Are you an adult using a youth or child ST?

[CropleyWasGod]

yes as long as they get the minimum wage along with the free ticket.

That might dissuade those on benefits.

[SJM]

That might dissuade those on benefits.

Can you not work 15 hours and still claim them? Sure you used to about 10 years ago.

[TheHarpy76]

How can you guarantee this?

That's usually the way of things.

[pacoluna]

I think the suggestion was the ticket in lieu of payment. Given that (and I'm making an assumption here) they would be doing an hours work at most, the cost of a ticket would work out more than an hours minimum wage. It is a complicated scheme if hibs were to put it in place and they'd need to assess all possibilities, risks, check for any loopholes and anything which might have legal ramifications. Important part would be working with fans and communicating and listening to current season ticket holders to ensure it doesn't create a divide amongst support.

They do this for TITP and glastonbury, Help with luggage, cleaning etc and get free admission for the weekend. However they get their expenses paid for.

[ian cruise]

They do this for TITP and glastonbury, Help with luggage, cleaning etc and get free admission for the weekend. However they get their expenses paid for.

That sounds as good a starting point for the discussion as anything else. Would be good if Hibs could help folk who might not be able to attend and in turn, help generate more goodwill toward the community spirit of the club.

[ALF TUPPER]

Interesting thread and comments.

I dont like the thought of fans ripping Hibs' off by getting in on the cheap. Hope they all get caught out by the Hibs Polis.

Hibs should suspend the Season tickets of everyone deliberately trying to con their way in.

Thought Hibbys were above this.

:rules:

[Forza Fred]

As someone who headed a corruption prevention unit for an organisation with a budget of hundreds of millions of dollars, I have been reading this thread with interest.

It would have been a good tool to illustrate how individual ethics differ.

At the end of the day though, as I understand it, Hibs have made the clear statement that they require people attending matches to hold the appropriate ticket so to speak, irrespective of what one's own thoughts may be on the matter.

The argument put up by some that because other people cheat other industries by some means or other, so it's ok to short pay for a ticket if you can get away with it, is to me worrying.

The statement that nobody loses where shoplifting is involved, is just plain ignorant.

Just as I would not have stolen money from my grannies purse, neither would I cheat the Hibs.

[blackpoolhibs]

That's usually the way of things.

Ah right so you cant guarantee it and are just guessing.

[SunshineOnLeith]

That's usually the way of things.

Usually?

I must have missed all those times Hibs made statements before saying that due to falling revenues the playing budget needs slashed.

[Andy74]

I think there's a slight difference between buying a kids ticket instead of a full price one and using it every week to the odd occasion where someone gives a kids ticket that isn't being used to someone who wouldn't otherwise go.

I've done it, I'm sure many others have too. One of the guys who used it one week enjoyed it and bought a season ticket.

[ian cruise]

I think there's a slight difference between buying a kids ticket instead of a full price one and using it every week to the odd occasion where someone gives a kids ticket that isn't being used to someone who wouldn't otherwise go.

I've done it, I'm sure many others have too. One of the guys who used it one week enjoyed it and bought a season ticket.

Its shades of grey. You could argue that it shouldn't be done at all in a similar way to arguing you shouldn't pass your season ticket to someone when you can't make it. Yes a seat you paid for would sit empty but in theory your depriving the club of the additional revenues from that person paying at the gate. Now that's the black and white way of looking at it, there's no guarantees that person would have gone if they weren't getting the season ticket for free, etc. and this thread has shown that people obviously feel very strongly about where that line lies for them. The interesting stuff for me is the potential discussions with the club about schemes they could run that would help people who are missing out due to financial hardship and would at the same time, help the club in on way or another.

Personally I'd certainly like to see those who abuse the system just because there is a way to abuse it being stopped and I'd hope that those who had accept they got away with it and went on to pay the correct price going forward. I'd not be keen on making a big deal out of it when it comes to light some one is using an incorrect ticket, just ask them to pay the difference and move on.

[TonyStokeprano]

Its shades of grey. You could argue that it shouldn't be done at all in a similar way to arguing you shouldn't pass your season ticket to someone when you can't make it. Yes a seat you paid for would sit empty but in theory your depriving the club of the additional revenues from that person paying at the gate. Now that's the black and white way of looking at it, there's no guarantees that person would have gone if they weren't getting the season ticket for free, etc. and this thread has shown that people obviously feel very strongly about where that line lies for them. The interesting stuff for me is the potential discussions with the club about schemes they could run that would help people who are missing out due to financial hardship and would at the same time, help the club in on way or another.

Personally I'd certainly like to see those who abuse the system just because there is a way to abuse it being stopped and I'd hope that those who had accept they got away with it and went on to pay the correct price going forward. I'd not be keen on making a big deal out of it when it comes to light some one is using an incorrect ticket, just ask them to pay the difference and move on.


My workmate who is fromy Manchester attended 15 games last season and bought a kids ticket everytime, said he wanted a football fix but couldn't afford paying 24 quid due to child maintenance, rent etc, what's better for hibs 100 adults paying for a kids ticket or another 100 empty seats, I went to a few games with him which i paid full price and he had a kids ticket, i didnt feel cheated in any way, hes bought an adult season ticket on the payment plan this year, so it's worked out no bad for us.

[Ken]

My workmate who is fromy Manchester attended 15 games last season and bought a kids ticket everytime, said he wanted a football fix but couldn't afford paying 24 quid due to child maintenance, rent etc, what's better for hibs 100 adults paying for a kids ticket or another 100 empty seats, I went to a few games with him which i paid full price and he had a kids ticket, i didnt feel cheated in any way, hes bought an adult season ticket on the payment plan this year, so it's worked out no bad for us.

So he attended 15 games last season that cost him around £180 whereas I paid £360 to attend 18 league games.

If he has an adult season ticket for the next 5 years, I'll forgive him :-)


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[West lower]

My workmate who is fromy Manchester attended 15 games last season and bought a kids ticket everytime, said he wanted a football fix but couldn't afford paying 24 quid due to child maintenance, rent etc, what's better for hibs 100 adults paying for a kids ticket or another 100 empty seats, I went to a few games with him which i paid full price and he had a kids ticket, i didnt feel cheated in any way, hes bought an adult season ticket on the payment plan this year, so it's worked out no bad for us.

That is just wrong. If we all did that we would have a ***** playing budget and anyone who tries to justify it should have a serious word .

That's ripping the p...h out of our club when we need the cash most.

[Forza Fred]

My workmate who is fromy Manchester attended 15 games last season and bought a kids ticket everytime, said he wanted a football fix but couldn't afford paying 24 quid due to child maintenance, rent etc, what's better for hibs 100 adults paying for a kids ticket or another 100 empty seats, I went to a few games with him which i paid full price and he had a kids ticket, i didnt feel cheated in any way, hes bought an adult season ticket on the payment plan this year, so it's worked out no bad for us.

In my experience such behaviour is not limited to just one dynamic.

Generally, if someone is cheating at gaining 'cheap' entry to one activity, in this case a football game, the behaviour will be repeated across the board..eg...paying 'reduced' prices illegally, or indeed nothing, wherever they can, or at least attempting to...eg train fares, bus fares, entrance to other activities.

It's not a football thing, it's an ethical thing.

[TonyStokeprano]

In my experience such behaviour is not limited to just one dynamic.

Generally, if someone is cheating at gaining 'cheap' entry to one activity, in this case a football game, the behaviour will be repeated across the board..eg...paying 'reduced' prices illegally, or indeed nothing, wherever they can, or at least attempting to...eg train fares, bus fares, entrance to other activities.

It's not a football thing, it's an ethical thing.

Well i cant confirm if he tries to pay reduced prices across the board, i can confirm he paid 1.60 to get on the bus last week if that makes yous feel better. If we can afford full price and are happy to pay it, why let it bother you if another seat that would be empty is being used at a discounted price?

[Forza Fred]

Well i cant confirm if he tries to pay reduced prices across the board, i can confirm he paid 1.60 to get on the bus last week if that makes yous feel better. If we can afford full price and are happy to pay it, why let it bother you if another seat that would be empty is being used at a discounted price?

Yep, it makes me feel better.

[Hermit Crab]

So what will the club do to people that they catch using the wrong ticket? Withdraw it? March them to the ticket office and make them pay for an upgrade or refuse them entry or what? Once they scan the ticket and the turnstiles open they are in and if mr rocksteady isn't paying attention they're away to their seat.

[Scouse Hibee]

So what will the club do to people that they catch using the wrong ticket? Withdraw it? March them to the ticket office and make them pay for an upgrade or refuse them entry or what? Once they scan the ticket and the turnstiles open they are in and if mr rocksteady isn't paying attention they're away to their seat.

If noticed then refuse then entry until they have correct ticket

[Scouse Hibee]

In my experience such behaviour is not limited to just one dynamic.

Generally, if someone is cheating at gaining 'cheap' entry to one activity, in this case a football game, the behaviour will be repeated across the board..eg...paying 'reduced' prices illegally, or indeed nothing, wherever they can, or at least attempting to...eg train fares, bus fares, entrance to other activities.

It's not a football thing, it's an ethical thing.

You're spot on,the same folk will try and rip the pish out of everything they have to pay for and declare it as a badge of honour to their mates.

[easty]

So what will the club do to people that they catch using the wrong ticket? Withdraw it? March them to the ticket office and make them pay for an upgrade or refuse them entry or what? Once they scan the ticket and the turnstiles open they are in and if mr rocksteady isn't paying attention they're away to their seat.

Once caught they'll be stripped naked and forced to walk round the pitch at half time, while Leeann Dempster follows shouting "shame" repeatedly.

[GlesgaeHibby]

So what will the club do to people that they catch using the wrong ticket? Withdraw it? March them to the ticket office and make them pay for an upgrade or refuse them entry or what? Once they scan the ticket and the turnstiles open they are in and if mr rocksteady isn't paying attention they're away to their seat.

Maybe these turnstiles will go back to being manned so it can be policed properly? Don't show the correct student ID etc you don't get entry?

[marinello59]

So what will the club do to people that they catch using the wrong ticket? Withdraw it? March them to the ticket office and make them pay for an upgrade or refuse them entry or what? Once they scan the ticket and the turnstiles open they are in and if mr rocksteady isn't paying attention they're away to their seat.

The system depends on the vast majority of fans doing the decent thing and behaving honestly. So as your post illustrates the club would need to put more expensive measures in place to deal with those who do cheat.
Sadly what it also does is make the chances of the club adopting a price structure to assist those on certain benefits etc much less likely as people will justify using the loopholes that would inevitably exist.

[mutley]

My workmate who is fromy Manchester attended 15 games last season and bought a kids ticket everytime, said he wanted a football fix but couldn't afford paying 24 quid due to child maintenance, rent etc, what's better for hibs 100 adults paying for a kids ticket or another 100 empty seats, I went to a few games with him which i paid full price and he had a kids ticket, i didnt feel cheated in any way, hes bought an adult season ticket on the payment plan this year, so it's worked out no bad for us.

Ok then, by that logic, let's all do it! I feel I am being ripped off paying a full price ST when I can get the same for a fraction of the price by buying kids tickets.

And this "100 adults paying kids tickets is better than 100 empty seats" well why don't we make every seat the same price regardless of age then we have 20,400 seats all the same price of a kids ticket and no one can complain. Because that would help the club right?





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[mutley]

So what will the club do to people that they catch using the wrong ticket? Withdraw it? March them to the ticket office and make them pay for an upgrade or refuse them entry or what? Once they scan the ticket and the turnstiles open they are in and if mr rocksteady isn't paying attention they're away to their seat.

Simple, if they try to gain entry using a ticket you are not entitled to, simple they should be denied entry. It's not rocket science, that the rules and regulations.
If they then choose to return to ticket office and purchase a correct ticket that they are entitled to purchase, then they may proceed.

Or you could shoot them in the face and dump them in a skip, ok maybe that's a tad harsh.

However if nothing gets done about it, all that will happen is more people will do the same. WHY should we pay full price when others don't ?


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[Forza Fred]

Simple, if they try to gain entry using a ticket you are not entitled to, simple they should be denied entry. It's not rocket science, that the rules and regulations.
If they then choose to return to ticket office and purchase a correct ticket that they are entitled to purchase, then they may proceed.

Or you could shoot them in the face and dump them in a skip, ok maybe that's a tad harsh.

However if nothing gets done about it, all that will happen is more people will do the same. WHY should we pay full price when others don't ?


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Because of your personal ethics perhaps?

[pacoluna]

Maybe we can copy Albion rovers initiative in 2014 and introduce a pay what you can Season ticket :wink:

[high bee]

Everyone will have their own viewpoint. I can see both but IMO they are irrelevant to the club.

It's up to Hibs to set the rules, pricing and the consequences. Whatever your viewpoint it's only been allowed to happen because insufficient procedures are in place. We need to make provisions for the world we live in, not the world we wish we lived in.

Hibs have set the price, the age brackets and now they will have to follow through on any action they plan to take for those without a correct ticket. They don't need to publicise the consequences to us, as long as we know it's against the rules then anyone buying the wrong ticket should accept them.

I'm sure they will look to get people to upgrade their ticket rather than ban them and it would be great to have a scheme in place to help those attend that cannot afford it.

[Canon Hannan]

Be gentle here.
Would we rather have 11,000 seats filled with some not paying in the correct manner or 9500 all paying correctly?
Our prices are far too expensive but that is another thread.
The numbers are just for the question and I am not a fraudster buy the way.
I just wish the games were £10 for adults and £5 kids!

[The_Horde]

I'm a concession paying for a full adult. Are hibs going to recommend i pay less? :wink:

[snedzuk]

Once caught they'll be stripped naked and forced to walk round the pitch at half time, while Leeann Dempster follows shouting "shame" repeatedly.

That would get us up to 11000 no problem.

[FranckSuzy]

Well i cant confirm if he tries to pay reduced prices across the board, i can confirm he paid 1.60 to get on the bus last week if that makes yous feel better. If we can afford full price and are happy to pay it, why let it bother you if another seat that would be empty is being used at a discounted price?

I budget to be able to renew my season ticket so therefore I can afford it, as I am an adult who takes responsibility for my actions so only purchase things that I am able to pay for legitimately.

[McD]

Once caught they'll be stripped naked and forced to walk round the pitch at half time, while Leeann Dempster follows shouting "shame" repeatedly.


:top marks

[CropleyWasGod]

Be gentle here.
Would we rather have 11,000 seats filled with some not paying in the correct manner or 9500 all paying correctly?
Our prices are far too expensive but that is another thread.
The numbers are just for the question and I am not a fraudster buy the way.
I just wish the games were £10 for adults and £5 kids!

How many is "some"?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Be gentle here.
Would we rather have 11,000 seats filled with some not paying in the correct manner or 9500 all paying correctly?
Our prices are far too expensive but that is another thread.
The numbers are just for the question and I am not a fraudster buy the way.
I just wish the games were £10 for adults and £5 kids!

So you wouldn't bother if 1500 people cheated OUR club out of revenue?

[Kavinho]

The system depends on the vast majority of fans doing the decent thing and behaving honestly. So as your post illustrates the club would need to put more expensive measures in place to deal with those who do cheat.
Sadly what it also does is make the chances of the club adopting a price structure to assist those on certain benefits etc much less likely as people will justify using the loopholes that would inevitably exist.

There would be a time stamped readout from each turnstyle available showing which ticket beeped through at what exact time. (Presumably/Surely...)

It wouldn't be overly time consuming to run through just the kids STs and cross ref with CCTV images of folk coming through the turnstyle at that precise time/or in that seat during the game.

Blatant discrepancies could be addressed by letter to the corresponding database address on a 3 strikes basis.., potentially linking in with any other ST registered to the same address


That would close off the loophole to the vast majority of exploiters,no?

Also leaves just a little room for a rare hand off to an otherwise would be non attending pal/ supporter.

[paddy1875]

I'd rather bums on seats than Hibs policing this issue. I'm a season ticket holder and it doesn't bother me at all that people still contribute to get into Easter road rather than not attend.

In trying to crack down on this it will cost Hibs more money than it'll make them with costs to stewards in every turnstile. And fans not bothering to go because the ticket price doubles.

I'm not saying it's right but the working man is getting priced out of football nowadays. Times have changed. Everyone who got lifted over by a parent done the club out of money back then, the difference now is people make a contribution, whether it be a child's ticket or anything else. Everyone attending is a Hibs supporter so we shouldn't be to heavy handed on people.

[Ozyhibby]

Once the club start refusing entry, people will start to modify their behaviour. Randomly manning the concession turnstiles a few times a season should be enough to weed out most of the chancers. Nobody wants the embarrassment of being turned away.


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[NAE NOOKIE]

Be gentle here.
Would we rather have 11,000 seats filled with some not paying in the correct manner or 9500 all paying correctly?
Our prices are far too expensive but that is another thread.
The numbers are just for the question and I am not a fraudster buy the way.
I just wish the games were £10 for adults and £5 kids!

From a crowd of 10,000 with half adults and half concessions ( kids, students, OAPs ) that would pay Hibs £75,000

Lets say tax at 5% ........ £3,750
Wages for 16 players and the manager at £1,500 each ( including win bonus :greengrin ) ..... £25,500
2 coaching staff £1,000 each ..... £2,000
Police / stewards ..... £5,000
Other staff costs ...... £5,000
Other running costs EG Leccy ..... £500

Total ...... £41,250 leaving Hibs with £33,750 from that weeks league game.

Out of that ......... Running the stadium during the week, running the training centre during the week, paying the squad players who weren't involved in the game, I highly doubt £33,750 would cover that.

This is all a total guess of course, I would be interested to see how much it does cost Hibs to run the club in an average week during the season ( perhaps its in the accounts and an ITK person can post it ) .... one thing I would bet on is that £75,000 barely covers it.

[RyeSloan]

Once the club start refusing entry, people will start to modify their behaviour. Randomly manning the concession turnstiles a few times a season should be enough to weed out most of the chancers. Nobody wants the embarrassment of being turned away. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly...random crack downs would sort it...would only need to be a couple of times at the start of the season then once or twice after that and people would get the message. Either that or pay two or three stewards to watch individual turnstiles every game. It would be substantially cheaper than having every one manned but still provide a deterrent as no one would know which turnstile would be getting properly monitored.

I'm amazed at some of the responses on here condoning this behaviour, it not just cheating he club it's cheating all the other fans who pay the proper price.

[OsloHibs]

Hibs, along with the Scottish football need to look at the pricing. It is shockingly high.
In Norway, our prices are low compared to our minimum rate of pay. But in Scotland- a ticket is 3 or 4 times the minimum wage.
This is wrong, and it would be nice if Hibs were the club to lead the way.

[Peevemor]

Hibs, along with the Scottish football need to look at the pricing. It is shockingly high.
In Norway, our prices are low compared to our minimum rate of pay. But in Scotland- a ticket is 3 or 4 times the minimum wage.

Scottish teams rely on gate receipts to pay wages. If we reduced prices say by half, we'd be competing with the English 4th tier in terms of player wages/signings.

There's no simple solution.

[Waxy]

Hibs, along with the Scottish football need to look at the pricing. It is shockingly high.
In Norway, our prices are low compared to our minimum rate of pay. But in Scotland- a ticket is 3 or 4 times the minimum wage.
This is wrong, and it would be nice if Hibs were the club to lead the way.
Fine in principle but we go into immediate disadvantage if every other club doesnt immediately follow suit. We certainly are in no position to take that hit.

[green day]

Allow me to address some of your statements


I'd rather bums on seats than Hibs policing this issue. I'm a season ticket holder and it doesn't bother me at all that people still contribute to get into Easter road rather than not attend. It doesn't bother you if someone sitting next to you paid £300 less for their ST??? Fair play, but it bothers me

In trying to crack down on this it will cost Hibs more money than it'll make them with costs to stewards in every turnstile. And fans not bothering to go because the ticket price doubles. "ticket price doubles" - to the real price :wink:

I'm not saying it's right You said it doesn't bother you abovebut the working man is getting priced out of football nowadays. Times have changed. Everyone who got lifted over by a parent done the club out of money back thenwe had gates of 20000+, a few liftovers were accepted and made next to no difference, the difference now is people make a contribution, whether it be a child's ticket or anything else. Everyone attending is a Hibs supporter so we shouldn't be to heavy handed on peoplethey might be hibs fans, but you cant class them all as SUPPORTERS - if they can afford to pay but think that £2-£3 a game is the going rate, they are taking the piss.

If there is a real issue with poverty among a section of the Hibs support, with people who want to watch the game, but cant afford the full fat price, then we should be supporting some kind of KFK initiative for adults, this would ensure that genuine hardship cases are dealt a good hand.

I am sure there are a few in this position, but I am certain that there are a lot who can afford it, but choose to pay the kids rate.

FFS people are freeloading off the club they profess to love :confused::confused:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Scottish teams rely on gate receipts to pay wages. If we reduced prices say by half, we'd be competing with the English 4th tier in terms of player wages/signings.

There's no simple solution.

The majority of clubs are struggling to pay the wages that League 2 clubs can pay as it is.

[GreenLake]

This is an issue easily solved by technology. Perhaps we could do a fundraising page to help the club pay for turnstile upgrades.

[CropleyWasGod]

Hibs, along with the Scottish football need to look at the pricing. It is shockingly high.
In Norway, our prices are low compared to our minimum rate of pay. But in Scotland- a ticket is 3 or 4 times the minimum wage.
This is wrong, and it would be nice if Hibs were the club to lead the way.

... and how would we pay the players that we need to attract?

[CapitalGreen]

This is an issue easily solved by technology. Perhaps we could do a fundraising page to help the club pay for turnstile upgrades.

Upgrades such as?

[ben johnson]

Once caught they'll be stripped naked and forced to walk round the pitch at half time, while Leeann Dempster follows shouting "shame" repeatedly.

Not really necessary. The particular guy I know who does it could just shut his mouth when talking about how to take the Club forward and stop criticising certain players when the mood takes him. £75 a year for a season ticket and he has the answer to all the Clubs ills. To be fair he did buy one for his son at the same rate. He could also stop telling people he does it. That would help.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Upgrades such as?

Snipers.

[Ken]

I can't believe we are 300 posts in and people are still trying to defend the actions of people trying to use a child's ticket to gain entry to Easter Road.

Once in a blue moon fair enough, but all season is taking the p*** out of the club and out of your fellow supporters.

500 fans paying £120 for a season ticket as opposed to £360, equates to a £120k loss (i.e. approx. McGinn's + Boyle's wages for a season) on the basis they should be paying full price

...and in answer to the question would I rather have 9,500 full paying adults or 11,000, I'd go with the 9,500

[Bostonhibby]

Not really necessary. The particular guy I know who does it could just shut his mouth when talking about how to take the Club forward and stop criticising certain players when the mood takes him. £75 a year for a season ticket and he has the answer to all the Clubs ills. To be fair he did buy one for his son at the same rate. He could also stop telling people he does it. That would help.
Sounds like a child trapped in an adults body, either that or a bell end. Give the club his details.

[Glorious St Pat]

So apart from new signage above turnstiles ie adult gate, concession gate and adult & child gate, has anything else changed? Will an adult gate scanner refuse to scan a child ticket? And what's to stop an adult going through the concession gate with a kids ticket?

[Biggie]

quite funny eh...we get all righteous at other clubs cheating antics, etc and here we have our own fans mugging the club off......our club ffs.
JHC

[CapitalGreen]

So apart from new signage above turnstiles ie adult gate, concession gate and adult & child gate, has anything else changed? Will an adult gate scanner refuse to scan a child ticket? And what's to stop an adult going through the concession gate with a kids ticket?

Will an adult gate scanner refuse to scan a child ticket?
Yes

And what's to stop an adult going through the concession gate with a kids ticket?
These gates will be monitored by stewards

[Kavinho]

quite funny eh...we get all righteous at other clubs cheating antics, etc and here we have our own fans mugging the club off......our club ffs.
JHC


Its a a societal issue, and not confined to Hibs.

& its massively different to bumping off charities etc.

[paddy1875]

Allow me to address some of your statements If there is a real issue with poverty among a section of the Hibs support, with people who want to watch the game, but cant afford the full fat price, then we should be supporting some kind of KFK initiative for adults, this would ensure that genuine hardship cases are dealt a good hand. I am sure there are a few in this position, but I am certain that there are a lot who can afford it, but choose to pay the kids rate. FFS people are freeloading off the club they profess to love :confused::confused:

The truth is I'll never know what somebody has paid to gain entry, that's why it won't bother me. Also, your right doubling the price would be the correct price haha no doubt. But some people can't afford it.

When I was getting lifted over the crowd was also nowhere near 20000+ Easter road only held about 15k.

The last part you wrote I agree with. Hibs should introduce something like this for supporters. Duno how they could make it happen but would be a good thing if they could make it work.

[BSEJVT]

I had intended to refrain from further comment on this thread and other than this brief sojourn back into it I will.

It is not right, even once to scam the club by either purchasing or handing over a concession ticket for an adult to gain entry, it is like saying I am not a murderer as I only murdered one person. It is either wrong or right and those trying to salve their consciences by pretending otherwise who are either perpetrating this act or helping to facilitate it are deluding themselves.

I wonder if those involved would find themselves able to apply similar standards to other forms of deception or if theirs is purely a selective blind eye turning to this particular event.

If the latter is the case why are you happy permitting this deception to be perpetuated against Hibs, when the success of initiatives such as HSL tangibly prove that providing more monies to the club can dramatically improve our prospects?

If its the former where do you draw the line and why?

I get that people don't agree with ticket pricing but you have a choice, don't agree don't pay and don't go.

The club have the right to price their product and you have the right to decide whether its a price worth paying or not.

It's why some people shop in Asda (me) and others in M & S, but I certainly wouldn't expect M & S to provide me their products and for me to pay Asda prices.

If I had a mate who was doing such a thing there would only be two possible outcomes:

1) He wouldn't be a mate any longer, if he were purely scamming it

or

2) If he were suffering that level of financial deprivation that he couldn't afford it I would be clubbing together with our other mates and helping him out, if for no other reason than to protect his dignity.

No matter how it is dressed up and whatever motives people apply to it, it is fraud pure and simple and it does my head in to think that firstly there are those that pretend to be Hibs supporters that are defrauding the club and there are others who acquiesce in their doing so and justify it.

I would love everybody who wants to be able to see Hibs to be able to do so and do so honestly, the challenge for the club is to find a way to enable this, if this is indeed possible.

[hibee]

I'm genuinely surprised this is going on as I thought that's what the lights were for at the back of the turnstiles and I've never heard of anyone doing this.

There's always a steward watching when we arrive in the FF but I suppose we're usually quite early so these guys maybe wait until a few mins before kick off when it's busier.

I'd bet that the majority of people doing this are not desperately struggling for cash, they've just found a way to steal money from the club and get away with it so continue to do so.

I don't agree with reducing prices based on income, why should people who work hard and do long hours pay more than others, if I can't afford something in life then I don't buy it, watching football should be no different.

[Lago]

I can't believe we are 300 posts in and people are still trying to defend the actions of people trying to use a child's ticket to gain entry to Easter Road.

Once in a blue moon fair enough, but all season is taking the p*** out of the club and out of your fellow supporters.

500 fans paying £120 for a season ticket as opposed to £360, equates to a £120k loss (i.e. approx. McGinn's + Boyle's wages for a season) on the basis they should be paying full price

...and in answer to the question would I rather have 9,500 full paying adults or 11,000, I'd go with the 9,500
Correct its wrong, plain & simple. Hibs should carry out spot audits of child tickets in use on match days. Doesn't have to be more than say 10 per stand, advertise the fact that these spot checks will take place, anyone caught ejected & ST cancelled.

[allezsauzee]

It's stealing from Hibs simple as that.

[pacoluna]

I'm genuinely surprised this is going on as I thought that's what the lights were for at the back of the turnstiles and I've never heard of anyone doing this.

There's always a steward watching when we arrive in the FF but I suppose we're usually quite early so these guys maybe wait until a few mins before kick off when it's busier.

I'd bet that the majority of people doing this are not desperately struggling for cash, they've just found a way to steal money from the club and get away with it so continue to do so.

I don't agree with reducing prices based on income, why should people who work hard and do long hours pay more than others, if I can't afford something in life then I don't buy it, watching football should be no different.

Football is different though isn't it. Football has an important part to play in society from bringing people of all backgrounds regardless of ethnicity or income. Hibs should absolutely look into catering for those with a relatively poor income or in poverty, The last thing I would want hibs to be is divided by social class.

[Lago]

Football is different though isn't it. Football has an important part to play in society from bringing people of all backgrounds regardless of ethnicity or income. Hibs should absolutely look into catering for those with a relatively poor income or in poverty, The last thing I would want hibs to be is divided by social class.
Oh come on, what in the name of the wee man has ethnicity got to do with scamming hibs out of it's income. Thats just wooly thinking on your part.:confused:

[ben johnson]

Football is different though isn't it. Football has an important part to play in society from bringing people of all backgrounds regardless of ethnicity or income. Hibs should absolutely look into catering for those with a relatively poor income or in poverty, The last thing I would want hibs to be is divided by social class.

There is certainly some great work being done to include children who can't afford to go to the game. If it could be extended to include parents then that should be looked at. My beef is with the guys I know who do it but also scrape together enough money to have fifteen pints pre and post match. One guy I know who has a kids season has managed to get over to Portugal for a two week golfing holiday. In sure there are some deserving cases but there are people taking the p.

[pacoluna]

Oh come on, what in the name of the wee man has ethnicity got to do with scamming hibs out of it's income. Thats just wooly thinking on your part.:confused:

I was responding to his last point!

Of course I don't condone people cheating the club out of money.

My point is Hibs could maybe cater more for those who have a relatively poor income. Unfortunately their is a correlation between ethnicity and lower income in scotland.

I would like to think Hibs is committed to diversity through out all aspects of the club including who attends.

Edit: I do agree with others though that those people who are chancing their luck and scamming the club probably don't fall in the category I mentioned.

[hibee]

Football is different though isn't it. Football has an important part to play in society from bringing people of all backgrounds regardless of ethnicity or income. Hibs should absolutely look into catering for those with a relatively poor income or in poverty, The last thing I would want hibs to be is divided by social class.

I'd imagine the adults willing to use a kids ticket would just get one of the low income people you mentioned to get them a season ticket and they would use that rather than pay the correct price, the problem would just move on to another class of ticket.

[Pete]

I was responding to his last point!

Of course I don't condone people cheating the club out of money.

My point is Hibs could maybe cater more for those who have a relatively poor income. Unfortunately their is a correlation between ethnicity and lower income in scotland.

I would like to think Hibs is committed to diversity through out all aspects of the club including who attends.

Edit: I do agree with others though that those people who are chancing their luck and scamming the club probably don't fall in the category I mentioned.

You'll be pleased to know that we do help children from lower income families attend games and therefore (using your logic) do lots to promote diversity.

The difference is that we don't brag about it.

[pacoluna]

You'll be pleased to know that we do help children from lower income families attend games and therefore (using your logic) do lots to promote diversity.

The difference is that we don't brag about it.

Just children?

[jonny]

I'm a new (adult) season ticket holder along with my old man and my 3 kids. As I'm seperated from the kids ugly mother and she has them every 4th weekend there may occasionally be a game that they can't attend. Is there a simple mechanism that on such an occasion I could pass one or more of their tickets onto a family member or friend and have it upgraded to an adult ticket and pay the difference in price?

[Lago]

I was responding to his last point!

Of course I don't condone people cheating the club out of money.

My point is Hibs could maybe cater more for those who have a relatively poor income. Unfortunately their is a correlation between ethnicity and lower income in scotland.

I would like to think Hibs is committed to diversity through out all aspects of the club including who attends.

Edit: I do agree with others though that those people who are chancing their luck and scamming the club probably don't fall in the category I mentioned.
I agree with the edit of your post, but I would say this, Hibs do a lot in the community & for fans in general, from hibs kids, concessions for the young & the older attendees. They even made accommodation available for school children forced out of their school because of the building closures. Hibs do a lot of unreported work, I am proud of the club & will say again what some 'fans' are doing is stealing, plain & simple.

[pacoluna]

I agree with the edit of your post, but I would say this, Hibs do a lot in the community & for fans in general, from hibs kids, concessions for the young & the older attendees. They even made accommodation available for school children forced out of their school because of the building closures. Hibs do a lot of unreported work, I am proud of the club & will say again what some 'fans' are doing is stealing, plain & simple.

I appreciate this, when I mention diversity though that also includes age. A lot of the great work we do charity wise is for children.

[DR1875]

Easy to solve the problem. Actually I'm surprised they haven't added it for security. Just a small photo on the membership card. All other areas that need proof of I.D have it. Would be quite embarrassing when a copper asks to see the card and it has a five year old child and your a forty year adult!

[BSEJVT]

I appreciate this, when I mention diversity though that also includes age. A lot of the great work we do charity wise is for children.

Don't we also help support the Football memories project for older people?

I think the simple truth is that there are so many deserving causes and its impossible to support all.

Folk currently scamming the club paying their fare share would help us do more.

I am extremely proud of the clubs recent efforts at Community engagement and look forward to seeing that further develop in the months and years ahead.

I think the clubs founding fathers would be also.

[Mibbes Aye]

I appreciate this, when I mention diversity though that also includes age. A lot of the great work we do charity wise is for children.

I think the Gamechanger work, while it receives recognition, perhaps isn't appreciated just enough for the scale of ambition and what it's setting out to achieve in terms of sustained and lasting positive change, especially around adult mental health.

The children's stuff has a good profile and it's a bit easier to see tangible results, certainly earlier, but the work that's gone on between the club, HCF, NHS Lothian and other partners in relation to adults is laudable.

[Lago]

:top marks
Don't we also help support the Football memories project for older people?

I think the simple truth is that there are so many deserving causes and its impossible to support all.

Folk currently scamming the club paying their fare share would help us do more.

I am extremely proud of the clubs recent efforts at Community engagement and look forward to seeing that further develop in the months and years ahead.

I think the clubs founding fathers would be also.

[jgl07]

The club haven't helped themselves on this issue.

Other clubs have a light that flashes when the card is scanned. This is a different colour for concession tickets than for full price ones. Random checks should identify anyone fiddling.

[TonyStokeprano]

So you wouldn't bother if 1500 people cheated OUR club out of revenue?

Your saying cheating the club, what is better for hibs though ? 1500 empty seats or 1500 x £12 or whatever a kids ticket costs ?

Also don't know why folk think getting a lift over the gate and paying nothing wasn't as bad because crowds were big ? But are disgusted by this, at least today's "fraudsters" are making a contribution!

[EH54]

The club haven't helped themselves on this issue.

Other clubs have a light that flashes when the card is scanned. This is a different colour for concession tickets than for full price ones. Random checks should identify anyone fiddling.

We do on the other side of the turnstile there is a Red Green and Amber light Amber for concession tickets Green for Adult..they do in the East anyway not sure about other places in ground

[blackpoolhibs]

I remember being gutted when i was bigger than the men i was asking for a lift over were. :greengrin



No Moray i was not only 4 years old. :greengrin

[ancient hibee]

Your saying cheating the club, what is better for hibs though ? 1500 empty seats or 1500 x £12 or whatever a kids ticket costs ?

Also don't know why folk think getting a lift over the gate and paying nothing wasn't as bad because crowds were big ? But are disgusted by this, at least today's "fraudsters" are making a contribution!


You
really think a kid getting lifted over for a game in the old days is the same as an adult defrauding the club for a season?

[CropleyWasGod]

Your saying cheating the club, what is better for hibs though ? 1500 empty seats or 1500 x £12 or whatever a kids ticket costs ?

Also don't know why folk think getting a lift over the gate and paying nothing wasn't as bad because crowds were big ? But are disgusted by this, at least today's "fraudsters" are making a contribution!

The difference is that the lift-over was done with the knowledge and consent of the club, through the turnstile operator.

If the club condone the fraudulent use of ST's, before long everyone will be doing it.

[TonyStokeprano]

The difference is that the lift-over was done with the knowledge and consent of the club, through the turnstile operator.

If the club condone the fraudulent use of ST's, before long everyone will be doing it.

😂😂😂😂 I wasn't alive when yous were doing this, but good to know we used to tell folk to get a lift over instead of paying!!

[SunshineOnLeith]

The club haven't helped themselves on this issue.

Other clubs have a light that flashes when the card is scanned. This is a different colour for concession tickets than for full price ones. Random checks should identify anyone fiddling.

That's exactly what Hibs have.

[BSEJVT]

I remember being gutted when i was bigger than the men i was asking for a lift over were. :greengrin

You were no doubt a big laddie at 6 though BH:wink:

[CapitalGreen]

😂😂😂😂 I wasn't alive when yous were doing this, but good to know we used to tell folk to get a lift over instead of paying!!

What's your thoughts on Benefit Cheats?

Do you see a difference between people who fraudulently claim benefits from the state and those who fraudulently obtain tickets from Hibernian?

[lyonhibs]

The difference is that the lift-over was done with the knowledge and consent of the club, through the turnstile operator.

If the club condone the fraudulent use of ST's, before long everyone will be doing it.

So to bring back the good old days, should we make under 6s free or something?

No doubt in my mind it's wrong and I've never done it myself, more out of a sense of self respect and the embarrassment factor of getting rumbled was always way too strong.

But Hibs do need to look at creative ways of helping those in genuine financial straits, as opposed to chancing bassas, with attending games. Perhaps a Hibs Kids style scheme where people meeting criteria got a fixed number of games per season at a reduced rate and had to prove, when buying the tickets, that they still met the criteria as set out at the beginning of the season.

What those criteria might be is a bit of a toughie.

As long as we're still charging £22 to watch is play in a half empty stadium against Dumbarton et al, the temptation is always going to be there.

[BoltonHibee]

I remember being gutted when i was bigger than the men i was asking for a lift over were. :greengrin



No Moray i was not only 4 years old. :greengrin

You were a two man lift, even at 4!!

[blackpoolhibs]

You were no doubt a big laddie at 6 though BH:wink:

I cant remember exactly when i stopped being lifted over, but i'd guess i was maybe 13? :greengrin

Nobody seemed to bother, in fact climbing in near the dunbar end was the other option if you had no money in those days. :greengrin

[TonyStokeprano]

What's your thoughts on Benefit Cheats?

Do you see a difference between people who fraudulently claim benefits from the state and those who fraudulently obtain tickets from Hibernian?

Yeah I do view them different thanks. I don't give a **** if someone at a student night in a nightclub isn't a student but is getting cheap drink and stealing from the club owner doesn't bother me. Each to their own!!

[Jack]

Yeah I do view them different thanks. I don't give a **** if someone at a student night in a nightclub isn't a student but is getting cheap drink and stealing from the club owner doesn't bother me. Each to their own!!

What about if anyone stole from you?

[SJM]

Why would anyone steal from something or someone the love? No morals at all. Hope they all get caught!! Wee ladies just past 16 who cannae really afford it fair enough, I done it a few times at away games up until I was 18 but grown adults ripping off their club? Can't comprehend that.

[CapitalGreen]

Yeah I do view them different thanks. I don't give a **** if someone at a student night in a nightclub isn't a student but is getting cheap drink and stealing from the club owner doesn't bother me. Each to their own!!

Who mentioned anything about nightclubs? This about people defrauding Hibernian FC, the club the profess to support.

[TonyStokeprano]

Who mentioned anything about nightclubs? This about people defrauding Hibernian FC, the club the profess to support.

Because someone asked me my views on benefit cheats? And I included that in my response ? I think it's funny that folk that used to sneak in are upset some folk are paying something to get in! Hope that clears sit up for you. It's fraud but the club are also getting money they probably wouldn't get so it doesn't bother me, it bothers you that's fine. I'll have my say on it like everyone else!

[SJM]

Because someone asked me my views on benefit cheats? And I included that in my response ? I think it's funny that folk that used to sneak in are upset some folk are paying something to get in! Hope that clears sit up for you. It's fraud but the club are also getting money they probably wouldn't get so it doesn't bother me, it bothers you that's fine. I'll have my say on it like everyone else!

There's a massive massive difference off a wee school laddie back in the day getting lifted over off his old man than it is from an every day run of the mill worker ripping off the club to get in. You must be able to see that?

For what it's worth, each to their own I just understand the mentality.

[TonyStokeprano]

Yeah the difference is the fraudelent adult is still contributing some cash and the wee laddie isn't, should we let all kids in free now ?

[SJM]

Yeah the difference is the fraudelent adult is still contributing some cash and the wee laddie isn't, should we let all kids in free now ?

It's changed days now though and the club need all the money they can't get.

You can't seriously be saying that's it's sound for adults to rip off the club whilst earning a decent living because wee laddies got lift over 40/50 years ago?

[Mr White]

should we let all kids in free now ?

Yes I think we should up to age 10 or 12. St Johnstone do it and I think overall the club would benefit long term if we did too.

[TonyStokeprano]

So the club didnt need money before ? Maybe that's why we nearly went bust because yous all sneaked in instead of paying kids prices

[SJM]

So the club didnt need money before ? Maybe that's why we nearly went bust because yous all sneaked in instead of paying kids prices

I didn't m8, long before my time. I'm talking about here and now and if you think it's okay that adults who have money rip off the club then fair dos.

[Mr White]

Maybe that's why we nearly went bust

It isn't though.

[Alfred E Newman]

Your saying cheating the club, what is better for hibs though ? 1500 empty seats or 1500 x £12 or whatever a kids ticket costs ?

Also don't know why folk think getting a lift over the gate and paying nothing wasn't as bad because crowds were big ? But are disgusted by this, at least today's "fraudsters" are making a contribution!

By your logic, why should anyone buy a full price ticket. What a ridiculous post.

[Itsnoteasy]

Yes I think we should up to age 10 or 12. St Johnstone do it and I think overall the club would benefit long term if we did too.

Free season tickets for U12's accompanied by adult at Dunfermline FC

[TonyStokeprano]

By your logic, why should anyone buy a full price ticket. What a ridiculous post.

Okay if someone can tell how 1500 empty seats is better than 1500 12 quids il maybe change my mind.

[TonyStokeprano]

It's changed days now though and the club need all the money they can't get.

You can't seriously be saying that's it's sound for adults to rip off the club whilst earning a decent living because wee laddies got lift over 40/50 years ago?

Yeah folk that admitted ripping the club off in the past by getting a lift over are saying it's wrong now, they paid nothing these guys are paying something, why did folks dad's etc lift them over and not pay ? I think use should pay hibs all the money back for the games yous sneaked into, and it should be paid at today's prices !

[West lower]

Okay if someone can tell how 1500 empty seats is better than 1500 12 quids il maybe change my mind.

Because if the club knowingly allows this to happen then morally they have to make all season tickets the same low price. This will ultimately screw our playing budget and probably condemn us to this pish league for longer than any of us wish.
Your suggestion that young barns being lifted over the turnstiles could have played a part in our club nearly going out of business is either fabulous trolling or a totally lack of knowledge of what was happening at the time. Or both.

[Mr White]

Yeah folk that admitted ripping the club off in the past by getting a lift over are saying it's wrong now, they paid nothing these guys are paying something, why did folks dad's etc lift them over and not pay ? I think use should pay hibs all the money back for the games yous sneaked into, and it should be paid at today's prices !
It wasn't sneaking in though. It was the equivalent of saints and the pars letting kids in free now. It was the done thing not an attempt to cheat a saving from the club.

[Green Fish]

Cards on the table, I've done it once. My two younger kids have been ST holders for 5 years plus. Last minute decision to go to the derby when Farid made it 2-0, the queue was huge when I arrived so i used one to get in with my son to get in for the start of the game. I felt terrible.

A bit hypocritical I know but I am genuinely shocked that we have folk on our books that do this week in week out.



Sent from my E2303 using Tapatalk

[TonyStokeprano]

It wasn't sneaking in though. It was the equivalent of saints and the pars letting kids in free now. It was the done thing not an attempt to cheat a saving from the club.

Why did they not just let kids through the turnstile for free then instead of forcing them to be lifted over ? Seems weird they let folk In for free but only if they go over the gate lol

[Scouse Hibee]

Okay if someone can tell how 1500 empty seats is better than 1500 12 quids il maybe change my mind.

What a daft response to a real issue at the club. I guess you would be happy if your employer decided to pay you half your normal salary this month.Half is better than nothing eh?

[Mr White]

Why did they not just let kids through the turnstile for free then instead of forcing them to be lifted over ? Seems weird they let folk In for free but only if they go over the gate lol

I don't know but it was done with the club's consent though. Which destroys it's usefulness as a comparison for anyone wishing to defend the actions of people ripping hibs off in 2016 :aok:

[Hermit Crab]

What a daft response to a real issue at the club. I guess you would be happy if your employer decided to pay you half your normal salary this month.Half is better than nothing eh?


:tee hee:

[Hermit Crab]

So did anyone on here actually get stopped from entering with the ground wrong ticket? If so what actually happened?

[CropleyWasGod]

Okay if someone can tell how 1500 empty seats is better than 1500 12 quids il maybe change my mind.
I told you earlier, but you ignored it.

If the club allow that to happen, then everyone else will try it. It's a short - sighted strategy.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

Yeah folk that admitted ripping the club off in the past by getting a lift over are saying it's wrong now, they paid nothing these guys are paying something, why did folks dad's etc lift them over and not pay ? I think use should pay hibs all the money back for the games yous sneaked into, and it should be paid at today's prices !
Why?

The club condoned it.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Itsnoteasy]

Why did they not just let kids through the turnstile for free then instead of forcing them to be lifted over ? Seems weird they let folk In for free but only if they go over the gate lol

Agree with your point. It was probably for tax reasons. Also back in the day when it was cash only at gates do you think clubs would say what the actual attendance was

[GreenLake]

Upgrades such as?


I think these (http://www.skidata.com/fileadmin/user_upload/corporate/downloads/products/mountain/freemotion-gate/Freemotion-Basic-2-1-en.pdf) would be beyond our means but a barcode reader system with video recording would be able to spot persistent offenders or at least weed out those using season tickets. A single individual could review the video to identify ticket abusers.

Automated systems are already here for ski resorts but they rake in a huge amount for lift passes and can afford to pay for such technology. Prices will come down eventually.

Eventually hand scanners will identify yams trying to sneak in and watch entertaining football.

[TonyStokeprano]

What a daft response to a real issue at the club. I guess you would be happy if your employer decided to pay you half your normal salary this month.Half is better than nothing eh?

I pay myself pal

[TonyStokeprano]

Why?

The club condoned it.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

So I'm guessing we didn't sell kids tickets or have concession prices back then?

[CropleyWasGod]

So I'm guessing we didn't sell kids tickets or have concession prices back then?

We rarely had tickets :greengrin

There was a "boy's gate", with reduced prices. Some people chose to pay the price, others chose not to. The latter would lift their boy over, as long as there wasn't a grumpy get on the turnstile.

[Scouse Hibee]

I pay myself pal

The point still stands.

[TonyStokeprano]

We rarely had tickets :greengrin

There was a "boy's gate", with reduced prices. Some people chose to pay the price, others chose not to. The latter would lift their boy over, as long as there wasn't a grumpy get on the turnstile.

Exact same as refusing to pay full price then

[CropleyWasGod]

Exact same as refusing to pay full price then

..with one vital difference, as you've been told. It was with the consent of the club.

[Mr White]

Exact same as refusing to pay full price then

Only comparable to this situation in that the club eventually cracked down on it. If that's the best defence going for people who buy cheaper tickets that they're not entitled to then it really has no defence at all. It's obvious that you already know that though.

[SunshineOnLeith]

We rarely had tickets :greengrin

There was a "boy's gate", with reduced prices. Some people chose to pay the price, others chose not to. The latter would lift their boy over, as long as there wasn't a grumpy get on the turnstile.

Unless I'm missing something, that's not the club consenting, that's the turnstile operator turning a blind eye. If your friend works at Cineworld and gives you a concession rate into the cinema even though you're not entitled, that's not Cineworld consenting to you ripping them off.

Not every employee of Hibs has the ability to "consent" to things on behalf of the club.

[Mr White]

Unless I'm missing something, that's not the club consenting, that's the turnstile operator turning a blind eye. If your friend works at Cineworld and gives you a concession rate into the cinema even though you're not entitled, that's not Cineworld consenting to you ripping them off.

Not every employee of Hibs has the ability to "consent" to things on behalf of the club.

True but it went on for so long with the knowledge of the clubs that it effectively was with their consent. It was way before my time but my understanding is that it was to encourage youngsters to get in the habit of attending games with the understanding they would pay adult prices when older. Set against the way finances worked in football until the mid 60s it really has zero relevance to the issue that the club are attempting to eradicate today. In the 21st century.

[SJM]

Yeah folk that admitted ripping the club off in the past by getting a lift over are saying it's wrong now, they paid nothing these guys are paying something, why did folks dad's etc lift them over and not pay ? I think use should pay hibs all the money back for the games yous sneaked into, and it should be paid at today's prices !

Why would I pay anything back considering I've never done that. If you want to do it all the time and kid on you support the club it's your issue Tony mate. That's the third time I've said I wasn't even born back then and you keep using "you" "use" and "yous". If you scam the club you won't get the sound wee feeling I get knowing I've bought another season ticket and backed the club which is fair do's, your choice, I just don't understand people my age doing it. Something I can't say regarding wee laddies 40 years ago getting let in because I wasn't there. I'm not going to start paying half of what I do now tho with the reasoning wee laddies got in for **** all back when my parents where kids though.

[CropleyWasGod]

Unless I'm missing something, that's not the club consenting, that's the turnstile operator turning a blind eye. If your friend works at Cineworld and gives you a concession rate into the cinema even though you're not entitled, that's not Cineworld consenting to you ripping them off.

Not every employee of Hibs has the ability to "consent" to things on behalf of the club.

It was a widespread practice, which the club had to be aware of.

[Speedy]

Easy to solve the problem. Actually I'm surprised they haven't added it for security. Just a small photo on the membership card. All other areas that need proof of I.D have it. Would be quite embarrassing when a copper asks to see the card and it has a five year old child and your a forty year adult!

Best post on the thread

[SunshineOnLeith]

True but it went on for so long with the knowledge of the clubs that it effectively was with their consent. It was way before my time but my understanding is that it was to encourage youngsters to get in the habit of attending games with the understanding they would pay adult prices when older. Set against the way finances worked in football until the mid 60s it really has zero relevance to the issue that the club are attempting to eradicate today. In the 21st century.

On the point of longevity, people paying lower prices than they should has been going on for at least 12 or 13 years, from my own experience of attending games. I'm sure the club are, and long have been, aware of it. So if consent can be inferred from a long period of inaction...

I don't see what "the way finances work" has to do with anything, if we're discussing the rights/wrongs of it. Either getting in for less than the ticket price applicable to you is unacceptable or it isn't.

[SunshineOnLeith]

It was a widespread practice, which the club had to be aware of.

So is, for example, using an out of date student card, or a 17 year old paying the u-16 price at the gate.

[Mr White]

On the point of longevity, people paying lower prices than they should has been going on for at least 12 or 13 years, from my own experience of attending games. I'm sure the club are, and long have been, aware of it. So if consent can be inferred from a long period of inaction...

I don't see what "the way finances work" has to do with anything, if we're discussing the rights/wrongs of it. Either getting in for less than the ticket price applicable to you is unacceptable or it isn't.

I don't agree that's comparable. The rise in wages for players in the sixties and again post bosman mean it's such a different environment financially for clubs these days that they have to maximise revenue from gate receipts. The fact that the traffic light system was installed with the automated turnstiles suggests this is not the first step being taken to address ticket abuse. The fact is the lift over thing was at one point deemed widely acceptable. What's being discussed now has never been acceptable. It's nonsense to suggest otherwise. I'd reiterate that comparing the two only highlights that there is no defence for the current abuse being made of the system.

[Andy74]

Just another wee point by to add.

I'm sure loads of us adults have bought season tickets for our kids who actually rarely go. If once or twice a season an adult who wouldn't go otherwise uses it then so what?

Hibs will be doing okay from kids tickets rarely used. The response here needs to be proportionate and not cause more issues than it seeks to solve.

I keep the kid ticket going because someone can use it now and again and I can also get an extra ticket for big games. If Hibs start to get too precious about these things then they lose the season ticket sales.

[Eyrie]

I pay myself pal

I presume that means you're self employed. So your customers pay you, and they should only pay you half price because that's better than them not paying you.

[blackpoolhibs]

It was a widespread practice, which the club had to be aware of.

:agree: I got lift overs at away games too, it was a national thing where all the clubs knew it was going on.

[hibbysam]

:agree: I got lift overs at away games too, it was a national thing where all the clubs knew it was going on.

Doesn't make it right however. Nor, is it right that people can buy concession tickets now.

The club knows this goes on, hence why they are eventually doing something about it.

Both cases done the club out of money, both cases are morally wrong.

[blackpoolhibs]

Doesn't make it right however. Nor, is it right that people can buy concession tickets now.

The club knows this goes on, hence why they are eventually doing something about it.

Both cases done the club out of money, both cases are morally wrong.

But it was right in those days, if it wasn't ALL the clubs would have put a stop to it? It went on for years and all the clubs knew about it.

[Mr White]

A lot of things that went on in football 50 years ago aren't acceptable these days. Times change. If i go to the Brondby game with a huge carry out, pish on the people in front of me (if i haven't already been turned away for my blue bag) then chuck a few golf balls with 4 inch nails through them into the away end, I'll get on ok right? I mean if folk did it in the 60's what's the problem?

[Alfred E Newman]

Why did they not just let kids through the turnstile for free then instead of forcing them to be lifted over ? Seems weird they let folk In for free but only if they go over the gate lol

I lifted my son over when I started taking him at 5 or 6 years old.
40 years on he will have spent thousands of pounds on season tickets.
I am all in favour of letting kids in for next to nothing but not if they grow up to rip the club off by passing themselves off as a concession.

[hibbysam]

A lot of things that went on in football 50 years ago aren't acceptable these days. Times change. If i go to the Brondby game with a huge carry out, pish on the people in front of me (if i haven't already been turned away for my blue bag) then chuck a few golf balls with 4 inch nails through them into the away end, I'll get on ok right? I mean if folk did it in the 60's what's the problem?

The argument isn't "They did it then, we can do it now"

The argument is the same people who thought it was ok to rip clubs off then, are totally against it now.

[Albanian Hibs]

Just another wee point by to add.

I'm sure loads of us adults have bought season tickets for our kids who actually rarely go. If once or twice a season an adult who wouldn't go otherwise uses it then so what?

Hibs will be doing okay from kids tickets rarely used. The response here needs to be proportionate and not cause more issues than it seeks to solve.

I keep the kid ticket going because someone can use it now and again and I can also get an extra ticket for big games. If Hibs start to get too precious about these things then they lose the season ticket sales.

Good post and we do the same. Got a child ticket for my son who goes to a few games a season. Guarenteed an extra ticket for big games.

[TonyStokeprano]

I lifted my son over when I started taking him at 5 or 6 years old.
40 years on he will have spent thousands of pounds on season tickets.
I am all in favour of letting kids in for next to nothing but not if they grow up to rip the club off by passing themselves off as a concession.

Well i gave an example of a guy who used kids tickets last season and has now purchased an adult season ticket!

So if he buys a season ticket for next ten seasons will you let him off with last seasons child tickets since its benefited hibs in the long run ?

Your admitting you used to rip hibs off by sneaking folk in but your upset that folk are paying something to get in.

[Mr White]

The argument is the same people who thought it was ok to rip clubs off then, are totally against it now.

Which fails on the fact that clubs weren't being ripped off then. No measures were required to make the saving, no boxes wrongly ticked or forms filled out claiming an individual qualified for something that they weren't entitled to. Children being allowed in for free is not the same as adults lying about their age or status.

I'm not old enough to have been lifted over and i think abusing the system to make a saving is wrong so feel free to direct any counter arguments to me rather than anyone who could be accused of hypocrisy on the subject.

[TonyStokeprano]

The argument isn't "They did it then, we can do it now"

The argument is the same people who thought it was ok to rip clubs off then, are totally against it now.

Spot on sam

[Mr White]

Spot on sam

It's not spot on at all its flawed. But it suits the position you've adopted on the subject. Which is of course also flawed.

[TonyStokeprano]

I don't agree that's comparable. The rise in wages for players in the sixties and again post bosman mean it's such a different environment financially for clubs these days that they have to maximise revenue from gate receipts. The fact that the traffic light system was installed with the automated turnstiles suggests this is not the first step being taken to address ticket abuse. The fact is the lift over thing was at one point deemed widely acceptable. What's being discussed now has never been acceptable. It's nonsense to suggest otherwise. I'd reiterate that comparing the two only highlights that there is no defence for the current abuse being made of the system.
Is your answer to everything that it's not comparable , it clearly is its two different ways of getting into a football match a discount one absolutely free and one half price, seems on this board that sneaking in is better than paying for a kids ticket, your talk about players wages il say it again, how can an empty seat pay a wage??

[Speedy]

Which fails on the fact that clubs weren't being ripped off then. No measures were required to make the saving, no boxes wrongly ticked or forms filled out claiming an individual qualified for something that they weren't entitled to. Children being allowed in for free is not the same as adults lying about their age or status.

I'm not old enough to have been lifted over and i think abusing the system to make a saving is wrong so feel free to direct any counter arguments to me rather than anyone who could be accused of hypocrisy on the subject.

Depending on where you draw the line it could be considered the same thing.

Similar to using another adult's ST v a non attending kid's ST v buying a concession as a walk up. Some people will be against all, some will be fine with all, some will be in the middle.

[TonyStokeprano]

It's not spot on at all its flawed. But it suits the position you've adopted on the subject. Which is of course also flawed.

Folk have been using kids tickets for years so maybe everyone thought it was widely accepted just like the lifting over the gate! How can anyone say it's okay to go in for nothing but paying something is theft and fraud!!!

[Mr White]

Is your answer to everything that it's not comparable , it clearly is its two different ways of getting into a football match a discount one absolutely free and one half price, seems on this board that sneaking in is better than paying for a kids ticket, your talk about players wages il say it again, how can an empty seat pay a wage??
We could pay more wages if everyone paid the going rate. The more this goes on the less hibs can pay.

I also don't believe everyone doing this is doing so because they couldn't afford to attend otherwise. The biggest cheapskate I know is a pilot whose wife is a doctor. Some of the petty savings I've witnessed him try to make are unreal for a man with his income. Some people hate to pay the going rate and feel victorious in avoiding doing so.

Btw the fact it's not comparable should be fairly obvious given the 50 year gap inbetween the examples being used.

[marinello59]

Folk have been using kids tickets for years so maybe everyone thought it was widely accepted just like the lifting over the gate! How can anyone say it's okay to go in for nothing but paying something is theft and fraud!!!

Maybe because pretending to be a child in order to get in at a cheaper price actually is theft and fraud? :greengrin

[TonyStokeprano]

Why would I pay anything back considering I've never done that. If you want to do it all the time and kid on you support the club it's your issue Tony mate. That's the third time I've said I wasn't even born back then and you keep using "you" "use" and "yous". If you scam the club you won't get the sound wee feeling I get knowing I've bought another season ticket and backed the club which is fair do's, your choice, I just don't understand people my age doing it. Something I can't say regarding wee laddies 40 years ago getting let in because I wasn't there. I'm not going to start paying half of what I do now tho with the reasoning wee laddies got in for **** all back when my parents where kids though.

I was referring to the guys that said they'd been lifted over and it wasn't a problem but this was,I can give you my login details for the hibs website if you want to go and check that my tickets last season were adult ones ? I'm no ripping hibs off and I'd still rather we had an extra 8000 people of any age paying a fiver tenner whatever they can afford than empty seats!!

[TonyStokeprano]

Maybe because pretending to be a child in order to get in at a cheaper price actually is theft and fraud? :greengrin

So what was the sneaking in theft and trespassing ?

[Mr White]

So what was the sneaking in theft and trespassing ?

Difficult to prosecute due to age of the offender :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

So what was the sneaking in theft and trespassing ?

Talk about sticking to your guns :greengrin

Tell me, out of interest, what's your view on an adult buying a concession when they could in fact afford full price?

[marinello59]

So what was the sneaking in theft and trespassing ?

I haven't commented on that.
Let's just forget the whataboutery for a second. Is a grown man pretending to be a child for his own financial gain theft or not?

[TonyStokeprano]

Why did they have to lift over then lol why sneak in if it was free ? I'm sure half the folk sneaking in back then we're over 18 aswell, from what I've heard anyway there was plenty that weren't kids !

[TonyStokeprano]

I haven't commented on that.
Let's just forget the whataboutery for a second. Is a grown man pretending to be a child for his own financial gain theft or not?

Is a grown man lifting his kid over a gate instead of paying to take him through it theft ?

[marinello59]

Is a grown man lifting his kid over a gate instead of paying to take him through it theft ?

Back to the whataboutery then. As I said, I haven't commented on something that happened the past, we are talking about a something that is happening now.
I asked you a simple question which you seem determined to avoid. Care to give an answer?

[TonyStokeprano]

Because I was debating with other folk about how it was okay in the past to rip off hibs but not now, so I like to know the difference between the two, is that okay?

[ancient hibee]

Back in the 50s early 60s Hibs used to open the gates about 15 minutes after half time and anyone could walk in.The idea was that youngsters could go along after playing their own game earlier in the afternoon.

[green day]

Because I was debating with other folk about how it was okay in the past to rip off hibs but not now, so I like to know the difference between the two, is that okay?

Because lifting kids over was common practice and deemed ok back then.

World of difference between that and knowingly buying a child's ST in 2016 for £300 less than an adult one and ripping your club off.

Clear?

[TonyStokeprano]

Because lifting kids over was common practice and deemed then.

World of difference between that and knowingly buying a child's ST in 2016 for £300 less than an adult one and ripping your club off.

Clear?
Yeah and adults paying kids prices has been happening for years therefore it's a common practice aswell

[marinello59]

Because I was debating with other folk about how it was okay in the past to rip off hibs but not now, so I like to know the difference between the two, is that okay?

Still no answer then?

[green day]

Yeah and adults paying kids prices has been happening for years therefore it's a common practice aswell

So you see no difference? Honestly?

Or are you just being argumentative??

[TonyStokeprano]

Because lifting kids over was common practice and deemed ok back then.

World of difference between that and knowingly buying a child's ST in 2016 for £300 less than an adult one and ripping your club off.

Clear?

Sorry I've no idea how what year it happened in makes sneaking in or paying less any better, unless it was advertised back then that kids got in free and child tickets were unavailable then it's theft and fraud the same as 2016s child ticket brigade

[Mr White]

Yeah and adults paying kids prices has been happening for years therefore it's a common practice aswell

There was no attempt to deceive back then though. It was visible and allowed by staff employed by the club. Not just to people known to them as in the Cineworld example but to everyone.

[TonyStokeprano]

Because lifting kids over was common practice and deemed ok back then.

World of difference between that and knowingly buying a child's ST in 2016 for £300 less than an adult one and ripping your club off.

Clear?

Theft is theft regardless off whether it was 10p to get in or 24 quid

[green day]

Sorry I've no idea how what year it happened in makes sneaking in or paying less any better, unless it was advertised back then that kids got in free and child tickets were unavailable then it's theft and fraud the same as 2016s child ticket brigade

Read Ancient Hibee and Mr Whites posts.

It's basic stuff, if you cannae understand it you need medical help.

[GreenLake]

Just another wee point by to add.

I'm sure loads of us adults have bought season tickets for our kids who actually rarely go. If once or twice a season an adult who wouldn't go otherwise uses it then so what?

Hibs will be doing okay from kids tickets rarely used. The response here needs to be proportionate and not cause more issues than it seeks to solve.

I keep the kid ticket going because someone can use it now and again and I can also get an extra ticket for big games. If Hibs start to get too precious about these things then they lose the season ticket sales.

The adult should be able to trade the child's ticket in for an adult one - provided he pays the additional amount for an adult ticket.

[Mr White]

The adult should be able to trade the child's ticket in for an adult one - provided he pays the additional amount for an adult ticket.

You can it cost £10 every time I did it a couple of years back.

[TonyStokeprano]

Read Ancient Hibee and Mr Whites posts.

It's basic stuff, if you cannae understand it you need medical help.

Ancient hibee talks about something completely different mate? Someone getting in for last half hour for nothing ? This isn't what we're discussing?

as for the medical help thanks but no thanks ya cheeky twat, just because I don't care if someone is paying 12 quid to sit in a seat that would be empty and because I don't think sneaking in 40 years ago was any better I need medical help 😂😂😂, vintage hibs.net someone disagrees with the regulars and they need medical help.

[TonyStokeprano]

All these folk that are saying it's not comparable as it was 50 years ago, Darren mcgregor was in the paper the other week saying he used to sneak in he also says if you got caught you got thrown out which doesn't make sense as yous are saying the club allowed it? he should b fined his wages for all the games he committed theft at and he must be like Benjamin button aswell if he was doing this 50 years ago

[CapitalGreen]

Ancient hibee talks about something completely different mate? Someone getting in for last half hour for nothing ? This isn't what we're discussing?

as for the medical help thanks but no thanks ya cheeky twat, just because I don't care if someone is paying 12 quid to sit in a seat that would be empty and because I don't think sneaking in 40 years ago was any better I need medical help 😂😂😂, vintage hibs.net someone disagrees with the regulars and they need medical help.

I personally couldn't care less what happened 40 years ago.

What I care about is putting £500+ into the club a year and some of that money being used to make up shortfalls in the clubs budget instead of strengthening the squad because some scafs don't want to pay full price to watch the club they profess to love.

Lowest of the low, same as benefit cheats and tax evaders. Those who use the system fairly suffer because of the actions of the few that abuse it.

[CapitalGreen]

All these folk that are saying it's not comparable as it was 50 years ago, Darren mcgregor was in the paper the other week saying he used to sneak in he also says if you got caught you got thrown out which doesn't make sense as yous are saying the club allowed it? he should b fined his wages for all the games he committed theft at and he must be like Benjamin button aswell if he was doing this 50 years ago

He wasn't getting a lift over, he was jumping the fence at the back of the East before the flats went up.

[green day]

I dont care if someone is paying 12 quid to sit in a seat that would be empty

£12???

My son's ST last year was £75. That's more like £4 a game.

Anyone doing that is ripping off the club, plain and simple.

[ian cruise]

Yeah I do view them different thanks. I don't give a **** if someone at a student night in a nightclub isn't a student but is getting cheap drink and stealing from the club owner doesn't bother me. Each to their own!!

Not a like for like argument. You cannot sell students cheaper alcohol than non students. You can charge them less to get in and them it's similar to the hibs scenario bug you'll find that the nightclubs police these things with an iron fist, if Hibs went the route of most clubs people would complain they were being too heavy handed and isolating the fan base. So again not a great example. They also is not usually the same emotional attachment to a pub or club the most profess to having for our club.

[TonyStokeprano]

£12???

My son's ST last year was £75. That's more like £4 a game.

Anyone doing that is ripping off the club, plain and simple.

Yeah have you read my original post on this page which was about my workmate from Manchester who attended 15 games last season with kids tickets and has bought an adult ticket this season, so he was paying 12 quid or whatever it was. Try read my original post before debating with me

[TonyStokeprano]

He wasn't getting a lift over, he was jumping the fence at the back of the East before the flats went up.

Awrite that sound then

[TonyStokeprano]

I personally couldn't care less what happened 40 years ago.

What I care about is putting £500+ into the club a year and some of that money being used to make up shortfalls in the clubs budget instead of strengthening the squad because some scafs don't want to pay full price to watch the club they profess to love.

Lowest of the low, same as benefit cheats and tax evaders. Those who use the system fairly suffer because of the actions of the few that abuse it.

Sorry but I use the system fairly and fail to see how I've suffered from other folk using kids tickets? Care to elaborate on how I have suffered or you or any others due to some adults using kids tickets? If hibs let 5000 unemployed in free every week I couldn't care either. I must still need that mental help eh

[CapitalGreen]

Sorry but I use the system fairly and fail to see how I've suffered from other folk using kids tickets? Care to elaborate on how I have suffered or you or any others due to some adults using kids tickets? If hibs let 5000 unemployed in free every week I couldn't care either. I must still need that mental help eh

Hibs have a budget to meet every season that is inline with clubs of a similar size.
They fund this budget predominantly through season ticket sales.
When people do not pay their way the burden of supporting the club financially falls on those that do through higher ticket prices.

Example
If the club budgeted that it needed to make £3m from season ticket sales

10,000 adult season tickets @ £300 = £3m
or
8,000 adult season tickets @ 356 = £2.85m
2,000 kids season tickets @ £75 = £0.15m

So when more people abuse the system, those paying full price suffer as prices need to rise to the meet budgets required remain competitive.

[TonyStokeprano]

Hibs have a budget to meet every season that is inline with clubs of a similar size.
They fund this budget predominantly through season ticket sales.
When people do not pay their way the burden of supporting the club financially falls on those that do through higher ticket prices.

Example
If the club budgeted that it needed to make £3m from season ticket sales

10,000 adult season tickets @ £300 = £3m
or
8,000 adult season tickets @ 356 = £2.85m
2,000 kids season tickets @ £75 = £0.15m

So when more people abuse the system, those paying full price suffer as prices need to rise to the meet budgets required remain competitive.

Ticket prices have been on the rise for years , I don'the think I'm paying more to watch hibs now because some adults are using kids season tickets, I think they'd have risen regardless like every other football team. so i still don't think they're causing me to suffer but I appreciate your response.

[Forza Fred]

Ticket prices have been on the rise for years , I don'the think I'm paying more to watch hibs now because some adults are using kids season tickets, I think they'd have risen regardless like every other football team. so i still don't think they're causing me to suffer but I appreciate your response.

I originally followed this thread with interes.

Not any more!

[givescotlandfreedom]

Defrauding Hibs wouldn't sit right with me at all. Some folk are morally bankrupt though, probably worthy of pity.

[TonyStokeprano]

I originally followed this thread with interes.

Not any more!

That's great news, really needed to know that. Thanks

[danhibees1875]

People abusing the system directly results in 1 of 2 possible things :

1) to make up the budget shortfall the prices for season tickets or individual tickets have to remain higher for those that do pay

2) the budget is reduced and that means we have a weaker playing squad

I don't think people would want either of those options, and asking people to pay the correct price for thier tickets is not an unreasonable ask to address the issue.

Ive not followed this thread too closely, has it actually been confirmed that this change to turnstyles is to combat this issue or has this just been decided to be the truth?

[monktonharp]

People abusing the system directly results in 1 of 2 possible things :

1) to make up the budget shortfall the prices for season tickets or individual tickets have to remain higher for those that do pay

2) the budget is reduced and that means we have a weaker playing squad

I don't think people would want either of those options, and asking people to pay the correct price for thier tickets is not an unreasonable ask to address the issue.

Ive not followed this thread too closely, has it actually been confirmed that this change to turnstyles is to combat this issue or has this just been decided to be the truth?I too have not followed this thread, but to say that 7k of the 10k ST'S sold are either student/kids or concession seems a bit wrong, is it not??

[danhibees1875]

I too have not followed this thread, but to say that 7k of the 10k ST'S sold are either student/kids or concession seems a bit wrong, is it not??

I didn't say that? but if someone did then I'd say that would probably be wrong, yeah.

[CapitalGreen]

I too have not followed this thread, but to say that 7k of the 10k ST'S sold are either student/kids or concession seems a bit wrong, is it not??

Nobody is suggesting that.

[MKHIBEE]

I too have not followed this thread, but to say that 7k of the 10k ST'S sold are either student/kids or concession seems a bit wrong, is it not??

Those figures were used purely as an example, the poster never claimed the figures to be accurate.

[Tollhouse Hibee]

As far as I am concerned, if you are an adult, pay the adult price.

If you buy a kids ST, it allows a kid into that game, otherwise like an earlier poster said, have the ability to upgrade the kids ST for a fee on a game by game basis. printing a game by game ticket at home is no big deal, and means you can keep the seat for a kid that cant go every week.

No adult should be allowed in on a kids ST. Its not morally correct and is merely cheating the club.

[Brightside]

That's great news, really needed to know that. Thanks

This isn't going to end well

[hfcnic]

Didn't know everyone on here was pure as the driven snow. :na na:

Live and let live, don't worry what everyone else is up to.

I did pay full price for my season ticket, not everyone does - that's life suck it up

[Mr White]

Didn't know everyone on here was pure as the driven snow. :na na:

Live and let live, don't worry what everyone else is up to.

I did pay full price for my season ticket, not everyone does - that's life suck it up
So i agree to some extent re live and let live but it does have an impact on the club. The thing that I find difficult to accept isn't actually the fact that it happens, it's people trying to defend it by twisting logic and ignoring reason :aok:

[pacoluna]

The cost of watching football in Scotland is ridiculous in line with how ridiculous footballers are played. I understand people saying what comes through the gates helps pay the players wages - well we are in the chship if that means lesser players on lesser wages but cheaper to get in then so be it! Football is too expensive Full stop

[Mr White]

The cost of watching football in Scotland is ridiculous in line with how ridiculous footballers are played. I understand people saying what comes through the gates helps pay the players wages - well we are in the chship if that means lesser players on lesser wages but cheaper to get in then so be it! Football is too expensive Full stop
Yes we're in the championship. If we'd charged lower ticket prices and paid lower wages last season would we have won the cup? We'll never know but it would have been a lot harder to do so imo.

[MKHIBEE]

I had a season ticket last year and attended no league games. I bought one this year, as did my wife, and I expect to attend,at most,6 league games. I have bought shares and contributed to KfKs.I put my money into the club in order to do my bit to help them get back to where we want them to be.
With the attitude of some on here it will take a lot of soul searching before I commit to anything like the same level of financial outlay I have up to now.

[HappyHanlon]

15 pages...wow!

Gonnae just stop being tight erses and pay the going rate.

Better still, dinnae bother going. Fraudsters.

[hfcnic]

I had a season ticket last year and attended no league games. I bought one this year, as did my wife, and I expect to attend,at most,6 league games. I have bought shares and contributed to KfKs.I put my money into the club in order to do my bit to help them get back to where we want them to be.
With the attitude of some on here it will take a lot of soul searching before I commit to anything like the same level of financial outlay I have up to now.


No one will force you to put this money in. Do it don't do it. No need to broadcast it. This thread is ridiculous.

[pacoluna]

Yes we're in the championship. If we'd charged lower ticket prices and paid lower wages last season would we have won the cup? We'll never know but it would have been a lot harder to do so imo.

Football clubs are under pressure to generate revenue to compete at the highest level - Unfortunately its through the working mans pocket,.
Football and money seem to be more closely linked than ever. If you turn football into a one-off special treat like going to the cinema or going to the theatre, it's not going to be the game we all love.

[Steve20]

Adults should pay adult prices. There should be no debate about this at all. Sneaking in with a kids ticket is unacceptable and anyone saying "well the club getting half the money is better than none" is talking nonsense.

Why don't we all just refuse to buy tickets then unless it's half price and tell Hibs that "Well, you either get half the money or none". Make sure the club gets less money, but as long as we get in with our wee discount, eh. :rolleyes:

[pacoluna]

Adults should pay adult prices. There should be no debate about this at all. Sneaking in with a kids ticket is unacceptable and anyone saying "well the club getting half the money is better than none" is talking nonsense.

Why don't we all just refuse to buy tickets then unless it's half price and tell Hibs that "Well, you either get half the money or none". Make sure the club gets less money, but as long as we get in with our wee discount, eh. :rolleyes:

If every football fan done this in scotland, we could stage a revolt and bring the overall price of football down :wink:

[Steve20]

If every football fan done this in scotland, we could stage a revolt and bring the overall price of football down :wink:

We'd also not be able to bring in many players either.

[Mr White]

Football clubs are under pressure to generate revenue to compete at the highest level - Unfortunately its through the working mans pocket,.
Football and money seem to be more closely linked than ever. If you turn football into a one-off special treat like going to the cinema or going to the opera, it's not going to be the game we all love.


I absolutely agree football should be cheaper but the fact is Hibs set the prices to maximise the playing budget. Whether we agree with the rate or not there is no excuse for cheating the club. It's pretty simple.

[MKHIBEE]

No one will force you to put this money in. Do it don't do it. No need to broadcast it. This thread is ridiculous.

Im quite aware no one will force me to put my money into the club, No need for you to broadcast it.

[FranckSuzy]

No one will force you to put this money in. Do it don't do it. No need to broadcast it. This thread is ridiculous.

The point is, most of us would never dream of ripping of the Club we love and actually pay more into it than 'just' season tickets. On the other hand, you have those who also claim to love their Club but are cheating it, and their fellow fans, and I know which one is more ridiculous.

[CropleyWasGod]

Football clubs are under pressure to generate revenue to compete at the highest level - Unfortunately its through the working mans pocket,.
Football and money seem to be more closely linked than ever. If you turn football into a one-off special treat like going to the cinema or going to the opera, it's not going to be the game we all love.




What would be your solution? Motherwell reduced prices, and look where it got them.

[hfcnic]

Im quite aware no one will force me to put my money into the club, No need for you to broadcast it.

Well there was no need to mention it then was there? Look how much money I have that I can pay for something I don't even use.

I also agree if someone wants to attend a match they pay the going rate and that should be that. The post was originally set as a heads up to anyone doing it to be wary they may get caught. It's turned into everyone on their moral high horse. Or even worse bragging how much cash they put into the club. Seriously have none of you ever got on a train before and not paid the ticket, been given the wrong change somewhere and not said anything?

The gates were not working on Sunday so there was someone in the turnstile, they weren't even checking tickets just operating the turnstle manually and all this causes WWIII

[hfcnic]

The point is, most of us would never dream of ripping of the Club we love and actually pay more into it than 'just' season tickets. On the other hand, you have those who also claim to love their Club but are cheating it, and their fellow fans, and I know which one is more ridiculous.


Yep most won't, some will. My point exactly.

[Mr White]

Well there was no need to mention it then was there? Look how much money I have that I can pay for something I don't even use.

I also agree if someone wants to attend a match they pay the going rate and that should be that. The post was originally set as a heads up to anyone doing it to be wary they may get caught. It's turned into everyone on their moral high horse. Or even worse bragging how much cash they put into the club. Seriously have none of you ever got on a train before and not paid the ticket, been given the wrong change somewhere and not said anything?

The gates were not working on Sunday so there was someone in the turnstile, they weren't even checking tickets just operating the turnstle manually and all this causes WWIII
You're talking about morals too, just a different slant on it. I'm always puzzled by people criticising others for presenting their opinion... whilst presenting their own in the process.

[pacoluna]

What would be your solution? Motherwell reduced prices, and look where it got them.
A reform of the SFA would be a start. Perhaps sponsorship specifically to assist in ticket costs?

[CropleyWasGod]

A reform of the SFA would of a start. Perhaps sponsorship specifically to assist in ticket costs?

Not sure how reform of the SFA would help in reducing ticket costs, particularly when most ticket revenues are generated by games outwith their competitions.

As for sponsorship, you're talking millions.... and that kind of money just isn't around for the Scottish game.

[pacoluna]

Not sure how reform of the SFA would help in reducing ticket costs, particularly when most ticket revenues are generated by games outwith their competitions.

As for sponsorship, you're talking millions.... and that kind of money just isn't around for the Scottish game.

Well if the money isn't there clubs should stop paying ridiculously big wages and accept Scottish football for what it is, that's my point. Does it really matter what outside of europe think about our game? to me it doesn't I am quite happy to support a lesser Scottish league with a lesser quality of player if it means more people can attend.

[hfcnic]

You're talking about morals too, just a different slant on it. I'm always puzzled by people criticising others for presenting their opinion... whilst presenting their own in the process.

What I am pointing out is that you may not "defaud" hibs but you probably have done it somewhere else, then come on here with the "sc um" "lowest of the low" comments just make you a hypocrite. Yep we all know it's wrong, most of us do pay full price for our tickets but it does not make someone sc um because they are less fortunate in life that you and are trying to make the best of what they do have.

[McD]

Is your answer to everything that it's not comparable , it clearly is its two different ways of getting into a football match a discount one absolutely free and one half price, seems on this board that sneaking in is better than paying for a kids ticket, your talk about players wages il say it again, how can an empty seat pay a wage??


Nobody was 'sneaked in', something you've claimed in several posts. Young children were lifted over the turnstile in full view and cooperation of a club employee, as it was the standard process of young children getting in to see a match. There was no sneaking involved.

Theres also a world of difference between a young child being actively allowed into a match by the club for free (a child who likely doesn't have a job), and adults who willfully lie and provide false information to the club in order to get away with paying less. And has already been said, many of these adults manage to have enough money to support drinking, smoking, etc.

[CropleyWasGod]

Well if the money isn't their stop paying ridiculously big wages, that's my point.

So you want Hibs to stop paying big wages, just so they can reduce ticket prices?

If we do that unilaterally, we will lose out to other clubs.

If we do that in conjunction with other clubs, how do we do it? By agreeing a wage cap? That will mean that the better players will go elsewhere, which will lower the standard, which will reduce interest.... etc etc.

[easty]

Adults should pay adult prices. There should be no debate about this at all. Sneaking in with a kids ticket is unacceptable and anyone saying "well the club getting half the money is better than none" is talking nonsense.

Why don't we all just refuse to buy tickets then unless it's half price and tell Hibs that "Well, you either get half the money or none". Make sure the club gets less money, but as long as we get in with our wee discount, eh. :rolleyes:

But the reality of it is that not everyone is ever going to do it. Like getting a box off the internet to get your telly for cheaper instead of through Sky/Virgin. Like downloading a film from a torrent site, instead of going to the cinema. It's a minority who do it, on the grand scheme of things. Doesn't make it right.

If you're regularly going to Easter Road, but paying less than you should be, then you're doing Hibs out of money, money that they could improve the club with. But...you're still paying something though, which is more than 85% of the folk who turned up to the cup final parade pay into the club, generally.

I don't understand how anyone can argue that someone who was getting a "lift over", is less of a theft though. The club is either receiving the money it should do for attendance to the game, or it's not.

Where does the "you're ripping off the club" argument stop? If you buy a Hibs cup winning t-shirt online, rather than through an official Hibs channel, are you doing Hibs out of money? Cos Hibs aren't seeing any of those profits.

[Mr White]

What I am pointing out is that you may not "defaud" hibs but you probably have done it somewhere else, then come on here with the "sc um" "lowest of the low" comments just make you a hypocrite. Yep we all know it's wrong, most of us do pay full price for our tickets but it does not make someone sc um because they are less fortunate in life that you and are trying to make the best of what they do have.
:hilarious

Feel free to point out any hypocrisy from me on this thread or any other. You should check your own posts too though as the moral high horse has appeared now on both sides of this debate.

[pacoluna]

So you want Hibs to stop paying big wages, just so they can reduce ticket prices?

If we do that unilaterally, we will lose out to other clubs.

If we do that in conjunction with other clubs, how do we do it? By agreeing a wage cap? That will mean that the better players will go elsewhere, which will lower the standard, which will reduce interest.... etc etc.

I edited my post before I seen your reply with regards to the standard of scottish football. Reduce interest within Scotland or outside of Scotland?

[easty]

Nobody was 'sneaked in', something you've claimed in several posts. Young children were lifted over the turnstile in full view and cooperation of a club employee, as it was the standard process of young children getting in to see a match. There was no sneaking involved.

Theres also a world of difference between a young child being actively allowed into a match by the club for free (a child who likely doesn't have a job), and adults who willfully lie and provide false information to the club in order to get away with paying less. And has already been said, many of these adults manage to have enough money to support drinking, smoking, etc.

Sneaked in, not sneaked in...Hibs got no money, however you want to put it. It wasn't an official standard process, if it was standard for kids to get in free, they'd have walked through the turnstiles. The fact that a blind eye was turned to it, doesn't make it official.

I'm not arguing the point that people are right to be going to the games and using an adult ticket, it's not right. The money Hibs lose out on, is the same as the money they lost out on when folk/kids/whoever got a lift over.

[hfcnic]

:hilarious

Feel free to point out any hypocrisy on my part on this thread or any other. You should check your own posts too though as the moral high horse has appeared now on both sides of this debate.

:blah: See what I mean about this thread being ridiculous.

[Mr White]

:blah: See what I mean about this thread being ridiculous.

And yet here you are...

[hfcnic]

And yet here you are...

:thumbsup:

[McD]

Sneaked in, not sneaked in...Hibs got no money, however you want to put it. It wasn't an official standard process, if it was standard for kids to get in free, they'd have walked through the turnstiles. The fact that a blind eye was turned to it, doesn't make it official.

I'm not arguing the point that people are right to be going to the games and using an adult ticket, it's not right. The money Hibs lose out on, is the same as the money they lost out on when folk/kids/whoever got a lift over.


If it wasn't an official process, why did every club employee allow it to happen?

Why were they lifted over instead of walking through? Perhaps Hibs used the turnstiles to count attendance, and any children not paying weren't counted, in the same way that nowadays we don't count season tickets if they're not in attendance - essentially counting bodies through the turnstiles.

I hear what you're saying though, and I agree for the most part. Anyone attending who hasn't paid the proper going rate has done the club out of money.

[CropleyWasGod]

I edited my post before I seen your reply with regards to the standard of scottish football. Reduce interest within Scotland or outside of Scotland?

Within, amongst the potential market.

[Brightside]

15 pages...wow!

Gonnae just stop being tight erses and pay the going rate.

Better still, dinnae bother going. Fraudsters.

the fact that some of the people saying its OK....are also people who complain about signings!!! ffs.

[pacoluna]

Within, amongst the potential market.

I think people would still enjoy and attend games with lesser quality and standard as long as the competitiveness was still there, and more home grown players would be giving more opportunities which is another topic. What is the purpose of paying enormous wages is to attract bigger players? what's the actual goal... to improve our coefficient? to do well in europe? or to compete against each other.

[Andy74]

The adult should be able to trade the child's ticket in for an adult one - provided he pays the additional amount for an adult ticket.

Yeah but given Hibs are generally making out of that ticket which is never used and the person using it once wouldn't be going otherwise then so what if they don't?

As I said earlier one guy who used mine has now been persuaded to buy a season ticket.

[marinello59]

I think people would still enjoy and attend games with lesser quality and standard as long as the competitiveness was still there, and more home grown players would be giving more opportunities which is another topic. What is the purpose of paying enormous wages is to attract bigger players? what's the actual goal... to improve our coefficient? to do well in europe? or to compete against each other.

What a serious lack of ambition for our national game that would show, a willingness to accept ever lower standards. I want to see players in our top league doing things that most of us could only dream of doing with a football. I want our kids trying to copy things they have seen on a Saturday. That's the point.
Locking ourselves away in our own wee world playing out of date football where technique doesn't matter as long as the game is competitive isn't the answer.

[pacoluna]

What a serious lack of ambition for our national game that would show, a willingness to accept ever lower standards. I want to see players in our top league doing things that most of us could only dream of doing with a football. I want our kids trying to copy things they have seen on a Saturday. That's the point.
Locking ourselves away in our own wee world playing out of date football where technique doesn't matter as long as the game is competitive isn't the answer.
Neither is over pricing football matches to see what is already a mediocre if best Scottish league full of over payed footballers.
As a fan I fear too much money is going out of the game and straight into the players' pockets

[Tollhouse Hibee]

No one will force you to put this money in. Do it don't do it. No need to broadcast it. This thread is ridiculous.

How is it ridiculous, all because some people think its acceptable to enter under a childs rate?? People invest in tickets, because they want to support the club, and make sure they contribute, whether or not they can attend. That should be commended not ridiculed.

[Phil MaGlass]

Used to try sneaking in to games at ER when I was younger, it was a sort of sport, never had pocket money, I cant blame some for sneaking in, or smuggling kids in, doing the club out of money mmm I dont know.
There are many folk with ST,s that are not always used, does that mean because they give them to other supporters for the odd game mean they are doing the club out of cash? Bums on seats. I reckon there are quite a few fans that bought kids tickets and use them or loan them to other fans, these fans may have good reasons for doing this. Unemployed, skint or whatever I wont judge them.Lets say you are recently unemployed, used to have a season ticket and now cant afford to go to many games, am I really going to worry if his only way to watch Hibs is by using a kids ticket, NO.

If its a loop hole, then, let the club sort it out, lets stop bickering about it and saying its taking money away from the club.

[CropleyWasGod]

Neither is over pricing football matches to see what is already a mediocre if best Scottish league full of over payed footballers.
As a fan I fear too much money is going out of the game and straight into the players' pockets

That's the same in every league in the world, though. There is no way round it.

Where else would you want the money to go?

[marinello59]

Neither is over pricing football matches to see what is already a mediocre if best Scottish league full of over payed footballers.
As a fan I fear too much money is going out of the game and straight into the players' pockets

Many footballers are overpaid, no argument from me about that. But when a player becomes available what is the typical fan response? Pay him what it takes to get him here. And then we complain that the game is too expensive.

[pacoluna]

Used to try sneaking in to games at ER when I was younger, it was a sort of sport, never had pocket money, I cant blame some for sneaking in, or smuggling kids in, doing the club out of money mmm I dont know.
There are many folk with ST,s that are not always used, does that mean because they give them to other supporters for the odd game mean they are doing the club out of cash? Bums on seats. I reckon there are quite a few fans that bought kids tickets and use them or loan them to other fans, these fans may have good reasons for doing this. Unemployed, skint or whatever I wont judge them.Lets say you are recently unemployed, used to have a season ticket and now cant afford to go to many games, am I really going to worry if his only way to watch Hibs is by using a kids ticket, NO.

If its a loop hole, then, let the club sort it out, lets stop bickering about it and saying its taking money away from the club.

I agree that's why i mentioned the possibility of there being an initiative for those who can't afford games due to a relatively poor income. To say if you can't afford it don't go isn't fair in my opinion.

[pacoluna]

That's the same in every league in the world, though. There is no way round it.

Where else would you want the money to go?

In the fans pocket by reducing prices.

[CropleyWasGod]

In the fans pocket by reducing prices.

I mentioned earlier about Motherwell reducing prices, in an effort to increase attendance.

It didn't work, and they ended up in administration. Whilst that wouldn't necessarily happen to every other club, it would be a race to the bottom IMO. Would fans actually go to third-rate games, or keep their cash to do something more entertaining?

[Brightside]

attendance in scotland overall is actually high as a %age of population. One of the highest in europe. The main problem in Scotland is FAR TOO MANY TEAMS. Cost of ticket is not a factor.

[hfcnic]

How is it ridiculous, all because some people think its acceptable to enter under a childs rate?? People invest in tickets, because they want to support the club, and make sure they contribute, whether or not they can attend. That should be commended not ridiculed.

A bit of decorum about it though. No need to broadcast like you are above everyone else.

[J-C]

attendance in scotland overall is actually high as a %age of population. One of the highest in europe. The main problem in Scotland is FAR TOO MANY TEAMS. Cost of ticket is not a factor.

We as a nation should have 2 leagues of 16 professional teams per league, the rest of which many are part time / semi pro should be playing in a pyramid system similar to England, a lowland and Highland league with play offs and promotion.

[Thecat23]

attendance in scotland overall is actually high as a %age of population. One of the highest in europe. The main problem in Scotland is FAR TOO MANY TEAMS. Cost of ticket is not a factor.

I agree we have far to many teams, but cost of a ticket is way over priced. That includes ST. The product in Scotland is pretty horrific and when we start producing good young talent then maybe it can be justified.

[Alfred E Newman]

Well i gave an example of a guy who used kids tickets last season and has now purchased an adult season ticket!

So if he buys a season ticket for next ten seasons will you let him off with last seasons child tickets since its benefited hibs in the long run ?

Your admitting you used to rip hibs off by sneaking folk in but your upset that folk are paying something to get in. I am afraid you are missing the point. When i started going to the football it was normal practice to lift over small children as young as 5 and sit them on a terracing barrier to watch the game. It was pay at the gate and no one was expected to pay for a child that wasn't long out their pram..After my son got hooked and wanted to go regularly I paid him in. That is the way it worked then. However, unlike your mate, when he reached 16 he paid his way in as an adult and has down ever since. He didn't try and cheat the club by passing himself off as a child. The fact that your mate has bought a full price ticket this year doesn't change the fact that he cheated the club out of money last season. Of course he was maybe just worried he was going to be found out.

[Brightside]

I agree we have far to many teams, but cost of a ticket is way over priced. That includes ST. The product in Scotland is pretty horrific and when we start producing good young talent then maybe it can be justified.

But without the ticket price the team is not sustainable....there is zilch coming on from advertising, tv etc. We are the only way to pay for the club. its a shame but its the truth...it wont get any cheaper.

[MKHIBEE]

A bit of decorum about it though. No need to broadcast like you are above everyone else.
You really are priceless and completely wrong. You haven't a clue about me or my reasons for posting.
You are, of course, entitled to reach your own conclusions which seem to be serving some unknown agenda.I am happy with my reasons for the post I published and it has nothing to do with bragging or look at how much money I can spend or being above everybody else If it was I would have given a monetary figure. I accept I am fortunate in being able to do what I have done. If it grates with you so be it, you keep torturing yourself over nothing

[hfcnic]

You really are priceless and completely wrong. You haven't a clue about me or my reasons for posting.
You are, of course, entitled to reach your own conclusions which seem to be serving some unknown agenda.I am happy with my reasons for the post I published and it has nothing to do with bragging or look at how much money I can spend or being above everybody else If it was I would have given a monetary figure. I accept I am fortunate in being able to do what I have done. If it grates with you so be it, you keep torturing yourself over nothing

Honestly MKHIBEE it is not in any way torturing me that you pay x amount to Hibs, as you say I don't have a clue about you nor do I have a clue about your financial situation but you also don't know mine. That is how it should be. What I can say is I do not go around social media, public forums berating people for doing something wrong then brag about how I pay over and above the going rate like some kind of hero. Honestly paying for a season ticket you cannot use is not something to brag about. Anyway, seems this is blowing up more than it was ever intending too. If you're happy with what you pay that is great, good for you.:aok: I am leaving it there because to be quite honest this is pointless.

[MKHIBEE]

Honestly MKHIBEE it is not in any way torturing me that you pay x amount to Hibs, as you say I don't have a clue about you nor do I have a clue about your financial situation but you also don't know mine. That is how it should be. What I can say is I do not go around social media, public forums berating people for doing something wrong then brag about how I pay over and above the going rate like some kind of hero. Honestly paying for a season ticket you cannot use is not something to brag about. Anyway, seems this is blowing up more than it was ever intending too. If you're happy with what you pay that is great, good for you.:aok: I am leaving it there because to be quite honest this is pointless.
At least we agree on something, it is pointless and that is my last word on this thread

[Scouse Hibee]

No one will force you to put this money in. Do it don't do it. No need to broadcast it. This thread is ridiculous.

No one forces you to read or post on this thread,if you don't like it beat it and leave it to those who wish to discuss it.

[hibee_nation]

You really are priceless and completely wrong. You haven't a clue about me or my reasons for posting.
You are, of course, entitled to reach your own conclusions which seem to be serving some unknown agenda.I am happy with my reasons for the post I published and it has nothing to do with bragging or look at how much money I can spend or being above everybody else If it was I would have given a monetary figure. I accept I am fortunate in being able to do what I have done. If it grates with you so be it, you keep torturing yourself over nothing

I couldn't care less if you are a billionaire and it's a drop in the ocean to your finances, thanks for investing some of it in Hibs mate, i appreciate it, if others don't tough luck.

[pacoluna]

I pay full price season ticket and always will, however I admit on a couple of occasions I have paid concession prices for away games Including *********** when they wanted £34 quid!

[hfcnic]

No one forces you to read or post on this thread,if you don't like it beat it and leave it to those who wish to discuss it.

The irony

[PISTOL1875]

There is a person on here who has a short memory.. The same one who was listed as a carer to his/her disabled dad and when he never went, the person involved still went under the carer's ticket and as far as I am aware he/she didn't upgrade the carer's ticket...

A tad hypocritical don't you all agree ???

[CockneyRebel]

Sneaked in, not sneaked in...Hibs got no money, however you want to put it. It wasn't an official standard process, if it was standard for kids to get in free, they'd have walked through the turnstiles. The fact that a blind eye was turned to it, doesn't make it official.

I'm not arguing the point that people are right to be going to the games and using an adult ticket, it's not right. The money Hibs lose out on, is the same as the money they lost out on when folk/kids/whoever got a lift over.

I used to lift my boy over - he was too young to understand or enjoy the game but I was molding him into being a Hibby. The wage I was on at that time, if a lift over was not looked at with a glass eye, I could not/would not have taken him so Hibs lost nothing but gained a lifelong supporter. A very grey area as they were different times then but I still believe that kids should get in free until 12 then child prices until 16. Proper supervision and technology should stop concessions being abused.