Ticket prices vs Der Hun (Merged)

[Jones28]

£27 for an adult! £27! How are Hibs expecting a capacity crowd if they are charging £27!

And £14 for a concession! Goes up to £17 in the FF upper!

Ridiculous :bitchy:

[down-the-slope]

costs me £20 and my daughter £4.47.......great value :agree:

and if you got an ST mate to intoduce you then it would ony cost £12.89 per game....




PS. As well as getting great value from ST....those who are moaning that were have not signed more players / offered new contracts / might have to sell etc etc...and have not bought ST's are part of a self fullfilling prophecy...which affects what funds are available to improve on the pitch

PPS. we can only charge away fans same as we do for similar seats in home end for one off game...so if we reduced home prices we would have to do the same for Gers fans

[flash]

Is that not the same as last season? Whilst i agree it's excessive for the product normally on show you may think people would make the effort on such an auspicious occasion.

Even if it's only to pour scorn on Yogi as so many are so desperate to do these days.

[RoYO!]

Have to say that I couldn't believe it myself. I've got a ST, but paying that vs watching it on the telly...

I'm hoping that as it's a big 'event' in the history of the club and with new season promise(!) we'll get a decent number 18k would be amazing IMO.

[magpie1892]

Those are just crazy prices. Tickets for Newcastle United start at GBP25 and although we're no great shakes that's to see a significantly superior product to the SPL.

Something's got to give. Season tickets for Schalke 04, Feyenoord and Porto all start at less than GBP150 for adults (NOT family section).

[bingo70]

Have to say that I couldn't believe it myself. I've got a ST, but paying that vs watching it on the telly...

I'm hoping that as it's a big 'event' in the history of the club and with new season promise(!) we'll get a decent number 18k would be amazing IMO.

I generally try and stick up for the club when it comes to ticket pricing as i don't think cheaper tickets generally lead to bigger crowds and we don't really have any source of regular income with us having such a pish TV deal in Scotland, however that does seem excessive, i know it's only £2 but i think there's a psychological barrier that'd stop people paying any more than £25.

That said it does put into perspective what a terrific offer the interest free monthly payment option is for a season ticket.

[bingo70]

Those are just crazy prices. Tickets for Newcastle United start at GBP25 and although we're no great shakes that's to see a significantly superior product to the SPL.

Something's got to give. Season tickets for Schalke 04, Feyenoord and Porto all start at less than GBP150 for adults (NOT family section).

They've all got terrific TV deals though, we've got to get our money from somewhere.

We've got a stand to fill now though so i agree, something will need to be done, not sure what though

[down-the-slope]

I generally try and stick up for the club when it comes to ticket pricing as i don't think cheaper tickets generally lead to bigger crowds and we don't really have any source of regular income with us having such a pish TV deal in Scotland, however that does seem excessive, i know it's only £2 but i think there's a psychological barrier that'd stop people paying any more than £25.

That said it does put into perspective what a terrific offer the interest free monthly payment option is for a season ticket.
:agree:

still time folks

[Mikey]

If anyone has the time (and can be bothered :greengrin), could you work out what Newcastle would have to charge per game to have the same team on the park, if they received the same level of TV money as Hibs do?

[RoYO!]

Someone more knowledgable about this than me can maybe elaborate, but I think there's a precedent from other teams in uk that slashing ticket prices doesn't actually work out financially, or really lead to bigger crowds.

There was afaik a surge of a couple of thou on attemdances when the west opened so let's hope that happens again.

In the past walk up fans on the day would be likely to get a fairly crap seat- behind the by line in the west or a pillar seat in the east for example. I'm hoping as there are now a couple of thousand extra- good view seats that will make a bit of a diff also.

[CropleyWasGod]

Someone more knowledgable about this than me can maybe elaborate, but I think there's a precedent from other teams in uk that slashing ticket prices doesn't actually work out financially, or really lead to bigger crowds.

.

Motherwell :agree:

[bingo70]

Someone more knowledgable about this than me can maybe elaborate, but I think there's a precedent from other teams in uk that slashing ticket prices doesn't actually work out financially, or really lead to bigger crowds.

There was afaik a surge of a couple of thou on attemdances when the west opened so let's hope that happens again.

In the past walk up fans on the day would be likely to get a fairly crap seat- behind the by line in the west or a pillar seat in the east for example. I'm hoping as there are now a couple of thousand extra- good view seats that will make a bit of a diff also.

Every team that's ever tried it has failed, with the exception of Reading i think who had some success but they don't do it now, so they obviously stopped it for a reason.

How much does it get into games that don't involve hearts or the old firm?

[RoYO!]

:agree:

still time folks

Think the payment plan offer has expired.

Hopefully there will be a bit of a boost to ST sales due to the east being open and people wanting to guarantee their seat for the year.

[scott7_0(Prague)]

£27 for an adult! £27! How are Hibs expecting a capacity crowd if they are charging £27!

And £14 for a concession! Goes up to £17 in the FF upper!

Ridiculous :bitchy:

It was the same price last season for a Cat A game, whilst I do not agree with the price v the entrainment. I really don't see why people are shouting about it now. As posted below, if you want it cheaper get a season ticket, there is a payment scheme to help with the payments. Again mentioned below, the more money through season tickets means more money on players funds oh and we have to pay for the big shiney stand we just built!


Maybe it is me, but us Hibs fans are a fickle bunch..... :agree:

[Antifa Hibs]

Prices are a *** scandal.

Lower prices doesn't mean more fans.... Think Hertz would disagree....

£27 a game, £405 a season ticket for the spl :rotflmao:

Hibs said that 75% of ST holders take advantage of concession prices, nae wonder!!!

[magpie1892]

They've all got terrific TV deals though, we've got to get our money from somewhere.

We've got a stand to fill now though so i agree, something will need to be done, not sure what though

I don't have exact figures, but the TV deal for Feyenoord especially (Eredivisie) is pennies.

[bingo70]

Prices are a *** scandal.

Lower prices doesn't mean more fans.... Think Hertz would disagree....

£27 a game, £405 a season ticket for the spl :rotflmao:

Hibs said that 75% of ST holders take advantage of concession prices, nae wonder!!!

Why would hearts disagree? How do you know they get bigger crowds because they're cheaper and not simply because unfortunately they've been the better side for the majority of the last 20 years?

Chat about scottish football being expensive and poor value for money is boring, what we need is alternative ways to increase the revenue for the club so they can reduce the prices, hopefully having the new stand there'll be more scope to do this.

If it's as simple as lowering ticket prices why haven't we done it? do you not think the board have thought about this before but made a business decision on the prices being what they are?

It's in the clubs interests to make money so why wouldn't they lower prices if they could?

[RoYO!]

It was the same price last season for a Cat A game, whilst I do not agree with the price v the entrainment. I really don't see why people are shouting about it now. As posted below, if you want it cheaper get a season ticket, there is a payment scheme to help with the payments. Again mentioned below, the more money through season tickets means more money on players funds oh and we have to pay for the big shiney stand we just built!


Maybe it is me, but us Hibs fans are a fickle bunch..... :agree:

think the money for the east was 'ring fenced' but does anyone have a figure for the amount of money still owed/ mortage for our stadium? Am I right in assuming that east mains is all paid off?

[Wembley67]

£27 for an adult! £27! How are Hibs expecting a capacity crowd if they are charging £27!

And £14 for a concession! Goes up to £17 in the FF upper!

Ridiculous :bitchy:

Scaff.

[Danderhall Hibs]

If anyone has the time (and can be bothered :greengrin), could you work out what Newcastle would have to charge per game to have the same team on the park, if they received the same level of TV money as Hibs do?

With an average gate around 4x higher than us I'd estimate £7 per ticket (£27/4).

[Hibby Bairn]

Part of the issue here though is the match time, match day and it is live on tv. To price that at the same level as if it was at 3pm on a Sat is just daft imo.

[Keith_M]

PPS. we can only charge away fans same as we do for similar seats in home end for one off game...so if we reduced home prices we would have to do the same for Gers fans


And the problem with that is...? :confused:

The game is live on TV. That is obviously going to affect the attendance, as experience has shown (why else are the OF teams almost always involved but never at home, save when they're playing each other). Add to the fact that we now have almost 3,000 extra seats and the stadium is going to look a tad empty.

IMHO, games that are live on TV should have reduced price tickets, with extra money from the TV deal going to the home club to help subsidise this. Not only does that not happen, but they actually put the prices up! This is total short-sightedness from the clubs.

[monktonharp]

the thing about the 25 quid barrier is true,I think. I know a few that are thinking :£27 ? youre jokin' ,I'll spend ma money in the boozer and watch it there! if it was £20 or even less for this particular game,the ground would be sold out,imho.,and it would also be a thank you to all Hibs fans,but that is not in RP's mindset.

[Keith_M]

It was the same price last season for a Cat A game, whilst I do not agree with the price v the entrainment. I really don't see why people are shouting about it now. As posted below, if you want it cheaper get a season ticket, there is a payment scheme to help with the payments. Again mentioned below, the more money through season tickets means more money on players funds oh and we have to pay for the big shiney stand we just built!


Maybe it is me, but us Hibs fans are a fickle bunch..... :agree:

We complained about it last season as well, so how are we fickle?

If only 8-10,000 people want to buy Season Tickets but others don't, then that's their choice. Just because someone can't (or even doesn't want to) go to every game, why penalise them with ridiculous prices?

What kind of advert is it for Scottish Football to show half-filled stadia every saturday on TV? Surely the SPL and TV companies could come up with some system to encourage more fans to these games, instead of having them sitting in pubs.

---------------------

And FWIW, I'm a Season ticket holder myself and buy one every year for both my parents as well. Doesn't stop me looking at things from a reasonable point of view for my fellow fans that don't hold STs. They're not committing some kind of crime you know.

[bingo70]

the thing about the 25 quid barrier is true,I think. I know a few that are thinking :£27 ? youre jokin' ,I'll spend ma money in the boozer and watch it there! if it was £20 or even less for this particular game,the ground would be sold out,imho.,and it would also be a thank you to all Hibs fans,but that is not in RP's mindset.

What is in his mindset then? Your suggesting that if it was cheaper it'd sell out so surely that'd be in petries interest more than having expensive tickets just to piss us off.

[monktonharp]

Why would hearts disagree? How do you know they get bigger crowds because they're cheaper and not simply because unfortunately they've been the better side for the majority of the last 20 years?

Chat about scottish football being expensive and poor value for money is boring, what we need is alternative ways to increase the revenue for the club so they can reduce the prices, hopefully having the new stand there'll be more scope to do this.

If it's as simple as lowering ticket prices why haven't we done it? do you not think the board have thought about this before but made a business decision on the prices being what they are?

It's in the clubs interests to make money so why wouldn't they lower prices if they could? business decisions dont come into it,if you are striving to keep your head above the water,while raising a family. chat about expensive things may be boring,to some folk,but in the real world,some dont have much to go around,and for some a wee peeve in the pub with the little you have,is always the winner.

[magpie1892]

Part of the issue here though is the match time, match day and it is live on tv. To price that at the same level as if it was at 3pm on a Sat is just daft imo.

Bang on. :top marks

[bingo70]

business decisions dont come into it,if you are striving to keep your head above the water,while raising a family. chat about expensive things may be boring,to some folk,but in the real world,some dont have much to go around,and for some a wee peeve in the pub with the little you have,is always the winner.

Business decisions do come into it, the club need to take care of the club as a business, we already lose money year on year excluding player sales so there would need to be some justification if we were cutting the costs of tickets when that's pretty much our only source of decent income and the only justification would be if it meant that we'd get bigger crowds to compensate for the reduced prices and it's been proven time and time again it doesn't work.

Think Keekaboo is on the right lines about reducing them for TV games and being compensated by the TV companies, how the ins and outs of that would work i'm not sure but i know the answer isn't to just reduce the prices.

[Bad Martini]

The odds are against us. The prices are steep, particularly with the game already paid for via ESPN or SKY - canny mind which. There's nae catering apart fi a wee hot dog stand or such like AND we're most likely to lose.

Couldane gie a ****.

Am there, twenty seven notes doon and a big **** off GIRFUY rangers ya bass.

GLORY GLORY

[magpie1892]

Business decisions do come into it, the club need to take care of the club as a business, we already lose money year on year excluding player sales so there would need to be some justification if we were cutting the costs of tickets when that's pretty much our only source of decent income and the only justification would be if it meant that we'd get bigger crowds to compensate for the reduced prices and it's been proven time and time again it doesn't work.

Think Keekaboo is on the right lines about reducing them for TV games and being compensated by the TV companies, how the ins and outs of that would work i'm not sure but i know the answer isn't to just reduce the prices.

Dynamic pricing structure? Easy to do these days and application of mathematical models means that selling every seat is doable.

Reduced prices don't work? I'd question that. In 1992 Newcastle played an FA Cup game that was abandoned at half-time due to fog. The re-scheduled game was half the price to get in and the crowd doubled.

[scott7_0(Prague)]

We complained about it last season as well, so how are we fickle?



I was talking in general, not just about prices.

[LancashireHibby]

£27 seems par for the course as far as I'm concerned, the problem comes with the daft kick off time :grr:

[bingo70]

Dynamic pricing structure? Easy to do these days and application of mathematical models means that selling every seat is doable.

Reduced prices don't work? I'd question that. In 1992 Newcastle played an FA Cup game that was abandoned at half-time due to fog. The re-scheduled game was half the price to get in and the crowd doubled.

why don't we do it then? If it'd sell more tickets and benefit the club why wouldn't we reduce ticket prices?

Do you seriously not think the club put a lot of research and work into the prices to make sure they're maximising our income at the same time as getting in as many people as we can.

It's clearly not a hibs issue here as all clubs are the same so if it was as simple as you say why aren't clubs all over the country falling over themselves to put in 'dynamic pricing structures' and lower ticket prices?

[monktonharp]

What is in his mindset then? Your suggesting that if it was cheaper it'd sell out so surely that'd be in petries interest more than having expensive tickets just to piss us off. Petrie is driven by financial gain,whereas we,the fans just want to see our team,hopefully doing well;.if we cant actually afford it we dont go,especially when our tv has it on anyway. simples. I think he's taken a gamble on this one,expecting us to fill the ground because it's the first game in our shiney new ground. he will lose.:yawn:

[Hibs On Tour]

Two-min calculations:

Assume 10000 ST's

Crowd of 15000 @ £27 = 5000 @ £27 = £135000 on top of ST

Make the price £20 and you only need 6750 to make the same dosh [plus you'd make more on shop/food etc]

Say that dropping the price to £20 meant a jump in the crowd to 18000 = 8000 @ £20 = £160000 = £25000 more money on the 'gate' plus more shop and food spend...

But as another poster says, sure the club will have factored all this in. I also recall many many business theory publications that say increasing prices by 1% has no effect other than increasing profit. Theory being that small increases lead to no discernable decrease in demand but that reducing prices greatly increases the pressure to increase sales by a reasonable amount to get back to where you were...

[flash]

Petrie is driven by financial gain,whereas we,the fans just want to see our team,hopefully doing well;.if we cant actually afford it we dont go,especially when our tv has it on anyway. simples. I think he's taken a gamble on this one,expecting us to fill the ground because it's the first game in our shiney new ground. he will lose.:yawn:

How has he taken a gamble by charging the same price as we always do against Rangers?

[Jones28]

I have a season ticket already but what about walk up fans who may be put off by those prices, when they could spend the same money in a pub on a meal and drink.

[monktonharp]

Two-min calculations:

Assume 10000 ST's

Crowd of 15000 @ £27 = 5000 @ £27 = £135000 on top of ST

Make the price £20 and you only need 6750 to make the same dosh [plus you'd make more on shop/food etc]

Say that dropping the price to £20 meant a jump in the crowd to 18000 = 8000 @ £20 = £160000 = £25000 more money on the 'gate' plus more shop and food spend...

But as another poster says, sure the club will have factored all this in. I also recall many many business theory publications that say increasing prices by 1% has no effect other than increasing profit. Theory being that small increases lead to no discernable decrease in demand but that reducing prices greatly increases the pressure to increase sales by a reasonable amount to get back to where you were...you forgot to factor in,the Hibernian fans will feel that they are being f/ckd in the ass,whereas the club will think:f/k it,let's make dosh fae the hun,who'll fill their end anyway.

[bingo70]

Two-min calculations:

Assume 10000 ST's

Crowd of 15000 @ £27 = 5000 @ £27 = £135000 on top of ST

Make the price £20 and you only need 6750 to make the same dosh [plus you'd make more on shop/food etc]

Say that dropping the price to £20 meant a jump in the crowd to 18000 = 8000 @ £20 = £160000 = £25000 more money on the 'gate' plus more shop and food spend...

But as another poster says, sure the club will have factored all this in. I also recall many many business theory publications that say increasing prices by 1% has no effect other than increasing profit. Theory being that small increases lead to no discernable decrease in demand but that reducing prices greatly increases the pressure to increase sales by a reasonable amount to get back to where you were...

I think you underestimate how difficuilt it would be to get another 6750 people through the gates, we should be looking to do that over the next 3 or 4 years by continually improving the squad every year and i don't believe we woud get close to doing that by reducing prices by about £7.

One criticism ive got of the club about this though is that we're not selling tickets to people that aren't on the database, there's about a bajillion tourists in town just now, we've got to be trying to tap into that market, i can understand that rule if it was a big end of season game for rangers but so what if a few stray huns end up in our end, chuck them out, thats why the police are there.

[Barney McGrew]

With an average gate around 4x higher than us I'd estimate £7 per ticket (£27/4).

That would assume that they were paying the same for their players as we do though.

If they were funding their current wage bill with the TV money we get, then their prices would need to be a wee bit higher, which is what I think Mikey was getting at :wink:

[Jones28]

Scaff.

Care to elaborate? :greengrin

[bingo70]

you forgot to factor in,the Hibernian fans will feel that they are being f/ckd in the ass,whereas the club will think:f/k it,let's make dosh fae the hun,who'll fill their end anyway.

Then they need to have a look at how much profit hibs make every season from ticket sales.

If people can't afford to go or think there's better value for there money else where thats absolutely fine, no problem with that at all, if i didn't have a S.T i'd probably be one of them, however to try and take some sort of stance would be plain stupid and a bit of a piss excuse IMO.

[LancashireHibby]

One criticism ive got of the club about this though is that we're not selling tickets to people that aren't on the database, there's about a bajillion tourists in town just now, we've got to be trying to tap into that market, i can understand that rule if it was a big end of season game for rangers but so what if a few stray huns end up in our end, chuck them out, thats why the police are there.

I agree about the tourists and maybe the best way of making an exception to it would be to advertise in the tourist brochures etc that you can buy match tickets (maybe even offering a discount) upon production of one of the open-topped bus tickets or admission to the castle etc - can't be much chance of Mr Hun of Hunsville clocking that one to get around the restrictions, I'm sure?

[monktonharp]

How has he taken a gamble by charging the same price as we always do against Rangers? my point being,and i'm not trying to be clever or funny,there could be a huge amount of empty seats,tv ,Sunday, time, and lastly price. it is an opinion mate,and I hope i'm miles wrong,when I go to my seat and dont have space to clamber over the empty ones.

[Barney McGrew]

Reduced prices don't work? I'd question that. In 1992 Newcastle played an FA Cup game that was abandoned at half-time due to fog. The re-scheduled game was half the price to get in and the crowd doubled.

So they made the same money that they did from the first game then?

[monktonharp]

So they made the same money that they did from the first game then?what would you prefer,a full Away end and a half full Home end.................or,a full ground?

[LancashireHibby]

The odd gimmick will boost the crowd, but reducing them over a longer term just leads to the crowds levelling out as they would anyway as people expect the prices to remain low etc - I've experienced that sort of thing first hand.

[Borders Hibby]

Two-min calculations:

Assume 10000 ST's

Crowd of 15000 @ £27 = 5000 @ £27 = £135000 on top of ST

Make the price £20 and you only need 6750 to make the same dosh [plus you'd make more on shop/food etc]

Say that dropping the price to £20 meant a jump in the crowd to 18000 = 8000 @ £20 = £160000 = £25000 more money on the 'gate' plus more shop and food spend...

But as another poster says, sure the club will have factored all this in. I also recall many many business theory publications that say increasing prices by 1% has no effect other than increasing profit. Theory being that small increases lead to no discernable decrease in demand but that reducing prices greatly increases the pressure to increase sales by a reasonable amount to get back to where you were...

But you would lose 3500 x £7 for the rangers fans.

[Woody1985]

:agree:

still time folks

When does this expire? I'd consider getting one for my grandad and I this season but might be playing Saturday football so don't know if I could make it. I suppose most games aren't on a Saturday now though (I will definitely be playing Sunday football)!

As it would be an adult ST and a concession someone could also benefit and/or split the ST introduction amount. I'll get a look at the Hibs site when I get home.


EDIT; Payment plan is closed for this year. Will be PATG this season again.

[Woody1985]

Think the payment plan offer has expired.

Hopefully there will be a bit of a boost to ST sales due to the east being open and people wanting to guarantee their seat for the year.

Should have read down a bit before posting.

[jgl07]

Dynamic pricing structure? Easy to do these days and application of mathematical models means that selling every seat is doable.

Reduced prices don't work? I'd question that. In 1992 Newcastle played an FA Cup game that was abandoned at half-time due to fog. The re-scheduled game was half the price to get in and the crowd doubled.
Price reductions are a good idea for single meetings as a promotion but do not work in the long run.

Motherwell slashed prices brought in the likes of John Spencer and there average crowd was no higher. They ended up in administration.

[PaulSmith]

Petrie is driven by financial gain,whereas we,the fans just want to see our team,hopefully doing well;.if we cant actually afford it we dont go,especially when our tv has it on anyway. simples. I think he's taken a gamble on this one,expecting us to fill the ground because it's the first game in our shiney new ground. he will lose.:yawn:

The day that we don't get a chairman trying to maximise income to supplement the team on the park is the day that they should resign.

The fans just don't want to see the team though, they want to see a winning Hibs team and this costs money which unfortunately means an extra £2 or £3 on the price of a ticket.

Anyways, it costs me £22.5 per home game at Easter Road. Interest free and comes of a DD scheme which ends in December. Simples.

[RoYO!]

You can ask Mick McCarthy how many times he thinks Petrie has 'lost' :wink:

[magpie1892]

So they made the same money that they did from the first game then?

Precisely.

In fact, in doubling the gate the club probably made more money through pies, programmes etc. and, I dare say, there were a fair few 'SJP virgins' that night and it's a nonsense to suggest that not one ever came back.

I see the idea of dynamic pricing has been attacked on the basis that as no-one is doing it (an erroneous standpoint - Roma stagger their prices over time to kick-off but their a two-bit outfit and we shouldn't aspire to that level of mediocrity) but I don't know why people would claim that reduced pricing doesn't mean that a bigger gate can't be achieved. I've seen it happen.

[LancashireHibby]

Newcastle had the potential support for it to work though - although we have a huge latent support when it comes to cup finals and the like, I'm not sure that can be translated week-in, week-out. I think our best potential of any sort of goldmine is to do more to tap in to the tourist market.

[magpie1892]

Price reductions are a good idea for single meetings as a promotion but do not work in the long run.

Motherwell slashed prices brought in the likes of John Spencer and there average crowd was no higher. They ended up in administration.

Not sure at what point I suggested reducing prices for the whole season. I did quote some prices for season tickets at other clubs on the continent and said that GBP27 for the huns was crazy.

I stand by that and suggest, as others here have done, that asking for that amount of money for a non-Sat 3pm game that's on TV is a wee bit embarrassing to be honest. If there is more than an single seat unoccupied however...

Not sure I did. I think it might be worth looking again at asking GBP

[bingo70]

Precisely.

In fact, in doubling the gate the club probably made more money through pies, programmes etc. and, I dare say, there were a fair few 'SJP virgins' that night and it's a nonsense to suggest that not one ever came back.

I see the idea of dynamic pricing has been attacked on the basis that as no-one is doing it (an erroneous standpoint - Roma stagger their prices over time to kick-off but their a two-bit outfit and we shouldn't aspire to that level of mediocrity) but I don't know why people would claim that reduced pricing doesn't mean that a bigger gate can't be achieved. I've seen it happen.

Aye, once in 1992, how come the stadium was only half full/empty in the first place anyway? Thought Newcastle had the most loyal and passionate fans in the world :greengrin

Seriously though, your point has been answered earlier in the thread, gimmicks like the one you mention work for one off games but not as a long term solution.

[Barney McGrew]

what would you prefer,a full Away end and a half full Home end.................or,a full ground?

A full ground, obviously. But apart from one example from 18 years ago, no-one has given any example of a team in the UK who have consistently seen higher crowds and income from cutting gate prices.


In fact, in doubling the gate the club probably made more money through pies, programmes etc.

Hibs outsource their catering IIRC, so they wouldn't make anything extra from selling pies. Any extra money they did take in would have to be offset by having to have more Police and stewards to cope with a bigger crowd anyway.

[magpie1892]

Newcastle had the potential support for it to work though - although we have a huge latent support when it comes to cup finals and the like, I'm not sure that can be translated week-in, week-out. I think our best potential of any sort of goldmine is to do more to tap in to the tourist market.

Like I said above, I didn't at any point suggest it should be a tenner every week.

Tourists are not interested in the SPL, forget it.

Tourists will watch the London clubs while they are there to see what all the fuss is about but think again if some yanks or some chinless Oxfordshire prick up for the fringe will go anywhere near Easter Road.

[magpie1892]

Aye, once in 1992, how come the stadium was only half full/empty in the first place anyway? Thought Newcastle had the most loyal and passionate fans in the world :greengrin

Seriously though, your point has been answered earlier in the thread, gimmicks like the one you mention work for one off games but not as a long term solution.

For the, what, fourth time, at no point did I stipulate that this should be a weekly thing. Dynamic pricing could see some people paying more than GBP27 but I maintain that this price for a Sun. kick off at an odd hour with live transmission is too much and an opportunity missed.

[magpie1892]

Hibs outsource their catering IIRC, so they wouldn't make anything extra from selling pies. Any extra money they did take in would have to be offset by having to have more Police and stewards to cope with a bigger crowd anyway.

You're really a glass half-empty sort of fellow, aren't you? More pies sold means that Hibs can ask for more money from the contractor. Also, policing and stewarding for a 20,000 crowd is not going to be double that if only 10,000 show up (fixed and variable costs - simple stuff).

It's all very negative, that an enhanced gate - even if Hibs made not one penny more - could be viewed as anything other than a huge plus. I can list the reasons why if you're interested.

[LancashireHibby]

Tourists are not interested in the SPL, forget it.

Tourists will watch the London clubs while they are there to see what all the fuss is about but think again if some yanks or some chinless Oxfordshire prick up for the fringe will go anywhere near Easter Road.

In which case I can disprove your theory completely as the whole reason I became a Hibs fan was after catching a glimpse of Easter Road 15 years from Calton Hill. Even if we got 1% of those attending the Fringe to come to a game then it'd see a significant increase in crowds and income.

[bingo70]

Like I said above, I didn't at any point suggest it should be a tenner every week.

Tourists are not interested in the SPL, forget it.

Tourists will watch the London clubs while they are there to see what all the fuss is about but think again if some yanks or some chinless Oxfordshire prick up for the fringe will go anywhere near Easter Road.

Thats nonsense, people from football loving countries all over the world are in Edinburgh just now, i think there's quite a few that would like to experience football in a different environment. Take that into the season and every week there's hundreds of stag do's in edinburgh yet we're stopping them from coming to games because they're not on the database, IMO thats crazy.

Doesn't matter if they're into the SPL, i've been to a game in Switzerland and i can assure you neither me or my old man really didn't give a monkeys about the swiss league.

I thought we were talking about prices for category 'a' games, our only chance of getting full houses, if you were doing it solely for this game then we were getting our wires crossed.

[BT58]

Been a season ticket holder for many a year, but alas
due to bad health, I can't afford one this
season, jeez in this day and age, why can't hibs have this pay up scheme yearly.
I will be getting £60 a week, I'm certainly not gonna spend half of this when the games live on the box
Looks like I will have to miss the big games, can't see hibs having many sell outs this season

[Barney McGrew]

You're really a glass half-empty sort of fellow, aren't you? More pies sold means that Hibs can ask for more money from the contractor. Also, policing and stewarding for a 20,000 crowd is not going to be double that if only 10,000 show up (fixed and variable costs - simple stuff).

It's all very negative, that an enhanced gate - even if Hibs made not one penny more - could be viewed as anything other than a huge plus. I can list the reasons why if you're interested.

Not really, I just don't buy all this crap about thousands extra being added to crowds if we drop the prices slightly.

As for the comment about the Police costs doubling, I didn't mention anything about them doubling. You used an example of Newcastle doubling their crowd, I pointed out that they made the same money - if Hibs get a bigger crowd, then they need more Police and it costs them more money. Whether that's ten extra coppers, twenty extra or double the number, it would still cost more.

This is all theoretical anyway, because as has been said time and again apart from your one example no-one else has come up with any other UK club that has consistently seen increased gates and income through dropping prices. Until someone does, all of this is just conjecture.

What level do you think the price should be for the game then?

[down-the-slope]

We complained about it last season as well, so how are we fickle?

If only 8-10,000 people want to buy Season Tickets but others don't, then that's their choice. Just because someone can't (or even doesn't want to) go to every game, why penalise them with ridiculous prices?

What kind of advert is it for Scottish Football to show half-filled stadia every saturday on TV? Surely the SPL and TV companies could come up with some system to encourage more fans to these games, instead of having them sitting in pubs.

---------------------

And FWIW, I'm a Season ticket holder myself and buy one every year for both my parents as well. Doesn't stop me looking at things from a reasonable point of view for my fellow fans that don't hold STs. They're not committing some kind of crime you know.

The alternative view is that we advantage those who support the club the most...and pay their money up front :rolleyes:

[cockneymike]

I see the idea of dynamic pricing has been attacked on the basis that as no-one is doing it (an erroneous standpoint - Roma stagger their prices over time to kick-off but their a two-bit outfit and we shouldn't aspire to that level of mediocrity) but I don't know why people would claim that reduced pricing doesn't mean that a bigger gate can't be achieved. I've seen it happen.

So is your idea of dynamic pricing a bit like a reverse auction type thing. Sell the first 1000 tickets at £18 say, then once they're gone, next 2000 @ £19, then so on, thereby encouraging people to get in early, and in the end the last few tickets are about £30?

Bit like train or plane fares?

[paxtonhibby]

Those are just crazy prices. Tickets for Newcastle United start at GBP25 and although we're no great shakes that's to see a significantly superior product to the SPL.

Something's got to give. Season tickets for Schalke 04, Feyenoord and Porto all start at less than GBP150 for adults (NOT family section).

25 quid to get humped most weeks.......nah,rather watch the Hibees thanks.

[down-the-slope]

Petrie is driven by financial gain,whereas we,the fans just want to see our team,hopefully doing well;.if we cant actually afford it we dont go,especially when our tv has it on anyway. simples. I think he's taken a gamble on this one,expecting us to fill the ground because it's the first game in our shiney new ground. he will lose.:yawn:


Horlicks..i'll see your yawn and :yawn::yawn:

[magpie1892]

So is your idea of dynamic pricing a bit like a reverse auction type thing. Sell the first 1000 tickets at £18 say, then once they're gone, next 2000 @ £19, then so on, thereby encouraging people to get in early, and in the end the last few tickets are about £30?

Bit like train or plane fares?

Yeah, I guess. Roma do it. Their public sale starts very cheap (and they are on the telly most weeks) and goes through two bands before matchday when, if it's not sold out then it's about 25 euro for the Curva/s.

[StevieC]

Part of the issue here though is the match time, match day and it is live on tv. To price that at the same level as if it was at 3pm on a Sat is just daft imo.

The trouble is that a Cat. A game is a Cat. A game regardless of when it is played. The club set the prices at the start of the season based on Saturday 3pm kick offs, after that it's outwith their hands.

[StevieC]

25 quid to get humped most weeks.......nah,rather watch the Hibees thanks.

I'm not biting.

:greengrin

[magpie1892]

25 quid to get humped most weeks.......nah,rather watch the Hibees thanks.

Most weeks? Aye, the club with the 6th best points per game ratio in the history of the Premiership. You're confusing us with Sunderland but, having visited Chirnside, I can only guess that living there severely *****s you up mentally.

[magpie1892]

I'm not biting.

:greengrin

Sorry Steve, I let the side down.

[paxtonhibby]

I'm not biting.

:greengrin

Bugger,thought one of you Geordies might :boo hoo:

[down-the-slope]

Most weeks? Aye, the club with the 6th best points per game ratio in the history of the Premiership. You're confusing us with Sunderland but, having visited Chirnside, I can only guess that living there severely *****s you up mentally.
:a bite:


:wink:

[paxtonhibby]

Most weeks? Aye, the club with the 6th best points per game ratio in the history of the Premiership. You're confusing us with Sunderland but, having visited Chirnside, I can only guess that living there severely *****s you up mentally.

Ah,got one after all.Woo Hoo:bye:

[magpie1892]

Not really, I just don't buy all this crap about thousands extra being added to crowds if we drop the prices slightly.

As for the comment about the Police costs doubling, I didn't mention anything about them doubling. You used an example of Newcastle doubling their crowd, I pointed out that they made the same money - if Hibs get a bigger crowd, then they need more Police and it costs them more money. Whether that's ten extra coppers, twenty extra or double the number, it would still cost more.

This is all theoretical anyway, because as has been said time and again apart from your one example no-one else has come up with any other UK club that has consistently seen increased gates and income through dropping prices. Until someone does, all of this is just conjecture.

What level do you think the price should be for the game then?

You've missed my point about the policing costs but no matter.

In response to your last question, I think that the previously mentioned psychological figure of GBP25 should not be breached for any Cat A game on telly. Or any Cat A game to be honest and it's not true (Steve) to say that Hibs can't change prices on a match by match basis.

I strongly get the feeling that there are going to be a good number of empty seats for the hun game and that's a real opportunity missed when opening a new stand if nothing else...

[cammy1969]

so some 1 buys a season ticket that works out at about £22 a game and people want the club to charge £20 for this game is the whole point of a season ticket not to pay up front so you pay less for the games

[Barney McGrew]

In response to your last question, I think that the previously mentioned psychological figure of GBP25 should not be breached for any Cat A game on telly. Or any Cat A game to be honest and it's not true (Steve) to say that Hibs can't change prices on a match by match basis.

I strongly get the feeling that there are going to be a good number of empty seats for the hun game and that's a real opportunity missed when opening a new stand if nothing else...

Going by the equivalent game last season (Celtc in August, on a Sunday, early kick off) we got a crowd of just under 14,500. If you assume we have 8000 season ticket holders attending, then that's 6500 tickets at £2 off as we have to charge the away fans the same price for an equivalent seat according to SFA rules. We'd need to sell over 500 tickets more to Hibs supporters to make up the shortfall (assuming that the Rangers fans will, as Celtic did, sell their end out)

I don't believe that a £2 difference would put an extra 500 on the gate.

[StevieC]

Aye, once in 1992, how come the stadium was only half full/empty in the first place anyway?

Because in 1992 they were playing the worst football they had ever played and staring at relegation to the old 3rd division for the first time in their history.

Ah, I remember that season so fondly.

:greengrin

[magpie1892]

Going by the equivalent game last season (Celtc in August, on a Sunday Early kick off) we got a crowd of just under 14,500. If you assume we have 8000 season ticket holders attending, then that's 6500 tickets at £2 off as we have to charge the away fans the same price for an equivalent seat according to SFA rules. We'd need to sell over 500 tickets more to Hibs supporters to make up the shortfall (assuming that the Rangers fans will, as Celtic did, sell their end out)

I don't believe that a £2 difference would put an extra 500 on the gate.

I don't think it's outwith the realms of possibility and, as I insinuated further up, the extra bodies means other tangible expenditure and - vitally - goodwill...

[magpie1892]

so some 1 buys a season ticket that works out at about £22 a game and people want the club to charge £20 for this game is the whole point of a season ticket not to pay up front so you pay less for the games

You think that is the only reason to buy a season ticket? Are you serious? I have a season ticket for SJP. I don't go to every game (work, and I'm also currently in Qatar) but I've been in the same seat since the stand I am in went up. It's a good seat and I'm with friends of 20+ years.

You not got any mates?! No preference about where you sit?!

[magpie1892]

Because in 1992 they were playing the worst football they had ever played and staring at relegation to the old 3rd division for the first time in their history.

Ah, I remember that season so fondly.

:greengrin

And in the game in question, bounced out of the FA Cup on pens to the might of Bournemouth.

Happy. Days.

[Brizo]

Televised fitba at inconvenient times has imho killed the chances of us filling our ground or any other club filling there grounds for such fixtures (with the exception of the uglies derby). Niether of the OF are the attraction they once were when the likes of Laudrup and Larsen were playing and to pay £27 to watch the likes of Lafferty and Samaras .... We cant even sell out vs the Hertz where familiarity of 4 games a season means theyve lost a lot of the special occasion element they once had.

What might be worth trying and I dont know if this would need to be a league wide SPL thing would be to scrap the two tier Cat A £27 and Cat B £22 ? pricing structure and have a standard £22 for all games. My understandings been that the Cat A pricing was for extra policing but surely like penalties :greengrin these costs even themselves out over the season as you'll need less than average polis vs Hamilton and more than average vs Hertz.

It might not work as guys will still say they can watch in the pub for the price of a couple of pints but it might be worth a wee experiment.

[Hamish]

Just for comparison, at White Hart Lane cheapest ticket is £30 quid. Most expensive is a mind blowing £76. They split their matches into 3 categories. Think our friends across the city do something similar??

[Hibs On Tour]

I think you underestimate how difficuilt it would be to get another 6750 people through the gates, we should be looking to do that over the next 3 or 4 years by continually improving the squad every year and i don't believe we woud get close to doing that by reducing prices by about £7.

One criticism ive got of the club about this though is that we're not selling tickets to people that aren't on the database, there's about a bajillion tourists in town just now, we've got to be trying to tap into that market, i can understand that rule if it was a big end of season game for rangers but so what if a few stray huns end up in our end, chuck them out, thats why the police are there.

Its not another 6750 people though - its another 1750 people. You're looking at the potential difference in overall crowd if you reduced the costs. For a game against the OF we *are* gonna get a min of 15000 through the gates aren't we?

FWIW, I am in favour of investing the dosh in a better team on the park - that is the *only* thing that will long-term increase the crowds at ER and I am 100% sure that Rod and everyone else at Hibs is already well aware of this...

[cammy1969]

You think that is the only reason to buy a season ticket? Are you serious? I have a season ticket for SJP. I don't go to every game (work, and I'm also currently in Qatar) but I've been in the same seat since the stand I am in went up. It's a good seat and I'm with friends of 20+ years.

You not got any mates?! No preference about where you sit?!
did i say it was the only reason people bought season tickets but if you start to charge less for walk up fans you would have less people buying season tickets imo ps if i had a season ticket for sjp in wouldnt go every week either:wink:

[Hibs On Tour]

But you would lose 3500 x £7 for the rangers fans.

Naw we wouldnae! The 3500 are included in the overall figures. 10000 ST holders - clearly none of them are gonna be away fans eh? The balance of the 15-18000 is mixed between home and away support. So it would be either 5000 @ X price versus 8000 @ Y price. Simples.

All just pie in the sky anyway.

Problem isn't the ticket prices [although in an ideal world everyone could afford to go whenever they wanted]. Its the product on the park. Improve that and the crowds go up, regardless of price. Simples.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I agree about the tourists and maybe the best way of making an exception to it would be to advertise in the tourist brochures etc that you can buy match tickets (maybe even offering a discount) upon production of one of the open-topped bus tickets or admission to the castle etc - can't be much chance of Mr Hun of Hunsville clocking that one to get around the restrictions, I'm sure?

Bloody good idea in my opinion. The only time the uglies or Yams would take advantage is in April or May with something to play for so we could run the scheme up to the end of March perhaps.

As a tourist I would have no problem going to a game abroad, no matter what I thought of the league I was going to watch. Also I know at least 3 folk who have been to see baseball in the U.S and in reality they couldnt give a toss about the game.

We are missing a trick here.

[Hibs On Tour]

The trouble is that a Cat. A game is a Cat. A game regardless of when it is played. The club set the prices at the start of the season based on Saturday 3pm kick offs, after that it's outwith their hands.

Questions:

Cat A games - do we sell them out or not? [as a general rule of thumb]
How much do Hibs get as their share of the TV deal?

If we *don't* sell out our Cat A games [which are the only ones likely to be televised and/or have dates/times changed really] then - again as a general rule of thumb - what 'hit' do we take on the gate in terms of numbers short of full capacity?

Should be simple therefore to actually work out whether the TV deal actually benefits us as a club or not. Financially, at least.

Just some random thoughts likes...

[down-the-slope]

in recents months when games have been on at ER I have noticed a marked increase in tourists already...particularly in the shop buying club gear etc so there is demand...
to milk this maybe ads with vouchers in Easyjet / Ryanair in flights mags....kiosk in city centre couple of days before home games selling tickets for matches...:rolleyes:

[Hibby Bairn]

If we are setting fixed pricing structures before the season starts and we know when games are being played then that is crazy. There are so many variables that would affect demand that the club should look at each game individually and then be more imaginative about how we fill the stadium. This should also include additional income from those inside on match day (thereby giving a benefit from a more modest entrance price). For example people selling food, drink, programmes in the stands before and during the game and at HT.

We need someone from Easyjet, Hilton or American Football on our Board.

[Broken Gnome]

The only reason this single ticket pricing has provoked so much discussion is because of circumstance. Everyone envisaged the first home game with the new East as being full(ish) and probably at capacity considering who the opposition are. Now we're faced with the grimmer reality that some 6,000 tickets will need to be shifted for a game that kicks off on a Sunday lunchtime and will be live on TV. Yet still cost £27 or £17 for a kid.

Hell, it would be nice if Hibs could make it £15 for all and guarantee the ground is full. There's numerous reasons for that not being a long-term solution, and more than likely plenty other reasons why the ticket prices for this sole game couldn't have been reworked. It's just a bit of a disappointment all round to be honest. You'd probably need Sauzee there now to fill the Hibs end...

[KdyHby]

Costing me £30 to see Leeds v Millwall on 21 August, 1230 kick off - makes the Hibs / Huns tickets seem vfm

[capitals_finest]

£27!!!!!!!!!:bitchy:

Looks like i ll be getting sky this year.

[down-the-slope]

£27!!!!!!!!!:bitchy:

Looks like i ll be getting sky this year.


presume you don't goto games then :rolleyes: its been £27 for past 3 years for Cat A matches...but feel free to add to SKYs coffers to pay overinflated monies to the EPL while complaining that Hibs havent spent enough on the squad

[heretoday]

It's not worth it. I'll have to seriously consider getting a season ticket.

But I don't necessarily want to go to every game.

When I held a ST many moons ago I was able to loan it to various people on the occasions that I couldn't attend myself. There was never a problem.

Are there more stringent checks now?

[hibs0666]

£27!!!!!!!!!:bitchy:

Looks like i ll be getting sky this year.

£32 a month (including ESPN) for 9 months to see maybe 10 Hibs games doesn't really strike me as a bargain. :bitchy:

Be better buying a season ticket.

[down-the-slope]

It's not worth it. I'll have to seriously consider getting a season ticket.

But I don't necessarily want to go to every game.

When I held a ST many moons ago I was able to loan it to various people on the occasions that I couldn't attend myself. There was never a problem.

Are there more stringent checks now?

As long as they have your card and are same sex should be no problem at all...know plenty who for similar reason shard an ST

[StevieC]

You think that is the only reason to buy a season ticket? Are you serious? I have a season ticket for SJP. I don't go to every game but I've been in the same seat since the stand I am in went up. It's a good seat and I'm with friends of 20+ years.

Same here.

Given the amount of games I will miss during a season having a season ticket works out to be more expensive than paying walk-up prices (for both Hibs and Newcastle), but there's more to a season ticket than saving a bit of cash.

[StevieC]

Questions:

Cat A games - do we sell them out or not? [as a general rule of thumb]
How much do Hibs get as their share of the TV deal?

If we *don't* sell out our Cat A games [which are the only ones likely to be televised and/or have dates/times changed really] then - again as a general rule of thumb - what 'hit' do we take on the gate in terms of numbers short of full capacity?

Should be simple therefore to actually work out whether the TV deal actually benefits us as a club or not. Financially, at least.

Just some random thoughts likes...

Hearts games likely to be sold out, but rarely sell out OF games.
Might be 2-3,000 under capacity, which might equate to a loss of £30k-40k in terms of gate money. Not sure of exact figure but I have it in my head that home teams pick up around £40k from televised games. However, we do also get an additional share of TV money regardless of televised games.

Just some random answers likes...

:wink:

[PaulSmith]

Hearts games likely to be sold out, but rarely sell out OF games.
Might be 2-3,000 under capacity, which might equate to a loss of £30k-40k in terms of gate money. Not sure of exact figure but I have it in my head that home teams pick up around £40k from televised games. However, we do also get an additional share of TV money regardless of televised games.

Just some random answers likes...

:wink:

Pretty sure there is no TV paid as such for televised live games..the SPL site will confirm but I'm sure that there is an equal split for c40% of the total TV money then the rest (60%) is split as per final SPL standings.

[down-the-slope]

Hearts games likely to be sold out, but rarely sell out OF games.
Might be 2-3,000 under capacity, which might equate to a loss of £30k-40k in terms of gate money. Not sure of exact figure but I have it in my head that home teams pick up around £40k from televised games. However, we do also get an additional share of TV money regardless of televised games.

Just some random answers likes...

:wink:

I don't - like others - take kids to OF games...so their ST seat is empty....and we don't count that unlike some clubs

[StevieC]

Pretty sure there is no TV paid as such for televised live games...

You may be right. I seem to have it in my head though that the home team in a televised game received additional TV money. Is this not the reason that the Old Firm are only allowed 2 televised home games in order to spread the money about a bit? Wasn't Strachan moaning about this last season and trying to get more home games televised (or was that down to Internet rights?)? I always thought that it was to make up for the lower crowd but it may well have been part of an old TV agreement that is no longer in place.

[Antifa Hibs]

Anyone who doesn't think the SPL is to expensive must no be right in the heid.

I've seen games in Scotland, France, Spain, Germany, Slovakia, Italy and Poland and the dearest game was the SPL, and the worst standard, atmosphere etc aswell.

I've been to 99% of Hibs games since the last decade, had an ST for about 20 years now and will continue to go to every game, it is still a *** ripoff though.

Hibs v Celtic 1991, ticket was £8. Going by the rate of inflation it should now cost £13ish, it does infact cost £27. Thats a *** ripoff, make no mistake.

Wether lower prices would or wouldn't add to the gate, wether we need to or not be charging theseextraordinate prices, the SPL, for what standard of play we get is an absulute ripoff, thats a fact.

£27 for Rankin, Nish, David Wier, Kenny Miller etc. :faf:
That would take a minimum wage worker 5-6 hours to earn that! A disgrace, some people are trying to justify that aswell.

I bet there are some on here trying to justify the £27 who wouldn't step foot in Ibrox or Parkhead as its 'to dear'.

[LancashireHibby]

What you have to bear in mind though is that player's wages have also increased multiple times ahead of inflation - the simple answer would be to stop paying daft wages and prices will drop as a consequence, but all that will happen is one or two clubs will try and buck the trend and continue to pay out big wages, which then prompts every other club to do the same in an effort to keep up...

[down-the-slope]

Anyone who doesn't think the SPL is to expensive must no be right in the heid.

I've seen games in Scotland, France, Spain, Germany, Slovakia, Italy and Poland and the dearest game was the SPL, and the worst standard, atmosphere etc aswell.

I've been to 99% of Hibs games since the last decade, had an ST for about 20 years now and will continue to go to every game, it is still a *** ripoff though.

Hibs v Celtic 1991, ticket was £8. Going by the rate of inflation it should now cost £13ish, it does infact cost £27. Thats a *** ripoff, make no mistake.

Wether lower prices would or wouldn't add to the gate, wether we need to or not be charging theseextraordinate prices, the SPL, for what standard of play we get is an absulute ripoff, thats a fact.

£27 for Rankin, Nish, David Wier, Kenny Miller etc. :faf:
That would take a minimum wage worker 5-6 hours to earn that! A disgrace, some people are trying to justify that aswell.

I bet there are some on here trying to justify the £27 who wouldn't step foot in Ibrox or Parkhead as its 'to dear'.

but in that same 20 years the inflation in player wages has been the influence...so blame the players / Bosman for it not the club....also in 1991 you got a river of pish for company.........not the more pleasant and needing paid for facilities we have now

[marinello59]

If we are setting fixed pricing structures before the season starts and we know when games are being played then that is crazy. There are so many variables that would affect demand that the club should look at each game individually and then be more imaginative about how we fill the stadium. This should also include additional income from those inside on match day (thereby giving a benefit from a more modest entrance price). For example people selling food, drink, programmes in the stands before and during the game and at HT.

We need someone from Easyjet, Hilton or American Football on our Board.

Will they factor in refunds to season ticket holders when games are cheaper for walk up supporters? :confused:

£27 to watch Hibs beat Rangers. A bargain. :greengrin

[Woody1985]

Thats nonsense, people from football loving countries all over the world are in Edinburgh just now, i think there's quite a few that would like to experience football in a different environment. Take that into the season and every week there's hundreds of stag do's in edinburgh yet we're stopping them from coming to games because they're not on the database, IMO thats crazy.

Doesn't matter if they're into the SPL, i've been to a game in Switzerland and i can assure you neither me or my old man really didn't give a monkeys about the swiss league.

I thought we were talking about prices for category 'a' games, our only chance of getting full houses, if you were doing it solely for this game then we were getting our wires crossed.

How many foreign fans have been knocked back for this reason? Answer; You don't know. you've just made that up. :tee hee: And I appreciate that one fan is one fan too many.

However, I've been to Amsterdam 5 times and have tried to get to games but haven't been able to because all I could find was half day packages including meals for 100 euros +. I went to the stadium via train and went around the club shop etc and was told I couldn't buy one. My best chance was to come back on match day to speak to a tout (I was generally too melted on a Sat afternoon though!).

Did I lose any sleep about not making a game, no.
Would I have liked to attend the game, yes, of course I would?
Will Ajax be too fussed that they've missed out on my 15 euros maybe 3 of the 5 times max I've been to Holland in 6 years? Nope.

[Woody1985]

Precisely.

In fact, in doubling the gate the club probably made more money through pies, programmes etc. and, I dare say, there were a fair few 'SJP virgins' that night and it's a nonsense to suggest that not one ever came back.

I see the idea of dynamic pricing has been attacked on the basis that as no-one is doing it (an erroneous standpoint - Roma stagger their prices over time to kick-off but their a two-bit outfit and we shouldn't aspire to that level of mediocrity) but I don't know why people would claim that reduced pricing doesn't mean that a bigger gate can't be achieved. I've seen it happen.

What's your point exactly?

I'm guessing the earlier you buy the cheaper the ticket?

So you think that people with hectic schedules and often don't know if they can make it to the game should be punished? Or equally as stupid if it's the other way around, by planning early you get penalised.

[Woody1985]

You think that is the only reason to buy a season ticket? Are you serious? I have a season ticket for SJP. I don't go to every game (work, and I'm also currently in Qatar) but I've been in the same seat since the stand I am in went up. It's a good seat and I'm with friends of 20+ years.

You not got any mates?! No preference about where you sit?!

How obtuse are you?! I've read through this thread and you keep banging on despite people providing reasonable evidence that your suggestions don't work (as much as we'd all like them to) apart from one game nearly 20 years ago FFS.

Of course people buy STs for more than one reason. However, people will buy it up front because it's cheaper and gets funds into the club earlier (or with the new interest free loan guarantees income :greengrin). They would see themselves as being penalised for being loyal supporters and would revert to PATG meaning the club don't have funds at the beginning of the season (it's a two way street).

Some people like you may be able to afford two season tickets for two different clubs and not be too fussed about losing a couple of hundred quid a year but to suggest that there are a hell of a lot of people are quite happy to miss games so they can sit in the same seat and not care about the financial impact is wrong.

[hibs0666]

Hibs v Celtic 1991, ticket was £8. Going by the rate of inflation it should now cost £13ish, it does infact cost £27. Thats a *** ripoff, make no mistake.


Since 1991 our club has invested somewhere around £22 million to drag its facilities out of the dark ages. Last season the average crowd was 25% higher than in the early 90's despite being in the midst of a grim economic situation.

Bigger crowds and better facilities would suggest there is no point at all in harking back to the past.

[DH1875]

The trouble is that a Cat. A game is a Cat. A game regardless of when it is played. The club set the prices at the start of the season based on Saturday 3pm kick offs, after that it's outwith their hands.

Is it not safe to asume thought that all our Cat A games will be on the TV and therefore will be moved from 3pm on a Saturday.

[capitals_finest]

presume you don't goto games then :rolleyes: its been £27 for past 3 years for Cat A matches...but feel free to add to SKYs coffers to pay overinflated monies to the EPL while complaining that Hibs havent spent enough on the squad

Didn't realise it was as much as 27 for the east but i trust you are right. Had a ST in there for years but for work reasons have had to leave it this year.

Just being honest, I love going to the games but the sky sports packages are starting to look very attractive considering the amount of football they have on offer. I would hate myself for it but gate prices are too high these days.

[DCI Gene Hunt]

Wouldn't bother with SKY (Hun Telly). £27 is dear but that's the way it's been for a while now. :violin:

Would be good to see the price drop, hopefully it would raise attendance.

Guv

[magpie1892]

How obtuse are you?! I've read through this thread and you keep banging on despite people providing reasonable evidence that your suggestions don't work (as much as we'd all like them to) apart from one game nearly 20 years ago FFS.

Of course people buy STs for more than one reason. However, people will buy it up front because it's cheaper and gets funds into the club earlier (or with the new interest free loan guarantees income :greengrin). They would see themselves as being penalised for being loyal supporters and would revert to PATG meaning the club don't have funds at the beginning of the season (it's a two way street).

Some people like you may be able to afford two season tickets for two different clubs and not be too fussed about losing a couple of hundred quid a year but to suggest that there are a hell of a lot of people are quite happy to miss games so they can sit in the same seat and not care about the financial impact is wrong.

Someone asked for an example, I gave one. 18 years is nearly 20 years ago in the same way that GBP24 is nearly GBP27 (i.e. less than the GBP25 ceiling I and others have advocated here for Cat A). I also advocated dynamic pricing, and cited another example (Roma) and you witter on about schedules, etc. How someone's 'schedule' is relevant to buying a ticket which can be done in minutes over the internet or telephone or smartphone (or, indeed, in person, or a mate picking one up for you, etc.) escapes me.

You say people have provided 'reasonable evidence' that lowering prices doesn't increase gates. I don't see any evidence at all other than the cite of Motherwell who dropped prices until they went bust. I was not (and have had to rebut five times now) advocating an indefinite price cut (although anyone who says the SPL is value for money needs sectioned) but saying that for individual games it can have dramatic affects on attendance - and cited an example I witnessed personally. It's less relevant because it was 1992? Then the flimsy counter argument of Motherwell must be nearing its sell-by date.

Of course people buy season tickets for more than one reason - this was my point when challenged that the (I quote) 'whole point' was to save money. What's your point?

You say: 'to suggest that there are a hell of a lot of people are quite happy to miss games so they can sit in the same seat and not care about the financial impact is wrong'. That may be so. I didn't say anything approaching that. Again, I don't see your point.

In answer to your question: 'how obtuse are you?', I would have to say I don't know. I really don't think it's relevant to this discussion and, sadly, ad hominem attacks do little to reinforce your own argument, whatever it is that you're trying to say. I'm keen to have you highlight this 'reasonable evidence' that you mention. See if you can provide that and make some sort of constructive contribution to the debate rather than attacking me.

[magpie1892]

What's your point exactly?

I'm guessing the earlier you buy the cheaper the ticket?

So you think that people with hectic schedules and often don't know if they can make it to the game should be punished? Or equally as stupid if it's the other way around, by planning early you get penalised.

Honestly, you've lost me here. I haven't a clue what you're on about.

[Danderhall Hibs]

How has he taken a gamble by charging the same price as we always do against Rangers?

Now that we have more seats available you'd think the prices would drop a bit? Supply and demand.


That would assume that they were paying the same for their players as we do though.

If they were funding their current wage bill with the TV money we get, then their prices would need to be a wee bit higher, which is what I think Mikey was getting at :wink:

So he wasn't comparing like for like? Not sure it's a great comparison then...:greengrin


Price reductions are a good idea for single meetings as a promotion but do not work in the long run.

Motherwell slashed prices brought in the likes of John Spencer and there average crowd was no higher. They ended up in administration.

Does anyone think that them going into administration is more to do with the wages they paid Spencer, Goram and the like than letting fans in for a wee bit cheaper?


What's your point exactly?

I'm guessing the earlier you buy the cheaper the ticket?

So you think that people with hectic schedules and often don't know if they can make it to the game should be punished? Or equally as stupid if it's the other way around, by planning early you get penalised.

I think it's a good idea - encourages folk to buy early. It doesn't seem that crazy to me.

[Woody1985]

Someone asked for an example, I gave one. 18 years is nearly 20 years ago in the same way that GBP24 is nearly GBP27 (i.e. less than the GBP25 ceiling I and others have advocated here for Cat A). I also advocated dynamic pricing, and cited another example (Roma) and you witter on about schedules, etc. How someone's 'schedule' is relevant to buying a ticket which can be done in minutes over the internet or telephone or smartphone (or, indeed, in person, or a mate picking one up for you, etc.) escapes me.

You say people have provided 'reasonable evidence' that lowering prices doesn't increase gates. I don't see any evidence at all other than the cite of Motherwell who dropped prices until they went bust. I was not (and have had to rebut five times now) advocating an indefinite price cut (although anyone who says the SPL is value for money needs sectioned) but saying that for individual games it can have dramatic affects on attendance - and cited an example I witnessed personally. It's less relevant because it was 1992? Then the flimsy counter argument of Motherwell must be nearing its sell-by date.

Of course people buy season tickets for more than one reason - this was my point when challenged that the (I quote) 'whole point' was to save money. What's your point?

You say: 'to suggest that there are a hell of a lot of people are quite happy to miss games so they can sit in the same seat and not care about the financial impact is wrong'. That may be so. I didn't say anything approaching that. Again, I don't see your point.

In answer to your question: 'how obtuse are you?', I would have to say I don't know. I really don't think it's relevant to this discussion and, sadly, ad hominem attacks do little to reinforce your own argument, whatever it is that you're trying to say. I'm keen to have you highlight this 'reasonable evidence' that you mention. See if you can provide that and make some sort of constructive contribution to the debate rather than attacking me.

Peoples schedules are very relevant. I'd suggest that a lot of walk up fans cannot commit to buying a ST due to their schedules i.e their lives. Therefore, it's very relevant. Where's the real benefit of squeezing an extra couple of quid out those people because they don't know if they'll have work commitments, kids parties, family occasions etc etc all very relevant to every fan. What's the price variation for Roma tickets? Did their gates and/or revenue increase since moving from a flat pricing structure (assuming they had one).

The reasonable evidence is the fact that it's been tried by Motherwell, there's been figures that suggest how many extra we would need to get through the door to get back to break even, chairmen don't go out their way to piss off their own fans when they could get more of them in the door, if and when the price reduction ooccurs then product on the park will fall even further when those numbers can't be made up. All reasonable evidence. Where is YOUR evidence that it does work other than one game 18 years ago (what relevance is the 18-20 years and the 24/25 barrier other than they are two numbers quite close together?!)

I agree that cheap prices will have an impact on one off games but what's the point in that when there is a chance of alienating your ST holders unless the 'one off' game is factored in. If you don't want an indefinite reduction then how many games do you want to lower prices for? 1,5, 10? I also agree that the product is **** for what it is but any reduction in prices will see a reduction in **** quality.

I'm going to go out on a limb here as I've not looked at their attendances for a couple of seasons but Juventus whom had tickets that were less than 10 euros were getting gates of 12,000-20,000. There may have been other factors for that but one of the biggest clubs in the world have tickets that are dirt cheap yet had to downgrade their stadium because they couldn't fill it (admittedly it was huge and had a **** running track around it).

As for STs, my point was that the cheaper price is the one of the major factors in buying a ST. You've suggested that people aren't really that bothered that they could pay more than PATG fans because there are other reasons for buying one.

Apologies for the obtuse comment, I thought you were coming across as a cock with the 'well I've got two STs and I don't care how many games I miss attitude'.

[Hibby Bairn]

Getting a bit tetchy!

I think everyone is broadly agreed that £27 is too high and we need/want to fill the stadium....and not purely for financial reasons.

It also seems that the potential market for bums on seats is fairly high but varies throughout the year. It also seems that demand for games from hibs fans (and visiting team fans will be elastic depending on array of factors....day, time, live tv, form, proximity to pay day, home games in a row, midweek games recently, post seasonal expenditure periods etc. etc.

Despite all these factors and opportunities we (and other SPL clubs) fix prices at the start of the season and do not adjust them at all to suit individual games. We don't even market fixtures beyond the core fan base who will know who we are playing next.

Surely, amongst all that, we are missing a trick or two in filling the stadium?

There must also be some financial models that show thee likelihood of knock on spending once people start coming to games? The entrance fee can therefore be a kicker towards future spend. For example my son and I have ST's but his 9 yr old best pal followed his dad's misguided worship of the boys in blue. We took him to the Irvine Meadow game and he is now a fully fledged hibby with new strip, hibs ball and has been to a few more games with us including away games (as we can sit together).

A bit more imagination on this can work I believe. In fact if I was RP I would be sending a ticket to Qatar to get Magpie round the table pronto.

[magpie1892]

Peoples schedules are very relevant. I'd suggest that a lot of walk up fans cannot commit to buying a ST due to their schedules i.e their lives. Therefore, it's very relevant. Where's the real benefit of squeezing an extra couple of quid out those people because they don't know if they'll have work commitments, kids parties, family occasions etc etc all very relevant to every fan. What's the price variation for Roma tickets? Did their gates and/or revenue increase since moving from a flat pricing structure (assuming they had one).

The reasonable evidence is the fact that it's been tried by Motherwell, there's been figures that suggest how many extra we would need to get through the door to get back to break even, chairmen don't go out their way to piss off their own fans when they could get more of them in the door, if and when the price reduction ooccurs then product on the park will fall even further when those numbers can't be made up. All reasonable evidence. Where is YOUR evidence that it does work other than one game 18 years ago (what relevance is the 18-20 years and the 24/25 barrier other than they are two numbers quite close together?!)

I agree that cheap prices will have an impact on one off games but what's the point in that when there is a chance of alienating your ST holders unless the 'one off' game is factored in. If you don't want an indefinite reduction then how many games do you want to lower prices for? 1,5, 10? I also agree that the product is **** for what it is but any reduction in prices will see a reduction in **** quality.

I'm going to go out on a limb here as I've not looked at their attendances for a couple of seasons but Juventus whom had tickets that were less than 10 euros were getting gates of 12,000-20,000. There may have been other factors for that but one of the biggest clubs in the world have tickets that are dirt cheap yet had to downgrade their stadium because they couldn't fill it (admittedly it was huge and had a **** running track around it).

As for STs, my point was that the cheaper price is the one of the major factors in buying a ST. You've suggested that people aren't really that bothered that they could pay more than PATG fans because there are other reasons for buying one.

Apologies for the obtuse comment, I thought you were coming across as a cock with the 'well I've got two STs and I don't care how many games I miss attitude'.

I don't have two STs. I have one for SJP (currently with a mate as I am in Qatar) and used to have one for both clubs in the early 90s but - and this will make me sound like a cock - other than SJP I have paid into the football once in 10+ years and several hundred games. That is to say, if it were GBP100 walk up at ER, I would still get in for nothing. It won't affect me but I'm not 'alright Jack'; I mention this because it irritates me that the hun game looks (going by comments on here alone - so perhaps not a representative sample) as if it's not going to sell out. For the game marking the completion of Easter Road for the forseeable, that's a great pity.

Again, your first para makes the same point I do - walk up should not be a cash cow for the club. Roma's gates are a mystery to me - Italian fans are very fickle - but the pricing structure they employ doesn't seem to have harmed the club or the club/fans relationship. A lot of the comments here are saying that the psychologial barrier of GBP25 has been broken and I'd agree with that. That is the reason I mentioned GBP24 - it's as close to GBP27 as 18 years is to 20 years, i.e. your attempt to invalidate my argument based on when the example I cited took place. A similar discrepancy between when it happened and when you said it happened (18 as opposed to 20) and applied to the price of tickets for the hun game shows what can be achieved with the adjustment you're positing. Apols if I didn't make this clear.

Ah. Motherwell again. As mentioned above, it ended badly for them because of the wages they were paying. Same thing happened at Dundee. But the example is a poor one because Motherwell have no latent support. Hibs do, as we see when the odd 'marquee' game comes along. you seem to think it's all immediate bottom line. You're not factoring in goodwill, brand equity, psychological support to team of playing in front of a full East, merchandise, food, programmes.

Someone above posted saying we should get someone from American Football on board. I'd go along with that to the extent that the American business model is to make a product and then shift as many as possible at the lowest price possible to make a profit. In the UK, the reverse is true in so many cases: make a product and see how much you can get away with charging. If we look at retail, the biggest success stories in the UK are either American (Wal-Mart/ASDA) or run on the US model described above (Tesco, etc.).

'As for STs, my point was that the cheaper price is the one of the major factors in buying a ST. You've suggested that people aren't really that bothered that they could pay more than PATG fans because there are other reasons for buying one.' No, I really didn't say that. The original comment was that the 'whole point' of buying an ST was to make a saving. I opposed that argument and never made any comment about 'people', only myself, nor did I mention 'walk up/PATG' fans. I rebutted the argument because it was a silly and inaccurate thing to say. On this we agree, but you're putting words in my mouth if you think I was speaking for anyone other than myself in this case.

Anyway, I'm supposed to be working, we're going round in circles and I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I will say this in summation:

GBP27 is a price that might see empty seats at the first game of a completed stadium - if it comes to pass, that's a disgrace
GBP27 for a non-Sat 3pm game is a disgrace
GBP27 for a game live on telly is a digrace
GBP27 for the standard of football in the SPL is a disgrace

Not filling your stadium when you could do so? That's stupidity on numerous levels. Petrie has done well in many ways. I would argue that his approach to pricing levels is an area where he needs help.

[magpie1892]

In fact if I was RP I would be sending a ticket to Qatar to get Magpie round the table pronto.

That made me laugh and blush at the same time..!

[KdyHby]

You can now buy and print off concert tickets on line, with tickets now being scanned at ER - why can't match tickets be sold this way too?

[magpie1892]

You can now buy and print off concert tickets on line, with tickets now being scanned at ER - why can't match tickets be sold this way too?

At a number of clubs, they can be. As I have so obtusely reiterated, the logistics of dynamic pricing and ease of purchase are just two of maybe 20 reasons why the stadium should be full every week.

[Phil MaGlass]

We complained about it last season as well, so how are we fickle?

If only 8-10,000 people want to buy Season Tickets but others don't, then that's their choice. Just because someone can't (or even doesn't want to) go to every game, why penalise them with ridiculous prices?

What kind of advert is it for Scottish Football to show half-filled stadia every saturday on TV? Surely the SPL and TV companies could come up with some system to encourage more fans to these games, instead of having them sitting in pubs.

---------------------

And FWIW, I'm a Season ticket holder myself and buy one every year for both my parents as well. Doesn't stop me looking at things from a reasonable point of view for my fellow fans that don't hold STs. They're not committing some kind of crime you know.

I agree with you there, how can the club justify 27 quid for a game thats going to be played at lunch time and shown on the telly. Alot of fans already give the OF games a body swerve as they dont want to put their kids through the bile experience,lets not try to drive away the fans on low incomes who would loike to see those games but cant afford it, 27 quid, yir huvvin a laugh.
Mibbe the club are hoping the novelty of the new stand opening will add to the attendance

[Steve-O]

27 quid is a joke. 400+ quid for a season ticket is also a joke.

Here the games are $30 walk up...that's about 14 quid. The standard is a bit lower, but it's not 50% lower in standard, that's a fact! Season tickets are about $300 for 14 games...a much fairer price.

Motherwell - a pish example and as has been stated, they've not exactly got a big support have they?? People that think if Hibs charged five quid a ticket one week that they wouldn't get many more people through the gate must be off their heid!

I like the idea of magpies 'early bird' style pricing idea, i.e. if you buy your ticket a month in advance it's 5 quid cheaper than if you buy a week in advance or whatever.

There HAS to be a better way than just saying "nope its 27 quid for a load of sheeeite thats barely worth 15, like it or lump it!".

As for the tourists, I'm pretty sure most of them would see the price, have a good laugh, and head back into town again even if they were 'allowed' to buy tickets.

[magpie1892]

As for the tourists, I'm pretty sure most of them would see the price, have a good laugh, and head back into town again even if they were 'allowed' to buy tickets.

That reminds me. In 2000 me and the then other half were hosting a couple we knew from Rotterdam. He was a big football fan (Willem II - he was from Tilburg) and their visit was over the last weekend of the season. Hibs were away so I said I'd take him to Tynecastle as he wanted to go to a game, any game. The yams were hosting St Johnstone so I reckoned we could go in with the Saints and jump about a bit. When we got to the turnstile - GBP18. The guy sort of had an idea what this was in Guilders and when I confirmed it, he refused point blank to go in as it was more than double what he paid to walk up at Willem II (eredivisie).

This guy was no cheapskate (flash apartment, flash car, good job, hot girlfriend, liked his labels) and wanted to go to the football badly but was also not about to be ripped off. For Tynecastle, I'm afraid you must read Easter Road because only total die-hard football fans would pay walk up for two teams they didn't care for and a rotten standard of football. Tourists who happen to like football might be curious, but not GBP27 curious.

[StevieC]

Tourists who happen to like football might be curious, but not GBP27 curious.

I agree.

If I'm ever abroad I will always check out the options for a football match.
Took the missus to Monaco last year and somehow managed to arrive at the football stadium 10 minutes before kick off on a match day :wink:
It was cheaper than an SPL game!

Tourist-wise pricing probably works out the same for any sort of event. I was in Venice and wanted to do the gondola thing (just one cornetto!). Got quoted 50 euro each so we went to the Peggy Guggenheim Museum and had a slap up meal instead. Just as memorable and substantially cheaper.

[DCI Gene Hunt]

GBP27 is a price that might see empty seats at the first game of a completed stadium - if it comes to pass, that's a disgrace
GBP27 for a non-Sat 3pm game is a disgrace
GBP27 for a game live on telly is a digrace
GBP27 for the standard of football in the SPL is a disgrace

:agree:

Many more fans would be attracted if the price was better, perhaps a slight reduction in price would result in a higher income due to higher attendance.

T' Guv

[magpie1892]

I agree.

If I'm ever abroad I will always check out the options for a football match.
Took the missus to Monaco last year and somehow managed to arrive at the football stadium 10 minutes before kick off on a match day :wink:
It was cheaper than an SPL game!

Tourist-wise pricing probably works out the same for any sort of event. I was in Venice and wanted to do the gondola thing (just one cornetto!). Got quoted 50 euro each so we went to the Peggy Guggenheim Museum and had a slap up meal instead. Just as memorable and substantially cheaper.

I was in Venice in autumn 2001 and got quoted 80 for me and the missus. Had done a bit of prep. so did a bit of 'laughing in the face' which he didn't like, offered 20 and settled on 35euro.

You should have haggled mate!

[down-the-slope]

I think that a major point is being missed in all of this....

Ticket prices - be it walk up / season etc are directly related to club overheads...for that read Wages..

If we want cheaper prices we need to drop another level wages and player wise...comparing prices in countries where they have a significantly larger income from TV / sponsorship is disingenuous..

If we still had Sky deal of a few years back we could drop a £5 of prices and still have same income....

The idea that we can magic up a regular additional 2/3000 fans is false...unless we have a winning team on the park....that comes back to wages...and therefore prices :rolleyes:

Me I never go to the cinema..won't pay £8/£10 to sit with annoying people rustling sweets and popcorn..when for a couple of quid can rent the DVD......on the other hand shouting at the telly when footie is on is no substitute for being there in the flesh...enjoying petty and ill informed views of those around :wink: even although more expensive

You pays your money and take your chance

[magpie1892]

I think that a major point is being missed in all of this....

Ticket prices - be it walk up / season etc are directly related to club overheads...for that read Wages..

If we want cheaper prices we need to drop another level wages and player wise...comparing prices in countries where they have a significantly larger income from TV / sponsorship is disingenuous..

If we still had Sky deal of a few years back we could drop a £5 of prices and still have same income....

The idea that we can magic up a regular additional 2/3000 fans is false...unless we have a winning team on the park....that comes back to wages...and therefore prices :rolleyes:

Me I never go to the cinema..won't pay £8/£10 to sit with annoying people rustling sweets and popcorn..when for a couple of quid can rent the DVD......on the other hand shouting at the telly when footie is on is no substitute for being there in the flesh...enjoying petty and ill informed views of those around :wink: even although more expensive

You pays your money and take your chance

Teams that have beaten Scottish opposition in the recent past: Maribor (Slovenia), Unirea Urziceni (Romania), Neuchatel Xamax (Switzerland), Skonto Riga (Latvia), Kaunas (Lithuania), Rapid (Austria), Maccabi Haifa (Israel), Artmedia Bratislava (Slovakia), Sigma Olomouc (Czech), Dinamo Zagreb (Croatia), Victoria Zizkov (Czech), Vaduz (Lichtenstein). Bohemians (Ireland), etc., etc.,

Watching football in any and all of these countries (incl. Austria and Switzerland) is far cheaper than the SPL. I'm not feeling much money on the table for live coverage of the Slovenian league. Would you say that Maribor get more, or less TV money than Hibs? So, by your argument they must pay their players less. Being honest, we know that they do... Try and tell me that you didn't look at Maribor and think: 'why can't Hibs play like that?'

Furthermore, Scotland's European coefficient is currently one place lower than that of Belgium. I wonder how much the Belgian league makes in TV revenue? I would put good money on it being less than the SPL deal as well but their clubs don't embarrass the country on an annual basis.

You're saying that GBP27 is a realistic spend for the standard of football we get in return? You are having a giraffe mate. Clubs from countries smaller than Scotland, with less money than Scotland and with 'smaller' clubs than Scotland are kicking Scottish ***** year in, year out.

[marinello59]

Teams that have beaten Scottish opposition in the recent past: Maribor (Slovenia), Unirea Urziceni (Romania), Neuchatel Xamax (Switzerland), Skonto Riga (Latvia), Kaunas (Lithuania), Rapid (Austria), Maccabi Haifa (Israel), Artmedia Bratislava (Slovakia), Sigma Olomouc (Czech), Dinamo Zagreb (Croatia), Victoria Zizkov (Czech), Vaduz (Lichtenstein). Bohemians (Ireland), etc., etc.,

Watching football in any and all of these countries (incl. Austria and Switzerland) is far cheaper than the SPL. I'm not feeling much money on the table for live coverage of the Slovenian league. Would you say that Maribor get more, or less TV money than Hibs? So, by your argument they must pay their players less. Being honest, we know that they do...

Furthermore, Scotland's European coefficient is currently one place lower than that of Belgium. I wonder how much the Belgian league makes in TV revenue? I would put good money on it being less than the SPL deal as well but their clubs don't embarrass the country on an annual basis.

You're saying that GBP27 is a realistic spend for the standard of football we get in return? You are having a giraffe mate. Clubs from countries smaller than Scotland, with less money than Scotland and with 'smaller' clubs than Scotland are kicking Scottish ***** year in, year out.

Aren't you totally ignoring the differences between the various economies here?
You would pay £6 in Norway for exactly the same beer you could get here for £3. That's nothing to do with the standard of the product and more to do with differing financial pressures on the provider.

[magpie1892]

Aren't you totally ignoring the differences between the various economies here?
You would pay £6 in Norway for exactly the same beer you could get here for £3. That's nothing to do with the standard of the product and more to do with differing financial pressures on the provider.

But that doesn't apply to all of the countries I have listed. We have a fairly broad spectrum on offer there. None of which you'd pay GBP6 for a beer for, incidentally.

Belgium, Israel, Austria, Switzerland. All 1st world countries. All with, I suspect - and I am happy to be proved wrong here - smaller TV deals than the SPL has, all cheaper to watch football in, all pulling out better results than Scottish teams on the only equivalent stage - European competition.

Perhaps you feel GBP27 for a Sunday game on telly is acceptable. You're entitled to think that but football fans from all over Europe blanch at what we pay - before they even see the paucity of the product.

p.s. if you think a beer costs six quid in Norway because of 'financial pressures' then you haven't been paying attention.

[marinello59]

But that doesn't apply to all of the countries I have listed. We have a fairly broad spectrum on offer there. None of which you'd pay GBP6 for a beer for, incidentally.

Belgium, Israel, Austria, Switzerland. All 1st world countries. All with, I suspect - and I am happy to be proved wrong here - smaller TV deals than the SPL has, all cheaper to watch football in, all pulling out better results than Scottish teams on the only equivalent stage - European competition.

Perhaps you feel GBP27 for a Sunday game on telly is acceptable. You're entitled to think that but football fans from all over Europe blanch at what we pay - before they even see the paucity of the product.

I just used beer as an example. It's a familiar currency for me.:greengrin
We are in very close proximity to the lucrative English leagues and when it comes to competing for players we are severely disadvantaged when it comes to attracting players to Scotland. That is a situation not faced to nearly the same extent by other countries. Do you really think we could cut ticket prices on the back of reduced wage bills without making the standard of football even lower than it is? We pay over the odds in wages for players in the Scottish game because the financial situation in British football leaves us little choice.

[magpie1892]

I just used beer as an example. It's a familiar currency for me.:greengrin
We are in very close proximity to the lucrative English leagues and when it comes to competing for players we are severely disadvantaged when it comes to attracting players to Scotland. That is a situation not faced to nearly the same extent by other countries. Do you really think we could cut ticket prices on the back of reduced wage bills without making the standard of football even lower than it is? We pay over the odds in wages for players in the Scottish game because the financial situation in British football leaves us little choice.

I think we could cut ticket prices significantly for a number of games without reducing wage levels - that was the whole point of my initial argument, that Hibs are but one of many clubs that could fill their stadiums with the implementation of, shall we say, more imaginative pricing structures and marketing techniques without seeing a drop in revenue even as a worst case.

And, as it happens, I also firmly believe that lower wages on offer in Scotland (and we're talking maybe 20% here - not going to interfere with your livelihood) could be achieved without a drop in quality of the product but that assumes anyone is going to address any of the blindingly obvious deficiencies in the ways in which kids are scouted, educated (not just in football) and developed in Scotland and the UK as a whole.

Would the England World Cup performances have been twice as bad if they'd been on half the money?

[CropleyWasGod]

I think we could cut ticket prices significantly for a number of games without reducing wage levels - that was the whole point of my initial argument, that Hibs are but one of many clubs that could fill their stadiums with the implementation of, shall we say, more imaginative pricing structures and marketing techniques without seeing a drop in revenue even as a worst case.





I really only have one word to counter that argument, and that is "Motherwell".

They tried it, and failed, spectacularly.

[magpie1892]

I really only have one word to counter that argument, and that is "Motherwell".

They tried it, and failed, spectacularly.

I have three words. They are: 'read the thread'.

Motherwell, terrible example. No latent support (which Hibs has in abundance), no real potential support (which Hibs has in abundance) and Motherwell's problems didn't stem so much from cutting admission prices - handing humongous contracts to has-beens is what killed them.

Think of another word.

[CropleyWasGod]

I have three words. They are: 'read the thread'.

Motherwell, terrible example. No latent support (which Hibs has in abundance), no real potential support (which Hibs has in abundance) and Motherwell's problems didn't stem so much from cutting admission prices - handing humongous contracts to has-beens is what killed them.

Think of another word.

My point is that no club will do any kind of drastic price-cutting, precisely because of the Motherwell experience. My favourite phrase just now, in other parts of my life, is "where's the evidence?". The only evidence we have, in a Scottish context, of the effects of price-cutting is what happened there. On that basis, I doubt anyone else will be trying it soon.

[down-the-slope]

Teams that have beaten Scottish opposition in the recent past: Maribor (Slovenia), Unirea Urziceni (Romania), Neuchatel Xamax (Switzerland), Skonto Riga (Latvia), Kaunas (Lithuania), Rapid (Austria), Maccabi Haifa (Israel), Artmedia Bratislava (Slovakia), Sigma Olomouc (Czech), Dinamo Zagreb (Croatia), Victoria Zizkov (Czech), Vaduz (Lichtenstein). Bohemians (Ireland), etc., etc.,

Watching football in any and all of these countries (incl. Austria and Switzerland) is far cheaper than the SPL. I'm not feeling much money on the table for live coverage of the Slovenian league. Would you say that Maribor get more, or less TV money than Hibs? So, by your argument they must pay their players less. Being honest, we know that they do... Try and tell me that you didn't look at Maribor and think: 'why can't Hibs play like that?'

Furthermore, Scotland's European coefficient is currently one place lower than that of Belgium. I wonder how much the Belgian league makes in TV revenue? I would put good money on it being less than the SPL deal as well but their clubs don't embarrass the country on an annual basis.

You're saying that GBP27 is a realistic spend for the standard of football we get in return? You are having a giraffe mate. Clubs from countries smaller than Scotland, with less money than Scotland and with 'smaller' clubs than Scotland are kicking Scottish ***** year in, year out.

I notice you don't adress the main point..:rolleyes:

Where did I say £27 was a realistic spend for the standard of Football....:confused:

[magpie1892]

I notice you don't adress the main point..:rolleyes:

Where did I say £27 was a realistic spend for the standard of Football....:confused:

It was a question, hence the question mark at the end of the sentence...

And, forgive me, the 'you' was also collective, aimed less at you personally and more at those on this thread that are defending GBP27, when I firmly believe it could and should be less!

[magpie1892]

My point is that no club will do any kind of drastic price-cutting, precisely because of the Motherwell experience. My favourite phrase just now, in other parts of my life, is "where's the evidence?". The only evidence we have, in a Scottish context, of the effects of price-cutting is what happened there. On that basis, I doubt anyone else will be trying it soon.

My point is that other clubs certainly should look at price cutting. Did I say drastic? I think I mentioned GBP25 as a psychological barrier - several times now. The evidence I have personally experienced (SJP in 1992) shows that clubs with big, latent supports can double gates for one-off (and not even glamour) games by halving the cost of admission.

The idea that clubs in the SPL should shy away from reducing admission costs on the basis of the lunacy that Motherwell employed is a weak position, a lazy one and one without even the most basic analysis of the bigger picture.

In this day and age, with wall-to-wall football on Sky plus the myriad other things to do of a Saturday/Wednesday, that's unforgivable. Many clubs are still operating marketing strategies from the 60s - assuming that people will turn up regardless. This is dangerous.

If Hibs built this new stand with the intention of filling it - which seems logical - then they need to seriously re-evaluate a number of issues with regard to its support, existing and potential. And I still maintain this 're-evaluation' could be done for no loss of revenue.

If Hibs fail to exploit the new stand and completed stadium to its full potential, it begs the question why they spent the money.

[RMQ1967]

Personally I don't think a couple of quid here or there is going to persuade or disuade people to go or not to go to a game. If they believe the entertainment on the day justifies it they'll pay the going rate.

There's a well known economic model "price elasticity of demand" that I'm certain would confirm the above to be the case (be interesting to see how it works out if anyone has the inclination to do the maths:)

I'll guarantee "The Tach" & his minions will have used this in the calculations to set our pricing categories.

As for the Motherwell experiment - the key fact to consider in this arguement is whether it increased crowds; it didn't & so we should learn from it - lower pricing does not equal higher crowds.

[blackpoolhibs]

Sod the football, where's the cheapest beer?:wink:

[magpie1892]

As for the Motherwell experiment - the key fact to consider in this arguement is whether it increased crowds; it didn't & so we should learn from it - lower pricing does not equal higher crowds.

And I have proof that lower pricing can double a crowd.

The key factor in Motherwell's case is to consider why crowds did not go up (although they actually did, by an average of about 400 - 5%) - and that is well documented and seconded here.

Again, read the thread or keep your counsel!

[1875 NO 1]

£27 for an adult! £27! How are Hibs expecting a capacity crowd if they are charging £27!

And £14 for a concession! Goes up to £17 in the FF upper!

Ridiculous :bitchy:
Correct.

Proof will be in how many tickets we sell. 16,000 seats to sell. how many will we sell? 12 or 13,000. Also, on average 1,000 season ticket holders don't turn up each game. Could be a few empty seats on Sunday.

[magpie1892]

Correct.

Proof will be in how many tickets we sell. 16,000 seats to sell. how many will we sell? 12 or 13,000. Also, on average 1,000 season ticket holders don't turn up each game. Could be a few empty seats on Sunday.

Shush you! GBP27 is a bloody bargain!

[RMQ1967]

And I have proof that lower pricing can double a crowd.

The key factor in Motherwell's case is to consider why crowds did not go up (although they actually did, by an average of about 400 - 5%) - and that is well documented and seconded here.

Again, read the thread or keep your counsel!

I've read the thread & lots naive posts about the benefits of cutting walk up prices. It isn't & will never be economically sustainable to do so as anyone with a basic grasp of economics will be able to prove.

Look at the facts - if it worked everyone would be doing it & all clubs would be playing to large capacity crowds every week.

In reality the fact is all clubs have a hardcore who go no matter what & a floating support that pick & choose games based on the size of the prize & how well the team are playing - again a quid or 2 either way makes no difference to the majority of these supporters & the economists know this.

[magpie1892]

I've read the thread & lots naive posts about the benefits of cutting walk up prices. It isn't & will never be economically sustainable to do so as anyone with a basic grasp of economics will be able to prove.

Look at the facts - if it worked everyone would be doing it & all clubs would be playing to large capacity crowds every week.

In reality the fact is all clubs have a hardcore who go no matter what & a floating support that pick & choose games based on the size of the prize & how well the team are playing - again a quid or 2 either way makes no difference to the majority of these supporters & the economists know this.

There's not a lot that can be said to paragraph one other than: utter nonsense. If we apply the basic economic concept of supply and demand, return equilibrium can be achieved at an infinite (yes, infinite) number of points on the curve, the points in this case representing the ticket price. You will be aware of this, of course, having a basic grasp of economics.

But hang on a minute. What's this in paragraph three? "a quid or 2 either way makes no difference to the majority of these supporters". If you're going to talk about economics then it helps not to throw arguably the single most important economic theory out of the window - after all, you had it in your grasp a moment ago - in suggesting that changing the price of a product will not affect demand? An absolute contradiction.

By this point it's harsh but fair to say that you seem not to have a scoobie what you're talking about, despite throwing heavy phrases like 'basic grasp of economics' and 'in reality the fact is' about with gay abandon.

Moving further into the theory of supply and demand, and applying psychological factors to the same, the opportunity to increase core and (especially) floating support with price variation is obvious - especially in a club such as Hibs which has the potential to get many more through its door than it does.

Other clubs are using dynamic pricing structures (tin pot outfits, like AS Roma) but you're off the pace of the main ethos of the thread, and that is that Hibs and the SPL are terrible value for money. People (like you) are suggesting that that is the way it is and the way it has to be but this thread is littered with examples of leagues in Europe from all points on the economic spectrum where it is cheaper to watch seemingly superior football regardless of the respective size of their TV deals.

Unless the 'basic' rules of economics cease to apply in Belgium, Denmark, Slovenia, Switzerland, Czech Republic, etc. then your overall argument is both reactionary and flawed. Indeed, if we apply basic economic theory to your post, which you're almost begging me to do, then it's a case of not merely disagreeing with your opinion, you're actually wrong.

Mindsets like the one you display need to wake up to the reality of 21st Century marketing or crowds will continue to dwindle. It's less than 25 years since the Dundee derby got 20,000+. Neither Dens nor Tannadice now holds more than 14,000. Tell me again about the 'hardcore that go no matter what'?

The elephant is in the room. If you choose not to see it, it doesn't go away and if you want to use economic theory to 'prove' your arguments, it's essential that you have at least a passing familiarity with your chosen subject.

[Lucius Apuleius]

First off, I know nothing about economics. A bit surprising bearing in mind the size of the contracts I administrate, but hey ho.

Second off, I actually think £27 is not bad for 90 minutes entertainment.

Dynamic pricing? My first thought was "numpty" but extremely uncharacteristically, I decided to think about it and the more I think about it the more I actually like the principle. For example, if we make a ticket £20 four weeks before the game, gradually increasing to the £27 pay at the gate price, surely supply and demand would dictate where the proper price was? Again, it obviously brings up the old argument that one should not pay a different price from another. Don't agree with that principle in life anymore either (ex commie!!!). Same applies to package holidays, flights and even increasingly to goods in shops. A little bit of bartering goes a long way. Definitely something to think about Magpie, so well done.

[Andy74]

And I have proof that lower pricing can double a crowd.

The key factor in Motherwell's case is to consider why crowds did not go up (although they actually did, by an average of about 400 - 5%) - and that is well documented and seconded here.

Again, read the thread or keep your counsel!

Lower pricing can increase a crowd but is unlikely to make you any more money. we need to balance getting bodies in for the support element and getting the maximim cash out of it.

You can spout all the economic stuff all day but football is a awee bit different from your usual supply and demand stuff and price points are very diffferent compared to other products.

It is right to say that the odd pound or two will not significantly alter a crowd as you have a fairly set number of people who will go anyway, unless it reaches a daft point.

If that group of people will pay £27 then you do it. If you could get a few more in by lowering it it would not make commercial sense as you had that lot willing to pay the higher price.

Football clubs haven't made lower pricing work significanty for them due to this reasoning. If the goal is to get crowds up yes you can lower prices and it will have some eefect. you will probably make less money from that higher crowd though which is what they have all found out.

And on your point about countries where it is cheaper to watch football. Just about everything is different in those countires in terms of salaries, taxes, cost of living etc so not really much value in a comparison.

[Hibby Bairn]

The other main thing to reflect on here is that the economic drivers will be different for differing customer segments.

In this thread we have already identified at least 4.

1. ST buyers.
2. Walk up fans.
3. Non-residents of Edinburgh (visitors/tourists)
4. Children

There are many, many more. Each needs a different proposition and pricing structure that is flexible to external environment at any given time.

For example a non-ST dad with two hibs supporting boys (aged 8 and 10). They have just been on 2 weeks hols in the med and have a large credit card bill waiting to be paid at the end of August. Dad is on a monthly salary and doesn't get paid until the 27th Aug. His boys go back to school next week and his wife needs to shell out on new school clothes, shoes etc. (sorry for any stereotyping here!)

He wants to go. He wants to see the new shiny East stand. His boys want to go. They think we are going to win the league. The cost for him to do so would be £55. Add on a bit of petrol and maybe a drink or a snack and it is £60 for the three of them to go and see a 90 minute football match. Wife tells him he is having a laugh.

Is it outwith the realms of possibility for a ticket proposition to be developed that costs say £40 for the 3 of them including a free drink or pie? The opportunity cost is high in this case as dad probably won't go on his own and therefore £27 is lost.

[221000]

May be wrong thread so apols if it is, but .... does anyone know how the new East rows are set up, i.e. is first row nearest pitch A, or AA, or do they start from the back? I noticed on another thread someone said theywere near the back ofsection 43 in row DD so wondered if they start at AA at the back of the stand?

Looking to get my tkt for Rangers game and just don't want to be too near the front. Thanks!!

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I'm going to watch Millwall vs Hull on Saturday and that cost me £27 for the main stand, upper tier. There were £22 tickets available as well but I thought it was worth paying an extra fiver so I would a) get a better view and b) hopefully not get a kick-in.

I would much rather be paying £27 quid to watch Hibs as I’m a Hibs fan and I care about the outcome of the game. I don’t support Millwall and me and a mate (not a fan either) are just going out of interest.

I’ve not seen enough of the Championship to give a strong opinion but my guess is that 2 decent Championship teams are probably on par (maybe a bit better) than us and the huns.

It’s a good argument that all football is overpriced but relative to the example above, I think £27 is a bit steep but not totally unreasonable.

[Steve-O]

The amount of people who are willing to accept the status quo because 'thats the way it is' on this thread is, frankly, unbelievable.

And most also seem to be ST holders who, funnily enough, don't need to worry about walk up prices...:rolleyes:

[marinello59]

The amount of people who are willing to accept the status quo because 'thats the way it is' on this thread is, frankly, unbelievable.

And most also seem to be ST holders who, funnily enough, don't need to worry about walk up prices...:rolleyes:

If walk up prices are dropped then inevitably season ticket prices would have to fall. It's nothing to do with whether you are a season ticket holder or not. It's a case of what is a workable alternative. We'd all like to pay less but it isn't that simple.
How many of those shouting for prices to be lowered are also expecting the club to offer higher wages to players to either stay at the club or sign for us in in the first place?

[ahibby]

I am in favour of reducing the prices of STs and walk up simply because I could afford to go to more games if they did. There are going to be huge cuts in the public sector and all the economics people on this board know that will have an equivalent knock on effect to the private sector, including Hibs.

The pricing for the Rangers game will be based on the away support. Hibs know they will come and therefore will maximise the revenue from them. Unfortunately we have to pay the same price. As the game is on TV Hibs know that many Hibs fans who can't afford the game will watch it on tv and those with STs and some well off walk up supporters will go. All in Hibs are maximising income from this game. Would we want it any other way?

Prices would have to fall significantly to have a big affect. Looking at last season and the away game at Hamilton when the temparature was below zero and Hamilton reduced the away end to £5 entry for everyone. Hibs fans filled the away end that night despite the freezing conditions and the journey and Hamilton made more money from us than they would had they not reduced the prices. On top of that the atmosphere was fab and they made more money from pie sales etc as the prices for those things stayed the same. So price reductions for the future might have to be considered.

[Danderhall Hibs]

It is right to say that the odd pound or two will not significantly alter a crowd as you have a fairly set number of people who will go anyway, unless it reaches a daft point.

That fairly setr number of people has been dwindling over the years though - hasn't it. I can only see it dwindling further.


The amount of people who are willing to accept the status quo because 'thats the way it is' on this thread is, frankly, unbelievable.


:agree:



Looking at last season and the away game at Hamilton when the temparature was below zero and Hamilton reduced the away end to £5 entry for everyone. Hibs fans filled the away end that night despite the freezing conditions and the journey and Hamilton made more money from us than they would had they not reduced the prices. On top of that the atmosphere was fab and they made more money from pie sales etc as the prices for those things stayed the same. So price reductions for the future might have to be considered.

Good example. And funnily enough Hamilton didn't go into administration after this!

[LancashireHibby]

On the topic of Hamilton, don't forget that we also filled the away end earlier in the season at £24 (I think) each, so they will have had a huge difference in revenue between the two games, though admittedly a freezing night etc would ordinarily have seen a drop in support.

[magpie1892]

Lower pricing can increase a crowd but is unlikely to make you any more money. we need to balance getting bodies in for the support element and getting the maximim cash out of it.

Who said anything about making any more money?


You can spout all the economic stuff all day but football is a awee bit different from your usual supply and demand stuff and price points are very diffferent compared to other products.

True, but I was trying to stay on the marketing path until some amateur economists started exposing a worrying lack of comprehension of a fairly straightforward concept. In addition, while the point you make is a valid one, you're effectively handing the club carte blanche to shaft us as loyalties muddy the usual supply/demand curve (though ignore it at your peril). As I have stated, this is very dangerous ground to walk on, especially as there are so many other things to do of a Saturday nowadays. Crowds keep falling. They've won't bottom out at GBP27 for an SPL game, on Sunday, on telly.


It is right to say that the odd pound or two will not significantly alter a crowd as you have a fairly set number of people who will go anyway, unless it reaches a daft point.

No it isn't right, as many people on here have said. And has also been pointed out several times, this 'set number of people' keeps shrinking. Supply is up (more seats this coming season) and demand is down, and it's all down to price.


If that group of people will pay £27 then you do it. If you could get a few more in by lowering it it would not make commercial sense as you had that lot willing to pay the higher price.

If every single seat is sold for the hun game then I owe you a big apology.


Football clubs haven't made lower pricing work significanty for them due to this reasoning. If the goal is to get crowds up yes you can lower prices and it will have some eefect. you will probably make less money from that higher crowd though which is what they have all found out.

Many clubs haven't had to as they are not ripping the customer off (140 euro for a Porto season ticket) so don't need to reduce prices in the first place. You use the plural - which clubs have 'all found out' that bigger crowds make less money? There's a nettle to be grasped here. You can either grasp it of your own volition or you can be forced to by falling attendances and rising wages. One way or another, the nettle will be grasped regardless. What a romantic I am to suggest that the club attempt to foster some goodwill while maximising revenue.


And on your point about countries where it is cheaper to watch football. Just about everything is different in those countires in terms of salaries, taxes, cost of living etc so not really much value in a comparison.

Scotland is different in the areas you mention from every single country I mention? With no similarities whatsoever? This is why I proposed countries from across the economic spectrum. Scandinavia = higher taxes (just barely, but at least things there work), higher salaries, CHEAPER FOOTBALL. Eastern Europe: lower salaries, similar taxation, CHEAPER FOOTBALL. Belgium/France/Netherlands similar salaries, similar taxation, CHEAPER FOOTBALL. I could go all day with this but the SPL is, proportionally, the most expensive in Europe (if not the world) after the EPL. Developed countries like Belgium offer top-tier football at a better overall standard for less money without a TV deal worth shouting about. Is this some economic miracle?

[magpie1892]

On the topic of Hamilton, don't forget that we also filled the away end earlier in the season at £24 (I think) each, so they will have had a huge difference in revenue between the two games, though admittedly a freezing night etc would ordinarily have seen a drop in support.

Yeah, when Hibs were flying. You're not comparing like with like. This is the mistake that clubs themselves are continuing to make.

[marinello59]

Many clubs haven't had to as they are not ripping the customer off (140 euro for a Porto season ticket) so don't need to reduce prices in the first place. You use the plural - which clubs have 'all found out' that bigger crowds make less money? There's a nettle to be grasped here. You can either grasp it of your own volition or you can be forced to by falling attendances and rising wages. One way or another, the nettle will be grasped regardless. What a romantic I am to suggest that the club attempt to foster some goodwill while maximising revenue.



Why don't you put a figure on this then? How much do you think ticket prices should be lowered by to make a significant difference in attendance. (And it will need to be significant to cover the cost of reduction.)

[down-the-slope]

Ok lets go with Magpie's wisdom on this and every player contract renewal we campaign to get cut by say 50%....eventually through players accepting this or refusing and leaving and us replacing them with cheaper alternatives we will be able to dramatically drop prices as our expenditure will drop dramatically....that will work won't it :rolleyes:

[magpie1892]

Why don't you put a figure on this then. How much do you think ticket prices should be lowered by to make a significant difference in attendance. (And it will need to be significant to cover the cost of reduction.)

Why don't I put a figure on this? Why don't you read the thread? I've only mentioned it half-a-dozen times!

[marinello59]

Ok lets go with Magpie's wisdom on this and every player contract renewal we campaign to get cut by say 50%....eventually through players accepting this or refusing and leaving and us replacing them with cheaper alternatives we will be able to dramatically drop prices as our expenditure will drop dramatically....that will work won't it :rolleyes:

Meanwhile the other clubs are offering the players what they want.

[magpie1892]

Ok lets go with Magpie's wisdom on this and every player contract renewal we campaign to get cut by say 50%....eventually through players accepting this or refusing and leaving and us replacing them with cheaper alternatives we will be able to dramatically drop prices as our expenditure will drop dramatically....that will work won't it :rolleyes:

If you think that I suggested a 50% drop in price you've not been paying attention.

Silly comment, adds nothing to the argument.

[marinello59]

Why don't I put a figure on this? Why don't you read the thread? I've only mentioned it half-a-dozen times!

Remind me please. I haven't seen a realistic one.

[magpie1892]

Meanwhile the other clubs are offering the players what they want.

Aye, everyone else can pay infinite amounts to players. It's just Hibs that need to pare it in a bit. Fair comment.

Only Hibs gates are down. I made that bit up about the Dundee derby being a 20,000+ game as recently as the 80s.

[magpie1892]

Remind me please. I haven't seen a realistic one.

Whether or not you've seen a figure that you consider as being realistic is neither here nor there, that's not my call to make.

I refer you to my previous answer - it's scattered all over the thread, both in my terms and in the terms of others in which we are agreed.

[down-the-slope]

If you think that I suggested a 50% drop in price you've not been paying attention.

Silly comment, adds nothing to the argument.

Not heard of hyperbole either then

Where did I say you had suggested 50% drop in prices ... not reading it correctly

[magpie1892]

Not heard of hyperbole either then

Where did I say you had suggested 50% drop in prices ... not reading it correctly

You said: 'Ok lets go with Magpie's wisdom on this and every player contract renewal we campaign to get cut by say 50%' So you have my name and your 'hyperbole' in the same sentence. You don't think it looks as if I am positing this reduction?

If I were to employ your (as you term it) 'hyperbole' as a debating tactic, I could suggest that your wisdom would have us paying GBP100 a game. Which would be misleading, silly and a little childish.

But that's 'hyperbole' for you. Or 'talking nonsense' as it's commonly known!

[marinello59]

Whether or not you've seen a figure that you consider as being realistic is neither here nor there, that's not my call to make.

I refer you to my previous answer - it's scattered all over the thread, both in my terms and in the terms of others in which we are agreed.

£24? How many more do you reckon will attend?

[marinello59]

Aye, everyone else can pay infinite amounts to players. It's just Hibs that need to pare it in a bit. Fair comment.

Only Hibs gates are down. I made that bit up about the Dundee derby being a 20,000+ game as recently as the 80s.

Where did I say that? You have said more than once that Hibs should be able to attract better players whilst paying less. Those better players would rather sign for clubs in the SPL willing to pay them more wouldn't they? Hibs can't act unilaterally.

[magpie1892]

Where did I say that? You have said more than once that Hibs should be able to attract better players whilst paying less. Those better players would rather sign for clubs in the SPL willing to pay them more wouldn't they? Hibs can't act unilaterally.


I didn't say that. At all.

Hibs wouldn't be acting unilaterally - clubs reduce prices for walk up all the time. As evidenced by the Hamilton example. Killie did it for their 'decider' last season (bumper gate - did they make any extra money? Who knows, but was that the point?) Dunf did it last season.

I'm saying there's a time and a place and this coming Sunday at ER definitely fulfils both criteria - as will be shown when it doesn't sell out.

[magpie1892]

Where did I say that? You have said more than once that Hibs should be able to attract better players whilst paying less. Those better players would rather sign for clubs in the SPL willing to pay them more wouldn't they? Hibs can't act unilaterally.

Did I say you said that?

You're paranoid.

[down-the-slope]

£15 for Maribor to non ST's....whoops we didn't sell out

[magpie1892]

£15 for Maribor to non ST's....whoops we didn't sell out

What's your point?

Nothing at all to do with the scoreline from the first leg?

No?

Can anyone tell me what's wrong with Down The Slope's post? Anyone? Bueller?

Whoops, etc.

[Hibby Bairn]

The Hamilton example above shows how to fill a stadium with pricing based on 'current market conditions'. Hamilton 'created' the demand through their pricing proposition and filled the stand. I don't know whether they made money on this or not but they filled the stand.

Maybe if Hibs started with the objective of having a fully occupied stadium each week they would be more innovative in their approach. They will then discover where the price equilibrium is that the 'market' will sustain (note: this will fluctuate depending on various factors not least opposition, day, time, live tv and form).

[marinello59]

I didn't say that. At all.

Hibs wouldn't be acting unilaterally - clubs reduce prices for walk up all the time. As evidenced by the Hamilton example. Killie did it for their 'decider' last season (bumper gate - did they make any extra money? Who knows, but was that the point?) Dunf did it last season.

I'm saying there's a time and a place and this coming Sunday at ER definitely fulfils both criteria - as will be shown when it doesn't sell out.

I'll agree with you, the ground probably won't sell out. Where I disagree with you is that the club should consider making this game some kind of loss leader. I am just not convinced that knocking a couple of quid of a ticket for a match against one of the Old Firm will make the wavering punters more willing to come out when St Mirren etc come calling.

[ahibby]

£24? How many more do you reckon will attend?

Some more but who can say how many? Prices often have a psychological affect hence we have seen in the past £9.99, £6.99 because someone thought it more attractive than £10 and £7.

It's a complicated matter because if you drop general prices then concessions, including families, have to drop as well. As those concessions cover 75% of our ST income then it would have a huge affect.

An idea off the top of my head; how about the club sends a letter out well in time for next season to all fans on the database asking them if they would attend or buy a ST price at a choice of prices. Say a ST starting price at £300 for the top seats and walk up prices in accord. From the feedback they might be able to see whether any increase in sales would make up for the reduction in price. It would be good for fans but maybe not the club. They would lose over the season because the income from the OF and other visitors would have to be reduced to. It seems to be a problem sorting it out but I and others think the current non concessioned prices are too high for our pockets.

[marinello59]

Aye, everyone else can pay infinite amounts to players. It's just Hibs that need to pare it in a bit. Fair comment.

Only Hibs gates are down. I made that bit up about the Dundee derby being a 20,000+ game as recently as the 80s.

I think you said it there in response to my post.


Did I say you said that?

You're paranoid.

Only 'cos you are all out to get me.:greengrin
(No need to start getting personal. I just enjoy a decent argument sometimes.)

[magpie1892]

The Hamilton example above shows how to fill a stadium with pricing based on 'current market conditions'. Hamilton 'created' the demand through their pricing proposition and filled the stand. I don't know whether they made money on this or not but they filled the stand.

Maybe if Hibs started with the objective of having a fully occupied stadium each week they would be more innovative in their approach. They will then discover where the price equilibrium is that the 'market' will sustain (note: this will fluctuate depending on various factors not least opposition, day, time, live tv and form).

Hibs have built the stadium. I think that the majority (just barely, to be fair) on here think they need to do a lot more to make sure it's filled regularly.

[magpie1892]

I'll agree with you, the ground probably won't sell out. Where I disagree with you is that the club should consider making this game some kind of loss leader. I am just not convinced that knocking a couple of quid of a ticket for a match against one of the Old Firm will make the wavering punters more willing to come out when St Mirren etc come calling.

Which is why I think the idea of a dynamic pricing structure has to be worth a look. Maybe they already have done? But I doubt it, tbh.

[ahibby]

[QUOTE=Tory Hibby;2542530] I don't know whether they made money on this or not but they filled the stand.
QUOTE]

It's difficult to say, but because of the freezing weather and because Hibs had been humped there previously and the game was midweek evening, It think its fair to suggest that only a smuttering of Hibs fans would have attended. Maybe a couple of hundred say at £20 instead of a couple of thousands at £5. Not to mention double, triple or quadruple the sales at half time. My guess is they made more money that night than they would have had they left it at the normal price. It's difficult to be certain though because we can't say how many would have gone for £20 - £22, midweek evening, freezing conditions and Hibs previously conceding four goals there in the previous match, can we?

[magpie1892]

I think you said it there in response to my post.



Only 'cos you are all out to get me.:greengrin
(No need to start getting personal. I just enjoy a decent argument sometimes.)

If I had all the answers I would be running a football club instead of being a hack currently in the desert.

But I do feel something's got to give. And I am not alone.

Hibs need to do more to fill Easter Road. I am utterly convinced of that.

[marinello59]

Which is why I think the idea of a dynamic pricing structure has to be worth a look. Maybe they already have done? But I doubt it, tbh.

Possibly.
Of course this whole discussion could be made irrelevant by having a winning team to watch. Tickets will be worth every penny then. It could happen.:greengrin

[down-the-slope]

What's your point?

Nothing at all to do with the scoreline from the first leg?

No?

Can anyone tell me what's wrong with Down The Slope's post? Anyone? Bueller?

Whoops, etc.

The game was not on TV so that was not an option...cheaper than normal so by your way of calculating people should be clamouring to go with cheaper prices and no TV..the reality is quality on show / chance of wining is a bigger factor than price.

By the way..you decide what you feel is OK for gers game and I will pay the difference for you

[LancashireHibby]

£15 for Maribor to non ST's....whoops we didn't sell out

I must have imagined the "Maribor game - SOLD OUT" signs that were outside the Ticket Office on the night then? :wink:

Please note the above is in pedant mode and I appreciate that we had 7,000 less seats to fill.

[down-the-slope]

If I had all the answers I would be running a football club instead of being a hack currently in the desert.

But I do feel something's got to give. And I am not alone.

Hibs need to do more to fill Easter Road. I am utterly convinced of that.

Yup something we agree on at last...was the 135th Member get Member not a great way of doing that £16.32 per match...way way below what you are advocating for the odd match...but gives the club some way of budgeting for the season

[down-the-slope]

I must have imagined the "Maribor game - SOLD OUT" signs that were outside the Ticket Office on the night then? :wink:

Please note the above is in pedant mode and I appreciate that we had 7,000 less seats to fill.


They were telling fibs then:wink: As well as near empty block in South..plenty ST's who had tickets and didn't bother going....

[LancashireHibby]

They were telling fibs then:wink: As well as near empty block in South..plenty ST's who had tickets and didn't bother going....

Was in South Upper so didn't see any empty blocks - any non-attending season ticket holders who had tickets were still obviously counted as a sale, hence 'sold out' :wink:

[magpie1892]

Possibly.
Of course this whole discussion could be made irrelevant by having a winning team to watch. Tickets will be worth every penny then. It could happen.:greengrin

Indeed. But until that day arrives (!) we need action I think.

[magpie1892]

The game was not on TV so that was not an option...cheaper than normal so by your way of calculating people should be clamouring to go with cheaper prices and no TV..the reality is quality on show / chance of wining is a bigger factor than price.

By the way..you decide what you feel is OK for gers game and I will pay the difference for you

By my way of calculating, supply and demand should be closer together and the stadium full. At GBP15, supply was still greater than demand, hence empty seats.

The lack of TV coverage wasn't an issue. You don't need me to spell out why that game was quiet. It was the same when the yams were 4-0 down from their Zagreb exploits last season...

Awfully nice of you to offer to subsidise my attendance but I don't have to pay to get in anywhere in the world. I pay at SJP as I like my seat and a jump about with friends, which cant be done in the press box. (Well, it can be, but that's a story for another time. And my lawyers)

[Barney McGrew]

Crowds keep falling.

And has also been pointed out several times, this 'set number of people' keeps shrinking

That's not true. Hibs average attendance now is far higher than it was a decade ago.


I don't know whether they made money on this or not but they filled the stand.

Maybe if Hibs started with the objective of having a fully occupied stadium each week they would be more innovative in their approach.

That's the issue though - a full stadium with reduced prices might mean less actual income for the club. Hamilton might have filled the stand at £5 a ticket, but who is to say the stand wouldn't have been half full if they'd charged the full whack and they'd have made more cash?

We don't have the luxury of big TV money like clubs such as Porto and Roma who have mentioned on this thread already. The largest percentage of Hibs income comes from gate receipts, so we have to be very careful to maximise that as best we could.

[Stevie Reid]

Hibs need to do more to fill Easter Road. I am utterly convinced of that.

In 2002 I actually worked (in what turned out to be a very short lived role) for a company that was employed by Hibs to phone up lapsed ST holders and find out why they weren't coming any more, and what it would take to get them back - ultimately we were to offer these lapsed Hibbies incentivised tickets to try and encourage them back.

It was a very interesting exercise, with most Hibbies stating that them no longer going was down to the lack of competition due to the OF dominance, and that they wouldn't go back until they were out of the league - hardly anyone mentioned prices being a factor. Most interesting was when we occasionally got someone who was a current ST holder by mistake, or someone who still went regularly but didn't buy an ST - more often than not they were outraged to find out that supporters who no longer went were being offered discounted prices, whilst they had paid full whack for their ST up front, or were paying full price at the gate.

The project ultimately failed because the man who had set it up (a very succesful salesman previously) believed that there was money to made in empty seats at football stadia, and he was very, very wrong. But Hibs had got on board with him in an attempt to gather opinion and increase attendances, trying to make a difference. Within a matter of months the Stand Up and Be Counted campaign was started to keep as at ER, based on the club listening and responding to the supporters needs.

In the 7 years since SUABC, we have erradicated the vast majority of our debt, built a training academy, and completed the stadium. Now the last piece of the stadium jigsaw is in place, a greater percentage of any transfer fees in will be spent on improving the team on the park, which will hopefully in turn produce better results and better crowds, maybe build up to putting in more of a challenge to the OF. But these things take time - the progress we've already made in a relatively short period of time is unbelievable. To imply the board are somehow being negligent in their planning for the future of the club is, quite simply, wrong.

STF stated at the Fans' Forums back in 2003 that the most important thing was to make sure that Hibs are around for another 100 years and beyond, and they have taken the most important steps to do that. There's not a doubt in my mind that the board will have looked at varying pricing structures over the years, and decided they are what they are with all factors taken into consideration. We have a solid core home support of around 11,000 - the rest will come along when we're on a good run, and disappear again when we're struggling. That core of 11,000 will increase significantly if/when we consistently finish 3rd in the league and win/regularly challenge for cups - and the board are doing all the right things for this to happen.

I truly believe that taking a couple of quid off the entry prices will not bring more people in regularly. When in recent seasons I haven't had my ST, on rare occasions when I've decided that I couldn't afford to go, £2 wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to my decision. If you drop prices and see no significant upturn then you are on a hiding to nothing by increasing them again, and your revenue has gone down significantly. Just my personal view on this.

[magpie1892]

That's not true. Hibs average attendance now is far higher than it was a decade ago.[QUOTE]

Weren't Hibs in the 1st a decade ago? How many did Stranraer bring on their second visit to ER? And how is Hibs' average attendance now compared to 40 years ago? Average trend is down in Scotland, and then some. See my point about the Dundee derby. This used to be a 30,000 game in the 50s. Then 25,000, then 20,000 (not so long ago) now it doesn't even sell out Tannadice's 14,500.

[QUOTE]That's the issue though - a full stadium with reduced prices might mean less actual income for the club. Hamilton might have filled the stand at £5 a ticket, but who is to say the stand wouldn't have been half full if they'd charged the full whack and they'd have made more cash? Who is to say, you're quite right. Perhaps trying it at ER and keeping the fans informed with total transparency might be an idea.


We don't have the luxury of big TV money like clubs such as Porto and Roma who have mentioned on this thread already. The largest percentage of Hibs income comes from gate receipts, so we have to be very careful to maximise that as best we could.

But neither do the Belgian clubs, the Israeli clubs, the Romanian clubs, the Scandinavian clubs, etc. Where do Anderlecht get their money from that they can charge 12 euro to see a team at the top of a similar (well, according to UEFA, better) league? It's not Sky. Similarly, the coverage for the Eredivisie (NL) is total pennies - I think ESPN had it and they paid less for it than Setanta paid for the SPL by some distance.

Prices are too high here for the quality of the product (in the main). Ticket prices need to more accurately reflect the world in which we now live or attendances will continue to slide.

[down-the-slope]

By my way of calculating, supply and demand should be closer together and the stadium full. At GBP15, supply was still greater than demand, hence empty seats.

The lack of TV coverage wasn't an issue. You don't need me to spell out why that game was quiet. It was the same when the yams were 4-0 down from their Zagreb exploits last season...

Awfully nice of you to offer to subsidise my attendance but I don't have to pay to get in anywhere in the world. I pay at SJP as I like my seat and a jump about with friends, which cant be done in the press box. (Well, it can be, but that's a story for another time. And my lawyers)

While it was a genuine offer :greengrin i know fine you can't be there...and thats my point...no matter the price there are a huge number of people who can't (due to family / work / location / finance (at any price)) be there..and no amount of tinkering with the prices will effect that. What we need is to get more kids in with £45 season tickets...as with business (take Coke as example) you need to hook young so that loyalty becomes a cash stream for years to come....

I personally don't beleive many people stumble along to matches by chance / accident...and most are taken (dragged maybe :wink:) by someone else..

Maybe to add to brilliant season offer..club could give ST holders discount vouchers usable to take a mate along at reduced cost to aid the getting hooked...

[magpie1892]

While it was a genuine offer :greengrin i know fine you can't be there...and thats my point...no matter the price there are a huge number of people who can't (due to family / work / location / finance (at any price)) be there..and no amount of tinkering with the prices will effect that. What we need is to get more kids in with £45 season tickets...as with business (take Coke as example) you need to hook young so that loyalty becomes a cash stream for years to come....

I personally don't beleive many people stumble along to matches by chance / accident...and most are taken (dragged maybe :wink:) by someone else..

Maybe to add to brilliant season offer..club could give ST holders discount vouchers usable to take a mate along at reduced cost to aid the getting hooked...

I'm touched... It's Al Jazeera for me.

I think if the club ever did look at reduced pricing for certain games (say, GBP7 for everyone for Killie in February then they could issue ST holders with a voucher for either money off the following season's ticket or GBP15 (the difference?) to spend on the club shop provided minimum spend was GBP30. Based on standard retail mark up of 100%, this wouldn't lose money, would engender goodwill and would raise the profile of the club in terms of the positive press this would generate (at the EN at least) and see more kids perhaps getting their first Hibs top on an appropriate birthday.

This is just 'back of fag packet' stuff. I've got hundreds of ideas like this. Most of them are **** but surely a couple have legs?!

[Barney McGrew]

Weren't Hibs in the 1st a decade ago? How many did Stranraer bring on their second visit to ER? And how is Hibs' average attendance now compared to 40 years ago? Average trend is down in Scotland, and then some. See my point about the Dundee derby. This used to be a 30,000 game in the 50s. Then 25,000, then 20,000 (not so long ago) now it doesn't even sell out Tannadice's 14,500..

Nope. Season 1998-99 was the great adventure season - but thanks for bringing that season up, because even with a winning team on the park that was humping teams week in week out, and the costs for entry much lower, our average attendance that season was around 10k. Hardly an advert for reduced prices and a winning team on the park meaning more bodies in through the door :wink:

Our average for the next few years when we were promoted again was around the 10.5 to 11k mark. Last season (with a reduced capacity for three months) was over 12k.

You can go back to 40 odd years ago if you like, but the simple fact is that the clubs back then had nowhere near the level of outgoings on wages that they do now, so they could keep the costs down for Joe Public coming in. If they had the same wage bill back then, then you can bet your bottom dollar the prices to get in would have been higher.


Who is to say, you're quite right. Perhaps trying it at ER and keeping the fans informed with total transparency might be an idea..

Go and do the maths. Cost price for a ticket for a Hibs v Hamilton game last year was £22 and the attendance at the game was 11,481, so probably around 3500 walk ups. Let's say 2500 of them were full adult tickets, that's a take of £55k from them - at £5 a ticket, we'd need 11,000 people to buy walk ups to make the same money. And that's not counting the other 1000 concessions. Quite simply, it wouldn't work and the club would lose money.

[magpie1892]

Nope. Season 1998-99 was the great adventure season - but thanks for bringing that season up, because even with a winning team on the park that was humping teams week in week out, and the costs for entry much lower, our average attendance that season was around 10k. Hardly an advert for reduced prices and a winning team on the park meaning more bodies in through the door :wink:

Our average for the next few years when we were promoted again was around the 10.5 to 11k mark. Last season (with a reduced capacity for three months) was over 12k.

You can go back to 40 odd years ago if you like, but the simple fact is that the clubs back then had nowhere near the level of outgoings on wages that they do now, so they could keep the costs down for Joe Public coming in. If they had the same wage bill back then, then you can bet your bottom dollar the prices to get in would have been higher.



Go and do the maths. Cost price for a ticket for a Hibs v Hamilton game last year was £22 and the attendance at the game was 11,481, so probably around 3500 walk ups. Let's say 2500 of them were full adult tickets, that's a take of £55k from them - at £5 a ticket, we'd need 11,000 people to buy walk ups to make the same money. And that's not counting the other 1000 concessions. Quite simply, it wouldn't work and the club would lose money.

You're ignoring something I have said so many times now I tire of repeating it - dynamic pricing. I have not, at any point, suggested GBP5 for any game at all, ever. I went as low as GBP7 for a Killie midweek in Feb. as a hypothetical. The game you mention v. Hamilton was on a Saturday, and Hibs had lost one of their previous SEVENTEEN games. So, 'quite simply' you're not comparing like with like.

You've done this in the first paragraph as well in referencing Hibs' attendances in the 1st division. Leave aside the much smaller number of visiting fans, this was a second-tier product, which will never get the same level of corporate or walk up as top tier football will, despite the many limitations of the SPL.

Neither are you taking any account of goodwill, merchandise, getting them young, etc.

Also: "You can go back to 40 odd years ago if you like, but the simple fact is that the clubs back then had nowhere near the level of outgoings on wages that they do now, so they could keep the costs down for Joe Public coming in. If they had the same wage bill back then, then you can bet your bottom dollar the prices to get in would have been higher." Can you? I'm not sure. There wasn't much else to do of a Saturday then as now. No live football on telly seemingly 24/7, no other widely accessible sports of note, no multiplex cinema, no retail parks, no opportunity to fly to another country for the weekend with the plane ticket the same price as the hun game on Sunday...

You're factoring in nothing other than the gate receipts. Big mistake.

[Hibby Bairn]

Go and do the maths. Cost price for a ticket for a Hibs v Hamilton game last year was £22 and the attendance at the game was 11,481, so probably around 3500 walk ups. Let's say 2500 of them were full adult tickets, that's a take of £55k from them - at £5 a ticket, we'd need 11,000 people to buy walk ups to make the same money. And that's not counting the other 1000 concessions. Quite simply, it wouldn't work and the club would lose money.

Or 5,500 at £10 a ticket and have a full(er) stadium? That is only 2,000 more than walked up which doesn't seem too ambitious a target to meet. It may even incentivise more Accies fans to travel through as well.

[Barney McGrew]

You're ignoring something I have said so many times now I tire of repeating it - dynamic pricing. I have not, at any point, suggested GBP5 for any game at all, ever. I went as low as GBP7 for a Killie midweek in Feb. as a hypothetical. The game you mention v. Hamilton was on a Saturday, and Hibs had lost one of their previous SEVENTEEN games. So, 'quite simply' you're not comparing like with like.

The example that was being used was Hamilton last season, and you said Hibs should try it - I simply applied that to the equivalent game.

So let's say hypothetically that Hibs lowered prices to say £15 for a Saturday 3pm ko game at ER - what effect do you think that would have on the attendance?


.You're factoring in nothing other than the gate receipts. Big mistake.

Football is a business now whether you or I like it.

[magpie1892]

Or 5,500 at £10 a ticket and have a full(er) stadium? That is only 2,000 more than walked up which doesn't seem too ambitious a target to meet. It may even incentivise more Accies fans to travel through as well.

Good post.

[magpie1892]

The example that was being used was Hamilton last season, and you said Hibs should try it - I simply applied that to the equivalent game.

So let's say hypothetically that Hibs lowered prices to say £15 for a Saturday 3pm ko game at ER - what effect do you think that would have on the attendance?



Football is a business now whether you or I like it.

I didn't say Hibs should charge a fiver for Hamilton at any point. Please quote me if making such claims.

I think it would depend on a host of factors. Again, that's not what I am proposing.

Yes it is, and I'm surprised that you think I need this pointing out. So it's time it started acting like one, wouldn't you say?

[ahibby]

No one has mentioned yet that the country as a whole is facing financial problems. There will soon be thousands of jobs lost in the public sector which will have a knock on affect on the private sector. Add to that many employees will face wage freezes for the next couple of years; I haven't had one since the recession hit, my last increase was 2008 and god only knows when I will see a rise in line with inflation but it certainly won't be this year. There will be many like me.

Something has to give and some smaller clubs might lead the way.

[Barney McGrew]

I didn't say Hibs should charge a fiver for Hamilton at any point. Please quote me if making such claims.

I think it would depend on a host of factors. Again, that's not what I am proposing.

Yes it is, and I'm surprised that you think I need this pointing out. So it's time it started acting like one, wouldn't you say?

OK, well if you're not going to put any figures on it then I will.

Irvine Meadow Scottish Cup game - £15 a ticket for adults and a good bit lower for concessions and got an attendance of 10,197, including 2-2500 Meadow fans.

Hibs used a variant of your suggested dynamic pricing structure at all five home cup games last season and that was the highest crowd at any of the five. So in practise it doesn't work.

Season Tickets for kids up to 15 years old for £85 max. Ten month interest free payments plans. £135 fan get fan incentive. I'd say that's a business that's trying to attract custom.

[SvenNeil]

Watching the England game this afternoon heard about a family ticket, £60 for 2 adults and 2 children. Great Idea. Adults £20 and kids £10 :agree:

[down-the-slope]

OK, well if you're not going to put any figures on it then I will.

Irvine Meadow Scottish Cup game - £15 a ticket for adults and a good bit lower for concessions and got an attendance of 10,197, including 2-2500 Meadow fans.

Hibs used a variant of your suggested dynamic pricing structure at all five home cup games last season and that was the highest crowd at any of the five. So in practise it doesn't work.

Season Tickets for kids up to 15 years old for £85 max. Ten month interest free payments plans. £135 fan get fan incentive. I'd say that's a business that's trying to attract custom.

:agree:

[magpie1892]

OK, well if you're not going to put any figures on it then I will.

Feel free. I have said that GBP27 for a Sunday game live on telly at the opening of a new stand is too much. If there are any free seats at kick-off, then it will be because others agree with me.

Pump out all the figures you like if it cheers you. Your choice of fixtures, competitions and opposition does strike me as, shall we say, 'selective'? Then you try and tell me what I have said when I have said nothing of the sort. I ask you to quote me and... you suddenly move on. I hope you're kidding yourself because you're not kidding me (or anyone else reading this, I suspect!)


Irvine Meadow Scottish Cup game - £15 a ticket for adults and a good bit lower for concessions and got an attendance of 10,197, including 2-2500 Meadow fans.

Hibs used a variant of your suggested dynamic pricing structure at all five home cup games last season and that was the highest crowd at any of the five. So in practise it doesn't work. They did? I must have missed that. At what price did tickets go on sale and at how many points during that sale period did the price alter? I'm genuinely interested as to how this adoption of dynamic pricing (and you're the first person to mention this, how odd) manifested itself. Selling tickets at a flat GBP15 isn't, I am sorry to report, dynamic pricing. It's called 'selling tickets at GBP15'.


Season Tickets for kids up to 15 years old for £85 max. Ten month interest free payments plans. £135 fan get fan incentive. I'd say that's a business that's trying to attract custom. And I would agree. Again, I'm not sure what your point is.

[marinello59]

Pump out all the figures you like if it cheers you. Your choice of fixtures, competitions and opposition does strike me as, shall we say, 'selective'? Then you try and tell me what I have said when I have said nothing of the sort. I ask you to quote me and... you suddenly move on. I hope you're kidding yourself because you're not kidding me (or anyone else reading this, I suspect!)


Selective or inconvenient? :wink:

[Barney McGrew]

Pump out all the figures you like if it cheers you. Your choice of fixtures, competitions and opposition does strike me as, shall we say, 'selective'?

It's no more selective than the one British example you've come up with so far from 18 years ago to back up your argument :wink:

I'd say five real examples from the last year that were actually at Easter Road would be relevant, no? And they're from cup competitions, the same as your Newcastle example was.

And BTW I did say it was a variant of your suggested pricing. Whether you stagger the pricing as it gets nearer the game or not, it doesn't get away from the fact that vastly reduced prices did not increase the attendances in the way that some people have suugested it would.

[Hibby Bairn]

£27 is equivalent to about 8% of the UK average weekly wage BTW. More than we spend on gas and electricity, more than we spend on petrol and more than we spend per person on food (on average per week).

£55 (adult plus two kids for Gers game) is roughly 16%. Surely that is too much?

[magpie1892]

Selective or inconvenient? :wink:

Selective!

[Andy74]

Feel free. I have said that GBP27 for a Sunday game live on telly at the opening of a new stand is too much. If there are any free seats at kick-off, then it will be because others agree with me.

Pump out all the figures you like if it cheers you. Your choice of fixtures, competitions and opposition does strike me as, shall we say, 'selective'? Then you try and tell me what I have said when I have said nothing of the sort. I ask you to quote me and... you suddenly move on. I hope you're kidding yourself because you're not kidding me (or anyone else reading this, I suspect!)

They did? I must have missed that. At what price did tickets go on sale and at how many points during that sale period did the price alter? I'm genuinely interested as to how this adoption of dynamic pricing (and you're the first person to mention this, how odd) manifested itself. Selling tickets at a flat GBP15 isn't, I am sorry to report, dynamic pricing. It's called 'selling tickets at GBP15'.

And I would agree. Again, I'm not sure what your point is.

If there are empty seats at £27 what does that prove???

i'd rather we got the full income from whatever amount turns up, because, as has been mentioned many times, you will get a core of about 15,000 willing to pay that amount (or already paid on season ticket).

You could set that at £20 and you'd maybeb get 1,000 or so more and i'd even be surprised at that as there is a realtively finite amount of people who will go to this game.

All you'd be doing is making sure you get less income from all the guys who would turn up anyway.

[magpie1892]

It's no more selective than the one British example you've come up with so far from 18 years ago to back up your argument :wink:

I'd say five real examples from the last year that were actually at Easter Road would be relevant, no? And they're from cup competitions, the same as your Newcastle example was.

And BTW I did say it was a variant of your suggested pricing. Whether you stagger the pricing as it gets nearer the game or not, it doesn't get away from the fact that vastly reduced prices did not increase the attendances in the way that some people have suugested it would.

But it's NOT dynamic pricing, nor even a 'variant' of the same... *sigh* and - YOU'RE DOING IT AGAIN - did I say your examples were irrelevant? STOP IT FFS!

And we're way past just the one example now. That's the beauty of threads - other people have pitched in. Hamilton, Killie last game (mine), Dunfermilne got 6,500 for a game last season where it was a fiver (mine), etc. League games, incidentally. More than one example there. There's three from last season. We can now forget Newcastle, although I think it's relevant in that Hibs, like Newcastle, are a club with a big latent support - unlike our Fir Park friends.

[magpie1892]

If there are empty seats at £27 what does that prove???

i'd rather we got the full income from whatever amount turns up, because, as has been mentioned many times, you will get a core of about 15,000 willing to pay that amount (or already paid on season ticket).

You could set that at £20 and you'd maybeb get 1,000 or so more and i'd even be surprised at that as there is a realtively finite amount of people who will go to this game.

All you'd be doing is making sure you get less income from all the guys who would turn up anyway.

It proves that the stadium is not full. When it should be. I assume that Hibs raised the capacity to 20,200 odds in the hope of filling it? That's my take on it anyway.

Your last sentence confirms you're not reading from the same page even as the people who are opposed to the various arguments being proposed here for price reductions/dynamic pricing/marketing initiatives/economic theory, etc.

[Barney McGrew]

Selective!

I've just pointed out ones that are more relevant because they're actually from the ground we're talking about trying to fill rather than ones that are ages old or from another country. If that's selective then I'll plead guilty :cool2:


I don't know why people would claim that reduced pricing doesn't mean that a bigger gate can't be achieved. I've seen it happen.

I've given you five examples from Easter Road from last season that show it doesn't.

[magpie1892]

I've just selected ones that are more relevant because they're actually from the ground we're talking about trying to fill rather than ones that are ages old or from another country. If that's selective then I'll plead guilty :cool2:



I've given you five examples from Easter Road from last season that show it doesn't.

And I've given you four examples from a variety of clubs that shows it does work. So, one can only assume that there is a ley-line of negative energy running down Albion Road or something.

[Barney McGrew]

And I've given you four examples from a variety of clubs that shows it does work. So, one can only assume that there is a ley-line of negative energy running down Albion Road or something.

Do you think the examples that have been given are maybe not quite as relevant as the ones from ER, given that's the ground we're talking about?

BTW, if it was such a successful venture for those other clubs, then how come they didn't repeat it?

[magpie1892]

Do you think the examples that have been given are maybe not quite as relevant as the ones from ER, given that's the ground we're talking about?

Quite the reverse, I think it shows that if it can work in multiple locations elsewhere that Hibs are perhaps doing something wrong. Otherwise we can extrapolate that denizens of the other grounds mentioned must be in some way weird for responding positively to reduced admission except in the Hamilton example the opponents were... Hibs.

This thread has evolved somewhat but the original point was that Sunday's game might not sell out and it could have done without a drop in revenue and with the generation of goodwill/exposure to the club. That's not going to go away.

[marinello59]

]Quite the reverse, I think it shows that if it can work in multiple locations elsewhere[/B] that Hibs are perhaps doing something wrong. Otherwise we can extrapolate that denizens of the other grounds mentioned must be in some way weird for responding positively to reduced admission except in the Hamilton example the opponents were... Hibs.

This thread has evolved somewhat but the original point was that Sunday's game might not sell out and it could have done without a drop in revenue and with the generation of goodwill/exposure to the club. That's not going to go away.

Did the clubs make more money? Was the attendance at the next game up on the back of it? Did the clubs sell more season tickets as a result?

[magpie1892]

BTW, if it was such a successful venture for those other clubs, then how come they didn't repeat it?

Three examples from last season? You're privy to the marketing plans of the three clubs in question and it's not to be repeated this season or ever again?

As for Newcastle, within a couple of months of the Bournemouth game the stadium was more-or-less full for a decade thereafter and 90% full last season in the Championship so no real need to get them in.

[Barney McGrew]

Three examples from last season? You're privy to the marketing plans of the three clubs in question and it's not to be repeated this season or ever again?

Surely if it was the magic solution or they were making more money off the back of it then they'd be doing it every week?

[magpie1892]

Did the clubs make more money? Was the attendance at the next game up on the back of it? Did the clubs sell more season tickets as a result?

No idea. Maybe you should find out and report back here?

Did the big crowd at Rugby Park on the last day of last season help Killie get the result they needed to stay up? Who knows, but I bet it wasn't a hindrance.

I'm struggling to see how a wish to see Easter Road full every week with even a small drop in GATE revenue on the day could be viewed with such suspicion.

[marinello59]

No idea. Maybe you should find out and report back here?

Did the big crowd at Rugby Park on the last day of last season help Killie get the result they needed to stay up? Who knows, but I bet it wasn't a hindrance.

I'm struggling to see how a wish to see Easter Road full every week with even a small drop in GATE revenue on the day could be viewed with such suspicion.

Are you being serious? You are the one who used these examples as having worked. Surely you know the answers? How much more did they make at the catering concessions for example?

[magpie1892]

Surely if it was the magic solution or they were making more money off the back of it then they'd be doing it every week?

You'd imagine so. But a fiver every week isn't, for I think maybe the 12th time, what I am proposing. Can I stress this any more vehemently than I have done? If you continue to tell me (erroneously) what my own argument is, we might as well all pack in!

[magpie1892]

Are you being serious? You are the one who used these examples as having worked. Surely you know the answers? How much more did they make at the catering concessions for example?

I said they increased gates. They did. That is all. Where did I say 'worked'? Anything else is supposition. As in I suppose that 2,000 people will have a greater total spend at catering concessions than 200 people. That's not an incredible position is it? I think it's fairly logical.

I also suppose that having a five-figure attendance at Rugby Park at season's end helped Killie stay up and most likely saved the club (for now) from liquidation. I'd say that would be worth something.

I suspect I am right. You disagree. Convince me of your position.

You're itching to show that the increased gates cited here lost the clubs money, so prove it.

[marinello59]

Quite the reverse, I think it shows that if it can work in multiple locations elsewhere that Hibs are perhaps doing something wrong. Otherwise we can extrapolate that denizens of the other grounds mentioned must be in some way weird for responding positively to reduced admission except in the Hamilton example the opponents were... Hibs.



I said they increased gates. That is all. Where did I say 'worked'? Anything else is supposition. As in I suppose that 2,000 people will have a greater total spend at catering concessions than 200 people. That's not an incredible position is it? I think it's fairly logical.

I also suppose that having a five-figure attendance at Rugby Park at season's end helped Killie stay up and most likely saved the club (for now) from liquidation. I'd say that would be worth something.

I suspect I am right. You disagree. Convince me of your position.

You're itching to show that the increased gates cited here lost the clubs money, so prove it.

You said it above. :confused:

[magpie1892]

You said it above. :confused:

Clever. 'Work' as in increasing gates. Not in any other terms. I'e. those suggested by this: 'Did the clubs make more money? Was the attendance at the next game up on the back of it? Did the clubs sell more season tickets as a result?'

But you knew this.

[down-the-slope]

spend at grub stalls is no individual match benefit to Hibs are they are contracted out....it would need this up lift over a season to increase those deals....

Which comes back to needing ST increase as that allows budgeting over the season and an increase in in contracts like catering / sponsorship etc that need more garuntee of numbers

[magpie1892]

spend at grub stalls is no individual match benefit to Hibs are they are contracted out....it would need this up lift over a season to increase those deals....

Which comes back to needing ST increase as that allows budgeting over the season and an increase in in contracts like catering / sponsorship etc that need more garuntee of numbers

So contract them back in then to take advantage of any significant gate increases or have a contractual obligation in place before the start of the season if you plan to try anything different?

Don't understand your second point.

[marinello59]

I don't think it's outwith the realms of possibility and, as I insinuated further up, the extra bodies means other tangible expenditure and - vitally - goodwill...

So you reckon that to work it should make more money then.


I think we could cut ticket prices significantly for a number of games without reducing wage levels - that was the whole point of my initial argument, that Hibs are but one of many clubs that could fill their stadiums with the implementation of, shall we say, more imaginative pricing structures and marketing techniques without seeing a drop in revenue even as a worst case.




No loss of revenue.
And we can reduce wage levels. Superb.:thumbsup:




If Hibs built this new stand with the intention of filling it - which seems logical - then they need to seriously re-evaluate a number of issues with regard to its support, existing and potential. And I still maintain this 're-evaluation' could be done for no loss of revenue.
y.

Yes, you said that already, no loss of revenue. :agree:




Clever. 'Work' as in increasing gates. Not in any other terms. I'e. those suggested by this: 'Did the clubs make more money? Was the attendance at the next game up on the back of it? Did the clubs sell more season tickets as a result?'

But you knew this.

Ah. So there will be a loss in revenue but that doesn't matter now. Excellent.

[magpie1892]

So you reckon that to work it should make more money then.


No loss of revenue.
And we can reduce wage levels. Superb.:thumbsup:



Yes, you said that already, no loss of revenue. :agree:





Ah. So there will be a loss in revenue but that doesn't matter now. Excellent.

In the case of Killie last season, do you think the bean counters would have been more or less pleased had a full-price gate and subsequent smaller attendance had any effect on the result?

It could be done for no loss of immediate revenue, it could even be done for a small loss - all in my opinion of course. The aim, as I think you're aware but just being a little disingenuous, is to raise turnover/support/exposure/goodwill in the long term.

Otherwise there would be little point in railing against the status quo.

We're really going round in circles here. Is there any point in continuing?

[magpie1892]

So you reckon that to work it should make more money then.


No loss of revenue.
And we can reduce wage levels. Superb.:thumbsup:



Yes, you said that already, no loss of revenue. :agree:





Ah. So there will be a loss in revenue but that doesn't matter now. Excellent.

I said without reducing wage levels, not a reducing them. If you're going to quote me, get it right FFS. You've got my quote up, and then your own interpretation next to it - it doesn't say that. Why do you and DTS keep this up? I guess you're trying to get rid of me. You're close to succeeding!

[down-the-slope]

So contract them back in then to take advantage of any significant gate increases or have a contractual obligation in place before the start of the season if you plan to try anything different?

Don't understand your second point.
Its simple if we have 8000 ST holders and a possible 12000 walk ups now..we can charge more if we have 13,000 season ST holders and 7000 possible walk ups...in terms of sponsorship / food etc etc...its about the gaurantee of number

We need more ST holders and are doing a great job in pricing for this..you can plan / budget with this income / commitment

Walk up fans will always be a much smaller percentage of crowd and are by nature more fickle in attendance for a whole variety or reasons ...well rehersed on here.

[marinello59]

It could be done for no loss of immediate revenue, it could even be done for a small loss - all in my opinion of course. The aim, as I think you're aware but just being a little disingenuous, is to raise turnover/support/exposure/goodwill in the long term.

Otherwise there would be little point in railing against the status quo.


Exactly. I agree. Which is why I asked about season ticket sales, attendances at subsequent games etc. If it has 'worked' at the clubs you used as examples then I assumed that you had information to back this up.

[magpie1892]

Its simple if we have 8000 ST holders and a possible 12000 walk ups now..we can charge more if we have 13,000 season ST holders and 7000 possible walk ups...in terms of sponsorship / food etc etc...its about the gaurantee of number

We need more ST holders and are doing a great job in pricing for this..you can plan / budget with this income / commitment

Walk up fans will always be a much smaller percentage of crowd and are by nature more fickle in attendance for a whole variety or reasons ...well rehersed on here.

Ah, OK.

So no action needed on walk-ups, even if that might be the first step to a season ticket? (as is almost invariably the case - how many people bought a season ticket prior to their first game at ER?)

I agree that decent work is being done with STs. But the whole thing is overpriced. If other countries of comparable GDP/capita can provide a superior product for less money on a similar or smaller TV revenue, then why not the SPL/Hibs? Belgium has NL and German leagues on the doorstep, so the 'England' excuse doesn't hold water. I think it's a case of this is what we're expected to pay and enough people do. Doesn't make it right and it is affecting attendances across the SPL.

[marinello59]

I said without reducing wage levels, not a reducing them. If you're going to quote me, get it right FFS. You've got my quote up, and then your own interpretation next to it - it doesn't say that. Why do you and DTS keep this up? I guess you're trying to get rid of me. You're close to succeeding!

Sorry, I did misread it. You did however go on to say the following.




And, as it happens, I also firmly believe that lower wages on offer in Scotland (and we're talking maybe 20% here - not going to interfere with your livelihood) could be achieved without a drop in quality of the product



I misread that as well as you saying that we could cut wages by 20% without a drop in quality of the product. Sorry.

[magpie1892]

Exactly. I agree. Which is why I asked about season ticket sales, attendances at subsequent games etc. If it has 'worked' at the clubs you used as examples then I assumed that you had information to back this up.

It worked in terms of lower price = increased attendance. That was all I claimed. Fro the second time, I made only suppositions about the benefits to the club, though I am not sure I made any crazy suggestions.

I assume you have the information to negate my suppositions? If not, then it's little more than an opinion, the same cards that I am holding.

You disagree, that is clear, but I need more than being misquoted and your own suppositions to give me a clear sight of your argument. If it's just 'I disagree' then fine, we'll agree to differ. No harm done (though this argument stopped being the 'good' one you crave some time ago).

[magpie1892]

Sorry, I did misread it. You did however go on to say the following.



I misread that as well as you saying that we could cut wages by 20% without a drop in quality of the product. Sorry.

I do believe that wages could be cut and quality not suffer. I think that's entirely possible across the SPL. I think it will come to pass as well, it has to. I stand by that, it's only related to Hibs in that they play in Scotland.

[marinello59]

It worked in terms of lower price = increased attendance. That was all I claimed. Fro the second time, I made only suppositions about the benefits to the club, though I am not sure I made any crazy suggestions.

I assume you have the information to negate my suppositions? If not, then it's little more than an opinion, the same cards that I am holding.

You disagree, that is clear, but I need more than being misquoted and your own suppositions to give me a clear sight of your argument. If it's just 'I disagree' then fine, we'll agree to differ. No harm done (though this argument stopped being the 'good' one you crave some time ago).

Probably the best option.:greengrin

[Hibby Bairn]

Either way, the 'product' which I have paid for up front for me, two boys and a father-in-law, won't be consumed on the 22nd because it is a Sunday and both boys play football like thousands of other kids in Edinburgh that day. So even if they sell out the other 20,000 odd tickets it won't be capacity because at least 3 won't be there. Maybe partly the reason why people opt for choosing not to buy a ST.

[magpie1892]

Probably the best option.:greengrin

Maybe so!

Allow me to remain pessimistic about Scottish football in general.

[marinello59]

Maybe so!

Allow me to remain pessimistic about Scottish football in general.

Allow you? I'll join you.

[magpie1892]

Allow you? I'll join you.

We're nowhere near bottom yet.

Prices are going to have to come down.

This needs to be addressed now.

[marinello59]

We're nowhere near bottom yet.

Prices are going to have to come down.

This needs to be addressed now.

I ain't getting on that treadmill with you again.:greengrin

[magpie1892]

I ain't getting on that treadmill with you again.:greengrin

S'ok, I'm drained from this afternoon's debate.

I think both camps remain pretty much as they were at the top.

[Iggy Pope]

Precisely.

In fact, in doubling the gate the club probably made more money through pies, programmes etc. and, I dare say, there were a fair few 'SJP virgins' that night and it's a nonsense to suggest that not one ever came back.

I see the idea of dynamic pricing has been attacked on the basis that as no-one is doing it (an erroneous standpoint - Roma stagger their prices over time to kick-off but their a two-bit outfit and we shouldn't aspire to that level of mediocrity) but I don't know why people would claim that reduced pricing doesn't mean that a bigger gate can't be achieved. I've seen it happen.

Now this has been a lively debate, full of information, mis-information, calculation and counter-calculation, but what does this skinny cow have to do with the price of eggs?
:dizzy:

[magpie1892]

Now this has been a lively debate, full of information, mis-information, calculation and counter-calculation, but what does this skinny cow have to do with the price of eggs?
:dizzy:


Christ, do I have to?

I was at St James Park in 1992 at an FAC3R that had previously been abandoned and the replayed tie was half price to get in. The gate doubled from the first game and I am saying that of the number of people within the crowd that night who were first time visitors to SJP, it would be highly unlikely that none would have returned.

Hence reduced price not only = bigger gate, but an opp. to bring new faces in that are attracted by, if you like, an 'introductory offer'.

Got it? :cool2: