looking to have their special status acknowledged and protected, by exempting them from having to take part in the scramble? Either that, or what they really want is guaranteed access to the 'best tickets' at away grounds, rather than just being able to buy a ticket.

I've got nothing against a loyalty scheme in principal, but we don't need one.

Calling supporters who have the audacity to go every week "ubers", says more about you than anything else

[Hiber-nation]

That’s just not true, as I’m sure many people on here could testify to.

Correct, but I think the poster in question has previous for nonsense like this. And calling away fans "ubers" is just attention-seeking.

[Hermit Crab]

The old one was always badly implemented, that and the HSL nonsense poisoned the idea of a loyalty scheme.

I just don't think we need one, it solves a problem that doesn't exist.

As a ST holder, if I bother my arse to log in to eticketing on the morning tickets go on sale for any game, I'll get tickets. Sure, the online ticket scramble is a pain but if you're there on time you won't miss out.

So are the ubers really just looking to have their special status acknowledged and protected, by exempting them from having to take part in the scramble? Either that, or what they really want is guaranteed access to the 'best tickets' at away grounds, rather than just being able to buy a ticket.

I've got nothing against a loyalty scheme in principal, but we don't need one.


You must have uber wifi then and nobody is guaranteed at ticket in the online scramble and fine you know it.

Away fans are ubers now? Would they still be ubers if there was a LP scheme in place which is fairer for everyone?

[SChibs]

I go to about 90% of away games so am I classed as an uber? Just wondering so I know if I can put it on my CV or not.

[Scouse Hibee]

Why is your preferred choice of private hire transport relevant to buying Hibs tickets?

[Ozyhibby]

I go to about 90% of away games so am I classed as an uber? Just wondering so I know if I can put it on my CV or not.

Depends on your reason for missing the other 10%.


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[SChibs]

Depends on your reason for missing the other 10%.


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Shifts/standbys at work, saving for a mortgage, etc.

[Ozyhibby]

Shifts/standbys at work, saving for a mortgage, etc.

Work might be ok to retain your uber status but a true Uber fan would be expected to postpone home ownership for however long it took in order to be ever present. Fail. [emoji3]


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[MWHIBBIES]

It’s tough luck but hardly unfair, plenty missed out.Yeah, I agree. I wasn't really saying it was or it wasn't. Just giving an extreme example. I know of a few people who only attended that away game all season.

[hibbysam]

At times we have had 4 folk on two or three different devices and still missed out. Last game at Tynie we managed to get 5 single tickets scattered all over the place.

I was the same, which is why it annoys me that there isn’t an option to choose however many tickets you are after, and the system allocate you seats (ie 5 together, or a 3 and a 2, or if there genuinely are just singles available then 5 singles). Would save so much time and hassle, having to select every different section to find out whether it is sold out or not, to then add that one ticket to your basket, to then go through it all again for ticket 2 etc.

[Ozyhibby]

I was the same, which is why it annoys me that there isn’t an option to choose however many tickets you are after, and the system allocate you seats (ie 5 together, or a 3 and a 2, or if there genuinely are just singles available then 5 singles). Would save so much time and hassle, having to select every different section to find out whether it is sold out or not, to then add that one ticket to your basket, to then go through it all again for ticket 2 etc.

I agree that there should be a ‘I don’t give a flying **** what section, just give me a ticket option’ to save all faffing about trying different sections.


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[Eyrie]

The old one was always badly implemented, that and the HSL nonsense poisoned the idea of a loyalty scheme.

I just don't think we need one, it solves a problem that doesn't exist.

As a ST holder, if I bother my arse to log in to eticketing on the morning tickets go on sale for any game, I'll get tickets. Sure, the online ticket scramble is a pain but if you're there on time you won't miss out.

So are the ubers really just looking to have their special status acknowledged and protected, by exempting them from having to take part in the scramble? Either that, or what they really want is guaranteed access to the 'best tickets' at away grounds, rather than just being able to buy a ticket.

I've got nothing against a loyalty scheme in principal, but we don't need one.

Not everyone is able to take time off or skive at work to attempt to get tickets so a loyalty point scheme would allow those fans to get their tickets in their own time within a limited window.

[AndyB_70]

This is getting to be a joke. We are all busy but to waste time on getting tickets for these big games is beyond ridiculous. We had loyalty points before but HSL and their 100 points reward screwed it all up.

BRING THEM BACK NOW HIBS

[Heckys Wheel]

This is getting to be a joke. We are all busy but to waste time on getting tickets for these big games is beyond ridiculous. We had loyalty points before but HSL and their 100 points reward screwed it all up.

BRING THEM BACK NOW HIBS

:yawn::yawn::yawn:

[col02]

Not going to happen. As much as we'd all like this system brought back the powers that be prefer the lottery we currently have.

[Kojock]

Pressure has to be put in LD to reconsider.

[Onceinawhile]

Not going to happen. As much as we'd all like this system brought back the powers that be prefer the lottery we currently have.

we had loyalty points, there was huge complaints, now we have a lottery.

We have a lottery, there's huge complaints.

The club can't win regardless, so why change it?

The only possible reason is to stop the incredibly boring whinging bring back loyalty points threads.

[Kojock]

we had loyalty points, there was huge complaints, now we have a lottery.

We have a lottery, there's huge complaints.

The club can't win regardless, so why change it?

The only possible reason is to stop the incredibly boring whinging bring back loyalty points threads.

Or for fans who want a LP system reintroduced to be as vocal and cause as much hassle as the fans who got it abandoned in the first place.

[col02]

we had loyalty points, there was huge complaints, now we have a lottery.

We have a lottery, there's huge complaints.

The club can't win regardless, so why change it?

The only possible reason is to stop the incredibly boring whinging bring back loyalty points threads.

Who exactly complained about loyalty points? We had a system that while not perfect made things simpler. Yes it needed tweaked a bit but to remove it on the basis of a small minority complaining rather than consultation isn't good business practice imho.

[Since90+2]

Not going to happen. I've said it before but while we are seeing record season ticket sales the club won't risk implementing anything that could potentially impact that. I'm not saying it's right but it's the reality.

[SunshineOnLeith]

we had loyalty points, there was huge complaints, now we have a lottery.

We have a lottery, there's huge complaints.

The club can't win regardless, so why change it?

The only possible reason is to stop the incredibly boring whinging bring back loyalty points threads.

Should just be a genuine lottery i.e. A ballot of ST holders who want to go. Much simpler.

[Big_Franck]

The club and Dempster in particular will just stick her fingers in her ears until the complaints about this die down. And then the same thing will happen the next time tickets are in high demand.

It's been happening for years now. Some supporter experience this Leeann.

[HibeeHibernian4]

we had loyalty points, there was huge complaints, now we have a lottery.

We have a lottery, there's huge complaints.

The club can't win regardless, so why change it?

The only possible reason is to stop the incredibly boring whinging bring back loyalty points threads.

This post genuinely raised my blood pressure a bit.

The only reason to change it is because it is INFINITELY FAIRER than a lottery.

The club can win, they can look after their loyalest away fans who travel up and down Scotland to support Hibs, and not give a damn what the latecomers think about where 1,000 Tynecastle tickets should go.

[WhileTheChief..]

How is this different to the thread a couple of days ago about loyalty points? It’s all been said and done numerous times before.

Maybe better getting in touch with the club?

[Jackh]

It’s nothing short of a disgrace that the club don’t have a loyalty points system. Today has been yet another shambles

[kaimendhibs]

I agree
It’s nothing short of a disgrace that the club don’t have a loyalty points system. Today has been yet another shambles

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[SunshineOnLeith]

The old one was always badly implemented, that and the HSL nonsense poisoned the idea of a loyalty scheme.

I just don't think we need one, it solves a problem that doesn't exist.

As a ST holder, if I bother my arse to log in to eticketing on the morning tickets go on sale for any game, I'll get tickets. Sure, the online ticket scramble is a pain but if you're there on time you won't miss out.

So are the ubers really just looking to have their special status acknowledged and protected, by exempting them from having to take part in the scramble? Either that, or what they really want is guaranteed access to the 'best tickets' at away grounds, rather than just being able to buy a ticket.

I've got nothing against a loyalty scheme in principal, but we don't need one.

100% record in tact 😎

[Ozyhibby]

People want guaranteed tickets for Tynecastle without the hassle of going online. This will always keep coming back. They don’t care if season ticket sales take a hit.


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[tam4hibs]

This post genuinely raised my blood pressure a bit.

The only reason to change it is because it is INFINITELY FAIRER than a lottery.

The club can win, they can look after their loyalest away fans who travel up and down Scotland to support Hibs, and not give a damn what the latecomers think about where 1,000 Tynecastle tickets should go.

The club do look after the 'loyalest' fans by offering an Away ST which gurantees these fans who travel up and down Scotland a seat. If you go to every away game, the like many - buy an away ST. If you pick and choose ; you take the risk of a lottery

[B.H.F.C]

People want guaranteed tickets for Tynecastle without the hassle of going online. This will always keep coming back. They don’t care if season ticket sales take a hit.


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Going online isn’t the issue. People feel they are missing out, unfairly, on occasion. If they knew they were going to go online and get their ticket I’m sure they wouldn’t have an issue.

[Since90+2]

The club do look after the 'loyalest' fans by offering an Away ST which gurantees these fans who travel up and down Scotland a seat. If you go to every away game, the like many - buy an away ST. If you pick and choose ; you take the risk of a lottery

As it stand though you cannot get an away season ticket so that is not an option.

[SHODAN]

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give LOYALTY POINTS ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

[HibeeHibernian4]

The club do look after the 'loyalest' fans by offering an Away ST which gurantees these fans who travel up and down Scotland a seat. If you go to every away game, the like many - buy an away ST. If you pick and choose ; you take the risk of a lottery

Here's a thought for you, what if it's not black and white? What if there are fans in between those who NEVER go to an away game that isn't Tynecastle and those who go to 80-90% of away games like myself but cannot afford to take a £100 hit for missing out on four games on the Away ST scheme, which takes money out of your account whether you're going or not.

What if said Away ST is actually fully booked and there's a waiting list?

[HibeeHibernian4]

People want guaranteed tickets for Tynecastle without the hassle of going online. This will always keep coming back. They don’t care if season ticket sales take a hit.


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I care more that away fans who travel to almost every single away game are shafted out of Tynecastle tickets by fans who never leave Edinburgh, yes. To be quite honest, anybody who doesn't buy a season ticket because their chance of getting a ticket for Hearts away is reduced by 33% (yes, it would be 3,000 Roseburn tickets whittled down to Roseburn 2,000 tickets) is a person whose absence I'm not going to miss at Easter Road.

At some point in our future, we'll be back to struggling to fill half of the Roseburn, and it'll be the same regular faces going.

[kaimendhibs]

I truly believe the only folk against loyalty points are those who wouldn't earn enough to get to Cat A away games. And it's Thier voice who is heard

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[DH1875]

Do we really need another thread? There's already a 10 pager on the go.



Should just be a genuine lottery i.e. A ballot of ST holders who want to go. Much simpler.

This is where I'm at with it all :agree:

[cleanyman]

Not a fan of loyalty points

Do the ballot

What do Rangers and Celtic do ?

[theonlywayisup]

Do we really need another thread? There's already a 10 pager on the go.




This is where I'm at with it all :agree:

Agree - why don't the Admins merge common threads like they used to do? I know an Admin previously replied that they don't read every thread, hence why they don't. But surely the thread title should give a clue.

Anyway, back on topic bring back loyalty points. It's the fairest system. Rewards those that invest most into the club.

[Ozyhibby]

Not a fan of loyalty points

Do the ballot

What do Rangers and Celtic do ?

A ballot.


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[Jay]

Agree - why don't the Admins merge common threads like they used to do? I know an Admin previously replied that they don't read every thread, hence why they don't. But surely the thread title should give a clue.

Anyway, back on topic bring back loyalty points. It's the fairest system. Rewards those that invest most into the club.


We have jobs.

[Ozyhibby]

Agree - why don't the Admins merge common threads like they used to do? I know an Admin previously replied that they don't read every thread, hence why they don't. But surely the thread title should give a clue.

Anyway, back on topic bring back loyalty points. It's the fairest system. Rewards those that invest most into the club.

How do the invest most? We don’t get the money they spend on away tickets?


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[Ozyhibby]

I care more that away fans who travel to almost every single away game are shafted out of Tynecastle tickets by fans who never leave Edinburgh, yes. To be quite honest, anybody who doesn't buy a season ticket because their chance of getting a ticket for Hearts away is reduced by 33% (yes, it would be 3,000 Roseburn tickets whittled down to Roseburn 2,000 tickets) is a person whose absence I'm not going to miss at Easter Road.

At some point in our future, we'll be back to struggling to fill half of the Roseburn, and it'll be the same regular faces going.

I care that if they don’t buy a season ticket then it’s less money to spend on the team.


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[The_Horde]

I've always been of the opinion that if you really want tickets you'll get them.

I think I've only managed to not get tickets once and that was for rangers away a few years ago and the main reason we didn't get them was we were half hearted and didn't expect them to sell out.

We watched the game in a pub in Leith. We all got suitably pished, hibs won and a great night was had by all.

Much like anything in life really. If you really want it, you'll achieve it.

[Since90+2]

I care that if they don’t buy a season ticket then it’s less money to spend on the team.


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Out if interest how many away games do you attend and do you always look for a ticket at Tynecastle?

[HibeeHibernian4]

Not a fan of loyalty points

Do the ballot

What do Rangers and Celtic do ?

Rangers have an away ticket scheme that you have to sign up for, I believe it's called the CCCS. Celtic have a system that I'm not quite sure of the details on, but to get a ticket for a game like Aberdeen away I think you have to have been to the last 20 something away games or something ludicrous like that.

The comparison to make is what do Hearts and Aberdeen do, they have similarly sized away supports and Hearts in particular have the same three away fixtures that they usually sell out - us, Rangers and Celtic.

So, what do Hearts do?

Oh look, funny that, they have a loyalty points scheme, it runs fairly and none of their fans moan about it:

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/tickets-and-hospitality/matchday/loyalty-points-scheme

[Carheenlea]

If the club are adamant that they do not wish to implement a points system for away tickets, then it’s not unreasonable to expect them to pay for a online ticketing system that can handle the volume of supporters logging on to try and buy tickets for high demand games on numerous occasions throughout the season.
Be interesting to know what would be cheaper - more bandwidth/larger capacity on ticketmaster or a Loyalty Point System. My money would be on the latter.

[SHODAN]

Loyalty points?

[Ozyhibby]

Out if interest how many away games do you attend and do you always look for a ticket at Tynecastle?

Prob about 3-5 away games a season and I sometimes go for Tynecastle tickets. Didn’t go for them today for example.
I honestly am looking at it in term of the finances of the club.


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[DH1875]

Rangers have an away ticket scheme that you have to sign up for, I believe it's called the CCCS. Celtic have a system that I'm not quite sure of the details on, but to get a ticket for a game like Aberdeen away I think you have to have been to the last 20 something away games or something ludicrous like that.

The comparison to make is what do Hearts and Aberdeen do, they have similarly sized away supports and Hearts in particular have the same three away fixtures that they usually sell out - us, Rangers and Celtic.

So, what do Hearts do?

Oh look, funny that, they have a loyalty points scheme, it runs fairly and none of their fans moan about it:

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/tickets-and-hospitality/matchday/loyalty-points-scheme


Some of their fans do moan about it though.

[cleanyman]

Rangers have an away ticket scheme that you have to sign up for, I believe it's called the CCCS. Celtic have a system that I'm not quite sure of the details on, but to get a ticket for a game like Aberdeen away I think you have to have been to the last 20 something away games or something ludicrous like that.

The comparison to make is what do Hearts and Aberdeen do, they have similarly sized away supports and Hearts in particular have the same three away fixtures that they usually sell out - us, Rangers and Celtic.

So, what do Hearts do?

Oh look, funny that, they have a loyalty points scheme, it runs fairly and none of their fans moan about it:

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/tickets-and-hospitality/matchday/loyalty-points-scheme

Hearts fans moan about that ALL the time

You cannae win

[Alex Trager]

Madness that folk wouldn’t back a LP system.

The points should be administered the same way fro every game.

For example:
For every season ticket bought. 36 points.
For every home ticket bought. 2 points.
For every ticketed away game. 1 point.

Then renew them every year? Every second?

For big demand games no points awarded.

Simple as that.

Then have 2 day options as per point total to buy tickets. Staged easy and fair.

Not only is it fair it would prevent a mad rush and system crashes.

Those who are against it are likely to be those who would miss out.

[kaimendhibs]

[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]
I care more that away fans who travel to almost every single away game are shafted out of Tynecastle tickets by fans who never leave Edinburgh, yes. To be quite honest, anybody who doesn't buy a season ticket because their chance of getting a ticket for Hearts away is reduced by 33% (yes, it would be 3,000 Roseburn tickets whittled down to Roseburn 2,000 tickets) is a person whose absence I'm not going to miss at Easter Road.

At some point in our future, we'll be back to struggling to fill half of the Roseburn, and it'll be the same regular faces going.

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[Ozyhibby]

Madness that folk wouldn’t back a LP system.

The points should be administered the same way fro every game.

For example:
For every season ticket bought. 36 points.
For every home ticket bought. 2 points.
For every ticketed away game. 1 point.

Then renew them every year? Every second?

For big demand games no points awarded.

Simple as that.

Then have 2 day options as per point total to buy tickets. Staged easy and fair.

Not only is it fair it would prevent a mad rush and system crashes.

Those who are against it are likely to be those who would miss out.

I honestly would not miss out and managed to get tickets for Tynecastle when the LP system was in place. For me it is mostly about protecting season ticket sales and the cost of the system.
I can see why some think the current system is unfair but I can also see why some were considering giving up their season ticket when it was not giving them a shout at a ticket for Tynecastle. There are a lot of season ticket holders who don’t make enough home games to make it a financially sensible decision to keep getting one but they do so because it gets them a chance of getting tickets for Tynecastle or cup finals etc. We don’t want to lose them do we?


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[Hibeesmad]

I thought that the loyalty points system worked really well. I am not sure the reasons behind getting rid of it, i think hibs giving points for things other than attending games caused a bit of outrage.

I do like the Away season ticket offer and those who do regularly attend I know will take advantage of this. However, there will be those in a position who can't attend every away fixture due to work, family or financial commitments which doesnt take away any loyalty that they have.

If majority dont agree with a points system then i think the idea of selling category A tickets to season ticket holders who have attended X amount of away games in the previous season should definitely be considered as it will give those who can't make every away game a fair opportunity and it will create more fans attending away matches to support the team.

[HibeeHibernian4]

I honestly would not miss out and managed to get tickets for Tynecastle when the LP system was in place. For me it is mostly about protecting season ticket sales and the cost of the system.
I can see why some think the current system is unfair but I can also see why some were considering giving up their season ticket when it was not giving them a shout at a ticket for Tynecastle. There are a lot of season ticket holders who don’t make enough home games to make it a financially sensible decision to keep getting one but they do so because it gets them a chance of getting tickets for Tynecastle or cup finals etc. We don’t want to lose them do we?


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I will be seriously considering giving up my season ticket if this carries on, so are my concerns now as equally respected as the people who throw their toys out of the pram because they won't go to ANY away game that isn't Livingston but expect an equal shot at Hearts away? Or is it because I'm there every week that people think it'll be a bluff, and that I won't give up my season ticket? I'd love to know.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Some of their fans do moan about it though.


Hearts fans moan about that ALL the time

You cannae win

I'm sorry, but this is either accidentally wrong or wilful fabrication. There are virtually no threads at all on Kickback that grumble about loyalty points, most fans recognise that if they don't have enough points for the away end at Easter Road then that's on them for not having collected enough points over the last season or three.

Hearts' system works great, we need to copy it immediately.

[LaMotta]

I care more that away fans who travel to almost every single away game are shafted out of Tynecastle tickets by fans who never leave Edinburgh, yes. To be quite honest, anybody who doesn't buy a season ticket because their chance of getting a ticket for Hearts away is reduced by 33% (yes, it would be 3,000 Roseburn tickets whittled down to Roseburn 2,000 tickets) is a person whose absence I'm not going to miss at Easter Road.

At some point in our future, we'll be back to struggling to fill half of the Roseburn, and it'll be the same regular faces going.

Great post,100% agree.

[LaMotta]

I will be seriously considering giving up my season ticket if this carries on, so are my concerns now as equally respected as the people who throw their toys out of the pram because they won't go to ANY away game that isn't Livingston but expect an equal shot at Hearts away? Or is it because I'm there every week that people think it'll be a bluff, and that I won't give up my season ticket? I'd love to know.

A good point you raise. A lot of talk that a loyalty points system devalues season tickets, when you actually could also argue that the LACK of a loyalty point system devalues season tickets for some.

[cleanyman]

I'm sorry, but this is either accidentally wrong or wilful fabrication. There are virtually no threads at all on Kickback that grumble about loyalty points, most fans recognise that if they don't have enough points for the away end at Easter Road then that's on them for not having collected enough points over the last season or three.

Hearts' system works great, we need to copy it immediately.

What's Kickback got to do with anything

[HibeeHibernian4]

What's Kickback got to do with anything

It's Hearts' main forum, if I was going to gauge their opinion on an issue, I'd go there. To reverse it, if you looked on .net right now as a neutral observer, you'd be able to spot that there is a clear issue regarding loyalty points. Conversely, if you looked at Kickback, you would be able to deduce that they don't have such an issue with their scheme, and I haven't seen any such thread indicating that they have any problems with it for a long, long time.

[Danderhall Hibs]

It’d be interesting to know ow how many folk would stop getting a home ST if there was a loyalty points system.

Cutting their nose off to spite their face.

[green&left]

Half the allocation to the top point holders, the other half in a ballot or a free for all on eticketing.

800 for Ibrox - 400 to the top 400 point holders, the others online general sale
3300 for Tynie - the top 1650 guaranteed a ticket, the remaining 1650 online general sale

Looks after the away regulars but also gives ST holders and a few away games a season types a chance via online also.

[PatHead]

Half the allocation to the top point holders, the other half in a ballot or a free for all on eticketing.

800 for Ibrox - 400 to the top 400 point holders, the others online general sale
3300 for Tynie - the top 1650 guaranteed a ticket, the remaining 1650 online general sale

Looks after the away regulars but also gives ST holders and a few away games a season types a chance via online also.

What if you you had more than 400 fans on the same points?

[wookie70]

Prob about 3-5 away games a season and I sometimes go for Tynecastle tickets. Didn’t go for them today for example.
I honestly am looking at it in term of the finances of the club.


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The long term finances of the club will greatly depend on those fans that go whether we are crap or flying high. It won't be like this forever and at some point fans who keep missing out on tickets despite going to most away games may start saying I'll not bother at all. There won't be anyone to replace those fans when we are crap and we almost certainly will be if history is to go by.

We are being run like a bank or a utility giving no award for loyalty and that usually gets on the thruppennies of those who are loyal after a while. Tricky for the board as they are trying to grow the club. The lack of loyalty system may be forgivable and understandable but the shambles that is our online ticketing offering is the board's fault and fans should not have to waste so much time for no reward and no idea how the system actually works. If we don't have a loyalty scheme, and we should imo, then run a lottery and save us all some time.

From a fans point of view who tries to get to every game they game then accessibility to tickets is one of the most important things the club has to deal with. That is even more so if they have done such a good job of getting a team on the park more Hibs fans old and new want to watch. No wonder there are a few threads and what harm is there if we are debating it over and over. No-one is forced to open the threads. I deliberately stayed away from commenting on another loyalty point thread until after another shambolic ticket sale by the club. Dempster - sort it, you twiddled with a better system until it broke and what we have is getting worse.

I have never missed out on a ticket so have no real personal axe to grind apart from the time wasted.

[SHODAN]

I care more that away fans who travel to almost every single away game are shafted out of Tynecastle tickets by fans who never leave Edinburgh, yes. To be quite honest, anybody who doesn't buy a season ticket because their chance of getting a ticket for Hearts away is reduced by 33% (yes, it would be 3,000 Roseburn tickets whittled down to Roseburn 2,000 tickets) is a person whose absence I'm not going to miss at Easter Road.

At some point in our future, we'll be back to struggling to fill half of the Roseburn, and it'll be the same regular faces going.

Exactly.

There are fans who went to every single away derby during the financial doping era where you could pretty much bet the £30 ticket cost against us and get a guaranteed return. I don't get how they lose out now just because we're good.

Also, no one is going to forego a ST just because they no longer get a guaranteed chance at a ticket to Tynecastle.

[Alex Trager]

I honestly would not miss out and managed to get tickets for Tynecastle when the LP system was in place. For me it is mostly about protecting season ticket sales and the cost of the system.
I can see why some think the current system is unfair but I can also see why some were considering giving up their season ticket when it was not giving them a shout at a ticket for Tynecastle. There are a lot of season ticket holders who don’t make enough home games to make it a financially sensible decision to keep getting one but they do so because it gets them a chance of getting tickets for Tynecastle or cup finals etc. We don’t want to lose them do we?


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If folk are buying a season ticket because they want a shot at tynie then they are surely doing it for the wrong reasons?

You don’t buy a ST for that.

The amount of people that approach buying a season ticket like that will 100% be a lot smaller than the 500/1000 that go to every away game, and the bigger numbers that go to regular away games and so forth

[Leith_Hibee]

We need a loyalty points system similar to our city rivals.

This constant chase for tickets and needing to be online 10 minutes before they go on sale to secure a ticket doesn't work for me. I've got a season ticket, I probably go to roughly 10 away games a season and I've missed out on tickets for the last few trips to tynecastle.

I think Leeann's stance on this is pretty poor.

[SHODAN]

We need a loyalty points system similar to our city rivals.

This constant chase for tickets and needing to be online 10 minutes before they go on sale to secure a ticket doesn't work for me. I've got a season ticket, I probably go to roughly 10 away games a season and I've missed out on tickets for the last few trips to tynecastle.

I think Leeann's stance on this is pretty poor.

On the other side of the coin, I've managed to get tickets for every Tynecastle game I could attend since demand started getting really high circa 2015. Whilst I'm obviously happy with this, by the law of averages I should be missing out and could easily do so next time. To be fair I did attend a lot of away games a couple years ago but have less time to do so now, so I certainly wouldn't be at the top of the queue now.

[itslegaltender]

The loyalty points system worked well until they buggered it with the points for HSL. A very rare mistake from Leeann.

[Leith_Hibee]

On the other side of the coin, I've managed to get tickets for every Tynecastle game I could attend since demand started getting really high circa 2015. Whilst I'm obviously happy with this, by the law of averages I should be missing out and could easily do so next time. To be fair I did attend a lot of away games a couple years ago but have less time to do so now, so I certainly wouldn't be at the top of the queue now.

I was in meetings most of today so wasnt able to sit at a laptop at 11:50 to secure my tickets. I'm ok with that, I just think when you have 12,000 people going for 4,000 tickets we need a better way of prioritising tickets than a lottery.

I'm starting to think why bother buying a season ticket, all it does is guarantee you the same seat.

[The Modfather]

I will be seriously considering giving up my season ticket if this carries on, so are my concerns now as equally respected as the people who throw their toys out of the pram because they won't go to ANY away game that isn't Livingston but expect an equal shot at Hearts away? Or is it because I'm there every week that people think it'll be a bluff, and that I won't give up my season ticket? I'd love to know.

Why is our away support always seen through the black and white prism of folk either going to all away games or none at all. I’d bet that the majority of our support falls somewhere in the middle. The silent majority in these debates.

[Danderhall Hibs]

The loyalty points system worked well until they buggered it with the points for HSL. A very rare mistake from Leeann.

I’ve read this a few times now and I’m not sure who it affected? My memory says no one missed out on a ticket due to this.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Why is our away support always seen through the black and white prism of folk either going to all away games or none at all. I’d bet that the majority of our support falls somewhere in the middle. The silent majority in these debates.

I completely agree with you, I am in the position of going to about 90% of Hibs’ games but am unable to commit to an AST as it would be costing me about £100 in unused tickets on the rare occasion I cannot go. The majority of our support probably do sit somewhere in the middle, although given our average away attendances usually falls between somewhere in the 1,000 to 2,000 mark, I’m pretty confident in saying it’s the same pool of 3-4,000 fans who consider doing aways.

[HH81]

The loyalty points system worked well until they buggered it with the points for HSL. A very rare mistake from Leeann.

Not true. The points made me sign up and I continued to pay to HSL since. Even increased the amount.

[telford hibbee]

I was in meetings most of today so wasnt able to sit at a laptop at 11:50 to secure my tickets. I'm ok with that, I just think when you have 12,000 people going for 4,000 tickets we need a better way of prioritising tickets than a lottery.

I'm starting to think why bother buying a season ticket, all it does is guarantee you the same seat.

After being a walk up most if not every week i struggled to get a ticket for one of the replays against the jambos. realised then that the only way to guarantee a seat for the big games AT easter road was to buy a season ticket. this as we know gives you a much better chance for games that are played by hibs outwith easter rd. i had/have no problems with loyalty points per say in some past games i was priviled to get a ticket some others had to wait on general sale. the big problem with the games against the the rangers celtic and hearts is too many people want to go.(at the moment)

[matty_f]

I’ve read this a few times now and I’m not sure who it affected? My memory says no one missed out on a ticket due to this.

I think you're right, but that never stopped folk losing their sh*t over it.

[GlesgaeHibby]

It’d be interesting to know ow how many folk would stop getting a home ST if there was a loyalty points system.

Cutting their nose off to spite their face.

Why would they stop? Surely the ST gets the most loyalty points. Then those that have ST's that go to away games regularly are in prime position for tickets, before opening it up to ST's. I can't see many objecting to the below priority order:



ST Holders that regularly go to away games
ST holders
Regular attenders at games (any combination of home/away defined by a set number of points)
Occasional attenders at games
General sale

[B.H.F.C]

Why would they stop? Surely the ST gets the most loyalty points. Then those that have ST's that go to away games regularly are in prime position for tickets, before opening it up to ST's. I can't see many objecting to the below priority order:



ST Holders that regularly go to away games
ST holders
Regular attenders at games (any combination of home/away defined by a set number of points)
Occasional attenders at games
General sale


Can’t see many objecting? It’s more or less how it was set up and got scrapped due to folk greeting about it and because it apparently devalued the season ticket.

[Tynie01011973]

Can’t see many objecting? It’s more or less how it was set up and got scrapped due to folk greeting about it and because it apparently devalued the season ticket.

People were complaining that money spent buying merchandise from Club Store made them more loyal than HSL contributors.
People complained about the split off points levels (one guy on here threatened to not renew 3 STs because he missed one cut off tranche by 1 point!!!!

LP was great way for an organised tickets distribution method that Club could handle efficiently.

Now we're left with a mad scramble for thousands of fans all trying to get tickets at the same time with a system that cannot handle the numbers

🙄

[Dancehibs]

People were complaining that money spent buying merchandise from Club Store made them more loyal than HSL contributors.
People complained about the split off points levels (one guy on here threatened to not renew 3 STs because he missed one cut off tranche by 1 point!!!!

LP was great way for an organised tickets distribution method that Club could handle efficiently.

Now we're left with a mad scramble for thousands of fans all trying to get tickets at the same time with a system that cannot handle the numbers

🙄
Also, gave HSL points but not individual shareholders. Was a total f up

[A Hi-Bee]

Loyalty points?

Even the word has a horrible connotation for me, sevco spring to mind.

[The Spaceman]

No from me as I have managed to get to the past 3 games at Tynecastle and managed the 2-1 win at Ibrox last season. System causes me no issues :confused:

[cleanyman]

Looks like a tight poll

[Hermit Crab]

Surprised the poll is so tight! AST holder voting yes by the way. :aok:

[wookie70]

What about a loyalty/attendance scheme being for the good of the playing side. It is often said that running out to a big support is like a 12th man. We had a scheme that encouraged me to go to more away games to guarantee a ticket to the premium games. There were a few games I missed the points because I paid at the gate but I knew the rules and a few more games I didn't fancy where I made the effort to make sure my tally was keeping up with what I thought I would need.

The scheme therefore, at least in my case, gave another voice to the songs, on occasion, and presumably a small gain to the atmosphere. Is it not worth a loyalty scheme to get as many fans at the less attractive away games and thus gain as big an advantage as we can.

[My_Wife_Camille]

There is currently a poll on twitter asking the same question with over 1000 votes sitting at 82% - 18% in favour of loyalty points.

Obviously not conclusive but it gives a greater insight into the debate than 35 votes on here

[Hermit Crab]

There is currently a poll on twitter asking the same question with over 1000 votes sitting at 82% - 18% in favour of loyalty points.

Obviously not conclusive but it gives a greater insight into the debate than 35 votes on here


Funny how its almost neck in neck here. Undercovers at the lash?

[marinello59]

Funny how its almost neck in neck here. Undercovers at the lash?

Given the sheer numbers on here compared to other places that’s unlikely. I’m guessing the figures will shift a bit on here but the loud angry voices on either side will tend to be countered by the silent majority who sit in the middle ground.
When we had loyalty points the loudest voices were from those who wanted them scrapped. It’s the opposite now.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Think the points should be brought back.

The main thing is that the bands needs to be clearly defined well in advance, so everyone knows how it works and can have no complaints. The problem was it was changing game by game.

I remember going to Livingston midweek to make sure I have the points for cup semi/final tickets 'guarantee yourself final tickets reaching 90pts', and then Hibs changed the goalposts.
After attending around 20+ league games as a walkup during the season with the LP system, was thrown into the mix with the entire database.
That was outrageous, just about over it now and where it all went downhill

[Ringothedog]

Just put this on another thread

I would go for a hybrid AST/loyalty points scheme. Our lowest seat availability is Ibrox(approx 900 tickets)so I would go for -
AST - get 300
Loyalty Points- 300 to the highest loyalty Points excluding AST members
Season ticket holders-300 excluding the above categories
General sale- for any tickets left
The amount of tickets available to the 2nd, 3rd and 4th categories would change depending on the amount of tickets available for each away game. I would certainly try to have at least 33% available for the 3rd category

[Hermit Crab]

Given the sheer numbers on here compared to other places that’s unlikely. I’m guessing the figures will shift a bit on here but the loud angry voices on either side will tend to be countered by the silent majority who sit in the middle ground.
When we had loyalty points the loudest voices were from those who wanted them scrapped. It’s the opposite now.


I never wanted it scrapped, just modified so it was manageable. Think its a great thing that should certainly be reconsidered by the club.

[LaMotta]

No from me as I have managed to get to the past 3 games at Tynecastle and managed the 2-1 win at Ibrox last season. System causes me no issues :confused:

You are like a Roulette player who has won 4 times in a row at the casino and thinks he is an expert gambler :rolleyes:

[CMurdoch]

You are like a Roulette player who has won 4 times in a row at the casino and thinks he is an expert gambler :rolleyes:

I suspect he is a young person who is savvy with computers which allows him to tilt the odds in his favour over all the old codgers on here like me.

[Col_0762]

Any system introduced needs to be Attendance Points. Drop the word Loyalty from all discussions as it gives a false title/impression of what the purpose of a points scheme would be.
Start it from next season:
50 points per ST card held in 2018/19, 2017/18, 2016/17.
50 points for renewing ST for 2019/20.
30 points for AST holders for 2018/19.
30 points for renewing AST for 2019/20.
1 point awarded to all ST holders outwith AST holders for tickets purchased via Hibs for away games during season 2018/19 (I know folk will have paid at the gate but only way to capture attendance at start of system).
1 point awarded per ST holder for all home game tickets purchased outside what their ST covers, excl friendlies, for same seasons as above.

If you’re a walk up then you need to wait till any general sale. This way the ST keeps the value and it’s small ‘privaledges’ for right to purchase away tickets.

Roll points over every 4 seasons. So at the end of season 2019/20, the points gained in season 16/17 would drop off.

Basic plan above. Could be written into a macro to take the information from the database and put it into excel to calculate points. Everytime you open the spreadsheet, the list updates. Surely someone at Hibs can write a macro or at least google how to do it.

Edit; I’m an AST so doesn’t effect me at the moment personally, but we all know the pain of trying to get tickets online.

[Barney McGrew]

It’s clear as day that some kind of revamp to the system needs to go in place to sort it out, because the current one has so many flaws in it.

AFAIK, the process as it stands was brought in because Hibs didn’t want people queuing overnight and for some bizarre reason thought the allocation/sale of away tickets somehow stopped people from buying seasons tickets for our home games. The first one I get but the second one is bonkers, and I can’t fathom why anyone wouldn’t buy a season for home games because there was a loyalty points system for games atIbrox or Tynecastle. Maybe that’s just me though.

So because of that, we’re all left trying to negotiate an online scramble that isnt fit for purpose. It kicks people out and freezes for no reason, the queue thing is an absolute misnomer because you can log in later and get ‘served’ quicker at random, and in short causes nothing but frustration for the vast majority of users.

Yet Hibs still steadfastly refuse to address it. That’s not any kind of customer service or putting the fans first.

(and all of that from someone who has managed to get a ticket most times for those games, so no sour grapes from me on that front)

[marinello59]

I never wanted it scrapped, just modified so it was manageable. Think its a great thing that should certainly be reconsidered by the club.

I agree, it does need to be looked at again. No matter what the club do though a large vocal group will not be happy.

[Speedy]

I'm sorry, but this is either accidentally wrong or wilful fabrication. There are virtually no threads at all on Kickback that grumble about loyalty points, most fans recognise that if they don't have enough points for the away end at Easter Road then that's on them for not having collected enough points over the last season or three.

Hearts' system works great, we need to copy it immediately.

People moan when a new system is implemented. If we do exactly as Hearts do then people will moan now, give it a couple of years and it'll be the accepted norm.

[Borderhibbie76]

Surprised the poll is so tight! AST holder voting yes by the way. :aok:Hermit u never said u had an away ST before?? [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Speedy]

Any system introduced needs to be Attendance Points. Drop the word Loyalty from all discussions as it gives a false title/impression of what the purpose of a points scheme would be.
Start it from next season:
50 points per ST card held in 2018/19, 2017/18, 2016/17.
50 points for renewing ST for 2019/20.
30 points for AST holders for 2018/19.
30 points for renewing AST for 2019/20.
1 point awarded to all ST holders outwith AST holders for tickets purchased via Hibs for away games during season 2018/19 (I know folk will have paid at the gate but only way to capture attendance at start of system).
1 point awarded per ST holder for all home game tickets purchased outside what their ST covers, excl friendlies, for same seasons as above.

If you’re a walk up then you need to wait till any general sale. This way the ST keeps the value and it’s small ‘privaledges’ for right to purchase away tickets.

Roll points over every 4 seasons. So at the end of season 2019/20, the points gained in season 16/17 would drop off.

Basic plan above. Could be written into a macro to take the information from the database and put it into excel to calculate points. Everytime you open the spreadsheet, the list updates. Surely someone at Hibs can write a macro or at least google how to do it.

Edit; I’m an AST so doesn’t effect me at the moment personally, but we all know the pain of trying to get tickets online.

You'd still get people moaning that it devalues the season ticket/costs too much.

And judging by the complaints about thw FF lower you'll probably get people moaning that non attendees are getting 'attendance points'.

The hardest bit is trying to please the masses, in hindsight the best time to implement a system with minimal hassle would have been when we were crap and had no scramble for tickets.

[Borderhibbie76]

Spot on mate and I don't go to neither Parkhead or Ibrox and never overly fussed about Tiny neither - though I do attend all other away games.

So again like you it's not really a personal issue for me but the current system is a complete and utter farce.

It's Dempsters one big failing so far at Hibs and it's something she really needs to address asap

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[Kojock]

I agree, it does need to be looked at again. No matter what the club do though a large vocal group will not be happy.

It's simple the folk who go to the majority of away games think they (and quite rightly so) should not miss out on tickets for the so called big 3, want a loyalty system introduced. The folk who don't go to many, if any away games but still fancy a trip to Tynecastle don't want a loyalty points system introduced.

[marinello59]

It's simple the folk who go to the majority of away games think they (and quite rightly so) should not miss out on tickets for the so called big 3, want a loyalty system introduced. The folk who don't go to many, if any away games but still fancy a trip to Tynecastle don't want a loyalty points system introduced.

So the vast majority of fans don't want a loyalty points system introduced then? Case closed? :greengrin

[matty_f]

I personally thought the away season ticket was a good solution to this - folk who go week in/week out on that scheme will have got a ticket for Tiny no bother, without (AFAIK) needing to go online to buy it etc.

I would think that the away season ticket holders are the ones who would fill the highest number of loyalty points anyway, and then the next tier would be those that go to some, but not all, away games, in which case I'm not convinved there's a massive case for them to be prioritised over season ticket holders necessarily.

[LaMotta]

No from me as I have managed to get to the past 3 games at Tynecastle and managed the 2-1 win at Ibrox last season. System causes me no issues :confused:


I suspect he is a young person who is savvy with computers which allows him to tilt the odds in his favour over all the old codgers on here like me.


Nah not buying that. Me and others I know have used various wifi connections, laptops, desktops, tablets and phones, using a variety of different browsers, logging in at lots of different times, sometimes refreshing pages other times not.

There's no technique to it.

[Blaster]

Nah not buying that. Me and others I know have used various wifi connections, laptops, desktops, tablets and phones, using a variety of different browsers, logging in at lots of different times, sometimes refreshing pages other times not.

There's no technique to it.

I might be wrong here but I thought that there were something like 20 ‘queues’

You join one of those queues and are dependant on how quickly or slowly the folk in front of you go. You could be in a queue with folk only getting a single ticket or in one where folk are getting 4 and take their full allocated time to purchase

So, yes, a lottery

[SHODAN]

It's simple the folk who go to the majority of away games think they (and quite rightly so) should not miss out on tickets for the so called big 3, want a loyalty system introduced. The folk who don't go to many, if any away games but still fancy a trip to Tynecastle don't want a loyalty points system introduced.

A loyalty points system would also give more incentive for fans to go to less "fashionable" away games. I go to less than I did in previous seasons but would try and attend a few more if it bumped me up in the queue for tickets at Tynecastle.

[Ozyhibby]

I personally thought the away season ticket was a good solution to this - folk who go week in/week out on that scheme will have got a ticket for Tiny no bother, without (AFAIK) needing to go online to buy it etc.

I would think that the away season ticket holders are the ones who would fill the highest number of loyalty points anyway, and then the next tier would be those that go to some, but not all, away games, in which case I'm not convinved there's a massive case for them to be prioritised over season ticket holders necessarily.

That’s what I thought. The away season ticket is a great deal for those who travel regularly and I have no objection to it being extended if need be.
Get an away season ticket and be guaranteed a Tynecastle ticket. Don’t get one and you take your chances with the home season ticket holders. Very simple formula. Very little admin and very little scope for complaints which means cheap for Hibs to run.


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[Speedy]

That’s what I thought. The away season ticket is a great deal for those who travel regularly and I have no objection to it being extended if need be.
Get an away season ticket and be guaranteed a Tynecastle ticket. Don’t get one and you take your chances with the home season ticket holders. Very simple formula. Very little admin and very little scope for complaints which means cheap for Hibs to run.


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This isn't directed at you but on the topic of AST...

The thing that confuses me is that there were lots of complaints about the loyalty point scheme (it devalues season tickets) and in particular HSL (devalues STs and allows people to buy their way to the top) but the AST has exactly the same impact and there's hardly a peep. In fact, a big difference between the two is that instead of extra income going to Hibs, it is guaranteed income going to competitors regardless of whether our fans go or not.

For what it's worth I'm comfortable with either but when fan reaction defies logic it really shows what the club is up against.

[matty_f]

This isn't directed at you but on the topic of AST...

The thing that confuses me is that there were lots of complaints about the loyalty point scheme (it devalues season tickets) and in particular HSL (devalues STs and allows people to buy their way to the top) but the AST has exactly the same impact and there's hardly a peep. In fact, a big difference between the two is that instead of extra income going to Hibs, it is guaranteed income going to competitors regardless of whether our fans go or not.

For what it's worth I'm comfortable with either but when fan reaction defies logic it really shows what the club is up against.

I would guess that the vast majority of away season ticket holders are season ticket holders as well, and if it means other season ticket holders still have a shout at getting tickets to the bigger away games I think most folk would be happy enough with that arrangement.

Loyalty points could, I suppose, leave some season ticket holders with no chance of a ticket to these games, which isn't right (imho).

I don't think there is a solution that ticks all boxes for everyone, and the biggest issue is that folk will complain until the solution meets their specific needs.

I'm not fussed one way or the other, really - I only go to a handful of away games each season but have a season ticket. I would like to think that if I did fancy a derby at Tiny or away to Rangers or Celtic, that I would have a chance of going, though.

[WestStandWillie]

Our fans reps have already told us (that they have been told) they will not be brought back.

Fans reps are a waste of time

[Hermit Crab]

Our fans reps have already told us (that they have been told) they will not be brought back.


As fans reps they should be pushing for them to be brought back, fans reps are supposed to be liaising with the club asking for what the fans want within reason. They shouldn't really be accepting No as an answer when a clear majority want them brought back.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I would guess that the vast majority of away season ticket holders are season ticket holders as well, and if it means other season ticket holders still have a shout at getting tickets to the bigger away games I think most folk would be happy enough with that arrangement.

Loyalty points could, I suppose, leave some season ticket holders with no chance of a ticket to these games, which isn't right (imho).

I don't think there is a solution that ticks all boxes for everyone, and the biggest issue is that folk will complain until the solution meets their specific needs.

I'm not fussed one way or the other, really - I only go to a handful of away games each season but have a season ticket. I would like to think that if I did fancy a derby at Tiny or away to Rangers or Celtic, that I would have a chance of going, though.

All away ST have a home ST.

I rarely go to away games but think a points system should be in place.

[Danderhall Hibs]

As fans reps they should be pushing for them to be brought back, fans reps are supposed to be liaising with the club asking for what the fans want within reason. They shouldn't really be accepting No as an answer when a clear majority want them brought back.

:agree: I was thinking this last night - whoever stands next should use this on their manifesto. Even that should beat promising they’ll engage more often on the forums.

[Hermit Crab]

:agree: I was thinking this last night - whoever stands next should use this on their manifesto. Even that should beat promising they’ll engage more often on the forums.


They are meant to be pains in the erse for the club to deal with, very much like union reps.

[WestStandWillie]

They are meant to be pains in the erse for the club to deal with, very much like union reps.

But they'll no dae that cause they dinnae want to upset the apple cart.

Fans reps get elected then go aw starry eyed as they rub shoulders with the board. Nowt against Frank but he must not be elected again.

[Danderhall Hibs]

They are meant to be pains in the erse for the club to deal with, very much like union reps.

They’d be better having a good relationship with the board where they can influence. Traditional union stuff won’t work.

Just agreeing with the board and not challenging them can’t be the way to go. In fact I reckon LD would welcome a challenge - any good manager I’ve worked for in the past welcomes it and thrives when being challenged.

[WestStandWillie]

Just move the game to Murrayfield :greengrin

[jgl07]

I would guess that the vast majority of away season ticket holders are season ticket holders as well, and if it means other season ticket holders still have a shout at getting tickets to the bigger away games I think most folk would be happy enough with that arrangement.

Loyalty points could, I suppose, leave some season ticket holders with no chance of a ticket to these games, which isn't right (imho).


Not if the ticket allocation scheme is designed correctly.

Other clubs stagger ticket allocations using loyalty points.

First allocation to season ticket holders with greater than (say) 500 points.

Then season ticket holders with more than 250 points

...

Season ticket holders with less than 50 points.

Then non-season ticket holder with greater than 500 points.

etc. etc.

It would make buying ticket for big games far less stressful and avoid IT meltdowns with everyone trying to get on at once.

The opposition to loyalty points is Neanderthal

[ancient hibee]

As fans reps they should be pushing for them to be brought back, fans reps are supposed to be liaising with the club asking for what the fans want within reason. They shouldn't really be accepting No as an answer when a clear majority want them brought back.

Clear majority? Where?

[HibeeHibernian4]

Clear majority? Where?

62% on this poll, and then on this one on Twitter it's absolutely overwhelming at 81%: https://twitter.com/FourInHandHSC/status/1052566575935574021

[Jackh]

Fans reps are a waste of time

Fact.

[Hermit Crab]

Clear majority? Where?


62% on this poll, and then on this one on Twitter it's absolutely overwhelming at 81%: https://twitter.com/FourInHandHSC/status/1052566575935574021


Thats the one I meant. Don't have twitter though.

[BoomtownHibees]

62% on this poll, and then on this one on Twitter it's absolutely overwhelming at 81%: https://twitter.com/FourInHandHSC/status/1052566575935574021

143% overall, that is overwhelming!!!

[Hermit Crab]

143% overall, that is overwhelming!!!


And if the news about some poor bugger having their tickets cancelled due to a double booking is true then we surely have to look at the points coming back.

[ancient hibee]

62% on this poll, and then on this one on Twitter it's absolutely overwhelming at 81%: https://twitter.com/FourInHandHSC/status/1052566575935574021

You’re talking about a handful of people.The overwhelming majority don’t seem to give a monkey’s.

[SunshineOnLeith]

And if the news about some poor bugger having their tickets cancelled due to a double booking is true then we surely have to look at the points coming back.

It's not though, is it.

Bet you're gutted.

[Hermit Crab]

It's not though, is it.

Bet you're gutted.


Why would I be gutted?

[Ozyhibby]

62% on this poll, and then on this one on Twitter it's absolutely overwhelming at 81%: https://twitter.com/FourInHandHSC/status/1052566575935574021

A poll conducted by a supporters club that takes fans to away games is showing a majority in favour of rewarding fans who go to away games with guaranteed Tynecastle tickets? I’m shocked. [emoji23]


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[Danderhall Hibs]

A poll conducted by a supporters club that takes fans to away games is showing a majority in favour of rewarding fans who go to away games with guaranteed Tynecastle tickets? I’m shocked. [emoji23]


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They don’t take over 1000 to each game though - just the one 53 seater usually.

[My_Wife_Camille]

You’re talking about a handful of people.The overwhelming majority don’t seem to give a monkey’s.
Around 1500 people voted in only 24 hours. That’s a very good number of participants for such a small timeframe.

[My_Wife_Camille]

A poll conducted by a supporters club that takes fans to away games is showing a majority in favour of rewarding fans who go to away games with guaranteed Tynecastle tickets? I’m shocked. [emoji23]


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1. The poll is open to all twitter users, not just their own members.

2. The poll question doesn’t appear use any language designed to persuade anyone to vote in a particular way

3. The vote had just short of 1,500 votes. That supporters club will have less than 50 members and not all of them will even have Twitter. Of the 1500 votes you’ll be lucky if 20 of them actually came from members of the supporters club. In other words you could completely ignore all the votes that come from their members and you’d still have an 80-20 split.

[SHODAN]

I don't get this whole "we tried loyalty points once, you all moaned about it, therefore we're NEVER DOING IT AGAIN and you'll all just have to do the lottery thing" argument from the club.

Some people moaned about loyalty points. EVERYONE moans about the current system yet nothing is done about it.

[Hermit Crab]

I don't get this whole "we tried loyalty points once, you all moaned about it, therefore we're NEVER DOING IT AGAIN and you'll all just have to do the lottery thing" argument from the club.

Some people moaned about loyalty points. EVERYONE moans about the current system yet nothing is done about it.

The folk that moaned were the ones that didn't have enough points for the big games, but they knew they wouldn't have enough if they didn't go to the smaller games.

[Skol]

Why can we not have a ballot system for the away games likely to see out and the club try to ensure they meet as much demand as possible.

If you apply for all 6 you might get to see 3. If you apply for both Hearts games most will get to see one of them. Some of those applying for all 6 may not get to Tynecastle as with some who only appy for Tynecastle might miss out

If you do miss out and apply next season you are top of the list.

[StevieC]

For me it has to simply be about season tickets and away games. And as an out of town supporter that would actually disadvantage me as I often use the PATG option for away games.

No points for having a season ticket, although season ticket holders get priority, and no points for anything else (such as HSL, merchandise, etc.).

Don't get the 200 points for this, 50 points for that either. 1 point for an away game - and that's it.

Let the scheme run for a year, to see who goes to away games, then implement it at the start of the following season.

[we are hibs]

The poll seems to suggest that it's not the overwhelming majority that want loyalty points back that many on here suggest..

[My_Wife_Camille]

The poll seems to suggest that it's not the overwhelming majority that want loyalty points back that many on here suggest..
The poll on twitter with well over 1000 more voters suggests it is

[flash]

It's a no from me. Our most regular attenders are catered for by away season tickets. After that a chance of a ticket is one of the attractions of buying a season ticket.

[flash]

1. The poll is open to all twitter users, not just their own members.

2. The poll question doesn’t appear use any language designed to persuade anyone to vote in a particular way

3. The vote had just short of 1,500 votes. That supporters club will have less than 50 members and not all of them will even have Twitter. Of the 1500 votes you’ll be lucky if 20 of them actually came from members of the supporters club. In other words you could completely ignore all the votes that come from their members and you’d still have an 80-20 split.

To be fair anyone with a twitter account can vote not just Hibs fans. If it was a Hertz poll i would be voting the way i thought would cause their club the most problems.

[marinello59]

The poll on twitter with well over 1000 more voters suggests it is

I’ve seen twitter polls with much more voters than that where the vote for Scottish Independence was over 90%. I think we should replace polling stations with twitter polls. :greengrin

[we are hibs]

The poll on twitter with well over 1000 more voters suggests it is

Forgot our fan base was made up of around 1000 fans

[My_Wife_Camille]

To be fair anyone with a twitter account can vote not just Hibs fans. If it was a Hertz poll i would be voting the way i thought would cause their club the most problems.
That’s true but if it was the case then the results would have shown a greater objection towards loyalty points when you consider the fact that Hearts, among others, use a loyalty points system that the fans generally feel positive towards.



I’ve seen twitter polls with much more voters than that where the vote for Scottish Independence was over 90%. I think we should replace polling stations with twitter polls. :greengrin
I hear you, and to be fair it has been addressed by the supporters club

“We know that this poll isn’t a definitive or conclusive representation of the supporters thoughts as a whole. However a sample size of 1437 fans in which 1164 voted in favour of loyalty points does indicate that there is a strong desire for their return”

[My_Wife_Camille]

Forgot our fan base was made up of around 1000 fans
As opposed to the poll of 107 that you were basing your conclusions on?

In any case, polls of all types only ever take a sample view and a sample of nearly 1500 opinions in just 24 hours is as good a representation as any. Certainly better than a sample view of 107 (which has also voted in favour of them by the way).

[Since90+2]

I'm surprised how close the poll is to be honest.

[Ozyhibby]

That’s true but if it was the case then the results would have shown a greater objection towards loyalty points when you consider the fact that Hearts, among others, use a loyalty points system that the fans generally feel positive towards.



I hear you, and to be fair it has been addressed by the supporters club

“We know that this poll isn’t a definitive or conclusive representation of the supporters thoughts as a whole. However a sample size of 1437 fans in which 1164 voted in favour of loyalty points does indicate that there is a strong desire for their return”

‘Among people who follow a twitter account for Hibs supporters who travel to away games’


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[My_Wife_Camille]

‘Among people who follow a twitter account for Hibs supporters who travel to away games’


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You said that already. Please see the posts below.

If you take away the 50 or so members that they have which may have a vested interest
(which is generously assuming that every one of them has twitter and voted yes on the poll) then you still have a sample vote of around 1,400 to try and discredit.


They don’t take over 1000 to each game though - just the one 53 seater usually.


1. The poll is open to all twitter users, not just their own members.

2. The poll question doesn’t appear use any language designed to persuade anyone to vote in a particular way

3. The vote had just short of 1,500 votes. That supporters club will have less than 50 members and not all of them will even have Twitter. Of the 1500 votes you’ll be lucky if 20 of them actually came from members of the supporters club. In other words you could completely ignore all the votes that come from their members and you’d still have an 80-20 split.

[Ozyhibby]

You said that already. Please see the posts below.

If you take away the 50 or so members that they have which may have a vested interest
(which is generously assuming that every one of them has twitter and voted yes on the poll) then you still have a sample vote of around 1,400 to try and discredit.

You don’t think it’s possible that they may be followed more by fans who travel to away games but not with them than fans in general?


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[My_Wife_Camille]

You don’t think it’s possible that they may be followed more by fans who travel to away games but not with them than fans in general?


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It’s certainly possible but as I say, it’s an open poll available to everyone and not just their followers.

In any case, having looked though the tweets on that account it doesn’t appear to have any history of discussing ‘supporters rights’ or anything similar at all. It does actually appear to just be a generic fans account mainly with polls, pictures and match updates similar to here.

[Kojock]

It's a no from me. Our most regular attenders are catered for by away season tickets. After that a chance of a ticket is one of the attractions of buying a season ticket.

I think you will find that a fair few AST holders want a points system reintroduced.

[LancashireHibby]

It's a no from me. Our most regular attenders are catered for by away season tickets. After that a chance of a ticket is one of the attractions of buying a season ticket.
Why should someone who only travels as far as Tynecastle have the same entitlement to a ticket as someone who can’t commit to an away season ticket but still travels to 10+ games a season?

[SChibs]

You’re talking about a handful of people.The overwhelming majority don’t seem to give a monkey’s.

That's because the vast majority of people don't go to away games so it doesn't affect them. The only people likely to vote in the poll are the ones it would affect

[SChibs]

It's a no from me. Our most regular attenders are catered for by away season tickets. After that a chance of a ticket is one of the attractions of buying a season ticket.

Total rubbish. So you are saying someone who goes to 15/18 away games a season should have the same chance as someone who goes to 0/18?

[hongkonghibee]

something missing from this thread is income disparity amongst supporters. Some fans on very low income, may be just as passionate and loyal to hibernian football club, as those that can afford to go to every home match and to any away matches. Away matches are a very expensive day out. i dont understand this idea that its a hardship to travel to watch hibs play anywhere (including cowdenbeath on a wet night) is ridiculous. Its something very low income people and families would love to be able to do. Also what about people who work long hours and shift work, they cant go to every match, but im sure they would love to, does that make them less loyal than those that have jobs that fit in to hibs match times. We need to think of others more, rather than our own situation. Thats why i oppose the loyalty scheme.

[West lower]

Total rubbish. So you are saying someone who goes to 15/18 away games a season should have the same chance as someone who goes to 0/18?

It’s not total rubbish. That is exactly the clubs stance. We sell season tickets and we try to encourage more people to buy them by giving them the incentive of tickets for big games. While our season ticket sales continue to rise they won’t be changing it. It’s all about maximum revenue to put the best team on the park.

I can can see both sides point of view. Difficult one.

[flash]

Total rubbish. So you are saying someone who goes to 15/18 away games a season should have the same chance as someone who goes to 0/18?

Yes.

[221000]

I feel we need a poll to ascertain whether or not polls on hibs.net are trustworthy of the actual fans pov on subjects.

[Ozyhibby]

It’s not total rubbish. That is exactly the clubs stance. We sell season tickets and we try to encourage more people to buy them by giving them the incentive of tickets for big games. While our season ticket sales continue to rise they won’t be changing it. It’s all about maximum revenue to put the best team on the park.

I can can see both sides point of view. Difficult one.

Exactly. Season tickets are the most important revenue stream for the club. Anything that devalues the season ticket should not even be considered in my opinion.


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[Kojock]

something missing from this thread is income disparity amongst supporters. Some fans on very low income, may be just as passionate and loyal to hibernian football club, as those that can afford to go to every home match and to any away matches. Away matches are a very expensive day out. i dont understand this idea that its a hardship to travel to watch hibs play anywhere (including cowdenbeath on a wet night) is ridiculous. Its something very low income people and families would love to be able to do. Also what about people who work long hours and shift work, they cant go to every match, but im sure they would love to, does that make them less loyal than those that have jobs that fit in to hibs match times. We need to think of others more, rather than our own situation. Thats why i oppose the loyalty scheme.

You say you oppose a loyalty scheme because it's unfair to low income families etc. What about a low income family who cannot afford the upfront costs of a season ticket and are unable to get credit or don't want to tie themselves into the monthly repayment plan and attend several home and away games as a PATG supporter. A loyalty point scheme would be of benefit to them.

[SChibs]

something missing from this thread is income disparity amongst supporters. Some fans on very low income, may be just as passionate and loyal to hibernian football club, as those that can afford to go to every home match and to any away matches. Away matches are a very expensive day out. i dont understand this idea that its a hardship to travel to watch hibs play anywhere (including cowdenbeath on a wet night) is ridiculous. Its something very low income people and families would love to be able to do. Also what about people who work long hours and shift work, they cant go to every match, but im sure they would love to, does that make them less loyal than those that have jobs that fit in to hibs match times. We need to think of others more, rather than our own situation. Thats why i oppose the loyalty scheme.

Then use a ballot system. What about people who can't buy tickets online when they go on sale cause they are working?

[SHODAN]

Then use a ballot system. What about people who can't buy tickets online when they go on sale cause they are working?

Exactly.

If you're going to make it random chance then make it fair random chance. I'd love to hear the argument that people who can take time off work or have multiple devices are more deserving of tickets.

[WhileTheChief..]

I’m surprised there’s such a clamour for tickets at Tynie and Ibrox with all the bigots and sectarian singing that goes on there.

Usually folk on here tell us how offended they are by it but now they’re worried they might miss out!

Baffling really.

[Lix]

My tuppence worth.

Spurs are away to West Ham this w/end, and like every away game in EPL ST holders have a window of normally 5 days ish) to apply.
If 15k apply for 3k tickets the highest 3000 folk with LP are successful, Spurs announce that cut of point is such n such and those with 383pts or more get a ticket.
If someone in your group of say 10 has 382 then tough.

Now, this is where I disagree with a LP system.... The same 3k folk always get the away tickets, I will never have enough pts because folk point harvest and resell said away ticket, and there is a huge market for this, some folk are happy to spend £30 (away tickets in EPL are capped at 30quid) just for the pts.

Non ST have zero chance, generally of an away ticket, unless buying from a point harvester.

I see both sides of this debate. But I'd rather a slim chance of say Chelsea away in a ballot than zero.

Regards
Mr Lix

[Danderhall Hibs]

My tuppence worth.

Spurs are away to West Ham this w/end, and like every away game in EPL ST holders have a window of normally 5 days ish) to apply.
If 15k apply for 3k tickets the highest 3000 folk with LP are successful, Spurs announce that cut of point is such n such and those with 383pts or more get a ticket.
If someone in your group of say 10 has 382 then tough.

Now, this is where I disagree with a LP system.... The same 3k folk always get the away tickets, I will never have enough pts because folk point harvest and resell said away ticket, and there is a huge market for this, some folk are happy to spend £30 (away tickets in EPL are capped at 30quid) just for the pts.

Non ST have zero chance, generally of an away ticket, unless buying from a point harvester.

I see both sides of this debate. But I'd rather a slim chance of say Chelsea away in a ballot than zero.

Regards
Mr Lix

Any idea how this impacts on sales of home STs? Do folk stay away completely cos they can’t get to away games?

[Lix]

Any idea how this impacts on sales of home STs? Do folk stay away completely cos they can’t get to away games?

I would've thought it has no bearing whatsoever, you buy a ST to watch every home game, that's all.

Regards
Mr Lix

[Danderhall Hibs]

I would've thought it has no bearing whatsoever, you buy a ST to watch every home game, that's all.

Regards
Mr Lix

I would’ve thought the same - there seems to be a few on here who think differently though.

[Ozyhibby]

I would’ve thought the same - there seems to be a few on here who think differently though.

If you miss 2/3, maybe more home games a season then the season ticket does not make financial sense but there are people who keep getting one because it give them access to big games. You can see that every game at Easter road when you see all the empty seats in sold out stands. Not everyone can make every game but they commit to the season ticket because it has other benefits over and above entry to home games. Take one of those benefits away and less people will buy. I would have thought that was obvious.


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[HibeeHibernian4]

Why can we not have a ballot system for the away games likely to see out and the club try to ensure they meet as much demand as possible.

If you apply for all 6 you might get to see 3. If you apply for both Hearts games most will get to see one of them. Some of those applying for all 6 may not get to Tynecastle as with some who only appy for Tynecastle might miss out

If you do miss out and apply next season you are top of the list.

Good idea, why not extend the ballot system for every away game, in that case?

Oh, that's right, half of the people who try for Tynecastle tickets have absolutely zero interest in going to any other Hibs away game. Silly me.

[SHODAN]

Best loyalty points system would be a set number of points for STs (and previous season's ST) and then a fixed number of points for every non-home game, with those points removed if our allocation sells out. Ensures that people will be rewarded only for away games without a high demand.

[Danderhall Hibs]

If you miss 2/3, maybe more home games a season then the season ticket does not make financial sense but there are people who keep getting one because it give them access to big games. You can see that every game at Easter road when you see all the empty seats in sold out stands. Not everyone can make every game but they commit to the season ticket because it has other benefits over and above entry to home games. Take one of those benefits away and less people will buy. I would have thought that was obvious.


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Not to me. I won’t stop going to home games cos I might not be able to go to an away game.

[Ozyhibby]

Not to me. I won’t stop going to home games cos I might not be able to go to an away game.

I’m not saying they will stop going to any games, I’m saying that they may decide not to bother with the season ticket and just pay at the gate if it make more financial sense. The club would prefer people to get the season ticket because it means certainty for the playing budget.


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[Danderhall Hibs]

I’m not saying they will stop going to any games, I’m saying that they may decide not to bother with the season ticket and just pay at the gate if it make more financial sense. The club would prefer people to get the season ticket because it means certainty for the playing budget.


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Genuinely can’t see that happening.

If they did though it’d mean less admin for the club so every cloud...

[Since90+2]

Genuinely can’t see that happening.

If they did though it’d mean less admin for the club so every cloud...

Surely it'd be more admin for the club if they were purchasing individual home tickets instead of a one off season ticket purchase?

[Lix]

Also, I think Hibs should be looking at a membership scheme to cater for the supporters who can't attend every game. They pay an annual fee, they get sent a membership card and when they buy a single game online or in the TO, the access is loaded onto the card. They then take a note of seats details with them to that game, and then accrue LP's for semi's and finals. That way they will have priority over real day trippers.

Maybe we should also be looking at capping the amount of ST's we sell.... That will then drive demand for the above scheme and unlock another revenue stream.

Regards
Mr Lix

[Ozyhibby]

Surely it'd be more admin for the club if they were purchasing individual home tickets instead of a one off season ticket purchase?

Not to mention the loss of income from season ticket sales.


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[Ozyhibby]

Also, I think Hibs should be looking at a membership scheme to cater for the supporters who can't attend every game. They pay an annual fee, they get sent a membership card and when they buy a single game online or in the TO, the access is loaded onto the card. They then take a note of seats details with them to that game, and then accrue LP's for semi's and finals. That way they will have priority over real day trippers.

Maybe we should also be looking at capping the amount of ST's we sell.... That will then drive demand for the above scheme and unlock another revenue stream.

Regards
Mr Lix

Stop people from buying season tickets? [emoji23][emoji122]


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[LancashireHibby]

My tuppence worth.

Spurs are away to West Ham this w/end, and like every away game in EPL ST holders have a window of normally 5 days ish) to apply.
If 15k apply for 3k tickets the highest 3000 folk with LP are successful, Spurs announce that cut of point is such n such and those with 383pts or more get a ticket.
If someone in your group of say 10 has 382 then tough.

Now, this is where I disagree with a LP system.... The same 3k folk always get the away tickets, I will never have enough pts because folk point harvest and resell said away ticket, and there is a huge market for this, some folk are happy to spend £30 (away tickets in EPL are capped at 30quid) just for the pts.

Non ST have zero chance, generally of an away ticket, unless buying from a point harvester.

I see both sides of this debate. But I'd rather a slim chance of say Chelsea away in a ballot than zero.

Regards
Mr Lix

That would only become an issue if we started to sell out for EVERY game which let’s be honest, is literally never going to happen. People will have plenty of opportunities to build up their points for the away games outside of Hearts/Rangers/Celtic.

[Lix]

Stop people from buying season tickets? [emoji23][emoji122]


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You obviously haven't thought about it much.

Hibs selling 1000 tickets for every game generates more money than selling 1000 ST's ever will.

Stadium capacity minus 3800 in away end, leaves about 2000 free seats to be sold atm.

The other week there was about 25 blokes up in Edinburgh from England for the weekend who attended the Hamilton match. Also, incase it has escaped your attention we have a large amount of overseas fans from many different countries who would be locked out if we sold say 16k ST's... Bit stupid eh.

Regards
Mr Lix

[Lix]

That would only become an issue if we started to sell out for EVERY game which let’s be honest, is literally never going to happen. People will have plenty of opportunities to build up their points for the away games outside of Hearts/Rangers/Celtic.

It has nothing to do with selling out every home game... Atm our ST number already outstrips every away game bar Hampden


Regards
Mr Lix

[HibeeHibernian4]

It has nothing to do with selling out every home game... Atm our ST number already outstrips every away game bar Hampden

Regards
Mr Lix

Yeah and guess what, we barely sell out an allocation outwith Tynecastle, Ibrox or Parkhead - and until a few seasons ago, we barely ever sold out those allocations either. Anyone who wants a ticket for Ibrox or Parkhead (while our allocation is pitifully small, which I hope Hibs will fight to improve) has every chance to do so by going to some of the 'less desirable' games. With Hearts, it's so simple, the 1,500 odd travelling Hibs support are given first priority, and then there are still 2,000 tickets left for season ticket holders who do not follow Hibs away to go after.

[Ozyhibby]

You obviously haven't thought about it much.

Hibs selling 1000 tickets for every game generates more money than selling 1000 ST's ever will.

Stadium capacity minus 3800 in away end, leaves about 2000 free seats to be sold atm.

The other week there was about 25 blokes up in Edinburgh from England for the weekend who attended the Hamilton match. Also, incase it has escaped your attention we have a large amount of overseas fans from many different countries who would be locked out if we sold say 16k ST's... Bit stupid eh.

Regards
Mr Lix

Sorry, you’ll have to explain it to me again. Why do you want us to cap the amount of season tickets we sell?


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[B.H.F.C]

You obviously haven't thought about it much.

Hibs selling 1000 tickets for every game generates more money than selling 1000 ST's ever will.

Stadium capacity minus 3800 in away end, leaves about 2000 free seats to be sold atm.

The other week there was about 25 blokes up in Edinburgh from England for the weekend who attended the Hamilton match. Also, incase it has escaped your attention we have a large amount of overseas fans from many different countries who would be locked out if we sold say 16k ST's... Bit stupid eh.

Regards
Mr Lix

The thought of Hibs turning away a guaranteed £400 in case some guy on his holidays wants to go to a game is utterly mental.

[WhileTheChief..]

Also, I think Hibs should be looking at a membership scheme to cater for the supporters who can't attend every game. They pay an annual fee, they get sent a membership card and when they buy a single game online or in the TO, the access is loaded onto the card. They then take a note of seats details with them to that game, and then accrue LP's for semi's and finals. That way they will have priority over real day trippers.

Maybe we should also be looking at capping the amount of ST's we sell.... That will then drive demand for the above scheme and unlock another revenue stream.

Regards
Mr Lix

Pretty sure we tried this before back around the time Hughes was manager?

You paid £50 for the season to be a member. It ensured you were able to get a ticket for Hampden as they took priority over a public sale. ST holders obviously still came first.

Not sure if it offered any benefit for buying away tickets though?

[hongkonghibee]

You say you oppose a loyalty scheme because it's unfair to low income families etc. What about a low income family who cannot afford the upfront costs of a season ticket and are unable to get credit or don't want to tie themselves into the monthly repayment plan and attend several home and away games as a PATG supporter. A loyalty point scheme would be of benefit to them.

yes, i understand that. But that person would always have less loyalty points than season ticket holders, so would still never get a chance on popular away tickets, so it would not be a benifit to them in practice i think.
After away season ticket holders, then maybe simply a ballot of everyone on the clubs database who opts -in would be the simplest and fairest way.
I dont like the competitive and divisive part of human nature that seems to come from "i have more loyalty points than you" .

[Ozyhibby]

The thought of Hibs turning away a guaranteed £400 in case some guy on his holidays wants to go to a game is utterly mental.

Anything to make getting tickets for Tynecastle easier I think. [emoji23]


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[LancashireHibby]

It has nothing to do with selling out every home game... Atm our ST number already outstrips every away game bar Hampden


Regards
Mr Lix
Apologies if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick, but you were referring to people not getting a look in at applying for away games and therefore not having the chance to build up their own loyalty point total via attending away games because they’re already oversubscribed, but we have tonnes of away games that people can easily buy tickets for and build up their points total so your scenario would only come in to play if we sold out every away game. Home games are irrelevant as this would only apply to season ticket holders anyway who as a starting point would have an automatic x number of points.

[StevieC]

Best loyalty points system would be a set number of points for STs (and previous season's ST)

Why do you need points for season tickets? Every season ticket holder gets priority, the only thing you need points for is attendance at away games.

[Hermit Crab]

My tuppence worth.

Spurs are away to West Ham this w/end, and like every away game in EPL ST holders have a window of normally 5 days ish) to apply.
If 15k apply for 3k tickets the highest 3000 folk with LP are successful, Spurs announce that cut of point is such n such and those with 383pts or more get a ticket.
If someone in your group of say 10 has 382 then tough.

Now, this is where I disagree with a LP system.... The same 3k folk always get the away tickets, I will never have enough pts because folk point harvest and resell said away ticket, and there is a huge market for this, some folk are happy to spend £30 (away tickets in EPL are capped at 30quid) just for the pts.

Non ST have zero chance, generally of an away ticket, unless buying from a point harvester.

I see both sides of this debate. But I'd rather a slim chance of say Chelsea away in a ballot than zero.

Regards
Mr Lix


This is how I get a lot of Man City away tickets, I will never have enough points for big away games so I have to go looking for spares and I can accept that.

[LaMotta]

Why do you need points for season tickets? Every season ticket holder gets priority, the only thing you need points for is attendance at away games.

And home cup games too!

[WhileTheChief..]

EPL away tickets capped at £30?

You’d have thought Hearts would follow suit with them being a big club and all.

[Baldy Foghorn]

yes, i understand that. But that person would always have less loyalty points than season ticket holders, so would still never get a chance on popular away tickets, so it would not be a benifit to them in practice i think.
After away season ticket holders, then maybe simply a ballot of everyone on the clubs database who opts -in would be the simplest and fairest way.
I dont like the competitive and divisive part of human nature that seems to come from "i have more loyalty points than you" .

It's not a competition, but surely it's simplistic. The more games you attend the better chance of getting big game tickets.

If someone attends 15 away games and someone attends none, why should they have same chance for a derby ticket?

It really isn't rocket science

[WhileTheChief..]

There’s been 16 pages discussing it and if anything we should know it’s not as cut and dried as that though.

Maybe we need a rocket scientist to come in and figure it out for us!

[HibeeHibernian4]

There’s been 16 pages discussing it and if anything we should know it’s not as cut and dried as that though.

Maybe we need a rocket scientist to come in and figure it out for us!

Unless you have an inability to grasp basic fairness, then it’s cut and dry has been figured out.

[Hibeewilly]

It's not a competition, but surely it's simplistic. The more games you attend the better chance of getting big game tickets.

If someone attends 15 away games and someone attends none, why should they have same chance for a derby ticket?

It really isn't rocket science
That's just too sensible BF!!!

[Kojock]

It's not a competition, but surely it's simplistic. The more games you attend the better chance of getting big game tickets.

If someone attends 15 away games and someone attends none, why should they have same chance for a derby ticket?

It really isn't rocket science

It really is that simple.

[Ozyhibby]

It's not a competition, but surely it's simplistic. The more games you attend the better chance of getting big game tickets.

If someone attends 15 away games and someone attends none, why should they have same chance for a derby ticket?

It really isn't rocket science

Because the club don’t want to harm sales of season tickets as they are our biggest revenue stream.
It really isn’t rocket science. [emoji6]


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[WhileTheChief..]

Unless you have an inability to grasp basic fairness, then it’s cut and dry has been figured out.

Everyone understands fairness.

Some just see things differently to others, there’s no right or wrong.

[Ozyhibby]

Everyone understands fairness.

Some just see things differently to others, there’s no right or wrong.

Correct. I have always said I can understand why regular away game goers would want a LP system. It does seem unfair if they miss out on Tynecastle.
My whole point has been about cost to Hibs of running system and loss of season ticket sales.
I think both are legitimate points of view.


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[Eyrie]

Correct. I have always said I can understand why regular away game goers would want a LP system. It does seem unfair if they miss out on Tynecastle.
My whole point has been about cost to Hibs of running system and loss of season ticket sales.
I think both are legitimate points of view.


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I don't see the cost as being a major issue. There are only six away games where a points system would be needed anyway, so it's not like we would need to employ extra staff to operate it. Other clubs (eg Hearts) manage it fine.

Season ticket sales can be protected by simply making a season ticket worth more points than attending games. So buying a season ticket is worth 25 points and 1 point is awarded for a home walk up or attending an away game that isn't sold out. Season ticket holders who regularly attend away games get priority over those who only go to the Tiny PBS, and both take priority over walk ups with the day trippers being last in line when it comes to Hampden.

A points system would ease the admin hassle for Hibs and for the fans because it would mean fewer applicants at each stage of release. That means no frustrations with queues to get on the online system and no missing out for those who can't get online at the appointed hour.

[wookie70]

If you miss 2/3, maybe more home games a season then the season ticket does not make financial sense but there are people who keep getting one because it give them access to big games. You can see that every game at Easter road when you see all the empty seats in sold out stands. Not everyone can make every game but they commit to the season ticket because it has other benefits over and above entry to home games. Take one of those benefits away and less people will buy. I would have thought that was obvious.


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A season tickets allows you to sit in the same seat at ER possibly that seat is next to family and friends. We are selling so many seats now that giving up a ST would mean you couldn't be sure where you would get a ticket at ER. The situation is slightly different to when LD scrapped the scheme and those that said they would give up their ST if devalued may have a different viewpoint. I would call their bluff anyway as we should be getting as many supporters to away games as possible to try and get more points for the team. More points would mean more STs to replace those who threatened to give theirs up due to Loyalty Points.

[Ozyhibby]

I don't see the cost as being a major issue. There are only six away games where a points system would be needed anyway, so it's not like we would need to employ extra staff to operate it. Other clubs (eg Hearts) manage it fine.

Season ticket sales can be protected by simply making a season ticket worth more points than attending games. So buying a season ticket is worth 25 points and 1 point is awarded for a home walk up or attending an away game that isn't sold out. Season ticket holders who regularly attend away games get priority over those who only go to the Tiny PBS, and both take priority over walk ups with the day trippers being last in line when it comes to Hampden.

A points system would ease the admin hassle for Hibs and for the fans because it would mean fewer applicants at each stage of release. That means no frustrations with queues to get on the online system and no missing out for those who can't get online at the appointed hour.

It’s not walk ups who are a threat to season ticket holders access to Tynecastle tickets.
It’s other season ticket holders who travel away as well.


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[Ozyhibby]

A season tickets allows you to sit in the same seat at ER possibly that seat is next to family and friends. We are selling so many seats now that giving up a ST would mean you couldn't be sure where you would get a ticket at ER. The situation is slightly different to when LD scrapped the scheme and those that said they would give up their ST if devalued may have a different viewpoint. I would call their bluff anyway as we should be getting as many supporters to away games as possible to try and get more points for the team. More points would mean more STs to replace those who threatened to give theirs up due to Loyalty Points.

Leeann could call their bluff(some are not bluffing) but why would she for no financial gain to Hibs.
Is there any financial benefit to Hibs in running a loyalty point scheme?


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[HibeeHibernian4]

Leeann could call their bluff(some are not bluffing) but why would she for no financial gain to Hibs.
Is there any financial benefit to Hibs in running a loyalty point scheme?


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Long-term? Yes. Because at some point, sadly, this spell of good times will be over and it’ll be those who follow home and away who will carry on being the lifeblood of Hibs’ support who will carry us over financially. If they keep getting messed around with away tickets, you may lose some of them over the course of the next decade or so.

[wookie70]

Leeann could call their bluff(some are not bluffing) but why would she for no financial gain to Hibs.
Is there any financial benefit to Hibs in running a loyalty point scheme?


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If more support at away games means we finish a position up the league then possibly.

[SChibs]

Because the club don’t want to harm sales of season tickets as they are our biggest revenue stream.
It really isn’t rocket science. [emoji6]


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Is there actually any solid stats to back up the loss of season ticket sales argument? Or is it just stemmed from some people threatening not to renew if they don't get their way basically? Genuine question.

It seems like all you need to do to push through anything at hibs is get enough people to say they will give up their season ticket.

[Ozyhibby]

Is there actually any solid stats to back up the loss of season ticket sales argument? Or is it just stemmed from some people threatening not to renew if they don't get their way basically? Genuine question.

It seems like all you need to do to push through anything at hibs is get enough people to say they will give up their season ticket.

Leeann mentioned that people were cancelling season tickets when it was asked why the LP system was scrapped at an agm. I wasn’t there but I’m sure others will confirm.


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[Eric]

Is there actually any solid stats to back up the loss of season ticket sales argument? Or is it just stemmed from some people threatening not to renew if they don't get their way basically? Genuine question.

It seems like all you need to do to push through anything at hibs is get enough people to say they will give up their season ticket.

Why would any ST holder threat to cease having a ST because of loyalty points, when the previous loyalty point scheme favoured ST holders? Reintroduce loyalty points but, due to the purpose they serve, rename them attendance points. :thumbsup:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Why would any ST holder threat to cease having a ST because of loyalty points, when the previous loyalty point scheme favoured ST holders? Reintroduce loyalty points but, due to the purpose they serve, rename them attendance points. :thumbsup:

:agree: it defies logic.

[McD]

:agree: it defies logic.


:agree:

Are there seriously people who have a season ticket at Easter Road just so they can go to away games at tynecastle? :confused:

if not, I can’t see how it devalues a season ticket to have a loyalty/attendance points scheme, when a season ticket holder will ALWAYS be in the top 2 tranches, at worst. The regular away travellers (those who go to most or more of away games) don’t outnumber the number of tickets we get for tynecastle. Ibrox is a different matter, but they’ve given us so little that there’s always going to be disappointed people. Perhaps the points scheme could have an additional clause similar to the London marathon, if you miss out you’re pushed up the list for the next one.

As for cost to the club, how far do we want to take that line? Should we thin out the number of youth coaches we employ, their wages could help the first team? Could we cut down the electricity bill by only switching on every second light in the concourses? Maybe the guys who run the social media side of our comms could work just part time? Cut the staff in the shop? We used to take the piss and rage about Petrie being a penny pincher.

The club is a multi million pound operation, the costs of a new scheme will be minimal. There’s also been a lot of discussion about the poor quality of food at the stadium, if Hibs were to announce that they had taken steps to rectify this but it had increased the cost/reduced the profits from this by minimal %, I don’t think there would be much discussion about how that had taken funds away from Lennon.

[LaMotta]

Leeann could call their bluff(some are not bluffing) but why would she for no financial gain to Hibs.
Is there any financial benefit to Hibs in running a loyalty point scheme?


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Yes - more tickets sold for home cup games.

[Eyrie]

It’s not walk ups who are a threat to season ticket holders access to Tynecastle tickets.
It’s other season ticket holders who travel away as well.


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And with a points scheme those season ticket holders who do travel will get priority over those who don't.

After the regular travelers are looked after the Tiny PBS will still have tickets available for other season ticket holders who don't normally travel.

And those who want to give up their season tickets because of a points scheme will miss out on the trip to the Tiny PBS.

[StevieC]

It’s not walk ups who are a threat to season ticket holders access to Tynecastle tickets.
It’s other season ticket holders who travel away as well.

I think a loyalty scheme introduced for season ticket holders could actually cement season ticket sales, rather than be detrimental.
If you had a season ticket with a few loyalty points on it you might actually be reluctant to give it up, and focus more on increasing the points on it.

[Ozyhibby]

I think a loyalty scheme introduced for season ticket holders could actually cement season ticket sales, rather than be detrimental.
If you had a season ticket with a few loyalty points on it you might actually be reluctant to give it up, and focus more on increasing the points on it.

The clubs experience was different. People were cancelling season tickets because to have a chance at a Tynecastle ticket you had to go to away games as well. For some people the season ticket make no financial sense but they buy it anyway because it puts them in the hat for Tynecastle tickets.


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[Baldy Foghorn]

Because the club don’t want to harm sales of season tickets as they are our biggest revenue stream.
It really isn’t rocket science. [emoji6]


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Pish, you are buying season ticket for home games. If folk don't buy because of LP system, then they ain't much of a fan are they

[BoomtownHibees]

The clubs experience was different. People were cancelling season tickets because to have a chance at a Tynecastle ticket you had to go to away games as well. For some people the season ticket make no financial sense but they buy it anyway because it puts them in the hat for Tynecastle tickets.


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People cancelled season tickets? Really??

[Danderhall Hibs]

The clubs experience was different. People were cancelling season tickets because to have a chance at a Tynecastle ticket you had to go to away games as well. For some people the season ticket make no financial sense but they buy it anyway because it puts them in the hat for Tynecastle tickets.


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I don’t believe that. I do believe that folk were complaining about loads of stuff (not getting points if paying at the gate etc) but that can be sorted by better communication of what’s in and out and also by stronger and consistent management by the TO.

[Keith_M]

To be honest, Dempster's explanation for cancelling the Loyalty Points system didn't sound very convincing at the time.

She said something along the lines of "I asked eight people on a walk from the main entrance to the ticket office if they wanted it or not".

[Eyrie]

The clubs experience was different. People were cancelling season tickets because to have a chance at a Tynecastle ticket you had to go to away games as well. For some people the season ticket make no financial sense but they buy it anyway because it puts them in the hat for Tynecastle tickets.


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So that means at least 3800 season ticket holders also attended enough away games that there were no Tiny PBS tickets left for the other season ticket holders.