#hibileaks/Hands On Hibs/BuyHibs (Merged)

[Sergio sledge]

HoH's latest FB post says, in part:-

We need to see a cultural shift at the club placing supporters, employees and the community back at the centre of everything our club does. Even in these difficult times paying Hibernian staff the Living Wage is an essential part of making that change a reality.

Is there a suggestion that Hibs don't pay the LW?

Probably a response to this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29807293

No idea if Hibs pay the living wage or not.

[CropleyWasGod]

:agree:

It's all very political, but yes going by this article, we don't.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29807293

Okay, cheers.

[FranckSuzy]

What was this? Never heard about that.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?289985-hibileaks-Hands-On-Hibs-(Merged)/page13 Post #389 :aok:

Pics of the children delivering the letters here:

https://www.facebook.com/463793980429256/photos/pcb.479248222217165/479241112217876/?type=1&theater

Hope you have Facebook :greengrin

[Ronniekirk]

Probably a response to this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29807293

No idea if Hibs pay the living wage or not.
Celtic are in a battle just now with small shareholders who are trying to push through that the club adopt the policy of introducing the living wage .The club are resisting this change and fans are signing a petitition and looking to get Publicity to try and bring this change about .
In that piece which was last week ,it said no scottish club currently implement it ,so that will be why Hearts are making such a big deal about having now implemented it .Its all part of thier rebranding and positive P R . It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the Media and whether everyone goes with the positive headline and nobody comments on thier recent financial problems

[grunt]

So, who here wants community ownership then?

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/motherwell/297743-well-societys-plea-to-raise-more-cash-to-keep-motherwell-in-fans-hands/

[whereswallace?]

See this today at Farmers at Blackhall.

[Bishop Hibee]

If it focuses Farmer's mind on what he plans to do with the club then more power to their elbow.

A few decent performances shouldn't let Petrie and Farmer off the hook.

[Leith Green]

If it focuses Farmer's mind on what he plans to do with the club then more power to their elbow.

A few decent performances shouldn't let Petrie and Farmer off the hook.


The way i see it is, at least they are doing something about what has become a shambles of a football club. The vast majority of fans will tell you they have had enough of the way the club has been run, doing something about it however doesnt seem forthcoming from any other group or individuals. Fans groups / focus groups etc over the past few years have achieved next to nothing. Wether you agree with the methods they are using, at least they are trying to do something about the people running our club. Petrie and Farmer answer to no one and it shows

[Golden Bear]

Well the way I see it is that we shouldn't give these guys the oxygen they thrive on. To invade Sir Tom's private and business lives is frankly shameful.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Well the way I see it is that we shouldn't give these guys the oxygen they thrive on. To invade Sir Tom's private and business lives is frankly shameful.

I didn't know that Farmer's Autocare are the CHEAPEST IN THE CITY for tyres, though. That's the real story here.

:greengrin

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Well the way I see it is that we shouldn't give these guys the oxygen they thrive on. To invade Sir Tom's private and business lives is frankly shameful.

Yes, know your place & don't ask questions.:rolleyes:

[Golden Bear]

Yes, know your place & don't ask questions.:rolleyes:

Nope - right now it's a case of looking for a viable and trusting alternative and failing to find one.

[Onceinawhile]

"I'm so angry I made a sign"

[ian cruise]

"I'm so angry I made a sign"
Down with this sort of thing! :wink:

[Golden Bear]

And we all know that Hibs are not honking right now. ( appropriate smiley not available from phone)

[Lee]

Careful now....

[leither17]

Careful now....

?

[Eyrie]

I'm undecided whether the "Hands On Hibs" campaign is a satirical piece of performance art or alternatively a deliberate ploy to undermine the case for positive change.

[EskbankHibby]

So - to be clear - the current custodians of Hibs (Farmer and Petrie) have not only been crap for the team but have in fact been underhand in their financial dealings with the club/business.

OK, I'm in, as soon as I am shown PROOF that these vagabonds have been stealing from our club.

I'm sure proof is out there, I'm ready to mobilise.

[marinello59]

Yes, know your place & don't ask questions.:rolleyes:

You certainly shouldn't ask questions of Hands on Hibs, they don't give answers.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Yes, know your place & don't ask questions.:rolleyes:

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.


Abraham Lincoln




Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin109276.html#EAwbQxVI1PTTrfXk.99

[The Green Goblin]

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.


Abraham Lincoln


If one's words are no better than silence, one should not speak.

David Carradine as Cain in Kung Fu (didn't have to look that one up, it's something that stuck with me from my childhood tv viewing) :greengrin

[Beefster]

Yes, know your place & don't ask questions.:rolleyes:

If they have the evidence that they claim to, they don't need to ask questions. They just need to release their evidence.

[Phil D. Rolls]

See this today at Farmers at Blackhall.

What a bunch of bozos - I wonder if they had a complimentary cappuccino whilst waiting to be ignored.

[The Falcon]

If it focuses Farmer's mind on what he plans to do with the club then more power to their elbow.

A few decent performances shouldn't let Petrie and Farmer off the hook.

And should any new prospective owner looking in expect the same if things don't go the way these folk want?

Seems to me he has refused to hand over the club for hee haw as they dont have a pot to p in, and they're no happy.

[The Falcon]

If they have the evidence that they claim to, they don't need to ask questions. They just need to release their evidence.

In a nutshell. :agree:

[Scouse Hibee]

You certainly shouldn't ask questions of Hands on Hibs, they don't give answers.


:agree: anyone that answers a question with a question hasn't a clue.

[Lucius Apuleius]

:agree: anyone that answers a question with a question hasn't a clue.

Disagree Scouse. Best answer to most questions is "WTF does it have to do with you?"

In line with earlier comments , a couple of lines from one of my favourite poems, To a Skeleton.

within this hollow cavern hung a ready swift and tuneful tongue,
If falsehoods honey it disdained, and when it could not praise was chained,
If bold in virtues cause it spoke and pleasant concorde never broke,
That silent tongue will plead for thee when time unveils eternity.

[greenginger]

You certainly shouldn't ask questions of Hands on Hibs, they don't give answers.


I had a bit of a ding-dong with a HoH guy on Wednesday night before the game, went something like this.

HoH...... Where's all our money gone ? why don't Hibs own East Mains ? Why do Hibs pay Farmer to rent East Mains when we paid for it.

Me ...... There is nothing in the accounts to show Hibs pay rent for East Mains and if you get a copy of the land title certificate it has the name of the owner as Hibernian F C.

HoH ..... These things dinnae mean anything. You can put anything down on paper . Hibs dinnae own East Mains !

and so it went on :confused: Scary thing was he was backed up by a well known ex-player who insisted Farmer had taken Millions out of Hibs :confused: It was like trying to reason with ISIS. :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

I had a bit of a ding-dong with a HoH guy on Wednesday night before the game, went something like this.

HoH...... Where's all our money gone ? why don't Hibs own East Mains ? Why do Hibs pay Farmer to rent East Mains when we paid for it.

Me ...... There is nothing in the accounts to show Hibs pay rent for East Mains and if you get a copy of the land title certificate it has the name of the owner as Hibernian F C.

HoH ..... These things dinnae mean anything. You can put anything down on paper . Hibs dinnae own East Mains !

and so it went on :confused: Scary thing was he was backed up by a well known ex-player who insisted Farmer had taken Millions out of Hibs :confused: It was like trying to reason with ISIS. :greengrin

When it gets to that stage it is scary.

[blackpoolhibs]

I had a bit of a ding-dong with a HoH guy on Wednesday night before the game, went something like this.

HoH...... Where's all our money gone ? why don't Hibs own East Mains ? Why do Hibs pay Farmer to rent East Mains when we paid for it.

Me ...... There is nothing in the accounts to show Hibs pay rent for East Mains and if you get a copy of the land title certificate it has the name of the owner as Hibernian F C.

HoH ..... These things dinnae mean anything. You can put anything down on paper . Hibs dinnae own East Mains !

and so it went on :confused: Scary thing was he was backed up by a well known ex-player who insisted Farmer had taken Millions out of Hibs :confused: It was like trying to reason with ISIS. :greengrin

Who was the player?

[greenginger]

Who was the player?


I don't like to name names on Hibs.net, but .......


It was the same as the opposition manager ! :wink:

[Bleeds green]

Hands on hibs are a joke I've spoke to hundreds of hibs fans who think they are a bunch of fantasists, liars and some wannabe casuals id be embarrassed to associate with them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't like to name names on Hibs.net, but .......


It was the same as the opposition manager ! :wink:

I was out last night, and have a banging headache. I also have no idea who you mean, but if he was happy to be seen out in public with them, then he cant expect to remain anonymous for long?

[Nando™]

I would imagine it to be Jackie McNamara.

[blackpoolhibs]

I would imagine it to be Jackie McNamara.

:crazy:

[Phil D. Rolls]

:crazy:

Educate me, it seems sane conclusion from all the facts given, to me.

[Nando™]

:crazy:

:Ummm:

[blackpoolhibs]

Educate me, it seems sane conclusion from all the facts given, to me.

:greengrin Even one piece of something would be nice just so we could tear it apart. I want Farmer and Petrie out, but making things up is just daft. I mean as if the current plight we are in is not enough?

And Just what is McNamara is thinking here? :dunno:

[greenginger]

Educate me, it seems sane conclusion from all the facts given, to me.


I think BH was on some serious falling-down juice last night. :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

:greengrin Even one piece of something would be nice just so we could tear it apart. I want Farmer and Petrie out, but making things up is just daft. I mean as if the current plight we are in is not enough?

And Just what is McNamara is thinking here? :dunno:

Got you, tbh Jackie has never struck me as much of a thinker.

[southsider]

Got you, tbh Jackie has never struck me as much of a thinker.
How can you say that ? Do you know him ? I do and he can debate on ANYTHING. Clever guy and proud he is my friend.

[Peevemor]

Got you, tbh Jackie has never struck me as much of a thinker.


How can you say that ? Do you know him ? I do and he can debate on ANYTHING. Clever guy and proud he is my friend.

I was going to say the same thing. I don't know him personally but he's always struck me as a bright guy, even though I disagree with some of the pot shots he's had at Hibs in recent years.

[Phil D. Rolls]

How can you say that ? Do you know him ? I do and he can debate on ANYTHING. Clever guy and proud he is my friend.

Good for you. :aok:

[Phil D. Rolls]

I was going to say the same thing. I don't know him personally but he's always struck me as a bright guy, even though I disagree with some of the pot shots he's had at Hibs in recent years.

Ok, how bright has he come across in this latest skirmish?

[Peevemor]

Ok, how bright has he come across in this latest skirmish?

I'm sure I'm not the only one to be a bit surprised. In saying that, ever since he was emptied along with Duff Jimmy he hasn't been slow to have a snipe at those running the club whenever the opportunity arises.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm sure I'm not the only one to be a bit surprised. In saying that, ever since he was emptied along with Duff Jimmy he hasn't been slow to have a snipe at those running the club whenever the opportunity arises.

Tbh it's this stuff about millions getting siphoned out of the club, without an iota of evidence, that's done it for me. Either, he's very clever playing a game that no one can see through, or he's a patsy being used because some people won't question him.

[jdships]

Tbh it's this stuff about millions getting siphoned out of the club, without an iota of evidence, that's done it for me. Either, he's very clever playing a game that no one can see through, or he's a patsy being used because some people won't question him.

:thumbsup::agree:
Have stayed out of the " debate" given we have yet to be given "real facts" - up to now it has been " spin,spin,spin"
However picking up on your point with which I totally agree where exactly are these people going /what exactly do they have to offer that is any way sustainable ?

" Answers on a postcard to..... " :greengrin

[Bishop Hibee]

And should any new prospective owner looking in expect the same if things don't go the way these folk want?

Seems to me he has refused to hand over the club for hee haw as they dont have a pot to p in, and they're no happy.

If any prospective owner thinks they can run Hibs without scrutiny and cause Hibs harm then yes.

I don't agree with the unsubstantiated allegatiions that Hands on Hibs are making but they have a right to protest. The way Hibs have been run is a disgrace and the absentee owner should tell the fans his long term plans for Hibs if a buyer isn't found that fits his criteria.

[The Falcon]

If any prospective owner thinks they can run Hibs without scrutiny and cause Hibs harm then yes.

I don't agree with the unsubstantiated allegatiions that Hands on Hibs are making but they have a right to protest. The way Hibs have been run is a disgrace and the absentee owner should tell the fans his long term plans for Hibs if a buyer isn't found that fits his criteria.

The absentee owner has now owned Hibs longer than anyone since Harry Swan sold Hibs to William Harrower over half a century ago and his association with Hibs, after scrutiny by some of the accountants on this board, has cost him (well?) over £8m. He will leave us in better condition than he found us.

The reason Hibs have an AGM is to allow such scrutiny to take place and if there is evidence the allegations that have been made are accurate then let's see it. I could be wrong but given the overwhelming majority of the owners shareholding I would guess he could avoid it without too much difficulty if he had anything to hide.

[greenginger]

Got you, tbh Jackie has never struck me as much of a thinker.


I've known Jackie since his playing days at Easter Road and he is a good guy and definitely not stupid.

I think he lets his personal politics dictate the way he sees things. IIRC his dad was in the communist party hierarchy back in the 60's and I think some of it rubbed off.

Result - Capitalist STF must be stealing from the proletariat

[blackpoolhibs]

The absentee owner has now owned Hibs longer than anyone since Harry Swan sold Hibs to William Harrower over half a century ago and his association with Hibs, after scrutiny by some of the accountants on this board, has cost him (well?) over £8m. He will leave us in better condition than he found us.

The reason Hibs have an AGM is to allow such scrutiny to take place and if there is evidence the allegations that have been made are accurate then let's see it. I could be wrong but given the overwhelming majority of the owners shareholding I would guess he could avoid it without too much difficulty if he had anything to hide.

Hardly a difficult task from a man of his wealth. Yes we have a new ground and a new training centre, but it really all boils down to what the product on the park produces.

If anyone thinks winning a few games in the championship makes up for what's been on the park for the last 6-7 seasons, then the clubs spin really has worked?

I have seen Hibs win 3 league cups, 2 Drybourgh cups and regularly beat both halves of the old firm and own that crowd over the other side of the city. Not once did i worry about where we trained or what i was standing in to watch that.

Yes its nice we have these new facilities and football has moved on, but most clubs have done similar over the years too. If we had a team worthy of these facilities we'd all be a lot happier, but the main reason we go along to Easter Road every other week is to watch the team, and thats been way down in the list of priorities of the club in my opinion.

I never expect to see Hibs play in the Championship, under any owner.

[Vini1875]

Hardly a difficult task from a man of his wealth. Yes we have a new ground and a new training centre, but it really all boils down to what the product on the park produces.

If anyone thinks winning a few games in the championship makes up for what's been on the park for the last 6-7 seasons, then the clubs spin really has worked?

I have seen Hibs win 3 league cups, 2 Drybourgh cups and regularly beat both halves of the old firm and own that crowd over the other side of the city. Not once did i worry about where we trained or what i was standing in to watch that.

Yes its nice we have these new facilities and football has moved on, but most clubs have done similar over the years too. If we had a team worthy of these facilities we'd all be a lot happier, but the main reason we go along to Easter Road every other week is to watch the team, and thats been way down in the list of priorities of the club in my opinion.

I never expect to see Hibs play in the Championship, under any owner.

Correct, absolutely agree.

However the owner does have some duty towards the fans, even if he simply says Hibs have to self sufficient as I am not going to put any of my personal wealth into the club and that the club is up for sale to anyone who can do better than me and insure the club remains in a sound financial state for the community.

It may be that over the years he has said that, but with the natives restless it's time for a clarity statement from the club/owner.

[The Falcon]

I never expect to see Hibs play in the Championship, under any owner.

I don't disagree but my original point was that any owner, new or otherwise, will be treated the same if results are not to our satisfaction?

Hardly an encouragement for any potential suitors.

[greenginger]

Hardly a difficult task from a man of his wealth. Yes we have a new ground and a new training centre, but it really all boils down to what the product on the park produces.

If anyone thinks winning a few games in the championship makes up for what's been on the park for the last 6-7 seasons, then the clubs spin really has worked?

I have seen Hibs win 3 league cups, 2 Drybourgh cups and regularly beat both halves of the old firm and own that crowd over the other side of the city. Not once did i worry about where we trained or what i was standing in to watch that.

Yes its nice we have these new facilities and football has moved on, but most clubs have done similar over the years too. If we had a team worthy of these facilities we'd all be a lot happier, but the main reason we go along to Easter Road every other week is to watch the team, and thats been way down in the list of priorities of the club in my opinion.

I never expect to see Hibs play in the Championship, under any owner.



I don't think the team was actually far down on the list of the Club's priorities, it just they did'nt have a clue as how to improve things on the pitch.

Probably the worst thing to happen was Petrie getting lucky when he appointed Mowbray and a team falling into place.

Must have thought himself a genius and this football game easy. That lead to Collins, Mixu, Yogi, etc. and Petrie's big problem was not only did he not understand the dynamics of a football club , he did'nt know how to support his manager.

That meant if things got tough , the manager could'nt go to the Chairman and get the support, comfort ,encouragement that would normally come from a club chairman.

Hopefully things are improving with Stubbs and the new management team, but Petrie needs to resign as Club Chairman ASAP. and plans for post STF ownership explained, if this HoH nonsense is to be countered.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I've known Jackie since his playing days at Easter Road and he is a good guy and definitely not stupid.

I think he lets his personal politics dictate the way he sees things. IIRC his dad was in the communist party hierarchy back in the 60's and I think some of it rubbed off.

Result - Capitalist STF must be stealing from the proletariat

Hes one of the all time greats for me. But, if he's not stupid, he needs to stop saying stupid things.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I don't disagree but my original point was that any owner, new or otherwise, will be treated the same if results are not to our satisfaction?

Hardly an encouragement for any potential suitors.

:agree:

Totally lost on these bozos, with their replica training gear and catchy slogans about tires. Maybe they're in the wrong business?

[Cabbage East]

Hardly a difficult task from a man of his wealth. Yes we have a new ground and a new training centre, but it really all boils down to what the product on the park produces.

If anyone thinks winning a few games in the championship makes up for what's been on the park for the last 6-7 seasons, then the clubs spin really has worked?

I have seen Hibs win 3 league cups, 2 Drybourgh cups and regularly beat both halves of the old firm and own that crowd over the other side of the city. Not once did i worry about where we trained or what i was standing in to watch that.

Yes its nice we have these new facilities and football has moved on, but most clubs have done similar over the years too. If we had a team worthy of these facilities we'd all be a lot happier, but the main reason we go along to Easter Road every other week is to watch the team, and thats been way down in the list of priorities of the club in my opinion.

I never expect to see Hibs play in the Championship, under any owner.

Belter of a post. Spot on mate.

[WHUHibs]

Hes one of the all time greats for me. But, if he's not stupid, he needs to stop saying stupid things.

What did Jackie say and where is it substantiated ? Is it here say from one supporter?
I haven't read any direct quotes in the press perhaps I missed it?

[grunt]

1. It's not hearsay it was directly reported by GG, evidenced by his own eyes.

2. It's quite amusing to see a request for substantiation in a thread which is all about unsubstantiated claims.

[WHUHibs]

1. It's not hearsay it was directly reported by GG, evidenced by his own eyes.

2. It's quite amusing to see a request for substantiation in a thread which is all about unsubstantiated claims.

I don't agree with HOH for a start. However, everyone is basing an opinion on JM on one person?

[Peevemor]

I don't agree with HOH for a start. However, everyone is basing an opinion on JM on one person?

I'm not.

[WHUHibs]

I'm not.

So what are you basing it on?

[Peevemor]

So what are you basing it on?

Jackie MacNamara was one of my first Hibs heroes. I've met him a few times and always found him to be a good guy. I posted earlier in the thread that he's anything but stupid. I also posted earlier in the thread that since he was emptied along with Jim Duffy he seems to have had a lot of negative things to say about the way that Hibs are run. I got the dissappointing impression that he became a bit of a rent-a-gob when the papers were looking for negative comments about Hibs.

[WHUHibs]

Jackie MacNamara was one of my first Hibs heroes. I've met him a few times and always found him to be a good guy. I posted earlier in the thread that he's anything but stupid. I also posted earlier in the thread that since he was emptied along with Jim Duffy he seems to have had a lot of negative things to say about the way that Hibs are run. I got the dissappointing impression that he became a bit of a rent-a-gob when the papers were looking for negative comments about Hibs.

I think that's a shame as I have also met him on occasions and have found him a nice and open guy. If an employer does dismiss you then perhaps you can feel a little perturbed but perhaps he feels as an ex player he has a right to voice an opinion. Perhaps you and I who haven't worked in the club as a player have less of an insight than that a former player. Any former player who has an opinion either positive or negative gets my ear as they know more about the workings on the club that I do.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think that's a shame as I have also met him on occasions and have found him a nice and open guy. If an employer does dismiss you then perhaps you can feel a little perturbed but perhaps he feels as an ex player he has a right to voice an opinion. Perhaps you and I who haven't worked in the club as a player have less of an insight than that a former player. Any former player who has an opinion either positive or negative gets my ear as they know more about the workings on the club that I do.

My problem with Jackie is, if he's attaching himself to these folk who have been spreading what is in all honesty bull****, then any credibility he has will quickly evaporate?

Nobody in their right mind can take what they are saying seriously, its true that most folk want change but just making lies up and then refusing to answer those lies is just plain stupidity.

:confused:

[WHUHibs]

My problem with Jackie is, if he's attaching himself to these folk who have been spreading what is in all honesty bull****, then any credibility he has will quickly evaporate?

Nobody in their right mind can take what they are saying seriously, its true that most folk want change but just making lies up and then refusing to answer those lies is just plain stupidity.

:confused:

Fair comment,,

[greenginger]

My problem with Jackie is, if he's attaching himself to these folk who have been spreading what is in all honesty bull****, then any credibility he has will quickly evaporate?

Nobody in their right mind can take what they are saying seriously, its true that most folk want change but just making lies up and then refusing to answer those lies is just plain stupidity.

:confused:

Don't know about that. That was the ways revolutions started in the 60's. The bigger the lie , the easier it is believed by dissatisfied people, break things up and see how the pieces fall and make sure you are in the right place when the dust settles.

[blackpoolhibs]

Don't know about that. That was the ways revolutions started in the 60's. The bigger the lie , the easier it is believed by dissatisfied people, break things up and see how the pieces fall and make sure you are in the right place when the dust settles.

People are not so daft these days, :wink: and all the evidence is out there at the end of each and every persons finger tips.

What this lot who call themselves hibileaks are saying is so easily ripped apart for arse paper, anyone who believes it is basically dead from the neck up.

Next they will be telling us the moon landings were staged and filmed in a large barn in Texas. :wink::wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think that's a shame as I have also met him on occasions and have found him a nice and open guy. If an employer does dismiss you then perhaps you can feel a little perturbed but perhaps he feels as an ex player he has a right to voice an opinion. Perhaps you and I who haven't worked in the club as a player have less of an insight than that a former player. Any former player who has an opinion either positive or negative gets my ear as they know more about the workings on the club that I do.

If he said the stuff that he is reported to have said, would it make him a) wise b) foolish? We can speculate all night about his mindset, we can all give our own opinion on the alleged words in an instant.

Not getting at you sir, but it seems to be a constant in these threads for somebody to come on and tell us how we have misinterpreted something. (You didn't do this) but its usually something completely emotive like "Jackie is my pal, and I trust him - so there's all the proof you need".

Buried in all this a growing impression that HOH are a bunch of ill informed individuals, who are making things up about Hibs, and are beyond the normal rule of the law, or indeed logic.

Just for the record, he wasn't giving his opinion, he was alleged to be passing off facts to canvass support for his pressure group. He's not been speaking as a neutral, and it seems he's not being paying close attention to the facts.

[Kaiser1962]

I have seen Hibs win 3 league cups, 2 Drybourgh cups and regularly beat both halves of the old firm and own that crowd over the other side of the city. Not once did i worry about where we trained or what i was standing in to watch that.


I think we held our own with Der Hun over about 4-5 seasons in the early seventies but outside that wee period our record is not good. We did do well against them in knock out comps at that time although not so well in the league. Our record against Celtic is not so good although we did do well against them in the Drybrugh Cup. I recall AG's late winner in the second final was started by a Shades tackle at the edge of his own box. I was in the North Stand that day and the South for the 5-3 game.

You are right about Hearts.

[WHUHibs]

If he said the stuff that he is reported to have said, would it make him a) wise b) foolish? We can speculate all night about his mindset, we can all give our own opinion on the alleged words in an instant.

Not getting at you sir, but it seems to be a constant in these threads for somebody to come on and tell us how we have misinterpreted something. (You didn't do this) but its usually something completely emotive like "Jackie is my pal, and I trust him - so there's all the proof you need".

Buried in all this a growing impression that HOH are a bunch of ill informed individuals, who are making things up about Hibs, and are beyond the normal rule of the law, or indeed logic.

Just for the record, he wasn't giving his opinion, he was alleged to be passing off facts to canvass support for his pressure group. He's not been speaking as a neutral, and it seems he's not being paying close attention to the facts.

I'm just interested when people make statements and I'm not judging just wish to understand. As you say we can all interpret things differently and I can only go on my meeting the man. I think Hibs need a change in direction and a new way of thinking but HOH if they make statements they need to provide proof.

[The Green Goblin]

I'm just interested when people make statements and I'm not judging just wish to understand. As you say we can all interpret things differently and I can only go on my meeting the man. I think Hibs need a change in direction and a new way of thinking but HOH if they make statements they need to provide proof.

I think many people feel that it would still be better to stick with the current man, faults and all, than replace him with the wrong man.

[ancient hibee]

I had a run in with one of these guys on the way into the ground on Wednesday.He tried to force me to take a card and then tried to shove it in my pocket.He got quite upset(and aggressive)when I suggested an alternative resting place for it.

[bingo70]

I don't agree with them or the way they're going about their business but I do think farmer remaining silent throughout all this is pretty poor and shows a level of contempt for the supporters.

He could put all this pish to bed by outlining his future plans for the club.

[portyhibernian]

The way I see it is HOH either put up or shut up. I'm no Petrie/Farmer lover but this nonsense is counter productive and harmful in terms of uniting the support.

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't agree with them or the way they're going about their business but I do think farmer remaining silent throughout all this is pretty poor and shows a level of contempt for the supporters.

He could put all this pish to bed by outlining his future plans for the club.

He hasn't remained silent TBF. He has answered HoH's letters.

I would, however, expect something at the AGM, if one is held this year.

[bingo70]

He hasn't remained silent TBF. He has answered HoH's letters.

I would, however, expect something at the AGM, if one is held this year.

Was that not petrie?

Even if it was him though, a private letter's not what I was hoping for.

The club's a shambles just now imo and we need leadership from the very top, we're not getting that.

[jodjam]

Just drove along gorgie road. Tom and rod outside the gym holding signs saying "boxing hurts"

The gloves are aff

[blackpoolhibs]

Just drove along gorgie road. Tom and rod outside the gym holding signs saying "boxing hurts"

The gloves are aff


:take that:tee hee:

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

I don't agree with them or the way they're going about their business but I do think farmer remaining silent throughout all this is pretty poor and shows a level of contempt for the supporters.

He could put all this pish to bed by outlining his future plans for the club.

To be fair to him, he's really not well and his health maybe comes before responding to pish lies?

[silverhibee]

I don't agree with them or the way they're going about their business but I do think farmer remaining silent throughout all this is pretty poor and shows a level of contempt for the supporters.

He could put all this pish to bed by outlining his future plans for the club.

They are trying to force Farmer in to making a statement regards the allegations they are making and if he wants to remain owner then let the fans no what the vision is for the club moving forward, right now we no nothing, HOH will not go away, they are going to be a thorn in Farmers side until he speaks to the Hibs Family, if he doesn't then it wouldn't surprise me if HOH really do take "time for action" to another level, HOH want rid of Farmer and Petrie simple as that, how they go about it is, they step up the pressure, but there has to be more to this than just forcing they 2 out, they don't intend to buy the club so there motives must have some backing from someone in the background who doesn't want to be named but may have a interest in buying the club at a cut down price.

[silverhibee]

He hasn't remained silent TBF. He has answered HoH's letters.

I would, however, expect something at the AGM, if one is held this year.


Was that the letters delivered to his house by kids. :greengrin

Why wouldn't a AGM be held this year.

[silverhibee]

To be fair to him, he's really not well and his health maybe comes before responding to pish lies?

But yet plenty folk have had meetings with him,other folk have met him and say he is in decent health, just old age catching up on him i think.

[oldbutdim]

But yet plenty folk have had meetings with him,other folk have met him and say he is in decent health, just old age catching up on him i think.

I saw him take part in the QMU ceremonies a few months ago, congratulating the successful students. He delivered a decent speech too.
Seemed in pretty decent nick to me.
:agree:

[grunt]

... let the fans no what the vision is for the club moving forward, right now we no nothing...

Your argument could equally he applied to HoH.

[silverhibee]

Your argument could equally he applied to HoH.

I don't think HOH have plans to take over Hibs, i think there main aim is to remove Farmer & Petrie from the club and put enough pressure on them to sell the club.

[Golden Bear]

I don't think HOH have plans to take over Hibs, i think there main aim is to remove Farmer & Petrie from the club and put enough pressure on them to sell the club.

But that will only work if there is a viable and trustworthy alternative waiting on the wings and right now that doesn't appear to be the case.

[southsider]

But that will only work if there is a viable and trustworthy alternative waiting on the wings and right now that doesn't appear to be the case.
What happened to the group Paul Kane was spokesman for ? I understand they met with STF but i have not heard a lot since.

[Keith_M]

What happened to the group Paul Kane was spokesman for ? I understand they met with STF but i have not heard a lot since.


IIRC, they made an offer, which was rejected.

Kano (I think) then complained in the Press about Petrie 'moving the Goalposts'.

[southsider]

Thanks for that. That guy Kennedy said the same thing but that time STF was probably right.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Thanks for that. That guy Kennedy said the same thing but that time STF was probably right.

You would hope for man at that level to be consistently right with his decisions.

[Jack]

Thanks for that. That guy Kennedy said the same thing but that time STF was probably right.

Rather than move the goalposts I'd hope STF ******g hid them from that opportunistic ... person.

Anyone any ideas on hoh/imneedinaleak latest move?

Has anyone ceased to exist, Norwegian Blue style, as result of their so far, unsubstantiated claims? Come on guys, spill.

Been a few days.

[silverhibee]

Rather than move the goalposts I'd hope STF ******g hid them from that opportunistic ... person.

Anyone any ideas on hoh/imneedinaleak latest move?

Has anyone ceased to exist, Norwegian Blue style, as result of their so far, unsubstantiated claims? Come on guys, spill.

Been a few days.

See Irvine Welsh has said something on the twitter link.

[Jonnyboy]

See Irvine Welsh has said something on the twitter link.

Any chance you could offer up a clue as to what he said for us non twitterererers? :greengrin

[silverhibee]

Any chance you could offer up a clue as to what he said for us non twitterererers? :greengrin

"Will Tom Farmer publicly commit to the future of Easter Road Stadium and Hibernian staying together" @IrvineWelsh#HOH

[silverhibee]

"this is just the beginning" @HOH

[Jonnyboy]

"Will Tom Farmer publicly commit to the future of Easter Road Stadium and Hibernian staying together" @IrvineWelsh#HOH


"this is just the beginning" @HOH

Ta P :aok:

[silverhibee]

Ta P :aok:

No probs J.

Irvine Welsh as new owner. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

"Will Tom Farmer publicly commit to the future of Easter Road Stadium and Hibernian staying together" @IrvineWelsh#HOH

TBF, that's not him saying it. He has re-tweeted what HOH said.

[Kato]

TBF, that's not him saying it. He has re-tweeted what HOH said.

So I suppose, like Jacke Mac, that makes IW not much of a thinker.

[silverhibee]

TBF, that's not him saying it. He has re-tweeted what HOH said.

I'm not a twittererer either like John.

Just read it and thought it was him that tweeted that, take it he is backing the group though.

[marinello59]

I'm not a twittererer either like John.

Just read it and thought it was him that tweeted that, take it he is backing the group though.

I don't care what it is, once anything gets a celebrity endorsement I'm against it.
Maybe IW will become our Delia in the centre circle before every match. Let's be 'aving you! :greengrin

[FranckSuzy]

I don't care what it is, once anything gets a celebrity endorsement I'm against it.
Maybe IW will become our Delia in the centre circle before every match. Let's be 'aving you! :greengrin

It'll be "Let's be 'aving you, ya f&%ing %$£s" if so :tee hee:

[silverhibee]

I don't care what it is, once anything gets a celebrity endorsement I'm against it.
Maybe IW will become our Delia in the centre circle before every match. Let's be 'aving you! :greengrin

That's if he is in any state to make it on to the centre circle. :wink: :greengrin


It's a family board but it won't be "Let's be aving you" :greengrin

[Nando™]

It'll be "Let's be 'aving you, ya f&%ing %$£s" if so :tee hee:

:tee hee:

[Brightside]

TBF, that's not him saying it. He has re-tweeted what HOH said.

and he was probably piyeshed when he did it.... he retweets some right old guff on a daily basis.

[marinello59]

and he was probably piyeshed when he did it.... he retweets some right old guff on a daily basis.

Isn't that what everybody does on Twitter though?

[RIP]

What happened to the group Paul Kane was spokesman for ? I understand they met with STF but i have not heard a lot since.

Paul, Kenny McLean and Mike Riley told us at a public meeting that the Petrie Out/Forever Hibernian campaigns were going to be shelved whilst work was carried out to look in depth at options for community ownership. Apparently there are trust, tax, shareholding and other issues that will need sorted out before any group will be ready to put a fresh proposition together. That probably involves recruiting experienced business professionals from within the Hibernian family, poring over club finances/shareholdings and working out all the accounting, HMRC and legal constraints. Not a quick job I wouldn't think.:dunno:

[ancient hibee]

Paul, Kenny McLean and Mike Riley told us at a public meeting that the Petrie Out/Forever Hibernian campaigns were going to be shelved whilst work was carried out to look in depth at options for community ownership. Apparently there are trust, tax, shareholding and other issues that will need sorted out before any group will be ready to put a fresh proposition together. That probably involves recruiting experienced business professionals from within the Hibernian family, poring over club finances/shareholdings and working out all the accounting, HMRC and legal constraints. Not a quick job I wouldn't think.:dunno:

So were these some of the people who put in an offer without doing any of these investigations?

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

That's if he is in any state to make it on to the centre circle. :wink: :greengrin


It's a family board but it won't be "Let's be aving you" :greengrin

To be fair, Delia was in quite a nick herself that night lol

[RIP]

So were these some of the people who put in an offer without doing any of these investigations?

Interesting mix of assumptions

[marinello59]

To be fair, Delia was in quite a nick herself that night lol

Totally steaming. :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Interesting mix of assumptions

It looked like a question, rather than an assumption, to me.

[ancient hibee]

Interesting mix of assumptions

What do you mean-it's a question-is there an answer?

[KeithTheHibby]

There was a meeting today between HOH and Messrs RP, LD and other members of the board. I will try and post the comments.

[KeithTheHibby]

13744


Best I can do uploading from an app to a webpage I'm afraid!

[Kato]

There was a meeting today between HOH and Messrs RP, LD and other members of the board. I will try and post the comments.

So these "stupid" "irresponsible" "idiots" have enough clout to enter into a dialogue with the club at the highest level.

Seems like they are getting somewhere.

[KeithTheHibby]

So these "stupid" "irresponsible" "idiots" have enough clout to enter into a dialogue with the club at the highest level.

Seems like they are getting somewhere.


Doing a damn site more than anyone else that's for sure.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Couple of fannies

[Scouse Hibee]

I wonder if HOH actually managed to answer any questions or did they once again just try to belittle anyone that didn't agree with them.

[Kato]

I wonder if HOH actually managed to answer any questions or did they once again just try to belittle anyone that didn't agree with them.


That'll be the same thing reversed then.

[Kato]

Doing a damn site more than anyone else that's for sure.


Indulging in Agitprop more than anything else. Never did any harm. Better than sitting behind (hibs) net-curtains tutt-tutting intae a handbag.

[Kato]

Couple of fannies

Great post, bighairyfaeleith. That'll get the discussion going. :aok:

[Scouse Hibee]

That'll be the same thing reversed then.


Eh? I'm talking from personal experience, asked a perfectly reasonable question on FB ang got a ****ty response, before that I had an open mind but not now.

[greenginger]

Doing a damn site more than anyone else that's for sure.


Was the allegations of STF stealing from the the Club raised ?

[grunt]

Hands On Hibs raised the issues of importance to our group. That Easter Road Stadium should be owned by the football club- forever and that Hibernian Football Club should be owned by the community- forever. The Chairman and club representativesengaged in a meaningful and positive discussion of these issues and we have agreed to continue the dialogue.interesting viewpoint. Wonder how "the community" would have been able to make emergency loans available as STF apparently has this year. Whip round, everyone?

[Scouse Hibee]

A couple of questions raised and silence from their supporters, seems to be a reoccurring theme :cb

[Carheenlea]

Just out of curiosity - is this the same Jim Slaven from The James Connolly Society?

[bighairyfaeleith]

I try my best :)

[Scouse Hibee]

Just out of curiosity - is this the same Jim Slaven from The James Connolly Society?


Who are they?

[Mikey]

Who are they?

From Wikipedia.........


Their former national organiser Jim Slaven is also secretary of the Edinburgh-based James Connolly Society. Slavin was an active campaigner on behalf of the three IRA suspects sentenced in their absence to 17 years for aiding terrorists in Colombia - the Colombia Three. He was fined £350 and jailed for 14 days after refusing to pay after conviction for inciting people to attack police officers and resisting arrest in 1993 at an illegal march.[2] Slavin resigned from the organisation in December 2007 to pursue other opportunities outside politics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairde_na_h%C3%89ireann

[RIP]

interesting viewpoint. Wonder how "the community" would have been able to make emergency loans available as STF apparently has this year. Whip round, everyone?

In my view the mostly likely model of community ownership is a 4 way split. Farmer. Large single investor. Hibs supporting business consortium. Ordinary fan membership scheme.

Farmer or his trust would keep a minimum of 26% to ensure veto rights. The single investor would replace Farmer as bank of last resort/Leigh fund :-)

[Scouse Hibee]

From Wikipedia.........



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairde_na_h%C3%89ireann


:aok:

[djs69]

I will ask again, where is all the evidence this group has on the so called liars and thieves that is the Hibs board and owners? Have I missed it??

[Scouse Hibee]

I will ask again, where is all the evidence this group has on the so called liars and thieves that is the Hibs board and owners? Have I missed it??


I think they may have mislaid it. :greengrin

[grunt]

In my view the mostly likely model of community ownership is a 4 way split. Farmer. Large single investor. Hibs supporting business consortium. Ordinary fan membership scheme.
)

Thanks,that's very interesting. Which of these roles would be filled by Jim Slaven and Bradley Welsh?

[bighairyfaeleith]

Thanks,that's very interesting. Which of these roles would be filled by Jim Slaven and Bradley Welsh?

none, they represent no one and have no cash. The day a couple of eejits like that get anywhere near controlling Hibs is the day I pack in supporting football for good.

[KeithTheHibby]

Was the allegations of STF stealing from the the Club raised ?

I have no idea what was raised.

[KeithTheHibby]

A couple of questions raised and silence from their supporters, seems to be a reoccurring theme :cb

Do you mean me? I don't support them nor am I against them.
The fact that they have managed to get a meeting with the people running the club clearly shows that they are not prepared to dismiss their actions in the same way many people on here are doing.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Could it be that what was discussed was their allegations?

[HappyAsHellas]

Could it be that what was discussed was their allegations?

I would certainly hope so.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Do you mean me? I don't support them nor am I against them.
The fact that they have managed to get a meeting with the people running the club clearly shows that they are not prepared to dismiss their actions in the same way many people on here are doing.
What it means is farmer has phoned petrie and telt him to get these fannies off his forecourt

Job done.

[Peevemor]

Could it be that what was discussed was their allegations?

I would guess that they've been pulled in front of the board to be warned about the stuff their publishing. They say that they're willing to work with STF, etc. - I'm sure everyone at Hibs will sleep better knowing that!

The fact is that STF holds all the cards. If he looks at the stick he gets on here and elsewhere he'd be within his rights to say "frack this for a game of sodjers", shut the club down, sell ER/EM and get some dosh back.

There's not a thing that anyone could do about it.

[Peevemor]

What it means is farmer has phoned petrie and telt him to get these fannies off his forecourt

Job done.

:agree:

[blackpoolhibs]

I would guess that they've been pulled in front of the board to be warned about the stuff their publishing. They say that they're willing to work with STF, etc. - I'm sure everyone at Hibs will sleep better knowing that!

The fact is that STF holds all the cards. If he looks at the stick he gets on here and elsewhere he'd be within his rights to say "frack this for a game of sodjers", shut the club down, sell ER/EM and get some dosh back.

There's not a thing that anyone could do about it.

I think he will remember a certain fat tory ******* tried that, and wont want the trouble that would arrive on his doorstep should he even think about doing that.

[silverhibee]

What it means is farmer has phoned petrie and telt him to get these fannies off his forecourt

Job done.

Would he not have phoned Leeann Dempster.

[Slim Shady]

I would guess that they've been pulled in front of the board to be warned about the stuff their publishing. They say that they're willing to work with STF, etc. - I'm sure everyone at Hibs will sleep better knowing that! .

Yep and they will be worried about Rod (who claims to have nowt to do with running of club) and STF giving them warnings. Sounds like Jim Slaven (from above reports) doesn't care too much others say, law or otherwise.

[AndyM_1875]

none, they represent no one and have no cash. The day a couple of eejits like that get anywhere near controlling Hibs is the day I pack in supporting football for good.

Correct.
They care about our club and that's admirable but neither is capable of bringing any serious investor to the table. They expect Sir Tom to hand the club to a fan group for hee haw including £23m of book value assets.
How likely is that? Hmm...

[Peevemor]

I think he will remember a certain fat tory ******* tried that, and wont want the trouble that would arrive on his doorstep should he even think about doing that.

Of course there would be carnage but it's a different situation. FTB tried to dress an asset stripping exercise up as something else and the fact that our greatest rivals were involved added extra spice.

Hibs supporters can protest all they want, boycott matches, whatever - the bottom line is that no-one is in a position to make demands of STF in relation to Hibs.

What's ironic in all this is that most of our problems have arisen because the board have done too much over the years in accordance with the fans' wishes.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Of course there would be carnage but it's a different situation. FTB tried to dress an asset stripping exercise up as something else and the fact that our greatest rivals were involved added extra spice.

Hibs supporters can protest all they want, boycott matches, whatever - the bottom line is that no-one is in a position to make demands of STF in relation to Hibs.

What's ironic in all this is that most of our problems have arisen because the board have done too much over the years in accordance with the fans' wishes.

No what is ironic is that the board has no idea of what Football is and means to supporter's, yet some continue to back these joker's who have taken us down to where we are now....STF and RP wouldn't know a fitba, if it hit them in the henry's

[Peevemor]

Would he not have phoned Leeann Dempster.

Conduit- remember?

[Elephant Stone]

Of course there would be carnage but it's a different situation. FTB tried to dress an asset stripping exercise up as something else and the fact that our greatest rivals were involved added extra spice.

Hibs supporters can protest all they want, boycott matches, whatever - the bottom line is that no-one is in a position to make demands of STF in relation to Hibs.

What's ironic in all this is that most of our problems have arisen because the board have done too much over the years in accordance with the fans' wishes.

Yup, completely agree.

[Peevemor]

Yep and they will be worried about Rod (who claims to have nowt to do with running of club) and STF giving them warnings. Sounds like Jim Slaven (from above reports) doesn't care too much others say, law or otherwise.

RP is the club chairman, therefore he has everything to do with it's running. Who is employed and delegated to carry out the day to day management is another issue.

[Slim Shady]

So because he's the chairman and tells the naughty boys to stop, you think they are going to?

[blackpoolhibs]

No what is ironic is that the board has no idea of what Football is and means to supporter's, yet some continue to back these joker's who have taken us down to where we are now....STF and RP wouldn't know a fitba, if it hit them in the henry's

Exactly, an owner who doesn't give a toss about the club or the community he laughably saved it for. And a clown STF put in charge to run it in his absence who couldn't find a ride in a barrel of phannies.

[HappyAsHellas]

Exactly, an owner who doesn't give a toss about the club or the community he laughably saved it for. And a clown STF put in charge to run it in his absence who couldn't find a ride in a barrel of phannies.

That may be the case to a certain extent, but I'd rather have them than the HOH phannies, any day of the week.

[Peevemor]

So because he's the chairman and tells the naughty boys to stop, you think they are going to?

A bunch of guys in the back room of a gym, making up and publishing (on the Web and in print) slanderous rumours about a multi-millionaire international businessman. Who do you think will finish on top?

And do you honestly think that, in his rags to riches career, STF has never encountered bams who needed kept in their place?

[PatHead]

Exactly, an owner who doesn't give a toss about the club or the community he laughably saved it for. And a clown STF put in charge to run it in his absence who couldn't find a ride in a barrel of phannies.

For someone who doesn't give a toss he has deep pockets. Not only a Mercer time but at other times throughout the years. The problem has been with choices made throughout the term since in terms of managers and players.

Do you really think he takes pleasure in seeing the club in its current state?

[Baldy Foghorn]

A bunch of guys in the back room of a gym, making up and publishing (on the Web and in print) slanderous rumours about a multi-millionaire international businessman. Who do you think will finish on top?

And do you honestly think that, in his rags to riches career, STF has never encountered bams who needed kept in their place?

Why did the Club agree to meet them if indeed their claims were slanderous? Do you not think a letter from STF lawyer's would do the trick?

[Baldy Foghorn]

For someone who doesn't give a toss he has deep pockets. Not only a Mercer time but at other times throughout the years. The problem has been with choices made throughout the term since in terms of managers and players.

Do you really think he takes pleasure in seeing the club in its current state?

I don't think he takes it to heart like the rest of us......His stubborness keeping RP in situ will be his downfall.....

[Peevemor]

Why did the Club agree to meet them if indeed their claims were slanderous? Do you not think a letter from STF lawyer's would do the trick?

I'm guessing here, but I reckon the club called them in (a bit different from 'agreeing to meet') to put them straight about the possible repercussions of continuing with their nonsense. If it carries on then I'd imagine that the lawyers will be brought into play.

[KeithTheHibby]

Why did the Club agree to meet them if indeed their claims were slanderous? Do you not think a letter from STF lawyer's would do the trick?

This. I doubt you'll get an answer mind you.

[blackpoolhibs]

That may be the case to a certain extent, but I'd rather have them than the HOH phannies, any day of the week.

I'd rather have neither.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I'm guessing here, but I reckon the club called them in (a bit different from 'agreeing to meet') to put them straight about the possible repercussions of continuing with their nonsense. If it carries on then I'd imagine that the lawyers will be brought into play.

Plausible.....

[PatHead]

This. I doubt you'll get an answer mind you.

From whom?

[Lucius Apuleius]

I'm guessing here, but I reckon the club called them in (a bit different from 'agreeing to meet') to put them straight about the possible repercussions of continuing with their nonsense. If it carries on then I'd imagine that the lawyers will be brought into play.

That's what I was wanting to hear.

[Kato]

I'm guessing here, but I reckon the club called them in (a bit different from 'agreeing to meet') to put them straight about the possible repercussions of continuing with their nonsense. If it carries on then I'd imagine that the lawyers will be brought into play.

I'm guessing you're wrong.

[Kato]

Eh? I'm talking from personal experience, asked a perfectly reasonable question on FB ang got a ****ty response, before that I had an open mind but not now.

Well, I don't think that's fair but a spat on facebook isn't the be all and end all.

What was the question?

[Peevemor]

I'm guessing you're wrong.

So what's your take on it then?

[ancient hibee]

I don't think he takes it to heart like the rest of us......His stubborness keeping RP in situ will be his downfall.....


Downfall!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He holds all the aces-fancy a game of poker?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Downfall!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He holds all the aces-fancy a game of poker?

No thanks:greengrin

[ancient hibee]

No thanks:greengrin

Snap then?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Snap then?

Something simple (like me)

[ancient hibee]

Something simple (like me)

You're trying to lull me into a false sense of security.Mummy warned me about people like you.

[Peevemor]

I'm guessing you're wrong.

RP called the meeting. Do you think it was simply to have a nice wee chat? Maybe he's going to offer Brad a seat on the board?

[Kato]

So what's your take on it then?

I don't have a take on it

I'm just guessing the opposite of your guess before the internet does what it usually does and takes your guess, turns it into a rumour, which then gets reposted on here as fact thereby allowing your guess to be affirmed as being correct and being set in in stone as "FACT, END OFF", when it's only a really a guess with zero basis in fact.

I've found over the years aimless, negative internet speculation is one of the least helpful standpoints to take on anything.

Then again. If STF was to take exception to what HOH are saying/doing I doubt they would be invited in for a cosy chat in the board-room. I also doubt the HOH parties involved would claim that said chat was constructive if the invite was and attempt at a rap on the knuckles, quite the opposite - they'd ramp up the invective.

I'll say it again. I think the "claims" and "truth" coming from HOH is mere agitprop and an attempt to provoke some kind, any kind, of positive action from the owners. Which is far more than anyone else is doing at the moment. I don't think the HoH guys at the meeting today see themselves as being the people to be the representatives on the board or in any kind of position of power at ER. They are just trying to kickstart some kind of positive reaction to balance all the stultifying, complacent, smug mediocrity we've been subjected to since 2007.

Catalysts.

For me, and I understand that many disagree and a lot of people's rizla-thin sense of propriety is taking a knock, someone has to say something to get things moving and no-one is other than them. I don't a monkeys about said people's sense of propriety and they are entitled to disagree but we've all sat on out hands too long and put up with too much crap for it to continue. Hopefully it gets some real stuff moving and the agitprop will be forgotten when that happens.

[Kato]

RP called the meeting. Do you think it was simply to have a nice wee chat? Maybe he's going to offer Brad a seat on the board?

Sarcasm is cheap and occasionally funny.

Occasionally.

That's not a guess.

[Peevemor]

I don't have a take on it

I'm just guessing the opposite of your guess before the internet does what it usually does and takes your guess, turns it into a rumour, which then gets reposted on here as fact thereby allowing your guess to be affirmed as being correct and being set in in stone as "FACT, END OFF", when it's only a really a guess with zero basis in fact.

I've found over the years aimless, negative internet speculation is one of the least helpful standpoints to take on anything.

Then again. If STF was to take exception to what HOH are saying/doing I doubt they would be invited in for a cosy chat in the board-room. I also doubt the HOH parties involved would claim that said chat was constructive if the invite was and attempt at a rap on the knuckles, quite the opposite - they'd ramp up the invective.

I'll say it again. I think the "claims" and "truth" coming from HOH is mere agitprop and an attempt to provoke some kind, any kind, of positive action from the owners. Which is far more than anyone else is doing at the moment. I don't think the HoH guys at the meeting today see themselves as being the people to be the representatives on the board or in any kind of position of power at ER. They are just trying to kickstart some kind of positive reaction to balance all the stultifying, complacent, smug mediocrity we've been subjected to since 2007.

Catalysts.

For me, and I understand that many disagree and a lot of people's rizla-thin sense of propriety is taking a knock, someone has to say something to get things moving and no-one is other than them. I don't a monkeys about said people's sense of propriety and they are entitled to disagree but we've all sat on out hands too long and put up with too much crap for it to continue. Hopefully it gets some real stuff moving and the agitprop will be forgotten when that happens.

So it's OK for HoH to publish unfounded speculation but not for me to hazard a guess at stuff on a fans' forum?

I'd imagine that STF has indeed taken objection to the HoH stuff, but it wouldn't be good PR to enter into litigation with any fans' group, especially at this point in time.

[Kato]

So it's OK for HoH to publish unfounded speculation but not for me to hazard a guess at stuff on a fans' forum?


Your imagining I said anything at all about what I think you should and shouldn't post.


I'd imagine that STF has indeed taken objection to the HoH stuff, but it wouldn't be good PR to enter into litigation with any fans' group, especially at this point in time.

There it is, your imagination again.

[SunshineOnLeith]

I've found over the years aimless, negative internet speculation is one of the least helpful standpoints to take on anything.



Well, quite. Glad we're agreed. Oh, what's that, you're not finished?




Then again. If STF was to take exception to what HOH are saying/doing I doubt they would be invited in for a cosy chat in the board-room. I also doubt the HOH parties involved would claim that said chat was constructive if the invite was and attempt at a rap on the knuckles, quite the opposite - they'd ramp up the invective.

I'll say it again. I think the "claims" and "truth" coming from HOH is mere agitprop and an attempt to provoke some kind, any kind, of positive action from the owners. Which is far more than anyone else is doing at the moment. I don't think the HoH guys at the meeting today see themselves as being the people to be the representatives on the board or in any kind of position of power at ER. They are just trying to kickstart some kind of positive reaction to balance all the stultifying, complacent, smug mediocrity we've been subjected to since 2007.

Catalysts.

For me, and I understand that many disagree and a lot of people's rizla-thin sense of propriety is taking a knock, someone has to say something to get things moving and no-one is other than them. I don't a monkeys about said people's sense of propriety and they are entitled to disagree but we've all sat on out hands too long and put up with too much crap for it to continue. Hopefully it gets some real stuff moving and the agitprop will be forgotten when that happens.

Oh.

[Kato]

Well, quite. Glad we're agreed. Oh, what's that, you're not finished?



Oh.


Cheers :aok:

Is there anything else you'd like to share?

[SunshineOnLeith]

Cheers :aok:

Is there anything else you'd like to share?

Nope. Just enjoying your juxtaposition of a dismissal of internet speculation as being unhelpful, with a faux-intellectual treatise on the merits of internet speculation.

Nicely done, Sir.

[Kato]

Nope. Just enjoying your juxtaposition of a dismissal of internet speculation as being unhelpful, with a faux-intellectual treatise on the merits of internet speculation.

Nicely done, Sir.

You're allowing your superciliousness get in the way of your reading and interpretation skills.

I said "negative internet speculation". HoH isn't negative internet speculation and it's not all or even half way all being played out on the internet.

Go back and read it again then write out "Paddy Stanton is God" five hundred times - that's "Paddy Stanton is God" in case you sped-read it first time.

[SunshineOnLeith]

You're allowing your superciliousness get in the way of your reading and interpretation skills.

I said "negative internet speculation". HoH isn't negative internet speculation and it's not all or even half way all being played out on the internet.

Go back and read it again then write out "Paddy Stanton is God" five hundred times - that's "Paddy Stanton is God" in case you sped-read it first time.

Put down the thesaurus, you'll give yourself a papercut.

How is the dissemination of malicious lies about Hibs and STF on the internet anything other than negative?

As for the proportion of Bradley and the terrorist sympathiser's nonsense which is online, who cares? Handing out fliers outside Easter Road on a matchday with malicious lies on them ranks parri-passu with posting the same lies online, in my opinion.

[The Green Goblin]

The single but fatal failing of HOH remains that they have made a lot of pretty serious allegations of misconduct on the part of STF at Hibs' expense, but they have yet to produce one single credible piece of evidence to back any of them up. For that reason, they are just making themselves look foolish and achieving nothing useful of any kind to anyone whatsoever. Whatever you think of STF's ownership of Hibs, the man has a right to defend himself against very publicly made slanderous and unsubtantiated allegations.

[marinello59]

I'm guessing here, but I reckon the club called them in (a bit different from 'agreeing to meet') to put them straight about the possible repercussions of continuing with their nonsense. If it carries on then I'd imagine that the lawyers will be brought into play.

Unless the club says otherwise we have to take HoH's statement at face value, they are now working with the board to move things on. By meeting them without refuting any of the allegations made I would suggest that the club have now have given them a hefty dose of credibility.

[Kato]

Put down the thesaurus, you'll give yourself a papercut.

Good advice, thanks.


How is the dissemination of malicious lies about Hibs and STF on the internet anything other than negative?

If it leads to dialogue, which it has, which then leads onto positive change which hopefully it will.

I already said as much above but you choose or can't apparently see that because of misplaced sense of outrage.


As for the proportion of Bradley and the terrorist sympathiser's nonsense which is online, who cares?


Not me.


Handing out fliers outside Easter Road on a matchday with malicious lies on them ranks parri-passu with posting the same lies online, in my opinion.

Your entitled to your opinion.

[grunt]

Unless the club says otherwise we have to take HoH's statement at face value....

I'm very sorry but speaking personally I refuse to take anything that HoH says at face value.

[matty_f]

The issue I have with HoH (aside from spreading what appear to be completely malicious and unfounded lies) is that their two goals (stadium and club staying together, community ownership) seem a bit redundant.

Has there been any suggestion anywhere post-Straiton that Easter Road is in line to be separated from the Club? Is this even an issue? To me it's like campaigning to ensure we keep the name Hibernian, or keep playing in green, or don't become a netball team, or have Easter Road used for alien landings.

As for community ownership - is there a wide consensus that this is what the Hibernian community want? And what is their definition of the community? Keith? Edinburgh? Hibs fans?

They've plucked two important sounding but ultimately totally vacant big ticket items to focus on. Of course people will agree with the sentiment because they're emotive points on the face of it. But then again I could start a Hands on Hibs campaign on the key points that Hearts should never be allowed to buy us, and we should not ban black people from Easter Road. I'm sure the vast majority of the support would acknowledge that both points are worth fighting for, but there is no suggestion that either item is ever likely to become an issue.

[s.a.m]

Unless the club says otherwise we have to take HoH's statement at face value, they are now working with the board to move things on. By meeting them without refuting any of the allegations made I would suggest that the club have now have given them a hefty dose of credibility.

Hmm. HOH have spent the last month or so campaigning through leaflets, cards, protests and social networking to try to convince us that STF are thieves and liars who are destroying the club from within, and they claim to have proof of this. Yet after a wee chat, they're happy to work with them to find a way forward. It's a funny sort of credibility.

I would like the club to make a statement, but in the absence of it I don't know that I'd agree that it gives HOH the upper hand. The picture I have in my mind is of a teacher giving the two naughty boys in the class 'important' chief helper jobs, like tidying up the milk cartons, or sharpening the pencils.

[Jack]

The issue I have with HoH (aside from spreading what appear to be completely malicious and unfounded lies) is that their two goals (stadium and club staying together, community ownership) seem a bit redundant.

Has there been any suggestion anywhere post-Straiton that Easter Road is in line to be separated from the Club? Is this even an issue? To me it's like campaigning to ensure we keep the name Hibernian, or keep playing in green, or don't become a netball team, or have Easter Road used for alien landings.

As for community ownership - is there a wide consensus that this is what the Hibernian community want? And what is their definition of the community? Keith? Edinburgh? Hibs fans?

They've plucked two important sounding but ultimately totally vacant big ticket items to focus on. Of course people will agree with the sentiment because they're emotive points on the face of it. But then again I could start a Hands on Hibs campaign on the key points that Hearts should never be allowed to buy us, and we should not ban black people from Easter Road. I'm sure the vast majority of the support would acknowledge that both points are worth fighting for, but there is no suggestion that either item is ever likely to become an issue.

If you look at the Dunfermline and Motherwell models of ownership then I think, stress think, you'll find football club and ground/assets have been separated.

IIRC this has been done to strengthen the business model and very much more difficult for any single person/consortium to take over. Add in the Community Interest Status and I think that makes the set up pretty carpet bagger proof.

So, aside from the allegations made, their raison d'être isn't just redundant but not in the clubs best interest.

[Harpandcastle]

The issue I have with HoH (aside from spreading what appear to be completely malicious and unfounded lies) is that their two goals (stadium and club staying together, community ownership) seem a bit redundant.

Has there been any suggestion anywhere post-Straiton that Easter Road is in line to be separated from the Club? Is this even an issue? To me it's like campaigning to ensure we keep the name Hibernian, or keep playing in green, or don't become a netball team, or have Easter Road used for alien landings.

As for community ownership - is there a wide consensus that this is what the Hibernian community want? And what is their definition of the community? Keith? Edinburgh? Hibs fans?

They've plucked two important sounding but ultimately totally vacant big ticket items to focus on. Of course people will agree with the sentiment because they're emotive points on the face of it. But then again I could start a Hands on Hibs campaign on the key points that Hearts should never be allowed to buy us, and we should not ban black people from Easter Road. I'm sure the vast majority of the support would acknowledge that both points are worth fighting for, but there is no suggestion that either item is ever likely to become an issue.

I was at one of the Q&A nights a few weeks back (Wednesday) and at that meeting Leeann said one of the possible ways forward for Hibernian was to separate into a Propco / Opco setup. I was of the opinion this was seperating the footballing operation from the properties and assumed this was the concern of HOH.

[The Green Goblin]

The picture I have in my mind is of a teacher giving the two naughty boys in the class important 'chief helper' jobs, like tidying up the milk cartons, or sharpening the pencils.

:greengrin Heh heh

[greenginger]

The HoH business and the smearing of STF brings back memories of what happened in the 1980's.

Back then Kenny Waugh was'nt too popular a chairman and there was a few guys in the Fifty Club tried to force him out by spreading rumors that gate money was being stolen by K. W. amongst other things.

Eventually the group of agitators got their wish, Waugh sold the Club and stepped down as Chairman.

Welcome Duff, Grey and Spotty Rowland and we all know what came next.

I see one of the names associated with the HoH lot was one of that original group of muck spreaders.

[marinello59]

Hmm. HOH have spent the last month or so campaigning through leaflets, cards, protests and social networking to try to convince us that STF are thieves and liars who are destroying the club from within, and they claim to have proof of this. Yet after a wee chat, they're happy to work with them to find a way forward. It's a funny sort of credibility.

I would like the club to make a statement, but in the absence of it I don't know that I'd agree that it gives HOH the upper hand. The picture I have in my mind is of a teacher giving the two naughty boys in the class 'important' chief helper jobs, like tidying up the milk cartons, or sharpening the pencils.

I agree. It is a funny sort of credibility and not deserved in my opinion. But there will be plenty now willing to believe them. I guess I am just frustrated that the club didn't come out fighting the smears.

[The Green Goblin]

I agree. It is a funny sort of credibility and not deserved in my opinion. But there will be plenty now willing to believe them. I guess I am just frustrated that the club didn't come out fighting the smears.

Do you really think a lot of people would just believe them? (Genuine question btw)

I think if the club came out and fought the smears, the hacks would smell blood and start sniffing around and making trouble. Before you know it there would be escalating tit for tat exchanges in the press, fueled by journos looking for a "story" of discord at "beleagured" and "troubled" Hibs.

Effectively killing it stone dead in a private meeting was probably the wisest thing to do. The fandans making stuff up get to feel like billy big baws for an hour or two and the club, out of the public eye, disprove their claims or fire their warning shot across the bow or whatever.

[HFC 0-7]

I agree. It is a funny sort of credibility and not deserved in my opinion. But there will be plenty now willing to believe them. I guess I am just frustrated that the club didn't come out fighting the smears.

This is where I am with it, I would have expected the club to have met with them put them in their place and issued a statement to that effect. It seems very strange to me that they club have met with these people who have made hefty claims and all that has come out of it is a message from HOH that they are working together. If this was a company I owner, I wouldnt be working with anyone that had made up lies and I would have put a statement out to all my customers to this effect.

[HappyAsHellas]

The HoH business and the smearing of STF brings back memories of what happened in the 1980's.

Back then Kenny Waugh was'nt too popular a chairman and there was a few guys in the Fifty Club tried to force him out by spreading rumors that gate money was being stolen by K. W. amongst other things.

Eventually the group of agitators got their wish, Waugh sold the Club and stepped down as Chairman.

Welcome Duff, Grey and Spotty Rowland and we all know what came next.

I see one of the names associated with the HoH lot was one of that original group of muck spreaders.

Given that's the case, it'll be interesting at the next home game to see if they come out with more unsubstantiated lies or tow the line a bit. I don't understand where all their "support" comes from, as I had a look at their facebook page and about 95% of the posts are from themselves. Maybe their followers are like the letter delivery kids and can't write yet?

[southern hibby]

Downfall!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He holds all the aces-fancy a game of poker?

2 questions. First are there any females playing?
Second. Is it strip poker?

GGTTH

[Beefster]

Didn't HoH previously criticise the sort of cosy, wee chats with the club/Board/Dempster/Rodders that they've just taken part in?

[RIP]

The issue I have with HoH (aside from spreading what appear to be completely malicious and unfounded lies) is that their two goals (stadium and club staying together, community ownership) seem a bit redundant. Has there been any suggestion anywhere post-Straiton that Easter Road is in line to be separated from the Club? Is this even an issue? I'm sure the vast majority of the support would acknowledge that both points are worth fighting for, but there is no suggestion that either item is ever likely to become an issue.


If you look at the Dunfermline and Motherwell models of ownership then I think, stress think, you'll find football club and ground/assets have been separated. IIRC this has been done to strengthen the business model and very much more difficult for any single person/consortium to take over. Add in the Community Interest Status and I think that makes the set up pretty carpet bagger proof. So, aside from the allegations made, their raison d'être isn't just redundant but not in the clubs best interest.


I was at one of the Q&A nights a few weeks back (Wednesday) and at that meeting Leeann said one of the possible ways forward for Hibernian was to separate into a Propco / Opco setup. I was of the opinion this was seperating the footballing operation from the properties and assumed this was the concern of HOH.

So was I. So were Bradley Welsh and I think also Jim Slaven. Could it be that they heard if first at that meeting?

[JimBHibees]

This is where I am with it, I would have expected the club to have met with them put them in their place and issued a statement to that effect. It seems very strange to me that they club have met with these people who have made hefty claims and all that has come out of it is a message from HOH that they are working together. If this was a company I owner, I wouldnt be working with anyone that had made up lies and I would have put a statement out to all my customers to this effect.

Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.

[silverhibee]

Own Goal.

[Canongatehibs]

Saw nice HoH sign planted up Cameron Toll junction last night.

Well done :thumbsup:

[jacomo]

I was at one of the Q&A nights a few weeks back (Wednesday) and at that meeting Leeann said one of the possible ways forward for Hibernian was to separate into a Propco / Opco setup. I was of the opinion this was seperating the footballing operation from the properties and assumed this was the concern of HOH.

This would be of concern to all of us, if true. Separating ownership of club and stadium usually leads to all sorts of trouble - and it's normally only clubs in financial distress that consider it in the first place.

[Andy74]

This would be of concern to all of us, if true. Separating ownership of club and stadium usually leads to all sorts of trouble - and it's normally only clubs in financial distress that consider it in the first place.

Not really, it was suggested that it would be done, if at all, in such a way that a trust or membership would own over 50% of the stadium and it would ensure that the asset could never be sold on unless agreed by the fans/members.

It was on the table to assess whether it was wanted/palatable.

[jacomo]

Not really, it was suggested that it would be done, if at all, in such a way that a trust or membership would own over 50% of the stadium and it would ensure that the asset could never be sold on unless agreed by the fans/members.

It was on the table to assess whether it was wanted/palatable.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm still sceptical though - what's in it for the minority stake owners? Is there an example of this working successfully elsewhere?

[Crazyhorse]

Not really, it was suggested that it would be done, if at all, in such a way that a trust or membership would own over 50% of the stadium and it would ensure that the asset could never be sold on unless agreed by the fans/members.

It was on the table to assess whether it was wanted/palatable.

Why couldn't they just own over 50% of the whole club?

[Crazyhorse]

The HoH business and the smearing of STF brings back memories of what happened in the 1980's.

Back then Kenny Waugh was'nt too popular a chairman and there was a few guys in the Fifty Club tried to force him out by spreading rumors that gate money was being stolen by K. W. amongst other things.

Eventually the group of agitators got their wish, Waugh sold the Club and stepped down as Chairman.

Welcome Duff, Grey and Spotty Rowland and we all know what came next.

I see one of the names associated with the HoH lot was one of that original group of muck spreaders.

I can't really follow the point you are trying to make GG.

Are you saying Duff, Grey and Rowland will come back if Farmer leaves?

Are you arguing that we hold on to nurse for fear of something worse?


Here's a Hibsnet FACT - STF is old he's not going to be around much longer. Things are going to change soon whether you like it or not.

[Andy74]

Why couldn't they just own over 50% of the whole club?

If they couldn't afford it?

[bighairyfaeleith]

I'm very sorry but speaking personally I refuse to take anything that HoH says at face value.


I can't really follow the point you are trying to make GG.

Are you saying Duff, Grey and Rowland will come back if Farmer leaves?

Are you arguing that we hold on to nurse for fear of something worse?


Here's a Hibsnet FACT - STF is old he's not going to be around much longer. Things are going to change soon whether you like it or not.
His point is pretty plain to see

[greenginger]

I can't really follow the point you are trying to make GG.

Are you saying Duff, Grey and Rowland will come back if Farmer leaves?

Are you arguing that we hold on to nurse for fear of something worse?


Here's a Hibsnet FACT - STF is old he's not going to be around much longer. Things are going to change soon whether you like it or not.

Not trying to make any particular point, merely recalling a previous period of fan agitation and pointing out that one name amongst today's group has been at it before.

Oh, and maybe a forced sale does not produce the best outcome.

[Leithenhibby]

I can't really follow the point you are trying to make GG.

Are you saying Duff, Grey and Rowland will come back if Farmer leaves?

Are you arguing that we hold on to nurse for fear of something worse?


Here's a Hibsnet FACT - STF is old he's not going to be around much longer. Things are going to change soon whether you like it or not.

Do you know something we don't :wink:

I'm sure his lawyers will have it all in hand and it may not be such a happy ending...........

[greenginger]

This would be of concern to all of us, if true. Separating ownership of club and stadium usually leads to all sorts of trouble - and it's normally only clubs in financial distress that consider it in the first place.

It would only be a concern if the assets fell under the control of persons or companies that did not have Hibs interests as the over-riding aim.

Pass the stadium and training centre on to a not-for-profit trust and let the football side of the business lease it any pay the expenses and upkeep.

Better than allowing some unknowns use the Club assets as security whilst they " speculate to accumulate " or whatever the latest buzzwords are .

[Hibeesforever]

It would only be a concern if the assets fell under the control of persons or companies that did not have Hibs interests as the over-riding aim.

Pass the stadium and training centre on to a not-for-profit trust and let the football side of the business lease it any pay the expenses and upkeep.

Better than allowing some unknowns use the Club assets as security whilst they " speculate to accumulate " or whatever the latest buzzwords are .

The "club" is everything together; to split up interlinked assets in my view would be a recipe for difficult governance issues further down the line. Hibernian F.C. need finance first and community ownership second. STF and the board should be canvassing for a big ticket investor or "Investors". E.G. The George Best suite should be re-opened at the Balmoral and the fans encouraged to flock back to Easter Road. Edinburgh is a financial glamorous city and should have such an owner. The apathy should be replaced with excitement and Alan Subbs given serious spending money.

[Andy74]

The "club" is everything together; to split up interlinked assets in my view would be a recipe for difficult governance issues further down the line. Hibernian F.C. need finance first and community ownership second. STF and the board should be canvassing for a big ticket investor or "Investors". E.G. The George Best suite should be re-opened at the Balmoral and the fans encouraged to flock back to Easter Road. Edinburgh is a financial glamorous city and should have such an owner. The apathy should be replaced with excitement and Alan Subbs given serious spending money.

I don't think we need external finance in that way, we need to sustainably grow our income by increasing our fan base, tickets, merchandising etc and hopefully by bringing through and eventually seling on more good players.

I just don't see any benefits in any type of change of ownership unless it is being forced.

Changes in the way the club is run and promoted day to day, yes, but that's a different thing.

What would big ticket investment mean for Hibs? If you are looking to challenge Celtic to begin with then their wage budget alone is what, north of £25m per year every year? So you'd be looking at someone chucking in at least £15m every single year for a long time. Not going to happen.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I can't really follow the point you are trying to make GG.

Are you saying Duff, Grey and Rowland will come back if Farmer leaves?

Are you arguing that we hold on to nurse for fear of something worse?


Here's a Hibsnet FACT - STF is old he's not going to be around much longer. Things are going to change soon whether you like it or not.

Classy.

[silverhibee]

Classy.

But true, STF is now 74 and is getting on a bit now, how much longer will he want to be the owner of Hibs, at his age he must be thinking it is time for him to enjoy the rest of his life with his wife and family and not have the hassle he is having now of being the owner of Hibs.

[Betty Boop]

But true, STF is now 74 and is getting on a bit now, how much longer will he want to be the owner of Hibs, at his age he must be thinking it is time for him to enjoy the rest of his life with his wife and family and not have the hassle he is having now of being the owner of Hibs.

70s are the new 40s.

[jdships]

But true, STF is now 74 and is getting on a bit now, how much longer will he want to be the owner of Hibs, at his age he must be thinking it is time for him to enjoy the rest of his life with his wife and family and not have the hassle he is having now of being the owner of Hibs.

Interesting post !!!
I am in my 83rd year and there are four of us , all in our eighties, who attend ER when finances/health allow
W e are all agreed that the one thing we dislike more than anything is being " advised" , because of our age , that we should " withdraw from public life " :rolleyes:
I have known STF for over 40 years and can assure you the man will walk away when and ONLY when HE is ready and not before !!!

Hopefully you will reach your " three score years and ten" and will be fit/healthy enough to enjoy your life without having the hassle of being told when to "retire" :greengrin:wink:

[Elephant Stone]

Interesting post !!!
I am in my 83rd year and there are four of us , all in our eighties, who attend ER when finances/health allow
W e are all agreed that the one thing we dislike more than anything is being " advised" , because of our age , that we should " withdraw from public life " :rolleyes:
I have known STF for over 40 years and can assure you the man will walk away when and ONLY when HE is ready and not before !!!

Hopefully you will reach your " three score years and ten" and will be fit/healthy enough to enjoy your life without having the hassle of being told when to "retire" :greengrin:wink:

:thumbsup:

[blackpoolhibs]

Interesting post !!!
I am in my 83rd year and there are four of us , all in our eighties, who attend ER when finances/health allow
W e are all agreed that the one thing we dislike more than anything is being " advised" , because of our age , that we should " withdraw from public life " :rolleyes:
I have known STF for over 40 years and can assure you the man will walk away when and ONLY when HE is ready and not before !!!

Hopefully you will reach your " three score years and ten" and will be fit/healthy enough to enjoy your life without having the hassle of being told when to "retire" :greengrin:wink:

Its interesting that you start the post with saying its an interesting post. Perhaps if STF took more of an interest in the football club, we'd not be in this current mess?

I'm not really bothered how old he is, just how well he's running the club. And as we are currently playing our football in the championship once again under his ownership, its no surprise people like myself would prefer it if he left the club sooner rather than later.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Its interesting that you start the post with saying its an interesting post. Perhaps if STF took more of an interest in the football club, we'd not be in this current mess?

I'm not really bothered how old he is, just how well he's running the club. And as we are currently playing our football in the championship once again under his ownership, its no surprise people like myself would prefer it if he left the club sooner rather than later.

:applause:

[jdships]

Its interesting that you start the post with saying its an interesting post. Perhaps if STF took more of an interest in the football club, we'd not be in this current mess?

I'm not really bothered how old he is, just how well he's running the club. And as we are currently playing our football in the championship once again under his ownership, its no surprise people like myself would prefer it if he left the club sooner rather than later.

It was an interesting post as when you get on a bit in terms of age people are always ready to criticise the fact that we are still involved in every day life and have something to offer . That is my beef .
If you took the time to meet STF and speak with him you would find a different man to the one you describe !!
As I said before I trust you will achieve your " three score years and ten" and do not have the hassle of being advised to " leave the building "

[blackpoolhibs]

It was an interesting post as when you get on a bit in terms of age people are always ready to criticise the fact that we are still involved in every day life and have something to offer . That is my beef .
If you took the time to meet STF and speak with him you would find a different man to the one you describe !!
As I said before I trust you will achieve your " three score years and ten" and do not have the hassle of being advised to " leave the building "

:agree: I understood that JD, but as much as you know the man and most of us can only go on whats happening and happened, and under his ownership the club he saved for the community has twice been relegated. I dont expect Hibs to be relegated under any owner.

[The Falcon]

We used to have the Theodore Roosevelt quote on wall that began

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,......." etc

[southsider]

H on H may have a point about the football club and the parent company. I have today, as a shareholder, written to our club asking for the following information. 1) What was the total cost of redeveloping ER stadium. 2) What amount have we repaid to date and what was the interest charged on these loans ? Did the sale of players from our so called Golden Generation ( Scott B, KT, Whitty, Fletch etc ) pay for East Mains and is there still capital/interest payments due on this ?If anyone on here knows the answers to my questions it will save me the cost of a stamp.

[CropleyWasGod]

H on H may have a point about the football club and the parent company. I have today, as a shareholder, written to our club asking for the following information. 1) What was the total cost of redeveloping ER stadium. 2) What amount have we repaid to date and what was the interest charged on these loans ? Did the sale of players from our so called Golden Generation ( Scott B, KT, Whitty, Fletch etc ) pay for East Mains and is there still capital/interest payments due on this ?If anyone on here knows the answers to my questions it will save me the cost of a stamp.
That information is in the accounts.

What point is it that you think HoH have ?

[Barney McGrew]

H on H may have a point about the football club and the parent company. I have today, as a shareholder, written to our club asking for the following information. 1) What was the total cost of redeveloping ER stadium. 2) What amount have we repaid to date and what was the interest charged on these loans ? Did the sale of players from our so called Golden Generation ( Scott B, KT, Whitty, Fletch etc ) pay for East Mains and is there still capital/interest payments due on this ?If anyone on here knows the answers to my questions it will save me the cost of a stamp.

As a shareholder you'll surely have all that information in the accounts you'll have been sent each year :confused:

[marinello59]

H on H may have a point about the football club and the parent company. I have today, as a shareholder, written to our club asking for the following information. 1) What was the total cost of redeveloping ER stadium. 2) What amount have we repaid to date and what was the interest charged on these loans ? Did the sale of players from our so called Golden Generation ( Scott B, KT, Whitty, Fletch etc ) pay for East Mains and is there still capital/interest payments due on this ?If anyone on here knows the answers to my questions it will save me the cost of a stamp.

What point? Have they actually made one now?

[southsider]

Thanks for your reply but it is not easy for people who do not come from a financial background to grasp. For example the FF and West stands were built at a cost of £6.5m. £2.5 m at a fixed rate of 7% over 20 years. With interest rates now at 0.5% has this not been regegotiated ?If not why not ? The further £4m was to be repaid in 10 years at a variable rate. What rate ? Do you see my point ?

[Kaiser1962]

Thanks for your reply but it is not easy for people who do not come from a financial background to grasp. For example the FF and West stands were built at a cost of £6.5m. £2.5 m at a fixed rate of 7% over 20 years. With interest rates now at 0.5% has this not been regegotiated ?If not why not ? The further £4m was to be repaid in 10 years at a variable rate. What rate ? Do you see my point ?

The FF was not built by the Football Club.

[Caversham Green]

Thanks for your reply but it is not easy for people who do not come from a financial background to grasp. For example the FF and West stands were built at a cost of £6.5m. £2.5 m at a fixed rate of 7% over 20 years. With interest rates now at 0.5% has this not been regegotiated ?If not why not ? The further £4m was to be repaid in 10 years at a variable rate. What rate ? Do you see my point ?

From the last set of accounts, interest paid to the holding company was £5,033 on a loan of £250,000 - that's a rate of 2%. A further £1,500,000 was advanced interest free and the total amount paid to the holding company including rent was £29,033. No other rent was paid to anyone.

All other interest was paid to the bank. In round figures this was £132,000 on loans of around £7m, which is a rate of about 2%. That is a substantially lower rate than any other club I've looked at, presumably because the loans are covered by a personal guarantee rather than a security on land.

As Kaiser 1962 says the FF (and the South Stand) was built by the holding company before the whole ground was sold back to the club at a cash loss. No further loans were raised for East Mains, but a further £1.5m was taken on to help finance the £3.8m cost on the new East Stand.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Thanks for your reply but it is not easy for people who do not come from a financial background to grasp. For example the FF and West stands were built at a cost of £6.5m. £2.5 m at a fixed rate of 7% over 20 years. With interest rates now at 0.5% has this not been regegotiated ?If not why not ? The further £4m was to be repaid in 10 years at a variable rate. What rate ? Do you see my point ?

I don't see the point in such people asking questions when they admit they won't understand the answers. If that was part of the point you are making.

My point is that people who don't understand finance are wanting to be involved in making financial decisions. I'm a great believer in everybody playing to their strengths instead of wasting effort trying to do other people's jobs.

Week by week a picture is emerging of well meaning amateurs putting the clubs future at risk. It's like a car crash where, rather than wait for the emergency services, people dive in and cause greater harm.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[southsider]

Thanks CG, your answer makes things a lot clearer. I just wanted to find out if our football club were throwing my money (ST holder since you could buy them for the terracing) away in high interest charges.

[The Falcon]

From the last set of accounts, interest paid to the holding company was £5,033 on a loan of £250,000 - that's a rate of 2%. A further £1,500,000 was advanced interest free and the total amount paid to the holding company including rent was £29,033. No other rent was paid to anyone.


Do we know where this £1.5m came from? I assume it was technically via the holding company but ultimately came from STF? I accept that this might be wrong though.

[Peevemor]

Do we know where this £1.5m came from? I assume it was technically via the holding company but ultimately came from STF? I accept that this might be wrong though.

Given that the holding company is 90% STF, it's safe to say that it has come from him. Whether it's ultimately from his pocket or a bank loan is a different story - it should be remembered it can sometimes be cheaper to use the bank's money than your own, especially if you you don't really need to borrow it (ie. you have the dosh elsewhere if necessary).

[JimBHibees]

We used to have the Theodore Roosevelt quote on wall that began

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,......." etc

Fantastic quote that is. First time I have seen it. Full version is here.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

[jacomo]

Fantastic quote that is. First time I have seen it. Full version is here.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Great quote. It's easy to criticise from a distance, but very hard to run a Scottish football club. STF has made mistakes, but unless there is evidence to the contrary I still believe he has the best interests of the club at heart.

[Cropley10]

Thanks for your reply but it is not easy for people who do not come from a financial background to grasp. For example the FF and West stands were built at a cost of £6.5m. £2.5 m at a fixed rate of 7% over 20 years. With interest rates now at 0.5% has this not been regegotiated ?If not why not ? The further £4m was to be repaid in 10 years at a variable rate. What rate ? Do you see my point ?

Bank of England Base Rate is 0.5%, do you know what the cheapest you can borrow money at for a fixed term of 5, 10 or 20 years is today? Easy to think that a re-negotiation is easy.

Btw if this part is right STF wanted to be paid 7% of £2.5 m over 20 years, so £175,000, or about £8,750 per annum. If it's a balloon payment of 7%, then his £175,000 in year 20, would be worth considerably less than it was when he loaned the money, of course.

[greenlex]

Fantastic quote that is. First time I have seen it. Full version is here.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Thus indeed a great quote.

[The Green Goblin]

Fantastic quote that is. First time I have seen it. Full version is here.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

That's great, and applicable to many different situations.

[jacomo]

I've said before that I don't think anyone will know how much STF has put into the club or taken out of it until such time as he sells up. Until then, it's all speculation.

It could be that he sells for a high price and makes an overall profit - why not, it's what most people who risk their own money want.

More likely is that he won't be able to sell at a profit and might carry a big loss.

I am convinced that STF did not buy Hibs to enrich himself - plenty of easier ways to do that, in sectors that he understands better.

[schinkenotto]

I've said before that I don't think anyone will know how much STF has put into the club or taken out of it until such time as he sells up. Until then, it's all speculation.

It could be that he sells for a high price and makes an overall profit - why not, it's what most people who risk their own money want.

More likely is that he won't be able to sell at a profit and might carry a big loss.

I am convinced that STF did not buy Hibs to enrich himself - plenty of easier ways to do that, in sectors that he understands better.

I am in no doubt that if STF sells,he will do so at "a big loss".From my personal experience of the man,he is a major contributor to and patron of several charities and genuinely interested in social betterment. Whatever people think of his stewardship of the club(and things are in a pretty bad way at the moment),he is certainly not in it for the money and to suggest that he has been "milking" the club says more about his accusers than the man himself.

[blackpoolhibs]

I dont think STF is in it to make ANY money out of Hibs, but he's not a man who is at the coal face running the shift. He's an absent owner who put someone in to run the place for him, and thats not been working for a long while.

[EastCalderHibby]

I am in no doubt that if STF sells,he will do so at "a big loss".From my personal experience of the man,he is a major contributor to and patron of several charities and genuinely interested in social betterment. Whatever people think of his stewardship of the club(and things are in a pretty bad way at the moment),he is certainly not in it for the money and to suggest that he has been "milking" the club says more about his accusers than the man himself.

:top marks

[Andy74]

I dont think STF is in it to make ANY money out of Hibs, but he's not a man who is at the coal face running the shift. He's an absent owner who put someone in to run the place for him, and thats not been working for a long while.

Most companies are owned by shareholders that don't actually run the company day to day.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Most companies are owned by shareholders that don't actually run the company day to day.

True, but they would probably ask some very difficult questions of a chairman and chief exec who put in place a strategy that was leading to decline in all of the key areas of the business, over a medium term period.

[grunt]

This maybe needs a new thread

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hibernian-fans-to-launch-community-ownership-bid-1-3600325


AN umbrella body of Hibernian supporters are to launch a bid on Tuesday to take the club back into community ownership.

The campaign group, which has the backing of the Hibernian Former Players’ Association, the Supporters’ Association and Supporters Direct Scotland (SDS) among other organisations, will invite current owner Sir Tom Farmer to enter negotiations to sell to them as a single package the club itself, Easter Road, and the training centre at East Mains outside Tranent.

Former Hibs captain Pat Stanton will head the campaign and be present at the launch, where organisers will reveal the name of the group. They plan to fund a takeover in the same way as the Foundation of Hearts did at Tynecastle, with individual fans pledging a monthly amount and one or more business people committing a lump sum.

Farmer and Hibs chairman Rod Petrie have appeared unwilling to negotiate with recent potential buyers, but a spokesperson for the new group said they hoped for constructive talks, with the aim on both sides of securing the long-term future of the club.

“We want to buy all the assets together - the club, ground and training ground,” the spokesperson said. “We will ask Tom Farmer to name his price and tell us what he wants for the three assets. “We’re offering a positive exit for him, one that allows him to give the club back to the community, and to leave the club on a positive note. “This is about uniting the Hibs support to get one group driving positive change. We plan to raise the money via a mixture of individual subscriptions, with fans pledging a monthly sum, and funds from Hibs-supporting business people.”

The new group, which has been working on its plans for several months, concluded from a survey conducted with SDS that there was a willingness among the Hibs support to try to take the club back.
More than 4,000 people replied to the survey, with a sizeable majority supporting more talks on community ownership.

The group hopes that they will get backing from Hibs fans on a scale that allows them to say the community is behind them. They will also be keen to remind Farmer that when he took over the club nearly 25 years ago he said he had done so for the community.

“It’s common knowledge that Hibs’ current owners have had discussions with some potential purchasers of the club, and that in every single case they’ve said it’s not about money,” the spokesperson continued.
“Well, if it’s not about money, put the club into community ownership and walk away. “What we’ll say to Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie is: ‘We’ve got a structure here. We’ve got everything set up. You keep saying to people who have put in bids for the club or been interested in doing so that they’re not the right people. Other than Hibs supporters, who are the right people?’ “We don’t know how much they want for the club. But if it’s not about money ... So we’re saying to them either give us a price and work with us, or come out with plausible, proper, fresh plans for investment. “We’re going to ask people to pledge now, but we won’t take any money from them until we have a deal. It will be very much like what the Foundation of Hearts did. “I’d be keen to sit down with [Hearts owner] Ann Budge to discuss our plans. In fact, at the last Edinburgh derby one of my colleagues had a short discussion with her, and she seems quite keen to help. I’m sure there are things we can learn from her. “I would urge all Hibs fans to work with us and get together. We’re more than happy to work together with anyone for the benefit of the club. “There have been previous attempts get the club back into community ownership, and in many ways this is the last throw of the dice for us. We either do it this time - or we walk away and leave Hibernian at the mercy of the current owners. “This will be a positive campaign. The owners have a goal, and it must be to get out. We have a goal to get the club sold to the right people. “That goal is surely the same. If we work together, we’ll surely achieve it far more quickly and easily.”