Fan Buy Out Launched/BuyHibs/Q&A Answers

[Baldy Foghorn]

Hi, please see our response to your question.

Also please accept our apology for not getting back to you sooner.

On launching on 11 November, BuyHibs were open and clear that it wished to meet with the owners of the club to discuss a number of issues. We feel only the current owners can engage in discussions about the future of our club. BuyHibs unanimously agreed to stick to our objective and continue dialogue to arrange this meeting.

Do you not think it rather silly to knock back meeting with the Director's who will be fully aware of the situation and be operating on behalf of STF?

[ancient hibee]

If you were wanting to take over Marks and Spencer don't think you'd get very far trying to talk to the owners before their board.

[blackpoolhibs]

If you were wanting to take over Marks and Spencer don't think you'd get very far trying to talk to the owners before their board.

Hibs are a tin pot organization compared to Marks and Spencers, if i wanted to purchase the local barber shop on the main street here, i'd go straight to the guy who owns it.

[brog]

Hibs are a tin pot organization compared to Marks and Spencers, if i wanted to purchase the local barber shop on the main street here, i'd go straight to the guy who owns it.

Exactly! The largest single private investor in M & S owns 3% of the company. STF owns 90% of Hibs. Having said that I still think BH shot themselves in the foot by their refusal to meet directors.

[Mikey]

Having said that I still think BH shot themselves in the foot by their refusal to meet directors.

Yep. STF is under no obligation to sell and they have to prove that they not only have the money to sustain the club, but are the right people to take it on.

So far they don't tick either of those boxes.

[marinello59]

Hi, please see our response to your question.

Also please accept our apology for not getting back to you sooner.

On launching on 11 November, BuyHibs were open and clear that it wished to meet with the owners of the club to discuss a number of issues. We feel only the current owners can engage in discussions about the future of our club. BuyHibs unanimously agreed to stick to our objective and continue dialogue to arrange this meeting.

The gist of your replies to previous questions are that you are in the embryonic stage of preparation for a fans buy out. Every journey has to start somewhere, wouldn't it have made sense to start engaging in dialogue now. As it stands you have no firm proposals, no investors willing to show their faces in public and no firm pledges from fans as you have cancelled the direct debits. Wouldn't a board level meeting at this early stage to build relationships be a good start given that you really have nothing to go in to STF with? It might not be ideal but it's something.
Sticking rigidly to your way or no way at all seems to be missing an opportunity.

[The Green Goblin]

Hi, please see our response to your question.

Also please accept our apology for not getting back to you sooner.

On launching on 11 November, BuyHibs were open and clear that it wished to meet with the owners of the club to discuss a number of issues. We feel only the current owners can engage in discussions about the future of our club. BuyHibs unanimously agreed to stick to our objective and continue dialogue to arrange this meeting.


Thanks BH. I appreciate you acknowledging my post and question. No problem with the timing. As I said, I was just bumping it to keep the question out there rather than making a "point". :wink:

For what it's worth, I do feel you might have met with the board, even if it was to do that one thing, to ask them to pass on the message to STF "officially", that it was talks with him directly that you were looking for. If you were fobbed off, then I think that would have been the point to say that you felt those talks would lead nowhere. I just think that any dialogue would have been a step forward and you could at least have given it a chance, especially with such a long term game underway. But that's just me. Cheers.

[The Falcon]

Yep. STF is under no obligation to sell and they have to prove that they not only have the money to sustain the club, but are the right people to take it on.

So far they don't tick either of those boxes.

I am not sure what boxes they do tick. There is a conversation on Hibs future that needs to be had but i am not sure this is it. They have to offer us something that STF doesnt/cant/wont and I have seen nothing yet that persuades me that they are the people to take over the club.

[Jonnyboy]

The gist of your replies to previous questions are that you are in the embryonic stage of preparation for a fans buy out. Every journey has to start somewhere, wouldn't it have made sense to start engaging in dialogue now. As it stands you have no firm proposals, no investors willing to show their faces in public and no firm pledges from fans as you have cancelled the direct debits. Wouldn't a board level meeting at this early stage to build relationships be a good start given that you really have nothing to go in to STF with? It might not be ideal but it's something.
Sticking rigidly to your way or no way at all seems to be missing an opportunity.

:agree:

I find it strange that they've said they have no intention of replacing LD and yet they've refused the offer to meet with her :confused:

[bingo70]

:agree:

I find it strange that they've said they have no intention of replacing LD and yet they've refused the offer to meet with her :confused:

I'm sure they'd be happy to have discussions with her in due course but us it really that unreasonable a request to ask to meet the owner of the club?

I've got some concerns about buyhibs but I can't help but think farmers point blank refusal to speak to supporters is pretty disrespectful, especially considering our current position.

[grunt]

:agree:

I find it strange that they've said they have no intention of replacing LD and yet they've refused the offer to meet with her :confused:Don't forget that originally they refused to admit her position was safe. It could be that they only changed their mind about her due to fan pressure.


Are you proposing that Leeann Dempster and George Craig stand down from the Board? Not necessarily, although it must be recognised that wholesale change is required and that the current board have continually failed us.

[Jonnyboy]

Don't forget that originally they refused to admit her position was safe. It could be that they only changed their mind about her due to fan pressure.

Good point. In giving that answer they appear to be saying the whole board would go or am I picking that up wrongly?

[BuyHibs]

Good point. In giving that answer they appear to be saying the whole board would go or am I picking that up wrongly?

Hi, We would just like to clarify this point and confirm as to what was originally set up on the Q&A. Through the talks that took place prior to the launch of BuyHibs to the Hibs support when considering which board members would be leaving if BuyHibs was successful, this would only target the members of the board that were involved in the recent downfall of the football club. Given that Leeann Dempster & George Craig have recently arrived no intention would be made to remove either from the club as they had no part in the previous seasons.

When the Q&A was released that was stated incorrectly and people were quite right to ask that question.

[Jonnyboy]

Hi, We would just like to clarify this point and confirm as to what was originally set up on the Q&A. Through the talks that took place prior to the launch of BuyHibs to the Hibs support when considering which board members would be leaving if BuyHibs was successful, this would only target the members of the board that were involved in the recent downfall of the football club. Given that Leeann Dempster & George Craig have recently arrived no intention would be made to remove either from the club as they had no part in the previous seasons.

When the Q&A was released that was stated incorrectly and people were quite right to ask that question.

Thanks for clarifying. Does the same criteria apply to the Manager and his coaching staff?

[BuyHibs]

Thanks for clarifying. Does the same criteria apply to the Manager and his coaching staff?


Hi Jonnyboy Yes 100% we are fully behind the playing staff, the manager & his back-room team.

[Jonnyboy]

Hi Jonnyboy Yes 100% we are fully behind the playing staff, the manager & his back-room team.

Again, thanks for clarifying

[sleeping giant]

I am not sure what boxes they do tick. There is a conversation on Hibs future that needs to be had but i am not sure this is it. They have to offer us something that STF doesnt/cant/wont and I have seen nothing yet that persuades me that they are the people to take over the club.

Spot on.

[DC_Hibs]

Thanks for clarifying. Does the same criteria apply to the Manager and his coaching staff?

I'd like to think they'd take the views of the fans into consideration....which won't answer your question really as the fans views changed weekly on Stubbs and the merits of our players.

Stubbs is flavour of the month again after beating Dumbarton whereas he had done nothing for us the week previously after drawing 0-0 with QoTS.

Nae inbetween ya dobbers?

Next.

Regards

[Jonnyboy]

I'd like to think they'd take the views of the fans into consideration....which won't answer your question really as the fans views changed weekly on Stubbs and the merits of our players.

Stubbs is flavour of the month again after beating Dumbarton whereas he had done nothing for us the week previously after drawing 0-0 with QoTS.

Nae inbetween ya dobbers?

Next.

Regards

Are they taking the views of the fans into consideration when many say they should meet with the board?

[BuyHibs]

We would just like to Highlight again that we have a Q&A face to face session with .net users on Wednesday 3rd December at the Hibernian Supporters Club Sunnyside. We feel like this will go a long way to engage with the supporters face to face and hear the proposals set out by us & answer the questions that you have.

Our intention is to have everyone from BuyHibs available for this so please feel free to come down and have a chat with us if you can.

The Post is on the top of the forum.

[blackpoolhibs]

We would just like to Highlight again that we have a Q&A face to face session with .net users on Wednesday 3rd December at the Hibernian Supporters Club Sunnyside. We feel like this will go a long way to engage with the supporters face to face and hear the proposals set out by us & answer the questions that you have.

Our intention is to have everyone from BuyHibs available for this so please feel free to come down and have a chat with us if you can.

The Post is on the top of the forum.

Do you have any idea how much you will need in pledges for this to be a goer?

[Andy74]

Hibs are a tin pot organization compared to Marks and Spencers, if i wanted to purchase the local barber shop on the main street here, i'd go straight to the guy who owns it.

Not if your local barber shop had a board and it's been made very very clear in the past that they run it on the owners behalf.

We all know the set up at Hibs and this move is just stupid.

[blackpoolhibs]

Not if your local barber shop had a board and it's been made very very clear in the past that they run it on the owners behalf.

We all know the set up at Hibs and this move is just stupid.

What was stupid was comparing Hibs to Marks and Spencers, when my analysis was much nearer. While i agree buyhibs should be doing everything possible to get this meeting with STF, and if meeting the board first is part of the process then so be it.

[Andy74]

What was stupid was comparing Hibs to Marks and Spencers, when my analysis was much nearer. While i agree buyhibs should be doing everything possible to get this meeting with STF, and if meeting the board first is part of the process then so be it.

It wasn't nearer - from a corporate set up (and we all hate that with a football team) it is absolutley more in line with an M&S than a barber shop.

Fact is we all know the set up and the way you get something through Hibs.

[w pilton hibby]

On launching on 11 November, BuyHibs were open and clear that it wished to meet with the owners of the club to discuss a number of issues. We feel only the current owners can engage in discussions about the future of our club. BuyHibs unanimously agreed to stick to our objective and continue dialogue to arrange this meeting.

Currently it's Tom Famers ball. With the above approach you're not even on the park never mind getting a kick at said ball.

[Bostonhibby]

Hi, please see our response to your question.

Also please accept our apology for not getting back to you sooner.

On launching on 11 November, BuyHibs were open and clear that it wished to meet with the owners of the club to discuss a number of issues. We feel only the current owners can engage in discussions about the future of our club. BuyHibs unanimously agreed to stick to our objective and continue dialogue to arrange this meeting.

Thanks for answering all earlier questions, my only remaining concern for Buyhibs at this stage is around the belief that it is possible to dictate who you will/won't meet.

Unless its understood that it's all very well having your objective around a meeting but it carries no weight whatsoever if you are not prepared to talk to the board or whoever STF empowers to act on his behalf - you don't carry any goodwill from him, the board will remain detached if you don't want to speak to them and you lose credibility with a significant number of supporters who can see the folly in the objective(?)

if STF doesn't think its worth speaking to buyhibs directly and Buyhibs wont talk to anyone else what is plan B? unanimously sticking to the objective tends to suggest Buyhibs will have nowhere to go without a dialogue with the club on the owners terms?

[Andy74]

I just find it amazing this group won't untilise Leeann.

She seems happy to talk, she has experience of how this has worked, or not, elsewhere and she has just gone through a large scale survey and consultation process. She is also close to the club's own thoughts and plans and has discussed ownership, she says, with the owner when they met.

I still don't really agree that we need to buy the club and am less keen to pay money just to fund a group to own the club (without actually getting a share), however, if I was in any way interested I'd be really happy to learn that the group are going to work with the club, talk to Leeann and others and find a way for this to work for everyone, working together and without hostility.

The militant approach is not going to bring together a support that aren't that fussed about this happening anyway for the most part. Everyone knows how the club works in terms of the board running it and being difficult about this is just a sure way to make sure this dies a death.

I'm not sure why they are holding face to face Q&As where a small number of people will turn up when they have yet to givereally decent answers to most of the written Q&As and follow up questions. The whole thing will need written up anyway if they want the messages and answers to get over.

[superfurryhibby]

I just find it amazing this group won't untilise Leeann.

She seems happy to talk, she has experience of how this has worked, or not, elsewhere and she has just gone through a large scale survey and consultation process. She is also close to the club's own thoughts and plans and has discussed ownership, she says, with the owner when they met.

I still don't really agree that we need to buy the club and am less keen to pay money just to fund a group to own the club (without actually getting a share), however, if I was in any way interested I'd be really happy to learn that the group are going to work with the club, talk to Leeann and others and find a way for this to work for everyone, working together and without hostility.

The militant approach is not going to bring together a support that aren't that fussed about this happening anyway for the most part. Everyone knows how the club works in terms of the board running it and being difficult about this is just a sure way to make sure this dies a death.

I'm not sure why they are holding face to face Q&As where a small number of people will turn up when they have yet to givereally decent answers to most of the written Q&As and follow up questions. The whole thing will need written up anyway if they want the messages and answers to get over.

Some big assumptions in there Andy. The appetite from the support for a fan share in ownership is still debateable and I think we need to know what the club are proposing (that one seems to be taking even longer than anyone could reasonable imagine)before we can be sure where fans interest lie.

I imagine the Q & A will be very well attended and I'm sure the written material will be produced to compliment what is and has been said during the past few weeks.

Can we apply the same rules for open dialogue to our owner and his conduit as you are placing on Buy Hibs, or are they exempt from this critique?

[jacomo]

I agree that refusing the offer of a meeting with the Board seems ill-advised. They need to get themselves onto people's agendas.

Holding Q&As at supporters' clubs is about reaching out to fans who don't use message boards. That seems fair enough really.

[Ozyhibby]

I just find it amazing this group won't untilise Leeann.

She seems happy to talk, she has experience of how this has worked, or not, elsewhere and she has just gone through a large scale survey and consultation process. She is also close to the club's own thoughts and plans and has discussed ownership, she says, with the owner when they met.

I still don't really agree that we need to buy the club and am less keen to pay money just to fund a group to own the club (without actually getting a share), however, if I was in any way interested I'd be really happy to learn that the group are going to work with the club, talk to Leeann and others and find a way for this to work for everyone, working together and without hostility.

The militant approach is not going to bring together a support that aren't that fussed about this happening anyway for the most part. Everyone knows how the club works in terms of the board running it and being difficult about this is just a sure way to make sure this dies a death.

I'm not sure why they are holding face to face Q&As where a small number of people will turn up when they have yet to givereally decent answers to most of the written Q&As and follow up questions. The whole thing will need written up anyway if they want the messages and answers to get over.

First positive engagement I've seen from you on this subject. And I agree with you.
BuyHibs can work but they are going to have to lift their game to make it work.
So far all they have done is announce a goal they are aiming for. They now need to put some flesh on the bones.
And get someone on board to deal with social media. It's been appalling so far.

[Andy74]

Some big assumptions in there Andy. The appetite from the support for a fan share in ownership is still debateable and I think we need to know what the club are proposing (that one seems to be taking even longer than anyone could reasonable imagine)before we can be sure where fans interest lie.

I imagine the Q & A will be very well attended and I'm sure the written material will be produced to compliment what is and has been said during the past few weeks.

Can we apply the same rules for open dialogue to our owner and his conduit as you are placing on Buy Hibs, or are they exempt from this critique?


The recent club survey, which was worded quite openly, suggested low interest in fan owership. So did the feedback from the fan consultation nights.

The club made a clear public statement already welcoming a discussion and offering a meeting. They held three consultation nights. They conducted a wide ranging survey. Sir Tom has made clear previously that the club isn't being marketed for sale but he would consider an offer for the benefit of the club. He has also been clear that the board is there to run the club. What other open dialogue are you lloking for from the club just now?

I hope the Q&As are well attended and I hope they really answer questions which they have failed to address over the last few weeks. Wrtten material for their months of work could be produced now couldn't it?

[DarlingtonHibee]

FAO BuyHibs team

Any chance of a video recording of the Q&A, that could be posted on here for those that can't travel to Edinburgh ?

[blackpoolhibs]

FAO BuyHibs team

Any chance of a video recording of the Q&A, that could be posted on here for those that can't travel to Edinburgh ?

Dont do it, he will only rip it to shreds. :wink:

[Leithenhibby]

FAO BuyHibs team

Any chance of a video recording of the Q&A, that could be posted on here for those that can't travel to Edinburgh ?


I don't think that's too much to ask :aok:

Lot's of fans can't make it, capture as many fans as possible that may be sitting on the fence!...It's a good idea. IMO :wink:

[southsider]

Just what to the BuyHibs board bring to the table ? They hope to take over the club using someone else's money. Now where have i heard that before ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Just what to the BuyHibs board bring to the table ? They hope to take over the club using someone else's money. Now where have i heard that before ?
To be fair, that's not what they are proposing. They are trying to facilitate the takeover by others, using those others' money.

[blackpoolhibs]

Again a question i'd like an answer too please, how much in pledges are needed for this to be a goer?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Again a question i'd like an answer too please, how much in pledges are needed for this to be a goer?

And who bails the Club out if it goes further into debt. Million dollar questions

[blackpoolhibs]

And who bails the Club out if it goes further into debt. Million dollar questions

That's a question i'm not too bothered about, we as a club have been run that badly with a man in charge who's not bothered if we do well or not, the owner loves him and will never sack him.

A new owner has to be more accountable, and surely run the place better, its in their interest to do so. And just how many other clubs manage to do so much better than us without a lender of last resort?

When did having one of these become so necessary that its such a big thing?



PS i'm far from convinced this lot are what we need.

[Baldy Foghorn]

That's a question i'm not too bothered about, we as a club have been run that badly with a man in charge who's not bothered if we do well or not, the owner loves him and will never sack him.

A new owner has to be more accountable, and surely run the place better, its in their interest to do so. And just how many other clubs manage to do so much better than us without a lender of last resort?

When did having one of these become so necessary that its such a big thing?



PS i'm far from convinced this lot are what we need.

If it's the fans that have to bail out the debt, then that would certainly be challenging. People just don't have that much disposable income any more.....

[blackpoolhibs]

If it's the fans that have to bail out the debt, then that would certainly be challenging. People just don't have that much disposable income any more.....

:agree:

[Andy74]

That's a question i'm not too bothered about, we as a club have been run that badly with a man in charge who's not bothered if we do well or not, the owner loves him and will never sack him.

A new owner has to be more accountable, and surely run the place better, its in their interest to do so. And just how many other clubs manage to do so much better than us without a lender of last resort?

When did having one of these become so necessary that its such a big thing?



PS i'm far from convinced this lot are what we need.

You do like to mix up your ownership and running things chat.

I don't care about an owner running things. In fact I'd rather an owner didn't run it.

[blackpoolhibs]

If it's the fans that have to bail out the debt, then that would certainly be challenging. People just don't have that much disposable income any more.....

I personally think running the club through pledges wont work in a million years, but i'm willing to listen?

[blackpoolhibs]

You do like to mix up your ownership and running things chat.

I don't care about an owner running things. In fact I'd rather an owner didn't run it.

Well i disagree.

[3pm]

i'm willing to listen?

You've taken that a bit far! :o)

[BuyHibs]

Evening. I hope to see you on Wednesday to meet you, put faces to names and help answer any questions you have.

[BuyHibs]

Hope that we get an opportunity to talk to you and can put faces to names on Wednesday night. We are all Hibs fans. We are all passionate about our club... BuyHibs are not hiding behind closed doors. Come and ask the Directors your questions

[BuyHibs]

This is Ashley. One of the Directors and I am going to be online to chat for a while

[BuyHibs]

Just so you are aware, this is Ashley, one of the directors and I am going to be available to chat for a while

[Sergey]

Just so you are aware, this is Ashley, one of the directors and I am going to be available to chat for a while

Do you have sufficient funds to purchase a % of the club - if so - what % ?

[Peevemor]

Just so you are aware, this is Ashley, one of the directors and I am going to be available to chat for a while

If BuyHibs want to proceed in a spirit of cooperation with the club, why did you decline the offer to meet the board? Surely any dialogue has to begin somewhere?

[Lmc2105]

Do you have any idea how much you will need in pledges for this to be a goer?

@BuyHibs ... Ashley, could we also get the above question answered as well. Thanks EP :aok:

[marinello59]

Why did you ask fans for pledges of their hard earned cash initially then downplay that to mere pledges of support after a couple of days?

[BuyHibs]

Do you have sufficient funds to purchase a % of the club - if so - what % ?

Sergey, I wish could give you a conclusive answer. It depends on what the current owners want. I know that is a vague answer. But any investor would need to understand the £ value of the proposed investment before committing fully. We will only know that when/if the owners disclose it

[Bostonhibby]

Sergey, I wish could give you a conclusive answer. It depends on what the current owners want. I know that is a vague answer. But any investor would need to understand the £ value of the proposed investment before committing fully. We will only know that when/if the owners disclose it

If you won't talk to the board or Farmers nominated rep, how are you going to find out if there is a £ value? It doesn't feel like Farmer is looking for a buyer so a hostile bid seems to be a non starter if he doesn't see any reason to speak to you?

[BuyHibs]

If BuyHibs want to proceed in a spirit of cooperation with the club, why did you decline the offer to meet the board? Surely any dialogue has to begin somewhere?

It was a unanimous decision by all involved at BuyHibs to reject the invitation to talk to the board as they are not the owners of the club and therefore not decision makers. The ownership of the club is not in the hands of the board and we have a desire to work with Sir Tom to fulfil his desire to return the club to the community

[Peevemor]

Sergey, I wish could give you a conclusive answer. It depends on what the current owners want. I know that is a vague answer. But any investor would need to understand the £ value of the proposed investment before committing fully. We will only know that when/if the owners disclose it

Do you not think though that STF, should he be of a mind to sell, is capable of varying the asking price depending on the proposed long term plans for the club and the identity of the major investors? The BuyHibs project from the outside, seems pretty vague with more than a hint of mystery chucked in.

[blackpoolhibs]

What is your next move if STF is adamant he wont meet you, and will only speak through the board?

[marinello59]

It was a unanimous decision by all involved at BuyHibs to reject the invitation to talk to the board as they are not the owners of the club and therefore not decision makers. The ownership of the club is not in the hands of the board and we have a desire to work with Sir Tom to fulfil his desire to return the club to the community



Wouldn't meeting the board have been a good start to forming a working relationship? Or are there some directors of BuyHibs who will not deal with Leeann Dempster and/or Rod Petrie?

[BuyHibs]

@BuyHibs ... Ashley, could we also get the above question answered as well. Thanks EP :aok:

Again, a moving target. Initially fan pledges would buy shares in the club to ensure we have a minimum of 25 +1% shares. This will ensure we have enough say in the club that will secure our future.


Until we know what the current owners want in terms of price we can only speculate.

[Peevemor]

It was a unanimous decision by all involved at BuyHibs to reject the invitation to talk to the board as they are not the owners of the club and therefore not decision makers. The ownership of the club is not in the hands of the board and we have a desire to work with Sir Tom to fulfil his desire to return the club to the community



If STF digs his heels in and says that you have to run your project past the board in the first instance before you get a head to head with him, you'll surely have to go back on your initial refusal, possibly losing some goodwill and credibility in the process?

[BuyHibs]

What is your next move if STF is adamant he wont meet you, and will only speak through the board?

If our owners refuse to engage with fans… it’s a very very strong message to all of us

[blackpoolhibs]

If our owners refuse to engage with fans… it’s a very very strong message to all of us


Thats not whats happened tough is it?

[BuyHibs]

If STF digs his heels in and says that you have to run your project past the board in the first instance before you get a head to head with him, you'll surely have to go back on your initial refusal, possibly losing some goodwill and credibility in the process?

I reiterate, that as Hibs fans – we are all left speculating what is going on with our club when our owners will not engage in dialogue. We are all left wondering what is happening. Is that not why we are all on line asking questions tonight?
Credibility and goodwill is something that BuyHibs will earn by being open and honest with the Hibs Family

[Bostonhibby]

Again, a moving target. Initially fan pledges would buy shares in the club to ensure we have a minimum of 25 +1% shares. This will ensure we have enough say in the club that will secure our future.


Until we know what the current owners want in terms of price we can only speculate.


If, hypothetically Farmer will sell to Buyhibs for say £5m but you don't have buy in from the ordinary fanbase and have pledges of only £1m where is the rest of the money coming from to acquire the 25% or does the model fail there?

[BuyHibs]

Thats not whats happened tough is it?

The board will enter dialogue - that's all

[Peevemor]

If our owners refuse to engage with fans… it’s a very very strong message to all of us


Surely it works both ways though? Given the involvement of Kano and Pat Stanton BuyHibs seems to have evolved from Petrie Out/Forever Hibernian. Therefore there's already a history of confrontation. Is it not for BuyHibs to make the first conciliatory gesture, ie. meet the board as proposed?

[blackpoolhibs]

The board will enter dialogue - that's all


Which has part owner Petrie in it.

[Peevemor]

I reiterate, that as Hibs fans – we are all left speculating what is going on with our club when our owners will not engage in dialogue. We are all left wondering what is happening. Is that not why we are all on line asking questions tonight?
Credibility and goodwill is something that BuyHibs will earn by being open and honest with the Hibs Family





Official communication about Hibs has always come from the club and never STF. The new CEO seems far more open than here predecessors, so I think your non-communication complaint is pretty unfair.

[bigwheel]

I reiterate, that as Hibs fans – we are all left speculating what is going on with our club when our owners will not engage in dialogue. We are all left wondering what is happening. Is that not why we are all on line asking questions tonight?
Credibility and goodwill is something that BuyHibs will earn by being open and honest with the Hibs Family





Do you not feel the support of some on the board would be helpful to secure any deal?

[BuyHibs]

If, hypothetically Farmer will sell to Buyhibs for say £5m but you don't have buy in from the ordinary fanbase and have pledges of only £1m where is the rest of the money coming from to acquire the 25% or does the model fail there?

Without significant buy in from the fans – there is no club. The fans are the lifeblood of the club and that is what has been missing for years.
We are in dire straits whether the regime remains as is, whether we have new invertors or a change in structure, if we don’t have buy in from our fans.
BuyHibs is a fan led initiative for fan ownership. Not club/management led. We are attempting to unite the fan voice to be heard. If there is no voices, there is no noise….

[BuyHibs]

Which has part owner Petrie in it.

From what I understand, Mr Petrie has approx. 8% share
I could be wrong

[bigwheel]

Without significant buy in from the fans – there is no club. The fans are the lifeblood of the club and that is what has been missing for years.
We are in dire straits whether the regime remains as is, whether we have new invertors or a change in structure, if we don’t have buy in from our fans.
BuyHibs is a fan led initiative for fan ownership. Not club/management led. We are attempting to unite the fan voice to be heard. If there is no voices, there is no noise….


These dire straits type of comments just come over as emotive and scare mongering....a decent set of results will help fans fall back in love with our club...

[CropleyWasGod]

From what I understand, Mr Petrie has approx. 8% share
I could be wrong

To clarify.

RP has no shares in the club. He does own 10% of the shares in the holding company. The holding company has 98% of the shares in the club.

[BuyHibs]

Do you not feel the support of some on the board would be helpful to secure any deal?

Much of the existing board has been a part of the decision making journey to our current position. This is a different discussion. This is about positive change through fan ownership that can only take place with the owners

After a deal is reached, yes - massive discussions must and will talk place

[marinello59]

Without significant buy in from the fans – there is no club. The fans are the lifeblood of the club and that is what has been missing for years.
We are in dire straits whether the regime remains as is, whether we have new invertors or a change in structure, if we don’t have buy in from our fans.
BuyHibs is a fan led initiative for fan ownership. Not club/management led. We are attempting to unite the fan voice to be heard. If there is no voices, there is no noise….



You haven't answered the question though.

[Peevemor]

Without significant buy in from the fans – there is no club. The fans are the lifeblood of the club and that is what has been missing for years.
We are in dire straits whether the regime remains as is, whether we have new invertors or a change in structure, if we don’t have buy in from our fans.
BuyHibs is a fan led initiative for fan ownership. Not club/management led. We are attempting to unite the fan voice to be heard. If there is no voices, there is no noise….


If the current team (CEO and coaching set-up) are given the time and support to get us back in the SPL and continue to make progress both on and of the field, where's the crisis you're hinting at?

Sorry if I'm coming across as negative toward the end of . Like many I want to know convinced, but I don't want change just for the sake of it.

[Peevemor]

These dire straits type of comments just come over as emotive and scare mongering....a decent set of results will help fans fall back in love with our club...

:agree:

[grunt]

We are in dire straits whether the regime remains as is, whether we have new invertors or a change in structure, if we don’t have buy in from our fans.Can you please clarify what you mean by dire straits in this context? Are you referring to the performance of the team on the pitch (which has nothing to do with the owner) or are you implying there are other problems?

[marinello59]

Wouldn't meeting the board have been a good start to forming a working relationship? Or are there some directors of BuyHibs who will not deal with Leeann Dempster and/or Rod Petrie?

I guess you are ignoring this one because I worded it badly. Sorry.
Are there some directors of BuyHibs who would rather not move things forward by accepting compromise than deal with either RP or LD?

[Bostonhibby]

Without significant buy in from the fans – there is no club. The fans are the lifeblood of the club and that is what has been missing for years.
We are in dire straits whether the regime remains as is, whether we have new invertors or a change in structure, if we don’t have buy in from our fans.
BuyHibs is a fan led initiative for fan ownership. Not club/management led. We are attempting to unite the fan voice to be heard. If there is no voices, there is no noise….


I hear what you say in the context of the buyhibs plan but we are not in a situation where its do a deal along the buyhibs lines or the club dies (the hearts post admin option) I am going to suggest the club doesn't die the day after buyhibs bid ends if that is the outcome.

Many on here have the beginnings of faith in what Dempster is doing (but want Petrie out) and feel that is more tangible at the moment, and under her stewardship there is a desire to hear the clubs plans too, perhaps even the same desire exists to hear about other bid plans / options(?)

Like it or not there are hearts and minds to be won over about the approach of excluding the board from any talks and there may not be majority / popular support for fan ownership of the kind proposed or without more details of any mystery backers or buyers - if someone is behind the scenes with cash and is the type of fan alluded to then there might be an advantage to be gained by going public about backers. Just a thought.

[grunt]

Can you please explain what has fuelled your concern about the separation of club and ER and EM?

[BuyHibs]

These dire straits type of comments just come over as emotive and scare mongering....a decent set of results will help fans fall back in love with our club...


Its really not scaremongering. We have all been part of the down times over the last number of seasons. Great results on the park is exactly what we all want. But let’s reflect over the last 10 seasons. We have had runs, we have had ups (and downs.)
To keep the upward trajectory and trends we need investment, we need ambition and we need football decisions made for the club. Not just for this season, but for the generations to come.
We are worried Hibs fans just like you

[BuyHibs]

I guess you are ignoring this one because I worded it badly. Sorry.
Are there some directors of BuyHibs who would rather not move things forward by accepting compromise than deal with either RP or LD?


All that BuyHibs want is quality dialogue to understand the intention of the owners at this stage

[HappyAsHellas]

If it's not scaremongering, perhaps you can tell us why the club is in dire straits?

[BroxburnHibee]

It was a unanimous decision by all involved at BuyHibs to reject the invitation to talk to the board as they are not the owners of the club and therefore not decision makers. The ownership of the club is not in the hands of the board and we have a desire to work with Sir Tom to fulfil his desire to return the club to the community



Utterly ridiculous position to take. In my opinion this whole setup is waste of time.

[BuyHibs]

Can you please explain what has fuelled your concern about the separation of club and ER and EM?


Think about what Hibernian FC would look like if we were stripped of our assets…

[grunt]

To keep the upward trajectory and trends we need investment ...Where are you going to get the investment from? It appears unlikely that the fans will commit significant sums in the manner that Hearts fans have, so where will your investment come from? If you have backers behind the scenes willing to fund investment in the club, why are they not showing their faces, and when will you disclose their identities and the funds they have access to?

There was a comment earlier about BuyHibs not disclosing their funds as they did not want to influence STF valuation of the club. Do you really believe that STF would ask more if he thought you had substantial backing? If this is the case, how did you arrive at this conclusion?

[BroxburnHibee]

Its really not scaremongering. We have all been part of the down times over the last number of seasons. Great results on the park is exactly what we all want. But let’s reflect over the last 10 seasons. We have had runs, we have had ups (and downs.)
To keep the upward trajectory and trends we need investment, we need ambition and we need football decisions made for the club. Not just for this season, but for the generations to come.
We are worried Hibs fans just like you


Your comment suggests we're all worried. I'm not.

[Peevemor]

Its really not scaremongering. We have all been part of the down times over the last number of seasons. Great results on the park is exactly what we all want. But let’s reflect over the last 10 seasons. We have had runs, we have had ups (and downs.)
To keep the upward trajectory and trends we need investment, we need ambition and we need football decisions made for the club. Not just for this season, but for the generations to come.
We are worried Hibs fans just like you


Leeann Dempster was head hunted and appointed to deal with your "football decisions" point and, up until now, she seems to have made a difficult but decent start. Who do BuyHibs have in mind to make football decisions?

[grunt]

Think about what Hibernian FC would look like if we were stripped of our assets…
So do you think that the current ownership and / or Board intend to strip Hibs of their assets? if so, what has led you to this conclusion?

[BuyHibs]

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to chat to you. I will be at the game tomorrow, and I will happily chat to you then. Otherwise I urge you to come and meet myself and the other BuyHibs team. We are all as passionate as you about Hibs and only want to secure our club for the future

[marinello59]

All that BuyHibs want is quality dialogue to understand the intention of the owners at this stage


That's not really answered the question. :greengrin.
But as a group in it's early stages surely meeting the board (which includes part owner RP) is a good starting point . i Surely you have noticed that this decision has divided the fans you want and need to unite behind you?

[Peevemor]

Think about what Hibernian FC would look like if we were stripped of our assets…


With respect, statements/innuendo like that aren't going to get you your meeting with STF.

[Peevemor]

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to chat to you. I will be at the game tomorrow, and I will happily chat to you then. Otherwise I urge you to come and meet myself and the other BuyHibs team. We are all as passionate as you about Hibs and only want to secure our club for the future

OK. Night night.

[marinello59]

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to chat to you. I will be at the game tomorrow, and I will happily chat to you then. Otherwise I urge you to come and meet myself and the other BuyHibs team. We are all as passionate as you about Hibs and only want to secure our club for the future

Thanks for appearing here tonight.
Hopefully there are more answers given at your Q and A sessions.

[bigwheel]

Much of the existing board has been a part of the decision making journey to our current position. This is a different discussion. This is about positive change through fan ownership that can only take place with the owners

After a deal is reached, yes - massive discussions must and will talk place


A positive change would require board support, if you know STF at all you will realise he respects the role of the board, engage them or your approach will continue to come over as manipulative and disrespectful.

[Bostonhibby]

Think about what Hibernian FC would look like if we were stripped of our assets…


The quality of the debate and maybe buyhibs credibility could rocket if it was possible to share what the indicators are that the assets are to be removed anytime soon, and if so which ones, and how it will be to the detriment of the football club.

The people in a position to do this are the directors of HFC Holdings Petrie and Farmer, neither of whom have spoken formally with Buyhibs for whatever reason.If this is going to happen in the foreseeable future then evidence of it now is definitely a good way to get fans on board.

[blackpoolhibs]

Lets hope when you are asked some searching questions at the Q&A you will actually be able to answer them rather than answer with another question?

[w pilton hibby]

Lets hope when you are asked some searching questions at the Q&A you will actually be able to answer them rather than answer with another question?

Yep! Replies but few if any answers and a great deal of what seems like unsubstantiated scaremongering.

Still not convinced that a fan buyout/takeover is the primary objective.

[greenlex]

Totally underwhelmed. In fact I am quite concerned by this distraction from fans based on what appears to be hearsay. To put it bluntly show us what ou're about or just shut up.

[FranckSuzy]

To be honest, if the team keeps winning (and making up ground on those teams at the top of the division), at this moment in time I couldn't care less about this. I am a Hibs fan, first and foremost, and not a STF/The Board/RP/HFC Holdings/Maidencraig Investments, etc, etc fan. Gaining promotion is much more important at present and personally, I think this is all just a distraction we could do without.

I'm not saying there are no problems or issues that need addressed at some point but just now is not the right time, IMHO. GGTTH.

[bigwheel]

Fair play to the guy for coming on and engaging in a q&a ...got to respect that - the answers though convince me that they don't have a clear persuasive proposition or rationale - scare mongering and platitudes ...weaker than I expected...

[Baldy Foghorn]

Totally underwhelmed. In fact I am quite concerned by this distraction from fans based on what appears to be hearsay. To put it bluntly show us what ou're about or just shut up.

In a nutshell.....Club stripping assets? Says who?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Fair play to the guy for coming on and engaging in a q&a ...got to respect that - the answers though convince me that they don't have a clear persuasive proposition or rationale - scare mongering and platitudes ...weaker than I expected...

Totally underwhelmed by her responses.......

[Allant1981]

That just seemed a bit pointless

[Baldy Foghorn]

To be honest, if the team keeps winning (and making up ground on those teams at the top of the division), at this moment in time I couldn't care less about this. I am a Hibs fan, first and foremost, and not a STF/The Board/RP/HFC Holdings/Maidencraig Investments, etc, etc fan. Gaining promotion is much more important at present and personally, I think this is all just a distraction we could do without.

I'm not saying there are no problems or issues that need addressed at some point but just now is not the right time, IMHO. GGTTH.

It is a distraction, I feel the Club will announce something at the forthcoming AGM......BuyHibs are not covering themselves in glory, from what I can see, and saying things like asset stripping, makes me think there is little substance and lots of scaremongering.....

[Baldy Foghorn]

Think about what Hibernian FC would look like if we were stripped of our assets…


Do you have any concrete evidence of this happening or is it hearsay?

[FranckSuzy]

It is a distraction, I feel the Club will announce something at the forthcoming AGM......BuyHibs are not covering themselves in glory, from what I can see, and saying things like asset stripping, makes me think there is little substance and lots of scaremongering.....

:agree: It all seems a bit like Hands On Hibs to me.

[Baldy Foghorn]

This is Ashley. One of the Directors and I am going to be online to chat for a while

Not one of your responses was transparent.......Smoke and mirror stuff.....

[Andy74]

That was embarrassing.

[Kaiser1962]

Lets hope when you are asked some searching questions at the Q&A you will actually be able to answer them rather than answer with another question?

I genuinely don't think they actually know. They may improve as they evolve but as off right now, they dont know.

[Baldy Foghorn]

:agree: It all seems a bit like Hands On Hibs to me.

Indeed, if no concrete evidence, then they should just shut the f up..........It's doing my head in, all this posturing and mud slinging

[oconnors_strip]

To be honest, if the team keeps winning (and making up ground on those teams at the top of the division), at this moment in time I couldn't care less about this. I am a Hibs fan, first and foremost, and not a STF/The Board/RP/HFC Holdings/Maidencraig Investments, etc, etc fan. Gaining promotion is much more important at present and personally, I think this is all just a distraction we could do without.

I'm not saying there are no problems or issues that need addressed at some point but just now is not the right time, IMHO. GGTTH.

Here here! Think the players would agree with this aswell

[Baldy Foghorn]

I genuinely don't think they actually know. They may improve as they evolve but as off right now, they dont know.

Flying by the seat of their pants.....Cringeworthy stuff

[blackpoolhibs]

There will be some who don't think this is the right time, and others who think this IS the very time we should be looking at a buy out, but in my opinion its looking clearer day by day that this lot won't be the people that do it.

[Baldy Foghorn]

There will be some who don't think this is the right time, and others who think this IS the very time we should be looking at a buy out, but in my opinion its looking clearer day by day that this lot won't be the people that do it.

Agreed........Fag packet economics so far.......

[Kaiser1962]

It is a distraction, I feel the Club will announce something at the forthcoming AGM......BuyHibs are not covering themselves in glory, from what I can see, and saying things like asset stripping, makes me think there is little substance and lots of scaremongering.....

The only thing I can envisage may be (post STF) a separation of the FC and the bricks and mortar to protect the assets from any future mismanagement of the football club. Similar to when STF came in.

At no stretch could that be asset stripping in the proper sense.

[Eyrie]

Definite own goal for BuyHibs tonight which has only reinforced my view that they do not have a coherent strategy beyond thinking that "change" is necessary and fan ownership desirable.

[Hermit Crab]

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to chat to you. I will be at the game tomorrow, and I will happily chat to you then. Otherwise I urge you to come and meet myself and the other BuyHibs team. We are all as passionate as you about Hibs and only want to secure our club for the future


Logging off now!! No wonder, you've come on here to take questions about your future plans for the club, I don't think you answered many questions at all, certainly not clearly. In fact you appear to have made things worse going on about asset stripping etc.

I thinks it's good that your group wants to change the club and get it running smoothly but until you have all the answers and concrete evidence for the fans you will continue to get slaughtered on here.

dotnet 1-0 buyhibs

[Andy74]

Definite own goal for BuyHibs tonight which has only reinforced my view that they do not have a coherent strategy beyond thinking that "change" is necessary and fan ownership desirable.

Reinforced my view that the individuals involved aren't up to it either. Very unimpressive.

[jacomo]

With respect, statements/innuendo like that aren't going to get you your meeting with STF.

:agree:

BuyHibs ain't going about this the right way.

Anyhow, surely Pat Stanton could just pick up the phone to STF if he wanted to? All this nonsense looks like posturing.

[Dashing Bob S]

I'm all for change and in the mid to long term we have to be thinking about the post-Farmer era, and making plans (which must involve some degree of fan ownership), otherwise we'll end up with somebody pretty awful, and with highly questionable motives for the club.

I believe though, that many people are still reacting (understandably) to the Petrie era shambles of the last seven years.

I've nothing but respect for the different groups and individuals who have been coming forward to try to force things on. I believe their interventions have ultimately been helpful. Right now, I feel that too much of the impetus for change is coming from a place of anger, hurt and panic. These are essential human emotions, but acting on them solely is no basis for taking the club forward.

I think the way to do this is to let the dust settle this season, now that we're at least starting to positively transition, and get behind the team, and then have supporters groups start trying to work constructively with STF on the issue of succession. Yes, there's a lot to criticise about his tenure, but he ultimately wants the best for his club and is justly protective of his legacy. He'll want to know the club is going to be in good hands.

[Jonnyboy]

Think about what Hibernian FC would look like if we were stripped of our assets…


WTF???

I'm sick of this scaremongering. You keep saying we are all Hibs fans and want the best for the club and yet you make this statement without offering any explanation of what you mean. Then, when you are quizzed on it you decide to log off. Outrageous

[Jonnyboy]

Evening. I hope to see you on Wednesday to meet you, put faces to names and help answer any questions you have.

I can't be there on Wednesday and even if I could be I wouldn't go. Not prepared to give up my time to listen to a lot of unsubstantiated clap trap

[Andy74]

WTF???

I'm sick of this scaremongering. You keep saying we are all Hibs fans and want the best for the club and yet you make this statement without offering any explanation of what you mean. Then, when you are quizzed on it you decide to log off. Outrageous

Indeed it is. This group is beyond any chance of being taken seriously. For the sake of the club give it up.

There may be some merit in looking at long term ownership if Sir Tom wants that but these guys can't be part of it.

[Andy74]

Evening. I hope to see you on Wednesday to meet you, put faces to names and help answer any questions you have.

I don't think any of you have shown that this is worth any of our time. Saddened that Pat Stanton has put his name to this. Does he see this stuff??

[Stevie Reid]

Another cursory glance (and the fact that I'm merely taking cursory glances sums up how little credibility they have garnered for themself in this episode) at this thread proves to me beyond any doubt that the sooner BuyHibs give this all up, the better for everyone concerned.

No one with Hibs' best intentions at heart would try and destabilise the club to the extent that they are doing (especially given the recent upwards trajectory that we are on at the moment) - and alluding to such an extreme scenario, especially with the ownership structure that we have in place at the moment, is doing exactly that.

[Mibbes Aye]

Another cursory glance (and the fact that I'm merely taking cursory glances sums up how little credibility they have garnered for themself in this episode) at this thread proves to me beyond any doubt that the sooner BuyHibs give this all up, the better for everyone concerned.

No one with Hibs' best intentions at heart would try and destabilise the club to the extent that they are doing (especially given the recent upwards trajectory that we are on at the moment) - and alluding to such an extreme scenario, especially with the ownership structure that we have in place at the moment, is doing exactly that.

:agree:

This is going to be a hypothetical question for practically every single one of us (but you never know, Friday night is the EuroMillions lottery) :greengrin

Nevertheless, let's ask ourselves this.

If one of us had the money, or thought we could act to bring in the money, to take Hibernian forward.......

How would we actually go about it?

I'll speak for myself. It wouldn't be like this.

Anyone else?

[Ozyhibby]

To be honest, if the team keeps winning (and making up ground on those teams at the top of the division), at this moment in time I couldn't care less about this. I am a Hibs fan, first and foremost, and not a STF/The Board/RP/HFC Holdings/Maidencraig Investments, etc, etc fan. Gaining promotion is much more important at present and personally, I think this is all just a distraction we could do without.

I'm not saying there are no problems or issues that need addressed at some point but just now is not the right time, IMHO. GGTTH.

We are further behind the team at the top of the league than when this thread started.

[Ozyhibby]

Another cursory glance (and the fact that I'm merely taking cursory glances sums up how little credibility they have garnered for themself in this episode) at this thread proves to me beyond any doubt that the sooner BuyHibs give this all up, the better for everyone concerned.

No one with Hibs' best intentions at heart would try and destabilise the club to the extent that they are doing (especially given the recent upwards trajectory that we are on at the moment) - and alluding to such an extreme scenario, especially with the ownership structure that we have in place at the moment, is doing exactly that.

We've been losing ground since this thread started.

[matty_f]

We've been losing ground since this thread started.

Say it again another way!

[Stevie Reid]

We've been losing ground since this thread started.

From what I can see, many of your posts are flat statements of the obvious that are devoid of any nuance.

Are you impressed with BuyHibs? Or do you just share their desire to put the boot into Hibs?

[DarlingtonHibee]

Dont do it, he will only rip it to shreds. :wink:

BH - that brightened up an otherwise misreable days weather in Darlo - made me smile :top marks

[lucky]

I don't see the need for fan ownership. Certainly on the rough model that BuyHibs are promoting. Under their proposals I doubt that club would have much additional revenue as the Hibs support in general just don't want to put extra cash into Hibs. Most of us on here are ST holders paying upto £405. So paying another £240 year to get membership of group to play at running a football club just does not seem attractive. STF has done fine with Hibs. But reality is Hibs have always been under achievers. There will be very few Hibs fans alive who have seen us win the league and never mind the cup. I always believed that STF will put the club into a community trust fund and as football club we will have to run within our means.

[CentreLine]

It stkes me that there was little or no interest in anyone, this current group or otherwise, buying the club before the fantastic infrastructure that is ER and EM was completed. We can argue all we like about whether it was a good or a bad thing getting all of this done but it does look like it has this bunch foaming at the mouth for a hostile bid. One wonders where they all were when the club really needed saving and STF stepped up to the plate. I suspect we would not be hearing a peep if we were still sitting on the bottomless money pit the old stadium represented and not a blade a grass to call our own to train on.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Think about what Hibernian FC would look like if we were stripped of our assets…


Have to say, ive been sceptical from the start, but I kinda hoped you would win us all over. But the more I hear, the more you sound like a bunch of amateurs and the more convinced I am that this wont happen.

If you guys have a comms person, id suggest you shoild change them.

Im also now starting to find you a bit insulting. I think your 'trust us, we know more and better' attitude is condescending and arrogant.

[Jack]

I personally think running the club through pledges wont work in a million years, but i'm willing to listen?

I think after a million years of pledges there might be enough in the kitty to make this a goer ;-)

[Ronniekirk]

I don't see the need for fan ownership. Certainly on the rough model that BuyHibs are promoting. Under their proposals I doubt that club would have much additional revenue as the Hibs support in general just don't want to put extra cash into Hibs. Most of us on here are ST holders paying upto £405. So paying another £240 year to get membership of group to play at running a football club just does not seem attractive. STF has done fine with Hibs. But reality is Hibs have always been under achievers. There will be very few Hibs fans alive who have seen us win the league and never mind the cup. I always believed that STF will put the club into a community trust fund and as football club we will have to run within our means.

You say Hibs have always been underachievers .Whats your analysis of why that is ? and what could of been done by the owner to sort that . Leeann is now having to sort out the shambles that she inherited from her predecessor ,and appears to have managed to analyse in a very short period of time what was needed and set about getting the right people in the right jobs to start sorting things out .
If you are correct that STF will put the Club into a Community Trust Fund then why not communicate that to the Fans We are looking for more Transparency so we know in what direction our Club is heading .The less communication from STF the more speculation there is and hence the reason Buy Hibs are pushing for a meeting with him looking for answers .
I have been saying for a while now we need to hear directly from STF and others keep defending him saying he will have plans in place he is entitled to keep his own counsel .But as we are seeing the upshot of this is speculation and uncertainty .
At the present time we should all be pulling together but Imo until we get some clarity about where we are headed that isn't going to happen .

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

We are further behind the team at the top of the league than when this thread started.

And how would us having some amatuers tske over the club improve that?

If you cant see thst things have, and continue to improve on the park, then tou dont know what you are talking about.

Maybe thsts why youre buyhibs cheer leader in chief right enough...

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Think about what Hibernian FC would look like if we were stripped of our assets…


Have to say, ive been sceptical from the start, but I kinda hoped you would win us all over. But the more I hear, the more you sound like a bunch of amateurs and the more convinced I am that this wont happen.

If you guys have a comms person, id suggest you shoild change them.

Im also now starting to find you a bit insulting. I think your 'trust us, we know more and better' attitude is condescending and arrogant.

[Jack]

Think about what Hibernian FC would look like if we were stripped of our assets…


OK. I've thought about it. I don't think there is any possibility, under the current ownership, of us being stripped of our assets.

Further to that I think when the current owners are no longer the current owners they will have made virtually impossible for the future owners to strip any assets from the club.

[bigwheel]

Have to say, ive been sceptical from the start, but I kinda hoped you would win us all over. But the more I hear, the more you sound like a bunch of amateurs and the more convinced I am that this wont happen.

If you guys have a comms person, id suggest you shoild change them.

Im also now starting to find you a bit insulting. I think your 'trust us, we know more and better' attitude is condescending and arrogant.

this 100%

[Caversham Green]

OK. I've thought about it. I don't think there is any possibility, under the current ownership, of us being stripped of our assets.

Further to that I think when the current owners are no longer the current owners they will have made virtually impossible for the future owners to strip any assets from the club.

Ironically the BuyHibs proposal involves stripping the assets from the club in its current form.

[7Hero]

Oh to find a young business man with disposable funds and business acumen with an emotional attachment to the club. Farmer had the money and the acumen but sadly not the other !

There seems to be plenty emotion from buy hibs but i do not see a succesful entrepeneur or indeed any investment information which would make any difference, either to be able to buy or indeed invest in the club.

What is the point then ? How will it take us forward ? Fair enough we lack ambition / investment / managemnet the last few years (which utterly kills me) but at least we know what we are getting. Can't see it improving just because we oust Farmer, i would consider a buyout by these guys right now as a seriously bad option.


Feel free to prove otherwise though..

[blackpoolhibs]

BH - that brightened up an otherwise misreable days weather in Darlo - made me smile :top marks

We obviously disagree about the need for a new owner, but where we do agree is this lot are not it. :wink:

[grunt]

Ironically the BuyHibs proposal involves stripping the assets from the club in its current form.

Not sure what you mean by this?

[7Hero]

There will be some who don't think this is the right time, and others who think this IS the very time we should be looking at a buy out, but in my opinion its looking clearer day by day that this lot won't be the people that do it.

its a buy out for the sake of a buyout !

[Hibbyradge]

This reminds me of how SWP union reps used to "negotiate" with management.

Another analogy - if you want to buy my house, speak to my solicitor or estate agent.

You're not getting to negotiate directly with me, so if you won't speak to them, you won't be buying my house.

[SunshineOnLeith]

So, that's BuyHibs finished. Wonder when the next group who want to run a football club with other people's money will be along...

[7Hero]

Not sure what you mean by this?

Talk of the training ground which is estimated to cost £500,000 a year being sold.

Probably a better idea to assess, if indeed that is the cost, of how you could manage it better. Seems a fair whack of an overhead if it is correct as stated.

[Caversham Green]

Not sure what you mean by this?

According to the proposal tab on their website their intention is to move the assets into another Community Interest Comany - presumably without the attached debt or they would just convert the existing company. While their motives might be honourable, that's really just asset stripping. It's also what everyone felt so strongly about when Sevco bought the assets of Rangers FC.

I did ask why they intended to start a new company but like so many other instances here their response didn't answer the question.

[grunt]

Talk of the training ground which is estimated to cost £500,000 a year being sold. Probably a better idea to assess, if indeed that is the cost, of how you could manage it better. Seems a fair whack of an overhead if it is correct as stated.
Thanks. I guess you would also want to assess what it would cost to provide alternative training facilities elsewhere. I see a lot of people in the football world saying that these facilities are valuable.

[Caversham Green]

This reminds me of how SWP union reps used to "negotiate" with management.

Another analogy - if you want to buy my house, speak to my solicitor or estate agent.

You're not getting to negotiate directly with me, so if you won't speak to them, you won't be buying my house.

A point I made earlier is that the entity they would buy the club from is HFC Holdings Ltd, not Sir Tom Farmer. Rod Petrie is one of two directors of that company and the only one that has been active in the club's operations. If you speak to Rod Petrie you are effectively speaking to the owner.

[Beefster]

I knew BuyHibs weren't really credible but it is pretty good of them to continually demonstrate it.

Egos, politics, scaremongering, lies, conspiracy theories, agendas, incompetence and not-a-****ing-clue just about sums BuyHibs up.

[Mikey]

OK. I've thought about it. I don't think there is any possibility, under the current ownership, of us being stripped of our assets.

Further to that I think when the current owners are no longer the current owners they will have made virtually impossible for the future owners to strip any assets from the club.

And as I posted on the PM board, why wait 20 years to strip the club of those assets. If he was going to do that he wouldn't have built 4 new stands and a training centre.

[Peevemor]

its a buy out for the sake of a buyout !

That's the way it looks to me at the moment. I'd happily give a wee bit of dosh every month but I'm far from convinced by this project as it stands.

[Leithenhibby]

To be honest, if the team keeps winning (and making up ground on those teams at the top of the division), at this moment in time I couldn't care less about this. I am a Hibs fan, first and foremost, and not a STF/The Board/RP/HFC Holdings/Maidencraig Investments, etc, etc fan. Gaining promotion is much more important at present and personally, I think this is all just a distraction we could do without.

I'm not saying there are no problems or issues that need addressed at some point but just now is not the right time, IMHO. GGTTH.

Nail, Hammer, Head. :agree: At this moment and time, this is doing more damage than good as all we have ever wanted was a team on the park. Now that Stubbsy is making inroads, granted it's not huge, but it's not what we need right now. :wink:

[Ozyhibby]

And how would us having some amatuers tske over the club improve that?

If you cant see thst things have, and continue to improve on the park, then tou dont know what you are talking about.

Maybe thsts why youre buyhibs cheer leader in chief right enough...

While I believe in fan ownership I must admit that the people running BuyHibs have left me exasperated by their ineptitude.
There is no reason why a fan ownership model cannot work but if it's to happen at Hibs I think it will need to be instigated by the club.
I'm withdrawing my support until they get their act together or get new people in to run it. It's been quite shambolic.

[CentreLine]

Would it be such a daft suggestion to have people pledge a regular amount (yes I mean over and above ST money) and put it directly in to the club as it stands? Forget all this buy out stuff and just get behind the club? A bit radical I know but...........

[Ozyhibby]

From what I can see, many of your posts are flat statements of the obvious that are devoid of any nuance.

Are you impressed with BuyHibs? Or do you just share their desire to put the boot into Hibs?

I'm not impressed with BuyHibs. I think the idea is a good one and there is no reason it can't work but unfortunately I don't think these guys are capable.
Getting called out for stating the obvious on here ain't so bad. I think it's needed on here quite a bit.

[Ozyhibby]

Would it be such a daft suggestion to have people pledge a regular amount (yes I mean over and above ST money) and put it directly in to the club as it stands? Forget all this buy out stuff and just get behind the club? A bit radical I know but...........

Do you trust them to spend it well? It's not lack of money that sees us where we are. It's the disastrous way the club has been run.

[Ozyhibby]

Btw, has Paul Kane been sidelined by BuyHibs?

[CentreLine]

........then over time, if that proved successful on the park and proved a self sustaining model, maybe the pledge money could be diverted to a buyout project. It just seems to me there are a minority of people (fans) who want to creat division and divert money away from the club right now when it needs it most.

[FranckSuzy]

Would it be such a daft suggestion to have people pledge a regular amount (yes I mean over and above ST money) and put it directly in to the club as it stands? Forget all this buy out stuff and just get behind the club? A bit radical I know but...........

The thing is, these schemes already exist but the uptake isn't that great :cb

[Leithenhibby]

If our owners refuse to engage with fans… it’s a very very strong message to all of us


Wow, just wow............... :confused:

[CentreLine]

Do you trust them to spend it well? It's not lack of money that sees us where we are. It's the disastrous way the club has been run.

Yes I think they would. It looks to me like the club has made terrific decisions about redevelopment of the stadium at times when materials and labour have been cheep. It also looks to me like they now have the playing structure heading in the right direction. What else do we really need but funds for that structure to put on to the playing and development squad

[Ozyhibby]

Yes I think they would. It looks to me like the club has made terrific decisions about redevelopment of the stadium at times when materials and labour have been cheep. It also looks to me like they now have the playing structure heading in the right direction. What else do we really need but funds for that structure to put on to the playing and development squad

If the club want to they could have a good old fashioned share issue.

[Caversham Green]

If the club want to they could have a good old fashioned share issue.

Not without converting to a plc first.

[7Hero]

:agree:

This is going to be a hypothetical question for practically every single one of us (but you never know, Friday night is the EuroMillions lottery) :greengrin

Nevertheless, let's ask ourselves this.

If one of us had the money, or thought we could act to bring in the money, to take Hibernian forward.......

How would we actually go about it?

I'll speak for myself. It wouldn't be like this.

Anyone else?

i couldn't agree more, i think the issue here is they need the fans money as they have none of there own. Hence why they are doing everything in public.

If you had the money you would do the deal and would need nobody else to tell while doin it..

[Stevie Reid]

I'm not impressed with BuyHibs. I think the idea is a good one and there is no reason it can't work but unfortunately I don't think these guys are capable.
Getting called out for stating the obvious on here ain't so bad. I think it's needed on here quite a bit.

Fair enough. I agree with your first and last points - unsure about my feelings on fan ownership.

[grunt]

There is no reason why a fan ownership model cannot work... I keep hearing this, but is there another professional club in Scotland or in England which is owned by the fans? I know that Hearts are heading that way, but at present they are owned by a single benevolent owner - who managed to get them for a song. I don't see how Hibs fans could possibly gather the funds to own the club. I could of course be completely wrong.

[CropleyWasGod]

According to the proposal tab on their website their intention is to move the assets into another Community Interest Comany - presumably without the attached debt or they would just convert the existing company. While their motives might be honourable, that's really just asset stripping. It's also what everyone felt so strongly about when Sevco bought the assets of Rangers FC.

I did ask why they intended to start a new company but like so many other instances here their response didn't answer the question.

Interestingly, that tab suggests that they see the "club" as separate assets from EM and ER.

[grunt]

Interestingly, that tab suggests that they see the "club" as separate assets from EM and ER.Just a wild guess here, but I'm thinking that you would perhaps suggest that wouldn't have happened if they'd an accountant on their team! ;)

[offshorehibby]

Ok, who's all going on Monday or Wednesday to the Q&A session at the Hibs club.

[Jack]

Just a wild guess here, but I'm thinking that you would perhaps suggest that wouldn't have happened if they'd an accountant on their team! ;)

Maybe suggesting a team complete with the appropriate expertise would put forward a more considered proposal than one full of PR folk all too ready to believe their own press.

[bigwheel]

Ok, who's all going on Monday or Wednesday to the Q&A session at the Hibs club.

I'm expecting a fairly low turn out...perhaps the biggest piece of feedback they will get

[Forza Fred]

I'm expecting a fairly low turn out...perhaps the biggest piece of feedback they will get

I don't doubt for one minute their good intentions, but I think the vast majority of punters have already decided that this scheme won't fly.

[bigwheel]

I don't doubt for one minute their good intentions, but I think the vast majority of punters have already decided that this scheme won't fly.

I agree with that. The lack of willingness to go in to constructive dialogue with the board, and the scaremongering messages without any explanation have been big mistakes. Their only way back is to hold up their hands that they got it wrong and go and engage with the board......disappointing really, as whilst I remain unconvinced about the model, I would have welcomed a genuine alternative...

[Phil D. Rolls]

Reassuring to read this thread. It's good to see that suspicions that this was a bunch of well meaning loud mouths, without any semblance of a plan, appear to have been confirmed.

[Caversham Green]

I keep hearing this, but is there another professional club in Scotland or in England which is owned by the fans? I know that Hearts are heading that way, but at present they are owned by a single benevolent owner - who managed to get them for a song. I don't see how Hibs fans could possibly gather the funds to own the club. I could of course be completely wrong.

There's AFC Wimbledon - 75%+ owned by a supporters' trust. They seem to be doing ok, but I'm not convinced they'll go much further than they have to date. Different circumstances as well.

[Caversham Green]

Interestingly, that tab suggests that they see the "club" as separate assets from EM and ER.

Also interesting to note from the very first post on this thread that their intention is to buy "the club, ground and training ground". Sir Tom Farmer is not the owner of those assets, Hibernian Football Club Ltd is - but they won't discuss the matter with the directors.

[greenginger]

Interestingly, that tab suggests that they see the "club" as separate assets from EM and ER.


I would sleep a lot easier if the ER and EM were separate assets from the footballing side of the business and held in some kind of not-for-profit trust or community ownership with well-being Hibernian F C as its core purpose.

Not that I think ER could be demolished and flats built, but reckless borrowing could see the assets fall into the control of a property company or the like who would use the football club as an income source.

Coventry City had to move out of the ground a couple of years ago because of the demands of the stadium owners.

There are a lot of sharks with money to lend for a price, and very few, if any, benevolent lenders. And , I have my doubts if any of the people I have seen advocating fan ownership would know the difference.

[Caversham Green]

I would sleep a lot easier if the ER and EM were separate assets from the footballing side of the business and held in some kind of not-for-profit trust or community ownership with well-being Hibernian F C as its core purpose.

Not that I think ER could be demolished and flats built, but reckless borrowing could see the assets fall into the control of a property company or the like who would use the football club as an income source.

Coventry City had to move out of the ground a couple of years ago because of the demands of the stadium owners.

There are a lot of sharks with money to lend for a price, and very few, if any, benevolent lenders. And , I have my doubts if any of the people I have seen advocating fan ownership would know the difference.

Although I can see your point, I take rather the opposite view. Coventry's problems have arisen as a direct result of the stadium being operated by a different company and I feel separation would make sale of the assets a bit easier than if they were integrated. I think it's a lawyer's/accountant's solution to a problem that can be avoided in other ways. From an accountant's point of view Straiton for us and Murrayfield for the yams were excellent ideas and TBH I'm not entirely convinced either would have been as bad as most were predicting. They don't work emotionally though, and football is really all about emotions.

I maintain that conversion to a Community Interest Company is the way to go regardless of who owns the club. In fact, I think it becomes less relevant under the BuyHibs model but in my view their first move should have been to lobby Sir Tom Farmer to make that conversion.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I keep hearing this, but is there another professional club in Scotland or in England which is owned by the fans? I know that Hearts are heading that way, but at present they are owned by a single benevolent owner - who managed to get them for a song. I don't see how Hibs fans could possibly gather the funds to own the club. I could of course be completely wrong.

There is - I think it's Exeter City. I read an article in 442 recently about how it's a struggle. It was in one of the last 2 issues.

[jacomo]

There's AFC Wimbledon - 75%+ owned by a supporters' trust. They seem to be doing ok, but I'm not convinced they'll go much further than they have to date. Different circumstances as well.

AFC Wimbledon is an amazing success story, by any standards. If they manage to build a new stadium back near the site of the old Plough Lane ground then they will have a club roughly the same size as Hibs.

Worth remembering though that they were created out of a crisis, as their club literally deserted the fans and went to Milton Keynes.

[superfurryhibby]

Although I can see your point, I take rather the opposite view. Coventry's problems have arisen as a direct result of the stadium being operated by a different company and I feel separation would make sale of the assets a bit easier than if they were integrated. I think it's a lawyer's/accountant's solution to a problem that can be avoided in other ways. From an accountant's point of view Straiton for us and Murrayfield for the yams were excellent ideas and TBH I'm not entirely convinced either would have been as bad as most were predicting. They don't work emotionally though, and football is really all about emotions.

I maintain that conversion to a Community Interest Company is the way to go regardless of who owns the club. In fact, I think it becomes less relevant under the BuyHibs model but in my view their first move should have been to lobby Sir Tom Farmer to make that conversion.

It's not a direct comparison though. A stadium that is owned in a watertight, community owned trust is quite different from the Ricoh Arena set-up.

No matter what's been said on here, and there has been a fair bit of debate, I look forward to hearing more from Buy Hibs next week.

[Caversham Green]

It's not a direct comparison though. A stadium that is owned in a watertight, community owned trust is quite different from the Ricoh Arena set-up.

No matter what's been said on here, and there has been a fair bit of debate, I look forward to hearing more from Buy Hibs next week.

I agree it's not but in my view it creates an opening for division and is an unnecessary extra level of management in the case of Hibs.

[DarlingtonHibee]

Not sure if posted before, apologies if it has been.

Again no substance, no facts, not even a spokesperson's name.

My personal view is a journalist is trying to keep this " story" going.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/supporters-lobby-group-in-plea-to-sir-tom-farmer-as-84-back-change-at-hibernian.26007483

[Hibby D]

Ok, who's all going on Monday or Wednesday to the Q&A session at the Hibs club.

:no way:

Washing my hair

[bigwheel]

Not sure if posted before, apologies if it has been.

Again no substance, no facts, not even a spokesperson's name.

My personal view is a journalist is trying to keep this " story" going.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/supporters-lobby-group-in-plea-to-sir-tom-farmer-as-84-back-change-at-hibernian.26007483

Looks like Simon Pia using his network to keep this story alive

[Leithenhibby]

:no way:

Washing my hair

If only I had hair :wink:


Looks like Simon Pia using his network to keep this story alive

It does look as though someone is calling in a favour!!....

[oneone73]

I can't be there on Wednesday and even if I could be I wouldn't go. Not prepared to give up my time to listen to a lot of unsubstantiated clap trap

I went last night. The one thing I would say is that these guys are happy to listen and take suggestions on board. They have no ambitions to run the club, they just want to help facilitate change.
Those quick to turn to scorn, derision and bile would do well to focus their ire on those who have put us in the state we're in.
Not aimed specifically at you JC - you and I go back a long way, through our mutual pal Ali - but it would do no harm, those that can, to go along and listen and raise their concerns.They may not be the solution, but they sure as hell aren't the problem.

[monktonharp]

I went last night. The one thing I would say is that these guys are happy to listen and take suggestions on board. They have no ambitions to run the club, they just want to help facilitate change.
Those quick to turn to scorn, derision and bile would do well to focus their ire on those who have put us in the state we're in.
Not aimed specifically at you JC - you and I go back a long way, through our mutual pal Ali - but it would do no harm, those that can, to go along and listen and raise their concerns.They may not be the solution, but they sure as hell aren't the problem.:agree:the best post I've read on this subject, Drew. nae harm going along to listen to what direction they want to go in. as you mention, scorn, derision and bile will not help the position our club has been heading into, for a number of years.

[Jonnyboy]

I went last night. The one thing I would say is that these guys are happy to listen and take suggestions on board. They have no ambitions to run the club, they just want to help facilitate change.
Those quick to turn to scorn, derision and bile would do well to focus their ire on those who have put us in the state we're in.
Not aimed specifically at you JC - you and I go back a long way, through our mutual pal Ali - but it would do no harm, those that can, to go along and listen and raise their concerns.They may not be the solution, but they sure as hell aren't the problem.

As I said above, I can't make it anyway :wink:

[oneone73]

As I said above, I can't make it anyway :wink:

Maybe next time!

[BuyHibs]

Evening,

please be reminded that we have our Q&A session tomorrow at the Hibernian Supporters association Sunnyside at 7.30PM to which all supporters are welcome. We look to speak to any supporter or just wants questions answered.

We hope to see you tomorrow

BuyHibs Team

[RIP]

I can't be there on Wednesday and even if I could be I wouldn't go.

Couldn't get you along to a Hibs12thMan or LWT meeting in the past 5 years so no surprise there John. You poured your heart and soul into working behind the scenes for donkeys years. I guess the experience scunnered you with supporters initiatives?

Can't blame you really.

[Jonnyboy]

Couldn't get you along to a Hibs12thMan or LWT meeting in the past 5 years so no surprise there John. You poured your heart and soul into working behind the scenes for donkeys years. I guess the experience scunnered you with supporters initiatives?

Can't blame you really.

A lot of good that's done me too Gogs.