Johann Lamont to stand down

[Pretty Boy]

As it says on the tin.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29765415

Who's next? Jim Murphy? Gordon Brown? Has to be a big gun as the last 2 incumbents have been total disasters.

[LaMotta]

As it says on the tin.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29765415

Who's next? Jim Murphy? Gordon Brown? Has to be a big gun as the last 2 incumbents have been total disasters.

Not before time.

[Stranraer]

Completely ineffectual and by this time next week she'll be forgotten.

[Mr White]

Obviously not genetically programmed to be a political leader :duck:

[snooky]

BBC: Ms Lamont accused some Scottish Labour MPs at Westminster of being too concerned about their own interests and failing to realise that the "focus of Scottish politics is now Holyrood, not Westminster."


Yi couldny make it up. She's mair faces than the toun clock.

[marinello59]

Obviously not genetically programmed to make political decisions :duck:

She was totally misquoted on that but I guess a working class accented woman is an easy target.

[snooky]

She was totally misquoted on that but I guess a working class accented woman is an easy target.

Please tell me how she was misquoted because in the clip that I saw it didn't seem she was (unless Nick Robinson's nemesis was the editor).

[marinello59]

Please tell me how she was misquoted because in the clip that I saw it didn't seem she was (unless Nick Robinson's nemesis was the editor).

How about I swap misquoted for misinterpreted?

[snooky]

How about I swap misquoted for misinterpreted?

Sorry marinello, even when dismisinterpreted, it still is a pretty stupid thing for her to say. :idiot: <-- her, not you :wink:

[marinello59]

Sorry marinello, even when dismisinterpreted, it still is a pretty stupid thing for her to say. :idiot: <-- her, not you :wink:

It's been discussed on here before and when taken in context it wasn't that bad. Yes it wasnt the best thing to say but I doubt anybody really thinks she actually beileves that. A gift to the petty point scorers though.

[Hiber-nation]

As it says on the tin.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29765415

Who's next? Jim Murphy? Gordon Brown? Has to be a big gun as the last 2 incumbents have been total disasters.

This is massive now for Labour. Murphy wants to stay in Westminster apparently. I wonder if they'll persude Brown, there are a few half decent candidates in Scotland (Sarwar maybe) but half decent isn't good enough for Labour at the moment.

[snooky]

This is massive now for Labour. Murphy wants to stay in Westminster apparently. I wonder if they'll persude Brown, there are a few half decent candidates in Scotland (Sarwar maybe) but half decent isn't good enough for Labour at the moment.

Howz about Annabella Goldie? Oh, wait a minute .... :hmmm:

[steakbake]

A shame in many ways. Big risk she'll be replaced by someone whose lost sight of everyday life after years on the gravy train and part of the establishment: not that they're really in the inner circle - mostly clinging on by other people's coat tails.

An excellent choice would be Kezia Dugdale. Think she's the most authentic public servant politician we've seen in the Labour Party for some time.

[BroxburnHibee]

What's Wendy Alexander doing nowadays?

[lucky]

Johann steadied the ship and played her part in the referendum victory. But sadly she was never a leader. I'm hearing tonight that Anas Sawar is also stepping down after the leadership election.The Executive of the party are meeting on Sunday to decide a way forward. Personally I hope Neil Findlay becomes leader as he is a good socialist and is popular with the trade unions.

[steakbake]

Johann steadied the ship and played her part in the referendum victory. But sadly she was never a leader. I'm hearing tonight that Anas Sawar is also stepping down after the leadership election.The Executive of the party are meeting on Sunday to decide a way forward. Personally I hope Neil Findlay becomes leader as he is a good socialist and is popular with the trade unions.

You're a Labour man, lucky. How do you think it might go? Is there a bit of a shift in the Labour Party in Scotland?

How would you feel if one of the big Westminster players got it? Any you'd be happy with from that group?

[cabbageandribs1875]

very VERY disappointed johann Lamont is standing down, very disappointed indeed, will be sadly missed by the 45 :(

[cabbageandribs1875]

BBC: Ms Lamont accused some Scottish Labour MPs at Westminster of being too concerned about their own interests and failing to realise that the "focus of Scottish politics is now Holyrood, not Westminster."


Yi couldny make it up. She's mair faces than the toun clock.



she wishes

[cabbageandribs1875]

As it says on the tin.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29765415

Who's next? Jim Murphy? Gordon Brown? Has to be a big gun as the last 2 incumbents have been total disasters.



quite sure he stated a few weeks back that he's not interested in Holyrood, more perks at Westminster

[Colr]

Undermined by Ed's polit broo apparently,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29765415

This is really damaging stuff for Labour in Scotland so close to an election. With UKIP eating into them without challenge, I'm not sure it looks very good for Labour forming a UK government next year. Here's hoping as the have been utterly **** for the last years. Maybe Angela Eagle can come on and tell us how we need to be educated.

[Phil D. Rolls]

What a coward. The woman could have stood up to them at the party conference.

A waste of space of a leader who sold her country down the river, and was left with nothing to show for it. Nothing more than a Quisling.

[Phil D. Rolls]

She was totally misquoted on that but I guess a working class accented woman is an easy target.

So being working class is now an excuse for being crap at your job?

I might have some sympathy for somebody being criticised for their speech if they weren't paid to be good at speaking. Or being criticised for their English if they weren't a former English teacher.

What put me off was the way this educated woman tried to act like Senga frae Castlemilk, whilst trousering champagne wages. Yet another example of the race to the bottom.


A shame in many ways. Big risk she'll be replaced by someone whose lost sight of everyday life after years on the gravy train and part of the establishment: not that they're really in the inner circle - mostly clinging on by other people's coat tails.


An excellent choice would be Kezia Dugdale. Think she's the most authentic public servant politician we've seen in the Labour Party for some time.

Shes mad as a hatter, bring it on!



What's Wendy Alexander doing nowadays?

Counting her blessings that she got emptied by the Lidl element of the party all those years ago. There was no place for a clever woman in Scottish labour.



Johann steadied the ship and played her part in the referendum victory. But sadly she was never a leader. I'm hearing tonight that Anas Sawar is also stepping down after the leadership election.The Executive of the party are meeting on Sunday to decide a way forward. Personally I hope Neil Findlay becomes leader as he is a good socialist and is popular with the trade unions.

:faf: Sorry I thought you said "socialist"........ Oh wait.

[marinello59]

So being working class is now an excuse for being crap at your job?

I might have some sympathy for somebody being criticised for their speech if they weren't paid to be good at speaking. Or being criticised for their English if they weren't a former English teacher.

What put me off was the way this educated woman tried to act like Senga frae Castlemilk, whilst trousering champagne wages.

.

Wbere did I say it was an excuse for being crap at her job. Do you look at Facebook? A lot of stuff on there merely focused on her accent and gender.
A bit like the snobbery you are displaying here. Imagine, an educated woman speaking with the accent she was brought up with. She should have dumped her good Scots accent for something more acceptable. At least she could have thrown the r away. Your Senga frae Castlemilk comment is snobbery personified.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Wbere did I say it was an excuse for being crap at her job. Do you look at Facebook? A lot of stuff on there merely focused on her accent and gender.
A bit like the snobbery you are displaying here. Imagine, an educated woman speaking with the accent she was brought up with. She should have dumped her good Scots accent for something more acceptable. At least she could have thrown the r away. Your Senga frae Castlemilk comment is snobbery personified.

No Lamont, Curran and the rest are inverted snobbery personified, as is your defence of her.

By the way, I've shopped at Lidl for 20 years.

[lucky]

You're a Labour man, lucky. How do you think it might go? Is there a bit of a shift in the Labour Party in Scotland?

How would you feel if one of the big Westminster players got it? Any you'd be happy with from that group?

I hoping that this move by JL will strengthen the Scottish party. The SLP must get full control over its business. I believe that if a MP wants to be leader they must commit to being the Scottish Parliament by 2016. Brown is the obvious choice but I worry for the future if it's Murphy or Alexander. I know the two off them and their politics just don't sit with mine or the majority of Scottish people. They are both centralist who want all the power, similar to the way Alex Salmond runs the SNP. Of the candidates from Holyrood the 3 names in the frame are Kez Dugdale, Neil Findlay and Dew Smith. Kez is a vocal campaigner but not know for original thoughts. Neil is old school Labour and will appear to the left and trade unions, Drew is the quiet man and a thinker but I'm not sure he's strong enough at this time.
For the Scottish Parliament to be a success we as a nation need a strong opposition so Labour being in disarray is not good for democracy in Scotland.

[lucky]

So being working class is now an excuse for being crap at your job?

I might have some sympathy for somebody being criticised for their speech if they weren't paid to be good at speaking. Or being criticised for their English if they weren't a former English teacher.

What put me off was the way this educated woman tried to act like Senga frae Castlemilk, whilst trousering champagne wages. Yet another example of the race to the bottom.



Shes mad as a hatter, bring it on!




Counting her blessings that she got emptied by the Lidl element of the party all those years ago. There was no place for a clever woman in Scottish labour.




:faf: Sorry I thought you said "socialist"........ Oh wait.

Your commenting on peoples political beliefs when you clearly don't them. I suggest you read the Red Paper Collective to which Neil is a contributor too

[Phil D. Rolls]

I hoping that this move by JL will strengthen the Scottish party. The SLP must get full control over its business. I believe that if a MP wants to be leader they must commit to being the Scottish Parliament by 2016. Brown is the obvious choice but I worry for the future if it's Murphy or Alexander. I know the two off them and their politics just don't sit with mine or the majority of Scottish people. They are both centralist who want all the power, similar to the way Alex Salmond runs the SNP. Of the candidates from Holyrood the 3 names in the frame are Kez Dugdale, Neil Findlay and Dew Smith. Kez is a vocal campaigner but not know for original thoughts. Neil is old school Labour and will appear to the left and trade unions, Drew is the quiet man and a thinker but I'm not sure he's strong enough at this time.
For the Scottish Parliament to be a success we as a nation need a strong opposition so Labour being in disarray is not good for democracy in Scotland.

Aye, that interference from Westminster must be really sticking in their craw. :rolleyes:

As a non Labour supporter, Brown is the only one that might earn my respect. The rest will always be associated with the faction that worked against devolution for me. Brown might be a ****, but at least people listen to him.

If they had a slogan, for me, it would be "youse dae whit yer telt". No less patronising because its spoken in a mangled, ersatz, Scots voice.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Your commenting on peoples political beliefs when you clearly don't them. I suggest you read the Red Paper Collective to which Neil is a contributor too

I suggest there are more appropriate places for a socialist than the McLabour party, at present.

[marinello59]

No Lamont, Curran and the rest are inverted snobbery personified, as is your defence of her.

By the way, I've shopped at Lidl for 20 years.

Perhaps if you expanded on that it would make some sort of sense. As it stands it doesn't.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Perhaps if you expanded on that it would make some sort of sense. As it stands it doesn't.

I feel that Lamont and co. played on their working class roots in the misguided belief that it would make them popular with poorer people. It backfired spectacularly - for example, Patronising No Lady.

It's ironic then that the bulk of the voters they were trying to appeal to responded more readily to the articulate, middle class, diction of Salmond and Sturgeon.

I wasn't criticising Lamonts accent, I was criticising the fact that she spoke pish. If a politician scores an own goal like the genetic statement, it doesn't matter what they meant to say, it matters what people heard.

Personally, I can't see any ambiguity in that remark at all. What I think I saw was a Freudian slip from a politician who was out of her depth.

Whats worrying is that she and her cronies stood on others to get where she got. No doubt they would have pointed out the likes of Wendy Alexander's background to suggest she was unrepresentative of their constituents.

This backward looking vision of a homogenous working class is nothing more than a myth.

[marinello59]

I feel that Lamont and co. played on their working class roots in the misguided belief that it would make them popular with poorer people. It backfired spectacularly - for example, Patronising No Lady.

It's ironic then that the bulk of the voters they were trying to appeal to responded more readily to the articulate, middle class, diction of Salmond and Sturgeon.

I wasn't criticising Lamonts accent, I was criticising the fact that she spoke pish. If a politician scores an own goal like the genetic statement, it doesn't matter what they meant to say, it matters what people heard.

Personally, I can't see any ambiguity in that remark at all. What I think I saw was a Freudian slip from a politician who was out of her depth.

Whats worrying is that she and her cronies stood on others to get where she got. No doubt they would have pointed out the likes of Wendy Alexander's background to suggest she was unrepresentative of their constituents.

This backward looking vision of a homogenous working class is nothing more than a myth.

All very interesting but what has that got to do with your remark about having no sympathy with a former English teacher being criticised for the way she speaks. Or your scornful Senga frae Castlemilk remark.

[Hibrandenburg]

What a coward. The woman could have stood up to them at the party conference.

A waste of space of a leade@r who sold her country down the river, and was left with nothing to show for it. Nothing more than a Quisling.

Worse than a Quisling, she called for her party faithful to support a party she doesn't appear to believe in herself. At least Quisling would appear to have supported what he believed in.

[Phil D. Rolls]

All very interesting but what has that got to do with your remark about having no sympathy with a former English teacher being criticised for the way she speaks. Or your scornful Senga frae Castlemilk remark.

Clearly I have a communication problem. :greengrin

Re. teaching, I think somebody who taught English has no excuse for not being able to speak English - when their job is to persuade and communicate. She was as much use as a three fingered guitar player.

Re. scorn, I have no problem with people from disadvantaged circumstances, I have plenty of problem with people who dumb down their act in a misguided attempt to win votes.

Tommy Sheridan has a strong accent, I have never heard him mangle his diction, or try to win pals by playing up disadvantage.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Worse than a Quisling, she called for her party faithful to support a party she doesn't appear to believe in herself. At least Quisling would appear to have supported what he believed in.

:stirrer: I don't know much about Quisling, it's like somebody has burned all the books about him.

From what I can see, she's been stitched up by a system that's worked well for her up until now. Rather than go quietly, it's mammy daddy polis!

Typical schemie, it's everybody else's fault.

[heretoday]

Gotta be Brown. He'd certainly put a bug up the SNP rear ends and there are enough folk in Scotland who think he has a huge brain for economic matters so he would definitely be electable.

[degenerated]

This is massive now for Labour. Murphy wants to stay in Westminster apparently. I wonder if they'll persude Brown, there are a few half decent candidates in Scotland (Sarwar maybe) but half decent isn't good enough for Labour at the moment.
Jackie Baillie is making noises about it, that would be hilarious.

[Hibrandenburg]

Gotta be Brown. He'd certainly put a bug up the SNP rear ends and there are enough folk in Scotland who think he has a huge brain for economic matters so he would definitely be electable.

He'll have to work on his accent first.

"Vow now Brown cow" and repeat until perfect.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Gotta be Brown. He'd certainly put a bug up the SNP rear ends and there are enough folk in Scotland who think he has a huge brain for economic matters so he would definitely be electable.


Yeah, but there's a big queue of career politicians who think that Brown should wait at the back. Sod, what's best for their party, they've got mortgages to pay for.



Status Update
By Lesley Riddoch
Johann Lamont has quit saying some London colleagues are dinosaurs who treat Scotland like a branch office. Precisely what Yes campaigners claimed and Gordon Brown et al fiercely denied. What credibility can a new ScotLab leader have now? Johann was the first leader of an autonomous Scottish Labour Party. She was meant to be in charge of Scotland's Labour MPs -- but it seems they were always a law onto themselves. Unbelievable revelation. The party is in meltdown.



Call me what you want, but that's what's making me angry. The complete contempt for voters.



Jackie Baillie is making noises about it, that would be hilarious.

I like her better than the biting and snarling Lamont, or Curran. At least I've seen her smile.

Probably wont appeal to the boot faced women in the bingo halls though.

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/15/nicola-sturgeon-confirmed-snp-leader


we have three female leaders in the Scottish parliament. And it makes an effective contrast to Westminster.

That didn't last long. I wonder who could replace Johann and be more effective as opposition to the SNP?

Kezia Dugdale, a time bomb waiting to go off?

Margaret Curran, too close to London Labour?

[Phil D. Rolls]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/15/nicola-sturgeon-confirmed-snp-leader


we have three female leaders in the Scottish parliament. And it makes an effective contrast to Westminster.

That didn't last long. I wonder who could replace Johann and be more effective as opposition to the SNP?

Kezia Dugdale, a time bomb waiting to go off?

Margaret Curran, too close to London Labour?

:dunno: She would make sure the trains left on time.

[degenerated]

Gotta be Brown. He'd certainly put a bug up the SNP rear ends and there are enough folk in Scotland who think he has a huge brain for economic matters so he would definitely be electable.
Brown has as little credibility as the rest of them after the referendum.
There's some difficult times ahead for Labour in Scotland as a whole lot of people wish to see them removed from the political map.

[One Day Soon]

she wishes

Well that's not at all sexist and offensive.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Well that's not at all sexist and offensive.

How is it sexist? She's ugly, her gender has nothing to do with it.

Anyway it's no excuse for her ineptitude, which I'm sure you're much more interested in discussing. :faf:

[One Day Soon]

What a coward. The woman could have stood up to them at the party conference.

A waste of space of a leader who sold her country down the river, and was left with nothing to show for it. Nothing more than a Quisling.


No, a coward is more like someone who routinely posts on an internet forum deliberately trolling and throwing around made up garbage about people they know nothing about.

[Phil D. Rolls]

No, a coward is more like someone who routinely posts on an internet forum deliberately trolling and throwing around made up garbage about people they know nothing about.

What did I make up? Call me over sensitive, but that reads like a personal insult to me.

[One Day Soon]

I feel that Lamont and co. played on their working class roots in the misguided belief that it would make them popular with poorer people. It backfired spectacularly - for example, Patronising No Lady.

The ad had literally nothing to do with Lamont.

It's ironic then that the bulk of the voters they were trying to appeal to responded more readily to the articulate, middle class, diction of Salmond and Sturgeon.

No they didn't, they aimed for the majority of voters across all groups and the majority of voters voted No.
I wasn't criticising Lamonts accent, I was criticising the fact that she spoke pish. If a politician scores an own goal like the genetic statement, it doesn't matter what they meant to say, it matters what people heard.

Yes you were, you're just being dishonest about it now that you've been challenged.

Personally, I can't see any ambiguity in that remark at all. What I think I saw was a Freudian slip from a politician who was out of her depth.

It wasn't a Freudian slip it was said deliberately - though badly.

Whats worrying is that she and her cronies stood on others to get where she got. No doubt they would have pointed out the likes of Wendy Alexander's background to suggest she was unrepresentative of their constituents.

What spectacular pi5h. Johann was the most reluctant leadership candidate that could be found. If you knew anything at all about Johann's politics you would understand that the last thing she would been interested in was Wendy Alexander's background.

This backward looking vision of a homogenous working class is nothing more than a myth.

You got that bit right.

[One Day Soon]

What did I make up? Call me over sensitive, but that reads like a personal insult to me.

Your entire last sentence was made up.

[One Day Soon]

Worse than a Quisling, she called for her party faithful to support a party she doesn't appear to believe in herself. At least Quisling would appear to have supported what he believed in.

A laughable post

[GlesgaeHibby]

A shame in many ways. Big risk she'll be replaced by someone whose lost sight of everyday life after years on the gravy train and part of the establishment: not that they're really in the inner circle - mostly clinging on by other people's coat tails.

An excellent choice would be Kezia Dugdale. Think she's the most authentic public servant politician we've seen in the Labour Party for some time.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/kezia-dugdale-is-a-liar/

Kezia would be an excellent choice to continue the downward spiral the Liebour party.

[One Day Soon]

Gotta be Brown. He'd certainly put a bug up the SNP rear ends and there are enough folk in Scotland who think he has a huge brain for economic matters so he would definitely be electable.


True, but there's also a big down side with him. Not an easy man to work with.

[One Day Soon]

He'll have to work on his accent first.

"Vow now Brown cow" and repeat until perfect.

Not a problem. Salmond always alternated between his posh voice and his tartan army version depending upon the context of the interview and the audience. A bit like having two faces.

[Hibrandenburg]

A laughable post

Good, it was intended to raise a chortle but a laugh has exceeded my expectations.

[One Day Soon]

Yeah, but there's a big queue of career politicians who think that Brown should wait at the back. Sod, what's best for their party, they've got mortgages to pay for.

You're exactly wrong - again. The problem is precisely that there isn't a big queue of politicians of any sort wanting to be leader.


Call me what you want, but that's what's making me angry. The complete contempt for voters.



I like her better than the biting and snarling Lamont, or Curran. At least I've seen her smile.

Probably wont appeal to the boot faced women in the bingo halls though.


'boot faced women in bingo halls'? Are you posting from the 1970s?

[Hibrandenburg]

Not a problem. Salmond always alternated between his posh voice and his tartan army version depending upon the context of the interview and the audience. A bit like having two faces.

Again was intended to get a smirk and only someone so blinded by their Labour party loyalty could take offense.

Oh wait a minute!!!!

[One Day Soon]

Good, it was intended to raise a chortle but a laugh has exceeded my expectations.


You are, evidently, easily pleased. You know 45% isn't a pass mark right?

[One Day Soon]

Again was intended to get a smirk and only someone so blinded by their Labour party loyalty could take offense.

Oh wait a minute!!!!


You may be the perfect example of disappointed Yes bitterness. You like to make lots of sniping, bitter wee points - usually inaccurate or repeated myth - and then when you are picked up it's all "och it was just a joke, a wee bit of humour". Throwing stones and then running away. And to complete the picture there's the wafer thin skin when the Yessers have it dished back.

Only someone so blinded by their Yes loyalty could take offense....

[marinello59]

Gotta be Brown. He'd certainly put a bug up the SNP rear ends and there are enough folk in Scotland who think he has a huge brain for economic matters so he would definitely be electable.

Brown simply didn't recognise the reality of devolution when he was in office at Westminster so I really can't see how he could credibly lead Labour in Scotland.
Sturgeon is right , Scottish Labour are in meltdown.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Your entire last sentence was made up.

You've always had a problem separating opinion from fact, IMO. Fact.


A laughable post

A great response.


True, but there's also a big down side with him. Not an easy man to work with.

Is that right Joanne? (:greengrin)


'boot faced women in bingo halls'? Are you posting from the 1970s?

I think I'm probably more in touch with the working class than you are. I don't take any pride in that at all.


Again was intended to get a smirk and only someone so blinded by their Labour party loyalty could take offense.

Oh wait a minute!!!!

cycle jerk alert - I thought I was the only one that could see that.


You are, evidently, easily pleased. You know 45% isn't a pass mark right?

Again, classy debate. I just wonder how much longer you can get away with the personal insults, Joanne. :)

Note to neutrals, ODS has been given several points to respond to regarding people's opinions of Lamont. His/ her response every time is to create a diversionary screen. It's not very enjoyable at all.

[Hibrandenburg]

You are, evidently, easily pleased. You know 45% isn't a pass mark right?

Meeeeooow!

Wrong thread mate! This thread has been reserved for showing up the Labour party for the absolute shambles they are, but I guess that's why you're on here deflecting.

[One Day Soon]

Brown simply didn't recognise the reality of devolution when he was in office at Westminster so I really can't see how he could credibly lead Labour in Scotland.
Sturgeon is right , Scottish Labour are in meltdown.

This is true. They need to have a real conflagration now if they are going to reinvent themselves. If they're not then they need to get out of the way and let something else emerge as a functioning opposition.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You may be the perfect example of disappointed Yes bitterness. You like to make lots of sniping, bitter wee points - usually inaccurate or repeated myth - and then when you are picked up it's all "och it was just a joke, a wee bit of humour". Throwing stones and then running away. And to complete the picture there's the wafer thin skin when the Yessers have it dished back.

Only someone so blinded by their Yes loyalty could take offense....

Sorry, but you shouldn't be able to get away with stuff like this. It's breathtaking.

[Hibrandenburg]

You may be the perfect example of disappointed Yes bitterness. You like to make lots of sniping, bitter wee points - usually inaccurate or repeated myth - and then when you are picked up it's all "och it was just a joke, a wee bit of humour". Throwing stones and then running away. And to complete the picture there's the wafer thin skin when the Yessers have it dished back.

Only someone so blinded by their Yes loyalty could take offense....

:faf:

I've moved on thanks. It's your party that are now crying about Westminster getting their noses in Scotland's business. Oh the irony!

[Phil D. Rolls]

This is true. They need to have a real conflagration now if they are going to reinvent themselves. If they're not then they need to get out of the way and let something else emerge as a functioning opposition.

I think the choice is out of their hands. People won't forget. Edit: IMO

[One Day Soon]

Meeeeooow!

Wrong thread mate! This thread has been reserved for showing up the Labour party for the absolute shambles they are, but I guess that's why you're on here deflecting.


Oh I don't think so, it is important that you are kept grounded about the political reality in Scotland from your German base.....

I'm not deflecting on Labour - see my post above. Can you say the same about your capacity to look objectively at the SNP/Yes?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Well that's not at all sexist and offensive.

How was it sexist ODS?

[One Day Soon]

You've always had a problem separating opinion from fact, IMO. Fact.



A great response.



Is that right Joanne? (:greengrin)



I think I'm probably more in touch with the working class than you are. I don't take any pride in that at all.



cycle jerk alert - I thought I was the only one that could see that.



Again, classy debate. I just wonder how much longer you can get away with the personal insults, Joanne. :)

Note to neutrals, ODS has been given several points to respond to regarding people's opinions of Lamont. His/ her response every time is to create a diversionary screen. It's not very enjoyable at all.


I'll take you at face value even though I have already challenged you on your bizarre claims about Johann Lamont. Pick a point I'm supposed to respond to about her and I'll do it.

[One Day Soon]

Sorry, but you shouldn't be able to get away with stuff like this. It's breathtaking.

You really don't cope well with contrary viewpoints.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Oh I don't think so, it is important that you are kept grounded about the political reality in Scotland from your German base.....

I'm not deflecting on Labour - see my post above. Can you say the same about your capacity to look objectively at the SNP/Yes?

Youse dae whit yer telt! :faf:

Go back to base Agent ODS, your work is done here.

Please stop it, you're like a guy with "kick me" written on his backside.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You really don't cope well with contrary viewpoints.

At least I answer them! :faf:

[One Day Soon]

:faf:

I've moved on thanks. It's your party that are now crying about Westminster getting their noses in Scotland's business. Oh the irony!


I'm not here to defend any of the political parties - they can all stand up for their own crapness. And right now they all are just that in their different ways.

[One Day Soon]

I think the choice is out of their hands. People won't forget. Edit: IMO

The choice is always out of the hands of political parties. It's called democracy.

[One Day Soon]

At least I answer them! :faf:


The worrying thing is that you appear to actually believe that.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'll take you at face value even though I have already challenged you on your bizarre claims about Johann Lamont. Pick a point I'm supposed to respond to about her and I'll do it.

THEY....ARE....NOT....CLAIMS....THEY....ARE....OPI NIONS....

Here...is.....the ....point.....I.....would....like....you....to.... respond.....to.......

What......is........sexist.....about.....saying... ..Ms.........Lamont.....wishes......she......had.. ....as......many.....faces.....as.....the....town. ...hall....clock?

[Phil D. Rolls]

The worrying thing is that you appear to actually believe that.

That's a personal insult.



What's sexist about saying Ms Lamint wishes she had more faces than the town hall clock?

[Phil D. Rolls]

The choice is always out of the hands of political parties. It's called democracy.

Yes, that's right. :agree:

[Phil D. Rolls]

The choice is always out of the hands of political parties. It's called democracy.

Yes, that's right. :agree:

What's sexist about saying Ms Lamint wishes she had more faces than the town hall clock?

[One Day Soon]

THEY....ARE....NOT....CLAIMS....THEY....ARE....OPI NIONS....

Here...is.....the ....point.....I.....would....like....you....to.... respond.....to.......

What......is........sexist.....about.....saying... ..Ms.........Lamont.....wishes......she......had.. ....as......many.....faces.....as.....the....town. ...hall....clock?


The margin of difference between a claim and opinion is what exactly?


Here's what was posted - and its interesting you chose a point raised about JL by someone else rather than one of your own:

"BBC: Ms Lamont accused some Scottish Labour MPs at Westminster of being too concerned about their own interests and failing to realise that the "focus of Scottish politics is now Holyrood, not Westminster."


Yi couldny make it up. She's mair faces than the toun clock.



she wishes"


The clear implication of that exchange is that JL wishes she didn't look as she does facially. In the context of a political discussion why bring up her looks? It would not be the port of call you would normally see for discussion about a male politician. Of course perhaps the reference wasn't to her looks. If that is so then what was the intended reference?

[One Day Soon]

That's a personal insult.



What's sexist about saying Ms Lamint wishes she had more faces than the town hall clock?


No, you just take any contrary opinion as a personal insult. I could take your recent post saying that I have 'kick me' on my backside as a personal insult. That would just be daft though wouldn't it?

You're not very patient in waiting for replies by the way.

[Phil D. Rolls]

The margin of difference between a claim and opinion is what exactly?


Here's what was posted - and its interesting you chose a point raised about JL by someone else rather than one of your own:

"BBC: Ms Lamont accused some Scottish Labour MPs at Westminster of being too concerned about their own interests and failing to realise that the "focus of Scottish politics is now Holyrood, not Westminster."


Yi couldny make it up. She's mair faces than the toun clock.



she wishes"


The clear implication of that exchange is that JL wishes she didn't look as she does facially. In the context of a political discussion why bring up her looks? It would not be the port of call you would normally see for discussion about a male politician. Of course perhaps the reference wasn't to her looks. If that is so then what was the intended reference?

Unlke you, I wouldn't dream of saying what the OP meant by it.

You don't know what the implication was, because you didn't make the statement. It's your inference we're discussing - you assumed it was sexist, and have appear to have decided that any other reasonable person would think the same thing.

Which is kind of the way Lamont and her cabal treated the electorate. "We'll decide what's right and wrong, and youse dae whit yer telt".

[Phil D. Rolls]

No, you just take any contrary opinion as a personal insult. I could take your recent post saying that I have 'kick me' on my backside as a personal insult. That would just be daft though wouldn't it?

You're not very patient in waiting for replies by the way.

I'm out, you suck the life out of every discussion. I could spend all day shooting you down in flames, but I don't want to look any more pathetic than I already do, arguing with you.

If I was to tell you what I really think of you I'd end up getting banned, and it would just bounce off you anyway. You can claim this as a victory, well done.

[One Day Soon]

Unlke you, I wouldn't dream of saying what the OP meant by it.

You don't know what the implication was, because you didn't make the statement. It's your inference we're discussing - you assumed it was sexist, and have appear to have decided that any other reasonable person would think the same thing.

Which is kind of the way Lamont and her cabal treated the electorate. "We'll decide what's right and wrong, and youse dae whit yer telt".


What is the difference between a claim and an opinion?

You do realise that the part of your post in bold, if taken as it is written, means that no posting on this form would relate to any other because no-one would be allowed to comment on anyone else's post for fear of starting from a false point, not having been the poster of the point they are replying to?

Where and when did JL tell the electorate what you have placed in brackets?

[easty]

I'm out, you suck the life out of every discussion.



:agree:

[One Day Soon]

I'm out, you suck the life out of every discussion. I could spend all day shooting you down in flames, but I don't want to look any more pathetic than I already do, arguing with you.

If I was to tell you what I really think of you I'd end up getting banned, and it would just bounce off you anyway. You can claim this as a victory, well done.


Whatever.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Edit: I can't help myself......


What is the difference between a claim and an opinion?


You do realise that the part of your post in bold, if taken as it is written, means that no posting on this form would relate to any other because no-one would be allowed to comment on anyone else's post for fear of starting from a false point, not having been the poster of the point they are replying to?


Where and when did JL tell the electorate what you have placed in brackets?


Dictionaries - so useful for looking up what words mean. That way you can get an objective opinion on what words mean. Then you might not get the wrong end of the stick so often.

I don't think your grasp of language is as good as you think it is. It might explain why you miss some of the subtler, and imaginative points.

I didn't say Joanne (come on its you isn't it) had said that in "brackets" (did you mean quotation marks Joanne?) I said it was typical if the type of attitude I believe she would hold. Because from where I'm sitting that's how a long succession of Scottish Labour leaders since McLeish have come across.

There's a reason why Labour at screwed Joanne, and that's because you don't listen, and treat voters like they are thick.


Whatever.

:shhhsh!:

[degenerated]

Meeeeooow!

Wrong thread mate! This thread has been reserved for showing up the Labour party for the absolute shambles they are, but I guess that's why you're on here deflecting.
I think this covers most points being debated in the thread :greengrin

[One Day Soon]

I think this covers most points being debated in the thread :greengrin


Definitively the wrong Miliband. And he could quite conceivably be PM in seven months time.....

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think this covers most points being debated in the thread :greengrin

They've got one thing in common - neither will be in power next May.

[Phil D. Rolls]

:agree:

How often do we agree on anything? It's got to tell you something. :agree:

[Hibrandenburg]

Oh I don't think so, it is important that you are kept grounded about the political reality in Scotland from your German base.....

I'm not deflecting on Labour - see my post above. Can you say the same about your capacity to look objectively at the SNP/Yes?

This thread is not about the SNP (a party I've never voted for by the way) but about the absolute hypocrisy of what is know as the Labour party in Scotland. First they call out the party faithful to reject independence based on the fact that the people Scotland are best served by letting Westminster run our affairs and are now crying about that very fact.

Labour in Scotland are an absolute laughingstock and have sold out the common people of Scotland to benefit their Westminster masters and in doing so contradicted the very foundations on which the so-called working-class party was built.

[Phil D. Rolls]

This thread is not about the SNP (a party I've never voted for by the way) but about the absolute hypocrisy of what is know as the Labour party in Scotland. First they call out the party faithful to reject independence based on the fact that the people Scotland are best served by letting Westminster run our affairs and are now crying about that very fact.

Labour in Scotland are an absolute laughingstock and have sold out the common people of Scotland to benefit their Westminster masters and in doing so contradicted the very foundations on which the so-called working-class party was built.

I don't know about you, but I find it strange that criticism of the Labour leader can be interpreted as support for the SNP. Or whether any faults that the SNP have somehow makes Labours fault any less damaging to Labour.

I can't understand why anybody would widen the debate beyond the single issue of where Labour goes from here. Surely that would take the focus off what is being discussed?

Its a shame to see Labour in such a shambles. At the same time, it's absolutely disgusting to hear Joanne say that SLs focus should be on Holyrood.

It sounds a bit hard to take seriously after all that's gone on.

[One Day Soon]

This thread is not about the SNP (a party I've never voted for by the way) but about the absolute hypocrisy of what is know as the Labour party in Scotland. First they call out the party faithful to reject independence based on the fact that the people Scotland are best served by letting Westminster run our affairs and are now crying about that very fact.

That's wrong but let's not rehearse Referendum arguments all over again since that's been settled.

Labour in Scotland are an absolute laughingstock and have sold out the common people of Scotland to benefit their Westminster masters and in doing so contradicted the very foundations on which the so-called working-class party was built.

And that's wrong too. In my opinion of course.


Thread title is actually 'Johann Lamont to stand down' which I think opens it up to a range of themes, don't you?

[Phil D. Rolls]

As usual the best analysis of the state of the Labour party in Scotland today is from Wings over Scotland.
"But we will say one thing for her – she went out with a bang.
Because the grenade Lamont lobbed over her shoulder as she walked out of the door is probably the most honest thing she’s ever done in her political life. For once acting on her true feelings, she’s left both the Westminster leadership and the Scottish branch office with an almighty mess to clear up, and a softer-hearted website than this one could almost pity them as they try to pick their way through the wreckage.


Her final comments, laden with barbs at Ed Miliband, ought in any sane world to make it impossible for any Westminster MP to take over the leadership of the Scottish “party”. To put Jim Murphy or Gordon Brown in remote charge would make Labour in Holyrood a laughing stock, its proclamations of autonomy a public joke. It would hand new FM Nicola Sturgeon a stick with which to relentlessly beat whichever hapless stooge drew the short straw of being the glove puppet.


Of course, if we’ve learned anything in the last seven years it’s that just because something would utterly obviously be an act of complete lunacy doesn’t mean it’s possible to rule out Scottish Labour doing it. But if the party chooses an MP to take over Lamont’s job it’ll have done something we no longer believed possible, namely being even stupider than we thought."
http://wingsoverscotland.com/from-hells-heart-i-stab-at-thee/


Some more bitter comment there from the "defeated" side.


We could be mistaken, of course. Scotland has just 8.4% of the UK population but it provides Labour with 16% of its Westminster MPs, and Miliband might be willing to sacrifice any last shreds of Holyrood credibility in order to send someone who might carry enough weight to paper over the cracks and get most of the party’s 41 MPs returned again in 2015 to bolster his fading hopes of becoming Prime Minister.

Does anybody really believe that Ed and "Snarler" Curran would sell out Scottish Labour. Margaret - whom it is believed delivered the final cut to wee Senga last night, is hardly the sort of person to act like a Quisling, is she?

[Hibrandenburg]

I don't know about you, but I find it strange that criticism of the Labour leader can be interpreted as support for the SNP. Or whether any faults that the SNP have somehow makes Labours fault any less damaging to Labour.

I can't understand why anybody would widen the debate beyond the single issue of where Labour goes from here. Surely that would take the focus off what is being discussed?

Its a shame to see Labour in such a shambles. At the same time, it's absolutely disgusting to hear Joanne say that SLs focus should be on Holyrood.

It sounds a bit hard to take seriously after all that's gone on.

:agree:

Once you've lost your sword all you can do is try and deflect the blows. I've never understood this blind party allegiance crap even though I grew up with it on both sides of my family.

Scottish Labour failed to stand up for the Scottish electorate in favour of it's big brother and now is greetin that "it's no fair". Absolutely laughable and indefensible.

[Phil D. Rolls]

:agree:

Once you've lost your sword all you can do is try and deflect the blows. I've never understood this blind party allegiance crap even though I grew up with it on both sides of my family.

Scottish Labour failed to stand up for the Scottish electorate in favour of it's big brother and now is greetin that "it's no fair". Absolutely laughable and indefensible.

Hypocrisy of the highest order. In a sense, I'm relieved because I thought I was getting a bit para about Scottish Labour.

I can rest easy in the knowledge that they are heading for oblivion, as there seems to be nobody - at any level - in the regional, or national party, that has any idea how to stop it.

I've said all along, they'll rue the day they stood up for the union. They will have no power in London, and no power at Holyrood. Still they will tell us it's our fault for not understanding what they are saying.

I think people show blind allegiance to save them the bother of thinking for themselves. It also saves them the bother of changing anything that goes wrong.

Asylums are full of people who are convinced they are right and everyone else us wrong.

[One Day Soon]

Some more bitter comment there from the "defeated" side.



Does anybody really believe that Ed and "Snarler" Curran would sell out Scottish Labour. Margaret - whom it is believed delivered the final cut to wee Senga last night, is hardly the sort of person to act like a Quisling, is she?


When you go back and edit posts to reply like that there's a danger your additional points will be missed. Just saying.

[Phil D. Rolls]

When you go back and edit posts to reply like that there's a danger your additional points will be missed. Just saying.

Dont worry, there's nobody else reading this thread now anyway. Besides, it wasn't a reply to anything was it?

Edit: Dictionaries - an absolute boon when selecting the correct words to use. After all a thread about Johann Lamont, her personal failure and hypocrisy, lends itself to all manner of topics for discussion.

I prefer the ones that everybody else reads, how about you?

[One Day Soon]

Dont worry, there's nobody else reading this thread now anyway. Besides, it wasn't a reply to anything was it?

Edit: Dictionaries - an absolute boon when selecting the correct words to use. After all a thread about Johann Lamont, her personal failure and hypocrisy, lends itself to all manner of topics for discussion.

I prefer the ones that everybody else reads, how about you?

Do you mean you prefer the dictionaries that everybody else reads?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Do you mean you prefer the dictionaries that everybody else reads?

Yes. Better than talking about Lamont spitting the dummy eh?

[One Day Soon]

Yes. Better than talking about Lamont spitting the dummy eh?


If you say so chief. Not got a clue what point you are making now so rather than me misinterpreting it maybe you could spell it out?

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm losing the will to live.

[Stranraer]

Johann steadied the ship and played her part in the referendum victory. But sadly she was never a leader. I'm hearing tonight that Anas Sawar is also stepping down after the leadership election.The Executive of the party are meeting on Sunday to decide a way forward. Personally I hope Neil Findlay becomes leader as he is a good socialist and is popular with the trade unions.

Steadied the ship? She was far worse than Iain Gray and was a fiscal conservative. Good riddance. The only thing I'll miss is watching her lose every week at FMQ's.

[Phil D. Rolls]

If you say so chief. Not got a clue what point you are making now so rather than me misinterpreting it maybe you could spell it out?

You divert attention away from uncomfortable topics by taking discussion off track. You'd be as well talking about dictionaries, as you don't ever respond appropriately to discussion.

It seems to me you know you're doing it. You always seem to manage to miss anything that goes against your belief, and take exceptions on what you perceive to be inappropriate remarks.

Very convenient lack of insight there, IMO.

You asked me what the difference was between an opinion and a statement of fact, and we've ended up here. What a productive thread this has been for everybody!

[Moulin Yarns]

Here is a question for the Labour members/supporters on here. I know one of you claimed that Labour would be the next Scottish Government, for which I couldn't think of a worth while response.

Anyway, can you tell me what relevance the Labour Party in Scotland now has in Scottish politics? Not UK politics or European politics, but Scottish politics.

The reason I ask is this,

At Holyrood they have a total of 38/129 MSPs or 29.5%

In Europe the have 2/6 of MEPs or 33.3%

At Council level they have 394/1222 Councillors or 32.2%

The only place where the Labour Party in Scotland has any relevance is at Westminster, where they have 41/59 MPs or 69.5%

Maybe it is about time there was a Scottish Labour Party to represent their supporters.

[One Day Soon]

Here is a question for the Labour members/supporters on here. I know one of you claimed that Labour would be the next Scottish Government, for which I couldn't think of a worth while response.

Anyway, can you tell me what relevance the Labour Party in Scotland now has in Scottish politics? Not UK politics or European politics, but Scottish politics.

The reason I ask is this,

At Holyrood they have a total of 38/129 MSPs or 29.5%

In Europe the have 2/6 of MEPs or 33.3%

At Council level they have 394/1222 Councillors or 32.2%

The only place where the Labour Party in Scotland has any relevance is at Westminster, where they have 41/59 MPs or 69.5%

Maybe it is about time there was a Scottish Labour Party to represent their supporters.


What is the percentage above which you judge a party to be 'relevant' or below which 'irrelevant'? Your rationale seems a little odd. 30% is a pretty significant proportion is it not?

[Moulin Yarns]

What is the percentage above which you judge a party to be 'relevant' or below which 'irrelevant'? Your rationale seems a little odd. 30% is a pretty significant proportion is it not?


OK, put it another way, will the Labour Party in Scotland increase their number of MPs next year above the 41?

If so, why? If not, why?

More relevant, will the Labour Party in Scotland increase their number of MSPs in 2016 year above the 38?

Again, If so, why? If not, why?

Actually, why do they get 69.9% at Westminster, but only 29.9% at Holyrood?

[Phil D. Rolls]

OK, put it another way, will the Labour Party in Scotland increase their number of MPs next year above the 41?

If so, why? If not, why?

More relevant, will the Labour Party in Scotland increase their number of MSPs in 2016 year above the 38?

Again, If so, why? If not, why?

I think Labour have got a cats chance of getting more MSPs at the next election.

[One Day Soon]

You divert attention away from uncomfortable topics by taking discussion off track. You'd be as well talking about dictionaries, as you don't ever respond appropriately to discussion.

I invited your question on JL and answered it. I'm not here just to give you answers that you like or agree with.

It seems to me you know you're doing it. You always seem to manage to miss anything that goes against your belief, and take exceptions on what you perceive to be inappropriate remarks.

Very convenient lack of insight there, IMO.

I've been criticised by others for being combative and taking on arguments in detail. Whatever else I may do in debate, missing things I don't agree with isn't one of them.

You asked me what the difference was between an opinion and a statement of fact, and we've ended up here. What a productive thread this has been for everybody!

You had a go at JL for something which I challenged you on. Instead of evidencing your claim/opinion you replied by saying it was just an opinion of how you believed her attitude would be. You referred me to the dictionary. Check the dictionary, there is naff all difference between claim and opinion in this context. But regardless, you still haven't evidenced what you were saying about her and the electorate.

You've addressed me as Johann, said that if you tell me "what I really think of you I'd end up getting banned", done your kick me/backside number, sprayed the term Quisling around and questioned my grasp of language. Each to their own. Just maybe have a think first when accusing me of being the one making the personal insults or sucking the life out of discussion.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You had a go at JL for something which I challenged you on. Instead of evidencing your claim/opinion you replied by saying it was just an opinion of how you believed her attitude would be. You referred me to the dictionary. Check the dictionary, there is naff all difference between claim and opinion in this context. But regardless, you still haven't evidenced what you were saying about her and the electorate.

You've addressed me as Johann, said that if you tell me "what I really think of you I'd end up getting banned", done your kick me/backside number, sprayed the term Quisling around and questioned my grasp of language. Each to their own. Just maybe have a think first when accusing me of being the one making the personal insults or sucking the life out of discussion.

And it goes on.

I want to say this in as nice a way as possible.

I think you are a fool, it doesn't mean you are a fool, but I think you are. Evidence = my own thoughts.

I apologise to everyone else for letting this go as far as it has. It was meant to be a bit of banter, but its just gotten way out of hand.

I don't like Joanne Lamont, I think she's a hypocrite, and I think she patronises working class (what that) and poor people in general.

I have never met the woman. She's a public figure, she's paid to put forward a proposition. As such she's fair game for being criticised about her communication skills or her perceived lack of integrity.

It would have been good to have heard arguments against my beliefs, but that hasn't happened. Instead there's been an increasingly histrionic exchange of posts - I'm ashamed to have had any part in.

Finally, for the record - in case anyone thinks I am a snob. I live in Muirhouse, in social housing, and work with a lot of people with social challenges. It makes mr angry to hear politicians of all hues bleat about helping people when all they want is votes.

My views on class stem as from my experience of being expected to think, speak, and enjoy life, based solely on my upbringing and where I live. Some of he stuff I've heard around here about frustration at Labour would make most people's hair stand on end.

Doesn't matter what class you've been given, there's plenty of people at all levels that want to keep you in it.

Sorry for telling you so much about myself, and I shouldn't have to justify my views on Lamint et al. in this way - but things have been getting out of hand on here today. Getting far too involved.

[One Day Soon]

OK, put it another way, will the Labour Party in Scotland increase their number of MPs next year above the 41?

Genuinely no idea. I can see a scenario where they would fall, but another where they would rise. A lot depends upon whether the opinion polls are suggesting they can win a UK General Election.

If so, why? If not, why?

More relevant, will the Labour Party in Scotland increase their number of MSPs in 2016 year above the 38?

Probably increase. Last time was the SNP high water mark, Labour's campaign was so bad they would have performed better with no campaign and relatively minor factors would cause a number of seats to switch hands on both the constituency and regional lists in 2016. If Murphy becomes leader they will certainly perform better in organisational, political and campaigning terms.

Again, If so, why? If not, why?

Actually, why do they get 69.9% at Westminster, but only 29.9% at Holyrood?


Its a completely different contest with different things at stake and the electorate is pretty sophisticated in making judgements across different elections and referenda.

[One Day Soon]

And it goes on.....


No it doesn't. You are in my view incapable of engaging in reasonable debate. You give it out but you can't take it.

This is our last exchange. And that is a fact.

[Moulin Yarns]

Here is a question for the Labour members/supporters on here. I know one of you claimed that Labour would be the next Scottish Government, for which I couldn't think of a worth while response.

Anyway, can you tell me what relevance the Labour Party in Scotland now has in Scottish politics? Not UK politics or European politics, but Scottish politics.

The reason I ask is this,

At Holyrood they have a total of 38/129 MSPs or 29.5%

In Europe the have 2/6 of MEPs or 33.3%

At Council level they have 394/1222 Councillors or 32.2%

The only place where the Labour Party in Scotland has any relevance is at Westminster, where they have 41/59 MPs or 69.5%

Maybe it is about time there was a Scottish Labour Party to represent their supporters.


As a comparison, only fair, here are the same figures for the SNP

At Holyrood they have a total of 64/129 MSPs or 49.6%

Europe the have 2/6 of MEPs or 33.3%

At Council level they have 421/1222 Councillors or 34.4%

At Westminster, where they have 6/59 MPs or 10.2%

[One Day Soon]

As a comparison, only fair, here are the same figures for the SNP

At Holyrood they have a total of 64/129 MSPs or 49.6%

Europe the have 2/6 of MEPs or 33.3%

At Council level they have 421/1222 Councillors or 34.4%

At Westminster, where they have 6/59 MPs or 10.2%


That is a very impressive performance, though there are a number of unique-ish factors that explain it. They had an absolutely cracking core team built around Murrell at the last election. Not sure whether that will be intact next time. And Salmond was a bit like having a political Messi, certainly by comparison to the opposition. They will struggle to get the premium he brought to the table, even with Sturgeon at her very best.

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm losing the will to live.

Dementors have that effect on you. Think nice thoughts and hang in there.

[Phil D. Rolls]

That is a very impressive performance, though there are a number of unique-ish factors that explain it. They had an absolutely cracking core team built around Murrell at the last election. Not sure whether that will be intact next time. And Salmond was a bit like having a political Messi, certainly by comparison to the opposition. They will struggle to get the premium he brought to the table, even with Sturgeon at her very best.

They have absolutely nobody to compete against though. That's what this thread is about, Scottish Labour is imploding - the leader has just resigned citing Westminster interference. Yet, you still talk about the SNPs faults.

What are North British Labour going to do to stop this slide off the political map in Scotland?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Johann Lamont - Fool or hypocrite?
31 August 2014 at 15:47
It is increasingly easy to understand why British Labour in Scotland and their Tory allies in Better Together tend to keep Johann Lamont firmly muzzled. She can't open her mouth without embarrassing herself and the campaign to deny the sovereignty of Scotland's people. Including, and perhaps especially, Scotland's women.

In trying to defend the cringe-inducing #PatronisingBTLady video* Lamont offers the rationalisation - clearly dreamt up by the same hapless crew that devised the TV ad in the first place - that it merely reflects what No campaigners are hearing on the doorsteps. Although this sounds like a feeble excuse, I suspect that there may be a grain of truth in it. I don't doubt that some women say silly things. I know for a fact that many men do. Usually when they are parroting the drivel fed to them by the British nationalist propaganda machine. (There can't be many Yes campaigners who haven't seen the edges of a red mist descending when some numpty demands to know what currency we will use. Often in a manner which suggests that they imagine they have hit upon the most devastatingly original political argument of all time.)

What makes the #PatronisingBTLady thing so offensive is that Better Together's inept spin-quacks (Aye! I'm talking about you, Blair McDougall!) purposefully set out to create a composite character, stitched together from all the odd inanities that common courtesy dictates should have been afforded a veil of discretion, in order to create a grotesque caricature which was then presented as representing a typical Scottish woman.

In making this video and allowing it to be screened, Better Together has exhibited a casual, mindless sexism that would have sounded alarm bells in the minds of anybody who was not unthinkingly convinced that the absolute righteousness of their cause outweighed considerations such as decency and respect.

In defending the video, Johann Lamont demonstrates that she is either too stupid to realise why it is offensive (which is a disturbingly plausible proposition), or so wedded to the British nationalist cause that she will brook no criticism of its propagandists even when they show a sneering contempt for women which, in any context other than the effort to preserve the old order and the old ways, she would doubtless condemn outright.

* http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/lamont-ad-isnt-sexist-ive-met-women-exactly-like-patronising-bt-lady.25188745


Can anybody defend Johann against this?

[Moulin Yarns]

That is a very impressive performance, though there are a number of unique-ish factors that explain it. They had an absolutely cracking core team built around Murrell at the last election. Not sure whether that will be intact next time. And Salmond was a bit like having a political Messi, certainly by comparison to the opposition. They will struggle to get the premium he brought to the table, even with Sturgeon at her very best.

But what exactly do the Labour Party in Scotland have to offer, especially after the past few days.

[marinello59]

They have absolutely nobody to compete against though. That's what this thread is about, Scottish Labour is imploding - the leader has just resigned citing Westminster interference. Yet, you still talk about the SNPs faults.

What are North British Labour going to do to stop this slide off the political map in Scotland?

To be fair ODS responded to SNP statistics put up by somebody else. And it would be hard to discuss the future prospects of the Labour Party in Scotland without mentioning the other players. Looks like you don't want any debate at all on here, just for everybody to join in with your Labour hate fest.

[Phil D. Rolls]

To be fair ODS responded to SNP statistics put up by somebody else. And it would be hard to discuss the future prospects of the Labour Party in Scotland without mentioning the other players. Looks like you don't want any debate at all on here, just for everybody to join in with your Labour hate fest.



If my stuffs coming across as hateful, it's time to stop.

I am very disappointed in Labour, we've had Devolution for the best part of 18 years and they don't seem to have really gotten their head round it.

But that doesn't excuse unreasonable language. If the barbs have gone beyond an acceptable manner I apologise.

[marinello59]

A hate fest, is that right?

Maybe a bit strong?
Your certainly not debating anything.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Maybe a bit strong?
Your certainly not debating anything.

I'll take a step back. I admit to being frustrated at the way discussion went round in circles. I thought I had made a valid point highlighting Johanns hypocrisy complaining about London interference; I also think I've explained exactly why I object to the way she relates to voters.

[ronaldo7]

It seems Jola has just helped the SNP to shape the battle lines with SLab for the 2016 Election.

SLab owned and run by London. Some of us knew it anyway but I'm sure the electorate will find her thoughts very helpful:greengrin

They really are in meltdown at the Branch office.

[Hibrandenburg]

Maybe a bit strong?
Your certainly not debating anything.

It's impossible to debate with someone who refuses to actually debate the subject at hand and instead deliberately deflects conversation away from what others want to discuss.

It's a bit like competing with a work colleague who is intent on trying to expose your failings rather than actually do anything positive themselves. Absolutely maddening.

[Casey1875]

Not a problem. Salmond always alternated between his posh voice and his tartan army version depending upon the context of the interview and the audience. A bit like having two faces.

Do you not speak to people slightly differently? I think it is good working practice to speak to people in a manner that they will understand best. It's hardly being two faced as you insinuate. Two faced would be using your place of power to ask people to vote in a certain way, then resign for reasons that contradict that vote.

[One Day Soon]

Do you not speak to people slightly differently? I think it is good working practice to speak to people in a manner that they will understand best. It's hardly being two faced as you insinuate. Two faced would be using your place of power to ask people to vote in a certain way, then resign for reasons that contradict that vote.


To pick up where this came from earlier in the thread. Lamont was being criticised for her attempts to 'message' female voters and it was suggested that Brown would perhaps need to learn to speak differently.

Either Salmond doing this is acceptable or it is two faced. If it is acceptable then so is what JL was alleged to have been trying to do to win over the female vote - ie speaking to people in a manner they will understand best. Regardless of whether she did it well or badly.

Your point on place of power and resignation is an interesting one because there is another parallel here. Asking people from your position of power to vote for independence and a sovereign Scottish Parllament, then resigning - apparently for to go and work in London in a way that contradicts that vote.

To explore her comments more deeply this is not so much about the relationship between the Scottish Labour Party and the rest of the party. I think her comments are probably directed at certain specific backbench Scottish Labour MPs, her potential replacement and then the group around the current leader. It is interesting that McConnell was quick today to criticise those close to Miliband for their mistakes - that's code for 'none of this is Jim Murphy's fault'. Miliband does not like Murphy and McConnell is Murphy's close chum. So this stuff is less about what Yessers would like it to be about (UK/Scotland structural differences and divisions) and more about personal positioning for the next leader and the angst of JL in effectively being forced out.

[easty]

How often do we agree on anything? It's got to tell you something. :agree:

I've been out all day so missed everything after my post....but I thought exactly the same as you when I posted it!:greengrin

[degenerated]

I quite like this. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/25/bdc9dce6533d28fdd4188a73c6f63b0b.jpg

[Phil D. Rolls]

I've been out all day so missed everything after my post....but I thought exactly the same as you when I posted it!:greengrin

Some people have a great ability to unite everyone. :aok:


I quite like this. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/25/bdc9dce6533d28fdd4188a73c6f63b0b.jpg

The diversion into comedy offers some hope though.

[Phil D. Rolls]

To pick up where this came from earlier in the thread. Lamont was being criticised for her attempts to 'message' female voters and it was suggested that Brown would perhaps need to learn to speak differently.

Either Salmond doing this is acceptable or it is two faced. If it is acceptable then so is what JL was alleged to have been trying to do to win over the female vote - ie speaking to people in a manner they will understand best. Regardless of whether she did it well or badly.

Your point on place of power and resignation is an interesting one because there is another parallel here. Asking people from your position of power to vote for independence and a sovereign Scottish Parllament, then resigning - apparently for to go and work in London in a way that contradicts that vote.

To explore her comments more deeply this is not so much about the relationship between the Scottish Labour Party and the rest of the party. I think her comments are probably directed at certain specific backbench Scottish Labour MPs, her potential replacement and then the group around the current leader. It is interesting that McConnell was quick today to criticise those close to Miliband for their mistakes - that's code for 'none of this is Jim Murphy's fault'. Miliband does not like Murphy and McConnell is Murphy's close chum. So this stuff is less about what Yessers would like it to be about (UK/Scotland structural differences and divisions) and more about personal positioning for the next leader and the angst of JL in effectively being forced out.

So, would it be right to say, Johannas tea was out after a disastrous showing, she's tried to fight her corner, and nobody's taken her side. Seeing the writing on the wall, she's spat the dummy.

Basically a storm in a teacup during a leadership change, and all will be rosy once the new man is in place?

[BroxburnHibee]

Johann quoted tonight "key decisions being made without my input"

Better together right enough :greengrin

[marinello59]

Johann quoted tonight "key decisions being made without my input"

Better together right enough :greengrin

You have to wonder why the party who delivered devolution turned out to be the least capable of adjusting to the realities of it. Somebody mentioned a totally separate Scottish Labour Party being formed and maybe that is the way ahead for them.

[BroxburnHibee]

You have to wonder why the party who delivered devolution turned out to be the least capable of adjusting to the realities of it. Somebody mentioned a totally separate Scottish Labour Party being formed and maybe that is the way ahead for them.

I'm really not sure how that will work to be honest.

It will need something pretty drastic to stave off a meltdown of their vote in next year's election.

Remember 1997? In my opinion something similar will happen next year

[Moulin Yarns]

There has to be some acknowledgement that, following Johann's resignation as leader of the Scottish Labour Party, there is no Scottish Labour Party. Instead there is a Scottish branch of the British Labour Party


And there is the problem.


Dancing to the devils tune

[marinello59]

I'm really not sure how that will work to be honest.

It will need something pretty drastic to stave off a meltdown of their vote in next year's election.

Remember 1997? In my opinion something similar will happen next year

I have no idea either but they need to make big changes. Lamont is right when she says that we voted for home rule, not London rule. Adjustments need to be made quickly to deal with that.
As for next years election a lot will depend on whether a Labour victory looks likely or not. Will Labours traditional voters really turn their back on the chance to oust the Tories from Westminster?

[marinello59]

There has to be some acknowledgement that, following Johann's resignation as leader of the Scottish Labour Party, there is no Scottish Labour Party. Instead there is a Scottish branch of the British Labour Party


And there is the problem.


Dancing to the devils tune

An autonomous Scottish section of a British Labour Party could work though. I know the Scottish Conservatives are technically separate from the British Party but they do seem to manage to do things differently in Scotland what working together as needed. Ruth Davidson certainly doesn't come across as anyone's puppet.

[Stranraer]

An autonomous Scottish section of a British Labour Party could work though. I know the Scottish Conservatives are technically separate from the British Party but they do seem to manage to do things differently in Scotland what working together as needed. Ruth Davidson certainly doesn't come across as anyone's puppet.

:agree: they even have their own logo!

I knew a guy at University who was in the "Conservative Future Scotland" I think it was called and he said the only way the party will do well in Scotland again is by changing it's name, failing that, it's logo. Davidson is a strong leader. I don't like what I hear from her but she always mounts a bit of a challenge at FMQ's.

[Stranraer]

OK, put it another way, will the Labour Party in Scotland increase their number of MPs next year above the 41?

If so, why? If not, why?

More relevant, will the Labour Party in Scotland increase their number of MSPs in 2016 year above the 38?

Again, If so, why? If not, why?

Actually, why do they get 69.9% at Westminster, but only 29.9% at Holyrood?

They won't increase their number of MP's in 2015 or MSP's in 2016. Many Labour voters are annoyed at their alliance with the Tories during the referendum but also feel that if they vote for Ed and Ed Balls there is going to be more austerity.

At least the Tories are upfront about their programme for government, and I despise it, but Labour being Labour they will no doubt try to trick voters again. I've seen how it's done - we all received "warning" leaflets before the 2010 election stating:

A VOTE FOR ANYONE BUT LABOUR LETS THE TORIES IN THE BACK DOOR

A recent poll found Miliband's trust rating was lower than Cameron's in Scotland. So I'm not concerned about that joke of a party and won't be concerned until Sturgeon steps down...

[degenerated]

Ruth Davidson certainly doesn't come across as anyone's puppet.

There's a joke in there somewhere , I'm sure. But in the interests of decency and with this being a family board I'll refrain :greengrin

[marinello59]

There's a joke in there somewhere , I'm sure. But in the interests of decency and with this being a family board I'll refrain :greengrin

You are a sick man. :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

Whilst Labour continue to go into coalition with Tories in Scotland, they will continue to go into a downward spiral. My own Council in East Lothian have 10 Labour councillors, 9 Snp Councillors, and 3 Tories.

The SNP guaranteed Labour they would be allowed to govern without hindrance, only for Labour to go into coalition with the Tories.

They will pay a heavy, heavy price in the upcoming elections imo.

http://www.newsnetscotland.scot/index.php/scottish-politics/4948-concerns-raised-over-growing-number-of-labourtory-council-pacts

Jackie Baillie must be a stick on...Her name ends with lie:wink:

On another note. It seems Jola was deterred from decrying the Bedroom tax because Labour London told her to shut it. And she did.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/25/johann-lamont-quits-scottish-labour

[marinello59]

Whilst Labour continue to go into coalition with Tories in Scotland, they will continue to go into a downward spiral. My own Council in East Lothian have 10 Labour councillors, 9 Snp Councillors, and 3 Tories.

The SNP guaranteed Labour they would be allowed to govern without hindrance, only for Labour to go into coalition with the Tories.

They will pay a heavy, heavy price in the upcoming elections imo.

http://www.newsnetscotland.scot/index.php/scottish-politics/4948-concerns-raised-over-growing-number-of-labourtory-council-pacts

Jackie Baillie must be a stick on...Her name ends with lie:wink:

Isn't it common for all parties to enter in to coalitions at local government level? I'm pretty sure the SNP have been in several such arrangements with tbe Tories as well.

[degenerated]

You are a sick man. :greengrin
There's not many places I can go and actually raise the tone :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

Isn't it common for all parties to enter in to coalitions at local government level? I'm pretty sure the SNP have been in several such arrangements with tbe Tories as well.

It's happened, no denying that. It seems to have been a policy of the Labour party after 2012 to ensure the SNP were excluded at any cost.

Maybe it's just me thinking that though:rolleyes:

[marinello59]

It's happened, no denying that. It seems to have been a policy of the Labour party after 2012 to ensure the SNP were excluded at any cost.

Maybe it's just me thinking that though:rolleyes:

I have no idea but I had always assumed that party lines were more blurred at local level. Heck, I'm old enough to remember when most councillors stood as Independents. :greengrin
I'd prefer if that were still the case to be honest.


East Ayrshire is currently an SNP/Con coalition by the way.

[Peevemor]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/26/uduryves.jpg

[ronaldo7]

I have no idea but I had always assumed that party lines were more blurred at local level. Heck, I'm old enough to remember when most councillors stood as Independents. :greengrin
I'd prefer if that were still the case to be honest.


East Ayrshire is currently an SNP/Con coalition by the way.

And I remember the Snp getting some policies through the Parliament with tory help. Not saying it doesn't happen but their seems to be a shift of policy from Labour to keep the SNP out whatever the costs.

As I said, maybe it's just me.:greengrin

[marinello59]

And I remember the Snp getting some policies through the Parliament with tory help. Not saying it doesn't happen but their seems to be a shift of policy from Labour to keep the SNP out whatever the costs.

As I said, maybe it's just me.:greengrin

Sad if Labour does have such a policy though.

[ronaldo7]

Whilst Labour continue to go into coalition with Tories in Scotland, they will continue to go into a downward spiral. My own Council in East Lothian have 10 Labour councillors, 9 Snp Councillors, and 3 Tories.

The SNP guaranteed Labour they would be allowed to govern without hindrance, only for Labour to go into coalition with the Tories.

They will pay a heavy, heavy price in the upcoming elections imo.

http://www.newsnetscotland.scot/index.php/scottish-politics/4948-concerns-raised-over-growing-number-of-labourtory-council-pacts

Jackie Baillie must be a stick on...Her name ends with lie:wink:

On another note. It seems Jola was deterred from decrying the Bedroom tax because Labour London told her to shut it. And she did.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/25/johann-lamont-quits-scottish-labour


Do any of the Labour party activists know who else knew about the Bedroom Tax Schtumgate:greengrin

Kezia Dugdale? Jackie Baillie? Jenny Marra? Who knew?

[One Day Soon]

Sad if Labour does have such a policy though.


They don't, otherwise they wouldn't be in a Labour/SNP coalition jointly running the capital city of Scotland. Makes a nice conspiracy theory though.

[Beefster]

They don't, otherwise they wouldn't be in a Labour/SNP coalition jointly running the capital city of Scotland. Makes a nice conspiracy theory though.

This is the Internet. It's a human right to be able to post contradictory and easily refutable falsehoods.

[Phil D. Rolls]

So, regardless of whether Johann was inept, or just hard to understand, who's next to run the North British Labour Party? Whoever it is will inherit an organisation split by bitterness and envy - and apparently nothing more than a branch office.

It's going to take somebody with a lot of backbone (or no spine at all) to turn round the "dinosaurs" (Johann Lamont http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/jim-murphy-front-runner-to-replace-johann-lamont-1-3584120).

They are going to have to deal with a woman who has just realised all the bad things Uncle Ed has been doing to Scotland. Personally I think the next leader will have to be even madder than Jola - step forward the two obvious candidates - Kezia Dugdale, and Jimmy Murphy.

My money's on Murphy, who has been working hard on his public profile these last couple of years. But is he too west coast, and is he too much part of the machine that has become so despised throughout Scotland?

Whats Helen Liddell up to these days?

[Moulin Yarns]

A wee bit of light relief for us all. :greengrin



JoLa - A Farewell Tribute (http://williamduguid.blogspot.com/2014/10/jola-farewell-tribute.html)
Posted: 25 Oct 2014 08:45 AM PDT

I don't reckon Dolly Parton takes all that much interest in Scottish politics, but if she did her reaction to Johann Lamont's departure as manager of Labour's Scottish branch office might go something like this. Those of a musical bent who know the tune are welcome to sing it heartily.


JoLa, JoLa, JoLa, JoLa
I’m begging of you, please don’t step aside
JoLa, JoLa, JoLa, JoLa
Stay and watch your party’s prospects slide


Succeeding hapless Iain Gray
You thought they’d let you have your way
But that’s not in their DNA
JoLa…


They used you as a junior clerk
For policies out of the Ark
Dictated from Jurassic Park
JoLa…


It surely must have got your goat
Transcribing on a Post-It Note
The devo plans that Ed Balls wrote
JoLa…


Your face on Newsnight turning blue
Explaining what those powers would do
But you never had the slightest clue
JoLa…


JoLa, JoLa, JoLa, JoLa
I’m begging of you, please don’t walk the plank
JoLa, JoLa, JoLa, JoLa
Stay and watch those polling numbers tank


Though you were just a marionette
Your attributes we’ll not forget
In nightmares drenched with icy sweat
JoLa…


Your overblown debating skills
Your filthy looks that gave us chills
Your leaden jokes, like poison pills
JoLa…


Your stunning lack of bonhomie,
Your hatred of the SNP,
Your weird insistence things were wee
JoLa…


Your constant tinny little sneer
Dismissing hope and spreading fear
As Tories gathered round to cheer
JoLa…


JoLa, JoLa, JoLa, JoLa
I’m begging of you, don’t call it a day
JoLa, JoLa, JoLa, JoLa...

Stay and watch while we make Labour pay.

[steakbake]

Anas Sarwar: politburoesque.

His sole focus and responsibility is apparently to 'the party'.

Nothing about the voters...

Labour have lost their way. Jim Murphy is no answer as a leader: not because of the practicalities that he's an MP but because the message from Johann Lamont would make it seem like a big gun from HQ being sent to sort out a regional branch office. Brown holds the Scottish parliament in such low esteem that he is not interested.

[RyeSloan]

I think this covers most points being debated in the thread :greengrin While PDS v ODS has been top entertainment...this post gets the prize! (Well the pic that is not quoted does anyway)

[lucky]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/26/uduryves.jpg

Did Salmond not get his P45 after losing to the No campaign ? 2 million Scots can't be wrong

[Moulin Yarns]

Did Salmond not get his P45 after losing to the No campaign ? 2 million Scots can't be wrong


I think the difference is, and I am not an SNP member, Alex Salmond left at a time of his own choosing with the full support of his party, wee JOLO on the other hand was stabbed in the back so many times she is sieving.

Others have said it, the referendum battle may have been lost, but the war is still raging, a bit like JOLO.

It is interesting to see quite a few 'big name' Labour folks stepping back from standing as leader, even Anas Sarwar doesn't want the poisoned chalace.

[Stranraer]

Did Salmond not get his P45 after losing to the No campaign ? 2 million Scots can't be wrong

Surely even you, with your New Labour glasses on can tell the difference? Your party is in crisis, the SNP's membership has done nothing but rise and Salmond and Sturgeon remain two of the few politicians with a positive rating (+11 and +15 I think).

Doesn't it make you even slightly concerned that Miliband's trust rating in Scotland is worse than David Camerons? What a joke of a party Labour is, I honestly can't wait until the next British General election.

[DaveF]

Did Salmond not get his P45 after losing to the No campaign ? 2 million Scots can't be wrong

FFS, lighten up lucky - It's a bit of humour and you are allowed to laugh at yourself or your party now and again.

[steakbake]

FFS, lighten up lucky - It's a bit of humour and you are allowed to laugh at yourself or your party now and again.

The Party is everything. There is no humour to be extracted from the current crisis The Party is in.

The Party must recover soon to resume it's natural position of government.

[lucky]

Surely even you, with your New Labour glasses on can tell the difference? Your party is in crisis, the SNP's membership has done nothing but rise and Salmond and Sturgeon remain two of the few politicians with a positive rating (+11 and +15 I think).

Doesn't it make you even slightly concerned that Miliband's trust rating in Scotland is worse than David Camerons? What a joke of a party Labour is, I honestly can't wait until the next British General election.

Never been a new labour supporter. When Scottish Labour elect Neil Findlay as leader we will dispel the myth that the SNP are the party of the left

[degenerated]

Never been a new labour supporter. When Scottish Labour elect Neil Findlay as leader we will dispel the myth that the SNP are the party of the left
And if they elect Jim Murphy it should dispel the myth that Scottish Labour are either a party of the left or anything other than a regional branch of a London centric party.

[Stranraer]

Never been a new labour supporter. When Scottish Labour elect Neil Findlay as leader we will dispel the myth that the SNP are the party of the left

What has Labour done in the past 30 years to convince you they are the party of the left? The SNP are the best of the bunch IMO. That is to say, I'd much prefer the SSP but they shot themselves in the foot.

Your party is on the right and your preferred candidate has ruled herself out so forgive me if I don't believe a word that comes from the Labour party or it's buddies.

[Stranraer]

And if they elect Jim Murphy it should dispel the myth that Scottish Labour are either a party of the left or anything other than a regional branch of a London centric party.

I hope they do elect him. He voted FOR the Iraq war and STRONGLY AGAINST an inquiry into it. Sums him up and would confirm Scottish Labour's death. I hope the English continue to see them for what they are as well.

Two new YouGov polls have Labour and the Tories tied. Why is Miliband so useless!?

[degenerated]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/27/80f650dc19aef76b9d286cdd41c6b75b.jpg

[Stranraer]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/27/80f650dc19aef76b9d286cdd41c6b75b.jpg

:faf: I hope Eric Joyce takes over. Only Joyce is despised as much as this clown.

[degenerated]

they could have Livingston mp Graeme Morrice as deputy.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/27/db3617e42b87db47b0b9cd93b8085485.jpg

Loving the handshake :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

they could have Livingston mp Graeme Morrice as deputy.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/27/db3617e42b87db47b0b9cd93b8085485.jpg

Loving the handshake :greengrin

:top marks

[steakbake]

they could have Livingston mp Graeme Morrice as deputy.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/27/db3617e42b87db47b0b9cd93b8085485.jpg

Loving the handshake :greengrin

Two dinosaurs.

Murphy would be a bad choice. Don't think many are that deceived by the calmly spoken veneer anymore. An expenses thief, warmonger and blairite.

I don't know who else they'd go for. Douglas Alexander is impossibly smug and think he gives a lot of people the creeps.

Pretty sure the Westminster HQ won't allow someone who'll stray too far from the leash. That wouldn't be the wishes of the politburo, despite what party members might want.

[Beefster]

Murphy would appeal to a lot of voters, whether some like to admit it or not. I suspect that the venom directed at him by SNP/independence supporters is because he's a fairly good politician who comes across well (and I say that as someone who has never voted Labour).

[marinello59]

Murphy would appeal to a lot of voters, whether some like to admit it or not. I suspect that the venom directed at him by SNP/independence supporters is because he's a fairly good politician who comes across well (and I say that as someone who has never voted Labour).

Labour should really worry about any candidate that the other tribe starts praising.:greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

You really couldn't make it up! Scottish Labour share their offices with some interesting company :greengrin

13721

[ronaldo7]

I really wish the Scottish Branch of London Labour would stop pretending they have authority to deviate from the London plan. The Leader of Labour is Ed Miliband and the branch office do what they're told.

I see Jenny Marra, Kezia Dugdale, and Jabba Baillie have said they'll not stand.

Bring on Murphy.

http://www.arcofprosperity.org/the-better-together-party/

[degenerated]

Murphy would appeal to a lot of voters, whether some like to admit it or not. I suspect that the venom directed at him by SNP/independence supporters is because he's a fairly good politician who comes across well (and I say that as someone who has never voted Labour).
Having a WM mp as Scottish leader would just accentuate the problems that Labour are having about lack of autonomy from London.

Murphy, as a blairite (and tainted by Iraq, expenses, welfare cap and bedroom tax), might appeal to the staunch labourites however people are turning away from this version of Labour in droves.

He also couldn't be bothered to turn up for recent debates about Scotland and more powers.

[Beefster]

Murphy, as a blairite (and tainted by Iraq, expenses, welfare cap and bedroom tax)

I'm not sure about all of them but the vast majority of the expense smears that I read about Murphy post-'egggate' were horse****.

As I said, hardcore SNP/independence supporters don't like him. That's not who the next Scottish Labour leader will be trying to reach any more than Colin Fox will be trying to reach me. The write-off of Labour in Scotland has a "80% of the folk on the street are going to vote yes" feel to it IMHO.

[marinello59]

I'm not sure about all of them but the vast majority of the expense smears that I read about Murphy post-'egggate' were horse****.

As I said, hardcore SNP/independence supporters don't like him. That's not who the next Scottish Labour leader will be trying to reach any more than Colin Fox will be trying to reach me. The write-off of Labour in Scotland has a "80% of the folk on the street are going to vote yes" feel to it IMHO.

That's tribal politics in action. Surely when it comes to expenses not one party can claim any sort of high ground? Murphy is apparently an expenses thief whilst Salmond was a victim of the system that allowed him to claim all that food money and a Westminster 'redundancy' payment. Which of course he will pay back when he goes back down there.
Labour are in disarray just now but hopefully they do get their act together to provide some sort of opposition to the party in power at Holyrood or we are all losers.

[degenerated]

That's tribal politics in action. Surely when it comes to expenses not one party can claim any sort of high ground? Murphy is apparently an expenses thief whilst Salmond was a victim of the system that allowed him to claim all that food money and a Westminster 'redundancy' payment. Which of course he will pay back when he goes back down there.
Labour are in disarray just now but hopefully they do get their act together to provide some sort of opposition to the party in power at Holyrood or we are all losers.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/home-news/jim-murphy-named-among-27-mps-in-new-expenses-row.1350640850

[marinello59]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/home-news/jim-murphy-named-among-27-mps-in-new-expenses-row.1350640850

You seem to be missing my point.
I am not defending Murphy although I believe he was found not to have broken any rules. Neither party can claim the moral high ground on this one, both parties are full of politicians who behave in a questionable manner. I hold both the SNP and labour in equal contempt. The attempts by SNP supporters to score points on this is as hypocritical as it would be the situation was reversed.

[GlesgaeHibby]

That's tribal politics in action. Surely when it comes to expenses not one party can claim any sort of high ground? Murphy is apparently an expenses thief whilst Salmond was a victim of the system that allowed him to claim all that food money and a Westminster 'redundancy' payment. Which of course he will pay back when he goes back down there.
Labour are in disarray just now but hopefully they do get their act together to provide some sort of opposition to the party in power at Holyrood or we are all losers.

As an SNP member, I totally agree. It is in all our interests to have a strong opposition party, because labour have not been strong opposition to the SNP government. They need to totally re-examine what they stand for. Under Lamont, all they have stood for is total hatred of the SNP.

Minimum pricing is a perfect example. We all know that Scotland has problems with alcohol and it needs to be tackled. All they've done is tell us that minimum pricing is rubbish. Why not focus on putting forward credible alternatives? That's what we need a strong opposition party to do.

Your idea is rubbish --> here is what we would do and why it is better.

At the minute it is just

Your idea/policy is rubbish --> your idea is rubbish (repeatedly!!).

[Moulin Yarns]

The first head is appearing above the parapet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29802723

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29802723)Protege of Margaret Curran, and friend of Jim Murphy.

[GlesgaeHibby]

The first head is appearing above the parapet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29802723

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29802723)Protege of Margaret Curran, and friend of Jim Murphy.

Who?

[lucky]

What has Labour done in the past 30 years to convince you they are the party of the left? The SNP are the best of the bunch IMO. That is to say, I'd much prefer the SSP but they shot themselves in the foot.

Your party is on the right and your preferred candidate has ruled herself out so forgive me if I don't believe a word that comes from the Labour party or it's buddies.

He has not ruled himself out of running. I should know I spoke to him yesterday. He has publicly stated that Gordon Brown would be than to unify the party and take the fight to the separatists

[lucky]

The first head is appearing above the parapet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29802723

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29802723)Protege of Margaret Curran, and friend of Jim Murphy.

Her and Murphy are not buddies. Sarah was elected to the Scots parliament the same time as Curren and served as a minister so hardly a prodigy

[Moulin Yarns]

Who?


ALmost my reaction, but i do remember the name. :greengrin

Sarah Boyack a list MSP for Lothians.

[Moulin Yarns]

Her and Murphy are not buddies. Sarah was elected to the Scots parliament the same time as Curren and served as a minister so hardly a prodigy

Aye, well maybe she should update the page about her on Wikipedia then.

She at least has some things that I agree with, having been an Environmental minister in the Scottish Parlaiment.

[Mibbes Aye]

http://wingsoverscotland.com/kezia-dugdale-is-a-liar/

Kezia would be an excellent choice to continue the downward spiral the Liebour party.

I'm not Lord of the Internet (sadly :greengrin)

But if you are a Nat or a Yes voter, why do you keep posting links to this guy and his blog?

He wrote lengthily, blaming Liverpool fans for Hillsborough, He had an online fight with the sister of one of the 96 and called the Liverpool fans c***ts.

We're Hibs fans. We're football fans. We know what it's like to go to games and I don't think any of us agree with his views on Hillsborough.

If you're a Nat or a Yes you've got plenty arguments that don't rely on this bam.

Why not stop quoting him? He's toxic.

[Mibbes Aye]

To pick up where this came from earlier in the thread. Lamont was being criticised for her attempts to 'message' female voters and it was suggested that Brown would perhaps need to learn to speak differently.

Either Salmond doing this is acceptable or it is two faced. If it is acceptable then so is what JL was alleged to have been trying to do to win over the female vote - ie speaking to people in a manner they will understand best. Regardless of whether she did it well or badly.

Your point on place of power and resignation is an interesting one because there is another parallel here. Asking people from your position of power to vote for independence and a sovereign Scottish Parllament, then resigning - apparently for to go and work in London in a way that contradicts that vote.

To explore her comments more deeply this is not so much about the relationship between the Scottish Labour Party and the rest of the party. I think her comments are probably directed at certain specific backbench Scottish Labour MPs, her potential replacement and then the group around the current leader. It is interesting that McConnell was quick today to criticise those close to Miliband for their mistakes - that's code for 'none of this is Jim Murphy's fault'. Miliband does not like Murphy and McConnell is Murphy's close chum. So this stuff is less about what Yessers would like it to be about (UK/Scotland structural differences and divisions) and more about personal positioning for the next leader and the angst of JL in effectively being forced out.

:agree: Honest post

[allmodcons]

I'm not Lord of the Internet (sadly :greengrin)

But if you are a Nat or a Yes voter, why do you keep posting links to this guy and his blog?

He wrote lengthily, blaming Liverpool fans for Hillsborough, He had an online fight with the sister of one of the 96 and called the Liverpool fans c***ts.

We're Hibs fans. We're football fans. We know what it's like to go to games and I don't think any of us agree with his views on Hillsborough.

If you're a Nat or a Yes you've got plenty arguments that don't rely on this bam.

Why not stop quoting him? He's toxic.


"When you wake up to the fact that your paper is Tory, just remember there are two sides to every story".

http://wingsoverscotland.com/hello-daily-mail-readers/#more-57256

[Mibbes Aye]

"When you wake up to the fact that your paper is Tory, just remember there are two sides to every story".

http://wingsoverscotland.com/hello-daily-mail-readers/#more-57256

What a load of self-referential nonsense.

I respect you as a poster and respect your posts.

I won't tar you with his views unless you choose such.

Do you agree with him that Liverpool fans were to blame for Hillsborough?

If you don't then why quote him? It undermines your arguments.

[allmodcons]

What a load of self-referential nonsense.

I respect you as a poster and respect your posts.

I won't tar you with his views unless you choose such.

Do you agree with him that Liverpool fans were to blame for Hillsborough?

If you don't then why quote him? It undermines your arguments.

Lighten up MA!
Just providing you with 'his' side of the story.
Not looking to get involved in a Hillsborough debate to be honest.
Was actually more interested in quoting Billy Bragg :0)

[Hibrandenburg]

What a load of self-referential nonsense.

I respect you as a poster and respect your posts.

I won't tar you with his views unless you choose such.

Do you agree with him that Liverpool fans were to blame for Hillsborough?

If you don't then why quote him? It undermines your arguments.

Just because you quote someone doesn't mean you agree with everything they've ever done. There's some cracking and accurate quotes out there made by dubious people, are we not allowed to use them either?

[degenerated]

Just because you quote someone doesn't mean you agree with everything they've ever done. There's some cracking and accurate quotes out there made by dubious people, are we not allowed to use them either?
:agree:

I bet even Jim Murphy has said something mildly interesting, on the odd occasion, which could be worthy of quoting. and he's a complete and utter roaster :greengrin

[Stranraer]

Just because you quote someone doesn't mean you agree with everything they've ever done. There's some cracking and accurate quotes out there made by dubious people, are we not allowed to use them either?

:agree: I quoted Darling during the campaign on Scotland's ability to keep the pound, don't agree with the guy on much though!

[Mibbes Aye]

Lighten up MA!
Just providing you with 'his' side of the story.
Not looking to get involved in a Hillsborough debate to be honest.
Was actually more interested in quoting Billy Bragg :0)

You know what would be really good?

You would re-post the link and say you want nothing more to do with it, because you find it distasteful or repugnant or whatever.

Your call.

[Hibrandenburg]

You know what would be really good?

You would re-post the link and say you want nothing more to do with it, because you find it distasteful or repugnant or whatever.

Your call.

I can't speak for him but I think that request is not only ridiculous but juvenile.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm not Lord of the Internet (sadly :greengrin)

But if you are a Nat or a Yes voter, why do you keep posting links to this guy and his blog?

He wrote lengthily, blaming Liverpool fans for Hillsborough, He had an online fight with the sister of one of the 96 and called the Liverpool fans c***ts.

We're Hibs fans. We're football fans. We know what it's like to go to games and I don't think any of us agree with his views on Hillsborough.

If you're a Nat or a Yes you've got plenty arguments that don't rely on this bam.

Why not stop quoting him? He's toxic.


But you are coming across as if you want to be. :rolleyes:




What a load of self-referential nonsense.

I respect you as a poster and respect your posts.

I won't tar you with his views unless you choose such.

Do you agree with him that Liverpool fans were to blame for Hillsborough?

If you don't then why quote him? It undermines your arguments.


You know what would be really good?

You would re-post the link and say you want nothing more to do with it, because you find it distasteful or repugnant or whatever.

Your call.

[steakbake]

Murphy staged a coup to take control of the Scottish party, according to one Labour MP.

It's a word that I've used before but it's like watching the sinister machinations of a soviet politburo.

[ronaldo7]

Her and Murphy are not buddies. Sarah was elected to the Scots parliament the same time as Curren and served as a minister so hardly a prodigy

All I've heard in the last few days is how Labour is a "Family", and they are all working together. :rolleyes:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/lamont-was-the-victim-of-a-murphy-coup-claims-labour-mp.25722918

[allmodcons]

To pick up where this came from earlier in the thread. Lamont was being criticised for her attempts to 'message' female voters and it was suggested that Brown would perhaps need to learn to speak differently.

Either Salmond doing this is acceptable or it is two faced. If it is acceptable then so is what JL was alleged to have been trying to do to win over the female vote - ie speaking to people in a manner they will understand best. Regardless of whether she did it well or badly.

Your point on place of power and resignation is an interesting one because there is another parallel here. Asking people from your position of power to vote for independence and a sovereign Scottish Parllament, then resigning - apparently for to go and work in London in a way that contradicts that vote.

To explore her comments more deeply this is not so much about the relationship between the Scottish Labour Party and the rest of the party. I think her comments are probably directed at certain specific backbench Scottish Labour MPs, her potential replacement and then the group around the current leader. It is interesting that McConnell was quick today to criticise those close to Miliband for their mistakes - that's code for 'none of this is Jim Murphy's fault'. Miliband does not like Murphy and McConnell is Murphy's close chum. So this stuff is less about what Yessers would like it to be about (UK/Scotland structural differences and divisions) and more about personal positioning for the next leader and the angst of JL in effectively being forced out.

If this is correct ODS surely that does not bode well for future relations? If Miliband does not like Murphy and Murphy takes charge in Scotland then, ultimately, the structural differences and divisions between UK/Scotland are going to be seriously tested in the run up to the next big electoral tests in 2015 and 2016?



You know what would be really good?

You would re-post the link and say you want nothing more to do with it, because you find it distasteful or repugnant or whatever.

Your call.

Not one of your better moments IMO!

I have already said I don't want to get embroiled in a Hillsborough debate and thought, in view of my lighthearted comments, that you might have respected my stance.

Stuart Campbell was seriously scrutinised by the right wing press in the run up to the referendum. Why? Because his site was a big success and, indeed, very good at tearing apart the lies emanating from rags like the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Telegraph, etc, etc.

I do not have an opinion on his view of the Hillsborough tragedy, simply because I've not seen any evidence to support the comments attributed to him by said members of the right wing press. If you can provide some solid evidence to back up your comments, then I might take a different view?

It's obvious why you don't like the guy. He's a prominent Nationalist. His views on Hillsborough (whatever the truth) are only part of the reason why you don't like seeing links posted to his site.

[Beefster]

Stuart Campbell was seriously scrutinised by the right wing press in the run up to the referendum. Why? Because his site was a big success and, indeed, very good at tearing apart the lies emanating from rags like the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Telegraph, etc, etc.

I do not have an opinion on his view of the Hillsborough tragedy, simply because I've not seen any evidence to support the comments attributed to him by said members of the right wing press. If you can provide some solid evidence to back up your comments, then I might take a different view?


Some people don't like "Rev" Stuart Campbell because he's been a twat since his 'Amiga Power'/'Sensible Software' days more than 20 years ago (there were probably more of us subjected to his musings in those days). Whether he genuinely believes half of the loathsome **** he comes out with or is just a natural troll, I don't know.

IIRC, in the past, Campbell has criticised Bill Walker's partner (one of the one's he was convicted of domestic abuse against) and made the pretty offensive statements about Liverpool fans/Hillsborough.

Incidentally, if you want to read his Hillsborough post...

http://wosland.podgamer.com/no-justice-for-the-96/

[hibsbollah]

Some people don't like "Rev" Stuart Campbell because he's been a twat since his 'Amiga Power'/'Sensible Software' days more than 20 years ago (there were probably more of us subjected to his musings in those days). Whether he genuinely believes half of the loathsome **** he comes out with or is just a natural troll, I don't know.

IIRC, in the past, Campbell has criticised Bill Walker's partner (one of the one's he was convicted of domestic abuse against) and made the pretty offensive statements about Liverpool fans/Hillsborough.

Incidentally, if you want to read his Hillsborough post...

http://wosland.podgamer.com/no-justice-for-the-96/

Thats an outrageous twisting of the facts re Hillsborough. The only good thing about it is that its so blatanty stupid and devoid of logic that its easy to demolish. What a complete and total bellend.

[allmodcons]

Some people don't like "Rev" Stuart Campbell because he's been a twat since his 'Amiga Power'/'Sensible Software' days more than 20 years ago (there were probably more of us subjected to his musings in those days). Whether he genuinely believes half of the loathsome **** he comes out with or is just a natural troll, I don't know.

IIRC, in the past, Campbell has criticised Bill Walker's partner (one of the one's he was convicted of domestic abuse against) and made the pretty offensive statements about Liverpool fans/Hillsborough.

Incidentally, if you want to read his Hillsborough post...

http://wosland.podgamer.com/no-justice-for-the-96/

Thanks for link. I will read it later and might even post response:0)

[allmodcons]

Some people don't like "Rev" Stuart Campbell because he's been a twat since his 'Amiga Power'/'Sensible Software' days more than 20 years ago (there were probably more of us subjected to his musings in those days). Whether he genuinely believes half of the loathsome **** he comes out with or is just a natural troll, I don't know.

IIRC, in the past, Campbell has criticised Bill Walker's partner (one of the one's he was convicted of domestic abuse against) and made the pretty offensive statements about Liverpool fans/Hillsborough.

Incidentally, if you want to read his Hillsborough post...

http://wosland.podgamer.com/no-justice-for-the-96/


Thanks for link. I will read it later and might even post response:0)


I have read it now and have to agree it wasn't his finest moment.:blushie:
As I've already said I, personally, really don't know enough about the whole Hillsborough thing to pass serious comment.
IMO he should have taken a leaf out of my book and taken the view that sometimes it's better to say nothing than anything at all.
Not very wise to write such a provocative piece about, what is, an extremely emotive issue.

[ronaldo7]

They don't, otherwise they wouldn't be in a Labour/SNP coalition jointly running the capital city of Scotland. Makes a nice conspiracy theory though.

:aok: Makes the goings on in East Lothian all the more weird. Open door to govern, but they invite the Tories into power.

[lucky]

Delighted that Neil Findlay MSP has declared his intention to stand for the leadership.

[ronaldo7]

We have a contest then. Neil Findlay has decided to stand for the leadership of the Branch office.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29816347#?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

[One Day Soon]

:aok: Makes the goings on in East Lothian all the more weird. Open door to govern, but they invite the Tories into power.

TBF East Lothian Council politics have always been weird under every party......

[One Day Soon]

Murphy staged a coup to take control of the Scottish party, according to one Labour MP.

Well I suppose if one is prepared to believe that part of that coup plot involved the party leader - with whom there is little affinity - going out of his way to stage a total cock up as regards 'changing' party employees in Scotland then that may be believable. On the other hand I think said Labour MP is just talking 5hite.

It's a word that I've used before but it's like watching the sinister machinations of a soviet politburo.


Seriously? The Politburo was a well run, ruthless and politically focused machine. I'm really struggling to see a meaningful parallel here.

[One Day Soon]

Delighted that Neil Findlay MSP has declared his intention to stand for the leadership.


I'm not.

What's he ever run, won or done to suggest he has a clue how to revive the Labour Party, create a coalition of interest across the electorate and articulate a message about what the modern Labour Party should stand for that is radical, challenging and different from the SNP's brand of 'I speak your interest group pi5h' politics? (with apologies to our nat and Nat friends looking in)

[steakbake]

Seriously? The Politburo was a well run, ruthless and politically focused machine. I'm really struggling to see a meaningful parallel here.

I take your point! Maybe I'm crediting them with too much?

It's a shambles altogether. It's not a surprise that I'm hardly pro-Labour (though once was an active party member), but democracy demands a decent opposition. With this bunch, it's either stitch up after stitch up or shambles after shambles, either way.

[lucky]

I'm not.

What's he ever run, won or done to suggest he has a clue how to revive the Labour Party, create a coalition of interest across the electorate and articulate a message about what the modern Labour Party should stand for that is radical, challenging and different from the SNP's brand of 'I speak your interest group pi5h' politics? (with apologies to our nat and Nat friends looking in)

He's not a career politician for a start. Brickie to trade then went to college and Uni to become a teacher. He served as a local councillor in Fauldhouse. He's one of the few politicians who is more interested in others rather than his career. His politics and vision for Scotland are an attractive mix which I'm sure the party and the wider audience will take to. Whilst Murphy was doing his tour in the streets Neil spoke at more debates and CLPs than virtually any other Labour politician during the referendum. What he is not is a media savy operator. He is very much at home taking to ordinary people rather than having a sharp suit and full of sound bites. With Neil, what you see and here is what you get.
I'm delighted he's running and I will voting and campaigning for him

[Phil D. Rolls]

He's not a career politician for a start. Brickie to trade then went to college and Uni to become a teacher. He served as a local councillor in Fauldhouse. He's one of the few politicians who is more interested in others rather than his career. His politics and vision for Scotland are an attractive mix which I'm sure the party and the wider audience will take to. Whilst Murphy was doing his tour in the streets Neil spoke at more debates and CLPs than virtually any other Labour politician during the referendum. What he is not is a media savy operator. He is very much at home taking to ordinary people rather than having a sharp suit and full of sound bites. With Neil, what you see and here is what you get.
I'm delighted he's running and I will voting and campaigning for him

Surely an essential requirement for the post?

[degenerated]

He's not a career politician for a start. Brickie to trade then went to college and Uni to become a teacher. He served as a local councillor in Fauldhouse. He's one of the few politicians who is more interested in others rather than his career. His politics and vision for Scotland are an attractive mix which I'm sure the party and the wider audience will take to. Whilst Murphy was doing his tour in the streets Neil spoke at more debates and CLPs than virtually any other Labour politician during the referendum. What he is not is a media savy operator. He is very much at home taking to ordinary people rather than having a sharp suit and full of sound bites. With Neil, what you see and here is what you get.
I'm delighted he's running and I will voting and campaigning for him
I'm not overly familiar with Neil Findlay however if I was looking for a politician to pin the careerist label on then Jim Murphy would be pretty much at the front of the queue.

Jim's not been slow off the mark in setting up his campaign office for his push to get the gig as regional branch convener of the London Labour party.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/30/6c8ca4c9dbfa51891d1b7ef258e1ea8b.jpg

[Hibrandenburg]

Surely an essential requirement for the post?

What about this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xd_zkMEgkI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Phil D. Rolls]

What about this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xd_zkMEgkI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Yes, he'd certainly fit the bill.

[hibsbollah]

He's not a career politician for a start. Brickie to trade then went to college and Uni to become a teacher. He served as a local councillor in Fauldhouse. He's one of the few politicians who is more interested in others rather than his career. His politics and vision for Scotland are an attractive mix which I'm sure the party and the wider audience will take to. Whilst Murphy was doing his tour in the streets Neil spoke at more debates and CLPs than virtually any other Labour politician during the referendum. What he is not is a media savy operator. He is very much at home taking to ordinary people rather than having a sharp suit and full of sound bites. With Neil, what you see and here is what you get.
I'm delighted he's running and I will voting and campaigning for him
It sounds like the party has a genuine choice in front of them. Good for politics in general. I know who I hope wins and its not Jim Murphy.

[allmodcons]

It sounds like the party has a genuine choice in front of them. Good for politics in general. I know who I hope wins and its not Jim Murphy.

Blairite to his core, committed supporter of illegal war in Iraq, pro Trident, Friend of Israel with connections to neo-con think tanks like the Henry Jackson Society.

I'm advised he's a divisive character by nature?

Are any of our Labour friends on these boards supporting his bid for leader?

Is Scottish Labour seriously looking to a Blairite to improve their electoral fortunes North of the Border?

Lucky has shown his hand. ODS, Mibbes Aye, what's your opinion on Mr Murphy?

[CropleyWasGod]

Somebody take me through the mechanics here.

Murphy needs to get a seat in Holyrood. Or does he? Could he be the SL leader as an MP?

Assuming that he goes the MSP route, he has a few choices as I see it:-

1. somebody retires from an MSP seat soonish. That means that he would have to be selected by the local branch... is that right? And then elected in a by-election. Not cut and dried.

2. he waits until the 2016 election, and finds a safe MSP seat. That would mean giving up his MP seat, and effectively being without a seat for a year. Even then, he would still have to be selected and elected, as above.

3. he stands as a list MSP in 2016. See above.

It doesn't look like a very easy run... especially as he seems to be a divisive character.

[Moulin Yarns]

I can't believe my ears, Jim Murphy says on Daily Politics today that Westminster will always be important to Scotland.

So why is he wanting to give it all up and live permanently in the backwater of Scottish Politics?

On TV the zip on the back of his head opened and the pea that is is brain rolled onto the floor and was quickly gobbled up by an austerity mouse.

What planet was he expelled from?

Maybe he realises that he might not keep his seat next May, and wants to, hopefully keep his options open, by getting in through the PR system as a list MSP.

That would mean the 3 Scottish Opposition leaders were all List MSPs, now wouldn't that be funny, not even first choice.

[Beefster]

Maybe he realises that he might not keep his seat next May, and wants to, hopefully keep his options open, by getting in through the PR system as a list MSP.

There is heehaw chance of Murphy losing East Renfrewshire next May if he contests it.

[hibsbollah]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/05/jim-murphy-middle-class-mobility
Blairite to his core, committed supporter of illegal war in Iraq, pro Trident, Friend of Israel with connections to neo-con think tanks like the Henry Jackson Society.

I'm advised he's a divisive character by nature?

Are any of our Labour friends on these boards supporting his bid for leader?

Is Scottish Labour seriously looking to a Blairite to improve their electoral fortunes North of the Border?

Lucky has shown his hand. ODS, Mibbes Aye, what's your opinion on Mr Murphy?

You know what you're getting with Murphy. Dropped the NUS opposition to scrapping student grants in the 90s. Cheerleader for the Iraq War. Blairite to the core. And an interesting line on social mobility, what should be the Labour movement's most important aim.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/05/jim-murphy-middle-class-mobility

[hibsbollah]

There is heehaw chance of Murphy losing East Renfrewshire next May if he contests it.

Safest seat in Scotland outside Glasgow I think?

[allmodcons]

Somebody take me through the mechanics here.

Murphy needs to get a seat in Holyrood. Or does he? Could he be the SL leader as an MP?

Assuming that he goes the MSP route, he has a few choices as I see it:-

1. somebody retires from an MSP seat soonish. That means that he would have to be selected by the local branch... is that right? And then elected in a by-election. Not cut and dried.

2. he waits until the 2016 election, and finds a safe MSP seat. That would mean giving up his MP seat, and effectively being without a seat for a year. Even then, he would still have to be selected and elected, as above.

3. he stands as a list MSP in 2016. See above.

It doesn't look like a very easy run... especially as he seems to be a divisive character.


This is about right, I think :confused:

He could win the contest to become Scottish Leader of what would then become 'Scottish New Labour' or 'Scottish Neo Con Labour'. Take your pick.

You're spot on though, he'll have a number of hurdles to overcome in order to make Holyrood.

[Moulin Yarns]

Here are a couple of interesting blogs.


By brothers on opposite sides of the divide.


http://ianssmart.blogspot.co.uk/


http://www.citizensmart.net/blog/the-case-for-a-yes-alliance

[Moulin Yarns]

There is heehaw chance of Murphy losing East Renfrewshire next May if he contests it.

One of the safest seats, but can he be an MP and stand for Holyrood a year later?

[Beefster]

One of the safest seats, but can he be an MP and stand for Holyrood a year later?

IIRC Salmond combined being an MSP and MP so I presume that there is no barrier to it.

[Moulin Yarns]

IIRC Salmond combined being an MSP and MP so I presume that there is no barrier to it.

Fair enough.

I think it requires a 41% swing for the SNP to unseat him, the same as Charmichael up in the northern Isles.

[allmodcons]

Fair enough.

I think it requires a 41% swing for the SNP to unseat him, the same as Charmichael up in the northern Isles.


From BfS today:-

"A poll released today by Ipsos Mori and STV puts the SNP at 52% of the vote in the 2015 General Election, with Labour and the Liberal Democrats dropping to 23% and 6% respectively. If this was translated into seats, the SNP would have 54, up from 6 just now and Labour would have only 4, down from 40. The Liberal Democrats would be reduced to only one Scottish seat if this poll is accurate.

Other interesting highlights from this poll show that Scottish voters continue to reject the Conservatives (10%) and especially UKIP (2%). Compare this to England, where a Tory / UKIP coalition is a very real prospect in Westminsterin 2015 and the divide between Scottish and English politics is highlighted once again".

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/297729-stv-poll-labour-would-annihilated-if-general-election-held-tomorrow/


This would have me in dreamland but, unfortunately, I doubt it will come to fruition.

[hibsbollah]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/30/scottish-labour-snp-general-election-poll

Ipsos mori say Labour will be left with 4 Westminster MPs after the election.

[Stranraer]

Just the 29 point SNP lead for the new Labour in Scotland leader to deal with. I sincerely hope they elect the war criminal, that should make the next British election fun viewing.

[marinello59]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/30/scottish-labour-snp-general-election-poll

Ipsos mori say Labour will be left with 4 Westminster MPs after the election.

Happy days for the SNP then. Vote No and get a Tory Government has now changed to Vote anybody but Labour and get a Tory Government. :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Anas Sarwar also steps down. Daily Record source.

[GlesgaeHibby]

I'm not Lord of the Internet (sadly :greengrin)

But if you are a Nat or a Yes voter, why do you keep posting links to this guy and his blog?

He wrote lengthily, blaming Liverpool fans for Hillsborough, He had an online fight with the sister of one of the 96 and called the Liverpool fans c***ts.

We're Hibs fans. We're football fans. We know what it's like to go to games and I don't think any of us agree with his views on Hillsborough.

If you're a Nat or a Yes you've got plenty arguments that don't rely on this bam.

Why not stop quoting him? He's toxic.

I don't share his views on Hillsborough at all, and I'm not referencing a link to his opinion on Hillsborough, so why bring it up?

He writes a blog. He's entitled to his opinion, even though on Hillsborough his views are appalling.

I find Wings to be a good website, with a lot of good blog posts (and incidentally, I don't always agree with what he writes on wings).

[Colr]

Interesting reports in most of the papers that Labour could get wiped out by the SNP in Scotland at the next election. I think UKIP will have a really big impact on Labour's vote in England as well.

I think the massive increase in voter registration in Scotland will give the SNP a big boost.

Red Ed is certainly going to be tested in his back to the future, union sponsored socialist appeal. Where will Labour go if this transpires? Back to Blairism? The way of the Liberals? A new redefinition?

If I was Jim Murphy, I would sit this one out. I think many of the brighter prospects in Labour will do the same.

[JimBHibees]

It sounds like the party has a genuine choice in front of them. Good for politics in general. I know who I hope wins and its not Jim Murphy.

Totally agree is there a smarmier operator than Murphy ever. Comes over as one of the most insincere people. It would be good if Labour made some sort of move to its original values, aint going to happen with this guy IMO.

[Beefster]

Funnily enough, I don't mind Murphy. I'll be honest though and admit that it's probably because he's at the more palatable end (IMHO) of the Labour party.

[Moulin Yarns]

Funnily enough, I don't mind Murphy. I'll be honest though and admit that it's probably because he's at the more palatable end (IMHO) of the Labour party.

What are your thoughts on the other two candidates to come forward so far? Findlay and Boyack.

If I had a choice, which I obviously don't :greengrin I would go for Boyack out of the three, that is based on her past political profile.

[hibsbollah]

Funnily enough, I don't mind Murphy. I'll be honest though and admit that it's probably because he's at the more palatable end (IMHO) of the Labour party.

I quite like Ken Clarke for the same reason.

[Beefster]

I quite like Ken Clarke for the same reason.

I like Ken Clarke too!

[DaveF]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/30/scottish-labour-snp-general-election-poll

Ipsos mori say Labour will be left with 4 Westminster MPs after the election.

Nice! Anyone up for a referendum :greengrin

[degenerated]

Bugger that, if that panned out then we could just bypass the whole referendum thing and just unilaterally declare it. :greengrin

[steakbake]

I like Ken Clarke too!

Yes, he's a quality, generally middle of the road politician. Don't agree with him on everything but he's one of the few people who you might think says what he actually believes as opposed to spinning the party line.

[BroxburnHibee]

Safest seat in Scotland outside Glasgow I think?

When he won it in 97 it was the 2nd safest tory seat in Scotland.

The tories were wiped out that night so don't believe that there is a safe seat.

[Moulin Yarns]

When he won it in 97 it was the 2nd safest tory seat in Scotland.

The tories were wiped out that night so don't believe that there is a safe seat.


What might be interesting to note about the Eastwood elections won by the Tories was there were 4 parties standing, then in 1997 there were 7 candidates, not that the others gathered many votes.

[hibsbollah]

I like Ken Clarke too!

I've noticed that we do sometimes agree on things. There was a time in the past when I thought this very unlikely :greengrin

[lucky]

Findlay endorsed by Aslef and Unison. Only two unions to declare so far. The unions got Ed elected and Johann Lamont. If Findlay get a clean sweep of the unions then Murphy could be struggling

[Beefster]

The unions got Ed elected and Johann Lamont.

Which would appear to be half of Labour's problem.

[Stranraer]

Which would appear to be half of Labour's problem.

:agree: they accuse the Tories being out of touch because of their "links to millionaires" but I think Labour are seen as out of touch with a large percentage of the population because of their trade union links.
Watching Ed Miliband doubling back on himself to give that homeless person 2 pence was cringeworthy.

Whoever takes over Scottish Labour has a lot of work to do given that a 2nd poll (YouGov) is showing the SNP will win a majority of seats next year.

[--------]

I'm sorry - I'm too busy to read the whole thread - who on earth is Johann Lamont????

Any relation of Norman's? :confused:

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm sorry - I'm too busy to read the whole thread - who on earth is Johann Lamont????

Any relation of Norman's? :confused:

A character in Still Game, I think she might be ISAs pal.

[lord bunberry]

Which would appear to be half of Labour's problem.

The Labour Party should be representing the people who elect them. We no longer have a left of centre party in the UK. Labour will go the way of the liberals if they don't get back to their roots. Politicians need to start sticking up for what they believe not what'll get them elected.

[ballengeich]

I'm sorry - I'm too busy to read the whole thread - who on earth is Johann Lamont????

Any relation of Norman's? :confused:

No. A Dutch footballer. When BBC London became aware of the name it was pronounced with Johann as in Cruyff and Lamont as in Norman.