Neil Lennon.

[Geo_1875]

It wasn't just the penalty decision that showed Clancy's incompetence. He failed to do anything about Boyd's incessant moaning in his face, even though as captain he's allowed to ask for explanations. In the first half he was bawling at the referee and ended up throwing the ball away without a booking. He was screaming at the referee to send Efe off when he gave away the free kick on the edge of the box, again no booking. Their centre half was swinging elbows and barging Kamberi off the ball in the second half without a glance from the referee or his assistant. How he managed to award 18 fouls against us and book 4 players while managing to avoid booking any of them would be beyond belief if you didn't know his history with Hibs.

[Stuart93]

100% behind Lennon, although he maybe went a bit OTT I'd rather that than a manager who stands and accepts it happening time & time again. Especially when it's the same referee who didn't award us a penalty for blatant handball vs the rangers. As some have said queue Clancy being in charge for th derby

[Joe6-2]

I do honestly think Neil is correct, 100%, the decision was an absolute disgrace, the previous decisions have been an absolute disgrace. I just wish he went about it in a totally different way, he then turns his argument into a debate about his behaviour, which is now a smokescreen for Clancy's lack of competence by the authorities.

At least we will now have an audience with the beaks at SFA HQ.

Don’t see that making the slightest bit of difference!

[Centre Hawf]

You don't think that's a bit of a hysterical overreaction? FFS, managers go bat-**** crazy on the touchline and get bans all the time. You'd think he'd shat on Clancy's whistle and punched some kids in the teeth from the hand-wringing going on here.

I personally don't think it's a good example he's setting. I don't want him sacked for this like some folk seem to have twisted my words in the original post. I like Neil and I like the job he's doing. But my main point of it was that the board will have to surely speak to him about behaving in a manner that can cost us having our manager in the dugout at the business end of the season, and to ensure that it doesn't happen again. It's not a good situation to be in and there's a way to go about showing his anger/displeasure at a shocking decision.

But that is just my opinion. Apologies for having one.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

There's talk on hear about NL's inevitable ban and how this will affect Hibs. Am I the only one who thinks a manager having to watch from the stand has little impact on performance?

But for the beaks it is a visible slap.

[Sauzee16]

Pretty sure Lennon has said before that he doesn't mind being up in the stand to watch games.

He was a massive Celtic captain leading them vocally on the pitch as he is on the touchline now. Lennon in the stands is a massive loss otherwise why appeal bans etc?

[JimBHibees]

Is he likely to be banned? Levein has arguably done worse this season including pushing a player and not had any ban.

[green day]

Lennon was told by some in the media and the officials after the non goal at Hearts that the linesman couldnt give it as guessing was "the wrong thing to do".

The first goal for Killie on Saturday was given after the linesman and ref had zero view of where the ball was - and basically guessed it was over the line, gave a corner that led to the goal.

I am with Lennon on all of this, the officials are crap - but they could be a little less crap by being consistent.

How the hell is he supposed to react to all of these pish decisions?

[Stokesy's on fire]

His actions today could cost us dearly. He’ll face a huge ban given his previous history! What example does it set to the players.

The players will know that the manager stands by them when they suffer injustices placed upon us by Kevin Clancy and other crap refs

[Thecat23]

The players will know that the manager stands by them when they suffer injustices placed upon us by Kevin Clancy and other crap refs

Manager 100% will be behind the boys that I know. My original post which was taken out of context by a few (not you) was as the face of our club I’d have liked him to have kept his cool. It shows others he can be furious yet controlled. This isn’t a go at Lennon like some seem to think, but it will also take away th honking performance of Clancy as it’s Lennon that will get the media attention.

His interview after he’s bang on, and it’s great we have a manager willing to speak up. But as he done in the interview he can be calm and still get the point across!

[ancient hibee]

I personally don't think it's a good example he's setting. I don't want him sacked for this like some folk seem to have twisted my words in the original post. I like Neil and I like the job he's doing. But my main point of it was that the board will have to surely speak to him about behaving in a manner that can cost us having our manager in the dugout at the business end of the season, and to ensure that it doesn't happen again. It's not a good situation to be in and there's a way to go about showing his anger/displeasure at a shocking decision.

But that is just my opinion. Apologies for having one.
Eddie Turnbull watched all his football from the back row of the directors box.His team is often quoted as the best Hibs team many have seem.Being in the dug out is vastly overrated.

[Thecat23]

Eddie Turnbull watched all his football from the back row of the directors box.His team is often quoted as the best Hibs team many have seem.Being in the dug out is vastly overrated.

Ask Neil Lennon what he prefers I know what he’s say. Folk saying it’s fine are also saying how good it is to have someone so passionate. So surely that will be a huge miss in the dugout? He’s a dugout manager not a stand manager. Everyone is different some like to sit in the stand he doesn’t! Having Lennon in the dugout gives us that little bit extra when we are up against it imo.

We may well win all the games when he sits in the stands and maybe Lennon will become a stand manager, until then I think he’ll be a miss AH.

[Sioux]

Ask Neil Lennon what he prefers I know what he’s say. Folk saying it’s fine are also saying how good it is to have someone so passionate. So surely that will be a huge miss in the dugout? He’s a dugout manager not a stand manager. Everyone is different some like to sit in the stand he doesn’t! Having Lennon in the dugout gives us that little bit extra when we are up against it imo.

We may well win all the games when he sits in the stands and maybe Lennon will become a stand manager, until then I think he’ll be a miss AH.

There's eleven players on the park going about their jobs. They're professionals. Do you think they're going to down tools, or just do whatever they want because Lennon's not pitchside? Get a grip.

If some want to blame a defeat or a draw on a manager being in the stand, they need their heads examined. What if the manager was ill - armageddon? Naw.

[Thecat23]

There's eleven players on the park going about their jobs. They're professionals. Do you think they're going to down tools, or just do whatever they want because Lennon's not pitchside? Get a grip.

If some want to blame a defeat or a draw on a manager being in the stand, they need their heads examined. What if the manager was ill - armageddon? Naw.

Calm yourself down to a panic, read what I said again. They do the job with the help of the manager. Maybe we can just scrap the managers position as the 11 pro players on the pitch can do it no bother.

His presence is huge, so for me to get a grip maybe you should try understanding a post.

[Sioux]

Calm yourself down to a panic, read what I said again. They do the job with the help of the manager. Maybe we can just scrap the managers position as the 11 pro players on the pitch can do it no bother.

His presence is huge, so for me to get a grip maybe you should try understanding a post.

I understand you perfectly:wink:

[WeeRussell]

I understand you perfectly:wink:

Your response was hard to fathom in that case. It’s not the end of the world, but lennon and Hibs would prefer to have him as close to the team as possible during games. Therefore touchline bans aren’t helpful. That’s how I read (and agreed with) TheCat’s post.

[Thecat23]

Your response was hard to fathom in that case. It’s not the end of the world, but lennon and Hibs would prefer to have him as close to the team as possible during games. Therefore touchline bans aren’t helpful. That’s how I read (and agreed with) TheCat’s post.

That’s exactly it, nothing more nothing less. Having him there is better than him being banned.

[Hibbyradge]

That’s exactly it, nothing more nothing less. Having him there is better than him being banned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42611265

[I'm Spartacus]

100% correct you say, but on other threads you brought his medical condition into it, now also saying he should show an example to the players.

Wind up?

No. I agree with there a serious issue and have said all season that the unbelievable decisions need addressed. There’s a way to communicate though, and the club should have been in touch with the authorities long before the weekend to address the obvious incompetencies of the officials. It’s cost us 7-10 points this season alone.

The aggression was totally uncalled for though, my mental health comment elsewhere was what I’d say people would be calling into question, I’m not of that opinion.

We now need to go into this and not leave it until it’s addressed, we’re ‘all in’ on this IMO.

[Thecat23]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42611265

Good read that, I’ve not seen that before!

[WhileTheChief..]

Crap patter from folk bringing up his mental health. Who the hell do you think you are to try and offer a prognosis? Amateur psychology at its best and the sort of thing that Kickback is full of.

He was pissed off at crap decisions, like most of us were, it had nowt to do with his health.

[lord bunberry]

Manager 100% will be behind the boys that I know. My original post which was taken out of context by a few (not you) was as the face of our club I’d have liked him to have kept his cool. It shows others he can be furious yet controlled. This isn’t a go at Lennon like some seem to think, but it will also take away th honking performance of Clancy as it’s Lennon that will get the media attention.

His interview after he’s bang on, and it’s great we have a manager willing to speak up. But as he done in the interview he can be calm and still get the point across!
I think you’re just worried he might be sitting next to you in the stand :greengrin

[Thecat23]

I think you’re just worried he might be sitting next to you in the stand :greengrin

Haha I am!!! 😁

[Kato]

There’s a way to communicate though, and the club should have been in touch with the authorities long before the weekend to address the obvious incompetencies of the officials.

Is there? Do you know whether or not the club has explored these? I know they have in the past and have been treated very shabbily by the huns, errm people in charge.

[I'm Spartacus]

Is there? Do you know whether or not the club has explored these? I know they have in the past and have been treated very shabbily by the huns, errm people in charge.

I just mean in general that there’s a right and a wrong way to communicate.

[Kato]

I just mean in general that there’s a right and a wrong way to communicate.

That's a matter of perspective. As has been mentioned we've attempted the "right" way down the years, or we've just stayed silent - the SFA/SPFL/SPL just treat us as divvies and decisions like Saturday'a keep going against us i.e. 5 valid goals against Hearts not given in the last 5 years.

No harm in kicking up a stink and trying the "wrong" way. What's the worst that can happen?

[Deansy]

I reckon our manager has been quite cute - knowing it's vital that the Hun get euro-football, he knows there's gonna be a huge increase in the number of 'Human-errors' that'll, oddly enough, benefit the Hun whilst at the same time, greatly disadvantage ourselves and Aberdeen !. By his outburst on Saturday, he's put the spotlight firmly on Clancy and the refereeing in general and hopefully it will put pressure on them to either up their game or at least, try and do it honestly ................... if that's possible !

[Smartie]

Eddie Turnbull watched all his football from the back row of the directors box.His team is often quoted as the best Hibs team many have seem.Being in the dug out is vastly overrated.

I've never understood why managers watch the game from the dugout.

Surely you see more from the stand, get a different perspective?

I know that I see the game differently when I'm pitch side as opposed to up in a stand - and I think I see more further back.

Obviously there are things that will be better from pitch side.

I'd have thought having someone up in the stand communicating regularly with the dugout would be the optimum arrangement.

[lapsedhibee]

I'd have thought having someone up in the stand communicating regularly with the dugout would be the optimum arrangement.

Sorted then. Lennon can shout sorry scream instructions down to the dugout.

[Eyrie]

I've never understood why managers watch the game from the dugout.

Surely you see more from the stand, get a different perspective?

I know that I see the game differently when I'm pitch side as opposed to up in a stand - and I think I see more further back.

Obviously there are things that will be better from pitch side.

I'd have thought having someone up in the stand communicating regularly with the dugout would be the optimum arrangement.

Agreed. I much prefer the view from higher up than trackside because it's far easier to see the patterns of play.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180226/d00ff5203493ad885cfab22027bb54a3.jpg
Need a professional set up like this for Lennon. Football could learn a bit from rugby.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SRHibs]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180226/d00ff5203493ad885cfab22027bb54a3.jpg
Need a professional set up like this for Lennon. Football could learn a bit from rugby.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks like a scene from one of Cathro’s fantasies.

[Kato]

Looks like a scene from one of Cathro’s fantasies.

.....and you know this because?

[CropleyWasGod]

No. I agree with there a serious issue and have said all season that the unbelievable decisions need addressed. There’s a way to communicate though, and the club should have been in touch with the authorities long before the weekend to address the obvious incompetencies of the officials. It’s cost us 7-10 points this season alone.

The aggression was totally uncalled for though, my mental health comment elsewhere was what I’d say people would be calling into question, I’m not of that opinion.

We now need to go into this and not leave it until it’s addressed, we’re ‘all in’ on this IMO.Post 21 "he always talks about his mental health issues".

He doesn't.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[majorhibs]

I reckon our manager has been quite cute - knowing it's vital that the Hun get euro-football, he knows there's gonna be a huge increase in the number of 'Human-errors' that'll, oddly enough, benefit the Hun whilst at the same time, greatly disadvantage ourselves and Aberdeen !. By his outburst on Saturday, he's put the spotlight firmly on Clancy and the refereeing in general and hopefully it will put pressure on them to either up their game or at least, try and do it honestly ................... if that's possible !

Yep, they’ve always had the vast majority of decisions against but with so much at stake it would soon be into overdrive, hun media 1st leading to all sorts, & refs would soon be in line, happened for mega years, now it is in the spotlight. Absolute nice yin! There has been bias against Hibs v Huns throughout the 47 yrs I’ve been attending this fixture from refs, it was the “done thing” but hopefully this levels it a bit!

[shetlandhibee]

Ask Neil Lennon what he prefers I know what he’s say. Folk saying it’s fine are also saying how good it is to have someone so passionate. So surely that will be a huge miss in the dugout? He’s a dugout manager not a stand manager. Everyone is different some like to sit in the stand he doesn’t! Having Lennon in the dugout gives us that little bit extra when we are up against it imo.

We may well win all the games when he sits in the stands and maybe Lennon will become a stand manager, until then I think he’ll be a miss AH.
IMO Neil Lennons passion for standing up for his team and what he thinks is unjust, is what makes him the winner he is hes not changing in a hurry, i dont think ime being to biased in saying weve had more than our share of dodgy refereeing decisions in the last few years i for one am delighted Lennys highlighting this (as previous posts have said this might not be a bad thing as they will be more scrutinised in the run in) it is unfortunate hes going to be in the stand,, i think 2 game ban...

[happiehibbie]

Eddie Turnbull watched all his football from the back row of the directors box.His team is often quoted as the best Hibs team many have seem.Being in the dug out is vastly overrated.

you maybe right however the ban means he is not allowed in the players changing room must also be out of the holding areas for an 1hr before kick off. watching the game from the stand is not the issue giving direction and input is.

I think Lennon is very hot headed but will never overturn a decision I think some people could be getting mixed up between passion and over reaction to whats happening

[JimBHibees]

That's a matter of perspective. As has been mentioned we've attempted the "right" way down the years, or we've just stayed silent - the SFA/SPFL/SPL just treat us as divvies and decisions like Saturday'a keep going against us i.e. 5 valid goals against Hearts not given in the last 5 years.

No harm in kicking up a stink and trying the "wrong" way. What's the worst that can happen?

5 goals can only think of Griffith, oli, Forster? What others?

[heretoday]

Ask Neil Lennon what he prefers I know what he’s say. Folk saying it’s fine are also saying how good it is to have someone so passionate. So surely that will be a huge miss in the dugout? He’s a dugout manager not a stand manager. Everyone is different some like to sit in the stand he doesn’t! Having Lennon in the dugout gives us that little bit extra when we are up against it imo.

We may well win all the games when he sits in the stands and maybe Lennon will become a stand manager, until then I think he’ll be a miss AH.

Correct. He's a dugout guy.

[Mr White]

5 goals can only think of Griffith, oli, Forster? What others?

McGregor's in the replay a year ago should have stood to make it 4 and Cummings looked to be onside at tynecastle in the cup in 2016 too.

[Not In The Know]

When does Lennon make his trip through to the GFA?

[J-C]

you maybe right however the ban means he is not allowed in the players changing room must also be out of the holding areas for an 1hr before kick off. watching the game from the stand is not the issue giving direction and input is.

I think Lennon is very hot headed but will never overturn a decision I think some people could be getting mixed up between passion and over reaction to whats happening


We understand that Stevie but he'll have things in place to combat this, he'll have a team meeting before his ban kicks in, these are pros so tactics shouldn't be a problem. He also has a very able assistant who'll get them up and ready prior to the match.

[Kato]

5 goals can only think of Griffith, oli, Forster? What others?

Cummings in the 2-2 game when it was at nil nil, McGregor in the 3-1 game to make it 4.

[Brizo]

The Lennon debate between ‘the not Hibs class’ brigade and the ‘about time we had a passionate manager who called out the entire stinking cesspit for what it is’ troops will go on, with me on the latter side.

Leave the poker-assed petit bourgeois Edinburgh snobbery to the Yams - they are far better at that ludicrous affection. All it does for us is get us proverbial sand kicked in our face. I love the chippy, provocative, passionate, don’t-****-with-us siege mentality Hibs of NL. More power to this ginger godlike force, I say!

100% agree DBS. Tugging the forelock gets you nowhere unless you have aspirations of getting a gig with the SFA at some time in the future.
Calling out the incompetent officialdom is something more managers should b doing. Yes he's a radge but he's our radge and I'd rather he was on our touchline than some of the passionless robots we've had before.

[Hibbyradge]

It seems that people feel that rules about footballers', and managers', behaviour don't apply if they're passionate about their team and they disagree with a referee's decision(s).

Who agreed to those rules in the first place?

And why?

I'm not sure that Lennon's behaviour won't benefit Hibs in the longer term, but there really should be a formal system in place whereby referees are accountable for their decisions.

That doesn't necessarily mean that they have to "stand trial" in public, but the current procedure is failing.

[JimBHibees]

Cummings in the 2-2 game when it was at nil nil, McGregor in the 3-1 game to make it 4.

Ok thanks. Thought Cummings was just offside didnt think McGregor was.

[BlackSheep]

from the BBC website:-


Hibernian head coach Neil Lennon has been issued with a notice of complaint by the Scottish FA's compliance officer following the 2-2 draw with Kilmarnock.]Lennon, 46, faces two charges - "misconduct at a match" and criticism of decisions by match officials.
The Northern Irishman was sent to the stand after Killie were awarded a penalty during Saturday's match at Rugby Park.
A principal hearing date has been set for Thursday 15 March.

So he will be available for the derby at least.

[J-C]

How many absolute shocking referee performances have we seen at ER this season and also in other games in the SPL? We never see or here about referees being disciplined or demoted for poor performances, they just seem to carry on getting games to referee, I think this is the main crux as to why Lennon lost it, he's just had enough of either regular poor or biased refereeing, whichever way you look at it.

[happiehibbie]

We understand that Stevie but he'll have things in place to combat this, he'll have a team meeting before his ban kicks in, these are pros so tactics shouldn't be a problem. He also has a very able assistant who'll get them up and ready prior to the match.

I understand all that also John the thread was about being in he stand and how ET was a great manager from there he would be in the dressing room right up until the teams went out and back in at half time. It does effect the players when the gaffer is not giving direction

IMO Lennon is not showing passion ! anger yes and the same disobedience he had at Celtic that we did not like I think the look from Petrie says it all.

[Moulin Yarns]

from the BBC website:-

[COLOR=#252525][FONT=ReithSans][SIZE=2][FONT=arial]

So he will be available for the derby at least.



Can't wait for Murty to be called up as well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43204326?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_sportsound&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=scotland

[Thecat23]

Can't wait for Murty to be called up as well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43204326?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_sportsound&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=scotland

Unless I’m missing something why would he be called up? Full time refs is surely the way forward but then again doesn’t cut out the ones who just cheat.

[Stuart93]

Rule72: basically don't criticise any referee ever regardless of how ***** he his or how much of a cheating ******* he is

[Thecat23]

Rule72: basically don't criticise any referee ever regardless of how ***** he his or how much of a cheating ******* he is

😂 I’m sure that actually is a rule the SFA have put in!!

[Sauzee16]

How many absolute shocking referee performances have we seen at ER this season and also in other games in the SPL? We never see or here about referees being disciplined or demoted for poor performances, they just seem to carry on getting games to referee, I think this is the main crux as to why Lennon lost it, he's just had enough of either regular poor or biased refereeing, whichever way you look at it.

Wasn't it Lennon who caused the referee strike whilst at Celtic?

[lapsedhibee]

Wasn't it Lennon who caused the referee strike whilst at Celtic?

Yup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_football_referee_strike

[Sprouleflyer]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180226/d00ff5203493ad885cfab22027bb54a3.jpg
Need a professional set up like this for Lennon. Football could learn a bit from rugby.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great set up, but they didn't win.

[Smartie]

I have no idea what Kevin Clancy would do all week as a full-time referee that would make him get a decision like Saturday's correct.

If we've got money to throw around, get technology (that works) in for the big decisions like goals, penalties and red cards.

If we don't - suck it up, moan about it a bit and get players, managers (and fans?) who get on the referee's case and try to influence them into making decisions in your favour.

Also, try to have the ball in your opposition's box more than your own.

[hhibs]

There's talk on hear about NL's inevitable ban and how this will affect Hibs. Am I the only one who thinks a manager having to watch from the stand has little impact on performance?



Who knows we might find that NL is better in the stand as he can overview the whole game and it may mean more timeous substitutions,an area I believe we are weak.
Communications in this day and age should not be an issue either IMO.

[Deansy]

Cummings in the 2-2 game when it was at nil nil, McGregor in the 3-1 game to make it 4.


McGregor's 'goal' being chalked-off is one that really boils ma urine !. I've watched it umpteen times and I think the only reason for it not being allowed is that the officials felt sorry for the Jambos as 4-1 really is a humping !. McGregor wasn't off-side - if you look at it, Berry plays him on, he's in line with him on the edge of the box. He didn't foul the defender - if anything he actually pulls away ffrom him as he goes up for the ball. The Jambos themselves don't make much of a protest !. Yet another Scottish Refereeing farce !

[Ozyhibby]

I would only support full time refs if it allows refs from other countries to come here and earns living. That’s how you improve standards. Refs with no connections to Rangers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thecat23]

I would only support full time refs if it allows refs from other countries to come here and earns living. That’s how you improve standards. Refs with no connections to Rangers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s actually a very good idea, I’d be much happier having refs from elsewhere come in.

[Ringothedog]

I have no idea what Kevin Clancy would do all week as a full-time referee that would make him get a decision like Saturday's correct.

If we've got money to throw around, get technology (that works) in for the big decisions like goals, penalties and red cards.

If we don't - suck it up, moan about it a bit and get players, managers (and fans?) who get on the referee's case and try to influence them into making decisions in your favour.

Also, try to have the ball in your opposition's box more than your own.

He would hopefully give up refereeing as he is a solicitor. A certain company will never get my business whilst he is making all those “honest “ errors

[Sauzee16]

Yup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_football_referee_strike

Is it all sticking up for the club he is managing or a personal gripe with them or just looses the head? I'm completely on the fence regarding this whole situation. He really does have to remember he's not on the field anymore though and the face of the football club.


As for the hearing delighted Rod is trolling the Jambos I hopePotter is raging.

[Future17]

He would hopefully give up refereeing as he is a solicitor. A certain company will never get my business whilst he is making all those “honest “ errors

He'd likely be better paid as a full time ref than in his current legal role.

[SHODAN]

McGregor's 'goal' being chalked-off is one that really boils ma urine !. I've watched it umpteen times and I think the only reason for it not being allowed is that the officials felt sorry for the Jambos as 4-1 really is a humping !. McGregor wasn't off-side - if you look at it, Berry plays him on, he's in line with him on the edge of the box. He didn't foul the defender - if anything he actually pulls away ffrom him as he goes up for the ball. The Jambos themselves don't make much of a protest !. Yet another Scottish Refereeing farce !

Agreed. No reason why that was disallowed, and no-one made anything of it because we had won anyway.

If the ref had given it we may well have got our own 5-1.

[lapsedhibee]

Is it all sticking up for the club he is managing or a personal gripe with them or just looses the head? I'm completely on the fence regarding this whole situation. He really does have to remember he's not on the field anymore though and the face of the football club.

The last time he made a big noise about corrupt officiating it resulted in refs retiring/resigning. Why wouldn't he make a big noise again if he perceives a pattern of (ridiculously) bad decisions against his current club? It's a completely rational response.

[J-C]

Great set up, but they didn't win.


Scotland had the same set up and did win.

[Sauzee16]

The last time he made a big noise about corrupt officiating it resulted in refs retiring/resigning. Why wouldn't he make a big noise again if he perceives a pattern of (ridiculously) bad decisions against his current club? It's a completely rational response.

Because the referee made a mistake and tried to back his assistant needed up getting sacked. It would be interesting to see whatthe view of the support was when this happened with Celtic. I thought it was shocking the way their club handled it particularly as they get the majority of decisions regardless. Neil seems to have an historic gripe with them going back to his playing days screaming in the face of refs. Quite simply he will get done with it more often than not now as he's not above the law being manager of Hibernian in comparison to when at Celtic. I fail to see the good this will donis in the future? The refs scared to give decisions against us under Lennon maybe? Neil Lennon is a fantastic coach and great to have on side there is a line though and this will cost a brilliant motivator and backernof the players at the side of the pitch in the coming weeks.

[The Green Goblin]

Is it all sticking up for the club he is managing or a personal gripe with them or just looses the head? I'm completely on the fence regarding this whole situation. He really does have to remember he's not on the field anymore though and the face of the football club.


As for the hearing delighted Rod is trolling the Jambos I hopePotter is raging.

What has Rod done?

[Sauzee16]

What has Rod done?

The hearing is the week after the Derby superbly played :)

[Eaststandee]

Surely in PRINCIPLE referees not being on full time contracts would make them more susceptible to bribes/"gifts." You would imagine a competent organisation would try to avoid this..

I am not saying this happens btw, before I am told to get my foil hat on. :tee hee:

[The Green Goblin]

The hearing is the week after the Derby superbly played :)

:aok:

[Gerard]

:aok:

I fully support our HC in his view on the referees in the SPL

[green day]

Alan Preston vociferous in his support for NL on sportsound.

Credit where its due.

[Ozyhibby]

Alan Preston vociferous in his support for NL on sportsound.

Credit where its due.

Shows why Lennon was spot on reacting the way he did on sat. All the panel agreed it was a terrible decision and also questioning whether he should heave been sent off at all.
Clancy will not be enjoying the massive attention his terrible decision is now receiving and will be very cautious of not getting it wrong with us in future.
That’s why Lennon was correct.


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[hibbyfraelibby]

Having seen the charges laid against Neil Lennon by the unaccountable public body aka the SFA I would imagine a defence based on Article 10.1 of the European Convention on Human Rights would be appropriate.

"Article 10 – Freedom of expression1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises."

I don't see any exemption given for monopolistic Football Authorities. As Bosman proved European Law trumps SFA rules every time.

[WhileTheChief..]

The human rights act on Hibs.net.

Is no place safe?

[Smartie]

It would be absolutely hilarious if Neil Lennon pitched up and starting banging on about his human rights.

[Hibbyradge]

Having seen the charges laid against Neil Lennon by the unaccountable public body aka the SFA I would imagine a defence based on Article 10.1 of the European Convention on Human Rights would be appropriate.

"Article 10 – Freedom of expression1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises."

I don't see any exemption given for monopolistic Football Authorities. As Bosman proved European Law trumps SFA rules every time.

The HRA applies to public authorities etc, not football associations.

[hibbyfraelibby]

The HRA applies to public authorities etc, not football associations.

Incorrect. As incorporated into UK law under Section 12 of the Human Rights Act 1998 there is already case law and precedent for the application between non State authorities. This was was particularly apparent when the super injunction cases appeals were held and the injunctions restricting the expression of opinions was lifted.

[Hibbyradge]

Incorrect. As incorporated into UK law under Section 12 of the Human Rights Act 1998 there is already case law and precedent for the application between non State authorities. This was was particularly apparent when the super injunction cases appeals were held and the injunctions restricting the expression of opinions was lifted.

Yes.

There are aspects of the HRA which have been successfully argued. But they do not apply automatically and would require considerable legal consideration in the courts.

I doubt many court rooms will define shouting and swearing at a referee as a right of free speech.

The HRA won't worry the Scottish football authorities.

[majorhibs]

Yes.

There are aspects of the HRA which have been successfully argued. But they do not apply automatically and would require considerable legal consideration in the courts.

I doubt many court rooms will define shouting and swearing at a referee as a right of free speech.

The HRA won't worry the Scottish football authorities.

I’m just chuffed we’ve managed tae move on from “screaming “

[Hibbyradge]

I’m just chuffed we’ve managed tae move on from “screaming “

I don't remember any screaming.

[majorhibs]

I don't remember any screaming.

Me neither. But at the start of this thread all the Armageddon’ers who reckoned the mgr was in for a huge huge ban reckoned they did.

[yonder1875]

Will Lenny be in the dugout next Friday?

[Hibbyradge]

Will Lenny be in the dugout next Friday?

Yes.

[Deansy]

Surely in PRINCIPLE referees not being on full time contracts would make them more susceptible to bribes/"gifts." You would imagine a competent organisation would try to avoid this..

I am not saying this happens btw, before I am told to get my foil hat on. :tee hee:


Anyone who genuinely believes our referees are immune to corruption are just deluding themselves !

[Phil MaGlass]

Anyone who genuinely believes our referees are immune to corruption are just deluding themselves !

Absolutely, especially when you take into account our supposedly non biased (hahahaha) BBC Scotland, and half if not most the rags and our corrupt polis Glasgow oops I meant Scotland

[Stuart93]

Haha some referees are 100% corrupt & cheaters as oppose to just being incompetent

[Ozyhibby]

Haha some referees are 100% corrupt & cheaters as oppose to just being incompetent

That’s why we need to bring in refs from all over the world like we do in every other industry. We need to drive up standards.


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[neil7908]

That’s why we need to bring in refs from all over the world like we do in every other industry. We need to drive up standards.


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I'm not convinced by that tbh. Speak to literally any football fan from other countries and they will tell you their referees are awful. I genuinely think ours must be among the worst but the bottom line is mistakes will still be made when we have human beings trying to make decisions in a split second with the ball moving at speed and 22 players on the park.

Technology is the only way forward in football. I appreciate funding is an issue and it still feels very clunky but I don't see any other solution.

[Hibbyradge]

Haha some referees are 100% corrupt & cheaters as oppose to just being incompetent

They're only 100% corrupt when they give poor decisions against us.

When the poor decision is in our favour, they're incompetent.

[ancient hibee]

Say a ref makes two awful mistakes in a game then how does that compare with the number of mistakes made by the average player.Alarmingly I suspect that the ref is usually the most competent person on the pitch.

[Phil MaGlass]

Even if refs are held to account and have their say after the match, all they have to say they thought their call was right at the time, it still doesnae change the fact they made mistakes or cheated.

[Kato]

Say a ref makes two awful mistakes in a game then how does that compare with the number of mistakes made by the average player.Alarmingly I suspect that the ref is usually the most competent person on the pitch.

How would you compare the degree of difficulty between the two tasks?

Refs will always make errors , that's understandable. Its when the "errors" begin to follow a pattern that questions should be asked of them.

[Hibbyradge]

How would you compare the degree of difficulty between the two tasks?



I bet you can play football.

I bet you struggle to get decisions right when you watch games, either live or on TV, and you aren't running at pace or obstructed by players.

I've screamed at referees (oops, there's the S word again) for giving bad decisions against Hibs, loads of times, only to find out via the highlights that the ref was right.

I refereed for Crystal Palace eagles when I lived in London and was put through the FA course.

I made mistakes. I remember refereeing a friendly and awarding what I thought was a clear corner. One of the defending players was screaming in my face that it was a by kick and was joined by some of his team mates. It was so heated that we nearly ended up boxing!

After the game, the attacking player admitted that it was a by kick.

[ancient hibee]

How would you compare the degree of difficulty between the two tasks?

Refs will always make errors , that's understandable. Its when the "errors" begin to follow a pattern that questions should be asked of them.
Much more difficult to be a ref who has to be in the right part of the pitch all the time.Particularly difficult when there a lot of players who aren’t too sure where the ball is going when they kick it.:greengrin

[Golden Bear]

From the football gossip column on the Beeb website.

"Hibernian head coach Neil Lennon says his comments after being sent off following the 2-2 draw with Kilmarnock were "sensationalised" and that certain sections of the media treat him like Kim Jong II." (Scottish Sun)


:greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

From the football gossip column on the Beeb website.

"Hibernian head coach Neil Lennon says his comments after being sent off following the 2-2 draw with Kilmarnock were "sensationalised" and that certain sections of the media treat him like Kim Jong II." (Scottish Sun)


:greengrin


20271 :greengrin

[Jim44]

That’s why we need to bring in refs from all over the world like we do in every other industry. We need to drive up standards.


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Refs from other countries won’t necessarily solve the problem. They would still be open to ‘stretched-palm’ corruption.

[murray26]

The best ref I ever saw was the Icelandic boy who took charge v st Johnstone ( I think) when our refs were on strike for more cash ( cheek)

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Surely in PRINCIPLE referees not being on full time contracts would make them more susceptible to bribes/"gifts." You would imagine a competent organisation would try to avoid this..

I am not saying this happens btw, before I am told to get my foil hat on. :tee hee:

Are most of them not lawyers or accountants so less succeptible ... oh wait... :)

[staunchhibby]

Thought the Maltese ref was superb at easter road

[majorhibs]

Refs from other countries won’t necessarily solve the problem. They would still be open to ‘stretched-palm’ corruption.

I’d actually feel a bit better if said stretched palm wisnae from the likes of Thompson & the rest of the obvious biased brigade. Maybe just me.

[Eyrie]

Refs from other countries won’t necessarily solve the problem. They would still be open to ‘stretched-palm’ corruption.

They would however be less likely to show bias towards particular clubs.

In an ideal world professional referees would spend half their time on exchange with other countries which should help drive up standards. At the moment our top referees are guaranteed a game because there is no alternative.

[Hibbyradge]

Bring in foreigners because Scottish people are untrustworthy.

:aok:

[Kato]

Bring in foreigners because some Scottish people are untrustworthy.

:aok:

True now.

[Hibbyradge]

True now.

Are some foreigners not untrustworthy, too?

[Kato]

Are some foreigners not untrustworthy, too?

Of course. Culturally those would be untrustworthy for different reasons. Some Scottish refs are all too willing to bow to an Ibrox-centric culture.

Who was the Ref who claimed to be proud he'd never officiated in a Rangers defeat?

[Hibbyradge]

Of course. Culturally those would be untrustworthy for different reasons. Some Scottish refs are all too willing to bow to an Ibrox-centric culture.

Who was the Ref who claimed to be proud he'd never officiated in a Rangers defeat?

It would be a huge embarrassment, and insult, to the entire country if Scottish football said that, because they couldn't find enough honest people to referee our football matches, applications were invited from those born outside our borders.

Fortunately, the idea is just badly thought through nonsense which would never even be contemplated never mind implemented.

[snooky]

Of course. Culturally those would be untrustworthy for different reasons. Some Scottish refs are all too willing to bow to an Ibrox-centric culture.

Who was the Ref who claimed to be proud he'd never officiated in a Rangers defeat?

At a sportsman's dinner I heard Brian McGinley suggest that, if necessary, he always played over the 90mins till Rangers scored.
A feeble attempt at humour? Maybe, however, many's a true word .....

[Kato]

It would be a huge embarrassment, and insult, to the entire country if Scottish football said that, because they couldn't find enough honest people to referee our football matches, applications were invited from those born outside our borders.

Fortunately, the idea is just badly thought through nonsense which would never even be contemplated never mind implemented.

It will never happen and it's not something I'm advocating.

The bias exists though in all walks, maybe not as vocal as it once was but it's still there.

[Ozyhibby]

It has nothing to do with whether Scottish people are more untrustworthy or less than foreigners. It’s about bringing in competition competition for the jobs.
Perform poorly and you are out rather than just moving on and getting another match the next week.


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[Hibbyradge]

It has nothing to do with whether Scottish people are more untrustworthy or less than foreigners. It’s about bringing in competition competition for the jobs.
Perform poorly and you are out rather than just moving on and getting another match the next week.


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The chat on this thread is about dishonest refs with outstretched palms.

It's nonsense though, Ozzy.

Referees are criticised by fans and pundits in every country in the world. It's incredibly difficult to get everything right.

Who decides if the ref's performance was worthy of him getting another game or getting kicked out? What standards of performance should be set?

What happens when the foreign referee fails? How far afield do we go when we run out, country by country?

How much do we shell out in air fares and accommodation? etc etc etc.

When fans come up with simple solutions, there are usually reasons they've not already been implemented.

[malcolm]

I don’t believe there is corruption among scottish refs - if this is measured by greasing palms but I’ve seen too much not to believe that at the least there are refs whose unconscious bias leads them to favour decisions one way and not the other. And when I am the most cynical I might choose to believe some bias is not simply unconscious.

Course I am happy to admit that I’m very consciously biased myself ... but not so much that I can’t be reasonably dubious that all decisions are as they should be.:wink:

[eastcoasthibby]

The big forgotten or lost message in all of this is that all Lennon and us fans want is to be treated fairly by match officials, honest decisions made and that they work haed at being more competent in doing there jobs.
Do.this and all this doesnt happen, like us all if we go out and do a fair days work, learn from our mistakes and do better wherever we can, if we dont do that our bosses ask us why and if it carries we dont have jobs or at least not the same job.

[wookie70]

The big forgotten or lost message in all of this is that all Lennon and us fans want is to be treated fairly by match officials, honest decisions made and that they work haed at being more competent in doing there jobs.
Do.this and all this doesnt happen, like us all if we go out and do a fair days work, learn from our mistakes and do better wherever we can, if we dont do that our bosses ask us why and if it carries we dont have jobs or at least not the same job.

Very few jobs are done in front of tens of thousands, watched over afterwards by even more who can scrutinise from different angles and at a slower speed and where decisions can cost Millions. I wonder how many of us get it right every time under severe pressure and making instant decision, anyone crashed their car or hit their finger with a hammer etc. Refereeing is probably better than it has ever been it's just that most decisions can now be proven to be right or wrong because of the TV coverage and more players are at it than ever before. It doesn't help that lots of fans aren't even clear on some of the laws of the game.

Hibs have had way more than their fair share of bad decisions and if we really want to do something about it then we should start compiling evidence. Consistency is the key and I doubt it would take long to start showing that Marv gets booked for practically nothing compared to some players, Hibs have been denied large numbers of absolutely clear cut goals and lots of our sendings off have been rescinded while other teams receive their punishment after the players walk off the park.

Get the evidence together and make sure referees know we compile that evidence professionally to make sure decisions are as consistent as possible. That will get into a referees mind. I think Lennon went about it the wrong way against Killie but his post match interview contained the correct way forward. Compare similar situations with different decisions ideally from the same referee but also from other referees.

[Hibbyradge]

Very few jobs are done in front of tens of thousands, watched over afterwards by even more who can scrutinise from different angles and at a slower speed and where decisions can cost Millions. I wonder how many of us get it right every time under severe pressure and making instant decision, anyone crashed their car or hit their finger with a hammer etc. Refereeing is probably better than it has ever been it's just that most decisions can now be proven to be right or wrong because of the TV coverage and more players are at it than ever before. It doesn't help that lots of fans aren't even clear on some of the laws of the game.

Hibs have had way more than their fair share of bad decisions and if we really want to do something about it then we should start compiling evidence. Consistency is the key and I doubt it would take long to start showing that Marv gets booked for practically nothing compared to some players, Hibs have been denied large numbers of absolutely clear cut goals and lots of our sendings off have been rescinded while other teams receive their punishment after the players walk off the park.

Get the evidence together and make sure referees know we compile that evidence professionally to make sure decisions are as consistent as possible. That will get into a referees mind. I think Lennon went about it the wrong way against Killie but his post match interview contained the correct way forward. Compare similar situations with different decisions ideally from the same referee but also from other referees.

"Like".

[Stevie Reid]

Jurgen Klopp going stone cold radge at the referee and fourth official there for not getting a penalty in the last minute of injury time when they're 2-0 up.

[southsider]

Celtic got an unbelievable penalty today. Bet your bottom dollar guns get one tomorrow.

[JimBHibees]

The big forgotten or lost message in all of this is that all Lennon and us fans want is to be treated fairly by match officials, honest decisions made and that they work haed at being more competent in doing there jobs.
Do.this and all this doesnt happen, like us all if we go out and do a fair days work, learn from our mistakes and do better wherever we can, if we dont do that our bosses ask us why and if it carries we dont have jobs or at least not the same job.

Neil made a great point about the way teams are treated by the refs. He mentioned Rodgers getting a call by the ref supervisor the day after Ross county got a soft penalty and wondered why he didn't get the same call after the goal not given against Hearts. One rule for one.

[pacorosssco]

Refs are also tight knit group who stick together against supports they dislike or managers.

[majorhibs]

It would be a huge embarrassment, and insult, to the entire country if Scottish football said that, because they couldn't find enough honest people to referee our football matches, applications were invited from those born outside our borders.

Fortunately, the idea is just badly thought through nonsense which would never even be contemplated never mind implemented.

You never answered the question re culture, conscious or subconscious, but went on the offensive. Consciously or subconsciously coming from a 75% to 25% country. I would like foreign refs personally. I grew up seeing too much to put it all down to subconscious.

[Hibeesmad]

I not long ago had a drink with a very drunk ref who referees in Scottish league 2 regularly. He claimed corruption is at its highest just now..

Make of that what you want

[JimBHibees]

I not long ago had a drink with a very drunk ref who referees in Scottish league 2 regularly. He claimed corruption is at its highest just now..

Make of that what you want

What did he mean by corruption?

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.trainingground.guru/articles/computers,-not-managers,-will-decide-tactics-clemens

If Lennon has to work from the stand then we could do worse than use a system like this. [emoji3]


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[Mikey09]

Thought the Maltese ref was superb at easter road


Agree 100%. He was brilliant. Had a bit of banter with the players and didn't notice him too much. Sign of a good official. Most of our mob really do think it's all about them. Andrew Dallas has to be up there with the worst when it comes to attention seeking.

[Peevemor]

I remember a cartoon strip (maybe "this goalie's got guts") where a Mexican team took to the pitch wearing sombreros, each concealing a radio receiver.

Not so far fetched now, what with miniaturisation and that ... :hmmm: