Snap Election?

[marinello59]

From the Guardian:



So there you go, to those who thought it was outlandish to suggest Labour *voters* would switch to the Tories, here's a Labour *MP* saying he supports switching to the Tories. :rolleyes:

To be fair to him that's not what he has said. He has suggested the Tories switch sides in his constituency.

[northstandhibby]

From the Guardian:



So there you go, to those who thought it was outlandish to suggest Labour *voters* would switch to the Tories, here's a Labour *MP* saying he supports switching to the Tories. :rolleyes:

The challenge the SNP face is giving these voters genuine optimistic reasons not to switch to the tories but to the SNP instead. I thought your earlier post outlining independence should be won by setting out reasoned arguments and detailed policy was credible.

The SNP must set out compelling reasons for the electorate to believe in if they want Scotland to be independent rather than sneering or shouting the loudest or even calling folk tories if they're not SNP supporters.

glory glory

[JeMeSouviens]

To be fair to him that's not what he has said. He has suggested the Tories switch sides in his constituency.

The Guardian doesn't quote him directly on that particular aspect but if he "supports tactical voting to defeat the SNP" is a valid assessment of his position then he must advocate Labour voters should vote Tory in some constituencies, no?

[Speedy]

The Guardian doesn't quote him directly on that particular aspect but if he "supports tactical voting to defeat the SNP" is a valid assessment of his position then he must advocate Labour voters should vote Tory in some constituencies, no?

Definitely sounds like he's just angling for votes to go his way.

[CropleyWasGod]

The Guardian doesn't quote him directly on that particular aspect but if he "supports tactical voting to defeat the SNP" is a valid assessment of his position then he must advocate Labour voters should vote Tory in some constituencies, no?

IIRC, Murray himself was the beneficiary of tactical voting last time round. The crinklies mobilised to keep out that twat who patronised them.

[Moulin Yarns]

Definitely sounds like he's just angling for votes to go his way.

Definitely fishy. :wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

The challenge the SNP face is giving these voters genuine optimistic reasons not to switch to the tories but to the SNP instead. I thought your earlier post outlining independence should be won by setting out reasoned arguments and detailed policy was credible.

The SNP must set out compelling reasons for the electorate to believe in if they want Scotland to be independent rather than sneering or shouting the loudest or even calling folk tories if they're not SNP supporters.

glory glory

Sorry, you've lost me. Do you mean you think I'm sneering because I've said that imo the evidence supports the assertion that there is a Unionist vote coalescing behind the Tories?

It's not quite apples with apples because the first is YouGov and the 2nd is Panelbase but:

Westminster VI, full Scotland sample May 2015
SNP 49, Lab 26, Con 15, LD 7

Westminster VI, full Scotland sample March 2017
SNP 47, Con 28, Lab 14, LD 4

Poll after poll shows the same sorts of numbers. It seems the most likely explanation is straight Lab->Tory switching in response to the Scot Tories virtual abandonment of all other policy positions (can anyone off the top of their head remember a Scottish Tory coming up with a positive policy idea?) other than opposing the SNP and independence.

[JeMeSouviens]

IIRC, Murray himself was the beneficiary of tactical voting last time round. The crinklies mobilised to keep out that twat who patronised them.

Paco McSheepy? Yes, absolutely.

[northstandhibby]

Sorry, you've lost me. Do you mean you think I'm sneering because I've said that imo the evidence supports the assertion that there is a Unionist vote coalescing behind the Tories?

It's not quite apples with apples because the first is YouGov and the 2nd is Panelbase but:

Westminster VI, full Scotland sample May 2015
SNP 49, Lab 26, Con 15, LD 7

Westminster VI, full Scotland sample March 2017
SNP 47, Con 28, Lab 14, LD 4

Poll after poll shows the same sorts of numbers. It seems the most likely explanation is straight Lab->Tory switching in response to the Scot Tories virtual abandonment of all other policy positions (can anyone off the top of their head remember a Scottish Tory coming up with a positive policy idea?) other than opposing the SNP and independence.

My perfectly reasonable point being -

Its pointless moaning or grumbling in relation to what other parties do or not to strengthen their positions. The challenge is for the SNP to win the arguments and shift folk onto their side by giving them a reason to switch not to the tories but the SNP instead.

Give a strong case for folk to vote SNP and win the arguments is what i'm saying instead of whinging about what the other parties are up to.

glory glory

[JeMeSouviens]

My perfectly reasonable point being -

Its pointless moaning or grumbling in relation to what other parties do or not to strengthen their positions. The challenge is for the SNP to win the arguments and shift folk onto their side by giving them a reason to switch not to the tories but the SNP instead.

Give a strong case for folk to vote SNP and win the arguments is what i'm saying instead of whinging about what the other parties are up to.

glory glory

tbh, I wasn't (at least intending to be) moaning or grumbling, I was more just commenting on how I see the current political landscape. Surely I don't have to articulate a positive vision of independence in *every* post. I'm mostly a bitter, cynical pessimist you know. :wink:

[northstandhibby]

tbh, I wasn't (at least intending to be) moaning or grumbling, I was more just commenting on how I see the current political landscape. Surely I don't have to articulate a positive vision of independence in *every* post. I'm mostly a bitter, cynical pessimist you know. :wink:

If you want independence you'll have to consistently set out a strong positive realistic vision and narrative for it with compelling reasons as its what will win over voters.

:wink:

[The Green Goblin]

I would defend the SNP a bit on this. I dont think the most visible nationalist / socialists (not in THAT way...) on this board are very representative of SNP supporters, or the party generally, certainly pre-sturgeon.

The surge in SNP support post 2014 has meant a lot of hitherto labour folk switched to the SNP, amd have been projecting their hopes / ideals onto the SNP, who of course are happy to let them.

The SNP under salmond were very centreist, amd actually a wee bit populist when it suited them. They had a few senior members of that govt who i would even put on the right of centre.

Even as the language from Sturgeon has shifted, amd she has moved her best minister (and long time rival) Swinney away from finance, she still has not dared to significantly raise taxes, rather she refused to pass on the UK govt cut.

So whilr i do think sturgeon is a lefty (but a nationalist first) large swathes of her party are not. I got lambasted a few weeks ago for suggesting that in a post indy Scotland, lots of SNP supporters amd politicians would be attracted to a new right of centre party.

They may change undr sturgeon, but at its heart i still think many in the SNP are small 'c' conservative, and nationalist (in the sense that they want scottiah people to have their country back, and emd English domination).

Thats obviously not a popular view on here as many of the recent left converts to nationalism struggle to reconcile their position as nationalists.


Yes voters (including English Yes voters living in Scotland) have been very clear that this is about ending Westminster domination.

[Swedish hibee]

Worth remebering this forum is in no way representative of Edinburgh, let alone Scotland.

The polls on here were very pro indy but we know how that went.

Agree. The one who shouts the loudest is often the weakest!

I often feel uncomfortable reading views on twitter as it gets so nasty & personnel, but on here its just petty & fun to watch certain posters lose their cool😎

[snooky]

Yes voters (including English Yes voters living in Scotland) have been very clear that this is about ending Westminster domination.

You are spot on. The SNP wouldn't be the force it is if Westminster 'played the game' not just with Scotland, but with the rest of the UK too. Self inflicted wound as they say.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Yes voters (including English Yes voters living in Scotland) have been very clear that this is about ending Westminster domination.

Yeah fair point, an important distinction. Happy to stand corrected Green Goblin.

[Hibrandenburg]

I simply don't get why Scotland wants to come out of the UK to join Europe if you want to be an independent country?????
What is the point of that? Why not be independent full stop?

Is Germany independent?

[JeMeSouviens]

Is Germany independent?

Or Sweden come to that? Maybe he should rename himself EUish hibee :dunno:

[ronaldo7]

IIRC, Murray himself was the beneficiary of tactical voting last time round. The crinklies mobilised to keep out that twat who patronised them.

I'm an MP, Murray, better watch his step.:wink:

18406

[marinello59]

May had said she is happy with all the Tory candidates when asked about those facing potential charges relating to election expenses. I take it McGarry and Thomson's Westminster careers are now over though. Anybody know?

[ronaldo7]

May had said she is happy with all the Tory candidates when asked about those facing potential charges relating to election expenses. I take it McGarry and Thomson's Westminster careers are now over though. Anybody know?

McGarry is expecting a child, so she may have different priorities. Not sure about Thomson.

[marinello59]

McGarry is expecting a child, so she may have different priorities. Not sure about Thomson.

It does seem a bit unfair though as they are still not guilty of anything.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

McGarry is expecting a child, so she may have different priorities. Not sure about Thomson.

Yet she voted against the election... strange.

Anyway surely its for local branches to decide?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

It does seem a bit unfair though as they are still not guilty of anything.

Agree with this, innocent until proven guilty. As are the tories accused of malfeasance.

[ronaldo7]

BNP manifesto 2005...Tory Party today?

A piece by Craig Murray.

I was struck by how entirely similar Theresa May’s discourse is to that of the British National Party candidate I fought in Blackburn in 2005. That led me to turn to the BNP 2005 Manifesto, and I can see little significant difference between it and current Tory policy.
The British National Party in 2005 advocated:

– Severe cuts in immigration
– Leaving the EU
– Bringing back grammar schools
– Increased military spending
– More “security” and “strong leadership”
– Foreign policy driven by “British national interest” not human rights
– Reduce development aid

Indeed, the few differences I can find between the BNP 2005 manifesto and the current Tory platform are in areas like the NHS, where the Tories are more right wing than the BNP were.

Thankfully it was still considered by most people socially beyond the pale to support the BNP in 2005. Today the media portray anyone perceptibly to the left of those positions as mad. Society has changed markedly – and not for the better

[ronaldo7]

Katie Hopkins attacks the First Minister, and Mhairi Black.

https://t.co/tHVago0EUM

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Katie Hopkins attacks the First Minister, and Mhairi Black.

https://t.co/tHVago0EUM

You shouldn't even give that woman the publicity mate.

[The Green Goblin]

Yeah fair point, an important distinction. Happy to stand corrected Green Goblin.

Cheers and no worries! :aok:

[Jack]

Katie Hopkins attacks the First Minister, and Mhairi Black.

https://t.co/tHVago0EUM

Proof if its needed they're both worth voting for!

[JeMeSouviens]

Katie Hopkins attacks the First Minister, and Mhairi Black.

https://t.co/tHVago0EUM

Less interesting what she says than that it's considered acceptable in a mainstream UK publication to essentially slag people off on account of them being working class Scots. I thought we were supposed to be the bigoted, racist, jackboot polishing Nazis? :wink:

[Swedish hibee]

Just out of curiosity, why are so many against grammar schools? Surely if someone from a poor background is clever & has a chance to escape that life through education- it's only a good thing.
I understand everyone has a right to the same education and it should be this(as it is in Sweden) but with education standards so low in Scotland (your behind many poorer countries for goodness sake!) what happens to these bright children with huge potential in a rotten system?

[Mon Dieu4]

Just out of curiosity, why are so many against grammar schools? Surely if someone from a poor background is clever & has a chance to escape that life through education- it's only a good thing.
I understand everyone has a right to the same education and it should be this(as it is in Sweden) but with education standards so low in Scotland (your behind many poorer countries for goodness sake!) what happens to these bright children with huge potential in a rotten system?

We don't have grammar schools in Scotland, they are in England and Wales, all kids go to their local school here and they are in different levels of class dependent on grading, you can move up or down classes dependent on how you perform or if help is needed, this is the right way to do it in my opinion and although the levels have slipped over the last few years I think we still have a vastly superior and fairer system than down south. Always room for improvement when it comes to educating kids though

[Swedish hibee]

We don't have grammar schools in Scotland, they are in England and Wales, all kids go to their local school here and they are in different levels of class dependent on grading, you can move up or down classes dependent on how you perform or if help is needed, this is the right way to do it in my opinion and although the levels have slipped over the last few years I think we still have a vastly superior and fairer system than down south. Always room for improvement when it comes to educating kids though

Ah yes, this is good to know. Thank you for educating me! I agree with you, Education must come first absolutely.

[pacoluna]

Ah yes, this is good to know. Thank you for educating me! I agree with you, Education must come first absolutely.
The test that you are required to pass in order to attend a grammar school is tailored towards those who have been tutored. Tuition costs money, which in my opinion reinforces middle - class privilege.

[ronaldo7]

You shouldn't even give that woman the publicity mate.

Au contraire, she should be highlighted at every opportunity, to show others how absolutely ***** mental she is.

It's what the Scotsman has become now.:aok:

[Slavers]

Less interesting what she says than that it's considered acceptable in a mainstream UK publication to essentially slag people off on account of them being working class Scots. I thought we were supposed to be the bigoted, racist, jackboot polishing Nazis? :wink:

To be fair I'm working class scottish and I find alot of the SNP MP'S to be chips and cheese eating roughnecks!

[JeMeSouviens]

To be fair I'm working class scottish and I find alot of the SNP MP'S to be chips and cheese eating roughnecks!

I'll leave that to you and your therapist. :wink:

[Smartie]

Ah yes, this is good to know. Thank you for educating me! I agree with you, Education must come first absolutely.

I must admit that I'm quite enjoying your "outsider looking in" questions.

A lot of the dialogue on a lot of subjects has become tired, predictable and a lot of people have retreated into their bunkers backing anything and everything that their favoured political parties are saying.

I don't think enough people in this country ask questions of themselves and their own parties. There is often an immediate instinct to oppose something "just because the bloody Tories thought of it so it must be bad" rather than actually consider it's merits before dismissing it.

I think the Grammar school idea is worthy of further consideration if not immediate implementation, even if it is not currently on the cards in Scotland. I'm a huge believer in education, in equality of opportunity. My political beliefs range from quite left-wing to quite right-wing on a subject by subject basis, levelling out somewhere near the centre. My education beliefs are very left-wing, I'd like to see a lot more done to feed kids at school as well as throwing money at primary, secondary, further education as well as apprenticeships.

If we ever get onto health, I'm sure my views will be fairly universally unpopular on here....

I don't comfortably sit in any of the party boxes and anyone that I vote for will only ever be a "best fit".

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Au contraire, she should be highlighted at every opportunity, to show others how absolutely ***** mental she is.

It's what the Scotsman has become now.:aok:

I disagree, she wants attention. Dont give her it and she goes away. If she gets the cybernat community all up in arms, having a go back at her via twitter, shes done her job and you habe all written her next article for her.

But jusy my opinion.

I agree the scotsman has gone way downhill, bit its nowhere near as bad as that. And from a guy who posts links to the National, its an odd accusation!

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I must admit that I'm quite enjoying your "outsider looking in" questions.

A lot of the dialogue on a lot of subjects has become tired, predictable and a lot of people have retreated into their bunkers backing anything and everything that their favoured political parties are saying.

I don't think enough people in this country ask questions of themselves and their own parties. There is often an immediate instinct to oppose something "just because the bloody Tories thought of it so it must be bad" rather than actually consider it's merits before dismissing it.

I think the Grammar school idea is worthy of further consideration if not immediate implementation, even if it is not currently on the cards in Scotland. I'm a huge believer in education, in equality of opportunity. My political beliefs range from quite left-wing to quite right-wing on a subject by subject basis, levelling out somewhere near the centre. My education beliefs are very left-wing, I'd like to see a lot more done to feed kids at school as well as throwing money at primary, secondary, further education as well as apprenticeships.

If we ever get onto health, I'm sure my views will be fairly universally unpopular on here....

I don't comfortably sit in any of the party boxes and anyone that I vote for will only ever be a "best fit".

Thats an admirable way approach things.

[ronaldo7]

[QUOTE=SouthsideHarp_Bhoy;5017671]I disagree, she wants attention. Dont give her it and she goes away. If she gets the cybernat community all up in arms, having a go back at her via twitter, shes done her job and you habe all written her next article for her.

But jusy my opinion.

I agree the scotsman has gone way downhill, bit its nowhere near as bad as that. And from a guy who posts links to the National, its an odd accusation!QUOTE]

I suppose, I should be glad you never mentioned wings. You best get back to your Daily Mail now.:aok:

[JeMeSouviens]

I must admit that I'm quite enjoying your "outsider looking in" questions.

A lot of the dialogue on a lot of subjects has become tired, predictable and a lot of people have retreated into their bunkers backing anything and everything that their favoured political parties are saying.

I don't think enough people in this country ask questions of themselves and their own parties. There is often an immediate instinct to oppose something "just because the bloody Tories thought of it so it must be bad" rather than actually consider it's merits before dismissing it.

I think the Grammar school idea is worthy of further consideration if not immediate implementation, even if it is not currently on the cards in Scotland. I'm a huge believer in education, in equality of opportunity. My political beliefs range from quite left-wing to quite right-wing on a subject by subject basis, levelling out somewhere near the centre. My education beliefs are very left-wing, I'd like to see a lot more done to feed kids at school as well as throwing money at primary, secondary, further education as well as apprenticeships.

If we ever get onto health, I'm sure my views will be fairly universally unpopular on here....

I don't comfortably sit in any of the party boxes and anyone that I vote for will only ever be a "best fit".

afaik the evidence suggests grammar schools make equality of opportunity worse. Well off parents get their kids coached through the selection phase at 11.

[Smartie]

afaik the evidence suggests grammar schools make equality of opportunity worse. Well off parents get their kids coached through the selection phase at 11.

Yes, with the hugely imperfect current education system being the way it currently is.

I've not stated I'm in favour of it, not by a long shot, I just think that it is worthy of further consideration.

In the past, when a more similar system to the grammar school system was in place, it was easier for people from deprived backgrounds to reach the top. Nowadays it is significantly more difficult. In our desire to be "fair" we drag down the talented but poor kids to reach a level with the disinterested, less talented et al, leaving the way to the top much easier for those who are privately educated.

My parents are Fifers and are roughly of an age with people like Val McDermid, Gordon Brown, Iain Banks, Turnbull Hutton and Ian Rankin. It is an area that is so rich in natural ability it is frightening but it is far harder for people from a "normal" background to reach the heights that these people did.

I'm open to the idea that grammar schools may help, if not yet entirely convinced by it.

[JeMeSouviens]

Yes, with the hugely imperfect current education system being the way it currently is.

I've not stated I'm in favour of it, not by a long shot, I just think that it is worthy of further consideration.

In the past, when a more similar system to the grammar school system was in place, it was easier for people from deprived backgrounds to reach the top. Nowadays it is significantly more difficult. In our desire to be "fair" we drag down the talented but poor kids to reach a level with the disinterested, less talented et al, leaving the way to the top much easier for those who are privately educated.

My parents are Fifers and are roughly of an age with people like Val McDermid, Gordon Brown, Iain Banks, Turnbull Hutton and Ian Rankin. It is an area that is so rich in natural ability it is frightening but it is far harder for people from a "normal" background to reach the heights that these people did.

I'm open to the idea that grammar schools may help, if not yet entirely convinced by it.

Do you have any evidence for this?

Apart from Broon where it is, I would say, practically impossible for a Scottish person to be UK prime minister because of enhanced devolution (well at least if they represent a Scottish constituency).

[ronaldo7]

Nick Robinson at it again with his BBC Bias. This time it's against Corbyn.

https://t.co/nIFbUeCP1u

[Moulin Yarns]

This should be fun

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39671163

Let's vote for who can raise them the highest :greengrin

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

This should be fun

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39671163

Let's vote for who can raise them the highest :greengrin

That would be quite a move. Does further hint at May being far more centreist than people have seen so far.

Will be interesting to watch...

[JeMeSouviens]

That would be quite a move. Does further hint at May being far more centreist than people have seen so far.

Will be interesting to watch...

Much more likely they are allowing wriggle room for a downturn. In fact I tend to think this whole election is because they think 2020 (the end of the original 5 year term) is likely to be when Brexit starts to bite.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Much more likely they are allowing wriggle room for a downturn. In fact I tend to think this whole election is because they think 2020 (the end of the original 5 year term) is likely to be when Brexit starts to bite.

I did wonder how people might put a negative spin on the Tories considering tax rises. I need wonder no more!

[Hibrandenburg]

This should be fun

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39671163

Let's vote for who can raise them the highest :greengrin

Think the biggest hint has to be his about-turn after the last budget, it's hardly a secret.

[JeMeSouviens]

I did wonder how people might put a negative spin on the Tories considering tax rises. I need wonder no more!

Happy to help. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

I did wonder how people might put a negative spin on the Tories considering tax rises. I need wonder no more!

Okay, here's a conspiracy theory for you.

May didn't want Brexit. On the face of it, she says she wants it now.

There's anecdotal evidence to suggest that a lot of people who voted Leave are now saying "wtf have I done?".

She calls a snap election which is being billed as being about Brexit, at a time when the opposition is reduced to Mhairi Black and a few others.

They are now leaking possible tax rises, which might be necessary as a result of Brexit.

Does this all add up to "we know we will win this election, but we don't mind if we have our majority cut if the people are telling us 'actually, we dinny want Brexit after all'"

...and then May finds a way to have a second referendum.



Or should I get on with my work? :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Okay, here's a conspiracy theory for you.

May didn't want Brexit. On the face of it, she says she wants it now.

There's anecdotal evidence to suggest that a lot of people who voted Leave are now saying "wtf have I done?".

She calls a snap election which is being billed as being about Brexit, at a time when the opposition is reduced to Mhairi Black and a few others.

They are now leaking possible tax rises, which might be necessary as a result of Brexit.

Does this all add up to "we know we will win this election, but we don't mind if we have our majority cut if the people are telling us 'actually, we dinny want Brexit after all'"

...and then May finds a way to have a second referendum.



Or should I get on with my work? :greengrin

Love a conspiracy theory.

[Hibrandenburg]

Okay, here's a conspiracy theory for you.

May didn't want Brexit. On the face of it, she says she wants it now.

There's anecdotal evidence to suggest that a lot of people who voted Leave are now saying "wtf have I done?".

She calls a snap election which is being billed as being about Brexit, at a time when the opposition is reduced to Mhairi Black and a few others.

They are now leaking possible tax rises, which might be necessary as a result of Brexit.

Does this all add up to "we know we will win this election, but we don't mind if we have our majority cut if the people are telling us 'actually, we dinny want Brexit after all'"

...and then May finds a way to have a second referendum.



Or should I get on with my work? :greengrin


Said something similar before Cameron stepped down. Only difference is I predicted a pro EU party/coalition winning the election. Stranger things have happened.

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38148520

Yay. 🙌 vote Labour if you are over 61.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Okay, here's a conspiracy theory for you.

May didn't want Brexit. On the face of it, she says she wants it now.

There's anecdotal evidence to suggest that a lot of people who voted Leave are now saying "wtf have I done?".

She calls a snap election which is being billed as being about Brexit, at a time when the opposition is reduced to Mhairi Black and a few others.

They are now leaking possible tax rises, which might be necessary as a result of Brexit.

Does this all add up to "we know we will win this election, but we don't mind if we have our majority cut if the people are telling us 'actually, we dinny want Brexit after all'"

...and then May finds a way to have a second referendum.



Or should I get on with my work? :greengrin

It wouldnt surprise me.

There has always been something a bit strange about May rushing to embrace as harsh a Brexit as possible.

And i think if we know anything about her, its that she is calculated, patient and also quite ruthless.

Ive always wondered if a fudge ober brexit would happen. This GE certainly seems to make that more of a possibility. It would also explain why she feels so emboldened to confront the SNP so aggressively.

Shes a hard one to pedict.

[CropleyWasGod]

It wouldnt surprise me.

There has always been something a bit strange about May rushing to embrace as harsh a Brexit as possible.

And i think if we know anything about her, its that she is calculated, patient and also quite ruthless.

Ive always wondered if a fudge ober brexit would happen. This GE certainly seems to make that more of a possibility. It would also explain why she feels so emboldened to confront the SNP so aggressively.

Shes a hard one to pedict.

Hmm...

So, if I'm right, you might find my body up Clerrie Woods with a bottle of pills beside me.... :greengrin ("aye well, he wis a weird one, him. He was always on that Depression thread on Hibs.net. ***** loony, if you ask me....")

[Swedish hibee]

I must admit that I'm quite enjoying your "outsider looking in" questions.

A lot of the dialogue on a lot of subjects has become tired, predictable and a lot of people have retreated into their bunkers backing anything and everything that their favoured political parties are saying.

I don't think enough people in this country ask questions of themselves and their own parties. There is often an immediate instinct to oppose something "just because the bloody Tories thought of it so it must be bad" rather than actually consider it's merits before dismissing it.

I think the Grammar school idea is worthy of further consideration if not immediate implementation, even if it is not currently on the cards in Scotland. I'm a huge believer in education, in equality of opportunity. My political beliefs range from quite left-wing to quite right-wing on a subject by subject basis, levelling out somewhere near the centre. My education beliefs are very left-wing, I'd like to see a lot more done to feed kids at school as well as throwing money at primary, secondary, further education as well as apprenticeships.

If we ever get onto health, I'm sure my views will be fairly universally unpopular on here....

I don't comfortably sit in any of the party boxes and anyone that I vote for will only ever be a "best fit".

I find politics in UK so fascinating. Everything is divided into 2 categories- north/south, poor/rich, yes/no etc etc- nobody ever seems to agree on anything. Even when good ideas happen- it's never quite grasped by everyone United together as loyalty to the division comes first.
Fascinating isn't it!

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Hmm...

So, if I'm right, you might find my body up Clerrie Woods with a bottle of pills beside me.... :greengrin ("aye well, he wis a weird one, him. He was always on that Depression thread on Hibs.net. ***** loony, if you ask me....)

This is all getting a bit Homeland for me...

[JeMeSouviens]

It wouldnt surprise me.

There has always been something a bit strange about May rushing to embrace as harsh a Brexit as possible.

And i think if we know anything about her, its that she is calculated, patient and also quite ruthless.

Ive always wondered if a fudge ober brexit would happen. This GE certainly seems to make that more of a possibility. It would also explain why she feels so emboldened to confront the SNP so aggressively.

Shes a hard one to pedict.

Not really. She spent years in the home office obsessed with immigration.

[McD]

I must admit that I'm quite enjoying your "outsider looking in" questions.

A lot of the dialogue on a lot of subjects has become tired, predictable and a lot of people have retreated into their bunkers backing anything and everything that their favoured political parties are saying.

I don't think enough people in this country ask questions of themselves and their own parties. There is often an immediate instinct to oppose something "just because the bloody Tories thought of it so it must be bad" rather than actually consider it's merits before dismissing it.

I think the Grammar school idea is worthy of further consideration if not immediate implementation, even if it is not currently on the cards in Scotland. I'm a huge believer in education, in equality of opportunity. My political beliefs range from quite left-wing to quite right-wing on a subject by subject basis, levelling out somewhere near the centre. My education beliefs are very left-wing, I'd like to see a lot more done to feed kids at school as well as throwing money at primary, secondary, further education as well as apprenticeships.

If we ever get onto health, I'm sure my views will be fairly universally unpopular on here....

I don't comfortably sit in any of the party boxes and anyone that I vote for will only ever be a "best fit".



Another terrific post mate :aok:

i dont know enough about the grammar school system to comment, but I would agree that any idea which could mean fairer and better education for all children should be considered.

[ronaldo7]

RapeclauseRuth has been appointed an Honorary Colonel in the Army reserve.:greengrin

I wonder if conscription will be in the Tory manifesto?

https://t.co/TkNLrCe14l

[Slavers]

RapeclauseRuth has been appointed an Honorary Colonel in the Army reserve.:greengrin

I wonder if conscription will be in the Tory manifesto?

https://t.co/TkNLrCe14l

More than likely not.

[Colr]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38148520

Yay. 🙌 vote Labour if you are over 61.

Go down well with the young Corbynistas I would think.

[snooky]

Okay, here's a conspiracy theory for you.

May didn't want Brexit. On the face of it, she says she wants it now.

There's anecdotal evidence to suggest that a lot of people who voted Leave are now saying "wtf have I done?".

She calls a snap election which is being billed as being about Brexit, at a time when the opposition is reduced to Mhairi Black and a few others.

They are now leaking possible tax rises, which might be necessary as a result of Brexit.

Does this all add up to "we know we will win this election, but we don't mind if we have our majority cut if the people are telling us 'actually, we dinny want Brexit after all'"

...and then May finds a way to have a second referendum.


Or should I get on with my work? :greengrin

Wouldn't surprise me one iota. It's a BIG game that gets played out at the top level of the political spectrum. Alas, we are just the sacrificial pawns. Each and every one of us - even them folk who think they're upper class. :wink:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Not really. She spent years in the home office obsessed with immigration.

That is kind of the job of the home office, to be fair!

[Mibbes Aye]

May is the epitome of the pragmatic Conservative, as opposed to the ideological Conservative.

That's what makes her so dangerous.

[northstandhibby]

May is the epitome of the pragmatic Conservative, as opposed to the ideological Conservative.

That's what makes her so dangerous.

:top marks

I get the impression May is more Thatcherite than Thatcher herself.

glory glory

[makaveli1875]

i had the young tories at the door a little while ago . Its the 1st time iv ever seen the tories out in the streets in my area, they usually finish a distance last in this constituency and dont even bother coming here .

[northstandhibby]

i had the young tories at the door a little while ago . Its the 1st time iv ever seen the tories out in the streets in my area, they usually finish a distance last in this constituency and dont even bother coming here .

Didn't you invite Tarquin, Neville, Jemima and Rupert in for a chat and a cup of the best char?

:greengrin

glory glory

[JeMeSouviens]

I actually vaguely know one of the Tory local election candidates here. His son plays in the same team as my younger laddie. Happily I've always thought he was an ******** so no moral dilemmas! :wink:

[ronaldo7]

This guy ticks all the boxes. Top council official, ex BBC journo, and transport Quango member, is under investigation for breaching professional rules and electoral law by assisting Labour's local poll campaign.

https://t.co/OUCm9xQbPL

Innocent until proven guilty though. Maybe just a slap on the wrists.

[Moulin Yarns]

This one for the Council elections made me laugh.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/shetland-tory-candidate-cries-cock-up-over-selection-1-4426228


Thomas Williamson, who is a Conservative candidate for Lerwick North, told the Shetland Times he had no interest in standing. According to the newspaper, Mr Williamson, known locally as “Skerries Tom”, said he had received a phone call from “two guys from south”. He had been asked questions about council elections and answered yes or no. It had been a “crackling line” and then he “got cut off”. Mr Williamson described the episode as a “cock-up”, and claimed not to have signed any documents indicating his intention to stand. Interviewed by the Shetland Times, he said he had taken a call from “buggers doon sooth” and that he had heard nothing further about it until he saw his name in the notice of election.

[ronaldo7]

Big Eck hits it firmly on the head.

https://t.co/QwopU0dU2U

[G B Young]

i had the young tories at the door a little while ago . Its the 1st time iv ever seen the tories out in the streets in my area, they usually finish a distance last in this constituency and dont even bother coming here .

This latest poll will be giving the Tories confidence in Scotland.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/third-of-scots-voters-will-vote-tory-in-general-election-1-4427026

Remains to be seen how accurate that proves to be of course, but what seems to be the consistent theme of every poll is that Labour look set to sink to fresh depths across the UK.

[northstandhibby]

This latest poll will be giving the Tories confidence in Scotland.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/third-of-scots-voters-will-vote-tory-in-general-election-1-4427026

Remains to be seen how accurate that proves to be of course, but what seems to be the consistent theme of every poll is that Labour look set to sink to fresh depths across the UK.

Most unfortunately I would agree Labour will be squeezed out to the margins in Scotland as a great number have already defected to snp. The tories will almost certainly benefit from these same Labour voters and other unionistas who will take sides now in light of another potential yes no vote.

glory glory

[marinello59]

Most unfortunately I would agree Labour will be squeezed out to the margins in Scotland as a great number have already defected to snp. The tories will almost certainly benefit from these same Labour voters and other unionistas who will take sides now in light of another potential yes no vote.

glory glory

There will be very few existsing Labour voters going Tory just because of the constitutional question. That is wishful thinking from the more obsessed Nationalists who would love to see us split along those lines. Where the seat of Goverment is comes pretty far down the list of why people vote Labour. Opposition to the Tories trumps that big time.

[northstandhibby]

There will be very few existsing Labour voters going Tory just because of the constitutional question. That is wishful thinking from the more obsessed Nationalists who would love to see us split along those lines. Where the seat of Goverment is comes pretty far down the list of why people vote Labour. Opposition to the Tories trumps that big time.

Fair point. It would take some holding of the nostrils maybe even cutting off the nose entirely to vote tory being a Labour supporter.

glory glory

[G B Young]

There will be very few existsing Labour voters going Tory just because of the constitutional question. That is wishful thinking from the more obsessed Nationalists who would love to see us split along those lines. Where the seat of Goverment is comes pretty far down the list of why people vote Labour. Opposition to the Tories trumps that big time.

Perhaps not in Scotland but there's serious concern in England about potential defection from Labour voters to the Tories due to the fact the Tories appear stronger on Brexit, which a very large number of traditional Labour supporters voted for. Hence why Corbyn is belatedly trying to make some sort of coherent utterings on his Brexit views (which appear largely indistinguishable from the Tory view!).

And granted it's an Express poll, but the Corbyn factor alone seems enough for a significant number to switch:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/795206/Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-Theresa-May-General-Election-2017-poll

[Hibrandenburg]

There will be very few existsing Labour voters going Tory just because of the constitutional question. That is wishful thinking from the more obsessed Nationalists who would love to see us split along those lines. Where the seat of Goverment is comes pretty far down the list of why people vote Labour. Opposition to the Tories trumps that big time.

I'm not so sure about that. There's a whole lot of working class people who like to go marching around July and who come from strong labour backgrounds that would sell their souls to Satan before wanting to dissolve the Union. If it comes down to having to vote Tory to save their Britishness then they won't lose a nights sleep over it.

[northstandhibby]

I'm not so sure about that. There's a whole lot of working class people who like to go marching around July and who come from strong labour backgrounds that would sell their souls to Satan before wanting to dissolve the Union. If it comes down to having to vote Tory to save their Britishness then they won't lose a nights sleep over it.

This is a new one for me as most Labour supporters I know would be on the other side shoulder to shoulder with Unite Against Fascism than marching with the Bnp, Tories and small c Snp types. I'm not saying there's no Labour voters who may march with the unionistas but I'd suggest very few.

glory glory

[ronaldo7]

Suspect package sent to SNP MP John Nicolson's office. :rolleyes:

https://t.co/qifbuxgzxz

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39737981

The UK government has lost a court bid to delay publication of its air pollution strategy, and must publish after the May elections

Corrections on BBC


The UK government has lost a court bid to delay publication of its air pollution strategy, and must publish before the June election.
Courts had given the government until Monday to set out draft guidelines to tackle illegal levels of nitrogen dioxide (NO2) pollution.

Then, late last week, minsters lodged an application with the High Court to delay publication of the strategy until after the general election on 8 June.

They argued that it fell foul of election "purdah" rules.

And there was a knife incident at Westminster today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39736733

[ronaldo7]

Why the hell are the Greens not in this debate, when they have more MSP's than the Lib Dems?

https://t.co/QE92XVUMeT

[Moulin Yarns]

Suspect package sent to SNP MP John Nicolson's office. :rolleyes:

https://t.co/qifbuxgzxz




Corporate News Item - Suspect packages delivered to neighbouring council
You may have heard reports of suspect packages being delivered to Angus Council. We would like to remind all colleagues of the importance of remaining vigilant towards potential terrorist threats.
 Ask for ID before letting people you don’t recognise into buildings through staff entrances
 Carry your ID and be willing to show it if asked
 Report suspect packages or suspect vehicles in or near the premises

 Read the Council’s Threat of Terrorism Guide so that you know what to do if you receive a suspect package or phone call




Here is the guidance


Appendix 1 – Telephone Bomb Threat Checklist
If possible, tell someone else immediately so that they can tell the Head of Establishment (or Deputy).

• Do not put down the handset or stop the conversation.
• Switch on call recorder (if available).
• Try to keep the caller talking (apologise for a bad phone line, ask him or her to speak up, and so on).
• Get as much information as you can.
• Fill in this form as you go along.
• Ask the questions below if the caller does not give you the information that you need.
• Try and ask them in the order they appear so that you don’t miss anything out.

Ask the caller the following questions…
Where is the bomb right now?
When is it going to explode?
What does it look like?
What kind of bomb is it?
What will cause it to explode?
Did you place the bomb?
Why?
Who are you?
What is your address?
What is your telephone number?

The following part should be completed once the caller has hung up and the Head of Establishment (or Deputy) and Police have been informed.
Time and date of call:
Length of call:
Number at which the call was received (i.e. your extension number):
About the caller:
Male: _____ Female: ______ Age: ________ Nationality: _____________________
Tick as appropriate

Speech Background sounds
Well Spoken Street noises
Irrational House noises
Taped message Animal noises
Offensive Crockery
Incoherent Motor
Message read by threat-maker Clear
Voice
Caller’s voice Static
Calm PA System
Crying Booth
Clearing throat Music
Angry Factory machinery
Nasal Office Machinery
Slurred Other (please specify)
Excited WAS A CODE WORD USED?
Stutter
Disguised Other Remarks/
Slow Observations
Lisp

Type of Accent
Rapid
Deep
Hoarse
Laughter
Familiar
If a familiar voice whose did it sound like


Thanks, but I think I will just vacate the building after setting off the alarm!

[HiBremian]

Tongue-in-cheek film about how Corbyn wins a landslide. Must have been made by a Hibbie, going by the photo on the wall on 30 mins :greengrin

https://www.facebook.com/projectingreality/videos/1881246458756065/

[ronaldo7]

The control of the media from the Tory PR team is verging on the extreme to say the least.

May in Cornwall today.

https://t.co/6dbZzNeRKP

What a marked difference to other leaders in the campaign.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The control of the media from the Tory PR team is verging on the extreme to say the least.

May in Cornwall today.

https://t.co/6dbZzNeRKP

What a marked difference to other leaders in the campaign.

I saw this in guardian. Bizarrely, the guardian also had a poll showing public approval rates for individuals and of campaign so far, and believe it or not the public say she is running the best campaign of all parties.

Like i said, its strategy - those spin doctors can be quite effective...!

[ronaldo7]

I saw this in guardian. Bizarrely, the guardian also had a poll showing public approval rates for individuals and of campaign so far, and believe it or not the public say she is running the best campaign of all parties.

Like i said, its strategy - those spin doctors can be quite effective...!

It's common in places like China or North Korea.

So much for transparency eh.:wink:

[ronaldo7]

It looks like Roger Mullin SNP MP, has written to the Electoral commission, and asking them to investigate "serious allegations", on the laundering of money from HSBC, through a company called IPGL, directly into Tory Party HQ.

Interesting times.:greengrin

18482

#ToryDirtyMoney

[Moulin Yarns]

One man went to mow....

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/03/ed-miliband-mowed-a-womans-lawn-to-secure-labour-vote-6612473/

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I see the tories are accusing the SNP of breaking purdah rules by announcing Scottish Govt investment in Glasgow just before the local elections.

Seems a bit suspect, and an expensive way to win Glasgow council at the taxpayer's expense...

[Peevemor]

I see the tories are accusing the SNP of breaking purdah rules by announcing Scottish Govt investment in Glasgow just before the local elections.

Seems a bit suspect, and an expensive way to win Glasgow council at the taxpayer's expense...

Why? It's the Scottish Government who are investing in Glasgown not the SNP.

[Moulin Yarns]

I see the tories are accusing the SNP of breaking purdah rules by announcing Scottish Govt investment in Glasgow just before the local elections.

Seems a bit suspect, and an expensive way to win Glasgow council at the taxpayer's expense...

Let's not invest in jobs and urban regeneration then!

https://news.gov.scot/news/gbp-8-35-million-to-support-urban-regeneration-in-the-heart-of-glasgow

These sort of deals don't happen overnight, this as been in the pipeline for a long time

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Why? It's the Scottish Government who are investing in Glasgown not the SNP.

The minister who signed it off is very much SNP.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Let's not invest in jobs and urban regeneration then!

https://news.gov.scot/news/gbp-8-35-million-to-support-urban-regeneration-in-the-heart-of-glasgow

These sort of deals don't happen overnight, this as been in the pipeline for a long time

I just posted the link, i dont know if it has broken the rules.

Purdah rules are about timing of announcements, not whether or not they should happen. They are designed to stop elected officials using government to influence elections.

[ronaldo7]

I see the tories are accusing the SNP of breaking purdah rules by announcing Scottish Govt investment in Glasgow just before the local elections.

Seems a bit suspect, and an expensive way to win Glasgow council at the taxpayer's expense...

How much tax payers money was spent? You must know?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

How much tax payers money was spent? You must know?

£8.35m according to the SGs own news release.

[ronaldo7]

£8.35m according to the SGs own news release.

That day job takes up a lot of time eh.:greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

£8.35m according to the SGs own news release.

Aye, but the question was how much 'taxpayers money'

The answer, £0.00


SPRUCE (Scottish Partnership for Regeneration in Urban Centres) is a £50 million fund that offers loans and equity investments to revenue generating infrastructure and energy efficiency projects to support regeneration in 13 eligible local authority areas in Scotland.

The Scottish Government established SPRUCE using European Regional Development Funds in conjunction with the JESSICA (Joint European Support for Sustainable Investment in City Areas) programme.



Unless you were meaning those lovely Europeans :wink:

FWIW The Haymarket development got £9.6m of SPRUCE funding

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

That day job takes up a lot of time eh.:greengrin

Avoiding the issue on a technicality.

[ronaldo7]

Avoiding the issue on a technicality.

:faf:

So are you going to tell me how much tax payers cash was used?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

:faf:

So are you going to tell me how much tax payers cash was used?

People can read the SG's own news release and decide for themselves - the money is described as coming from the Scottish Government's SPRUCE fund. Amd given Kevin Stewart is claiming fhe credit for the funding, id say it was taxpayers money.

The Scottish Government
£8.35 million to support urban regeneration in the heart of Glasgow
02/05/17 12:18

£8.35 million to support urban regeneration in the heart of Glasgow


Housing Minister Kevin Stewart today announced investment of £8.35 million from its SPRUCE fund to support the refurbishment of vacant office space in central Glasgow.

It’s a move that will deliver around 71,000 ft2 of much needed new high quality Grade “A” office space for the city as well as create and support hundreds of new jobs.

With total investment expected be around £16.4 million, Tarn Crag Limited (TCL), a subsidiary of commercial property investor Praxis, will refurbish Dalmore House, a landmark building on St Vincent Street. It is expected the refurbished office space will be able to accommodate more than 500 workers.

Construction works have now commenced with the offices due to be ready for lease by October this year.

Kevin Stewart, Minister for Housing said:

“Glasgow has a shortage of high quality office space and this latest investment will increase the city’s stock, making it an even more appealing proposition to locate and do business in.

“The fact that it will support 196 new jobs in construction plus training and apprenticeship places in the city is very welcome news. This is exactly why we have provided additional support for SPRUCE, allowing it to continue to invest in this sort of regeneration project, and helping our urban areas flourish and ultimately support the communities which sustain them. SPRUCE funding can now be accessed for projects right across Scotland and we hope to see further investments during 2017. ”

Gary Roberts, Managing Director at Praxis said:

“We are extremely pleased to have reached agreement with SPRUCE and Chenavari who have also provided investment to deliver this refurbishment in partnership with us and are delighted that both have bought into our vision for the property. Their involvement further bolsters the first class team that we have assembled to deliver the project.”

Background

SPRUCE (Scottish Partnership for Regeneration in Urban Centres) is a £50 million fund that offers loans and equity investments to revenue generating infrastructure and energy efficiency projects which support regeneration outcomes in Scotland. Funding for the Dalmore transaction has come from an additional £15 million injected into SPRUCE by the Scottish Government in the form of 2016/17 Financial Transactions Capital.

Dalmore House is a 26 years old, 70,000 ft2 landmark building on 310 St Vincent Street, Glasgow. TCL will comprehensively refurbish the building to a modern Grade “A” EPC “B” standard over a six month period, with the lettable area being expanded to c71,000 ft2 .

TCL is a 100% subsidiary of Praxis, a UK based commercial property market investor. SPRUCE will be the senior lender to TCL for Dalmore. Further funding has been provided to TCL by AREO S.à.r.l. (“AREO”), a private limited liability company managed by London-based Chenavari Investment Managers (“Chenavari”).

[ronaldo7]

People can read the SG's own news release and decide for themselves - the money is described as coming from the Scottish Government's SPRUCE fund. Amd given Kevin Stewart is claiming fhe credit for the funding, id say it was taxpayers money.

The Scottish Government
£8.35 million to support urban regeneration in the heart of Glasgow
02/05/17 12:18

£8.35 million to support urban regeneration in the heart of Glasgow


Housing Minister Kevin Stewart today announced investment of £8.35 million from its SPRUCE fund to support the refurbishment of vacant office space in central Glasgow.

It’s a move that will deliver around 71,000 ft2 of much needed new high quality Grade “A” office space for the city as well as create and support hundreds of new jobs.

With total investment expected be around £16.4 million, Tarn Crag Limited (TCL), a subsidiary of commercial property investor Praxis, will refurbish Dalmore House, a landmark building on St Vincent Street. It is expected the refurbished office space will be able to accommodate more than 500 workers.

Construction works have now commenced with the offices due to be ready for lease by October this year.

Kevin Stewart, Minister for Housing said:

“Glasgow has a shortage of high quality office space and this latest investment will increase the city’s stock, making it an even more appealing proposition to locate and do business in.

“The fact that it will support 196 new jobs in construction plus training and apprenticeship places in the city is very welcome news. This is exactly why we have provided additional support for SPRUCE, allowing it to continue to invest in this sort of regeneration project, and helping our urban areas flourish and ultimately support the communities which sustain them. SPRUCE funding can now be accessed for projects right across Scotland and we hope to see further investments during 2017. ”

Gary Roberts, Managing Director at Praxis said:

“We are extremely pleased to have reached agreement with SPRUCE and Chenavari who have also provided investment to deliver this refurbishment in partnership with us and are delighted that both have bought into our vision for the property. Their involvement further bolsters the first class team that we have assembled to deliver the project.”

Background

SPRUCE (Scottish Partnership for Regeneration in Urban Centres) is a £50 million fund that offers loans and equity investments to revenue generating infrastructure and energy efficiency projects which support regeneration outcomes in Scotland. Funding for the Dalmore transaction has come from an additional £15 million injected into SPRUCE by the Scottish Government in the form of 2016/17 Financial Transactions Capital.

Dalmore House is a 26 years old, 70,000 ft2 landmark building on 310 St Vincent Street, Glasgow. TCL will comprehensively refurbish the building to a modern Grade “A” EPC “B” standard over a six month period, with the lettable area being expanded to c71,000 ft2 .

TCL is a 100% subsidiary of Praxis, a UK based commercial property market investor. SPRUCE will be the senior lender to TCL for Dalmore. Further funding has been provided to TCL by AREO S.à.r.l. (“AREO”), a private limited liability company managed by London-based Chenavari Investment Managers (“Chenavari”).


That fine bud, but I can see GF has given you the answer in his post above.

You'll be gutted eh.:greengrin

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

That fine bud, but I can see GF has given you the answer in his post above.

You'll be gutted eh.:greengrin

So the £15m injected into the project by the SG as stated above in the form of financial transaction capital. That suggests taxpayers money.

So either the SG are being deliberately disingenuous in their news release, or it is indeed scottish government i.e. taxpayers money.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Aye, but the question was how much 'taxpayers money'

The answer, £0.00



Unless you were meaning those lovely Europeans :wink:

FWIW The Haymarket development got £9.6m of SPRUCE funding

See the news release above.

[ronaldo7]

So the £15m injected into the project by the SG as stated above in the form of financial transaction capital. That suggests taxpayers money.

So either the SG are being deliberately disingenuous in their news release, or it is indeed scottish government i.e. taxpayers money.

You should never assume...

You said it was taxpayers money, but you're just reading a press release. It may have been borrowing, or come from the SFT funds.

You don't know do you?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

You should never assume...

You said it was taxpayers money, but you're just reading a press release. It may have been borrowing, or come from the SFT funds.

You don't know do you?

Ha ha, im reading a news release and taking the Minister, who has said that the SG have funded it, at his word.

You are not suggesting the kevin stewart is untrustworthy are you?

The SG have literally and explicitly said above, that they invested their, i.e. our money into this scheme. There, in black amd white, issued by their own media team, posted on their own website and quoting their own minister.

And still you argue against it.

You are some boy.

Still, im sure you will dismiss this overwhelming evidence that you are indeed wrong, with a pithy one-liner, or glib smiley.

[ronaldo7]

Ha ha, im reading a news release and taking the Minister, who has said that the SG have funded it, at his word.

You are not suggesting the kevin stewart is untrustworthy are you?

The SG have literally and explicitly said above, that they invested their, i.e. our money into this scheme. There, in black amd white, issued by their own media team, posted on their own website and quoting their own minister.

And still you argue against it.

You are some boy.

Still, im sure you will dismiss this overwhelming evidence that you are indeed wrong, with a pithy one-liner, or glib smiley.

Just asked you a question mate.

You can't answer, that's fair enough, I'm used to it.:aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

So the £15m injected into the project by the SG as stated above in the form of financial transaction capital. That suggests taxpayers money.

So either the SG are being deliberately disingenuous in their news release, or it is indeed scottish government i.e. taxpayers money.

The FTC is a direct result of the additional funds allocated to the SG from Westminster, indirectly it is Taxpayers money, from the UK block grant as a result of the Barnett Formula. (Do your research!!)



Funding for the Dalmore transaction has come from an additional £15 million injected into SPRUCE by the Scottish Government in the form of 2016/17 Financial Transactions Capital.


See the news release above.

Where do you think I got my information? :rolleyes: I know of the SPRUCE as a result of working in Local Government.


You should never assume...

You said it was taxpayers money, but you're just reading a press release. It may have been borrowing, or come from the SFT funds.

You don't know do you?

:greengrin


Ha ha, im reading a news release and taking the Minister, who has said that the SG have funded it, at his word.

You are not suggesting the kevin stewart is untrustworthy are you?

The SG have literally and explicitly said above, that they invested their, i.e. our money into this scheme. There, in black amd white, issued by their own media team, posted on their own website and quoting their own minister.

And still you argue against it.

You are some boy.

Still, im sure you will dismiss this overwhelming evidence that you are indeed wrong, with a pithy one-liner, or glib smiley.

SPRUCE, as with other funding bodies, is managed by the SG, other funding sources are managed by other bodies/organisations. As I said, working in Local Government I am aware of lots of funding sources which are usually (not always) match funded to in effect double the amount that a local authority has to spend on capital projects.

Now, I'm away to do my day job (and update the Craig Whyte court case :wink: )

[Geo_1875]

So the £15m injected into the project by the SG as stated above in the form of financial transaction capital. That suggests taxpayers money.

So either the SG are being deliberately disingenuous in their news release, or it is indeed scottish government i.e. taxpayers money.

Why should we worry? It'll be English taxpayers money frittered away via Barnett.

[Moulin Yarns]

Why should we worry? It'll be English taxpayers money frittered away via Barnett.

:agree:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The FTC is a direct result of the additional funds allocated to the SG from Westminster, indirectly it is Taxpayers money, from the UK block grant as a result of the Barnett Formula. (Do




Where do you think I got my information? :rolleyes: I know of the SPRUCE as a result of working in Local Government.



:greengrin



SPRUCE, as with other funding bodies, is managed by the SG, other funding sources are managed by other bodies/organisations. As I said, working in Local Government I am aware of lots of funding sources which are usually (not always) match funded to in effect double the amount that a local authority has to spend on capital projects.

Now, I'm away to do my day job (and update the Craig Whyte court case :wink: )

As an aside i habe enjoyed your updates on that thread.

But, you and ronaldo are going to incredible lengths of obfuscation to avoid admitting that you are wrong. The above post is an incredible attempt.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Just asked you a question mate.

You can't answer, that's fair enough, I'm used to it.:aok:

Are you mature enough to admit you are wrong?

Or will you just hide behind another smiley?

[Moulin Yarns]

As an aside i habe enjoyed your updates on that thread.

But, you and ronaldo are going to incredible lengths of obfuscation to avoid admitting that you are wrong. The above post is an incredible attempt.

You asked if it was tax payers money, and I gave a definitive answer. What is wrong with that? Public funding for Capital projects is very rarely tax funded in the way services are. And in this case, the main funding is from those pesky Europeans and the additional capital funding from Westminster to Holyrood FOR CAPITAL PROJECTS.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

You asked if it was tax payers money, and I gave a definitive answer. What is wrong with that? Public funding for Capital projects is very rarely tax funded in the way services are. And in this case, the main funding is from those pesky Europeans and the additional capital funding from Westminster to Holyrood FOR CAPITAL PROJECTS.

So the Scottish Government are lying in their news release?

[Moulin Yarns]

So the Scottish Government are lying in their news release?

NO

Happy now?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

NO

Happy now?

So it was Scottish Government (i.e. taxpayers) money that they announced. Agreed.

[ronaldo7]

Are you mature enough to admit you are wrong?

Or will you just hide behind another smiley?

As local gov elections are on today, I'm not allowed to answer.:wink:

[ronaldo7]

Another suspicious package sent to SNP MP Douglas Fraser. The package was found to pose no risk.

http://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/15265701.Updated__Suspicious_package_delivered_to_ Dunfermline_and_West_Fife_MP_s_office__Add to dictionary_/

[Moulin Yarns]

So it was Scottish Government (i.e. taxpayers) money that they announced. Agreed.

Wow. You really are being an arse. Where in the press release does it say taxes were used to fund the investment?

No taxpayer money was wasted on the job creation and capital investment in the development.

[Just Alf]

Reading the release its quite clearly from a Scottish Government perspective rather than an SNP banging their drum... I'd take it from that there was cross party support. Unless labour or the Tories were against it and purdah rules prevent us from knowing!



Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[OsloHibs]

Wow. You really are being an arse.

You need to calm down Golden Fleece. When it gets to name calling- it's time to step away from your keyboard.

[marinello59]

Another suspicious package sent to SNP MP Douglas Fraser. The package was found to pose no risk.



Apparently the package contained Willie Rennie.

[makaveli1875]

Another suspicious package sent to SNP MP Douglas Fraser. The package was found to pose no risk.

http://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/15265701.Updated__Suspicious_package_delivered_to_ Dunfermline_and_West_Fife_MP_s_office__Add to dictionary_/

panics over , the suspicious package turned out to be a job lot of saltires and blue face paint

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The Scotsman have picked up on the story about the SNP using government money and announcements to influence the election illegally.

Tories asking for SG permanant secretary to investigate -

Sturgeon facing claims SNP ignored election cash rules
TOM PETERKIN 16:2521:35Thursday 04 May 2017 Share this article 353

Nicola Sturgeon is under mounting pressure over claims the SNP administration attempted to influence voters by ignoring rules around government cash announcements in the run up to the local election.

Ms Sturgeon’s opponents have accused the Scottish Government of using public money to “win” votes.

Earlier this week it emerged that the Scottish Government announced a £8.35m cash injection for urban regeneration in Glasgow less than 48 hours before the polls opened for the council elections. As the public cast their votes in the local election yesterday, the Conservatives drew attention to two more announcements made less than ten days before polling day.

Nine days ago, the Scottish Government announced more than £948,000 to help crofters in rural areas benefit from better housing. The cash is to be shared between 29 crofters.

Shortly afterwards, £1m from a EU fund, administered by the Scottish Government directorate Marine Scotland, was announced for the seafood industry.

The boost came the day after the SNP was involved in a row over the party’s position on fishing. Two SNP politicians –Mike Weir, the Angus MP and party’s chief whip, and Banff and Buchan MP Eilidh Whiteford – backed a campaign to keep the country free of Common Fisheries Policy rules, a cornerstone of Brussels rules. They backed the campaign despite the SNP wanting an independent Scotland to be part of the EU.

Guidelines for civil servants, bound by rules on impartiality, state they must ensure public cash is not used for party political purposes. Particular care must be taken in the weeks ahead of an election – a period known as purdah.

The Conservatives wrote to Scotland’s most senior civil servant Leslie Evans to demand an investigation following the £8.35m announcement for Glasgow.

Conservative MSP and candidate for Aberdeen South Ross Thomson said: “We need a full investigation into how decisions were taken, when, and by whom – and why the impartial civil service supported these announcements during an election period and in apparent contravention of their own guidance. “There are clear rules on how government should behave in the run-up to an election. It looks to many voters that the only rule the SNP has followed is how best to use taxpayers’ cash to win votes.” He added: “It stinks to high heaven – and we need to see some clarity from the First Minister

A Scottish Government spokesman said: “Scottish Government business continues throughout the local government election period. Ministers and officials continue to carry out their functions in the usual way. The pre-election guidance does, however, require officials to take ‘particular care’ about announcements with a specific emphasis on matters which could have a bearing on local election campaigns.

There is no automatic requirement to defer an announcement and officials are required to consider each case on its merits. “We understand there is discussion on other specific instances but we are not in receipt of any complaints. However these instances represented legitimate government activity.”

An SNP spokeswoman said: “This is really desperate stuff from the Tories who seem to think the entire business of government needs to shut down for every single election.”

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/sturgeon-facing-claims-snp-ignored-election-cash-r

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Apparently the package contained Willie Rennie.

This made me laugh!

[Pretty Boy]

Another sterling Corbyn effort last night.

A shambolic incumbent government already gaining 136 counciL seats in England with Labour losing 116. Moderately better in the big cities in Wales but still a piss poor performance. He simply has to go as soon as the inevitable general election humping is confirmed.

[ronaldo7]

panics over , the suspicious package turned out to be a job lot of saltires and blue face paint

:greengrin

[ronaldo7]

Another sterling Corbyn effort last night.

A shambolic incumbent government already gaining 136 counciL seats in England with Labour losing 116. Moderately better in the big cities in Wales but still a piss poor performance. He simply has to go as soon as the inevitable general election humping is confirmed.

Kippers went back to their natural party. Tory gains again.

[Pretty Boy]

Kippers went back to their natural party. Tory gains again.

I certainly don't understand the actions of someone who switches allegiance from Labour to Tory.

However there has always been floating voters and always will be. It's not much over a decade since switching vote from Labour to SNP would have been nigh on unthinkable but it's happened in droves much to the SNPs benefit (I accept there are mitigating circumstances here, among others the SNP shuffling slightly to the left). However Labours biggest issue, in my opinion, is they are chasing a vote that doesn't exist. Listen to Corbyn and his Momentum acolytes and they seem to suggest there is a huge untapped left wing vote out there yet so much evidence suggests otherwise. The Labour left failed spectacularly throughout the 70s and 80s, it was banished to the sidelines throughout the 90s and 00s (Labours most successful period in the modern era) and it is failing even more spectacularly now because there is just not enough support for it. Every poll suggests it, almost every by election and local election since Corbyns rise to power has suggested it and the fact the Tory party continue to make gains at an alarming rate despite their countless failings suggests it again.

I actually dislike Corbyn and his cronies more than the Tories. The Conservative Party are just being themselves. Through being themselves they are leaving open goals for an opposition worth it's salt to tear them apart and be ready to sweep into power at a snap election. Instead of that we have an incompetent fool who is going to oversee Labours worst defeat in a generation and give May and her ilk the mandate to drive through their vision of little Britain that is going to have huge negative effects on my generation and that of my children. Meanwhile the Momentum drones will congratulate each other on 'being right' and decry people like me because I 'just don't understand'. There are many in the Labour Party who need to take a long hard look at themselves and their conduct over the last few years but none more so than the man at the top. A theorist, a fantasist and a man who has facilitated an inevitable landslide Tory victory.

The silver lining is that after May 8th even Corbyn surely can't have the brass neck to hang onto power. When he is sent back to the obscurity he belongs in we can hopefully see an opposition that will begin to hold the Tories to account.

[Moulin Yarns]

Kippers went back to their natural party. Tory gains again.

I'm hearing UKIP have held onto one seat, their BBCQT seat :wink:

[Hibbyradge]

I certainly don't understand the actions of someone who switches allegiance from Labour to Tory.

However there has always been floating voters and always will be. It's not much over a decade since switching vote from Labour to SNP would have been nigh on unthinkable but it's happened in droves much to the SNPs benefit (I accept there are mitigating circumstances here, among others the SNP shuffling slightly to the left). However Labours biggest issue, in my opinion, is they are chasing a vote that doesn't exist. Listen to Corbyn and his Momentum acolytes and they seem to suggest there is a huge untapped left wing vote out there yet so much evidence suggests otherwise. The Labour left failed spectacularly throughout the 70s and 80s, it was banished to the sidelines throughout the 90s and 00s (Labours most successful period in the modern era) and it is failing even more spectacularly now because there is just not enough support for it. Every poll suggests it, almost every by election and local election since Corbyns rise to power has suggested it and the fact the Tory party continue to make gains at an alarming rate despite their countless failings suggests it again.

I actually dislike Corbyn and his cronies more than the Tories. The Conservative Party are just being themselves. Through being themselves they are leaving open goals for an opposition worth it's salt to tear them apart and be ready to sweep into power at a snap election. Instead of that we have an incompetent fool who is going to oversee Labours worst defeat in a generation and give May and her ilk the mandate to drive through their vision of little Britain that is going to have huge negative effects on my generation and that of my children. Meanwhile the Momentum drones will congratulate each other on 'being right' and decry people like me because I 'just don't understand'. There are many in the Labour Party who need to take a long hard look at themselves and their conduct over the last few years but none more so than the man at the top. A theorist, a fantasist and a man who has facilitated an inevitable landslide Tory victory.

The silver lining is that after May 8th even Corbyn surely can't have the brass neck to hang onto power. When he is sent back to the obscurity he belongs in we can hopefully see an opposition that will begin to hold the Tories to account.

I agree with all those sentiments.

However, I'm not sure Corbyn will resign after the GE humping.

"We're building a movement, blah, blah, blah."

[Colr]

I agree with all those sentiments.

However, I'm not sure Corbyn will resign after the GE humping.

"We're building a movement, blah, blah, blah."

I think you may be right.

Someone posted a quote from John McDonnell (whom I find not a little bit scarey) saying he didn't care about the Labour Party it was only a means to promote an agenda.

If Corbyn's of the same mind, he may not step down, as he sees it as his personal vehicle.

[Hibbyradge]

I think you may be right.

Someone posted a quote from John McDonnell (whom I find not a little bit scarey) saying he didn't care about the Labour Party it was only a means to promote an agenda.

If Corbyn's of the same mind, he may not step down, as he sees it as his personal vehicle.

I posted the McDonnell article.

That admission, and the efforts the left are putting in to change Labour's leadership election process, suggest to me that he'll want to stay on until after conference in the autumn.

Whether he can or not may depend on the membership . . . again.

[Colr]

I posted the McDonnell article.

That admission, and the efforts the left are putting in to change Labour's leadership election process, suggest to me that he'll want to stay on until after conference in the autumn.

Whether he can or not may depend on the membership . . . again.

You could end up with a party split but that didn't go very well last time (SDP).

It would still have to be a Labour party with a socialist agenda. Maybe "New Labour"!!!?

[Colr]

Glad to see Andy Burnham winning in Manchester.

Hopefully, he will have something to say to the current leadership!

[Colr]

Ditto for Steve Rotheram in Liverpool.

Another really good MP who doesn't feel he can do anything in the current PLP!!

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

You could end up with a party split but that didn't go very well last time (SDP).

It would still have to be a Labour party with a socialist agenda. Maybe "New Labour"!!!?

Heard a rumour today that the split is being worked on at the moment. Needs to happen imo, although dont know how much truth there is in it.

[Colr]

Heard a rumour today that the split is being worked on at the moment. Needs to happen imo, although dont know how much truth there is in it.

For it to work A LOT of MPs would have to go across.

I think they would find funders and if Mandelson was involved they would have some good organisational experience.

...but if it was anything like the SDP, it will fail.

[Smartie]

Glad to see Andy Burnham winning in Manchester.

Hopefully, he will have something to say to the current leadership!

He should be the leadership, not pissing about cutting ribbons in Manchester.

[Colr]

He should be the leadership, not pissing about cutting ribbons in Manchester.

Yup. I liked what he was saying in his campaign.

Tells you a lot about the current state of Labour and the grip Corbyn and his bully boys have on the party that he feel he can do more outside the parliamentary party than in it.

Similar argument could be put forward for David Milliband.

I notice the Corbyn cheering candidate for Major in the West Midlands lost out to the Tories. I doubt the penny will drop with Corbyn/McDonnell.

[Colr]

I posted the McDonnell article.

That admission, and the efforts the left are putting in to change Labour's leadership election process, suggest to me that he'll want to stay on until after conference in the autumn.

Whether he can or not may depend on the membership . . . again.

Which "non- trot", "non entryist" said, "I’m not in the Labour party because I’m a believer of the Labour party as some supreme body or something God-given or anything like that,”

“It’s a tactic. It’s as simple as that. If it’s no longer a useful vehicle, move on."?

Where's it from?

[Hibbyradge]

Which "non- trot", "non entryist" said, "I’m not in the Labour party because I’m a believer of the Labour party as some supreme body or something God-given or anything like that,”

“It’s a tactic. It’s as simple as that. If it’s no longer a useful vehicle, move on."?

Where's it from?


http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/09/clever-ideological-trick-could-save-labour-party

[Moulin Yarns]

I see Nicola Sturgeon has morphed into Nigel Farage

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39838498

:cheers:

[xyz23jc]

I see Nicola Sturgeon has morphed into Nigel Farage

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39838498

:cheers:

Isn't that just NS drinking Ruth Davidson's pish in an attempt to gain RD's superhuman powers? She's certainly had to listen to a lot of it anyway! :greengrin

[makaveli1875]

I see Nicola Sturgeon has morphed into Nigel Farage

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39838498

:cheers:


She has alot in common with farage

[Hibrandenburg]

She has alot in common with farage

:rolleyes:

[Moulin Yarns]

She has alot in common with farage

http://www.scotsman.com/news/labour-msp-compares-nicola-sturgeon-to-nigel-farage-1-4376204

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20170311/281500751052612

Ay right :rolleyes:

[Hibbyradge]

She has alot in common with farage

Any credibility you had . . .👋