Fire in London tower block

[hibsbollah]

Jezza's attack dog. :greengrin

Is that me or McDonnel?:greengrin

[Betty Boop]

Is that me or McDonnel?:greengrin

If the cap fits :rolleyes:

[CapitalGreen]

Meanwhile, back to reality, this is a thread about how probably upwards of 100 people got burned to death in their homes, and you are accusing other people of hijacking the disaster for political ends. :rolleyes:

The Tories/Hibs.Net liaison officer just doing his service.

[ronaldo7]

Theresa May admits that the cladding used on Grenfell and other tower blocks across the country is combustible.




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-tower-fire-latest-theresa-may-combustible-cladding-testing-apartment-buildings-high-rises-a7802191.html

She also said that the response from government, both local and national was not good enough. It's not political though. 😌

[Slavers]

A concern is when making Grenfell a political issue is that it leaves the door open for people to make terrorist attacks fair game for political point scoring. Not saying it does not happen now but i dont see how you can criticize one but not the other.

[PeeJay]

Theresa May admits that the cladding used on Grenfell and other tower blocks across the country is combustible.




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-tower-fire-latest-theresa-may-combustible-cladding-testing-apartment-buildings-high-rises-a7802191.html

May states nothing we didn't already know surely? It was reported on day 1 after the fire that UK specifications permit combustible insulation on tower blocks. This has been known about for quite some time now. The local authorities, fire services, building contractors and the manufacturers must have known this too?

Germany is the only country in Europe where flammable insulation/cladding is not permitted on buildings taller than 22m! The reason why is obvious ... according to the Federal German Fire Chief, the rest of Europe thought the Germans were being too stringent with their specifications: they were wrong!

[Colr]

May states nothing we didn't already know surely? It was reported on day 1 after the fire that UK specifications permit combustible insulation on tower blocks. This has been known about for quite some time now. The local authorities, fire services, building contractors and the manufacturers must have known this too?

Germany is the only country in Europe where flammable insulation/cladding is not permitted on buildings taller than 22m! The reason why is obvious ... according to the Federal German Fire Chief, the rest of Europe thought the Germans were being too stringent with their specifications: they were wrong!

Only a few identified so far. In Camden and in Haringey. Both recent jobs.

Interestingly the Chief Exec of Haringey has just been appointed a Chief Exec of the governments affordable housing regulator (HCA) so will be ina position to something about this.

[pacoluna]

A concern is when making Grenfell a political issue is that it leaves the door open for people to make terrorist attacks fair game for political point scoring. Not saying it does not happen now but i dont see how you can criticize one but not the other.

This is a very political tragedy. A symbol of Austerity.

I'm not going to get in to a debate about this because its not needed, its there rite in front of everybody's eyes.

[Jim44]

I heard on the news earlier today that the cladding was giving off hydrogen cyanide gas which may/will have contributed to many of the deaths. Sorry if this has already been mentioned

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Its really simple. You got yourself all foamed up about the prospect of violent disorder that was to be blamed on the Shadow Chancellor because he 'apparently' was encouraging violent disorder. Except there is no evidence that he said anything like that. But the violence didn't happen anyway. So that's that sorted.

Meanwhile, back to reality, this is a thread about how probably upwards of 100 people got burned to death in their homes, and you are accusing other people of hijacking the disaster for political ends. :rolleyes:

It is simple, i agree.

I criticised the (shameful) attempt by the left wing organisations that were using the fire to support their goal to bring down the (elected) govt via their day of rage. McDonnell supported this action. That is what i meant by it being hijacked for a (tenuously linked at best) political objective. Now if the demonstration had been about fire regs, that would have been a different story.

I understood you to be saying they werent hijacking it, hence this tooing and froing.

I called mcdonnell the attack dog, which is a quite a well understood and commonly used term in politics, so im not sure why that was funny or controversial.

I never claimed he was supporting violence, and i happily accepted that i was premature with that, for which i apologised. I claimed he was supporting them using this tragedy as a flimsy excuse to try and bring down the govt, which in my view, is a hijacking of a tragedy for a nakedly party political gain.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

A concern is when making Grenfell a political issue is that it leaves the door open for people to make terrorist attacks fair game for political point scoring. Not saying it does not happen now but i dont see how you can criticize one but not the other.

Can you imagine the reaction if a right wing pressure group had organised a 'day of rage' in response to the manchester attack, there would (rightly) be uproar.

[hibsbollah]

It is simple, i agree.

I criticised the (shameful) attempt by the left wing organisations that were using the fire to support their goal to bring down the (elected) govt via their day of rage. McDonnell supported this action. That is what i meant by it being hijacked for a (tenuously linked at best) political objective. Now if the demonstration had been about fire regs, that would have been a different story.

I understood you to be saying they werent hijacking it, hence this tooing and froing.

I called mcdonnell the attack dog, which is a quite a well understood and commonly used term in politics, so im not sure why that was funny or controversial.

I never claimed he was supporting violence, and i happily accepted that i was premature with that, for which i apologised. I claimed he was supporting them using this tragedy as a flimsy excuse to try and bring down the govt, which in my view, is a hijacking of a tragedy for a nakedly party political gain.

FFS man, are you in any way interested in the actual story here?

[lord bunberry]

Can you imagine the reaction if a right wing pressure group had organised a 'day of rage' in response to the manchester attack, there would (rightly) be uproar.

There were at least one right wing march after the Manchester and London attacks.

[High-On-Hibs]

Media still reporting 79 fatalities. Wouldn't be surprised if the true figure is closer to 3 times higher sadly.

[hibsbollah]

Media still reporting 79 fatalities. Wouldn't be surprised if the true figure is closer to 3 times higher sadly.

Saw this on a residents placard on the I website:

500 residents-108 in hospital or hostel accom-68 dead... Where are the other 324??..

Even assuming some tenants were away and not let anyone know where they were for a whole week, it sounds like almost 400 could have died in that fire. Beyond comprehension.

[High-On-Hibs]

Saw this on a residents placard on the I website:

500 residents-108 in hospital or hostel accom-68 dead... Where are the other 324??..

Even assuming some tenants were away and not let anyone know where they were for a whole week, it sounds like almost 400 could have died in that fire. Beyond comprehension.

Indeed. They also can't say that people were out working, because there would have been a high unemployment rate from the people living there and the one's that were in employment, only a very small percentage would have been working night shift.

Stinks of a cover up.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Indeed. They also can't say that people were out working, because there would have been a high unemployment rate from the people living there and the one's that were in employment, only a very small percentage would have been working night shift.

Stinks of a cover up.

Why would anybody cover up the number of fatalities? At this stage it's an ongoing investigation. Let's not go with conspiracy theories before we know everything. The situation on fatalities will be become clearer as the building is forensically searched, and, sadly, the death toll may well rise. In the meantime the government needs to urgently find out what went to badly wrong and ensure people in other blocks across the country are safe.

[ronaldo7]

It is simple, i agree.

I criticised the (shameful) attempt by the left wing organisations that were using the fire to support their goal to bring down the (elected) govt via their day of rage. McDonnell supported this action. That is what i meant by it being hijacked for a (tenuously linked at best) political objective. Now if the demonstration had been about fire regs, that would have been a different story.

I understood you to be saying they werent hijacking it, hence this tooing and froing.

I called mcdonnell the attack dog, which is a quite a well understood and commonly used term in politics, so im not sure why that was funny or controversial.

I never claimed he was supporting violence, and i happily accepted that i was premature with that, for which i apologised. I claimed he was supporting them using this tragedy as a flimsy excuse to try and bring down the govt, which in my view, is a hijacking of a tragedy for a nakedly party political gain.

Maybe they've seen the recent Channel 4 investigation into the Tories cheating their way to that minority government. Elected by cheating it seems.:wink:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

FFS man, are you in any way interested in the actual story here?

Yes - which is why i think it shouldnt be hijacked.

And by the way, it was you who responded to the news item posted calling it rubbish.

Im gonna end this here, lets just agree that the important thing is finding out the actual truth, and it being properly acted upon.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Why would anybody cover up the number of fatalities? At this stage it's an ongoing investigation. Let's not go with conspiracy theories before we know everything. The situation on fatalities will be become clearer as the building is forensically searched, and, sadly, the death toll may well rise. In the meantime the government needs to urgently find out what went to badly wrong and ensure people in other blocks across the country are safe.

Couldnt agree more.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Maybe they've seen the recent Channel 4 investigation into the Tories cheating their way to that minority government. Elected by cheating it seems.:wink:

Jeezo, if i had jumped into a convo like this in order to make some petty partisan point, i would be pilloried by most on here.

Have a word with yourself, theres a whole other thread for tory bashing.

You have the cheek to call me a desperado.

And your cheeky little wink smiley seems wholly inappropriate in such a discussion too.

[ronaldo7]

Jeezo, if i had jumped into a convo like this in order to make some petty partisan point, i would be pilloried by most on here.

Have a word with yourself, theres a whole other thread for tory bashing.

You have the cheek to call me a desperado.

And your cheeky little wink smiley seems wholly inappropriate in such a discussion too.

Just stating the facts. It seems you don't like that, when it's against the Tories.

I don't think I've ever called you a desperado though.

Back on topic, when are the rest of the Tories going to resign over this?

It was you who brought the elected Gov into the conversation, I just picked up on it, and gave you Channel 4's thoughts on the election being bought by the Tories.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Just stating the facts. It seems you don't like that, when it's against the Tories.

I don't think I've ever called you a desperado though.

Back on topic, when are the rest of the Tories going to resign over this?

It was you who brought the elected Gov into the conversation, I just picked up on it, and gave you Channel 4's thoughts on the election being bought by the Tories.

Bull. And you know it. I never took you as being that low.

[ronaldo7]

Bull. And you know it. I never took you as being that low.

You don't like the facts. I've got that now.:aok:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

You don't like the facts. I've got that now.:aok:

So the police and / or the electoral commission have made a judgement have they?

Or are you just wading in, ironicallu to a discussion about politicising the deaths of 70 plus people, armed with a report from C4 news and passing it off as a fact to make a petty partisan point that has nothing to do with grenfell tower?

Ironically your conflation of two unrelated issues to score points on a messageboard kinda illustrates the point ive been making about a tragedy being hijacked.

Lower than a snake's belly mate.

[Colr]

FFS Get a room!

[johnbc70]

You don't like the facts. I've got that now.:aok:

They have been charged with what? Would love to know.

[ronaldo7]

So the police and / or the electoral commission have made a judgement have they?

Or are you just wading in, ironicallu to a discussion about politicising the deaths of 70 plus people, armed with a report from C4 news and passing it off as a fact to make a petty partisan point that has nothing to do with grenfell tower?

Ironically your conflation of two unrelated issues to score points on a messageboard kinda illustrates the point ive been making about a tragedy being hijacked.

Lower than a snake's belly mate.

You seem to be at ease with making partisan points against John McDonnell, et al. The day of rage was brought into the conversation by...YOU.

Double standards matey.

[Just Alf]

And BACK on track... Now 11 high rise's found to have the dodgy cladding.

It's going to be interesting to find out if the use of this cladding was driven by legislation or lack of it (its already been claimed that the other 3 home nations are clear of the stuff) or if someone was cutting corners... On the latter I've read that a council down south have already started action to remove the cladding and have called out the contractor on it.


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[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

You seem to be at ease with making partisan points against John McDonnell, et al. The day of rage was brought into the conversation by...YOU.

Double standards matey.

No it wasnt. It was 'Betty Boop'.

Im away, this has been a pretty shameful display and you are dragging me down to your level, which i dont like.

[ronaldo7]

And BACK on track... Now 11 high rise's found to have the dodgy cladding.

It's going to be interesting to find out if the use of this cladding was driven by legislation or lack of it (its already been claimed that the other 3 home nations are clear of the stuff) or if someone was cutting corners... On the latter I've read that a council down south have already started action to remove the cladding and have called out the contractor on it.


Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Camden have said they specified non combustible stuff, but got lower grade stuff in the final build. They're now going after the installer.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

And BACK on track... Now 11 high rise's found to have the dodgy cladding.

It's going to be interesting to find out if the use of this cladding was driven by legislation or lack of it (its already been claimed that the other 3 home nations are clear of the stuff) or if someone was cutting corners... On the latter I've read that a council down south have already started action to remove the cladding and have called out the contractor on it.


Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Camden council official on c4 news blaming the firm, saying they specified fire proof material but clearly it isnt.

[Just Alf]

Croydon have said they specified non combustible stuff, but got lower grade stuff in the final build. They're now going after the installer.
I hope to god that that didn't happen at Grenfell, if it has, and it's not just a horrific accident then someone will end up in jail, and, probably worse, have to live with this the rest of their lives.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[lord bunberry]

And BACK on track... Now 11 high rise's found to have the dodgy cladding.

It's going to be interesting to find out if the use of this cladding was driven by legislation or lack of it (its already been claimed that the other 3 home nations are clear of the stuff) or if someone was cutting corners... On the latter I've read that a council down south have already started action to remove the cladding and have called out the contractor on it.


Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
I suspect it's been driven by cost. I don't want to sound like someone who is looking back to the olden days, but as soon as safety and health are outsourced to private companies it can only lead to a poorer service for the people who rely on it. Profit is always going to have a detrimental effect on service provided.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I suspect it's been driven by cost. I don't want to sound like someone who is looking back to the olden days, but as soon as safety and health are outsourced to private companies it can only lead to a poorer service for the people who rely on it. Profit is always going to have a detrimental effect on service provided.

Well I do. This is what happens when the profit motive replaces public service. There needs to be a root and branch independent investigation into all of it. Billions of pounds are being paid to private companies to run council services either directly or through outsourcing. This has to be reconsidered. It's public money going to unaccountable bodies.

[Just Alf]

Well I do. This is what happens when the profit motive replaces public service. There needs to be a root and branch independent investigation into all of it. Billions of pounds are being paid to private companies to run council services either directly or through outsourcing. This has to be reconsidered. It's public money going to unaccountable bodies.
I'm tending to agree with you here... Which then begs the question, as the legislation in this area is devolved to the the 4 separate countries what is different in England compared to the other 3?

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[lord bunberry]

Well I do. This is what happens when the profit motive replaces public service. There needs to be a root and branch independent investigation into all of it. Billions of pounds are being paid to private companies to run council services either directly or through outsourcing. This has to be reconsidered. It's public money going to unaccountable bodies.
I'm not a labour voter, but it does make their manifesto a bit more appealing. I'd personally love for all vital industries to be nationalised. It doesn't have to be like the 1970s again.

[Jack]

Why would anybody cover up the number of fatalities? At this stage it's an ongoing investigation. Let's not go with conspiracy theories before we know everything. The situation on fatalities will be become clearer as the building is forensically searched, and, sadly, the death toll may well rise. In the meantime the government needs to urgently find out what went to badly wrong and ensure people in other blocks across the country are safe.

Why anyone would want to cover up the number of fatalities is a question on it's own. One would have to think about who has most to lose?

But there is more than one way to work anything out.

If you can't count the dead then let's try and count the survivors.

Best I've seen is 150 or so.

The flats were designed to accommodate 600 or so.

Let's assume it wasn't at full occupancy.

79 dead still isn't plausible.

[Hibrandenburg]

May states nothing we didn't already know surely? It was reported on day 1 after the fire that UK specifications permit combustible insulation on tower blocks. This has been known about for quite some time now. The local authorities, fire services, building contractors and the manufacturers must have known this too?

Germany is the only country in Europe where flammable insulation/cladding is not permitted on buildings taller than 22m! The reason why is obvious ... according to the Federal German Fire Chief, the rest of Europe thought the Germans were being too stringent with their specifications: they were wrong!

That's pretty much the German take on things here on the news. Utter disbelief that legislation allowed this. Why is it that we always close the stable door after the horse has bolted?

[Jack]

No it wasnt. It was 'Betty Boop'.

Im away, this has been a pretty shameful display and you are dragging me down to your level, which i dont like.

Suck it up big boy.

Even at a low level of PR the Torys mucked up monumentally.

At a local level there's already been forced Tory resignations and at a national level the the PM was booed off the estate be everyone including kids.

The Torys recently voted against legislation that would have made an event like this unlikely in the future.

If you want to go further back there's umpteen examples of the Torys gerrymandering in the London boroughs.

There are many failings in this cluster****. If there's Labour failings it's mostly at not overturning the Tory race to riches for the few while the many strive to survive against the odds.

Your defence of the indefensible and deflection from the reality that this tragedy isn't completely embroiled in Tory mantra is as pathetic as it weak and wobbly.

[lapsedhibee]

Camden have said they specified non combustible stuff, but got lower grade stuff in the final build. They're now going after the installer.
I didn't hear the Camden wumman say that.

Camden council official on c4 news blaming the firm, saying they specified fire proof material but clearly it isnt.
I didn't hear her say that either.
I heard her say "fire resistant" which may well not be the same as fireproof or non combustible. She might have got what she specified, but not properly understood what it was that she specified.

[Colr]

I didn't hear the Camden wumman say that.

I didn't hear her say that either.
I heard her say "fire resistant" which may well not be the same as fireproof or non combustible. She might have got what she specified, but not properly understood what it was that she specified.

In fairness its a technical issue. The leader does not do the specification. reynobond PE actually burns and that's the issue along woth the apparent lack of cavity fire breaks at every storey.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Suck it up big boy.

Even at a low level of PR the Torys mucked up monumentally.

At a local level there's already been forced Tory resignations and at a national level the the PM was booed off the estate be everyone including kids.

The Torys recently voted against legislation that would have made an event like this unlikely in the future.

If you want to go further back there's umpteen examples of the Torys gerrymandering in the London boroughs.

There are many failings in this cluster****. If there's Labour failings it's mostly at not overturning the Tory race to riches for the few while the many strive to survive against the odds.

Your defence of the indefensible and deflection from the reality that this tragedy isn't completely embroiled in Tory mantra is as pathetic as it weak and wobbly.

For the record, i havent defended anything, tory or otherwise.

Ive said we should wait and see what the actual problem is, and who is responsible.

Only people desperate to blame their bete noir, justified or not, would have an issue with that.

So how about you suck that up, big boy.

[Jack]

For the record, i havent defended anything, tory or otherwise.

Ive said we should wait and see what the actual problem is, and who is responsible.

Only people desperate to blame their bete noir, justified or not, would have an issue with that.

So how about you suck that up, big boy.

You've failed spectacularly. Tory policies have brought us here.

Humility isn't your strong point.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

You've failed spectacularly. Tory policies have brought us here.

Humility isn't your strong point.

And accuracy isnt yours.

[Moulin Yarns]

If it hadn't happened now, it would have happened sometime in the future, and who would be responsible

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/22/government-backed-red-tape-group-eu-fire-safety-rules-grenfell-fireeu-fire-safety-rules-grenfell-fire (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/22/government-backed-red-tape-group-https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/22/government-backed-red-tape-group-eu-fire-safety-rules-grenfell-fireeu-fire-safety-rules-grenfell-fire)

[Betty Boop]

Camden Council currently evacuating one of their tower blocks.


All five tower blocks now being evacuated, 800 households.

[Pete]

Camden Council currently evacuating one of their tower blocks.


All five tower blocks now being evacuated, 800 households.

I'm hearing it's just one as a precautionary measure. I wonder where they'll be housed and how long it will take.

They've released the serial number of the fridge freezer that started it all and it's suspiciously like mine. FFS first a dodgy tumble dryer and now this.

[Mr Grieves]

Camden Council currently evacuating one of their tower blocks.


All five tower blocks now being evacuated, 800 households.

The company that applied cladding to Grenfell also carried out the refurbishment of the evacuated blocks...

[Hibernia&Alba]

Lots of councils will be removing the cladding and, presumably, replace it with higher standard products. It's going to take a long time and cost hundreds of millions. It will be interesting to see if other councils start evacuating residents.

[beensaidbefore]

Suck it up big boy.

Even at a low level of PR the Torys mucked up monumentally.

At a local level there's already been forced Tory resignations and at a national level the the PM was booed off the estate be everyone including kids.

The Torys recently voted against legislation that would have made an event like this unlikely in the future.

If you want to go further back there's umpteen examples of the Torys gerrymandering in the London boroughs.

There are many failings in this cluster****. If there's Labour failings it's mostly at not overturning the Tory race to riches for the few while the many strive to survive against the odds.

Your defence of the indefensible and deflection from the reality that this tragedy isn't completely embroiled in Tory mantra is as pathetic as it weak and wobbly.


Give it a break man. Not everythi g that goes wrong in life is down to torys and tory voters.

[Jack]

Give it a break man. Not everythi g that goes wrong in life is down to torys and tory voters.

No, I agree, not everything.

Struggling to see how they're not up to their necks in this though.

[RyeSloan]

No, I agree, not everything.

Struggling to see how they're not up to their necks in this though.

Camden Council is a Labour Council....another £66m spent recently on social housing seems to betray somewhat the Tories / austerity narrative that some want to apply to this tragedy.

I'm much more interested in why such cladding is allowed and if it's allowed due it being considered safe if installed correctly who has been responsible for assuring and approving the building works.

I'm also a bit confused about the fire service comments about the fridge freezer fire 'being put out' only for them to spot flames externally when they were leaving. I assume no one would ever deliberately leave a fire burning no matter the fire service but is there not questions to be asked of some of their decisions on that evening?

[Colr]

Camden Council is a Labour Council....another £66m spent recently on social housing seems to betray somewhat the Tories / austerity narrative that some want to apply to this tragedy.

I'm much more interested in why such cladding is allowed and if it's allowed due it being considered safe if installed correctly who has been responsible for assuring and approving the building works.

I'm also a bit confused about the fire service comments about the fridge freezer fire 'being put out' only for them to spot flames externally when they were leaving. I assume no one would ever deliberately leave a fire burning no matter the fire service but is there not questions to be asked of some of their decisions on that evening?

Building controlmwas depleted greatly in England under the Thatcher government. You can get away with stuff down here that wouldn't be permitted in Scotland.

[beensaidbefore]

Building controlmwas depleted greatly in England under the Thatcher government. You can get away with stuff down here that wouldn't be permitted in Scotland.

Fair dos. But labour got in 20 years ago now and were in long enough to have made necessary changes to legislation. This goes above and beyond any one party or person IMO.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Fair dos. But labour got in 20 years ago now and were in long enough to have made necessary changes to legislation. This goes above and beyond any one party or person IMO.

That's a nonsense argument, how far back do you want to go?
The buck stops with the current incumbents, they've been the government for long enough.

[beensaidbefore]

That's a nonsense argument, how far back do you want to go?
The buck stops with the current incumbents, they've been the government for long enough.

The post I was replying to mentioned the Thatcher days and legislation introduced then. My point is there has been ample opportunity in the last 20 odd years to do something. Why did labour not do anything if it was such an issue? Yeah the Tories haven't done anything, but what did labour do?

[hibsbollah]

The post I was replying to mentioned the Thatcher days and legislation introduced then. My point is there has been ample opportunity in the last 20 odd years to do something. Why did labour not do anything if it was such an issue? Yeah the Tories haven't done anything, but what did labour do?

It's about austerity. Started in 2009 as a response to the global economic crisis, has frozen council pay and local government budgets for 9 years and according to current government chat will go on doing so until at least 2026, despite inflation now pushing 3%. Thus is an unprecedented attack on some of the basic services we All depend on and it's going to have consequences that no one can foresee yet.

[beensaidbefore]

It's about austerity. Started in 2009 as a response to the global economic crisis, has frozen council pay and local government budgets for 9 years and according to current government chat will go on doing so until at least 2026, despite inflation now pushing 3%. Thus is an unprecedented attack on some of the basic services we All depend on and it's going to have consequences that no one can foresee yet.

That I can understand. But that doesn't explain why more wasn't done pre 2009 when the going was good. The tories are being blamed for poor legislation choices in the 80s, austerity measures which impact on public services, and being criticised for making money available for public housing to be done up. If the houses needed done up why did labour not do it. And if, as was suggested elsewhere, a labour run council, why are the Tories getting the blame for the construction material choices etc. I am not a Tory voter but find all this point scoring but much.

[lord bunberry]

That I can understand. But that doesn't explain why more wasn't done pre 2009 when the going was good. The tories are being blamed for poor legislation choices in the 80s, austerity measures which impact on public services, and being criticised for making money available for public housing to be done up. If the houses needed done up why did labour not do it. And if, as was suggested elsewhere, a labour run council, why are the Tories getting the blame for the construction material choices etc. I am not a Tory voter but find all this point scoring but much.

I don't completely blame the Tories, The labour government of that time were as close to the Tories policy wise as they've ever been in history.
Thank god we finally have a Labour Party that stands up for its core values, despite the doubters who said it would be political suicide. I remember when Edd Milliband was elected and all the new labour stalwarts claimed a lurch to the left would be disastrous for the party, they were wrong and Milliband was an idiot for not realising it.

[Colr]

I don't completely blame the Tories, The labour government of that time were as close to the Tories policy wise as they've ever been in history.
Thank god we finally have a Labour Party that stands up for its core values, despite the doubters who said it would be political suicide. I remember when Edd Milliband was elected and all the new labour stalwarts claimed a lurch to the left would be disastrous for the party, they were wrong and Milliband was an idiot for not realising it.

The saddest thing is that people believe that Tory clap-trap!

I built 40 schools and hundereds of affordble homes under Labour, I've done very little since they went (but I'n paid much more).

[lord bunberry]

The saddest thing is that people believe that Tory clap-trap!

I built 40 schools and hundereds of affordble homes under Labour, I've done very little since they went (but I'n paid much more).

I agree that labour did well in the building of schools, but the affordable homes was and still is a drop in the ocean. For the avoidance of doubt I'm in no way defending the Tories here, all I'm saying is that the previous labour government could have done so much more with the favourable economic situation they inherited.

[ronaldo7]

Now up to 75 high rise buildings in 26 local authorities which have failed the fire safety tests.

Not sure whether any are in Scotland, as Mr Javid never mentioned it in his speech.

[Mr Grieves]

Now up to 75 high rise buildings in 26 local authorities which have failed the fire safety tests.

Not sure whether any are in Scotland, as Mr Javid never mentioned it in his speech.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40406057

Building regs are tighter in Scotland.

[Colr]

Now up to 75 high rise buildings in 26 local authorities which have failed the fire safety tests.

Not sure whether any are in Scotland, as Mr Javid never mentioned it in his speech.

We have yet to start on all the other buildings that may be clad in this stuff and will now be uninsurable

[ronaldo7]

We have yet to start on all the other buildings that may be clad in this stuff and will now be uninsurable

Public buildings, including schools, hospitals etc. It's a nightmare, right enough.

[Colr]

Public buildings, including schools, hospitals etc. It's a nightmare, right enough.

Office buildings. Have a look around. There's loads of it on offices.

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/grenfell-tower-fire-man-arrested-false-claim-relatives-housing-money-metropolitan-police-residents-a7815186.html


Police have arrested a man accused of falsely claiming his relatives had died in the Grenfell Tower (http://www.independent.co.uk/topic/grenfell-tower) fire to gain housing and money.

The 52-year-old man, who has not been named, came forward in the aftermath of the disaster posing as a victim.


******* sickening:bitchy:

[Scouse Hibee]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/grenfell-tower-fire-man-arrested-false-claim-relatives-housing-money-metropolitan-police-residents-a7815186.html


Police have arrested a man accused of falsely claiming his relatives had died in the Grenfell Tower (http://www.independent.co.uk/topic/grenfell-tower) fire to gain housing and money.

The 52-year-old man, who has not been named, came forward in the aftermath of the disaster posing as a victim.


******* sickening:bitchy:

Sickening but not surprising in today's world.

[High-On-Hibs]

From what i'm hearing, the £5000 being given to these people will impact other benefits that they're on. :rolleyes:

[Hibernia&Alba]

From what i'm hearing, the £5000 being given to these people will impact other benefits that they're on. :rolleyes:

I was reading earlier that some residents are still having rent taken from their bank accounts for homes that are no longer there.

[High-On-Hibs]

I was reading earlier that some residents are still having rent taken from their bank accounts for homes that are no longer there.

If that's the case, they'll be paying full whack, as apparently this "extra" money will stop any housing benefits they are on.

[EH6 Hibby]

I watched a video on Facebook earlier that was filmed at a residents meeting, where the woman talking said that all victims have had letters from the DWP telling them that they must declare all donations and aid that they have received because it will affect their benefits.

[High-On-Hibs]

I watched a video on Facebook earlier that was filmed at a residents meeting, where the woman talking said that all victims have had letters from the DWP telling them that they must declare all donations and aid that they have received because it will affect their benefits.

I've seen this as well. This woman out of nowhere already sounds like she'd be a vastly superior prime minister to the joke we currently have.

[EH6 Hibby]

I've seen this as well. This woman out of nowhere already sounds like she'd be a vastly superior prime minister to the joke we currently have.

From what she said, the relief efforts by the authorities have been a joke so far.

[21.05.2016]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/grenfell-tower-fire-man-arrested-false-claim-relatives-housing-money-metropolitan-police-residents-a7815186.html


Police have arrested a man accused of falsely claiming his relatives had died in the Grenfell Tower (http://www.independent.co.uk/topic/grenfell-tower) fire to gain housing and money.

The 52-year-old man, who has not been named, came forward in the aftermath of the disaster posing as a victim.


******* sickening:bitchy:

Disgusting. Latching onto peoples real life horrific situation just to milk some money. Some people have absolutely no shame.

[hibsbollah]

Fairly unbelievable development. Fraud squad brought in to investigate £184million contract awarded to a firm who had a contract to install fire alarm systems but the work was never done at Grenfell tower and allegedly 100s of other buildings.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/fraud-squad-probe-into-grenfell-tower-fire-alarms-firm-a3579206.html

Meanwhile a toothless public inquiry is launched by the Government with narrow terms of reference that is just making the same mistakes as Hillsborough. Should have gone straight to a coroners inquest.

[Sylar]

I was contacted by a BBC journalist this evening about the recent claims regarding water pressure hampering rescue/firefighting efforts.

Thames Water have dismissed the claims as 'categorically untrue', but the question is whether they had an option to increase water pressure to the local area temporarily.

I noticed a few outlets had picked up this story (raised by one of the firefighters), but it seems it's an area of genuine interest for the press now!

[hibsbollah]

I was contacted by a BBC journalist this evening about the recent claims regarding water pressure hampering rescue/firefighting efforts.

Thames Water have dismissed the claims as 'categorically untrue', but the question is whether they had an option to increase water pressure to the local area temporarily.

I noticed a few outlets had picked up this story (raised by one of the firefighters), but it seems it's an area of genuine interest for the press now!

So what was your response? Could thames water have upped the pressure or whatever to make it easier for the firemen? From this layman's eye by the time the tenders had got there the fire was so ferocious it wouldn't have made much difference.

[RyeSloan]

So what was your response? Could thames water have upped the pressure or whatever to make it easier for the firemen? From this layman's eye by the time the tenders had got there the fire was so ferocious it wouldn't have made much difference.

That doesn't tie with the fact they were leaving the building thinking they had put the fire out.

The fact the London Fire Service has already changed its procedures suggests to me that there is questions to be asked about their actions that evening.

And as suspected there is a lot of angles to why what happened happened and I suspect that there will be multiple points of failure where this tragedy could have been avoided.

[Sylar]

So what was your response? Could thames water have upped the pressure or whatever to make it easier for the firemen? From this layman's eye by the time the tenders had got there the fire was so ferocious it wouldn't have made much difference.

My understanding is that it's very difficult for water companies to rapidly adjust water pressure in particular locales at short notice, but my expertise aren't in engineered water systems and I didn't want my name being quoted against something that might be wrong, so I ended up directing him toward a friend of mine who works in that area.

A lot of water companies across the UK have been accused of maintaining lower pressures to ensure they're leak compliant, something this awful event has brought into the discussion. If that's the case here, then Thames Water may have a case to answer, but it wouldn't be exclusively in relation to Grenfell.

[hibsbollah]

My understanding is that it's very difficult for water companies to rapidly adjust water pressure in particular locales at short notice

Thanks, that was my assumption:agree:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Why anyone would want to cover up the number of fatalities is a question on it's own. One would have to think about who has most to lose?

But there is more than one way to work anything out.

If you can't count the dead then let's try and count the survivors.

Best I've seen is 150 or so.

The flats were designed to accommodate 600 or so.

Let's assume it wasn't at full occupancy.

79 dead still isn't plausible.

So apparently 71 confirmed to habe died.

I wonder if all the experts on here will admit they were wildly speculating without facts?

[Hibrandenburg]

So apparently 71 confirmed to habe died.

I wonder if all the experts on here will admit they were wildly speculating without facts?

Pretty poor post and attempt at petty point scoring. The fact is it's taken over 6 months for the official death toll to confirm that what people on the ground already knew at the time. The final death toll is pretty much exactly what the local residents knew it to be in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy. The government and local authorities have only themselves to blame for the understandable anger shown by residents at Grenfell.

[RyeSloan]

Pretty poor post and attempt at petty point scoring. The fact is it's taken over 6 months for the official death toll to confirm that what people on the ground already knew at the time. The final death toll is pretty much exactly what the local residents knew it to be in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy. The government and local authorities have only themselves to blame for the understandable anger shown by residents at Grenfell.

It's not a poor post at all...what was poor was people running up all sorts of conspiracy theories at the time. Theories that have been proven to be incorrect and misinformed.

The authorities stated all along that they would need time to confirm the numbers due to the nature of the disaster.

[cabbageandribs1875]

It's not a poor post at all...what was poor was people running up all sorts of conspiracy theories at the time. Theories that have been proven to be incorrect and misinformed.

The authorities stated all along that they would need time to confirm the numbers due to the nature of the disaster.



good point, 'several hundred' missing, government cover-ups, protest marches organised, demands for enquiries just 48 hours after etc etc

[Hibrandenburg]

It's not a poor post at all...what was poor was people running up all sorts of conspiracy theories at the time. Theories that have been proven to be incorrect and misinformed.

The authorities stated all along that they would need time to confirm the numbers due to the nature of the disaster.

You mean theories like the total death count is nearer 79 and not 17, or that residents had raised concerns about the cladding prior to the fire, or that relatives of people missing and unaccounted for were being blanked when asking if their relatives were amongst survivors being treated in hospital? These were all things that happened in the immediate aftermath of the fire. The government and local authorities have only themselves to blame.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

You mean theories like the total death count is nearer 79 and not 17, or that residents had raised concerns about the cladding prior to the fire, or that relatives of people missing and unaccounted for were being blanked when asking if their relatives were amongst survivors being treated in hospital? These were all things that happened in the immediate aftermath of the fire. The government and local authorities have only themselves to blame.

No, i mean claims that tge estinated death toll of around 70 was implausible, that there was some sort of politically morivated cover-up going on. Plenty of people were quick to dismiss the official explanation without any evidence, i wonder if they will be so quick to admit that they were actually in the wrong?

Fair enough if you think it is a poor post, but i dont.

[RyeSloan]

You mean theories like the total death count is nearer 79 and not 17, or that residents had raised concerns about the cladding prior to the fire, or that relatives of people missing and unaccounted for were being blanked when asking if their relatives were amongst survivors being treated in hospital? These were all things that happened in the immediate aftermath of the fire. The government and local authorities have only themselves to blame.

No I mean the likes of Lilly Allen running her mouth off saying the death toll was 150 or people posting doctored images of the red arrows flying over the burnt out block or the accusations of the death toll being deliberately massaged.

The BBC reported quite early on that 70 odd people were missing. The authorities stated it would take a lot of effort to confirm actual deaths. It seems like that's exactly what has happened.

Should the authorities have dealt with it better? Of course they should have but none the less the was plenty of people peddling misinformation around a tragic event to further their own agendas.

[Johnny Clash]

No, i mean claims that tge estinated death toll of around 70 was implausible, that there was some sort of politically morivated cover-up going on. Plenty of people were quick to dismiss the official explanation without any evidence, i wonder if they will be so quick to admit that they were actually in the wrong?

Fair enough if you think it is a poor post, but i dont.

I think most of us Londoners feared the worst when you looked at the horrendous scale of the tragedy. Many experienced fire fighters in the Fire brigade thought the death toll would be much higher. They weren’t saying that as some conspiracy or to stir things up. It was their honest assessment based on what they saw that horrible night. In fact even the Met police themselves announced 79 deaths back in June!

So those who are being all pious and smug maybe ought to just reflect on the tragedy and whether or not it was avoidable instead of pointing fingers at those raising their genuine concerns!

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I think most of us Londoners feared the worst when you looked at the horrendous scale of the tragedy. Many experienced fire fighters in the Fire brigade thought the death toll would be much higher. They weren’t saying that as some conspiracy or to stir things up. It was their honest assessment based on what they saw that horrible night. In fact even the Met police themselves announced 79 deaths back in June!

So those who are being all pious and smug maybe ought to just reflect on the tragedy and whether or not it was avoidable instead of pointing fingers at those raising their genuine concerns!

I dont think im being pious or smug. I said at the time lets wait and see what happens. But to many, a chance to turn tge tragedy and the 'cover up' too bash the tories and the establishment was too tempting.

I got into quite a heated argument becuase i called some people out on hijacking the deaths of x amount of people for tenuous political aims, and i was slaughtered by many as some sort of tory apologist... of course the numbers woyld be higher, the tories just didnt want to admit how many had died etc etc

Lots of people made wild assertions based on nothing more than their own political bias. I dont think its unreasonable to hold people to their claims.

[Johnny Clash]

I dont think im being pious or smug. I said at the time lets wait and see what happens. But to many, a chance to turn tge tragedy and the 'cover up' too bash the tories and the establishment was too tempting.

I got into quite a heated argument becuase i called some people out on hijacking the deaths of x amount of people for tenuous political aims, and i was slaughtered by many as some sort of tory apologist... of course the numbers woyld be higher, the tories just didnt want to admit how many had died etc etc

Lots of people made wild assertions based on nothing more than their own political bias. I dont think its unreasonable to hold people to their claims.

If it is 71 proven deaths then it’s still an awful tragedy surely? I think it’s reasonable to reflect on that. if politicians have needlessly put lives at risk to save a few quid then they need jailed!

Just like piper alpha , king cross fire etc those guilty have never once been jailed. It’s corporate man slaughter (homicide in Scotland) and those responsible are the CEOs and heads of companies/decision makers. if it’s proven selfish, greedy politicians are guilty then fines, slaps on wrists, removal from honours lists not good enough. They must do time !

[ronaldo7]

So apparently 71 confirmed to habe died.

I wonder if all the experts on here will admit they were wildly speculating without facts?

I'd be more worried if I were still in temporary housing after being told I'd be re-housed within a month.

You bash on though.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I'd be more worried if I were still in temporary housing after being told I'd be re-housed within a month.

You bash on though.

Ill take that as a no then.

Whats wrong, had your branch political education officer not given you lines for that... 😀

[ronaldo7]

Ill take that as a no then.

Whats wrong, had your branch political education officer not given you lines for that... 😀

Point me to just one of my posts that alludes to number of people dead in the disaster, just one.

You really should start thinking for yourself instead of using MA's lines.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Point me to just one of my posts that alludes to number of people dead in the disaster, just one.

You really should start thinking for yourself instead of using MA's lines.

😂 irony overload...

[ronaldo7]

😂 irony overload...

Any post mate, just one will do. 😊

[hibsbollah]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/17/citiscape-croydon-2m-recladding-bill-prompted-grenfell-disaster

And so it goes on...

[Hibrandenburg]

Words fail me!

https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-effigy-bonfire-burned-guy-fawkes-party-a8618661.html%3famp

[Lendo]

Words fail me!

https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-effigy-bonfire-burned-guy-fawkes-party-a8618661.html%3famp

Give you one guess as to how they voted in the BREXIT referendum.

[danhibees1875]

Give you one guess as to how they voted in the BREXIT referendum.

That's a strange initial reaction. :confused:

[Slavers]

That's a strange initial reaction. :confused:

You have to understand that for some Brexit must be demonized at every opportunity.
.

[Lendo]

That's a strange initial reaction. :confused:

Is it strange? Usually one of my first thoughts when i see these awful things is to think 'would this have happened pre-brexit?' I'm not naive enough to think that racism and xenophobia didn't exist before, but it now seems to be the norm in our society.

[Hibrandenburg]

Is it strange? Usually one of my first thoughts when i see these awful things is to think 'would this have happened pre-brexit?' I'm not naive enough to think that racism and xenophobia didn't exist before, but it now seems to be the norm in our society.

Salonfähig ist the German word for what you're describing. Racism and xenophobia has always been bubbling away under the surface in British society. The political campaigns of Farage, Johnson and co in the lead up to Brexit have made it socially acceptable and given racists the green light to crawl out from under their stones.

[makaveli1875]

Is it strange? Usually one of my first thoughts when i see these awful things is to think 'would this have happened pre-brexit?' I'm not naive enough to think that racism and xenophobia didn't exist before, but it now seems to be the norm in our society.

Lockerbie and 9/11 both happened pre brexit and both were mocked in the same sickening way . Racism and xenophobia pre-date brexit by hundreds if not thousands of years.

Were you walking around blindfolded with your fingers in your ears pre brexit ?

[danhibees1875]

Is it strange? Usually one of my first thoughts when i see these awful things is to think 'would this have happened pre-brexit?' I'm not naive enough to think that racism and xenophobia didn't exist before, but it now seems to be the norm in our society.

I think it's strange to view a pretty heinous video of some idiots and immidietly politicise it and associate it with voting preference. I think it does a disservice to the vast majority of people who voted to leave - some of who will post on here and should be free from being linked to such events.

Idiots will be idiots and always have been idiots - they don't need votes as an excuse. They're not the norm though, they get more media attention but they're not the norm.

[Smartie]

It's a bit chicken and egg with the whole Brexit/ racism thing.

There was a change in the acceptance of racist behaviour over a few years leading up to the Brexit vote. I think that the vote going the way it did was as much a symptom of the rise in open racism as it was a cause, although the 2 definitely feed off each other in a very strange and disturbing way.

[wpj]

Words fail me!

https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-effigy-bonfire-burned-guy-fawkes-party-a8618661.html%3famp

That is awful, 5 people arrested apparently.

[blaikie]

Is it strange? Usually one of my first thoughts when i see these awful things is to think 'would this have happened pre-brexit?' I'm not naive enough to think that racism and xenophobia didn't exist before, but it now seems to be the norm in our society.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=756896101322446&id=155710354774360

Short video posted by momentum kinda sums up the connection between Grenfell and the poisonous climate at the moment. I can certainly see where your coming from.

[Alex Trager]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=756896101322446&id=155710354774360

Short video posted by momentum kinda sums up the connection between Grenfell and the poisonous climate at the moment. I can certainly see where your coming from.

That’s a hard hitting video

[GlesgaeHibby]

Words fail me!

https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-effigy-bonfire-burned-guy-fawkes-party-a8618661.html%3famp

In horrifically bad taste, but worthy of arrest?

[Hibrandenburg]

In horrifically bad taste, but worthy of arrest?

Public order offences like causing others distress or harassment are criminal offences and carry a possible prison sentence of up to 6 months, insulting behaviour is also criminal and can get you a fine.

So yes, they're worthy of arrests.

[makaveli1875]

Public order offences like causing others distress or harassment are criminal offences and carry a possible prison sentence of up to 6 months, insulting behaviour is also criminal and can get you a fine.

So yes, they're worthy of arrests.

They essentially set a cardboard box on fire in their back garden . Meanwhile the people responsible for the actual fire that people died in walk free . What a crazy country we live in .

[Hibrandenburg]

They essentially set a cardboard box on fire in their back garden . Meanwhile the people responsible for the actual fire that people died in walk free . What a crazy country we live in .

There's a bit more to it than simply setting a cardboard box on fire. As for your other 2 points you'll hear no argument from me.

[Sir David Gray]

Give you one guess as to how they voted in the BREXIT referendum.

Disgraceful post.

[ronaldo7]

2 years on, and after being told by the tory prime minister that they'd be sorted within 3 weeks, some families are still not re housed.

They just don't give a ****.

[marinello59]

2 years on, and after being told by the tory prime minister that they'd be sorted within 3 weeks, some families are still not re housed.

They just don't give a ****.

It’s OK. Once Boris ‘man of the people’ Johnson becomes their leader these families will be his top priority. After tax cuts for the rich of course.

[Hibrandenburg]

It's an absolute travesty that much of the blame for the outcome of this tragedy is being put on the fire brigade.

[Fife-Hibee]

It's an absolute travesty that much of the blame for the outcome of this tragedy is being put on the fire brigade.

:agree:

Once again, a prime example of who ultimately controls the media.

[lord bunberry]

It's an absolute travesty that much of the blame for the outcome of this tragedy is being put on the fire brigade.
It’s an obvious attempt to deflect the blame from the real people who are responsible for this tragedy.
This is how Tories view the people living in difficult circumstances.
https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/1189201554827546624?s=21

[The Harp Awakes]

It’s an obvious attempt to deflect the blame from the real people who are responsible for this tragedy.
This is how Tories view the people living in difficult circumstances.
https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/1189201554827546624?s=21

Wow! Incredible how 36% of the UK population are forecast to vote for such despicable, nasty party.

[lord bunberry]

Wow! Incredible how 36% of the UK population are forecast to vote for such despicable, nasty party.
That guy in the interview sums up the Tories for me, absolute ****s.

[RyeSloan]

It's an absolute travesty that much of the blame for the outcome of this tragedy is being put on the fire brigade.

You do know that this is just the first part of the investigation?

And I’v not read them getting ‘much of the blame’. What I have read is what many suspected all along that LFB response was inadequate and as such may have resulted in additional fatalities.

[RyeSloan]

:agree:

Once again, a prime example of who ultimately controls the media.

Remind me again of who that is again?

And why does the reporting of the outcome of the part of the inquiry that is specifically focused on the LFB response get ‘prime example’ status?

[Cataplana]

That guy in the interview sums up the Tories for me, absolute ****s.

What sickens me is that lots of people will think the guy is great.

Edit: I knew I'd seen him before.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM

[Bostonhibby]

You do know that this is just the first part of the investigation?

And I’v not read them getting ‘much of the blame’. What I have read is what many suspected all along that LFB response was inadequate and as such may have resulted in additional fatalities.Yep, if justice is to be served the next stage really needs to get to the heart of the process by which the type of cladding was selected and procured.

The council's officials involvement in the approval of the fitting and their consideration of the risks that went with it need to come out.

You'd hope that no stone will be left unturned now the fire brigades role has been dealt with, it does feel out of sequence to round on them first but maybe it's taking longer to get through all the council's and their contractors records.





Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Colr]

You do know that this is just the first part of the investigation?

And I’v not read them getting ‘much of the blame’. What I have read is what many suspected all along that LFB response was inadequate and as such may have resulted in additional fatalities.

If the building had not been wrapped in flammable material around a facade with multiple gaps between the external wall and the interior of the flats, their advice would have been correct.

They couldn’t have known what level of ****show had been performed on that building to create the disaster when they arrived.

[overdrive]

I was looking at a home report for a flat that is for sale in the development next to ER on the old car park. It scored a ‘3’ for the main walls with a comment from the surveyor: “Elements of the cladding finishes may be formed in combustible material”. I suspect this may be the surveyor watching his back but it definitely put me off!

[hibee_girl]

I was looking at a home report for a flat that is for sale in the development next to ER on the old car park. It scored a ‘3’ for the main walls with a comment from the surveyor: “Elements of the cladding finishes may be formed in combustible material”. I suspect this may be the surveyor watching his back but it definitely put me off!

Lots of people here have had trouble selling because of this.

[Peevemor]

Lots of people here have had trouble selling because of this.Which is is a pity, given that the cladding is only problematic on high-rise buildings.

[hibsbollah]

No back up file, never clipped on an email or saved on the cloud. All sensitive files were on the one laptop and now gone forever? :dunno:
:https://www.itv.com/news/london/2020-09-14/grenfell-files-lost-forever-after-laptop-wiped-inquiry-hears

[Jones28]

No back up file, never clipped on an email or saved on the cloud. All sensitive files were on the one laptop and now gone forever? :dunno:
:https://www.itv.com/news/london/2020-09-14/grenfell-files-lost-forever-after-laptop-wiped-inquiry-hears

Heard the quotes from the inquest today. He “assumed” the files would be backed up on a central server.

Uh huh.

[Peevemor]

No back up file, never clipped on an email or saved on the cloud. All sensitive files were on the one laptop and now gone forever? :dunno:
:https://www.itv.com/news/london/2020-09-14/grenfell-files-lost-forever-after-laptop-wiped-inquiry-hearsIf you read it he says that he doesn't think there was very much of interest stored on his laptop, with most of the important files being kept on their server.

[hibsbollah]

If you read it he says that he doesn't think there was very much of interest stored on his laptop, with most of the important files being kept on their server.

Do you think that’s credible? When you consider the scale of the project and the nature of the information?

[Jones28]

So with news today that firewatchers in high rise blocks are costing an average of £137 per month per household the government have announced a £30million pot of money to install fire alarms to flats that successfully win funding.

So...what happens when the pot is empty, do those that missed out just have to face paying ridiculous fees to literally have some patrolling their building to wake everyone up in the event of a fire? This aint the ****ing middle ages, why are the government so casual about repeats of Grenfell? Why are they not contracting firms in to rip off the defective cladding and protect residents?

[lapsedhibee]

Why are they not contracting firms in to rip off the defective cladding and protect residents?

Run out of chums to funnel funds to? :dunno:

[hibsbollah]

So with news today that firewatchers in high rise blocks are costing an average of £137 per month per household the government have announced a £30million pot of money to install fire alarms to flats that successfully win funding.

So...what happens when the pot is empty, do those that missed out just have to face paying ridiculous fees to literally have some patrolling their building to wake everyone up in the event of a fire? This aint the ****ing middle ages, why are the government so casual about repeats of Grenfell? Why are they not contracting firms in to rip off the defective cladding and protect residents?

Interesting investigation going on below, who are these people, what is their connection to the Tory Party and why are they refusing to testify to the inquiry?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/dec/23/tory-donor-was-key-shareholder-in-grenfell-cladding-firm-arconic

Id hazard a guess this story isn’t going to be dominating the headlines.

[Jones28]

Interesting investigation going on below, who are these people, what is their connection to the Tory Party and why are they refusing to testify to the inquiry?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/dec/23/tory-donor-was-key-shareholder-in-grenfell-cladding-firm-arconic

Id hazard a guess this story isn’t going to be dominating the headlines.

One question I’d have is was the donation pre or post fire? It wouldn’t be beyond some of these people to make a donation like that as a sweetener to the conservatives.

[Jones28]

A fund as been made available that would cover about 50% of buildings that are affected in London alone.

[hibsbollah]

One question I’d have is was the donation pre or post fire? It wouldn’t be beyond some of these people to make a donation like that as a sweetener to the conservatives.

Sounds like pre fire.