Scottish Parliamentary Elections....

[steakbake]

Aye right!

As if everyone tells a canvasser the truth!!:faf::faf::faf:

...plus postal votes. It's literally in the bag.

[lucky]

There was 2 polls carried out at the weekend. Strange (not) that you choose to highlight the poll that shows a slight swing to Labour.

By the way, what has canvas (cover for tents) and cages (!!!) got to do with using canvassing returns to gauge support???

Sorry if my posts from my phone annoy you when it does not always convey what I'm typing in the correct manner. But do you not think you are being a bit petty or is it that you just so anti-Labour that you try to attack anything. As for choosing to post a poll that shows a swing to Labour, what do you expect? I actually posted it after reading it but you just as free to post an alternative poll if you like or are you to busy playing at being a English teacher?

[lucky]

Aye right!

As if everyone tells a canvasser the truth!!:faf::faf::faf:

Previous elections tell us how good our canvass returns are. Of course people lie and some others change their minds on day. But generally I have found that a good canvass involving several thousand people is a very good indicator. As others have said they have never been asked so it is not totally exact. But in my CLP we have identified 8000 strong Labour supporters and our key to success is getting them out to vote.

[lucky]

I see (he says, backtracking quickly) :greengrin

Is the constituency the same for Scottish and Westminster Elections? Pretty sure Livingston is a safe Labour seat in the UK parliament.

Dave its not the same boundaries. In the last general election Labour won with a 12000 majority. The nats won it in the Scottish election last time round.

[lucky]

Not sure about historically but was won by Labour in the 2010 UK General Election.

18,000 doors in Livingston is a lot. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that's at least 90% of the properties - unless of course they knocked on the front and back doors, but that doesn't work for flats.

The Almond Vally constituency is not just Livingston. It runs form East Calder through to the Breich Valley. The new town itself has around 56000 inhabitants

[lucky]

Certainly havent knocked on my door only person was an SNP person.

Jim unsure where you live but we have been out and about since October last year. If you live in Ladywell, Craigshill or Eilburn its unlikely we will have knocked on your door as these areas in previous elections have had a strong nat vote. This is worked out at the count where party members see where each ballot box comes from and samples the returns. It lets all parties know their good and bad areas and where put resources at the next election.

Anyway i have answered enough questions and digs I'm off to knock on some doors in dedrirdge. Mon team Labour :greengrin

[ancienthibby]

Previous elections tell us how good our canvass returns are. Of course people lie and some others change their minds on day. But generally I have found that a good canvass involving several thousand people is a very good indicator. As others have said they have never been asked so it is not totally exact. But in my CLP we have identified 8000 strong Labour supporters and our key to success is getting them out to vote.

So, 8/18 at the very best shows that you are deep in brown stuff already!! (in a safe seat:faf:)

Where will the weegreychickencarcrash get a job after 05 May?

[marinello59]

So, 8/18 at the very best shows that you are deep in brown stuff already!! (in a safe seat:faf:)

Where will the weegreychickencarcrash get a job after 05 May?

No matter how many times you type it in it's still not funny.

[ancienthibby]

No matter how many times you type it in it's still not funny.

May not work for you, but it is still hilarious beyond words that some people think that Iain Gray could ever, ever be the First Minister of our country!! Utterly beyond belief!!

[One Day Soon]

No matter how many times you type it in it's still not funny.

In his head it is.

[Part/Time Supporter]

No matter how many times you type it in it's still not funny.

Fair enough, but Iain "Subway" Gray is.

:wink:

[hibsbollah]

No matter how many times you type it in it's still not funny.

Ancient should have one for salmond, in the interests of fairness. baldingjowlysmugsweatyclammy has a nice ring to it.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I think this might be another "rogue" poll.

http://news.stv.tv/election-2011/246676-snp-on-course-for-major-victory-according-to-stv-poll/

The Labour ratings are ridiculously low. Also, congratulations to the pollster on finding some Lib Dem voters.

:faf:

[ancienthibby]

Ancient should have one for salmond, in the interests of fairness. ]baldingjowlysmugsweatyclammy has a nice ring to it[/B].

Fair enough, but this is not about me!!:greengrin

[One Day Soon]

Ancient should have one for salmond, in the interests of fairness. baldingjowlysmugsweatyclammy has a nice ring to it.

I thought he had inherited the Wallace Mercer one?

[hibsbollah]

I think the potentially most intetesting yet underreported scenario is Michael Stipe (sorry, patrick harvie) playing the role of kingmaker for the Greens. Those nine or ten regional list seats could hold the balance of power.

[One Day Soon]

I think this might be another "rogue" poll.

http://news.stv.tv/election-2011/246676-snp-on-course-for-major-victory-according-to-stv-poll/

The Labour ratings are ridiculously low. Also, congratulations to the pollster on finding some Lib Dem voters.

:faf:

Party political time out:

If that poll is correct - and I would guess it will be in the result though probably not in the margin - then we will likely see an SNP/Green coalition. That being the case where is Scotland's electricity baseload going to come from if/when the nuclear power stations are closed and not replaced?

[steakbake]

Party political time out:

If that poll is correct - and I would guess it will be in the result though probably not in the margin - then we will likely see an SNP/Green coalition. That being the case where is Scotland's electricity baseload going to come from if/when the nuclear power stations are closed and not replaced?

That was my first question, too.

Well, as ever in any political situation regardless of whoever is in power, something will get sorted out. Some deal will be thrashed out which isn't exactly what both sides want but will ensure, for the medium term at least, that we'll all be able to switch our plugs on at home, secure in the knowledge that the electricity supply - despite the SNP being at the helm - hasn't been shut off entirely.

[lucky]

Great poll for the nats but just under 50% undecided its still all to play for.

But choice is clear separation or jobs ----Scotland must decide

[sKipper]

Great poll for the nats but just under 50% undecided its still all to play for.

But choice is clear separation or jobs ----Scotland must decide

Nope. The choice is Salmond, Swinney and Sturgeon or the hopelessly inept and backward looking Gray, Baillie and Kerr.

[lucky]

Wee eck was poor tonight especially over the NHS which the benefit cheat defender sturgeon was supposedly looking after. John Swinney was so poor the nats dumped him.

[sKipper]

Wee eck was poor tonight especially over the NHS which the benefit cheat defender sturgeon was supposedly looking after. John Swinney was so poor the nats dumped him.

Your quotes re Sturgeon and Swiinney are nonsense.

As for Salmond he was quite subdued, though not poor. Gray was a laughing stock. Couldn't belive he started shouting at the woman. If he gets asked a question he hasn't memorised the answer to he struggles, just cannot think on his feet.

The thought of him being First Minister of Scotland is truly terrifying.

[lucky]

Your quotes re Sturgeon and Swiinney are nonsense.

As for Salmond he was quite subdued, though not poor. Gray was a laughing stock. Couldn't belive he started shouting at the woman. If he gets asked a question he hasn't memorised the answer to he struggles, just cannot think on his feet.

The thought of him being First Minister of Scotland is truly terrifying.

how are they nonsense? They are true! Strugeon tried to get a benefit cheat off. The nats dumped swinney. Ian Gray did very well, the nats in the audience tried to bate him but just embarrassed themselves

[The Harp Awakes]

Newsnight Scotland tonight interviewed the the big 4 party's campaign managers on their focus for the remaining hours before the election.

Much of it was pretty uninspiring and none performed that well IMO. However, what I found revealing was that when each of the 4 were asked by Gordon Brewer to highlight the negatives in the others campaigns, the SNP's campaign manager refused to criticise the other parties and focused only on the SNPs agenda for Scotland even when pressed. The other 3 candidates took the opportunity to criticise the others and let rip.

I've also noticed that Salmond has repeatedly refused to criticise Iain Gray when asked loaded questions by interviewers during the campaign.

I think the SNP deserve credit for their positivity during this campaign and hopefully this is a new kind of politics which will be practiced by all parties in future elections.

[cabbageandribs1875]

well said henry McLeish :aok:

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/holyroodelection2011/3560606/Ex-Labour-chief-Henry-turns-on-floundering-Gray.html

"The SNP have reduced crime to a 32-year low, delivered 1,000 more police on the streets, and have plans to tackle the booze culture.

"That is why it is vital that the SNP Government is re-elected on Thursday."

Labour grandee Mr McLeish slammed Mr Gray and his colleagues for stubbornly blocking the SNP Government's minimum pricing policy during the last parliament.

:aok:

[cabbageandribs1875]

Newsnight Scotland tonight interviewed the the big 4 party's campaign managers on their focus for the remaining hours before the election.

Much of it was pretty uninspiring and none performed that well IMO. However, what I found revealing was that when each of the 4 were asked by Gordon Brewer to highlight the negatives in the others campaigns, the SNP's campaign manager refused to criticise the other parties and focused only on the SNPs agenda for Scotland even when pressed. The other 3 candidates took the opportunity to criticise the others and let rip.

I've also noticed that Salmond has repeatedly refused to criticise Iain Gray when asked loaded questions by interviewers during the campaign.

I think the SNP deserve credit for their positivity during this campaign and hopefully this is a new kind of politics which will be practiced by all parties in future elections.


labour have spent a massive amount of time and energy consistently rubbishing SNP policies, does anyone actually know wtf labours manifesto is ?? i imagine it's full of anti-SNP tripe :agree:

[MountcastleHibs]

Newsnight Scotland tonight interviewed the the big 4 party's campaign managers on their focus for the remaining hours before the election.

Much of it was pretty uninspiring and none performed that well IMO. However, what I found revealing was that when each of the 4 were asked by Gordon Brewer to highlight the negatives in the others campaigns, the SNP's campaign manager refused to criticise the other parties and focused only on the SNPs agenda for Scotland even when pressed. The other 3 candidates took the opportunity to criticise the others and let rip.

I've also noticed that Salmond has repeatedly refused to criticise Iain Gray when asked loaded questions by interviewers during the campaign.

I think the SNP deserve credit for their positivity during this campaign and hopefully this is a new kind of politics which will be practiced by all parties in future elections.

It's something the party has done all through this election. Even despite the tactics of Labour here in Kenny MacAskill's seat of constantly ripping into the SNP, the local branch have refused to retaliate. I've been taking several leaflets and letters from Labour that have come through the door into the branch, and the members have been interested to see what Labour have been putting out, but refusing to respond and drop to their level.

For leading a positive campaign, regardless of what happens on Thursday, I'm proud to be a member of the SNP.

[Beefster]

Great poll for the nats but just under 50% undecided its still all to play for.

But choice is clear separation or jobs ----Scotland must decide

Political parties can only concentrate / achieve one thing? I assume New Labour only cared about Iraq during their second term to the complete detriment of every other policy?

I'm all for debate but let's leave the trite electioneering slogans to the politicians.

[lucky]

Political parties can only concentrate / achieve one thing? I assume New Labour only cared about Iraq during their second term to the complete detriment of every other policy?

I'm all for debate but let's leave the trite electioneering slogans to the politicians.

Fair point but the fact is the Scotland is edging closer to separation if the Nats/Greens get over 65 seats.

[lucky]

It's something the party has done all through this election. Even despite the tactics of Labour here in Kenny MacAskill's seat of constantly ripping into the SNP, the local branch have refused to retaliate. I've been taking several leaflets and letters from Labour that have come through the door into the branch, and the members have been interested to see what Labour have been putting out, but refusing to respond and drop to their level.

For leading a positive campaign, regardless of what happens on Thursday, I'm proud to be a member of the SNP.

Interesting post, I may be misreading it, but surely the rest of your activists must be getting Labour leaflets through their own door? or are they from outside the constituency? or you are removing leaflets from the doors of other people? If either is true I would say that Edinburgh East is very close or the squeaky clean campaign you claim that the nats is running is not so clean.

[lucky]

well said henry McLeish :aok:

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/holyroodelection2011/3560606/Ex-Labour-chief-Henry-turns-on-floundering-Gray.html

"The SNP have reduced crime to a 32-year low, delivered 1,000 more police on the streets, and have plans to tackle the booze culture.
[B]"That is why it is vital that the SNP Government is re-elected on Thursday."
Labour grandee Mr McLeish slammed Mr Gray and his colleagues for stubbornly blocking the SNP Government's minimum pricing policy during the last parliament.

:aok:

Thats a nats spokesman who is quoted at the end of the article. McLeish is NOT quoted in the article.

[marinello59]

It's something the party has done all through this election. Even despite the tactics of Labour here in Kenny MacAskill's seat of constantly ripping into the SNP, the local branch have refused to retaliate. I've been taking several leaflets and letters from Labour that have come through the door into the branch, and the members have been interested to see what Labour have been putting out, but refusing to respond and drop to their level.

For leading a positive campaign, regardless of what happens on Thursday, I'm proud to be a member of the SNP.

That's a major turnaround for them if they are that clean then. I will most probably vote SNP this time around but it's taken me a long time to see past the disgusting activities of some of their lunatic fringe in the North East of Scotland in past elections.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Fair point but the fact is the Scotland is edging closer to separation if the Nats/Greens get over 65 seats.

no, Scotland is edging closer to getting the chance to vote for separation. Your scaremongering again.

[khib70]

Fair point but the fact is the Scotland is edging closer to separation if the Nats/Greens get over 65 seats.
Good. :saltireflag

[JimBHibees]

labour have spent a massive amount of time and energy consistently rubbishing SNP policies, does anyone actually know wtf labours manifesto is ?? i imagine it's full of anti-SNP tripe :agree:

And also managed to rip off freezing the council tax from SNP even though they slated it in parliament. :rolleyes:

Got to be said has there ever been a worse leader ever than Iain Gray, dear oh dear he is so far out of his depth it is embarressing.

[JimBHibees]

how are they nonsense? They are true! Strugeon tried to get a benefit cheat off. The nats dumped swinney. Ian Gray did very well, the nats in the audience tried to bate him but just embarrassed themselves

Thats a laughable comment really.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Thats a nats spokesman who is quoted at the end of the article. McLeish is NOT quoted in the article.



Mr McLeish said: "The alcohol problem must be addressed by legislating on minimum pricing. It has to be the priority."

He also praised the drop in crime since SNP chief Alex Salmond came to power four years ago.

He said: "Violent crime is falling and recorded crimes with an offensive weapon, including knife crime, are down by 30 per cent since 2006/7."

As the guy in the audience said last night, Labour disgraced their own traditions by voting against minimum pricing.

I thought Gray performed quite well at times last night, but he regularly shot himself in the foot. "Pointless conversation", dearie me. Salmond was no better than average (as on Sunday), but he didn't need to be.

[MountcastleHibs]

Interesting post, I may be misreading it, but surely the rest of your activists must be getting Labour leaflets through their own door? or are they from outside the constituency? or you are removing leaflets from the doors of other people? If either is true I would say that Edinburgh East is very close or the squeaky clean campaign you claim that the nats is running is not so clean.

They're leaflets that have been coming through my own door. Other activists have been getting them too, and some have taken them up too, to show Kenny MacAskill and his agent.

I have not removed leaflets from the doors of other people, that is just plain wrong. I don't see how me taking leaflets posted through my door means we're fighting a dirty campaign. My point was that Kenny and his agent don't want to react to the negative tactics of Scottish Labour. I think you may have misread the post or I didn't articulate it very well.

And all the activists in the Edinburgh East branch out campaigning are from within the constituency, as far as I know.

[sKipper]

They're leaflets that have been coming through my own door. Other activists have been getting them too, and some have taken them up too, to show Kenny MacAskill and his agent.

I have not removed leaflets from the doors of other people, that is just plain wrong. I don't see how me taking leaflets posted through my door means we're fighting a dirty campaign. My point was that Kenny and his agent don't want to react to the negative tactics of Scottish Labour. I think you may have misread the post or I didn't articulate it very well.

And all the activists in the Edinburgh East branch out campaigning are from within the constituency, as far as I know.

I live in one of the most marginal seats in Scotland, SNP only need a swing of less than 1% to take it, yet noone has seen or heard from a single Labour activist :confused:

They don't seem to exist in West Lothian.

[hibsbollah]

Paul Godzik and his aparatchiks were handing out flyers outside local edinburgh southern schools yesterday. I wish they could make the effort to look less creepy...i was reminded of the childcatcher in chitty chitty bang bang.

[MountcastleHibs]

I live in one of the most marginal seats in Scotland, SNP only need a swing of less than 1% to take it, yet noone has seen or heard from a single Labour activist :confused:

They don't seem to exist in West Lothian.

I know that Labour have called in people from other constituencies to help out in Edinburgh East, so maybe that's where the missing ones from West Lothian have gone. They're desperate to take this seat off of Kenny MacAskill.

[JimBHibees]

Paul Godzik and his aparatchiks were handing out flyers outside local edinburgh southern schools yesterday. I wish they could make the effort to look less creepy...i was reminded of the childcatcher in chitty chitty bang bang.

Something not right about that IMO.

[allmodcons]

Sorry if my posts from my phone annoy you when it does not always convey what I'm typing in the correct manner. But do you not think you are being a bit petty or is it that you just so anti-Labour that you try to attack anything. As for choosing to post a poll that shows a swing to Labour, what do you expect? I actually posted it after reading it but you just as free to post an alternative poll if you like or are you to busy playing at being a English teacher?

Correct!

Seemed to work aswell. Like the good little boy that you are, you amended your original post!!

[The Baldmans Comb]

Even that bastion of British Unionism' The Scotsman' has backed Salmond and the SNP which is only significant for the utter hypocrsy of this newspaper stance over the last 4 years.

It's looking good for positive campaigning, It's looking good for the future and it's looking good for Scotland with politicians who have turned out on the whole to be surprisingly excellent in their judgement calls over the last 5 years.:thumbsup:

Lets not go backwards though as the the Labour Party and their atrocious leader have nothing to offer Scotland.

[flash]

Great poll for the nats but just under 50% undecided its still all to play for.

But choice is clear separation or jobs ----Scotland must decide

What tedious drivel that slogan is- much like the horrific negative campaign fought by the Labour Party.

My natural instinct normally would be to vote Labour but they can ram it. Party of the people my erse.

[RyeSloan]

Only saw the last 20 odd minutes last night...Gray was, as usual, looking like a rabbit in headlights. Really really wooden and his response to the showing leadership jibe was actually pitiful. In my eyes the guy is unelectable and how he has ever made it to Scottish Labour Leader is beyond me...in public speaking at least he is useless and as a politician in debates even more so. What a handicap to take into any election no matter one where you are scrapping for every vote.

Salmond was Salmond, full of sound bites but a total generalist and loves to avoid the actual details. Sure he felt he didn't need to take many risks and was more than happy for Gray to win the votes for the SNP!

Tavish Scott seemed to be talking a different language, he needs to learn to communicate clearly. His response to the pensions question was embarrasing...oh I don't know much about the report so can't comment. He was either lying so he didn't have to give his view or seriously out of touch on (an admittedly reserved matter) a core issue facing the UK.

Finally although Goldie looks like someones granny I was impressed that she had the guts to stand and state that her party was different and didn't agree on free prescriptions. She was also brave enough to say they don't believe Uni education can continue to be free as the government does not have enough resource to maintain the level and numbers desired. If Gray had half the gumption and spine of Goldie then Labour would be much better off.

[hibsbollah]

Only saw the last 20 odd minutes last night...Gray was, as usual, looking like a rabbit in headlights. Really really wooden and his response to the showing leadership jibe was actually pitiful. In my eyes the guy is unelectable and how he has ever made it to Scottish Labour Leader is beyond me...in public speaking at least he is useless and as a politician in debates even more so. What a handicap to take into any election no matter one where you are scrapping for every vote.

Salmond was Salmond, full of sound bites but a total generalist and loves to avoid the actual details. Sure he felt he didn't need to take many risks and was more than happy for Gray to win the votes for the SNP!

Tavish Scott seemed to be talking a different language, he needs to learn to communicate clearly. His response to the pensions question was embarrasing...oh I don't know much about the report so can't comment. He was either lying so he didn't have to give his view or seriously out of touch on (an admittedly reserved matter) a core issue facing the UK.

Finally although Goldie looks like someones granny I was impressed that she had the guts to stand and state that her party was different and didn't agree on free prescriptions. She was also brave enough to say they don't believe Uni education can continue to be free as the government does not have enough resource to maintain the level and numbers desired. If Gray had half the gumption and spine of Goldie then Labour would be much better off.

I agree Goldie is a good debater and is generally coherent. Shame she looks like chic murray in a frock and is representing the Tories, still a toxic brand in scotland.

[--------]

I agree Goldie is a good debater and is generally coherent. Shame she looks like chic murray in a frock and is representing the Tories, still a toxic brand in scotland.

:agree:

Auntie Bella's the only Scottish party leader apart from Eck that I have any time for - Tavish Scott's a nonentity and Iain Gray's political toxic waste.

She's the only one who can consistently debate with Alec Salmond without eventually lying in her teeth or losing her temper or both.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I agree Goldie is a good debater and is generally coherent. Shame she looks like chic murray in a frock and is representing the Tories, still a toxic brand in scotland.

:eek:

:faf:

[hibsbollah]

:eek:

:faf:

Not my own work im afraid :-) ; Aidan Smith in the scotland on sunday, a genuine laugh-out-loud moment!

[sKipper]

Even that bastion of British Unionism' The Scotsman' has backed Salmond and the SNP which is only significant for the utter hypocrsy of this newspaper stance over the last 4 years.


Not to mention the last 2 or 3 weeks. :rolleyes:

Slated the SNP every chance they got. I reckon this decision is commerical with an eye to future sales. I have read many comments on Newsnet Scotland regarding folk ditching the paper after the election.

[marinello59]

Only saw the last 20 odd minutes last night...Gray was, as usual, looking like a rabbit in headlights. Really really wooden and his response to the showing leadership jibe was actually pitiful. In my eyes the guy is unelectable and how he has ever made it to Scottish Labour Leader is beyond me...in public speaking at least he is useless and as a politician in debates even more so. What a handicap to take into any election no matter one where you are scrapping for every vote.

Salmond was Salmond, full of sound bites but a total generalist and loves to avoid the actual details. Sure he felt he didn't need to take many risks and was more than happy for Gray to win the votes for the SNP!

Tavish Scott seemed to be talking a different language, he needs to learn to communicate clearly. His response to the pensions question was embarrasing...oh I don't know much about the report so can't comment. He was either lying so he didn't have to give his view or seriously out of touch on (an admittedly reserved matter) a core issue facing the UK.

Finally although Goldie looks like someones granny I was impressed that she had the guts to stand and state that her party was different and didn't agree on free prescriptions. She was also brave enough to say they don't believe Uni education can continue to be free as the government does not have enough resource to maintain the level and numbers desired. If Gray had half the gumption and spine of Goldie then Labour would be much better off.

How she looks really shouldn't matter. The Tories have probably been the only party to have fought an honest campaign. Although it is easier when they have no chance of winning anyway. A likeable Tory? Who'd have thought it?

[Part/Time Supporter]

How she looks really shouldn't matter. The Tories have probably been the only party to have fought an honest campaign. Although it is easier when they have no chance of winning anyway. A likeable Tory? Who'd have thought it?

Maybe it's not the Tories that have changed, but the electorate.

There was an article in the Hootsman yesterday saying that 10-15% more Scots identify themselves as either centrist or right-of-centre compared with 10 years ago (ie the numbers self-identifying as left of centre have gone down from ~65% to ~50%). The problem for the Tories is that a fair chunk of them seem to be voting SNP rather than Tory, hence why they have more or less flatlined in that time.

[allmodcons]

This is what's wrong with New Labour and why I hope they lose tomorrow. It's taken from www.scottishleftreview.com (http://www.scottishleftreview.com) and is a good summation of why Labour don't deserve to win tomorrow.

FAO 'Lucky'. You should take the blinkers off once in a while! Have a read of this.


“We have a Labour ‘movement’ in Scotland which deserve a rapid death. There can never have been a point in time when the Labour Party in Scotland was quite as dreadfully, pathetically pitiful. It has a leader that everyone knows is there on the basis of the ability to take instructions. Its loudest voice appears to have been given to a young careerist by the name of Richard Baker who has decided that self-righteous drivel about ‘knife crime’ and ‘soft on crime’ is how it is going to win in Scotland. It has a ‘health’ policy which would oppose Aspirin if the SNP supported it. This party has become a juvenile, reactionary, third-rate, witless and talentless sack of nonentities with no vision, no principles and nothing to say worth listening to. There are those who think that a decent leader would be all they need to ensure a win in the 2011 election. The fact that there is not a single candidate in the entire Parliamentary Party is telling. That the main choice of the ‘commentators’ was until recently Jim Murphy MP shows just how dislocated from reality the whole scene has become – when he was put head-to-head with someone other than the Daily Record and actual people (not the Daily Record version of ‘actual people’) were asked to rate him, only five per cent thought he was any good. And that’s their best hope? There are still good people in Labour, but they’ve largely given up.”

[IWasThere2016]

Only saw the last 20 odd minutes last night...Gray was, as usual, looking like a rabbit in headlights. Really really wooden and his response to the showing leadership jibe was actually pitiful. In my eyes the guy is unelectable and how he has ever made it to Scottish Labour Leader is beyond me...in public speaking at least he is useless and as a politician in debates even more so. What a handicap to take into any election no matter one where you are scrapping for every vote.

Salmond was Salmond, full of sound bites but a total generalist and loves to avoid the actual details. Sure he felt he didn't need to take many risks and was more than happy for Gray to win the votes for the SNP!

Tavish Scott seemed to be talking a different language, he needs to learn to communicate clearly. His response to the pensions question was embarrasing...oh I don't know much about the report so can't comment. He was either lying so he didn't have to give his view or seriously out of touch on (an admittedly reserved matter) a core issue facing the UK.

Finally although Goldie looks like someones granny I was impressed that she had the guts to stand and state that her party was different and didn't agree on free prescriptions. She was also brave enough to say they don't believe Uni education can continue to be free as the government does not have enough resource to maintain the level and numbers desired. If Gray had half the gumption and spine of Goldie then Labour would be much better off.


How she looks really shouldn't matter. The Tories have probably been the only party to have fought an honest campaign. Although it is easier when they have no chance of winning anyway. A likeable Tory? Who'd have thought it?

:agree: she was the only honest one amongst them .. I am tempted to vote for them!

[lucky]

This is what's wrong with New Labour and why I hope they lose tomorrow. It's taken from www.scottishleftreview.com (http://www.scottishleftreview.com) and is a good summation of why Labour don't deserve to win tomorrow.

FAO 'Lucky'. You should take the blinkers off once in a while! Have a read of this.


“We have a Labour ‘movement’ in Scotland which deserve a rapid death. There can never have been a point in time when the Labour Party in Scotland was quite as dreadfully, pathetically pitiful. It has a leader that everyone knows is there on the basis of the ability to take instructions. Its loudest voice appears to have been given to a young careerist by the name of Richard Baker who has decided that self-righteous drivel about ‘knife crime’ and ‘soft on crime’ is how it is going to win in Scotland. It has a ‘health’ policy which would oppose Aspirin if the SNP supported it. This party has become a juvenile, reactionary, third-rate, witless and talentless sack of nonentities with no vision, no principles and nothing to say worth listening to. There are those who think that a decent leader would be all they need to ensure a win in the 2011 election. The fact that there is not a single candidate in the entire Parliamentary Party is telling. That the main choice of the ‘commentators’ was until recently Jim Murphy MP shows just how dislocated from reality the whole scene has become – when he was put head-to-head with someone other than the Daily Record and actual people (not the Daily Record version of ‘actual people’) were asked to rate him, only five per cent thought he was any good. And that’s their best hope? There are still good people in Labour, but they’ve largely given up.”

First its my turn to be pedantic. the web address is www.scottishleftreview.org not .com :greengrin

Secondly I have regularly written for the Scottish left review since its creation. The editor Bob Thompson is personal friend. Whilst I enjoy reading the magazine it does not mean I agree with all articles in it. I have mentioned to Bob on several occasions that it is to pro Nat. I do agree there are many within the Labour party who make my skin crawl, however rather than surrender my party membership after more than 20 years I have stayed and fought my corner. There are many good Labour candidates with strong trade union backgrounds. As such I will continue to fight to wrestle for control of the party along with like minded individuals. But until then I work and support candidates who meet the socialist agenda.

[lucky]

This is what's wrong with New Labour and why I hope they lose tomorrow. It's taken from www.scottishleftreview.com (http://www.scottishleftreview.com) and is a good summation of why Labour don't deserve to win tomorrow.

FAO 'Lucky'. You should take the blinkers off once in a while! Have a read of this.


“We have a Labour ‘movement’ in Scotland which deserve a rapid death. There can never have been a point in time when the Labour Party in Scotland was quite as dreadfully, pathetically pitiful. It has a leader that everyone knows is there on the basis of the ability to take instructions. Its loudest voice appears to have been given to a young careerist by the name of Richard Baker who has decided that self-righteous drivel about ‘knife crime’ and ‘soft on crime’ is how it is going to win in Scotland. It has a ‘health’ policy which would oppose Aspirin if the SNP supported it. This party has become a juvenile, reactionary, third-rate, witless and talentless sack of nonentities with no vision, no principles and nothing to say worth listening to. There are those who think that a decent leader would be all they need to ensure a win in the 2011 election. The fact that there is not a single candidate in the entire Parliamentary Party is telling. That the main choice of the ‘commentators’ was until recently Jim Murphy MP shows just how dislocated from reality the whole scene has become – when he was put head-to-head with someone other than the Daily Record and actual people (not the Daily Record version of ‘actual people’) were asked to rate him, only five per cent thought he was any good. And that’s their best hope? There are still good people in Labour, but they’ve largely given up.”

Meant to mention I am impressed that you read the scottish left review but does not mean your posts have been worthy :greengrin

[allmodcons]

Meant to mention I am impressed that you read the scottish left review but does not mean your posts have been worthy :greengrin

Glad to see you have a sense of humour under the weight of all that political baggage you carry around!:greengrin

[One Day Soon]

This is what's wrong with New Labour and why I hope they lose tomorrow. It's taken from www.scottishleftreview.com (http://www.scottishleftreview.com) and is a good summation of why Labour don't deserve to win tomorrow.

FAO 'Lucky'. You should take the blinkers off once in a while! Have a read of this.


“We have a Labour ‘movement’ in Scotland which deserve a rapid death. There can never have been a point in time when the Labour Party in Scotland was quite as dreadfully, pathetically pitiful. It has a leader that everyone knows is there on the basis of the ability to take instructions. Its loudest voice appears to have been given to a young careerist by the name of Richard Baker who has decided that self-righteous drivel about ‘knife crime’ and ‘soft on crime’ is how it is going to win in Scotland. It has a ‘health’ policy which would oppose Aspirin if the SNP supported it. This party has become a juvenile, reactionary, third-rate, witless and talentless sack of nonentities with no vision, no principles and nothing to say worth listening to. There are those who think that a decent leader would be all they need to ensure a win in the 2011 election. The fact that there is not a single candidate in the entire Parliamentary Party is telling. That the main choice of the ‘commentators’ was until recently Jim Murphy MP shows just how dislocated from reality the whole scene has become – when he was put head-to-head with someone other than the Daily Record and actual people (not the Daily Record version of ‘actual people’) were asked to rate him, only five per cent thought he was any good. And that’s their best hope? There are still good people in Labour, but they’ve largely given up.”

The Scottish Left Review on Labour? :faf:

What next, a balanced and authoritative critique of trade unions from Norman Tebbit?

[allmodcons]

The Scottish Left Review on Labour? :faf:

What next, a balanced and authoritative critique of trade unions from Norman Tebbit?

Here's me thinking 'Scottish' Labour are a left of centre party. Perhaps not eh?

[bighairyfaeleith]

Here's me thinking 'Scottish' Labour are a left of centre party. Perhaps not eh?

used to be:wink:

[--------]

Here's me thinking 'Scottish' Labour are a left of centre party. Perhaps not eh?


used to be:wink:


Once upon a time. Not any longer.

[RyeSloan]

With all the polls and the perfect wind for the SNP it will be interesting to see just what their share of the vote is...considering the following:

Labour in big trouble with a negative campaign and a total numpty as leader

Lib Dems in big trouble thanks to their current problems due to their Coalition agreement

Tories, strong campaign and good leader but historically hated in Scotland.

SNP, considered OK by most after a rather popularist 4 years in charge


This election is surely then the absolutely perfect scenario for Salmond and anything else but a substantial uplift on their vote must be considered failure....I think in years to come this will be seen as a historic high water mark for the SNP vote.

[hibsbollah]

Anyone else feel a sense of pride and privelege after voting, or is it just me :-)

[CropleyWasGod]

Anyone else feel a sense of pride and privelege after voting, or is it just me :-)

Not just you. Been doing it for 35 years now, and I still get a wee buzz going in to the polling station, and a sense of worthiness afterwards. Even when the choices are shecht, or the issues not that important to me.

My 18 year old is voting for the first time today, and is excited about it. Good.

[JimBHibees]

With all the polls and the perfect wind for the SNP it will be interesting to see just what their share of the vote is...considering the following:

Labour in big trouble with a negative campaign and a total numpty as leader

Lib Dems in big trouble thanks to their current problems due to their Coalition agreement

Tories, strong campaign and good leader but historically hated in Scotland.

SNP, considered OK by most after a rather popularist 4 years in charge


This election is surely then the absolutely perfect scenario for Salmond and anything else but a substantial uplift on their vote must be considered failure....I think in years to come this will be seen as a historic high water mark for the SNP vote.

You may be right however I wouldnt underplay the almost automatic reaction in some parts of the country to mechanically vote for Labour. Dont think their vote will haemorrage (sp?) as much as suggested by some polls indeed it was mentioned in the STV debate that the polls had the SNP 8 points ahead last time and they only got a .5% lead. Polls are snapshots and IMO need to be taken with a large pinch. Personally hope they are right but wouldnt be in the least surprised if they dont play out as has been outlined indeed I think it will be very close tonight not unlike last time.

[One Day Soon]

Here's me thinking 'Scottish' Labour are a left of centre party. Perhaps not eh?

What, because a grouping that largely hates the Labour Party and acts as a cluster point for the posturing hard left says its not?

The day that the likes of those people are the arbiters of what constitutes a left, right or centre of centre political party is the day you might as well put Fearne Cotton in charge of your political judgement.

Or because you say its not?

[JimBHibees]

The Scottish Left Review on Labour? :faf:

What next, a balanced and authoritative critique of trade unions from Norman Tebbit?

Yet Lucky who is obviously an ardent Labour supporter has regularly written articles for it so obviously not as anti Labour as you would like others to think.

[One Day Soon]

used to be:wink:

Aren't you more familiar with a right of centre perspective?

[One Day Soon]

Yet Lucky who is obviously an ardent Labour supporter has regularly written articles for it so obviously not as anti Labour as you would like others to think.

Lucky, as he has made clear himself, is an exception.

And others can, as far as I'm concerned, think and spout their own bollock5 on the matter to their hearts content. If I stopped to engage with every cyber gnat on this board there would be no time for anything else.

If the views of SLR mattered significantly in any regard then I would be concerned. I'm not.

[Betty Boop]

How she looks really shouldn't matter. The Tories have probably been the only party to have fought an honest campaign. Although it is easier when they have no chance of winning anyway. A likeable Tory? Who'd have thought it?

She has more balls than the other three put together, pity she is a Tory. Salmond, Scott and Gray are cracking looking guys though ! :rolleyes:

[RyeSloan]

You may be right however I wouldnt underplay the almost automatic reaction in some parts of the country to mechanically vote for Labour. Dont think their vote will haemorrage (sp?) as much as suggested by some polls indeed it was mentioned in the STV debate that the polls had the SNP 8 points ahead last time and they only got a .5% lead. Polls are snapshots and IMO need to be taken with a large pinch. Personally hope they are right but wouldnt be in the least surprised if they dont play out as has been outlined indeed I think it will be very close tonight not unlike last time.

Fair points...although quite why Scotland is so wedded to Labour I have no idea.

[RyeSloan]

used to be:wink:


Once upon a time. Not any longer.

Well if they are not left of centre what the hell are they?

Surely you cannot be seriously suggesting Scottish Labour are right of centre?

[steakbake]

Fair points...although quite why Scotland is so wedded to Labour I have no idea.

It's strange because between the 30s and 50s, Scotland was mostly blue with a red corridor in the central belt. Then Labour went on the rise in the 60s.

I dont think Labour will ever go completely out of fashion but I do think that there is still a fairly hardcore section of their vote in Scotland that would - and do - turn out to vote for the proverbial monkey with a red rosette.

[Part/Time Supporter]

It's strange because between the 30s and 50s, Scotland was mostly blue with a red corridor in the central belt. Then Labour went on the rise in the 60s.

I dont think Labour will ever go completely out of fashion but I do think that there is still a fairly hardcore section of their vote in Scotland that would - and do - turn out to vote for the proverbial monkey with a red rosette.

It looks like it's kind of going back that way, except with the SNP instead of the old Scottish Unionists (who were allied to the Tories). The SNP have got good chances of winning every seat north of Fife, except Orkney and Shetland. Of course Orkney and Shetland were voting Liberal when the old Liberal Party could have had their Westminster parliamentary meetings in a black cab.

It could be argued that Labour never really went on much of a rise, in the sense that they have never won >50% of the vote in Scotland. They've pretty much always been in that 35% - 45% range, concentrated mainly in the west central belt. What has helped them win more seats in other parts is that the opposition has been divided three ways.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Well if they are not left of centre what the hell are they?

Surely you cannot be seriously suggesting Scottish Labour are right of centre?

in recent years I would say they have been pretty much in the centre, trying to please everyone and TBH probably not really pleasing anyone.

[hibsbollah]

Not just you. Been doing it for 35 years now, and I still get a wee buzz going in to the polling station, and a sense of worthiness afterwards. Even when the choices are shecht, or the issues not that important to me.

My 18 year old is voting for the first time today, and is excited about it. Good.

The correct answer for the weary cynic would be 'its all a charade' or 'dont vote it just encourages them'. I prefer to think about how relatively recently universal suffrage was achieved in this country (and is still absent in many places). My grandad was still alive when you needed to be a landowner to vote. No more rotten boroughs now.:aok:

[allmodcons]

What, because a grouping that largely hates the Labour Party and acts as a cluster point for the posturing hard left says its not?

The day that the likes of those people are the arbiters of what constitutes a left, right or centre of centre political party is the day you might as well put Fearne Cotton in charge of your political judgement.

Or because you say its not?

You seem to be somewhat at odds with others of your political persuasion. This is what 'Lucky' had to say. Has he been listening to Fearne Cotton?

I have regularly written for the Scottish left review since its creation. The editor Bob Thompson is personal friend. Whilst I enjoy reading the magazine it does not mean I agree with all articles in it. I have mentioned to Bob on several occasions that it is to pro Nat. I do agree there are many within the Labour party who make my skin crawl, however rather than surrender my party membership after more than 20 years I have stayed and fought my corner. There are many good Labour candidates with strong trade union backgrounds. As such I will continue to fight to wrestle for control of the party along with like minded individuals. But until then I work and support candidates who meet the socialist agenda.

[ancienthibby]

The correct answer for the weary cynic would be 'its all a charade' or 'dont vote it just encourages them'. I prefer to think about how relatively recently universal suffrage was achieved in this country (and is still absent in many places). My grandad was still alive when you needed to be a landowner to vote. No more rotten boroughs now.:aok:

Well that's me joined the happy band of voters!

I do enjoy the privilege we are blessed with on these shores and I hope my beloved little country takes a large step forward today, electing the SNP with an increased representation, taking seats from both the FibDems and Liebor.

I read somewhere over the past few days that Henry McLeish and Susan Deacon might, repeat might, be at the forefront of a breakaway group of disaffected Liebor Party members, if they take a bashing tonight.

Anyone able to shed informed light on this??

[Part/Time Supporter]

Half the problem with the Labour Party in Scotland (and N England) is that it has attracted some numpties who barely have an ideological thought, but are quite interested in the idea of making a (v. good) living out of politics.

I suppose the SNP may go the same way if they start winning more often.

[MountcastleHibs]

Labour have wheeled Gordon Brown out in Edinburgh East today. After Alex Salmond's visit yesterday, it shows how important the parties feel this seat is.

[Beefster]

When my oldies are considering not voting Labour for the first time in their lives, you know how low Labour have sunk.

Double bonus - I persuaded them to vote 'no' in the referendum.

[bighairyfaeleith]

When my oldies are considering not voting Labour for the first time in their lives, you know how low Labour have sunk.

Double bonus - I persuaded them to vote 'no' in the referendum.

really pained me to vote No today as I hate ever agreeing with that twat cameron, just can't get with the AV idea though.

[hibsbollah]

Looking at the regional list election paper just brought it home what a total ****ing farce the left in scotland has become. 3 socialist parties, the names of which i cant even recall, stealing votes from each other in a race to the bottom to see who can lose their deposit first (is there a 'lose your deposit' scenario with the regional list i wonder?)and probably shouting 'splitter!' at the same time.

Truly embarassing.

[DaveF]

I just had a phone call from the SNP asking if I had voted?

Sign of panic in the Almond Valley maybe?

[One Day Soon]

Well that's me joined the happy band of voters!

I do enjoy the privilege we are blessed with on these shores and I hope my beloved little country takes a large step forward today, electing the SNP with an increased representation, taking seats from both the FibDems and Liebor.

I read somewhere over the past few days that Henry McLeish and Susan Deacon might, repeat might, be at the forefront of a breakaway group of disaffected Liebor Party members, if they take a bashing tonight.

Anyone able to shed informed light on this??

I can help you with that. It's complete and utter pi5h. However I sincerely wish it was not - it would be hilarious to watch. At least the SDP had a gang of four. The former may not even be in the Labour Party any longer.

[lucky]

Nats have taken both west lothian away by a big margin. Victors the spoils

[cabbageandribs1875]

And also managed to rip off freezing the council tax from SNP even though they slated it in parliament. :rolleyes:

Got to be said has there ever been a worse leader ever than Iain Gray, dear oh dear he is so far out of his depth it is embarressing.

the courier had an article with all candidates, all labours mary mulligan talked about was anti-SNP this and anti-SNP that :bitchy: whereas the other candidates all talked about there respective party manifestos :agree:

mon fiona hyslop and angela constance :greengrin

[Beefster]

"12:09: The BBC reporting that traditional Labour areas of Ormiston and Tranent look to be neck and neck between SNP and Lab"

Let's hope that the rest of the county are doing their bit too.

[sKipper]

Nats have taken both west lothian away by a big margin. Victors the spoils

Any update on East Lothian Lucky ?

Seem to be conflicting stories.

[sKipper]

I just had a phone call from the SNP asking if I had voted?

Sign of panic in the Almond Valley maybe?

Got the same in Linlithgow this evening. Think they are just ensuring their vote is getting out.

[Removed]

DaveF and sKipper - had you guys actually voted by the time you got the phone call?

[sKipper]

DaveF and sKipper - had you guys actually voted by the time you got the phone call?

I had.

[MountcastleHibs]

Andy Kerr loses East Kilbride. Massive result for the SNP.

[sKipper]

Andy Kerr loses East Kilbride. Massive result for the SNP.


SNP neck and neck in Edinburgh Pentlands !! From a Tory source :dizzy:

[Lmc2105]

SNP Gain Hamilton

Majority 2213

Bad night for Labour

[Lmc2105]

If Gray's seat goes in East Lothian where would that leave Labour Tonight?

[cabbageandribs1875]

If Gray's seat goes in East Lothian where would that leave Labour Tonight?



possibly where they were yesterday....in opposition :greengrin

[One Day Soon]

The Lib Dem collapse is staggering. They have become as toxic as Thatcher was in just one year. Amazing.

I hope there is an SNP overall majority.

[Lmc2105]

possibly where they were yesterday....in opposition :greengrin

haha i should have worded that better :greengrin

But if this just happened in a very safe Labour Seat god knows what is going to happen overall for the SNP

I do think they will be well on there way to a Majority Government :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

haha i should have worded that better :greengrin

But if this just happened in a very safe Labour Seat god knows what is going to happen overall for the SNP

I do think they will be well on there way to a Majority Government :greengrin

they could maybe get andy kerr to take over the leadership



oops...no they couldnt :greengrin

[Lmc2105]

they could maybe get andy kerr to take over the leadership



oops...no they couldnt :greengrin

:na na:

Seemingly Liberal Democrats lost all there Councilors in Manchester Ouch!!

[cabbageandribs1875]

iain gray 'my seat is tight, i think' should have worn loose fitting boxers

[cabbageandribs1875]

:na na:

Seemingly Liberal Democrats lost all there Councilors in Manchester Ouch!!



they will turn up somewhere:agree:

[cabbageandribs1875]

and another SNP seat, clydesdale :agree:

[Lmc2105]

and another SNP seat, clydesdale :agree:

Majority of 4216 that's scary like another strong Labour seat as well

[cabbageandribs1875]

angela constance is a hunny

[sKipper]

STV saying Kenny MacCaskill in Edinburgh East comfortably ahead :greengrin

[Beefster]

Gray's looking mightily happy / relieved so I'm assuming that he's held on.

[cabbageandribs1875]

at last, a labour politician saying it was the right thing to do freeing al -megrahi

[ballengeich]

I hope there is an SNP overall majority.

Someone has to take the bait - why?

[cabbageandribs1875]

how long does it take to count the votes, hunners of counters as well :I'm waiti

[cabbageandribs1875]

labour gain eastwood from the cons

[thekaratekid]

Mike Pringle claiming he's lost Edinburgh South

[cabbageandribs1875]

Dundee east SNP hold

[Beefster]

Recount in East Lothian according to Twitter. 150 votes in it.

[Calvin]

Recount in East Lothian according to Twitter. 150 votes in it.

I knew I should have voted at home!

[MountcastleHibs]

Sturgeon wins Glasgow Southside, with over 4000 majority.

[One Day Soon]

Someone has to take the bait - why?

Altruistic reason: Because the real issues which come next (budget cuts mainly) will require a majority govt to be able to take the tough action needed.

Party reason: Because I want to see the SNP take sole responsibility for government in a context where it isn't just about how you spend extra money and spin.

[One Day Soon]

Mike Pringle claiming he's lost Edinburgh South

Its not just a claim. He's definitely out, just a question of whether SNP or Labour win it.

[ballengeich]

Altruistic reason: Because the real issues which come next (budget cuts mainly) will require a majority govt to be able to take the tough action needed.

Party reason: Because I want to see the SNP take sole responsibility for government in a context where it isn't just about how you spend extra money and spin.

These both sound like my reason for wanting Labour to win the last UK election - they would have had to sort out the fiscal mess they had created.

[cabbageandribs1875]

someone plz take the batteries out of margaret curran dammit, does she secretly like the SNP ? cause she cant stop talking about them :greengrin


sounds like glasgow shettleston going to the SNP

[lucky]

Fantastic night for the nats. Congratulations to wee eck. I'm gutted.

[Calvin]

Lucky, lucky boy. Quite gutted that they as close as 151 votes but a very good effort.

[cabbageandribs1875]

iain gray wins by 151 votes ffs :brickwall


jeeeezo :zzzzz!:

[thekaratekid]

I hope Chisholm holds Edinburgh North & Leith

[cabbageandribs1875]

wtf is it with the shetlands and orkney voting for the lib-dems over the years :confused:

[sKipper]

Fantastic night for the nats. Congratulations to wee eck. I'm gutted.

Well said sir. Took guts to say that. :not worth

[ballengeich]

wtf is it with the shetlands and orkney voting for the lib-dems over the years :confused:

Who else should they vote for? The Tories are the party of the toffs and Labour are the party of the city masses.

[thekaratekid]

SNP take Edinburgh Pentlands

[One Day Soon]

wtf is it with the shetlands and orkney voting for the lib-dems over the years :confused:

I think all 48 electors go to the pub and sort it out over a few pints don't they?

[cabbageandribs1875]

well done falkirk east AND west :greengrin


and cumbernauld

[MountcastleHibs]

If we didn't know it before, we know it now. Iain Gray is delusional.

[One Day Soon]

Salmond is undoubtedly an excellent politician. The next five years will tell us if he's a leader. Very soon, after the euphoria, we are facing a pretty harsh dawn.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Who else should they vote for? The Tories are the party of the toffs and Labour are the party of the city masses.


I think all 48 electors go to the pub and sort it out over a few pints don't they?



well we should give them back to the vikings:agree:

[One Day Soon]

well we should give them back to the vikings:agree:

I think they think that they are semi-independent vikings.

[cabbageandribs1875]

wee eck scrapes through









with a 15K+ majority :wink:


glesca anniesland has the SNP winning by 4 votes, then just ONE vote after a recount :eek: another recount taking place

SNP won by 7 votes

[I'm_cabbaged]

At the count at ingleston bored out of brains, snp just. Won Pentland

[thekaratekid]

Bundles being counted for Edinburgh Northern and Leith

sounds close

[thekaratekid]

Bundles being counted for Edinburgh Northern and Leith

sounds close

STV call Edinburgh Northern & Leith for SNP

twitter says a possible recount on the cards

[cabbageandribs1875]

labour are getting a bit of a bloody nose in weedgieland


AND edinburgh :greengrin




well done fiona hyslop(linlithgow) :agree: yi got my vote :thumbsup:

[sKipper]

50% of the votes in Linlithgow. Over 17000 votes !

Waited all my life for this :greengrin

[Calvin]

Fatty Foulkes on the English channel blaming the media for their crushing and calling the SNP right wingers. Sare loser :na na:

[MountcastleHibs]

Constance holds Almond Valley.

[cabbageandribs1875]

almond valley SNP luvly double :greengrin

[thekaratekid]

Lab to hold Edinburgh Northern & Leith

[Calvin]

5500 majority in a key Labour target seat sums up the night I think.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Edinburgh southern-SNP
Edinburgh eastern SNP- MacAskill wins, SNP take 5 out of 6 Edinburgh seats(shame on my hometown leith :-( )
seats so far

SNP-37

LAB-14

LD- 2

CON-1


nae luck annabel goldie- SNP gain

[bighairyfaeleith]

Looks like labour doing well in the regionals as well, might not quite get an overall majority but won't be far off it.

[CropleyWasGod]

If Gray's seat goes in East Lothian where would that leave Labour Tonight?

Better off? :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Who was the poster who said 'canvassing returns' showed Gray would hold eastlothian with an increased majority? He was battered last night. Berry didnt take it though, thank god.

[CropleyWasGod]

Who was the poster who said 'canvassing returns' showed Gray would hold eastlothian with an increased majority? He was battered last night. Berry didnt take it though, thank god.

She's demanded a recount of the canvassing returns.

[hibsbollah]

Berrys a boy :-)

[CropleyWasGod]

Berrys a boy :-)

It's been a long night. I was actually meaning Gray.

He's demanded a recount of his birth certificate.

[hibsbollah]

Iain Gray is demanding confirmation that his name is, in fact, Iain.

[bighairyfaeleith]

That was a huge swing to the snp in Edinburgh north, almost taking it as well. Shame they missed out but hope that sends a pretty clear message to the lib dems as this was a seat they should have been battling to win.

[marinello59]

You can't say anything other than that this has been a stunning success for the SNP.
Labour are suffering a double whammy here as a lot of the senior MSPs they are losing were not standing on lists. A party already lacking genuine heavyweights at Holyrood has just seen it's talent pool diluted further still.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Although I voted SNP and I am happy they are winning, part of me doesn't want them to have an outright majority, I still want them to have to work hard to get things like the budgets passed etc and would want at least one other party to be able to hold them to account on key issues.

[Beefster]

Although I voted SNP and I am happy they are winning, part of me doesn't want them to have an outright majority, I still want them to have to work hard to get things like the budgets passed etc and would want at least one other party to be able to hold them to account on key issues.

I want them to win a majority. They're big boys now and we need a strong government to get the country out of the mess that it's in.

On another note, I just watched Iain Gray's interviews. I really hope that Scottish Labour continue to blame the result on failing to convince the Lib Dem voters to move for Labour. The longer they do that, the less they are dealing with the real issues of their demise.

Edit: I also want the SNP to be able to hold an independence referendum so that we can kill any question of separation for a generation or so.

[--------]

iain gray wins by 151 votes ffs :brickwall


jeeeezo :zzzzz!:



This is good. Hopefully he will continue as leader. I like him. :devil:

[--------]

You can't say anything other than that this has been a stunning success for the SNP.
Labour are suffering a double whammy here as a lot of the senior MSPs they are losing were not standing on lists. A party already lacking genuine heavyweights at Holyrood has just seen it's talent pool diluted further still.


I assume you're using the term "talent pool" loosely here?

|I find it hard to think of Andy Kerr and Karen Whitefield as talented, is all.

[marinello59]

I want them to win a majority. They're big boys now and we need a strong government to get the country out of the mess that it's in.

On another note, I just watched Iain Gray's interviews. I really hope that Scottish Labour continue to blame the result on failing to convince the Lib Dem voters to move for Labour. The longer they do that, the less they are dealing with the real issues of their demise.

Even looking at the results so far it will be apparent to them that isn't why they have done so badly. In straight head to heads against the SNP they have taken a bit of a doing.
I'm with you in that I want to see a majority Government here. I do worry about where the opposition within the Parliament is going to come from though. Interesting times ahead.

[marinello59]

I assume you're using the term "talent pool" loosely here?

|I find it hard to think of Andy Kerr and Karen Whitefield as talented, is all.

It's all relative Doddie. :greengrin
Labour send their best to Westminster, the second raters to Holyrood and the third raters to the Cooncils. The list candidates? Oh dear.

[HibeeSince85]

If anyone wanted to rake back the posts on this thread I said weeks back that I could see an SNP majority to which to a man everyone that replied disagreed.

Well, what do you know eh, Labour collapse and other parties also lose seats to the Nats, hate saying I told you so:greengrin

[down-the-slope]

very pleased with way it is going. SNP have managed to lead a minority gov well in a very difficult climate...now they need to show maturity and lead with what looks like a significant majority and see Scotland 'stood up for' as we try and drag the economy back to health.....

I do want to see a debate and eventual refferendum on independance / further powers...but it should not deflect from the other real current challenges that face us.

(I personally want independance and think we as a country have acted like a stroppy teenager for too long, still living at home not paying our way / making our own desicions and gaining from (or living with consequences of) our choices...but bleating about how we could do it. We need to 'leave home' stand on our own feet and make our own specific identity and life for ourself as a nation)

[CropleyWasGod]

If anyone wanted to rake back the posts on this thread I said weeks back that I could see an SNP majority to which to a man everyone that replied disagreed.

Well, what do you know eh, Labour collapse and other parties also lose seats to the Nats, hate saying I told you so:greengrin

To be fair, it's not yet cut and dried that there will be an overall majority. What Labour is losing in constituency seats, it is gaining in list seats.... see Glasgow....

[HibeeSince85]

To be fair, it's not yet cut and dried that there will be an overall majority. What Labour is losing in constituency seats, it is gaining in list seats.... see Glasgow....


Yeah I know, we will have the full picture in a few hours but I'm confident of the outcome.

Either way they have a clear mandate now to govern, let's see what they can do with it.

[Beefster]

Yeah I know, we will have the full picture in a few hours but I'm confident of the outcome.

Either way they have a clear mandate now to govern, let's see what they can do with it.

Sorry to be a pedant but they won't have a clear mandate to govern unless they win a majority. Even an arrangement with the Greens (or someone else) to produce a majority isn't a clear mandate.

That's the argument that's been used against the Coalition since last year despite the Tories having over 300 seats and their combined vote being around 60%.

[khib70]

This is good. Hopefully he will continue as leader. I like him. :devil:
:greengrin Yeah, me too!!

Seriously, there's no clearer indication of Labour's smug, complacent attitude to the Scottish electorate than their expectation that people would vote in this inept nonentity as First Minister.

Voters all over Scotland are fed up being patronised by this politically bankrupt shower, as is shown by their losing five seats in "red shirted monkey" territory over in the Weedge.

[ancienthibby]

Sorry to be a pedant but they won't have a clear mandate to govern unless they win a majority. Even an arrangement with the Greens (or someone else) to produce a majority isn't a clear mandate.

That's the argument that's been used against the Coalition since last year despite the Tories having over 300 seats and their combined vote being around 60%.

BBC currently predicting that SNP will have 68 seats, which would be a clear majority!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Wee update SNP now have 49 seats - 2 more than in the last Parliament with more to come.

[Saorsa]

Fantastic election for Eck and the SNP :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Congratulations from all of us in the tartan underpants brigade :saltireflag

:saltireflag :saltireflag :saltireflag :saltireflag :saltireflag :saltireflag :saltireflag

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think Labour hanging onto London's coat tails during McConnel's tenure has come back to bite them. The SNP recognised that if you are the government of a country you are supposed to act for that country first. I think people have responded to the positive approach that Salmond took during his first stint, and recognise that he is a leader.

As for independence, that's another thing, and attempting to shoot the SNP down because they wanted to give the people a choice was downright stupid. Scottish Labour really needs to focus on what it can deliver to Scotland. They are lost and showing no signs of grasping the new dynamics up here.

[Betty Boop]

I think Labour hanging onto London's coat tails during McConnel's tenure has come back to bite them. The SNP recognised that if you are the government of a country you are supposed to act for that country first. I think people have responded to the positive approach that Salmond took during his first stint, and recognise that he is a leader.

As for independence, that's another thing, and attempting to shoot the SNP down because they wanted to give the people a choice was downright stupid. Scottish Labour really needs to focus on what it can deliver to Scotland. They are lost and showing no signs of grasping the new dynamics up here.

They need a new leader pronto, Gray is hopeless.

[greenlex]

They need a new leader pronto, Gray is hopeless.

Milliband is not much better. Where are the strong characters that filled the Labour ranks for years pre Blair? There is not one Labour MP at the moment I can see leading Britain as a whole never mind Scotland. To be honest the Tories ae no better.We have become a country of no marks.

[CropleyWasGod]

They need a new leader pronto, Gray is hopeless.

Henry McLeish was pretty scathing last night about them, even before the results. Seems strange to say it, but he impressed me more than Gray.

And, again strange days when even Annabelle seems to have garnered more respect than Gray...

[hibsbollah]

absolutely no chance of of labour losing all of lothian seats. Labour will hold Edinburgh Central, Sarah Boyack, Edinburgh North and Leith, Malcolm Chisholm
East Lothian Ian Gray, Linlithgow Mary Mulligan, win Edinburgh South Paul Godzik and I also fancy Lawrence Fitzpartick in Almond Valley down to the sheer hard work being done locally.

Blimey.
Edinburgh pentlands and edinburgh southern, both strong traditional middle class areas going to the SNP was the massive shock. SNPs Eadie in Southern went from distant 3rd to win a 2 horse race. Quite incredible.

[CropleyWasGod]

Blimey.
Edinburgh pentlands and edinburgh southern, both strong traditional middle class areas going to the SNP was the massive shock. SNPs Eadie in Southern went from distant 3rd to win a 2 horse race. Quite incredible.

My own area, Edinburgh West, was a big shock to me. Growing up, it was always Tory. Then, 15 or so years ago, it turned Liberal. It is now, for the first time ever I think, SNP.

[DaveF]

The results so far are spectacular for the SNP.

I didn't really think it was meant to be possible for any one party to majority govern in Scotland, but it's looking like a real possibility now.

A real historic moment and one I'm glad to have played a very small part in. (by voting :greengrin)

[hibsbollah]

My own area, Edinburgh West, was a big shock to me. Growing up, it was always Tory. Then, 15 or so years ago, it turned Liberal. It is now, for the first time ever I think, SNP.

Exactly the same in edinburgh south, (although labour held it briefly due to boundary changes at one point). And Pentlands was of course previously Rifkinds seat. But now the lib dems collapse has meant the SNP is now a respectable middle class option.

[Beefster]

I appreciate it's a difficult day for Labour supporters but I'd love to hear from lucky, ODS and Mibbes about where Scottish Labour go from here.

Do they stick with Gray and risk becoming irrelevant in Scottish Politics or do they get rid of him quickly and rebuild under a more competent, charismatic leader (if one exists)? Will the result have any impact on Ed Miliband, especially if the AV vote goes as expected too?

No baiting, just genuinely interested in how the grassroots are reacting.

[Hainan Hibs]

Labour got bummed.

[One Day Soon]

Fantastic election for Eck and the SNP :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Congratulations from all of us in the tartan underpants brigade :saltireflag

:saltireflag :saltireflag :saltireflag :saltireflag :saltireflag :saltireflag :saltireflag

Well, for what its worth, congratulations to all of you in the Tartan Underpants Brigade. Better get down to the tourist tat shops fast, those see you jimmy hats and pants will be going fast!

Looks like an overall majority too so we can pretty much all agree we are happy with that - albeit for differing reasons.

Now for the big questions. 1. Is this a mandate for constitutional change and more powers for the SP as Fiona Hyslop is currently saying? 2. Which manifesto promises are going to be junked to balance the budget over the next five years?

[lucky]

Blimey.
Edinburgh pentlands and edinburgh southern, both strong traditional middle class areas going to the SNP was the massive shock. SNPs Eadie in Southern went from distant 3rd to win a 2 horse race. Quite incredible.
Amazing results got the SNP

[cabbageandribs1875]

This is good. Hopefully he will continue as leader. I like him. :devil:

i actually feel a tad sorry for the guy(only because he's a hibby:wink:) i'm shocked at these results, shocked at the fact labour have won so many seats :agree: but if iain gray gets lonely his party could always bring back this wummin below

7369

she could gobble up all the nats seats in one munch :devil:

[DaveF]

2. Which manifesto promises are going to be junked to balance the budget over the next five years?

I guess we'll find out over the next 5 years.

I'm far from a political expert but I'm guessing Labour (at a national level) junked some promises in order to build up the massive deficit they left the country with.

Strikes me (as an ordinary bloke) that Labour were not too good at balancing the budget, so if it didn't bother you before, why is it now?

[CropleyWasGod]

This from David Cameron...

But on the issue of the United Kingdom, if they want to hold a referendum, I will campaign to keep our United Kingdom together, with every single fibre that I have."

That's it in the bag then :greengrin

Seriously, though, this is the perfect storm that Salmond has been waiting for. An SNP majority here, with the Tories in Westminster.

[cabbageandribs1875]

wee eck for scotlands first president :not worth:rockin::deal::greengrin

[bawheid]

This from David Cameron...

But on the issue of the United Kingdom, if they want to hold a referendum, I will campaign to keep our United Kingdom together, with every single fibre that I have."

That's it in the bag then :greengrin

Seriously, though, this is the perfect storm that Salmond has been waiting for. An SNP majority here, with the Tories in Westminster.

Was thinking that myself.

The best thing a Tory leader could do during any referendum campaign would be to keep the hell out of the way!

[One Day Soon]

I appreciate it's a difficult day for Labour supporters but I'd love to hear from lucky, ODS and Mibbes about where Scottish Labour go from here.

Do they stick with Gray and risk becoming irrelevant in Scottish Politics or do they get rid of him quickly and rebuild under a more competent, charismatic leader (if one exists)? Will the result have any impact on Ed Miliband, especially if the AV vote goes as expected too?

No baiting, just genuinely interested in how the grassroots are reacting.

No problem. Some of us think this is a difficult day with a potentially massive silver lining, that being the opportunity to reinvent Labour in Scotland as a dynamic political party.

I appreciate that for many posters on here the problem looks like Iain Gray - particularly since the election effectively became a ba5tardi5ed one in which the only matter for debate was a choice between him and Eck. However Gray is more of a symptom than the core problem. Labour's challenges are much more profound and they need to be addressed as part and parcel of the leadership question.

There is a job of work to be done on organisation, membership and candidate quality, fundraising, relationships with business and civic Scotland and, of course, leadership. The fundamental challenge though is in terms of purpose, vision and policies. Until Labour can become a party that challenges producer interests in public services in favour of consumer interests and can articulate a persuasive economic plan for Scotland it is going to be playing at modernisation.

As for Miliband, the shop sold us the wrong one. Take it back and change it.

One other note. This is the last time the TUBs will be able to claim that you could put a red rosette on a monkey and it would get elected in certain parts of Scotland. If and when those seats are won back it will have to be regarded as being because they will have deserved to win.

A final point. Listening to the post-match analysis on negative campaigning from Ken MacIntosh he makes a fair point. Labour were not alone in running positive and negative messages - the SNP negative personal attacks on Iain Gray have been unrelenting as evidenced by many TUBs on this thread.

[One Day Soon]

I guess we'll find out over the next 5 years.

I'm far from a political expert but I'm guessing Labour (at a national level) junked some promises in order to build up the massive deficit they left the country with.

Strikes me (as an ordinary bloke) that Labour were not too good at balancing the budget, so if it didn't bother you before, why is it now?

Really, that's your answer? Have you any idea of the scale of the cuts that are coming? Having not been told in the election campaign by any of the parties what they are going to cut I'd quite like to be told now rather "find out over the next five years." We've been this road with the Lib Dems at Westminster last year and it doesn't end well.

[Hibs Class]

My own area, Edinburgh West, was a big shock to me. Growing up, it was always Tory. Then, 15 or so years ago, it turned Liberal. It is now, for the first time ever I think, SNP.

That is my area too. It's quite depressing. I understand why Margaret Smith the libdem has been thrown out but her snp replacement, Colin Keir, is one of our current councillors and he is a clueless, spineless buffoon who puts party interests / instruction way ahead of the wishes or views of his constituents. If he is typical of the calibre of the new MSPs then God help us.

[Dashing Bob S]

No problem. Some of us think this is a difficult day with a potentially massive silver lining, that being the opportunity to reinvent Labour in Scotland as a dynamic political party.

I appreciate that for many posters on here the problem looks like Iain Gray - particularly since the election effectively became a ba5tardi5ed one in which the only matter for debate was a choice between him and Eck. However Gray is more of a symptom than the core problem. Labour's challenges are much more profound and they need to be addressed as part and parcel of the leadership question.

There is a job of work to be done on organisation, membership and candidate quality, fundraising, relationships with business and civic Scotland and, of course, leadership. The fundamental challenge though is in terms of purpose, vision and policies. Until Labour can become a party that challenges producer interests in public services in favour of consumer interests and can articulate a persuasive economic plan for Scotland it is going to be playing at modernisation.

As for Miliband, the shop sold us the wrong one. Take it back and change it.

One other note. This is the last time the TUBs will be able to claim that you could put a red rosette on a monkey and it would get elected in certain parts of Scotland. If and when those seats are won back it will have to be regarded as being because they will have deserved to win.

A final point. Listening to the post-match analysis on negative campaigning from Ken MacIntosh he makes a fair point. Labour were not alone in running positive and negative messages - the SNP negative personal attacks on Iain Gray have been unrelenting as evidenced by many TUBs on this thread.

Not that he makes it easy for them or anything like that. As you say yourself, Gray is more of a symptom than a core problem. The problem Labour has is that it's been producing 'symptoms' like him for around twenty years. This reinvention of Labour as 'a modern dynamic political party' can't come soon enough as myself, and evidently a lot of people, are wondering what the point of it is.

[lapsedhibee]

wee eck for scotlands first president :not worth:rockin::deal::greengrin

Can we not get a monarchy, and have our own royal weddings? :confused: :boo hoo:

[DaveF]

Really, that's your answer? Have you any idea of the scale of the cuts that are coming? Having not been told in the election campaign by any of the parties what they are going to cut I'd quite like to be told now rather "find out over the next five years." We've been this road with the Lib Dems at Westminster last year and it doesn't end well.

Jeezo - I made a point of stressing I was no political animal (unlike yourself) and so made a flippant remark - It seems to me like you need a sleep.

Still, nice to see you avoided the point about Labour paying no heed to balancing budgets when they were in UK office.......

[One Day Soon]

Not that he makes it easy for them or anything like that. As you say yourself, Gray is more of a symptom than a core problem. The problem Labour has is that it's been producing 'symptoms' like him for around twenty years. This reinvention of Labour as 'a modern dynamic political party' can't come soon enough as myself, and evidently a lot of people, are wondering what the point of it is.

That is no different from Labour arguing that there were things in the SNP record to be negative about. And let's not get carried away here. The difference in this result between an SNP win (which would be challenging enough and requiring of analysis, reflection and listening) and an SNP rout is basically the total electoral collapse of the Lib Dems to the SNP. If Labour needs serious treatment, the LDs need open heart surgery.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Can we not get a monarchy, and have our own royal weddings? :confused: :boo hoo:

got to think of the tourism right enough :hmmm: what about them two in the krankies to start the baw rolling :dunno:

[One Day Soon]

Jeezo - I made a point of stressing I was no political animal (unlike yourself) and so made a flippant remark - It seems to me like you need a sleep.

Still, nice to see you avoided the point about Labour paying no heed to balancing budgets when they were in UK office.......

Well it may seem humourless but the number of jobs and homes that are going to be on the line make it difficult for me to find it funny.

On the Labour balancing budgets point: a) Actually I am/was concerned about that. If you don't balance the books you pay a price. and b) two wrongs definitely do not make a right. But Labour is out and has been in Westminster for a year and in Scotland for four years.

With an overall majority everything that now goes right or wrong during the next five years is entirely on the hands of the SNP. I think it is fair therefore to ask what they plan to cut to balance the books and which manifesto promises are going to be dumped.

[lapsedhibee]

got to think of the tourism right enough :hmmm: what about them two in the krankies to start the baw rolling :dunno:

Plenty charisma for the job, but awkward them being already married and no children to perpetuate the bloodline. Next!

[hibsbollah]

62 now for SNP with 24 to go. A massive working majority is on the cards...the greens have done worse than expected at the regional list. Small parties havent benefitted fron PR at all this time round. A strange election all round.

[JimBHibees]

Well it may seem humourless but the number of jobs and homes that are going to be on the line make it difficult for me to find it funny.

On the Labour balancing budgets point: a) Actually I am/was concerned about that. If you don't balance the books you pay a price. and b) two wrongs definitely do not make a right. But Labour is out and has been in Westminster for a year and in Scotland for four years.

With an overall majority everything that now goes right or wrong during the next five years is entirely on the hands of the SNP. I think it is fair therefore to ask what they plan to cut to balance the books and which manifesto promises are going to be dumped.

Or they could do what Labour was going to do and blame it on the Tory coalition down south.

[JimBHibees]

62 now for SNP with 24 to go. A massive working majority is on the cards...the greens have done worse than expected at the regional list. Small parties havent benefitted fron PR at all this time round. A strange election all round.

Only need 3 more, Argyll and Bute is apparently a shoe in for SNP so they will likely need 2 more from the lists which they should get I think though will be tight.

[col02]

A very proud day for the Scottish National Party and I hope they appreciate the opportunity that all their supporters myself included have given them with regards to controlling our country without having to beg for support from any other party!

[sKipper]

Only need 3 more, Argyll and Bute is apparently a shoe in for SNP so they will likely need 2 more from the lists which they should get I think though will be tight.

The last two FPTP seats will both be SNP. Clackmannan and Kirkcaldy.

Any list seats will be a Brucie bonus.

I haven't felt this good since Archie Gemmel scored against Holland in 1978 :greengrin

[One Day Soon]

Or they could do what Labour was going to do and blame it on the Tory coalition down south.

They can now both do and say whatever they like. Well, fingers crossed that they get the numbers to do so.

But the truth is this: with an overall majority, everything that now goes right or wrong during the next five years is entirely on the hands of the SNP. The media know it, the punters know it and Eck knows it. No hiding place.

[One Day Soon]

The last two FPTP seats will both be SNP. Clackmannan and Kirkcaldy.

Any list seats will be a Brucie bonus.

I haven't felt this good since Archie Gemmel scored against Holland in 1978 :greengrin

I must say that - now we are into a big SNP win - I'm feeling pretty good about this overall majority too.

[sKipper]

Kirkcaldy confirmed as SNP.

One more required ! :not worth

[JimBHibees]

The last two FPTP seats will both be SNP. Clackmannan and Kirkcaldy.

Any list seats will be a Brucie bonus.

I haven't felt this good since Archie Gemmel scored against Holland in 1978 :greengrin

I thought Kirkcaldy was meant to be a Labour seat if there is such a thing in this election.

[JimBHibees]

The last two FPTP seats will both be SNP. Clackmannan and Kirkcaldy.

Any list seats will be a Brucie bonus.

I haven't felt this good since Archie Gemmel scored against Holland in 1978 :greengrin

Got to be said an absolutely incredible result given the system was designed not to have a majority.

[sKipper]

Got to be said an absolutely incredible result given the system was designed not to have a majority.


WE HAVE A MAJORITY !!!!!! :flag::flag:

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[One Day Soon]

I thought Kirkcaldy was meant to be a Labour seat if there is such a thing in this election.

First order of business - referendum please. Labour brought forward the Scottish Parliament Bill within one year of government in 1997. Is Alex Salmond going to do the same now that he will have the numbers to do so?

[JimBHibees]

First order of business - referendum please. Labour brought forward the Scottish Parliament Bill within one year of government in 1997. Is Alex Salmond going to do the same now that he will have the numbers to do so?

Now he has a majority he can do exactly what he wants. Dont think you will be the first number he will be phoning for advice though. :greengrin

[DaveF]

First order of business - referendum please. Labour brought forward the Scottish Parliament Bill within one year of government in 1997. Is Alex Salmond going to do the same now that he will have the numbers to do so?

Don't you want them to first govern and tell you what policies are being dumped in order to balance the budget?

You're a very impatient man :greengrin

[col02]

WE HAVE A MAJORITY !!!!!! :flag::flag:

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

:saltireflag:saltireflag:saltireflag

[One Day Soon]

Now he has a majority he can do exactly what he wants. Dont think you will be the first number he will be phoning for advice though. :greengrin

That's exactly the point. You are absolutely right. EVERYTHING he does will be his own choice. :greengrin

[One Day Soon]

Don't you want them to first govern and tell you what policies are being dumped in order to balance the budget?

You're a very impatient man :greengrin

I am a very impatient man. Referendum now please to end constitutional uncertainty ASAP so we can focus on the economy and jobs. Not a problem with an overall majority is it? After all Labour managed it.

[CropleyWasGod]

I am a very impatient man. Referendum now please to end constitutional uncertainty ASAP so we can focus on the economy and jobs. Not a problem with an overall majority is it? After all Labour managed it.

There is no constitutional uncertainty. The electorate have asked that the SNP form the next Scottish Government.

[DaveF]

I am a very impatient man. Referendum now please to end constitutional uncertainty ASAP so we can focus on the economy and jobs. Not a problem with an overall majority is it? After all Labour managed it.

You are Iain Gray and I claim my £10 :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

I am a very impatient man. Referendum now please to end constitutional uncertainty ASAP so we can focus on the economy and jobs. Not a problem with an overall majority is it? After all Labour managed it.

It sounds like you're assuming he will be cowardly and drag his feet over the referendum. I think you're wrong; with a mandate like this a referendum will come quite quickly. My money would be on early 2012.

[MountcastleHibs]

Any referendum called by the Holyrood government will be a consultative referendum and result would not be legally binding, according to David Steele. It's a reserved matter for Westminster.

[Dashing Bob S]

I don't regard myself as affiliated to any political party, but I feel proud to be Scottish today. This really was the result the country needed, to give the sense that we can chart our own course and are not just the passive victims and casualties of the games played by others.

I think the SNP should now go full steam ahead for an independence referendum. I don't think the YES vote would win it (but what do I know, and with the momentum from this result there's no telling) but win, lose or be corralled into some kind of rigged 'draw', it would establish the principle that we have the sovereign power as a nation to determine our own future. A defeat would not kill independence 'stone dead' and Labour would be daft to make the mistake of saying so again.

In the meantime, I look forward to a fun campaign, with Labour campaigning on a NO vote shoulder-to-shoulder with the Tories and the Lib Dems, just as the worst impact of their cuts starts to kick in.

It won't just be Salmond who is under the microscope.

[One Day Soon]

There is no constitutional uncertainty. The electorate have asked that the SNP form the next Scottish Government.
:faf:

[One Day Soon]

Any referendum called by the Holyrood government will be a consultative referendum and result would not be legally binding, according to David Steele. It's a reserved matter for Westminster.

Oh dear. Lord/Sir David needs a lie down.

[MountcastleHibs]

Oh dear. Lord/Sir David needs a lie down.

Indeed. He basically threatened that the Lords would deny the people of Scotland their say.

[One Day Soon]

You are Iain Gray and I claim my £10 :greengrin

You don't think the economy and jobs are our biggest challenge. What are you, a student? Eck himself went out of his way last night to stress the importance of the economy and jobs.

I doubt Iain Gray is in a fit state to be typing anything today.

[DaveF]

You don't think the economy and jobs are our biggest challenge. What are you, a student? Eck himself went out of his way last night to stress the importance of the economy and jobs.

I doubt Iain Gray is in a fit state to be typing anything today.

Calm down dear, Calm down dear........

[One Day Soon]

It sounds like you're assuming he will be cowardly and drag his feet over the referendum. I think you're wrong; with a mandate like this a referendum will come quite quickly. My money would be on early 2012.

No he's already on record saying it will be the tail end of the Parliament and that runs from 2011 to 2016. He's going to look for three years of horrendous public spending cuts, blame London, hope for an intervening Westminster election giving the Tories an overall majority and then use that perfect storm to seek a yes vote.

Nothing to do with being cowardly. He's a master tactician and its all about the tactics.

But there is no real reason why we couldn't have a referendum within a year. And we should.

[One Day Soon]

Calm down dear, Calm down dear........

Ah, I see. A David Cameron impersonator. That starts to make sense.....

[One Day Soon]

Indeed. He basically threatened that the Lords would deny the people of Scotland their say.

Just ridiculous. And about what I would expect from him.

[DaveF]

Ah, I see. A David Cameron impersonator. That starts to make sense.....

Oh for goodness sake, dry your eyes will you.

I didn't vote SNP because I wanted a referendum on Independence tomorrow. I (and it looks like plenty others too) voted for them because I felt they were the best option of those available to govern Scotland.

I'm reasonably happy they have a majority and will look on with interest to see how they handle the responsibility of managing Scotland's affairs in the next 4 to 5 years.

The only one on this thread getting their knickers in a twist over a referendum is you. Maybe if you and the rest of Labour dragged themselves away from the Independence issue and got their policy message out they might not be in the mess they find themselves in now.

I, and the rest of the electorate will deal with the 'I' question when it arrives.

Maybe you should do the same?

[hibsbollah]

No he's already on record saying it will be the tail end of the Parliament and that runs from 2011 to 2016. He's going to look for three years of horrendous public spending cuts, blame London, hope for an intervening Westminster election giving the Tories an overall majority and then use that perfect storm to seek a yes vote.

Nothing to do with being cowardly. He's a master tactician and its all about the tactics.

But there is no real reason why we couldn't have a referendum within a year. And we should.

Or alternatively he could look at last nights results, take advantage of the disarray of Scottish Labour, the unpopularity of the Westminster Coalition and the fact the cuts may already have hurt people by early 2012, and go for the jugular.

In my mind, last night changed everything. I take your point about the Lib Dem collapse, not the poor Labour performance, being the main reason for the size of the SNP victory, but its still a massive and unexpected mandate. he'd be mad not to go for it early.

[CropleyWasGod]

:faf:

So what is the uncertainty, exactly?

[One Day Soon]

Or alternatively he could look at last nights results, take advantage of the disarray of Scottish Labour, the unpopularity of the Westminster Coalition and the fact the cuts may already have hurt people by early 2012, and go for the jugular.

In my mind, last night changed everything. I take your point about the Lib Dem collapse, not the poor Labour performance, being the main reason for the size of the SNP victory, but its still a massive and unexpected mandate. he'd be mad not to go for it early.

I would vasly prefer for you to be right. But I don't think so.

[One Day Soon]

So what is the uncertainty, exactly?

Are we to be independent or are we not? The worst thing for business and the economy is uncertainty. Three or four years of is Scotland going to break from the UK? Not good.

[One Day Soon]

Oh for goodness sake, dry your eyes will you.

I didn't vote SNP because I wanted a referendum on Independence tomorrow. I (and it looks like plenty others too) voted for them because I felt they were the best option of those available to govern Scotland.

I'm reasonably happy they have a majority and will look on with interest to see how they handle the responsibility of managing Scotland's affairs in the next 4 to 5 years.

The only one on this thread getting their knickers in a twist over a referendum is you. Maybe if you and the rest of Labour dragged themselves away from the Independence issue and got their policy message out they might not be in the mess they find themselves in now.

I, and the rest of the electorate will deal with the 'I' question when it arrives.

Maybe you should do the same?

Settle.

You won't deal with the 'I' question when it arrives - Independence is now your daily/weekly diet all the way from now until the referendum, whenever that is, whether you like it or not.

[DaveF]

Settle.

You won't deal with the 'I' question when it arrives - Independence is now your daily/weekly diet all the way from now until the referendum, whenever that is, whether you like it or not.

I'm already used to it, as it's all Labour seem to talk about.

[JimBHibees]

I'm already used to it, as it's all Labour seem to talk about.

And it aint going to change now they have been horsed. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Are we to be independent or are we not? The worst thing for business and the economy is uncertainty. Three or four years of is Scotland going to break from the UK? Not good.

The certainty is that the SNP were elected, with an increased mandate, on the back of their manifesto and their record. The uncertainty that you describe has existed for the past 4 years, and still the electorate were comfortable enough to give them another term.

[hibsbollah]

Breaking news-Gray has resigned.

[One Day Soon]

And it aint going to change now they have been horsed. :greengrin

Oh you're quite wrong about that. The policies are going to be a big focus. You know: no NHS cuts, Council Tax freeze, free education,etc. Don't disappoint now...

[CropleyWasGod]

Margo's back :not worth

[One Day Soon]

Margo's back :not worth

Aye, she's a star. On that we can agree.

[One Day Soon]

The certainty is that the SNP were elected, with an increased mandate, on the back of their manifesto and their record. The uncertainty that you describe has existed for the past 4 years, and still the electorate were comfortable enough to give them another term.

No it hasn't. Your team made plain they wouldn't bring a referendum forward.

This time it isn't if but when. It is when isn't it?

[CropleyWasGod]

Aye, she's a star. On that we can agree.

Indeed.

She was on the telly this morning bemoaning the fact that 200 votes had been lost en route from Midlothian. She was willing to give away 200 votes of her own just to get the count over and done with... :not worth

[One Day Soon]

Breaking news-Gray has resigned.

Not until autumn. Who's next? When does Tavish resign?

[CropleyWasGod]

No it hasn't. Your team made plain they wouldn't bring a referendum forward.

This time it isn't if but when. It is when isn't it?

My team? :confused: You have me wrong. As I said on this, or maybe another, thread, I am an unaligned radical cynic.

[One Day Soon]

Indeed.

She was on the telly this morning bemoaning the fact that 200 votes had been lost en route from Midlothian. She was willing to give away 200 votes of her own just to get the count over and done with... :not worth

What, they completely lost 200 votes? Again? How difficult can it be?

[marinello59]

Not until autumn. Who's next? When does Tavish resign?

I am not so sure he will. His main problems were not of his own making.
Unlike Gray who managed to move from incompetence to confusion via mind numbing spells of boredom.

[Beefster]

62 now for SNP with 24 to go. A massive working majority is on the cards...the greens have done worse than expected at the regional list. Small parties havent benefitted fron PR at all this time round. A strange election all round.

Good. Patrick Harvie and his band are absolute roasters.


Breaking news-Gray has resigned.

No great shock. Despite his claims last night, it was fairly certain his colleagues would tell him to go.

[One Day Soon]

My team? :confused: You have me wrong. As I said on this, or maybe another, thread, I am an unaligned radical cynic.

That's quite a moniker. Is that People's Front or Popular People's Front?

[CropleyWasGod]

I am not so sure he will. His main problems were not of his own making.
Unlike Gray who managed to move from incompetence to confusion via mind numbing spells of boredom.

.. don't forget the sandwich shop. :greengrin