The Leaders Debate

[Pretty Boy]

The first one takes place on ITV tonight with 2 of the key players noticeably absent.

I can see the logic in Theresa May staying away. The Tories are 2-0 up in injury time and can only throw it away so perhaps saying nothing is the best thing she can do especially considering she does seem ill at ease in such scenarios. Jeremy Corbyn I understand less. Had he agreed he would have heaped pressure on May to turn up, if she refused he could have exploited her being 'scared' and had a platform to put his point across without a Tory right of reply. Had she been forced to u turn and take part he could have again used her propensity for chaging her mind on a whim against her. Against the 'strong and stable' backdrop that could have been an effective argument. I can't help but think Labour realise that whilst amongst a certain demographic Corbyn is an asset; he is a far bigger liability amongst another, larger one and having him front and centre on TV is nore damaging than potentially positive.

As it is I expect Nicola Sturgeon to control the debate again much like the last time she appeared. She's far and away the strongest character and generally speaks well publicly. Farron has a great opportunity to stake his claim as a realisitc alternative in much the same way Nick Clegg did in 2010 (before blowing it completely), Caroline Lucas is interesting and articulate and will hit her target audience and Nutall will prove to be the flop he is imo.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Agree about corbyn, bit of a strange one.

The only reason i can think of is that rather than him aiming at May, if she is absent he becomes the biggest fish and so they will all be gunning for him.

[danhibees1875]

Agree about corbyn, bit of a strange one.

The only reason i can think of is that rather than him aiming at May, if she is absent he becomes the biggest fish and so they will all be gunning for him.

You're probably right with that. Although given his stance of wanting a public debate I think at least showing up himself would have been a good start. :greengrin:

So is it just the 4 that are on tonight? Is there another debate with more of them as I'm sure I remember reading that there was a 7 way debate scheduled with all leaders...

[Moulin Yarns]

You're probably right with that. Although given his stance of wanting a public debate I think at least showing up himself would have been a good start. :greengrin:

So is it just the 4 that are on tonight? Is there another debate with more of them as I'm sure I remember reading that there was a 7 way debate scheduled with all leaders...

That is on BBC Scotland with the (mainly) branch managers.

[danhibees1875]

That is on BBC Scotland with the (mainly) branch managers.
Ah okay, got my wires crossed a tad. Thanks. :aok:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Leaders debate without the leaders of the two biggest UK parties. Corbyn should be there: there's a lot of positive proposals in the Labour manifesto which offer an alternative to austerity and would appeal to many. He should be using this platform to full advantage; I don't see what he has to lose. May is a terrible debater who lacks articulacy, so it's understandable she would duck it, as an appearance could only harm her.

Will they be empty chaired? Should be.

[Pete]

Leaders debate without the leaders of the two biggest UK parties. Corbyn should be there: there's a lot of positive proposals in the Labour manifesto which offer an alternative to austerity and would appeal to many. He should be using this platform to full advantage; I don't see what he has to lose. May is a terrible debater who lacks articulacy, so it's understandable she would duck it, as an appearance could only harm her.

Will they be empty chaired? Should be.

:agree:


Corbyn is definitely missing a trick here to get his message across.

[GlesgaeHibby]

The first one takes place on ITV tonight with 2 of the key players noticeably absent.

I can see the logic in Theresa May staying away. The Tories are 2-0 up in injury time and can only throw it away so perhaps saying nothing is the best thing she can do especially considering she does seem ill at ease in such scenarios. Jeremy Corbyn I understand less. Had he agreed he would have heaped pressure on May to turn up, if she refused he could have exploited her being 'scared' and had a platform to put his point across without a Tory right of reply. Had she been forced to u turn and take part he could have again used her propensity for chaging her mind on a whim against her. Against the 'strong and stable' backdrop that could have been an effective argument. I can't help but think Labour realise that whilst amongst a certain demographic Corbyn is an asset; he is a far bigger liability amongst another, larger one and having him front and centre on TV is nore damaging than potentially positive.

As it is I expect Nicola Sturgeon to control the debate again much like the last time she appeared. She's far and away the strongest character and generally speaks well publicly. Farron has a great opportunity to stake his claim as a realisitc alternative in much the same way Nick Clegg did in 2010 (before blowing it completely), Caroline Lucas is interesting and articulate and will hit her target audience and Nutall will prove to be the flop he is imo.

Presented with so many open goals yet refuses to kick the ball time and again. He should be on this to absolutely lay into May for running away and the Tory record.

[marinello59]

Rather surprisingly it's the Lib-Dem leader who is doing the best job of getting stuck in to the Tories so far. Sturgeon sounds like this is a Holyrood campaign rather than a Westminster one. Poor by her standards.

[Mon Dieu4]

Rather surprisingly it's the Lib-Dem leader who is doing the best job of getting stuck in to the Tories so far. Sturgeon sounds like this is a Holyrood campaign rather than a Westminster one. Poor by her standards.

I see it differently, think he's like a wee boy lost and all the ladies are giving a good account of themselves

[marinello59]

I see it differently, think he's like a wee boy lost and all the ladies are giving a good account of themselves

Caroline Lucas is doing very well. Leanne Wood has settled down well after a shaky start. I might be be too harsh on NS because she usually performs so well.

[Mon Dieu4]

Caroline Lucas is doing very well. Leanne Wood has settled down well after a shaky start. I might be be too harsh on NS because she usually performs so well.

It's maybe his style of delivery that turns me off, he always has a personal experience that he brings up, like his mum or granny, I know it's the done thing in polictical terms to try and make yourself relatable but just does the complete opposite for me

[JimBHibees]

:agree:


Corbyn is definitely missing a trick here to get his message across.

Totally agree makes no sense at all. He frequently moans about his press coverage yet chooses not to get his message across. Huge own goal and totally spineless by May.

[JimBHibees]

Rather surprisingly it's the Lib-Dem leader who is doing the best job of getting stuck in to the Tories so far. Sturgeon sounds like this is a Holyrood campaign rather than a Westminster one. Poor by her standards.

Disagree think Sturgeon best by miles. Farrows style of speaking to the viewer a little odd to be honest.

[marinello59]

It's maybe his style of delivery that turns me off, he always has a personal experience that he brings up, like his mum or granny, I know it's the done thing in polictical terms to try and make yourself relatable but just does the complete opposite for me

I think you have a point there, he does overdo it a wee bit. I'm going off him now. :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

Presented with so many open goals yet refuses to kick the ball time and again. He should be on this to absolutely lay into May for running away and the Tory record.

Totally agree don't get it.

[Mon Dieu4]

I think you have a point there, he does overdo it a wee bit. I'm going off him now. :greengrin

Growing up in Leith............:faf:

[Glory Lurker]

Nuttall gies ma boak the boak.

[marinello59]

Nuttall gies ma boak the boak.

A total non-entity who shouldn't be there.

[Mon Dieu4]

It's his kids now!!

At the next debate I'm playing Tim/Paul Bingo, everytime he mentions his family or Nuttall an Australian based points system you have to take a drink, you will end up hammered

[marinello59]

My U turn on Farron is complete. :greengrin He is exactly what I previously thought he was, he drips with insencerity.

[G B Young]

Take the SNP's 56 seats out of it and this lot won 13 seats in total at the last General Election. Corbyn and May's absence makes it all seem a bit daft.

[Mon Dieu4]

My U turn on Farron is complete. :greengrin He is exactly what I previously thought he was, he drips with insencerity.

My work here is done!!

In all seriousness the Lib Dems should be able to position themselves into a decent position in England but their policies are all a bit wishy washy, if they just got the right angle they could so well in winning votes from Labour but not with him in charge

[Glory Lurker]

Labour and Tories tweeting away about the debate they were both too scared to take part in. Politics is broken.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think the winner has to be Natalie. 😉

[marinello59]

Farron coming close to Monty Python's Yorkshiremen sketch now. :greengring

[EH6 Hibby]

The UKIP guy is just embarrassing himself, they are all laughing at him. Spinning the old line that England are subsidising Scotland.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Nuttall gies ma boak the boak.

He is coming over as unhinged; foaming at the mouth. Bit disturbing.

[Pretty Boy]

I always laughed when people suggested Farage was an 'ordinary bloke' and so on. Seeing Nuttall in action makes me think that by UKIP standards maybe Farage was positively normal after all.

What a slavering roaster. Has he managed a single answer that hasn't turned into a nonsensical rant about immigrants yet?

[Mon Dieu4]

The women come across as actual genuine people rather than snake oil salesmen who..pause...between...every......word

[marinello59]

The women come across as actual genuine people rather than snake oil salesmen who..pause...between...every......word

I couldn't help but notice that Nuttall's delivery was like Theresa May with a scouse accent.

[Slavers]

A bunch of chancers!

[Pete]

I thought they all did well in their own way and I'm saying that about the UKIP boy because he did well to talk over the childish sneering and digs whenever he mentioned immigration. Pretty poor.

The main things I took from it all was that the only thing UKIP are now are the party to vote for if you're a bit racist and the Country (and probably the world) would probably be a better place to live in if the greens were in charge.

[Colr]

Agree about corbyn, bit of a strange one.

The only reason i can think of is that rather than him aiming at May, if she is absent he becomes the biggest fish and so they will all be gunning for him.

In some ways, I understand it. These events usually favour the "challengers" and with May absent he would be the target figure for the others but in another way, he could have used it to focus his comments on May without her wiping the floor with him!!

Personally, I thinks its yet another missed tactical opportunity which shows what a ******g terrible leader he is.

[Colr]

My work here is done!!

In all seriousness the Lib Dems should be able to position themselves into a decent position in England but their policies are all a bit wishy washy, if they just got the right angle they could so well in winning votes from Labour but not with him in charge

I thought they might do well in London on the back of their proEU stance after the Richmond result but I'm not certain now. Cable might get back and Simon Hughes has a chance. My local Labour MP continuously points up her record of opposing Brexit to try and spike this argument and other local issues like Education spending seem to be getting more promenance.

[Colr]

I always laughed when people suggested Farage was an 'ordinary bloke' and so on. Seeing Nuttall in action makes me think that by UKIP standards maybe Farage was positively normal after all.

What a slavering roaster. Has he managed a single answer that hasn't turned into a nonsensical rant about immigrants yet?
Fafrge was a libertarian Nuttal's turned UKIP into the BNP and will lose the working class vote as a result.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Fafrge was a libertarian Nuttal's turned UKIP into the BNP and will lose the working class vote as a result.

Agree. Farage is starting to be made to look more reasonable by the way the party has gone since he left.

[JeMeSouviens]

Fafrge was a libertarian Nuttal's turned UKIP into the BNP and will lose the working class vote as a result.

He's losing almost all their vote - polling at around 5% atm (was double digits, averaging 12% at the start of the year).

[Colr]

He's losing almost all their vote - polling at around 5% atm (was double digits, averaging 12% at the start of the year).

Terrible tie as well.

[Mon Dieu4]

David Coburn is on the Scottish one, this will be fun

[Glory Lurker]

David Coburn is on the Scottish one, this will be fun

He gies ma boak's boak the boak.

[Mon Dieu4]

He gies ma boak's boak the boak.

He makes Nuttall look like the president of mensa

[marinello59]

Sturgeon and Davidson are just far too shouty. Awful stuff.

[Glory Lurker]

Loving Davidson getting shown up on Europe.

[Mon Dieu4]

Sturgeon and Davidson are just far too shouty. Awful stuff.

Sturgeon just owned her there, it's just made her even more shouty

[stoneyburn hibs]

Ruth the mooth does my box in , she's getting shown up.

[marinello59]

Sturgeon just owned her there, it's just made her even more shouty

Pity that policy is taking a second seat to petty point scoring from both of them.

[Mon Dieu4]

Pity that policy is taking a second seat to petty point scoring from both of them.

Sure is, someone needs to give some personal experiences of their family ;)

[marinello59]

Sure is, someone needs to give some personal experiences of their family ;)

Rennie is biding his time.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Kezia still towing the party line from London.

[Mon Dieu4]

Kezia still towing the party line from London.

I actually don't mind her or Davidson, just wish that they were allowed to come up with their own views and policies, I think that they would be better than they ones they are asked to act like they agree with, they are less extreme than their London counterparts

[pacoluna]

What the hell are they debating about devolved matters for.

[makaveli1875]

What the hell are they debating about devolved matters for.

it was members of the audience that brought them up , like the nurse that had Sturgeon squirming

[pacoluna]

it was members of the audience that brought them up , like the nurse that had Sturgeon squirming

BBC played a blinder protecting Ruth from Tory austerity charges while Nurse plant moaned about devolved issues. Same nurse that was on question time last week

[may 21/05/2016]

The BBC are bias there's a suprise


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pacoluna]

The BBC are bias there's a suprise


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SNP briefing that nurse is Tory councillor's wife

[Just Alf]

Sigh... Do they really need to cheat? Because that's what it really is isn't it?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[Mr Grieves]

How did Natalie do?

[may 21/05/2016]

SNP briefing that nurse is Tory councillor's wife

I know I thought I seen her on BBC question a couple weeks ago the political pundits the BBC are all unionists


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mr Grieves]

SNP briefing that nurse is Tory councillor's wife

They're not.

I didn't watch the debate, did Sturgeon get a bit of a kick in?

[pacoluna]

They're not.

I didn't watch the debate, did Sturgeon get a bit of a kick in?

Several journalists suggesting they did. SNP denying it.

[Moulin Yarns]

BBC played a blinder protecting Ruth from Tory austerity charges while Nurse plant moaned about devolved issues. Same nurse that was on question time last week

Did you post that on Twitter? Saw the same thing. #nursegate

[makaveli1875]

SNP briefing that nurse is Tory councillor's wife

where are you getting this from ?

[Moulin Yarns]

where are you getting this from ?

All over Twitter

[pacoluna]

where are you getting this from ?

Nick Eardley BBC. As I said before SNP denying this however.

[660]

The nurse has to use food banks while earning £23k a year. Bizarre.

[makaveli1875]

All over Twitter

oh its on twitter , it must be 100% accurate in that case

[Mr Grieves]

What the hell are they debating about devolved matters for.

Recent weeks have shown that - Council elections are about the constitutional debate, Westminster elections are about the NHS and education- so Scottish parliament elections must be about the economy :greengrin

[pacoluna]

oh its on twitter , it must be 100% accurate in that case

BBC journalists via Twitter. I never said it's accurate. In fact I believe it's BS with regards to SNP briefing about it. It was my mistake by quoting him.

[pacoluna]

The nurse has to use food banks while earning £23k a year. Bizarre.

I don't understand this either its why I never criticised may when the topic came up either.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The nurse has to use food banks while earning £23k a year. Bizarre.

According to an interview Andrew Marr did with Theresa May recently, average nurse pay has fallen 14 per cent in real terms since 2010, which is quite a pay cut. I'm not totally surprised by the revelation that some nurses (and other workers) are needing food banks in those circumstances. Once everything else is paid, £23,000 per year before tax isn't a great deal.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The nurse has to use food banks while earning £23k a year. Bizarre.

I had a debate the othet day with someone on this - i think its total BS - i know quite a few nurses and they are not badly off.

Of course, someones personal circumstances might be unusual, but that doesnt mean it applies across everyone or is a systemic problem.

The starting salary rises pretty quickly too i believe.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I had a debate the othet day with someone on this - i think its total BS - i know quite a few nurses and they are not badly off.

Of course, someones personal circumstances might be unusual, but that doesnt mean it applies across everyone or is a systemic problem.

The starting salary rises pretty quickly too i believe.

You think nurses are lying about their circumstances? :confused:

[Swedish hibee]

So a women has pretended to be a nurse on national TV *allegedly* and that is the talking point of the night...
Scotland must be in a better place than I thought if that's all you care about.

[pacoluna]

You think nurses are lying about their circumstances? :confused:

I don't understand how someone on 23g a year could be reliant on food banks.

[Pretty Boy]

You think nurses are lying about their circumstances? :confused:

I think nurses, or anyone earning £23k per year, who have to use foodbanks are a tiny minority. I'm not suggesting the lady in question is lying but I don't believe her circumstances are reflective of her profession as a whole.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I don't understand how someone on 23g a year could be reliant on food banks.

It's isn't a huge amount of money before tax. Then there's all the outgoings - rent/mortgage, council tax, food, heating, lighting, water, clothing, household goods etc etc. £23,000 could quite conceivably leave very little left over at the end of each month for a single person, for example.

[Hibrandenburg]

SNP briefing that nurse is Tory councillor's wife

Bet she's popular amongst her colleagues.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I think nurses, or anyone earning £23k per year, who have to use foodbanks are a tiny minority. I'm not suggesting the lady in question is lying but I don't believe her circumstances are reflective of her profession as a whole.

I don't think it's such a stretch at all. £23,000 gross wouldn't go far in many places, Edinburgh for a start. After income tax and NI, what is that person living on for a year - 18K or so perhaps? £1500 per month before all outgoings. That wouldn't be easy in a modern city, even with no dependents.

[easty]

I don't think it's such a stretch at all. £23,000 gross wouldn't go far in many places, Edinburgh for a start. After income tax and NI, what is that person living on for a year - 18K or so perhaps? £1500 per month before all outgoings. That wouldn't be easy in a modern city, even with no dependents.

You should live where you can afford to live, I'm sure I'd need to use food banks if I lived somewhere that was too expensive for me, with a car I couldn't afford, etc...so £1500 a month is fine if you're living accordingly. I'm not having it that people on £23k a year rely on food banks, that's not to say there aren't those who do, there are always going to be special cases, but it's going to be very rare.

[660]

I'm not sure what's she's spending £23k a year on that's more important than food to the point where she has to use food banks. Seems ludicrous no matter where you live.

[Hibernia&Alba]

You should live where you can afford to live, I'm sure I'd need to use food banks if I lived somewhere that was too expensive for me, with a car I couldn't afford, etc...so £1500 a month is fine if you're living accordingly. I'm not having it that people on £23k a year rely on food banks, that's not to say there are those who do, there are always going to be special cases, but it's going to be very rare.

Nurses will live where the hospitals are, which is usually the big cities. It's expensive to live in many cities now, Edinburgh most definitely, for example. I don't think it's fanciful to suggest more than just a tiny few of full time workers in various roles find themselves needing food banks to get by.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I'm not sure what's she's spending £23k a year on that's more important than food to the point where she has to use food banks. Seems ludicrous no matter where you live.

I would imagine the fixed costs that must be paid no matter what - rent, council tax, energy, water and the like.

[pacoluna]

Nurses will live where the hospitals are, which is usually the big cities. It's expensive to live in many cities now, Edinburgh most definitely, for example. I don't think it's fanciful to suggest more than just a tiny few of full time workers in various roles find themselves needing food banks to get by.

This particular nurses daughter goes to George Heriots. But she relies on food banks. I'm sorry I don't believe it for a minute.

[Hibernia&Alba]

This particular nurses daughter goes to George Heriots. But she relies on food banks. I'm sorry I don't believe it for a minute.

I don't know about individual cases, but I can see it being much more common than we think.

[easty]

Nurses will live where the hospitals are, which is usually the big cities. It's expensive to live in many cities now, Edinburgh most definitely, for example. I don't think it's fanciful to suggest more than just a tiny few of full time workers in various roles find themselves needing food banks to get by.

You can live in Edinburgh on a salary of £23k no problem at all. You'd no be living in Morningside or Stockbridge, but neither do most of the people in the city.

[Pretty Boy]

I don't think it's such a stretch at all. £23,000 gross wouldn't go far in many places, Edinburgh for a start. After income tax and NI, what is that person living on for a year - 18K or so perhaps? £1500 per month before all outgoings. That wouldn't be easy in a modern city, even with no dependents.

If it really is as widespread as you suggest what do we do to tackle it? Based on a 40 hour week even a wage of £11 per hour wouldn't give you a £23K gross salary.

Is there grounds to set a living wage at £12 an hour which takes you over the threshold? I'd suggest that could be problematic for small business and institutions like the NHS alike.

[Hibernia&Alba]

If it really is as widespread as you suggest what do we do to tackle it? Based on a 40 hour week even a wage of £11 per hour wouldn't give you a £23K gross salary.

Is there grounds to set a living wage at £12 an hour which takes you over the threshold? I'd suggest that could be problematic for small business and institutions like the NHS alike.

Remove the ceiling on National Insurance contributions, and, if necessary, increase NI contributions and other taxes in a progressive manner in general for properly rewarded NHS staff. A real terms pay cut of 14% over seven years really isn't on for people doing some of the most valuable jobs in the country.:agree:

[Pretty Boy]

You can live in Edinburgh on a salary of £23k no problem at all. You'd no be living in Morningside or Stockbridge, but neither do most of the people in the city.

Indeed.

I lived in a one bedroom flat in a pretty decent area on my own before moving in with my girlfriend. I was earning a hell of a lot less than £23K per year at the time as well (even allowing for inflation and the likes) and lived comfortably.

I'm not unsympathetic to those who have circumstances that see them relying on foodbanks but a single person with no dependents managing their income correctly shouldn't fall into that category whether that's in Edinburgh or otherwise.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

You think nurses are lying about their circumstances? :confused:

How do you get that?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

You should live where you can afford to live, I'm sure I'd need to use food banks if I lived somewhere that was too expensive for me, with a car I couldn't afford, etc...so £1500 a month is fine if you're living accordingly. I'm not having it that people on £23k a year rely on food banks, that's not to say there aren't those who do, there are always going to be special cases, but it's going to be very rare.

A disposable income of 1500 is now classed as struggling is it? No wonder poverty is on the rise...

[The_Exile]

My food budget is £100 a month and I feel I eat like a king tbh. You don't have to spend a great deal of cash on food to eat really well.

[snooky]

BBC played a blinder protecting Ruth from Tory austerity charges while Nurse plant moaned about devolved issues. Same nurse that was on question time last week

Never saw the debate but heard that a nurse on the prog was the daughter of a Conservative Councillor.
That's why I don't watch this politically-manipulated propaganda crap.
The BBC has no credibility left. I think I'd be better getting my news from Fox. :rolleyes:

[lord bunberry]

Fafrge was a libertarian Nuttal's turned UKIP into the BNP and will lose the working class vote as a result.
He will lose the voters that Farage gained, but he has legitimised racism and Farage has to answer for that.

[lord bunberry]

I think nurses, or anyone earning £23k per year, who have to use foodbanks are a tiny minority. I'm not suggesting the lady in question is lying but I don't believe her circumstances are reflective of her profession as a whole.
I will go further. I think that anyone earning £23k a year should not be using foodbanks. We all have to deal with the high cost of living in Edinburgh, but I bet you the vast majority of people posting on here don't earn £23k and even less visit foodbanks. For **** sake no wonder we struggle to elect a government of the people when the people expect to be living in luxury no matter their circumstances.

[snooky]

I will go further. I think that anyone earning £23k a year should not be using foodbanks. We all have to deal with the high cost of living in Edinburgh, but I bet you the vast majority of people posting on here don't earn £23k and even less visit foodbanks. For **** sake no wonder we struggle to elect a government of the people when the people expect to be living in luxury no matter their circumstances.
I donated something to the food bank last week and I'm living on a damned sight less than £23k. I think I'll pay the lady a visit and stay for tea and eat all the food I bought her.

[High-On-Hibs]

It's the Sun.... so apologies in advance (they're the only news outlet who seems to have picked up on the story :rolleyes:)

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1039924/edinburgh-nurse-election-debate-food-banks-online-snaps-s****y-meals-and-champagne
(https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1039924/edinburgh-nurse-election-debate-food-banks-online-snaps-s****y-meals-and-champagne)
Even they're calling the foodbank claim outrageous. :dizzy:

[High-On-Hibs]

Should be pointed out that she isn't an NHS nurse either, she works for BUPA. It was in her facebook occupation description until she decided to private everything on her page. Her daughter also went to George Heriot's. Which costs over 11.5K PA at senior/secondary level...

http://oi65.tinypic.com/2i9nk9.jpg
http://www.george-heriots.com/admissions/financial/fees

[Moulin Yarns]

It's the Sun.... so apologies in advance (they're the only news outlet who seems to have picked up on the story :rolleyes:)

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1039924/edinburgh-nurse-election-debate-food-banks-online-snaps-s****y-meals-and-champagne
(https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1039924/edinburgh-nurse-election-debate-food-banks-online-snaps-s****y-meals-and-champagne)
Even they're calling the foodbank claim outrageous. :dizzy:

To save people looking. the Sun has photographs of Claire Austin eating at The Plaza Hotel, New York and other photographs of her eating in nice restaurants and of her food, all taken from her own facebook page. Also, when you look at who she follows on Twitter, it includes a lot of food and drink companies, not what I would expect from someone who relies on foodbanks, a bit of a strange one, IMO.


Elsewhere on Facebook.


Claire Austin is the "Food Bank Nurse" who lied on the Leaders debate tonight. Her father is a Tory Councillor. She lives in Stockbridge, who owns a fab convertible car - her daughter went to the George Herriot private school, she has three employers ( she's an agency nurse making a bomb) loves rose wine and is looking for a husband? Food banks- aye right!

And her LinkedIn profile.


"I work in busy A&E Departments treating immediate resus patients, medical & surgical emergency admissions, all levels of emergency trauma and paediatrics, to name a few.
You name it we see it!
I began my nursing career at RIDU - The Regional Infectious Disease Unit in Edinburgh working in a multitude of area's including BBV's, immunosuppresed or compromised and immunodeficient patients, travel clinic patients and return travellers just to name a few. I then spent 2 years working for the NHS Lothian Staff Bank gaining experience in all areas; Medical & Surgical Admission Units, Medical & Surgical Wards, Gynae, DCN, Ortho, , MOE, Rehab and A&E.
I now work predominantly in A&E although as I work for three employers I can be sent to any area that needs speciality staff urgently.
I also travel: the small island of Benbecula to help run a small hospital servicing the Outer Hebrides, Jersey & Guernsey and track side emergency nursing at the TT Races on the Isle of Man.
My passion is my job and my job is to care for people"

Don't you love the internet?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I almost feel sorry for her, almost!

Its where i feel sorry for politicians, they are given thesr completely unverifiable personal stories to counter (impossible without knowing circumstances) and are then clobbered with them, to which they are defenceless. Very unfair, likewise the guy with aspbergers making some unfocussed rant about amazon and his disability payments.

BBC really should be doing better.

[One Day Soon]

I see that Joanna Cherry QC - she was the SNP MP for Edinburgh South West - put out a public apology on twitter last night:

"Sorry I was wrong about twitter rumours. Entirely right that your voice is heard."

What did she say or do that required an apology? Must've been quite something if a QC was worried enough to want to get an apology on the record.

[JimBHibees]

What sort of sad sack would go on debates and blatantly lie. BBC should be vetting who they give access to on these shows they also seemed quite chuffed with themselves afterwards with the audience the stars. :rolleyes:

[lucky]

Surely the point to be addressed is low pay in the NHS and the fact the SNP voted against breaking the 1% pay level. It's seems shooting the messenger is more important that the message. If the nurse has had some good holidays and eaten out in restaurants that does not takeaway from the 1% pay rises that have been imposed on NHS staff. She may also have had problems that forced to use food banks in the past.

[Slavers]

[QUOTE=One Day Soon;5049524]I see that Joanna Cherry QC


It's is in response to the SNP smearing of the nurse last night.

[JimBHibees]

Surely the point to be addressed is low pay in the NHS and the fact the SNP voted against breaking the 1% pay level. It's seems shooting the messenger is more important that the message. If the nurse has had some good holidays and eaten out in restaurants that does not takeaway from the 1% pay rises that have been imposed on NHS staff. She may also have had problems that forced to use food banks in the past.

Nurses in Scotland get paid more than nurses in the rest of the UK get paid. She was a total plant and a liar. There is not a chance on this earth that she has ever used a food bank. BBC have a bit of a rep for this sort of thing allowing apparently ordinary members of the public to ask questions only to find out later they aren't really as ordinary as has been made out usually with links to other parties. Simply not good enough.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Surely the point to be addressed is low pay in the NHS and the fact the SNP voted against breaking the 1% pay level. It's seems shooting the messenger is more important that the message. If the nurse has had some good holidays and eaten out in restaurants that does not takeaway from the 1% pay rises that have been imposed on NHS staff. She may also have had problems that forced to use food banks in the past.

You are right, but the whole nurses need food banks always spunded like BS, and it does affect the message if its completr tosh.

I always thought food banks were for people in crisis, struggling to feed themselves.

Not somebody who cannot manage a very respectable salary.

Maybe nurses should be paid more, thats anothet debate. But making things up and using anecdotal stories is rubbish politics. Same when the woman with learning difficulties accosted May in the street - its total cringe.

[Pretty Boy]

Surely the point to be addressed is low pay in the NHS and the fact the SNP voted against breaking the 1% pay level. It's seems shooting the messenger is more important that the message. If the nurse has had some good holidays and eaten out in restaurants that does not takeaway from the 1% pay rises that have been imposed on NHS staff. She may also have had problems that forced to use food banks in the past.

Agree to an extent. I argued last week the Tories and SNP voting against scrapping the 1% pay rise cap was poor, the argument nurses get paid more here than elsewhere is irrelevant imo. Holyrood doesn't control pay in England and Wales, it controls here and should address the issue on that basis alone.

However the implication last night was that the lady in question was in such a desperate situation that she had to use foodbanks to get by, it was also presented in such a way that suggested this wasn't uncommon amongst nurses. I find that very hard to believe and making a point in such a way calls the integrity of the whole debate into question imo.

[pacoluna]

What sort of sad sack would go on debates and blatantly lie. BBC should be vetting who they give access to on these shows they also seemed quite chuffed with themselves afterwards with the audience the stars. :rolleyes:
also said nurses were going on strike in scotland - a blatant lie. I want to know if she was acting alone. But no we should just all sit in our box and leave it to the BBC.

[marinello59]

Surely the point to be addressed is low pay in the NHS and the fact the SNP voted against breaking the 1% pay level. It's seems shooting the messenger is more important that the message. If the nurse has had some good holidays and eaten out in restaurants that does not takeaway from the 1% pay rises that have been imposed on NHS staff. She may also have had problems that forced to use food banks in the past.

Spot on. The real story is that when confronted by what she had to assume was a genuine complaint she dealt with the actual issue extremely well. That's not the story that her supporters were interested in though so the witch hunt started with the initial focus being on why somebody on £23k would need a food bank. I guess they have never had to deal with truamas in their lives such as divorce, bereavement, illness and the attendant problems with debt that can bring,. No, the default postion of the SNP supporters is to assume that a person on a salary that isn't spectacular by any means must have brought those problems on themselves. Sadly they are making exactly the same argument that several senior Tories have made when questioning the need for food banks to exist at all
I have no idea if she was genuine or not. Joanna Cherry felt the need to apologise for something she said but that really doesn't prove anything either. It's a pity though that what was Nicola Sturgeon's best moment won't be talked about by her supporters at all.

[pontius pilate]

I'm sure I read that nurses have been known to use foodbanks wether that was up here or in England is irrelevant the fact that nurses have not had a decent pay rise is a disgrace. Secondly I'm suprised that nobody has called out the two teachers who also made Ms sturgeon squirm about failing education in Scotland. Again I'm sure I read the average slary was 26,500 per year so anything below that is relative poverty and not absolute poverty which is self explanatory really

[pacoluna]

Spot on. The real story is that when confronted by what she had to assume was a genuine complaint she dealt with the actual issue extremely well. That's not the story that her supporters were interested in though so the witch hunt started with the initial focus being on why somebody on £23k would need a food bank. I guess they have never had to deal with truamas in their lives such as divorce, bereavement, illness and the attendant problems with debt that can bring,. No, the default postion of the SNP supporters is to assume that a person on a salary that isn't spectacular by any means must have brought those problems on themselves. Sadly they are making exactly the same argument that several senior Tories have made when questioning the need for food banks to exist at all
I have no idea if she was genuine or not. Joanna Cherry felt the need to apologise for something she said but that really doesn't prove anything either. It's a pity though that what was Nicola Sturgeon's best moment won't be talked about by her supporters at all.

How does someone being in debt, having personal trauma etc support the argument that someone on 23g a year should be better paid?:confused:

These are two separate discussion points. One is personal the other is a topic that should be discussed with out trying to politically score points. This is why I am questioning the BBC.

[marinello59]

How does someone being in debt, having personal trauma etc support the argument that someone on 23g a year should be better paid?:confused:



These are two separate discussion points. One is personal the other is a topic that should be discussed with out trying to politically score points. This is why I am questioning the BBC.

Looks like every single one of our politicians should keep their mouths shut around you then. :greengrin

[G B Young]

It's the Sun.... so apologies in advance (they're the only news outlet who seems to have picked up on the story :rolleyes:)

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1039924/edinburgh-nurse-election-debate-food-banks-online-snaps-s****y-meals-and-champagne
(https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1039924/edinburgh-nurse-election-debate-food-banks-online-snaps-s****y-meals-and-champagne)
Even they're calling the foodbank claim outrageous. :dizzy:

The reason other media outlets haven't picked up on it is because it's not true:

Nick Eardley
SNP furiously back peddling now - they say they don't know if it's a Tory cllr's relative
9:26 PM - 21 May 2017 (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/866389718187081729) · Edinburgh, Scotland (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A7ae9e2f2ff7a87cd)








Follow (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc)
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/822096963936075777/p7jfEsm6_normal.jpgNick Eardley
✔@nickeardleybbc (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc)

BBC confirm nurse not married to Tory councillor
9:38 PM - 21 May 2017 (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/866392771103510528)

[snooky]

Surely the point to be addressed is low pay in the NHS and the fact the SNP voted against breaking the 1% pay level. It's seems shooting the messenger is more important that the message. If the nurse has had some good holidays and eaten out in restaurants that does not takeaway from the 1% pay rises that have been imposed on NHS staff. She may also have had problems that forced to use food banks in the past.
Surely the point to be addressed is blatant lying.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The reason other media outlets haven't picked up on it is because it's not true:

Nick Eardley
SNP furiously back peddling now - they say they don't know if it's a Tory cllr's relative
9:26 PM - 21 May 2017 (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/866389718187081729) · Edinburgh, Scotland (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A7ae9e2f2ff7a87cd)








Follow (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc)
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/822096963936075777/p7jfEsm6_normal.jpgNick Eardley
✔@nickeardleybbc (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc)

BBC confirm nurse not married to Tory councillor
9:38 PM - 21 May 2017 (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/866392771103510528)






Ouch

Cybernats strike again eh...

[marinello59]

Surely the point to be addressed is blatant lying.

Surely it's the relatively low pay of highly trained public sector workers and how we move forward on that.

[pacoluna]

Looks like every single one of our politicians should keep their mouths shut around you then. :greengrin
It's a problem on all sides :agree:. My original question is still a valid one however.

[CropleyWasGod]

The reason other media outlets haven't picked up on it is because it's not true:

Nick Eardley
SNP furiously back peddling now - they say they don't know if it's a Tory cllr's relative
9:26 PM - 21 May 2017 (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/866389718187081729) · Edinburgh, Scotland (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A7ae9e2f2ff7a87cd)








Follow (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc)
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/822096963936075777/p7jfEsm6_normal.jpgNick Eardley
✔@nickeardleybbc (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc)

BBC confirm nurse not married to Tory councillor
9:38 PM - 21 May 2017 (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/866392771103510528)






As much as I detest the Sun, I see nothing in there to say she is married to a Tory councillor.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Ouch

Cybernats strike again eh...

Whether her story adds up or not she was still a plant. It's just a pity that she wasn't asked how she came to be dependent on food banks, given her salary.

[Speedy]

Spot on. The real story is that when confronted by what she had to assume was a genuine complaint she dealt with the actual issue extremely well. That's not the story that her supporters were interested in though so the witch hunt started with the initial focus being on why somebody on £23k would need a food bank. I guess they have never had to deal with truamas in their lives such as divorce, bereavement, illness and the attendant problems with debt that can bring,. No, the default postion of the SNP supporters is to assume that a person on a salary that isn't spectacular by any means must have brought those problems on themselves. Sadly they are making exactly the same argument that several senior Tories have made when questioning the need for food banks to exist at all
I have no idea if she was genuine or not. Joanna Cherry felt the need to apologise for something she said but that really doesn't prove anything either. It's a pity though that what was Nicola Sturgeon's best moment won't be talked about by her supporters at all.

I wouldn't say that was true at all.

[G B Young]

Don't you love the internet?

As Mark Twain wrote more than 100 years ago "a lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes".

The SNP smearing of the nurse went into immediate overdrive as soon as the previously teflon Sturgeon started to struggle. Joanna Cherry's hasty apology this morning won't stop this 'story' being given credence.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/nhs-nurse-confronted-nicola-sturgeon-tv-debate-smeared-snp/

[G B Young]

Whether her story adds up or not she was still a plant. It's just a pity that she wasn't asked how she came to be dependent on food banks, given her salary.

What evidence is there that she was 'a plant'??

[marinello59]

I wouldn't say that was true at all.

Look at the post above yours. :greengrin

[Slavers]

The reason other media outlets haven't picked up on it is because it's not true:

Nick Eardley
SNP furiously back peddling now - they say they don't know if it's a Tory cllr's relative
9:26 PM - 21 May 2017 (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/866389718187081729) · Edinburgh, Scotland (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A7ae9e2f2ff7a87cd)




Follow (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc)
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/822096963936075777/p7jfEsm6_normal.jpgNick Eardley
✔@nickeardleybbc (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc)

BBC confirm nurse not married to Tory councillor
9:38 PM - 21 May 2017 (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/866392771103510528)






Absolutely shocking that the SNP once again are resorting to smearing tactics when challenged.

[Slavers]

What evidence is there that she was 'a plant'??

There is none!

[Speedy]

Look at the post above yours. :greengrin

Still doesn't make it the default position of SNP supporters. Nor does it say she brought it on herself.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Whether her story adds up or not she was still a plant. It's just a pity that she wasn't asked how she came to be dependent on food banks, given her salary.

How do you know this?

Who 'planted' her.

At least the nats wont have this problem tonorrow. Their manifesto is being launched to an 'invited' audience.

[G B Young]

Spot on. The real story is that when confronted by what she had to assume was a genuine complaint she dealt with the actual issue extremely well. That's not the story that her supporters were interested in though so the witch hunt started with the initial focus being on why somebody on £23k would need a food bank. I guess they have never had to deal with truamas in their lives such as divorce, bereavement, illness and the attendant problems with debt that can bring,. No, the default postion of the SNP supporters is to assume that a person on a salary that isn't spectacular by any means must have brought those problems on themselves. Sadly they are making exactly the same argument that several senior Tories have made when questioning the need for food banks to exist at all
I have no idea if she was genuine or not. Joanna Cherry felt the need to apologise for something she said but that really doesn't prove anything either. It's a pity though that what was Nicola Sturgeon's best moment won't be talked about by her supporters at all.

Judging by the hefty applause for the nurse compared to Sturgeon over the issue I wouldn't agree. The main crutch of her response seemed to be that her sister works for the NHS. No real answers.

I say that having only watched the incident this morning so I may have missed some earlier or later responses from Sturgeon. Personally I hate the leaders debates. The US Presidential ones were unwatchable, while the ones between Salmond and Darling in 2014 turned into nothing more than shouting matches with Salmond coming across as little more than a pompous bully. I think they did more harm to the nationalist cause than anything else.

I don't actually blame Corbyn and May for steering clear of these over hpyed programmes which rarely tell us anything we didn't already know.

[marinello59]

Still doesn't make it the default position of SNP supporters. Nor does it say she brought it on herself.


It does question why, given her salary she would be dependent on food banks. Given that the assumption last night was that she was on just under £23k when do we stop 'questioning' why people are visiting food banks? £20k? £15k?

[pacoluna]

Surely the point to be addressed is low pay in the NHS and the fact the SNP voted against breaking the 1% pay level. It's seems shooting the messenger is more important that the message. If the nurse has had some good holidays and eaten out in restaurants that does not takeaway from the 1% pay rises that have been imposed on NHS staff. She may also have had problems that forced to use food banks in the past.

ScotGov can't pay their nurses any more. Its a Uk national negotiated settlement. Unions will only negotiate on Uk wide Basis. NHS in scotland is alone in maintaining annual pay increment. This particular nurse claimed no pay rise in 8 year - another blatant lie.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

It does question why, given her salary she would be dependent on food banks. Given that the assumption last night was that she was on just under £23k when do we stop 'questioning' why people are visiting food banks? £20k? £15k?

I think 23k is just a starting salary. By the age of that woman, she would be on more than 23k.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

ScotGov can't pay their nurses any more. Its a Uk national negotiated settlement. Unions will only negotiate on Uk wide Basis. NHS in scotland is alone in maintaining annual pay increment. This particular nurse claimed no pay rise in 8 year - another blatant lie.

This is a funny one, because the way nurses pay works, they get incremental rises periodically, so 8 years without a rise does sound unlikely, unless she means in real terms.

Still funny watching the cybernats' mask slip though...

[marinello59]

I think 23k is just a starting salary. By the age of that woman, she would be on more than 23k.

Probably. But the commonly quoted figure last night as this all erupted on twitter was £23K.

[Pretty Boy]

It does question why, given her salary she would be dependent on food banks. Given that the assumption last night was that she was on just under £23k when do we stop 'questioning' why people are visiting food banks? £20k? £15k?

I think it's valid to question how widespread foodbank use is amongst people on such a salary, there was a heavy implication last night that it was common. I'd be interested to see if there is any evidence to back that up.

£23K is not spectacular but it's far from a pittance either. My work is an accredited living wage employer and a few of the folk in our aftersales office earn considerably less than that, 2 of the girls are single and live alone and are talking about their upcoming 2 weeks in Ibiza rather than worrying about putting food on the table. I'm not suggesting for a second there aren't circumstances in which someone earning that salary can't end up in a desperate situation but I'd hazard a guess it's the exception rather than the rule.

[Moulin Yarns]

ScotGov can't pay their nurses any more. Its a Uk national negotiated settlement. Unions will only negotiate on Uk wide Basis. NHS in scotland is alone in maintaining annual pay increment. This particular nurse claimed no pay rise in 8 year - another blatant lie.

According to her LinkedIn profile she has been in nursing for less than 8 years.

[marinello59]

I think it's valid to question how widespread foodbank use is amongst people on such a salary, there was a heavy implication last night that it was common. I'd be interested to see if there is any evidence to back that up.

£23K is not spectacular but it's far from a pittance either. My work is an accredited living wage employer and a few of the folk in our aftersales office earn considerably less than that, 2 of the girls are single and live alone and are talking about their upcoming 2 weeks in Ibiza rather than worrying about putting food on the table. I'm not suggesting for a second there aren't circumstances in which someone earning that salary can't end up in a desperate situation but I'd hazard a guess it's the exception rather than the rule.

Booth SNP and Labour frequently mention that there are large numbers of working families dependent on foodbanks in Scotland so the implication (and I think it's much more than that) is that their use is widespread amongst salaried people. We knew nothing of this woman's personal circumstances when this broke out last night other than the quoted salary figure of £23k. A couple of kids and a mortgage would eat in to that sort of figure quite easily.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think 23k is just a starting salary. By the age of that woman, she would be on more than 23k.

A lot depends on her grade, that is the middle of grade 4 I think. And she only went into nursing in 2010.

Starting salary for the lowest grade is around 16k

[stoneyburn hibs]

What evidence is there that she was 'a plant'??

Course I can't prove anything, however she was given an awful lot of airtime...... twice.

[Speedy]

I think it's valid to question how widespread foodbank use is amongst people on such a salary, there was a heavy implication last night that it was common. I'd be interested to see if there is any evidence to back that up.

£23K is not spectacular but it's far from a pittance either. My work is an accredited living wage employer and a few of the folk in our aftersales office earn considerably less than that, 2 of the girls are single and live alone and are talking about their upcoming 2 weeks in Ibiza rather than worrying about putting food on the table. I'm not suggesting for a second there aren't circumstances in which someone earning that salary can't end up in a desperate situation but I'd hazard a guess it's the exception rather than the rule.


It does question why, given her salary she would be dependent on food banks. Given that the assumption last night was that she was on just under £23k when do we stop 'questioning' why people are visiting food banks? £20k? £15k?

I would agree with Pretty Boy. It's a relevant question if the example is to be any use. Otherwise there's no real indication if it is an outlier or a widespread problem.

If the living wage (c£17k pa) is to believed (granted that's a different debate) then it looks more like an outlier.

[marinello59]

I would agree with Pretty Boy. It's a relevant question if the example is to be any use. Otherwise there's no real indication if it is an outlier or a widespread problem.

If the living wage (c£17k pa) is to believed (granted that's a different debate) then it looks more like an outlier.

That's a fair point.
The tone of the whole thing last night when it initially broke just felt poor to me, it still does. If she had been blaming the Tory Goverment for her predicament I rather suspect we wouldn't have been having this conversation.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

That's a fair point.
The tone of the whole thing last night when it initially broke just felt poor to me, it still does. If she had been blaming the Tory Goverment for her predicament I rather suspect we wouldn't have been having this conversation.

This is undoubtedly true. And in fact many on here were lambasting May last week when the same issue was brought up to her. Not that i am suggesting some hypocrisy among SNP suppoeters on these boards.

Nurses are not paid poverty wages. Of course that doesnt mean that there isnt a legitimate debate about whether they should be paid more to be had, but citing, or implying as Pretry Boy says, that this is widespread among nurses is categorically not true.

There may well be some nurses that habe used foodbanks, but i doubt the problem that caused them to need to was their salary, as opposed to other factors in their lives which are nothing to do with May, Sturgeon or NHSScotland.

[snooky]

Surely it's the relatively low pay of highly trained public sector workers and how we move forward on that.

The point here is credibility of the televised debate. If the person in the audience is proved to be a plant or someone who is (let's use the word) 'misleading', then the integrity of the whole programme is out the window no matter what the issue or which party they are trying to promote.
This is not the first time a debating programme on BBC has had an audience member promoted as Jo/Jane Bloggs but in reality they are not quite what they say they are. (Oddly enough, attacking the same party.)

There's so many pants on fire these days in these debates, I'm surprised it's not a safety issue.

(Note: I didn't say anything about the horse).

[easty]

This is undoubtedly true. And in fact many on here were lambasting May last week when the same issue was brought up to her. Not that i am suggesting some hypocrisy among SNP suppoeters on these boards.

Nurses are not paid poverty wages. Of course that doesnt mean that there isnt a legitimate debate about whether they should be paid more to be had, but citing, or implying as Pretry Boy says, that this is widespread among nurses is categorically not true.

There may well be some nurses that habe used foodbanks, but i doubt the problem that caused them to need to was their salary, as opposed to other factors in their lives which are nothing to do with May, Sturgeon or NHSScotland.

:agree:

[G B Young]

The point here is credibility of the televised debate. If the person in the audience is proved to be a plant or someone who is (let's use the word) 'misleading', then the integrity of the whole programme is out the window no matter what the issue or which party they are trying to promote.
This is not the first time a debating programme on BBC has had an audience member promoted as Jo/Jane Bloggs but in reality they are not quite what they say they are. (Oddly enough, attacking the same party.)

Again, what proof is there that she was a plant? None whatsoever as far as I can see.

The SNP were the ones trying to portray the nurse as not what she said she was so it's their integrity which is in question, having jumped on unfounded twitter gossip to try and discredit her.

Essentially they were aware that she was landing some telling blows on Sturgeon and would likely make headline news this morning so they went straight into smear mode, only to have to back down this morning and make a direct apology to the nurse.

Cherry is a QC, from whom you'd expect more professionalism when checking their 'facts'.

Joanna Cherry QC
@joannacherry
Sorry I was wrong about twitter rumours. Entirely right that your voice is heard. https://twitter.com/shonarobison/status/866390822467645440 … (https://t.co/tr1j98tlJG)
10:22 PM - 21 May 2017 (https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/866403766593081344) · Edinburgh, Scotland (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A7ae9e2f2ff7a87cd)

[Bristolhibby]

This is undoubtedly true. And in fact many on here were lambasting May last week when the same issue was brought up to her. Not that i am suggesting some hypocrisy among SNP suppoeters on these boards.

Nurses are not paid poverty wages. Of course that doesnt mean that there isnt a legitimate debate about whether they should be paid more to be had, but citing, or implying as Pretry Boy says, that this is widespread among nurses is categorically not true.

There may well be some nurses that habe used foodbanks, but i doubt the problem that caused them to need to was their salary, as opposed to other factors in their lives which are nothing to do with May, Sturgeon or NHSScotland.

This. Earning £23k a year says to me you have no need for food banks.

Now if you are a single Dad, with dependents, a gambling and drink problem and have heavy credit card debts, then yes you could end up using food banks. But that's not because you can't live off £23k a year. It's your circumstances that has meant that you can't.

However that is an exception and personal circumstances.

Your average Jane/Joe nurse will not be going to food banks.

J

[Bristolhibby]

And quite frankly a Bupa nurse with kids at private school, who holidays in New York and dines out regularly is ripping the piss if she is taking food from a food bank.

J

[easty]

Again, what proof is there that she was a plant? None whatsoever as far as I can see.

The SNP were the ones trying to portray the nurse as not what she said she was so it's their integrity which is in question, having jumped on unfounded twitter gossip to try and discredit her.

Essentially they were aware that she was landing some telling blows on Sturgeon and would likely make headline news this morning so they went straight into smear mode, only to have to back down this morning and make a direct apology to the nurse.

Cherry is a QC, from whom you'd expect more professionalism when checking their 'facts'.

Joanna Cherry QC
@joannacherry
Sorry I was wrong about twitter rumours. Entirely right that your voice is heard. https://twitter.com/shonarobison/status/866390822467645440 … (https://t.co/tr1j98tlJG)
10:22 PM - 21 May 2017 (https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/866403766593081344) · Edinburgh, Scotland (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A7ae9e2f2ff7a87cd)




What "telling blows" was she landing on Sturgeon?

[JimBHibees]

Again, what proof is there that she was a plant? None whatsoever as far as I can see.

The SNP were the ones trying to portray the nurse as not what she said she was so it's their integrity which is in question, having jumped on unfounded twitter gossip to try and discredit her.

Essentially they were aware that she was landing some telling blows on Sturgeon and would likely make headline news this morning so they went straight into smear mode, only to have to back down this morning and make a direct apology to the nurse.

Cherry is a QC, from whom you'd expect more professionalism when checking their 'facts'.

Joanna Cherry QC
@joannacherry
Sorry I was wrong about twitter rumours. Entirely right that your voice is heard. https://twitter.com/shonarobison/status/866390822467645440 … (https://t.co/tr1j98tlJG)
10:22 PM - 21 May 2017 (https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/866403766593081344) · Edinburgh, Scotland (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A7ae9e2f2ff7a87cd)



Except she wasn't landing telling blows she was clearly lying and her background is rightly being questioned as is the credibility of the broadcaster not for the first time.

[G B Young]

Except she wasn't landing telling blows she was clearly lying and her background is rightly being questioned as is the credibility of the broadcaster not for the first time.

Depends how much you believe what the Sun has to say I guess. What lies did she tell? Jumping on a unsubstantiated twitter rumour and presenting it as 'fact' is the only 'lie' I've seen to have emerged from the debate. And of course the damage is now done, with the nurse taking a heap of unjustified flak:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39997155

[CropleyWasGod]

Depends how much you believe what the Sun has to say I guess. What lies did she tell? Jumping on a unsubstantiated twitter rumour and presenting it as 'fact' is the only 'lie' I've seen to have emerged from the debate. And of course the damage is now done, with the nurse taking a heap of unjustified flak:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39997155

What is telling is that she hasn't denied any of the Sun story.

On her Facebook page, she was saying that she was "speaking on behalf of all nurses". She has now removed that post.

[Mon Dieu4]

She had a valid point to make but I think she saw it as a chance to stick it to NS, in this day in age where everything you do is available online if you tell porkies then you will be found out

[High-On-Hibs]

I'm sure I read that nurses have been known to use foodbanks wether that was up here or in England is irrelevant the fact that nurses have not had a decent pay rise is a disgrace. Secondly I'm suprised that nobody has called out the two teachers who also made Ms sturgeon squirm about failing education in Scotland. Again I'm sure I read the average slary was 26,500 per year so anything below that is relative poverty and not absolute poverty which is self explanatory really

The average salary in Scotland is 23K per year. So if what you say is true, over half of the Scottish population are living in relative poverty at least and as such are relying on foodbanks to make ends meet.

It's an absolute nonsense tbh.

[High-On-Hibs]

The reason other media outlets haven't picked up on it is because it's not true:

Nick Eardley
SNP furiously back peddling now - they say they don't know if it's a Tory cllr's relative
9:26 PM - 21 May 2017 (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/866389718187081729) · Edinburgh, Scotland (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A7ae9e2f2ff7a87cd)




Follow (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc)
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/822096963936075777/p7jfEsm6_normal.jpgNick Eardley
✔@nickeardleybbc (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc)

BBC confirm nurse not married to Tory councillor
9:38 PM - 21 May 2017 (https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/866392771103510528)






It's not true about her having a tory councilor relative. Nothing i've said is untrue however.

[makaveli1875]

It's not true about her having a tory councilor relative. Nothing i've said is untrue however.

your stating as a fact that she earns 23k a year , have you seen her payslip to confirm this ?

[High-On-Hibs]

Booth SNP and Labour frequently mention that there are large numbers of working families dependent on foodbanks in Scotland so the implication (and I think it's much more than that) is that their use is widespread amongst salaried people. We knew nothing of this woman's personal circumstances when this broke out last night other than the quoted salary figure of £23k. A couple of kids and a mortgage would eat in to that sort of figure quite easily.

She has one kid who attended one of mose prestige private schools in Scotland. Either she was paying over 11K out of her own salary each year to pay for the admission, or her daughter is well catered for by her father.

[High-On-Hibs]

your stating as a fact that she earns 23k a year , have you seen her payslip to confirm this ?

23K pa is the base rate for a nurse. It's the very least she could earn in that profession. Although i'd suspect she more than likely earns considerably more. Considering that it's not even the NHS that she works for, despite trying to give off that impression.

[High-On-Hibs]

Again, what proof is there that she was a plant? None whatsoever as far as I can see.

The fact that she was on Question Time in Edinburgh just several days earlier and the BBC let her back on again as she didn't get a chance to claim how poor she was the first time...

There were plenty of others who didn't get their questions answered several days ago, who were pretty much told to do one, as their own questions obviously weren't good for the narrative. :aok:

[High-On-Hibs]

Depends how much you believe what the Sun has to say I guess. What lies did she tell? Jumping on a unsubstantiated twitter rumour and presenting it as 'fact' is the only 'lie' I've seen to have emerged from the debate. And of course the damage is now done, with the nurse taking a heap of unjustified flak:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39997155

It's not a "rumour" though. People who obviously knew her, who knew her name and had access to her profile were able to verify quite convincingly that she wasn't a poor nurse relying on foodbank vouchers, but in fact a women with a standard of living that many would envy.

[makaveli1875]

23K pa is the base rate for a nurse. It's the very least she could earn in that profession. Although i'd suspect she more than likely earns considerably more. Considering that it's not even the NHS that she works for, despite trying to give off that impression.

where you getting this 23k from

bottom salary for nurses is £16k . you need to be in band 5 to be getting £23k a year

[High-On-Hibs]

where you getting this 23k from

bottom salary for nurses is £16k . you need to be in band 5 to be getting £23k a year

She is not a trainee nurse though. She is a fully qualified nurse who works for BUPA. (Based on her own facebook profile claims)
Which means in Scotland she will be earning between 23K-28.5K pa assuming that she is only on band 5.

[G B Young]

The fact that she was on Question Time in Edinburgh just several days earlier and the BBC let her back on again as she didn't get a chance to claim how poor she was the first time...

There were plenty of others who didn't get their questions answered several days ago, who were pretty much told to do one, as their own questions obviously weren't good for the narrative. :aok:

How do you know they were 'told to do one'?

[makaveli1875]

She is not a trainee nurse though. She is a fully qualified nurse who works for BUPA. (Based on her own facebook profile claims)
Which means in Scotland she will be earning between 23K-28.5K pa assuming that she is only on band 5.

so you are besmirching the woman on the assumption that you know her paygrade and yearly salary :aok:

[G B Young]

It's not a "rumour" though. People who obviously knew her, who knew her name and had access to her profile were able to verify quite convincingly that she wasn't a poor nurse relying on foodbank vouchers, but in fact a women with a standard of living that many would envy.

And as far as I can see nobody on here actually knows her or anything about her true circumstances. Should we just therefore accept what people who claim to know her accuse her of on social media as 'the truth'?

Seems to me the fact the SNP have been caught out when it came to trying to discredit a punter who dared to take Sturgeon to task has riled a lot of nationalists, who have now adopted a mindset of 'ah, erm, OK so she's not married to a Tory (in fact she's not even married) but hey, she MUST be worthy of abuse simply for criticising the SNP so let's keep digging..."

[High-On-Hibs]

so you are besmirching the woman on the assumption that you know her paygrade and yearly salary :aok:

I'm telling you that I know that her pay is at least 23K a year.

Try getting foodbank vouchers after telling them you earn 23K a year.

[High-On-Hibs]

And as far as I can see nobody on here actually knows her or anything about her true circumstances. Should we just therefore accept what people who claim to know her accuse her of on social media as 'the truth'?

Seems to me the fact the SNP have been caught out when it came to trying to discredit a punter who dared to take Sturgeon to task has riled a lot of nationalists, who have now adopted a mindset of 'ah, erm, OK so she's not married to a Tory (in fact she's not even married) but hey, she MUST be worthy of abuse simply for criticising the SNP so let's keep digging..."

Really, because it seems to me that people are yet again, sticking their heads in the sand. Refusing to accept that she was a clear plant with a clear agenda who was found out to be lying through her teeth about her own circumstances.

The in denial dial is through the roof on this one. :rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

And as far as I can see nobody on here actually knows her or anything about her true circumstances. Should we just therefore accept what people who claim to know her accuse her of on social media as 'the truth'?

Seems to me the fact the SNP have been caught out when it came to trying to discredit a punter who dared to take Sturgeon to task has riled a lot of nationalists, who have now adopted a mindset of 'ah, erm, OK so she's not married to a Tory (in fact she's not even married) but hey, she MUST be worthy of abuse simply for criticising the SNP so let's keep digging..."

Did you read my post about what she said on her own Facebook?

[makaveli1875]

I'm telling you that I know that her pay is at least 23K a year.

Try getting foodbank vouchers after telling them you earn 23K a year.

How do you know what her pay is ? Surely you must have seen her payslip to know this information

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Really, because it seems to me that people are yet again, sticking their heads in the sand. Refusing to accept that she was a clear plant with a clear agenda who was found out to be lying through her teeth about her own circumstances.

The in denial dial is through the roof on this one. :rolleyes:

Someone with a view counter to the SNP doesnt have to be a plant. Youre reverting to your tinfoil hat mode with your paranoia

[Hibernia&Alba]

I didn't watch the debate last night so can't comment on the individual case of the woman in the audience and whether she is lying. But a recent study of the Royal College of Nursing did reveal there are NHS staff relying on food banks to get by; Marr confronted the prime minister with this information just a couple of weeks ago. They aren't all lying, nor is the RCN. This is an issue of seven years of real terms pay cuts in the public sector, which is unsustainable long term. This attitude of 'well, they need to budget better', won't solve it. 4 minutes 50 in. She didn't even attempt to deny it - she can't - but could only say "there are complex reasons why people use food banks". Aye, year on year pay cuts for a start.


https://youtu.be/Ixwq3KJwy54

[One Day Soon]

She has one kid who attended one of mose prestige private schools in Scotland. Either she was paying over 11K out of her own salary each year to pay for the admission, or her daughter is well catered for by her father.


How do you know the kid isn't on a bursary?

Seems to me the cybernat lynch mob on twitter decided to do her in first because she was a threat and then maybe ask questions afterwards.

[snooky]

One thing this thread has shown is that the two sides on Hibsnet are not any closer to finding some common ground (apart from nurses deserve more pay maybe). I wish Scotland was at one politically (whether Unionist or Indy) as we were, more or less, when there was a bona fide Labour Party. At the moment, as with the UK & Brexit, political issues are tearing the country apart.
Not good, and sadly I don't foresee any change in the situation.

[Hibernia&Alba]

One thing this thread has shown is that the two sides on Hibsnet are not any closer to finding some common ground (apart from nurses deserve more pay maybe). I wish Scotland was at one politically (whether Unionist or Indy) as we were, more or less, when there was a bona fide Labour Party. At the moment, as with the UK & Brexit, political issues are tearing the country apart.
Not good, and sadly I don't foresee any change in the situation.

For me, snooky, this is much bigger than independence or not; it's the fundamentals of neoliberal capitalism, which is failing the majority for the benefit of a small minority. We've had forty years of this failing Chicago School experiment, which is certainly tearing our society apart. I firmly believe that the recent era of so called 'anti-establishment' sentiment, including Brexit and Trump, is a consequence of millions of people feeling powerless and exploited in the face of globalisation, privatisation and growing inequality. Market discipline for the poor whilst it's socialism for the rich e.g. the banks. More and more resources going to a tiny few, cuts for those forced to pay to clear up their mess. I'm sick of it all.

Whether Scotland becomes independent or not, we need a radical change of course in society, IMHO.

[Hibrandenburg]

How do you know what her pay is ? Surely you must have seen her payslip to know this information

Nukes wages is well documented and out there in the public domain. What's so hard to understand?

[pacoluna]

How do you know the kid isn't on a bursary?

Seems to me the cybernat lynch mob on twitter decided to do her in first because she was a threat and then maybe ask questions afterwards.

Give it a rest with the cybernat pish.

[Moulin Yarns]

23K pa is the base rate for a nurse. It's the very least she could earn in that profession. Although i'd suspect she more than likely earns considerably more. Considering that it's not even the NHS that she works for, despite trying to give off that impression.

In case here is any doubt. The nurse in question has 7 years experience

https://www.rcn.org.uk/employment-and-pay/nhs-pay-scales-2017-18

[One Day Soon]

Give it a rest with the cybernat pish.


Oh aye? Which bit is pish or do you just not like people to have a different opinion?

[makaveli1875]

Nukes wages is well documented and out there in the public domain. What's so hard to understand?

I find it hard to understand how someone can say with certainty what someone else gets paid

do you know how many hours she works ?
what her paygrade is ?

if not then you cant say 1 way or the other what her take home pay is

[pacoluna]

Oh aye? Which bit is pish or do you just not like people to have a different opinion?

The irony considering your the one grouping us all on twitter as cybernats because we have a different opinion from you. As always on twitter their are roasters from all sides.

[JeMeSouviens]

According to Clare Austin's own Facebook post, she was invited onto the debate to ask her question about the NHS.

There is an issue of (lack of) trust in the BBC from the Yes side of Scottish politics. I think whether or not we can trust the state broadcaster is a fairly important issue?

[Slavers]

It's quite something to see the SNP and their army of Cybernats smear one of our hard working nurses just because she said something they didn't like. Now instead of admitting they were wrong, the cybernats hit squad have now doubled down and now are accusing the nurse of being a plant plus making all sorts of suggestions about her private life.

It's pretty low grade politics from the SNP but not surprising that they react this way when challenged. The SNP went into default mode as soon as the nurse spoke against the SNP government - she was instantly branded a Tory to discredit her points.

[pacoluna]

It's quite something to see the SNP and their army of Cybernats smear one of our hard working nurses just because she said something they didn't like. Now instead of admitting they were wrong, the cybernats hit squad have now doubled down and now are accusing the nurse of being a plant plus making all sorts of suggestions about her private life.

It's pretty low grade politics from the SNP but not surprising that they react this way when challenged. The SNP went into default mode as soon as the nurse spoke against the SNP government - she was instantly branded a Tory to discredit her points.
Yawn

what I didn't like was the blatant lies.

no pay rise in 8 years - false

Nurses in Scotland going on strike - false

forced to use food banks? on 23g or more a year- Really?

She spoke as though she was speaking on behalf of all nurses all over scotland, many have called her out said her view doesn't resonate with theirs, to which she responded she is "disappointed" in them.

[One Day Soon]

The irony considering your the one grouping us all on twitter as cybernats because we have a different opinion from you. As always on twitter their are roasters from all sides.


I've never had and never will have an issue with Nationalists just because they have a different opinion from me. That difference is what makes democracy work.

I haven't grouped you as anything. I am grouping together as a cybernat lynch mob the people on twitter who went after her last night as a mob, firstly deciding she was married to a Tory councillor (which she wasn't) and then looking for anything else to try to smear her with when the first line of defence proved untrue. There certainly are roasters on all sides, no argument from me about that.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It's quite something to see the SNP and their army of Cybernats smear one of our hard working nurses just because she said something they didn't like. Now instead of admitting they were wrong, the cybernats hit squad have now doubled down and now are accusing the nurse of being a plant plus making all sorts of suggestions about her private life.

It's pretty low grade politics from the SNP but not surprising that they react this way when challenged. The SNP went into default mode as soon as the nurse spoke against the SNP government - she was instantly branded a Tory to discredit her points.

Which my point: whether it's a Tory government or an SNP government, how much will things really change, unless we have a re-appraisal of the fundamental basis of the system of neoliberal globalisation itself? We need Chomsky to become a Hibs fan and join this forum :greengrin

[One Day Soon]

For me, snooky, this is much bigger than independence or not; it's the fundamentals of neoliberal capitalism, which is failing the majority for the benefit of a small minority. We've had forty years of this failing Chicago School experiment, which is certainly tearing our society apart. I firmly believe that the recent era of so called 'anti-establishment' sentiment, including Brexit and Trump, is a consequence of millions of people feeling powerless and exploited in the face of globalisation, privatisation and growing inequality. Market discipline for the poor whilst it's socialism for the rich e.g. the banks. More and more resources going to a tiny few, cuts for those forced to pay to clear up their mess. I'm sick of it all.

Whether Scotland becomes independent or not, we need a radical change of course in society, IMHO.


I broadly agree with this. Except that I think globalisation could and should be a wonderful thing. It could and should be capable of spreading wealth, creating opportunity and breaking down national barriers. But the root cause of all our ills is economic, no question about it.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

It's quite something to see the SNP and their army of Cybernats smear one of our hard working nurses just because she said something they didn't like. Now instead of admitting they were wrong, the cybernats hit squad have now doubled down and now are accusing the nurse of being a plant plus making all sorts of suggestions about her private life.

It's pretty low grade politics from the SNP but not surprising that they react this way when challenged. The SNP went into default mode as soon as the nurse spoke against the SNP government - she was instantly branded a Tory to discredit her points.

I think you are right about the cybernat community, but in fairness to the SNP i dont think it is their fault (as a party). At worst, i would say that they tolerate them, as useful idiots.

Its the flip side of the SNPs success though. They do so well because they have a committed, and genuinely enthused bunch of supporters who still have thay unifying, overriding 'big idea' to strive for.

The converse is that such a committed and 'on message' bunch find it difficult to accept that others dont care about indy as much as they do - and so they too often descend to abuse, defamatiob etc.

Its also ironic that it should happen after kez dugdale highlighted the abuse that prominent nationalist blogger wings over scotland had dolled out.

[easty]

It's quite something to see the SNP and their army of Cybernats smear one of our hard working nurses just because she said something they didn't like. Now instead of admitting they were wrong, the cybernats hit squad have now doubled down and now are accusing the nurse of being a plant plus making all sorts of suggestions about her private life.

It's pretty low grade politics from the SNP but not surprising that they react this way when challenged. The SNP went into default mode as soon as the nurse spoke against the SNP government - she was instantly branded a Tory to discredit her points.

Who was it from the SNP that branded the nurse a Tory?

[Moulin Yarns]

Not my favourite source, but (I can't believe I'm saying this) a relatively balanced view on #nursegate


https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-pertinent-questions/

You can read between the lines if you want but he raises some good points

[JeMeSouviens]

It's quite something to see the SNP and their army of Cybernats smear one of our hard working nurses just because she said something they didn't like. Now instead of admitting they were wrong, the cybernats hit squad have now doubled down and now are accusing the nurse of being a plant plus making all sorts of suggestions about her private life.

It's pretty low grade politics from the SNP but not surprising that they react this way when challenged. The SNP went into default mode as soon as the nurse spoke against the SNP government - she was instantly branded a Tory to discredit her points.

The private life stuff is coming from the woman's own social media via the Daily Record and The Sun: hardly sources of cybernattery! :rolleyes:

The implication she was planted from the BBC also comes from the woman herself in a public facebook post.

[G B Young]

Really, because it seems to me that people are yet again, sticking their heads in the sand. Refusing to accept that she was a clear plant with a clear agenda who was found out to be lying through her teeth about her own circumstances.

The in denial dial is through the roof on this one. :rolleyes:

It may 'seem' that way to you, but your opinion doesn't stack up as fact.

I've yet to see any proof that she was a 'clear plant' or that she was 'lying through her teeth', or that the BBC tell potential audience members to 'do one' if they don't fit with the agenda of the programme.

[G B Young]

I've never had and never will have an issue with Nationalists just because they have a different opinion from me. That difference is what makes democracy work.

I haven't grouped you as anything. I am grouping together as a cybernat lynch mob the people on twitter who went after her last night as a mob, firstly deciding she was married to a Tory councillor (which she wasn't) and then looking for anything else to try to smear her with when the first line of defence proved untrue. There certainly are roasters on all sides, no argument from me about that.

Well put.

[ColinNish]

It may 'seem' that way to you, but your opinion doesn't stack up as fact.

I've yet to see any proof that she was a 'clear plant' or that she was 'lying through her teeth', or that the BBC tell potential audience members to 'do one' if they don't fit with the agenda of the programme.

Why was she invited back though? And to ask a question on a devolved issue that has no bearing on the General Election? I know someone who was at the first Question Time she was at - he never got asked back.

[marinello59]

I'm telling you that I know that her pay is at least 23K a year.

Try getting foodbank vouchers after telling them you earn 23K a year.

The guy from the Trussell Trust on Radio Scotland this morning said it would not be surprise to him to see somebody on £23K a year who lived in the centre of Edinburgh using their service. What does he know though? Probably a Tory plant. :greengrin

[Hibernia&Alba]

I think getting hung up about one lady in one audience is to neglect the issue of millions of public sector workers taking pay cuts for seven years; of the growth of food banks to the point where working people need them; of an economic policy that is failing the majority, the poorest especially so. Don't lose sight of the wood for the trees.

[snooky]

What I find unsettling from participent in boths sides of the argument(s) is the blind faith that is put in the media.
I try and listen to each side (with a lot of scepticism, I admit) and try to form an opinion somehere around the middle. If I only read articles in the Telegraph or WoS, I'm sure my perspective would be distorted one way or the other.
I have pals who do this and that fact alone explains why they have a deep resentment to the opposition (whichever one it may be).
As for myself, I am well aware that I am vulnerable to propaganda attacks from all sides and I haven't got much of a firewall. :wink:

[marinello59]

I think getting hung up about one lady in one audience is to neglect the issue of millions of public sector workers taking pay cuts for seven years; of the growth of food banks to the point where working people need them; of an economic policy that is failing the majority, the poorest especially so. Don't lose sight of the wood for the trees.

Exactly.

[G B Young]

Did you read my post about what she said on her own Facebook?

You mean about her claiming to speak on behalf of all nurses? If so, yes I did read it but I don't see how it relates to the fact nobody on here appears to actually know the woman or what the truth of her personal circumstances are.

[easty]

The guy from the Trussell Trust on Radio Scotland this morning said it would not be surprise to him to see somebody on £23K a year who lived in the centre of Edinburgh using their service. What does he know though? Probably a Tory plant. :greengrin

Well to continue the theme of how much of this thread has taken...does the guy from the Trussell Trust have any proof, that he can show us right now, this very second, that it happens? Or is it just his opinion? Has he seen all the pay slips? Does he know exactly what their take home pay is? Where's the evidence?

If you're on £23k and living in Edinburgh, and using food banks, then you need to re-evaluate the way you live your life. That's my opinion, based on the fact that I know plenty people who have managed, and do manage to get by in this city on less money than that.

[pacoluna]

You mean about her claiming to speak on behalf of all nurses? If so, yes I did read it but I don't see how it relates to the fact nobody on here appears to actually know the woman or what the truth of her personal circumstances are.
why was she using her personal circumstances as a platform for debate regarding whether nurses salaries should be capped or not? many nurses disagree or are offended by the assumption that she speaks for all.

[snooky]

I think getting hung up about one lady in one audience is to neglect the issue of millions of public sector workers taking pay cuts for seven years; of the growth of food banks to the point where working people need them; of an economic policy that is failing the majority, the poorest especially so. Don't lose sight of the wood for the trees.
I think your point is valid but you can't have a debate if it's foundation is not on solid ground.
There are so many question marks associated with QT with regards to it's ethics (or lack of). These needs to be addressed before anything can be discussed properly on this form of 'public' forum.

[marinello59]

Well to continue the theme of how much of this thread has taken...does the guy from the Trussell Trust have any proof, that he can show us right now, this very second, that it happens? Or is it just his opinion? Has he seen all the pay slips? Does he know exactly what their take home pay is? Where's the evidence?

If you're on £23k and living in Edinburgh, and using food banks, then you need to re-evaluate the way you live your life. That's my opinion, based on the fact that I know plenty people who have managed, and do manage to get by in this city on less money than that.

Like I said , what does he know? Bloody do-gooder. Let's burn the profligate witch.
Enough of this for me, lets get back to normal. Who is starting the next thread about how Scots are much more caring and less judgemental than our Southern neighbours?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I find foodbanks a curious phenomenon, and i admit i dont know much about them, so these are genuine questions -

How does somebody go about using one?

Do the people who promote them have a vested interest in doing so?

How much of the phenomenon is a 'if you build it, they will come?' - if you give something out for free that otherwise costs money, why wouldnt people use it?

[marinello59]

why was she using her personal circumstances as a platform for debate regarding whether nurses salaries should be capped or not?

Maybe because she is a member of the public and we all relate the consequences of what our politicians do to our own personal circumstances. Sometimes we blame the wrong people and sometimes we don't accept our own share of the blame. :dunno:

[CropleyWasGod]

You mean about her claiming to speak on behalf of all nurses? If so, yes I did read it but I don't see how it relates to the fact nobody on here appears to actually know the woman or what the truth of her personal circumstances are.

My point is that, in all the stances taken on here, it's the only source than can be taken as authoritative. She is the only person who knows the truth; everything else is conjecture and agenda-led speculation.

As I said, she claimed to be speaking for all nurses, albeit she took that post down. I'd be interested to hear the views of the RCN on that.

It's also notable that she doesn't deny the Sun story.

And I'll look forward to her front-page exclusive in the Mail/Record/Socialist Worker tomorrow :greengrin

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I think your point is valid but you can't have a debate if it's foundation is not on solid ground.
There are so many question marks associated with QT with regards to it's ethics (or lack of). These needs to be addressed before anything can be discussed properly on this form of 'public' forum.

Its the perennial problem of people making huge macro policy decisions personal- it adds so little to the debate, its pure media fodder, laying enormous bear traps to try and trip-up politicians to everyones amusement and create easy headlines.

[marinello59]

My point is that, in all the stances taken on here, it's the only source than can be taken as authoritative. She is the only person who knows the truth here; everything else is conjecture and agenda-led speculation.

As I said, she claims to be speaking for all nurses. I'd be happy to hear the views of the RCN on that.

It's also notable that she doesn't deny the Sun story.

And I'll look forward to her front-page exclusive in the Mail/Record/Socialist Worker tomorrow :greengrin


That would only make her guilty of an overwhelming sense of self importance. It's hardly a hanging offence and I say that on behalf of all of those opposed to capital punishment.

[CropleyWasGod]

That would only make her guilty of an overwhelming sense of self importance. It's hardly a hanging offence and I say that on behalf of all of those opposed to capital punishment.

I'm not judging her on that. She may be, for all I know, active in the RCN, and has some authority. All I'm doing is setting out what she has said in public about the Twatter****Storm.

[marinello59]

I'm not judging her on that. She may be, for all I know, active in the RCN, and has some authority. All I'm doing is setting out what she has said in public about the Twatter****Storm.

I wasn't being en tirely serious with that one. :greengrin
She has suggested that the meals etc were paid for by friends. I have no idea of the truth of any of this, I'm guessing that as usual it will all lie somewhere in the middle of each extreme viewpoint.

[xyz23jc]

Maybe because she is a member of the public and we all relate the consequences of what our politicians do to our own personal circumstances. Sometimes we blame the wrong people and sometimes we don't accept our own share of the blame. :dunno:

You've taken that more caring and less judgemental jibe too far! :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

I find foodbanks a curious phenomenon, and i admit i dont know much about them, so these are genuine questions -

How does somebody go about using one?

Do the people who promote them have a vested interest in doing so?

How much of the phenomenon is a 'if you build it, they will come?' - if you give something out for free that otherwise costs money, why wouldnt people use it?

Aiui, you can't just rock up and get free food. You have to be referred by, eg. a social worker.

Edit: From Trussell Trust:


Food vouchers

Care professionals such as doctors, health visitors, schools and social workers identify people in crisis and issue them with a foodbank voucher. This entitles them to receive a foodbank parcel of three days’ nutritionally balanced, non-perishable food.

[CropleyWasGod]

I wasn't being en tirely serious with that one. :greengrin
She has suggested that the meals etc were paid for by friends. I have no idea of the truth of any of this, I'm guessing that as usual it will all lie somewhere in the middle of each extreme viewpoint.

So... what you're really trying to say is... sanctify the witch :greengrin

(Note to self.... find some new friends that can offer to send me to NYC)

[marinello59]

So... what you're really trying to say is... sanctify the witch :greengrin

(Note to self.... find some new friends that can offer to send me to NYC)

I have friends who would happily see me much further away than that. :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

I find it hard to understand how someone can say with certainty what someone else gets paid

do you know how many hours she works ?
what her paygrade is ?

if not then you cant say 1 way or the other what her take home pay is


We can say with some certainty that her pay grade means she earns at least 23k. As for the hours she chooses to work, then that has no bearing on how good or poor nurses pay is.

[Moulin Yarns]

why was she using her personal circumstances as a platform for debate regarding whether nurses salaries should be capped or not? many nurses disagree or are offended by the assumption that she speaks for all.

Because it worked so well for Tim Farron last week :wink:

[stoneyburn hibs]

Because it worked so well for Tim Farron last week :wink:

You've went too far in bringing his brother, mother, aunty, grandma and next doors cat into this argument 😁

[Moulin Yarns]

So... what you're really trying to say is... sanctify the witch :greengrin

(Note to self.... find some new friends that can offer to send me to NYC)

Can't do NYC, how does Coventry sound :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Can't do NYC, how does Coventry sound :wink:

Will I still get your trial updates?

And who's their manager this week?




And why are you ignoring me?

[makaveli1875]

Moving on from the toxic debate of the tory plant heriots educated foodbank nurse , to try and lighten this thread up a bit . Who do you all think performed best last night ?

For me it was Patrick Harvie , closely followed by kezia

[JeMeSouviens]

Moving on from the toxic debate of the tory plant heriots educated foodbank nurse , to try and lighten this thread up a bit . Who do you all think performed best last night ?

For me it was Patrick Harvie , closely followed by kezia

On my telly it was a tossup between David Gray & Anthony Stokes. :dunno:

[pontius pilate]

The average salary in Scotland is 23K per year. So if what you say is true, over half of the Scottish population are living in relative poverty at least and as such are relying on foodbanks to make ends meet.

It's an absolute nonsense tbh.

What part is nonsense? The fact that if you earn under the national average you are classes as being in relative poverty? I never once said those under the national average to use food banks. There certainly may be some and there are others who don't as they don't need to and then those that don't due to pride.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Moving on from the toxic debate of the tory plant heriots educated foodbank nurse , to try and lighten this thread up a bit . Who do you all think performed best last night ?

For me it was Patrick Harvie , closely followed by kezia

Thought Kezia was the best of an awful bunch

[pontius pilate]

Thought Kezia was the best of an awful bunch

I agree kezia for me and I don't vote labour. Slowly swinging that way.

[pacoluna]

Thought Kezia was the best of an awful bunch
kezia gets the award for "its the taking part that counts" :greengrin

[Hibernia&Alba]

What part is nonsense? The fact that if you earn under the national average you are classes as being in relative poverty? I never once said those under the national average to use food banks. There certainly may be some and there are others who don't as they don't need to and then those that don't the to pride.

It's divide and rule. Instead of questioning why we have food banks in what is supposedly one of the richest societies in human history, we have working people turning on each other and questioning each other's right to use them. This is exactly what those who welcome the current set up want.

[Moulin Yarns]

Will I still get your trial updates?

And who's their manager this week?




And why are you ignoring me?

:greengrin

[G B Young]

Sturgeon happy to shrug off Joanna Cherry's claim about the nurse's 'Tory councillor husband' as 'an honest mistake':

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-backs-snp-candidate-accused-of-nurse-smear-1-4453415

If she did indeed take as gospel the briefing given to journalists by government minister Jeanne Freeman, you wonder if Freeman will be so lightly excused. I still find it most surprising that as a barrister Cherry would so readily accept such a claim at face value.

[easty]

Sturgeon happy to shrug off Joanna Cherry's claim about the nurse's 'Tory councillor husband' as 'an honest mistake':

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-backs-snp-candidate-accused-of-nurse-smear-1-4453415

If she did indeed take as gospel the briefing given to journalists by government minister Jeanne Freeman, you wonder if Freeman will be so lightly excused. I still find it most surprising that as a barrister Cherry would so readily accept such a claim at face value.

Claim - Sturgeon happy to shrug off Joanna Cherry's claim

Reality - Asked during a campaign stop in Blairgowrie whether she still has confidence in her candidate, Ms Sturgeon said "In terms of Jo Cherry, of course I have confidence. She made a mistake, an honest mistake, and she apologised for that. In terms of the wider social media reaction, I don't think it's acceptable to make judgements about somebody's background"

Are you related to Barry Anderson?

[Mr Grieves]

https://povertyalliance.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/respecting-the-voice-of-experience/

Posted by The Poverty Alliance

"In last night’s television debate ahead of the General Election, a nurse admitted that she had been forced to use a foodbank. This blog isn’t about nurses’ pay, or the election, but about the reaction that this statement provoked online and the impact this can have on people with direct experience of poverty.

The first area we want to address is the idea that someone on a nurse’s salary would not need to use a foodbank. There were many tweets online about why someone on this amount of money would need to go to a foodbank, and many accused the woman of lying. However, we already know that nurses are having to use foodbanks – we’ve seen evidence from the Royal College of Nursing on this. With the cost of living rising faster than people’s incomes (both for those in and out of work) people are likely to come to pressure points and this is when they find themselves having to rely on food banks. Housing costs, childcare and transport are taking up more and more of people’s incomes and one unforeseen circumstance could push many of us into needing help.

It is not up to us to make a moral judgement about how people spend their money. The nurse in question had recently tweeted about a bottle of rose wine. Many seized upon this as evidence of either lying or fiscal irresponsibility. The problem with this is that it ignores the realities of living in poverty or on a low income. It is the same argument that we see every time an episode of Benefits Street is on TV and people ask how someone could be in poverty and have a big TV. People move in and out of poverty, very few people remain in poverty throughout their entire lives. Items can also be gifts, bought on finance or with a credit card. It is also important to remember that people on low incomes deserve the same treats we all enjoy – there are very few of us who can say we have never bought a treat when the money could have been better spent elsewhere. There is often a clear double standard when we talk about how people experiencing poverty spend their money – for those who are well off a treat is deemed just that – a treat. However, when people on low incomes do the same they are often deemed irresponsible and to blame for their own situation.

Finally, we want to raise the fact that by attacking someone online for saying that they have had to go to a foodbank to feed themselves or their family, we reduce the likelihood of people experiencing poverty speaking out. People with lived experience are the experts but a stigma exists around poverty, and it is a brave and difficult decision to speak publicly about what it is like to live on a low income. We work to support activists to do this on a daily basis but the reaction from many people last night will no doubt cause some of our activists to think twice about doing so in future.

People relying on foodbanks for food is a sign of societal failure, not individual failure, so let’s stop blaming people for their poverty and start addressing the structural issues that cause it."

[High-On-Hibs]

What part is nonsense? The fact that if you earn under the national average you are classes as being in relative poverty? I never once said those under the national average to use food banks. There certainly may be some and there are others who don't as they don't need to and then those that don't due to pride.

Sorry, but there are people out there who earn less than half of what she earns who don't rely on foodbank vouchers. Not because of "pride" but because they genuinely don't need them. Not really sure what criteria she would meet to suggest that she would need them.

I'm still not convinced that she ever used a foodbank at any point.

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://povertyalliance.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/respecting-the-voice-of-experience/

Posted by The Poverty Alliance

"In last night’s television debate ahead of the General Election, a nurse admitted that she had been forced to use a foodbank. This blog isn’t about nurses’ pay, or the election, but about the reaction that this statement provoked online and the impact this can have on people with direct experience of poverty.

The first area we want to address is the idea that someone on a nurse’s salary would not need to use a foodbank. There were many tweets online about why someone on this amount of money would need to go to a foodbank, and many accused the woman of lying. However, we already know that nurses are having to use foodbanks – we’ve seen evidence from the Royal College of Nursing on this. With the cost of living rising faster than people’s incomes (both for those in and out of work) people are likely to come to pressure points and this is when they find themselves having to rely on food banks. Housing costs, childcare and transport are taking up more and more of people’s incomes and one unforeseen circumstance could push many of us into needing help.

It is not up to us to make a moral judgement about how people spend their money. The nurse in question had recently tweeted about a bottle of rose wine. Many seized upon this as evidence of either lying or fiscal irresponsibility. The problem with this is that it ignores the realities of living in poverty or on a low income. It is the same argument that we see every time an episode of Benefits Street is on TV and people ask how someone could be in poverty and have a big TV. People move in and out of poverty, very few people remain in poverty throughout their entire lives. Items can also be gifts, bought on finance or with a credit card. It is also important to remember that people on low incomes deserve the same treats we all enjoy – there are very few of us who can say we have never bought a treat when the money could have been better spent elsewhere. There is often a clear double standard when we talk about how people experiencing poverty spend their money – for those who are well off a treat is deemed just that – a treat. However, when people on low incomes do the same they are often deemed irresponsible and to blame for their own situation.

Finally, we want to raise the fact that by attacking someone online for saying that they have had to go to a foodbank to feed themselves or their family, we reduce the likelihood of people experiencing poverty speaking out. People with lived experience are the experts but a stigma exists around poverty, and it is a brave and difficult decision to speak publicly about what it is like to live on a low income. We work to support activists to do this on a daily basis but the reaction from many people last night will no doubt cause some of our activists to think twice about doing so in future.

People relying on foodbanks for food is a sign of societal failure, not individual failure, so let’s stop blaming people for their poverty and start addressing the structural issues that cause it."

I totally agree with this. Telling nurses who experience year on year real terms pay cuts they don't need food banks and just need to manage their money better, is insulting, IMO. It reminds of those who say welfare claimants can't really be poor because they have a television and a mobile phone.

[High-On-Hibs]

https://povertyalliance.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/respecting-the-voice-of-experience/

Posted by The Poverty Alliance

"In last night’s television debate ahead of the General Election, a nurse admitted that she had been forced to use a foodbank. This blog isn’t about nurses’ pay, or the election, but about the reaction that this statement provoked online and the impact this can have on people with direct experience of poverty.

The first area we want to address is the idea that someone on a nurse’s salary would not need to use a foodbank. There were many tweets online about why someone on this amount of money would need to go to a foodbank, and many accused the woman of lying. However, we already know that nurses are having to use foodbanks – we’ve seen evidence from the Royal College of Nursing on this. With the cost of living rising faster than people’s incomes (both for those in and out of work) people are likely to come to pressure points and this is when they find themselves having to rely on food banks. Housing costs, childcare and transport are taking up more and more of people’s incomes and one unforeseen circumstance could push many of us into needing help.

It is not up to us to make a moral judgement about how people spend their money. The nurse in question had recently tweeted about a bottle of rose wine. Many seized upon this as evidence of either lying or fiscal irresponsibility. The problem with this is that it ignores the realities of living in poverty or on a low income. It is the same argument that we see every time an episode of Benefits Street is on TV and people ask how someone could be in poverty and have a big TV. People move in and out of poverty, very few people remain in poverty throughout their entire lives. Items can also be gifts, bought on finance or with a credit card. It is also important to remember that people on low incomes deserve the same treats we all enjoy – there are very few of us who can say we have never bought a treat when the money could have been better spent elsewhere. There is often a clear double standard when we talk about how people experiencing poverty spend their money – for those who are well off a treat is deemed just that – a treat. However, when people on low incomes do the same they are often deemed irresponsible and to blame for their own situation.

Finally, we want to raise the fact that by attacking someone online for saying that they have had to go to a foodbank to feed themselves or their family, we reduce the likelihood of people experiencing poverty speaking out. People with lived experience are the experts but a stigma exists around poverty, and it is a brave and difficult decision to speak publicly about what it is like to live on a low income. We work to support activists to do this on a daily basis but the reaction from many people last night will no doubt cause some of our activists to think twice about doing so in future.

People relying on foodbanks for food is a sign of societal failure, not individual failure, so let’s stop blaming people for their poverty and start addressing the structural issues that cause it."


She's not on a "low income". She earns what many would consider a reasonably healthy income. The article assumes she is telling the truth about using them, against a wave of evidence that would suggest otherwise. The narrative is being shifted from liar to victim. She continues to work in a profession that she has worked in for many years, it's not as if her employers have decided to suddenly give her a 50% wage cut.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Sorry, but there are people out there who earn less than half of what she earns who don't rely on foodbank vouchers. Not because of "pride" but because they genuinely don't need them. Not really sure what criteria she would meet to suggest that she would need them.

I'm still not convinced that she ever used a foodbank at any point.

Perhaps someone earning £12000 per year gets support from elsewhere - either the from the state or privately - so doesn't need food banks for that reason. We can't make a proper analysis from anecdote. To me it sounds like an incredibly big ask for someone living independently, with no other income, to manage on that. Perhaps I'm too accustomed to the high life :confused:

[High-On-Hibs]

Perhaps someone earning £12000 per year gets support from elsewhere - either the from the state or privately - so doesn't need food banks for that reason. We can't make a proper analysis from anecdote. To me it sounds like an incredibly big ask for someone living independently, with no other income, to manage on that. Perhaps I'm too accustomed to the high life :confused:

According to her own admission, she earns £22,345 a year. However, she doesn't state whether that is before or after taxation. :rolleyes:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/capay.jpg

[marinello59]

She's not on a "low income". She earns what many would consider a reasonably healthy income. The article assumes she is telling the truth about using them, against a wave of evidence that would suggest otherwise. The narrative is being shifted from liar to victim. She continues to work in a profession that she has worked in for many years, it's not as if her employers have decided to suddenly give her a 50% wage cut.

You are right. It's only a 14% cut in real terms since 2010. And THAT's the real story for some of us.Whilst so many concentrate on shooting the messenger the Tory Goverment gets away with stuff like this.

This article in the Nursing Times mentions the hardships faced by some in the health service including that some are turning to foodbanks. Are they liars too?
https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/policies-and-guidance/nhs-1-pay-rise-in-england-bitter-blow-to-nurses/7016879.article


The Royal College of Nursing said the increase was effectively a real-terms pay cut, because it meant wages were not keeping up with inflation.
Janet Davies, chief executive and general secretary of the RCN, described the recommendation as a “bitter blow” to nursing staff and that it would put off new people from joining the profession.
“The government has already cut nursing pay by 14% in real-terms – leaving too many struggling and turning to foodbanks and hardship grants,” she said.
“Ministers are ignoring the evidence that staff shortages put patient care and safety at risk. Tens of thousands of nursing jobs lie vacant today and the government missed the opportunity to stop that getting worse,” she said.
She added that the new pay recommendation was on top of a recently confirmed ban on agency work for nurses who are permanently employed by an NHS trust, which the RCN did not support.
Ban on agency shifts at other trusts comes in from April
Agencies claim new rule will ‘make staff shortage even worse’
Unison’s head of health Christina McAnea, who is also the overall spokesperson for unions representing NHS staff, said: “This deal amounts to less than five pounds a week for most midwives, nurses, cleaners, paramedics, radiographers and other healthcare staff.
“It’s a derisory amount in the face of soaring fuel bills, rising food prices and increasing transport costs,” she said.
“The government’s insistence on the 1% cap has tied the pay review body’s hands. As the pay review body itself admits, it can no longer prevent health employees’ pay falling way behind wages in almost every part of the economy,” she added.
She warned that without larger pay rises, experienced staff would leave the NHS, exacerbating the staffing crisis further.
“Today’s unfair settlement is yet more evidence of the government’s failure to invest in the NHS. Ministers must stop relying on goodwill, rethink this short-sighted pay policy and reward staff properly,” she said.
Unite’s national officer for health Sarah Carpenter described the review body’s recommendations as “woefully inadequate”, referring to previous years of continued pay restraint.
“This won’t staunch the recruitment and retention crisis currently affecting many healthcare professions, which is exacerbated by the ugly Brexit shadow hanging over the future of the estimated 55,000 EU nationals working for the NHS,” she said.
The Royal College of Midwives added that it was “extremely disappointing” that the government had chosen to continue with this “disastrous policy” of pay restraint for the seventh year running.
“As a result of below-inflation increases for the past seven years midwives have seen their pay drop in value by over £6,000 since 2010; it is unsustainable for this to continue,” said Jon Skewes, RCM director for policy, employment relations and communications.

He noted there was already a shortage of nursing and midwifery staff in the country with two further “looming” crises coming up, due to the removal of bursaries for healthcare students, and the possibility that European Union staff may not be able to stay in the country following Brexit.
“The government needs to take notice of the evidence that the RCM, and other NHS trade unions put to the NHS Pay Review Body and show they understand the seriousness of the staffing crisis in the NHS and work to retain existing NHS staff in the service,” he added.

[Slavers]

According to her own admission, she earns £22,345 a year. However, she doesn't state whether that is before or after taxation. :rolleyes:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/capay.jpg

Such a shame this nurse only spoke her mind and now she is getting hounded! Sad state of affairs in Scottish politics !

[JimBHibees]

Depends how much you believe what the Sun has to say I guess. What lies did she tell? Jumping on a unsubstantiated twitter rumour and presenting it as 'fact' is the only 'lie' I've seen to have emerged from the debate. And of course the damage is now done, with the nurse taking a heap of unjustified flak:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39997155

That she uses food banks. That she is speaking on behalf of all NHS workers. That nurses in Scotland wanted to strike. That friends and family paid for trips to New York and s****y champagne meals.

[CropleyWasGod]

According to her own admission, she earns £22,345 a year. However, she doesn't state whether that is before or after taxation. :rolleyes:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/capay.jpg

£30k, generally, is about £23.5k net. Would be less if there's a Student Loan.

[Speedy]

On my telly it was a tossup between David Gray & Anthony Stokes. :dunno:

Interview style - Jason Cummings

Mature advice - Darren McGregor

Celebrations - Liam Henderson

Calmly noising up the Jambos - Marvin 'wee man' Bartley

[Beefster]

Good to see that, if anyone strays from the Party line, even someone as saintly as an NHS nurse, they'll continue to be taught that it's not allowed by way of muckraking, online bullying and lies.

After 10 years, she should know that there is no criticising of the Party. If she had been criticising any enemies of the state, we'd have had parades and public holidays in her honour by now (not really, even the Party aren't that efficient).

[Hibernia&Alba]

Such a shame this nurse only spoke her mind and now she is getting hounded! Sad state of affairs in Scottish politics !

I agree. We should be angry that we have need for food banks, even for working people, rather than be angry at each other.

[High-On-Hibs]

She lied through her teeth and the typical imposters are around trying to defend her. :rolleyes:

A food bank isn't a place where you simply turn up and recieve free food. You need to go through a health adviser who assess you on everything before you can recieve vouchers.

Now just imagine for a moment a single mother who's child is already grown up and at university claiming that she can't afford to live on her own on a 23K p/a salary and requires foodbank vouchers to feed herself.

She'd been shown the exit door without hesitation.

[Hibernia&Alba]

According to her own admission, she earns £22,345 a year. However, she doesn't state whether that is before or after taxation. :rolleyes:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/capay.jpg

I mean in relation to your assertion that there are people with an income half of hers who don't use food banks. I'm wondering how on earth they make ends meet.

[High-On-Hibs]

I mean in relation to your assertion that there are people with an income half of hers who don't use food banks. I'm wondering how on earth they make ends meet.

It's hard, but it's not impossible. Thousands of people do it, because they don't have a choice in the matter. There are people in my own family who do it and they don't complain about it either. They simply live within their means. They don't travel around the world and drink fine wine. Their kids go to state schools. They make their food budgets stretch. Thousands of people do it.

There is absolutely zero chance that this women would have been approved for foodbank vouchers on her salary, absolutely none.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It's hard, but it's not impossible. Thousands of people do it, because they don't have a choice in the matter. There are people in my own family who do it and they don't complain about it either. They simply live within their means. They don't travel around the world and drink fine wine. Their kids go to state schools. They make their food budgets stretch. Thousands of people do it.

There is absolutely zero chance that this women would have been approved for foodbank vouchers on her salary, absolutely none.

But how bad do things have to get before people can no longer simply further tighten their belts and 'live within their means' but can no longer manage? And why should they have to - why should nurses have their pay cut by 14% and be told to 'live within their means', when there are bankers bonuses still being paid and top earners still see their incomes rise since 2010? I'm not having that.

[High-On-Hibs]

But how bad do things have to get before people can no longer simply further tighten their belts and 'live within their means' but can no longer manage? And why should they have to - why should nurses have their pay cut by 14% and be told to 'live within their means', when there are bankers bonuses still being paid and top earners are stilling see their incomes rise since 2010? I'm not having that.

The point i'm making is that people still manage on half of her salary, how can she not apparently manage?

Another thing I don't understand is that she mounted an attack against the Scottish Government on nurses pay, when she works for the private health care company BUPA. :confused:

[Pretty Boy]

I mean in relation to your assertion that there are people with an income half of hers who don't use food banks. I'm wondering how on earth they make ends meet.

I earned £6.37 an hour for 2 years after losing my job and having to take 'anything' to get by. That equated to a salary of about £14K a year before tax. I managed to keep a flat, pay my bills, put food on the table and pay for transport to and from work. I didn't receive any benefits in that time.

My circumstances were 'good' in the sense I was single and had no dependents at the time. It wasn't always easy but it was doable. That's obviously anecdotal evidence that gives no real indication to the wider situation, the same could be said for the lady on TV last night though.

It's poor that this person has been demonised and abused and called a liar and whatever else. It's also wrong that her circumstances are being made out to be commonplace with little or no evidence to back it up. We also need to stop pretending £23K is not a decent salary as far as a lot of people are concerned. Ask people in retail, hospitality, cleaning, clerical work and so on if £23K would be considered good money and you'd get a close to unanimous answer.

[Mr Grieves]

She's not on a "low income". She earns what many would consider a reasonably healthy income. The article assumes she is telling the truth about using them, against a wave of evidence that would suggest otherwise. The narrative is being shifted from liar to victim. She continues to work in a profession that she has worked in for many years, it's not as if her employers have decided to suddenly give her a 50% wage cut.

There's evidence that a minority of nurses are having to use food banks, but you keep ignoring that because it doesn't suit your argument.

And if there is a narrative, its been created by a few SNP supporters and MP's losing the plot. The story is now, justifiably, all about the harassment of this woman and gives the Scottish commentariat an excuse to stick the boot in, based on the actions of a minority.

Do you actually think the reaction on twitter last night was justified and that it's helpful to the SNP?

[Hibernia&Alba]

The point i'm making is that people still manage on half of her salary, how can she not apparently manage?

Another thing I don't understand is that she mounted an attack against the Scottish Government on nurses pay, when she works for the private health care company BUPA. :confused:

I don't know about the individual you are speaking of; I didn't see her contribution in the debate. However, there is evidence, including from the Royal College Nurses, that we have in this country (not just in Scotland either) nurses going to food banks. Their pay has dropped 14% in real terms over seven years. The issue has been put directly to the prime minister. There is evidence that food banks are increasingly becoming a destination of last resort not only for people on welfare but also some low paid in work.

[High-On-Hibs]

There's evidence that a minority of nurses are having to use food banks, but you keep ignoring that because it doesn't suit your argument.

And if there is a narrative, its been created by a few SNP supporters and MP's losing the plot. The story is now, justifiably, all about the harassment of this woman and gives the Scottish commentariat an excuse to stick the boot in, based on the actions of a minority.

Do you actually think the reaction on twitter last night was justified and that it's helpful to the SNP?

Trainee nurses who earn around 16k a year who have several kids to bring up... those RARE cases.

Not a single woman living on her own earning 23K a year. :rolleyes:

You are ignoring those facts!

No, the MSM narrative is not justified, just highly predictable.

[High-On-Hibs]

I don't know about the individual you are speaking of; I didn't see her contribution in the debate. However, there is evidence, including from the Royal College Nurses, that we have in this country (not just in Scotland either) nurses going to food banks. Their pay has dropped 14% in real terms over seven years. The issue has been put directly to the prime minister. There is evidence that food banks are increasingly becoming a destination of last resort not only for people on welfare but also some low paid in work.

I'm not arguing about other nurses though. There may well be other nurses who go to foodbanks. Manly those who meet the criteria that I just mentioned in a previous comment.

My argument is purely about a bare faced lie told by someone with an agenda. People like her don't help the case for nurses who really are on hard times.

[JeMeSouviens]

Apols if this is already covered - I haven't read back. Independent NHS pay review recommendations have been met or (albeit slightly) exceeded for lowest paid staff in Scotland since the "Agenda for Change" pay scales were introduced. I don't believe this is the case in England, hence for example junior doctors' industrial action there but not here.

Not great but yet more Scot gov mitigation?