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View Poll Results: What is your attitude to a new "Rangers" entering at Div1?

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  • Opposed - and will walk away from Scottish professional football

    533 53.09%
  • Opposed - but will continue to support the game.

    447 44.52%
  • In favour.

    24 2.39%
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  1. #18151
    @hibs.net private member lapsedhibee's Avatar
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    What If There's No Santa?

    Longish but goodish analysis of the Donkey Pack's public position by Henry Clarson:

    What If There’s No Santa?

    “If Santa knows that you’re being bad, you’ll not get any presents on Christmas Day.”
    Were any of us not subjected to that threat at some point in our childhood?

    What a brilliant way to keep someone in line! Invent a myth, keep repeating it until you convince your weans that it’s true and then use it to manipulate them according to your wishes. As a child, I sometimes wondered about the logistics of this remarkable operation. We all did.
    The whole world? In one night? Presents for every single well-behaved child? All carried on one sleigh? Seriously?

    It seemed that something didn’t quite add up here but wherever I looked, everyone confirmed the reality of Santa. Parents, relatives, neighbours, teachers, random strangers all had their stories straight. Television programmes and adverts, grottos in department stores, pictures on billboards, songs on the radio, each provided further evidence that nobody except me had even noticed any of the inherent inconsistencies about this extraordinary person and his work.
    Why don’t all the starving children in Africa ask for enough food to keep them alive?
    If his elves are making all these toys themselves, how come they look exactly the same as the ones in the shops?
    What’s the point of the shops trying to sell Airfix Lancaster bomber model kits or Subbuteo sets if everyone can get one for nothing?
    It didn’t make sense.

    On the other hand, I had a suspicion that it might be unwise to express too much scepticism. It might even cost me a train set.
    By all accounts, only people who actually believed in Santa got presents from him.
    It finally came to the point when I not only knew beyond reasonable doubt that Santa must be a myth; I also realised that I had been surrounded by liars for years. But no sooner had I become cognisant of the Great Deception than the liars invited me to join their conspiracy. There were younger siblings and cousins who had to remain deceived and it wouldn’t do for me to blow the whistle. I calculated that by publicly maintaining the pretence that I believed in Santa, I might be able to raise the stakes for next Christmas. It was to be a red bicycle or else.

    (At this point I must apologise to any readers who hadn’t yet heard the bad news that there is no Santa. If it’s any consolation, Graham Speirs knew this three weeks ago before anyone else although he didn’t bother to write about it. In any case, in a few months time the Daily Record will claim that it was the first to break the story.)

    As with the Santa myth, so with the Rangers myths. One of the recurring myths is that Rangers are a financial powerhouse, an economic engine which supplies Scottish football with huge revenues upon which almost every club is almost totally reliant. According to myth, even Celtic need Rangers.

    Celtic have long since grown up and don’t believe in Rangers so they have dismissed that myth. Many other clubs, however, are holding out for a red bicycle. Some will settle for a train set. So long as they are compliant and believe in Rangers, they’ll get something for nothing in defiance of all logic.

    Over the course of the last decade, the mighty Rangers economic powerhouse ran itself into the ground. If the tax authorities know anything about taxes – and it seems to me to be a reasonable starting assumption that they know quite a lot – we can go on to assume that when Rangers crashed into oblivion, the hole they were in was about £140 million deep. In truth it is even deeper.

    On top of the money owed to hundreds of creditors there are previous matters to consider. In 2004, the mythical billionaire Minty Moonbeams reportedly squirted a £51.4 million pound “injection” into Rangers simmering accounts after a rights issue was formulated to reduce the club’s then £73.9 million debt. In truth, the attempt to raise capital was a catastrophic failure and Murray MHL Limited, which had underwritten the share issue, was obliged to take the hit. In effect, all that happened was that some paperwork was signed so that a £50 million debt to HBOS was shifted sideways from one basket case Murray business in Ibrox to another, even worse one in Edinburgh.
    The debt was never paid back before HBOS croaked. It was subsequently picked up by the tax-payer as part of Gordon Brown’s £37 billion rescue package to maintain the lifestyles of corrupt, fraudulent banksters and their cronies. We’re now getting close to £200 million of Rangers damage to other parties. But say nothing. There might be a red bicycle in it for you.

    Meanwhile, despite running up the longest series of consecutive 0-3 defeats in the history of football, Rangers were awarded the championship titles on five occasions during this period, thus enabling the SPL to divert millions of pounds of prize money away from the rightful league winners and into the colossal overdraft of the mythical economic powerhouse. The SFA, hoping for a red bicycle, duly notified UEFA that Rangers would represent Scotland in the Champions league in the following season. Tens of millions of pounds worth of prize money would never reach the club which had really earned that place by playing the game according to the rules.
    Five seasons of SPL and Champions League prize money take the damage up to the quarter of a billion pound mark. Yet the economic powerhouse still went bust.

    There have been other substantial cash investments from dubious sources. Dave King still faces hundreds of charges of fraud, tax evasion and money-laundering in South Africa on an industrial scale. At the last count, I made it 322 charges in all. The money laundering activities relate to drugs-running operations, illegal arms deals, child pornography and a host of other unwholesome activities. Fortunately for Rangers, £25 million of the proceeds of those disgusting enterprises found its way into Dick Advocat’s warchest. Red bicycles for everyone who sees no connection.

    In 1992, Joe Lewis made his fortune by launching an all out attack on the UK’s currency reserves which cost the nation a minimum of £3.4 billion pounds on Black Wednesday. To balance up the damage done to the economy, Lewis dribbled £40 million into Ibrox economic powerhouse. Red bicycles for everyone who believes forty million pounds minus three point four billion pounds equals a positive balance. No need to show your working; just believe.

    And on and on and on.
    Just over a year ago, Chief Constable of Strathclyde Police Stephen House was so convinced by the magnitude of Rangers’ contribution to society that he dominated the news headlines for days with his calls for ‘Old Firm’ games to be played behind closed doors or even banned altogether. Police Federation Spokesman, Les Gray, repeatedly rammed home a similar message that the country could no longer afford to bear the financial cost to the police, A&E, ambulance services and so on.
    Ignore all that and collect your red bicycle on Christmas Day.

    Regardless of all that, here is the truth.
    The SFL and SFA, amongst others, have dedicated themselves to the perpetuation of the Rangers Myth.
    They worship at the shrine of a fake god which they have created themselves. They warn of dire consequences if puny mortals fail to venerate this mighty deity. They sacrifice honour, justice and honesty at the altar of their idol. They glorify their god through acts of bare-faced hypocrisy, blatant match-fixing and stinking corruption.

    For red bicycles and Santa, read SPL money and television.
    For Rudolf defying the laws of aerodynamics, read Rangers defying the fundamentals of economics.
    Just as Santa could only complete his night’s work by travelling faster than the speed of light, contrary to every principle of physics, so Zombie Huns can only compete in Scottish football if every inconvenient rule is deliberately broken and every sporting principle is ignored.

    To those who staunchly, defiantly believe in Rangers, despite all the evidence, this is as straightforward as believing in Santa Claus.
    They just have to ignore the overwhelming proofs that what they want to believe cannot possibly be true. They’ll see one club recklessly spending everyone else’s money and they’ll call it generating revenue. They’ll see tax evasion, fraud and cheating but they’ll call it financial might, vision and dignity. They must wilfully ignore that even when the now-defunct club was at its most successful it still sucked far more money out of society than it put in.
    They are determined to perpetuate the myth of Rangers for the sake of a red bicycle.

    But the facts are laid bare for all to see. Zombie Huns, and Rangers before them, are no more a linchpin of a successful, solvent, sustainable Scottish football set-up than a letter to Santa is a solution to the banking crisis.


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  3. #18152
    Testimonial Due Prof. Shaggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reallapsedhibee View Post
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    Longish but goodish analysis of the Donkey Pack's public position by Henry Clarson:

    What If There’s No Santa?
    Ssshhh....

  4. #18153
    @hibs.net private member Bostonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitlochry hibee View Post
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    For our esteemed poster, Blueisthecolour.....

    Annan Athletic - Galabank, capacity 3000 they are down the way from Ibrox
    Berwick Rangers - Shielfield Park, ENGLAND (scene of your 'greatest game in history'), capacity 4131 Over the border, in case you had forgotten
    Clyde - Broadwood stadium, capacity 8029 What's it called? Cumbernauld
    East Stirling - Ochilview, capacity 3776 ground share with Stenny
    Elgin City -Boroughbriggs, capacity 4927 up north
    Montrose - Links Park, capacity 3292 nothing to do with sausages, it is by the seaside
    Peterhead - Balmoor, capacity 4000, you probably know Peterhead, there's a big hoose there
    Queen's Park - Hampden Park, capacity 52000 the largest ground in the SFL 3 and the chance for a newco-firm derby
    Stirling Albion - Forthbank, capacity 3808 stuck in the middle of an industrial estate

    Enjoy the journey


    Any direct flights from Belfast?

    "I did not need any persuasion to play for such a great club, the Hibs result is still one of the first I look for"

    Sir Matt Busby

  5. #18154
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.

  6. #18155
    Coaching Staff Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitlochry hibee View Post
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    10 things you may not have known about the Scottish third division1) Rangers (assuming they are allowed to keep their history) can now become the first club to win all four Scottish divisions.
    2) Sevco Scotland Ltd has been granted associate membership of the SFL, which means that they will have no voting rights for three years.
    3) The SFL is sponsored by Irn-Bru, Scotland's other national drink. It's understood that drinks giant Barrs supply product rather than cash for the bulk of the deal.
    4) Sevco will have only the second-biggest ground in Division Three. Queen's Park's capacity at Hampden is 52,500 - 1,418 more fans than Ibrox can hold.
    5) Two of the clubs in the Third Division, Alloa Athletic and Annan Athletic, have never played a competitive match against Rangers in any of their previous incarnations.
    6) Only two of the Third Division sides have faced Rangers (as was) in a league match. Clyde last played them for points at Shawfield on Feb 22 1975 while amateurs Queen's Park, in their last season in the top flight, won 2-1 at Ibrox on March 20, 1948.
    7) There will be a scramble for tickets for away matches, particularly at Annan's Galabank, which has a capacity of 2007, with only 500 seats.
    8) No Third Division club has ever reached the final of the Scottish Cup or the League Cup.
    9) By joining the SFL, Sevco (assuming they are allowed to keep Rangers' history) will have the chance to add the Ramsdens Cup to their list of trophies won.
    10) According to the SFL's website, Ramsdens is “the largest independently owned pawnbroking and financial services business in the UK.”
    So instead of Audis their players can now expect perks like free crates of irn bru! Marvellous!

    Still want to know about how the gate money is split though. Surely a 75/25 split should be getting rushed through. Things like fairer distribution of TV, sponsors money are red herrings.

  7. #18156
    @hibs.net private member ginger_rice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitlochry hibee View Post
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    [B]
    9) By joining the SFL, Sevco (assuming they are allowed to keep Rangers' history) will have the chance to add the Ramsdens Cup to their list of trophies won.
    10) According to the SFL's website, Ramsdens is “the largest independently owned pawnbroking and financial services business in the UK.”
    And there was me thinking it was the chip shop Harry Ramsdens that was the sponsor
    "Football should always be played beautifully, you should play in an attacking way, it must be a spectacle". Johan Cruyff.

  8. #18157
    Something that intrigues me and doesn't appear to have been picked uop by our (n)ever vigilant hacks such as Young and Traynor.

    When Rangers transfer embargo was announced our good friend Ally McCoist was very quickly into his stride on TV, radio and in the press demanding that these 'faceless' men who had made the decision were named and demanding 'transparency'

    And now I read that Messrs McCoist and Greene only spoke at the SFL meeting if they were accorded complete confidentiality!!!!

    Could we get Messrs Young and Traynor, and Mr McCoist, if one of our august hacks can put the question to him, how this contradiction has happened.

    Transparency, Ally wouldn't know the meaning of the word.

  9. #18158
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    Oh dear, this doesn't sound very promising...

    http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/s...medium=twitter

    St Mirren chairman Stewart Gilmour has hit out at Scottish Football League chairmen after they vote a Rangers newco into the Third Division.

    Representatives from 30 member clubs overwhelmingly decided Sevco Scotland Limited must play in the bottom tier of the league structure after rejecting proposals which could have seen the Ibrox side play in the First Division. Gilmour was one of ten SPL chairmen to vote against admitting Charles Green’s new company into Scottish football’s top flight earlier this month.

    In an interview with the Paisley Daily Express the Buddies chief says the SFL’s decision has done damage to the game.
    He told the paper: “This is horrific news for St Mirren Football Club. The consequences are terrible – catastrophic even.

    “What happens next? Well, there is an SPL meeting on Monday and we will need to see what is said then and take it from there.
    “The St Mirren board will meet in the days after that SPL meeting and decide what is the best way forward but we are already looking at major redundancies.”

    Scottish FA chief executive Stewart Regan has come under pressure in recent days over his handling of the situation.
    However Gilmour added: “To be fair to Stewart Regan, the document he released last week was a good document.
    “It set out changes to Scottish football that would bring in a fairer structure, fairer distribution system, fairer everything.
    “Unfortunately, the people in the SFL have not bought into that. I just hope they realise the damage they have done to Scottish football.

    “Five clubs in the SPL could be in administration within weeks – and we will have to do everything we can to avoid being one of them.”

    Speculation continues over the possible creation of an SPL2, however Gilmour appeared to dismiss the idea.
    He said: “The SFA and the other bodies are already talking about the options and that could be decided on Monday.
    “As for an SPL 2, I’m not sure that is any better than letting Rangers back into the top flight.”

  10. #18159
    No surprise with this report

    Call for 'no confidence' in Stewart Regan in wake of Rangers vote

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18841325

  11. #18160
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    Just reading the interview back again - this is a shocking thing to say.

    Unfortunately, the people in the SFL have not bought into that. I just hope they realise the damage they have done to Scottish football.

  12. #18161
    @hibs.net private member greenginger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    Oh dear, this doesn't sound very promising...

    http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/s...medium=twitter

    I thought St Mirren were one of the debt free clubs in the SPL. All they have to do is not to spend more than they earn unless they have a facility with their bank. Simples !

  13. #18162
    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    Oh dear, this doesn't sound very promising...

    http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/s...medium=twitter
    That doesn't make any sense...

    He sounds like he is still opposed to Rangers in the SPL at the end there, thinks SPL2 is a bad idea, so what exactly was his preferred outcome then?


    Its a bit much for SPL clubs to cast Rangers out, then start crying that the SFL sides took the same attitude. If clubs haven't been at least making plans for this outcome, which has been on the cards since at least Valentines Day, then more full them frankly.

  14. #18163
    Left by mutual consent! Hibercelona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    Oh dear, this doesn't sound very promising...

    http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/s...medium=twitter
    What an erse.

    What was his idea in the beginning? We'll vote no to Sevco in the SPL to win over our fans and hopefully the SFL clubs bottle it for us?

    Seriously.... imagine attacking the SFL for doing the right thing.

    Total fud.

  15. #18164
    Coaching Staff Waxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottB View Post
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    That doesn't make any sense...

    He sounds like he is still opposed to Rangers in the SPL at the end there, thinks SPL2 is a bad idea, so what exactly was his preferred outcome then?


    Its a bit much for SPL clubs to cast Rangers out, then start crying that the SFL sides took the same attitude. If clubs haven't been at least making plans for this outcome, which has been on the cards since at least Valentines Day, then more full them frankly.
    Looks like certain people are offering large sums of cash in return for a change of mind.........The corruption continues.

  16. #18165
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    Dundee Utd making their position clear. Well done Arabs.

    http://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/inde...OUONM.facebook

    Following yesterday's democratic vote by the SFL clubs in favour of admitting The Rangers Football Club as an associate member of the SFL, but with the Third Division being the only acceptable position, Dundee United will now focus on our upcoming campaign while working together with the other SPL clubs to ensure the stability of the SPL and Scottish football in what will be an uncertain and extremely challenging financial environment.

    For the avoidance of doubt, following yesterday's vote, the Club would not support any counter proposals for the formation of SPL 2 or regarding any other route for The Rangers Football Club to join the SPL.

    Now is the time for everyone to be united as one and we ask our supporters to stand alongside us as we face the challenges ahead.

  17. #18166
    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    Dundee Utd making their position clear. Well done Arabs.

    http://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/inde...OUONM.facebook
    Great statement from united, time for others to follow suit.

  18. #18167
    @hibs.net private member lapsedhibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottB View Post
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    That doesn't make any sense...

    He sounds like he is still opposed to Rangers in the SPL at the end there, thinks SPL2 is a bad idea, so what exactly was his preferred outcome then?


    Its a bit much for SPL clubs to cast Rangers out, then start crying that the SFL sides took the same attitude. If clubs haven't been at least making plans for this outcome, which has been on the cards since at least Valentines Day, then more full them frankly.
    Perhaps St Mirren were led to believe by one or more of the Donkey Pack that casting DodoHun out of the SPL guaranteed that SevcoHun would play in D1.

    Perhaps when he says that SPL2 for SevcoHun would be no better than SPL, he is paving the way for voting SevcoHun into the SPL.

  19. #18168
    St mirren and caley now just as bad as killie

  20. #18169
    @hibs.net private member MrSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottB View Post
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    That doesn't make any sense...

    He sounds like he is still opposed to Rangers in the SPL at the end there, thinks SPL2 is a bad idea, so what exactly was his preferred outcome then?


    Its a bit much for SPL clubs to cast Rangers out, then start crying that the SFL sides took the same attitude. If clubs haven't been at least making plans for this outcome, which has been on the cards since at least Valentines Day, then more full them frankly.
    Unbelievable! Does this form the majority opinion of SPL chairman??? If so, do not buy a season ticket until it is all completely over! Machiavellian plot is still on!

    I'm perplexed by this statement! What the f*** did he expect? The fans have spoken, the SFL chairmen have played their part and protected 'sporting integrity/fairness, albeit for their own agenda to take shape. However, as it stands Monday is going to be fun-filled day!
    Last edited by MrSmith; 14-07-2012 at 05:18 PM.

  21. #18170
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    Perhaps St Mirren are suddenly regretting arranging a week long pre-season training camp in Spain?

  22. #18171
    'S' Form sauzee's fan's Avatar
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    11,000 at dundee v dundee united friendly today..........enough said

    who needs those horrible cheating thieving weej **** anyway...i'll tell you not us(scottish football)!!!!!!!!!!!

  23. #18172
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    Deary me, blaming the SFL for no doing their dirty work for them. Suggests tae me that the scheming was always the intention of at least some of them in voting no tae sevco in the SPL and **** all tae dae with doing the right thing. Too bad others chose tae tae the right thing and refused tae be bullied and blackmailed.

  24. #18173
    @hibs.net private member HibbyAndy's Avatar
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    That's an absolute superb turnout if true..Well done the Dundonians!.

  25. #18174
    Dundee should be club 12 I hope.

  26. #18175
    Testimonial Due At The Edge's Avatar
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    Hearts David Southern spoke on Sportsound today re the SPL AGM on Monday , looks like Hearts are against any change on whats been voted on.

    "Nothing has been mentioned to us as a club that that is on the agenda for discussion," Hearts manager director David Southern told BBC Radio Scotland's Sportsound programme.
    "We think it would be a very, very short discussion indeed.
    "Rangers, as has been elected, will play in Division Three. That's how it stands at the moment, that's how we fully expect it to stand at 17:00 BST on Monday."
    When asked if he expected an SPL2 to be discussed, Southern responded: "It's certainly not been mentioned to us and, again, it's not particularly something we would be looking to entertain."

  27. #18176
    These clubs are just going to have to cut their cloth. Maybe they can pick up some huns who don't want to watch Sevco in sfl 3?

  28. #18177
    'S' Form phantomscotsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    Dundee Utd making their position clear. Well done Arabs.

    http://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/inde...OUONM.facebook



  29. #18178
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Southern View Post
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    That's how it stands at the moment, that's how we fully expect it to stand at 17:00 BST on Monday."
    That's an odd turn of phrase...

  30. #18179
    Quote Originally Posted by Pitlochry hibee View Post
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    For our esteemed poster, Blueisthecolour.....

    Annan Athletic - Galabank, capacity 3000 they are down the way from Ibrox
    Berwick Rangers - Shielfield Park, ENGLAND (scene of your 'greatest game in history'), capacity 4131 Over the border, in case you had forgotten
    Clyde - Broadwood stadium, capacity 8029 What's it called? Cumbernauld
    East Stirling - Ochilview, capacity 3776 ground share with Stenny
    Elgin City -Boroughbriggs, capacity 4927 up north
    Montrose - Links Park, capacity 3292 nothing to do with sausages, it is by the seaside
    Peterhead - Balmoor, capacity 4000, you probably know Peterhead, there's a big hoose there
    Queen's Park - Hampden Park, capacity 52000 the largest ground in the SFL 3 and the chance for a newco-firm derby
    Stirling Albion - Forthbank, capacity 3808 stuck in the middle of an industrial estate

    Enjoy the journey
    Enjoy the journey is what im planing to do, thanks for the info though, lets just hope there is no change of plans to try get us back in to spl, we are happy to start in division 3 and see where it takes us.

  31. #18180
    Testimonial due Baldy Foghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    Oh dear, this doesn't sound very promising...

    http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/s...medium=twitter
    Pathetic interview with Gilmour........If 5 teams could go into administration as he forecasts, the teams must have pretty poor business models if Derhun monies are keeping them afloat.........Or it is more wholly inappropriate scaremongering......
    "There's class, there's first class and there's Hibs class" - Eddie Turnbull

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