Livingston v Hibs (Wednesday)

[silverhibee]

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He wouldn't come as a number 1!

He wants back in to football, he will have to start somewhere, why not Hibs.

[madhatter]

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That's not what we want though. Nearly every thread on here has some post on it saying we should be third at least. We've had decent cup runs-no real success since 2016. For many, its the style as well. We achieved that objective last season-many people bemoaned the style, though. There have been many comments on here criticising the lack of entertainment. If we win a few more games this season and end up 5th or 6th, then Ross has achieved what you say. In that case, what point in change?

I never argued that top six and a decent cup run is all we want. I was arguing for why a manager would happily come to Hibs - decent salary and the absolute minimum to stay in the job should be relatively easy to achieve based on spending power (4-5 teams with much lower spending power).

Style can ultimately lead to success though. Maybe style is the wrong word. Philosophy is possibly better.

At a total different level but Klopp, Pep, Ranieri, Tuchel, Rodgers, Potter...their teams play in a certain way and they recruit players to suit that way (or players they can train to play that way). Closer to home - Ange at Celtic has a style he wants to play. They do not recruit players based on having a decent squad on paper. Most of the teams have a recognisable way of playing, some have a high press and aggressive nature (normally due to their clout within the league) and some have a lower block and counter attack with pace in their team. The fact we are currently a counter-attack team that relies on a game opening up so we can get Boyle running with yards of space is absolutely ludicrous in our league. We should be able to form something better than that. I complained about the style last season as I had concerns over when other teams improved, there were clear signs - the losses in the cups and the ridiculous thrashings we got from Livi and Ross County if memory serves me. This team has not been built to attack and nothing about JR's transfer windows has suggested we will recruit flair players to open up teams and create space.

If you cannot see a point in changing manager based on the run we are currently on and the football on display recently then I don't think there is much debate to be had. It goes beyond manager in fairness to JR, Hibs are in a bad place but are trying to convince us that things will turn some time in the future, power of positive vibes stuff rather than substance.

[silverhibee]

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Shaun Maloney would be a great shout SH. Terrific career and now experienced coach and international No 2. I think he’d need a wise head next to him who has good knowledge of the wider markets.

Only here good things about Maloney, would be adventurous shout but we have to try something different.

[WeeRussell]

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I’m sure MWHIBBIES will defend himself, but maybe he’s getting it tight because he comes across as if he’s the expert and those of us who don’t agree with him don’t know what we are talking about. Only yesterday he was telling everyone we’d improved and Ross was definitely going to turn things round. Now according to him it’s time for a new manager……

It’s not always about having a different opinion, it’s often about how you put that opinion across.

I get that Jeffers - I’m often at odds with MWHIBBIES posts on here myself. I just genuinely don’t recollect his posts being that bad/defensive of Jack Ross and more objecting to some of the unnecessary comments thrown at the manager, similar to how I’d like to think I’ve been. But also I don’t read .net every day and clearly miss a lot of exchanges on a much talked about topic just now so happy to concede I may have assessed that wrong.

I don’t mind admitting I struggle to see how Jack Ross turns it round from here (perhaps with the exception of winning the cup!) having thought he would a couple of weeks ago, but I still find the assaults on his interviews etc poor.

As Stuart alluded to, emotions are high and we all want the same thing.

Best to refrain from posting when I’m this mood I’ll admit. And sorry to Stuart for jumping in and commenting in said mood. Wasn’t needed.

[B.H.F.C]

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Yep, but we keep on dishing out the contracts.

Talking about this leaving the game tonight. JDH being extended until 2025 based on nothing. Josh Campbell the same based on not very much. We’ll continue going round in circles with the same average players in defence as well.

[Stuart93]

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I get that Jeffers - I’m often at odds with MWHIBBIES posts on here myself. I just genuinely don’t recollect his posts being that bad/defensive of Jack Ross and more objecting to some of the unnecessary comments thrown at the manager, similar to how I’d like to think I’ve been. But also I don’t read .net every day and clearly miss a lot of exchanges on a much talked about topic just now so happy to concede I may have assessed that wrong.

I don’t mind admitting I struggle to see how Jack Ross turns it round from here (perhaps with the exception of winning the cup!) having thought he would a couple of weeks ago, but I still find the assaults on his interviews etc poor.

As Stuart alluded to, emotions are high and we all want the same thing.

Best to refrain from posting when I’m this mood I’ll admit.

I also post too often when I’m pissed off after a game and probably say things that, on reflection, I potentially shouldn’t have

There’s no harm done though. We’re all feeling the same way tonight

[Callum_62]

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Talking about this leaving the game tonight. JDH being extended until 2025 based on nothing. Josh Campbell the same based on not very much. We’ll continue going round in circles with the same average players in defence as well.

I'm guessing it's based on seeing them day in day out and making a judgement on there growth potential

JDH was probably out top performer pre covid too

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[SteveHFC]

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Yup, I’ve said it for ages and been slaughtered for it too.

Not good enough, along with Stevenson, McGregor and gray but get silly new contracts and fans who agree with it based on sentiment.

Hanlon as captain is an absolute ****ing joke

Hanlon should be dropped from his role as captain but there's no leadership in that team at all for anyoen to takeover as captain.

[MWHIBBIES]

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I’m sure MWHIBBIES will defend himself, but maybe he’s getting it tight because he comes across as if he’s the expert and those of us who don’t agree with him don’t know what we are talking about. Only yesterday he was telling everyone we’d improved and Ross was definitely going to turn things round. Now according to him it’s time for a new manager……

It’s not always about having a different opinion, it’s often about how you put that opinion across.

And now presented with new evidence I've changed my opinion slightly. I've always found that a good quality in a person. Not on Hibs.net apparently...

I only ever get into daft arguments with people when they post rubbish or are rude to me. 90% of my conversations on here are absolutely fine.

[WeeRussell]

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I also post too often when I’m pissed off after a game and probably say things that, on reflection, I potentially shouldn’t have

There’s no harm done though. We’re all feeling the same way tonight

At least we can’t be accused of being jambos when getting each other so wound up after a game away to f****** Livingston! 😞

[Since452]

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Yes.

Took Hamilton from struggling league below to winning the Championship as player manager part time beating us in the final. Spent the next six months playing great football with Hamilton, winning in Glasgow, leaving them for third.

Took Norwich up to the EPL.

He would 100% be my choice for new manager. He wouldn't take ***** either.

Not too dissimilar to Jack Ross.

[GreenCastle]

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Shaun Maloney would be a great shout SH. Terrific career and now experienced coach and international No 2. I think he’d need a wise head next to him who has good knowledge of the wider markets.

Maloney isn't coming to Hibs to work in a relegation / trying to get us into top 6.

He's got a World Cup to prepare for and is working with some of the best players in the world.

[jeffers]

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I get that Jeffers - I’m often at odds with MWHIBBIES posts on here myself. I just genuinely don’t recollect his posts being that bad/defensive of Jack Ross and more objecting to some of the unnecessary comments thrown at the manager, similar to how I’d like to think I’ve been. But also I don’t read .net every day and clearly miss a lot of exchanges on a much talked about topic just now so happy to concede I may have assessed that wrong.

I don’t mind admitting I struggle to see how Jack Ross turns it round from here (perhaps with the exception of winning the cup!) having thought he would a couple of weeks ago, but I still find the assaults on his interviews etc poor.

As Stuart alluded to, emotions are high and we all want the same thing.

Best to refrain from posting when I’m this mood I’ll admit. And sorry to Stuart for jumping in and commenting in said mood. Wasn’t needed.

Tbf WR like it said it’s not always the content, more how it’s put across. Maybe that’s just me though.

I’ve argued with my mates about Ross since the St J semi and always felt he’d leave because the fans had turned rather than him being headhunted. To me he’s a decent manager, no more than that. I take no pleasure in appearing to be right about that. I don’t want the upheaval of bringing in someone new, but maybe it’s better to do so now than allow him to bring in the players he wants in January, players another manager might not necessarily want.

[NC1875]

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Not too dissimilar to Jack Ross.

Jack Ross couldn’t get Sunderland out of League One with a massive budget. Never mind a promotion to the premier league.

Alex Neil would do for me.

[The 90+2]

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Not too dissimilar to Jack Ross.

Apart from gaining promotion to the biggest league in the world after leading part time hamilton to third in the Premiership from the league below?

Ross failed to get the biggest club by miles in L1 up. And I like Jack.

I would also ask Paul Lambert if he would like a fresh start up here.

[The 90+2]

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Maloney isn't coming to Hibs to work in a relegation / trying to get us into top 6.

He's got a World Cup to prepare for and is working with some of the best players in the world.

That would only be for six months if it was to happen at all.

Saying that if Kennedy turned us down then I can't see Maloney saying aye.

[wookie70]

The whole playing side should be embarrassed by that performance. A complete lack of effort and application after Livi scored. I'm a bit meh about Ross and I think he does have a difficult job to do. The squad was far too small particularly up front. He has ended up not having a 9 and not having a replacement and then forcing a 10 to play 9 who simply can't do it. Our game changers barring Boyle only have one side to their game and we have our only two dimensional midfielder injured for the poor run of form. I had no thoughts about him leaving or being sacked until he bowed to the crowd and brought Allan and Doidge on at halftime. As soon as he did I felt the game was lost and I certainly lost some respect for Ross as I thought those subs were for the crowd rather than the club.

Doidge is so far off being ready it is hard to watch and when Campbell went off the little urgency we had completely disappeared. Allan actually did his best work in defence tonight but we gave up the fight with the subs and it was all very predictable that Livi took control of the game and we stood like statues when in possession with players passing the buck rather than the ball.

So many players have deserved to be dropped but the squad is so poor the replacements wouldn't be much better. I'd stick Campbell in for JDH or Newell just to give us a bit of urgency in the middle and play Gullan with Nisbet. The first thing I would do though is get Stevenson back in the team and give Doig a rest.

Ross will do well to survive this horrific run but I think I would persevere for a little longer particularly as we have a couple of attackers already coming in during the winter break and possibly a few more changes to give the squad more options.

[WeeRussell]

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Tbf WR like it said it’s not always the content, more how it’s put across. Maybe that’s just me though.

I’ve argued with my mates about Ross since the St J semi and always felt he’d leave because the fans had turned rather than him being headhunted. To me he’s a decent manager, no more than that. I take no pleasure in appearing to be right about that. I don’t want the upheaval of bringing in someone new, but maybe it’s better to do so now than allow him to bring in the players he wants in January, players another manager might not necessarily want.

Hard to argue with that Jeffers. Here’s hoping if what seems like the inevitable does happen… it’s more of a bounce than a noticeable upheaval.

I find it all really frustrating as I genuinely don’t think we should be far off from being a really good side. And I guess there rests the case for the prosecution…

[brianmc]

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Apart from gaining promotion to the biggest league in the world after leading part time hamilton to third in the Premiership from the league below?

Ross failed to get the biggest club by miles in L1 up. And I like Jack.

I would also ask Paul Lambert if he would like a fresh start up here.

Paul Lambert? Really??

[Since452]

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Jack Ross couldn’t get Sunderland out of League One with a massive budget. Never mind a promotion to the premier league.

Alex Neil would do for me.

No but he took St Mirren from the brink of relegation to the Premiership in one season. Just lost out on promotion with a car crash Sunderland despite having his best players sold from under him. Neil would be a sideways move at best.

[Heisenberg]

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Apart from gaining promotion to the biggest league in the world after leading part time hamilton to third in the Premiership from the league below?

Ross failed to get the biggest club by miles in L1 up. And I like Jack.

I would also ask Paul Lambert if he would like a fresh start up here.

Paul Lambert is a dreadful manager imo. Wouldn’t have him anywhere near it.

[NC1875]

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No but he took St Mirren from the brink of relegation to the Premiership in one season. Just lost out on promotion with a car crash Sunderland despite having his best players sold from under him. Neil would be a sideways move at best.

Like he just lost out in they semi finals and finals last year. He’s got no luck our Jack has he!

[Rob]

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TV screens killed the atmosphere?

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No TV screens at Livi, unless I'm mistaken.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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i'm actually feeling sorry for the group of posters on here that have been putting their head above the parapet and showing dissent for quite a few months and getting it tight from the REAL experts on here that have the green-tinted specs on and don't like others having a different opinion, personally i was told by one of those experts that i was making things up when i said several weeks ago that we were in for very tough games against sides scrapping for points and i couldn't see where the next win was coming from....St Johnstone aside i've not been all that far away, but it IS funny watching said poster now agreeing with others, funny old game



anyway, jack ross sounds like he was shouldering the blame tonight, he shouldn't imo...those players were an utter disgrace to the jersey, a disgrace

well, a few months ago we were near the top of the league. Quite a few months ago we finished third, although we did lose a cup final very disappointingly.

anyone calling for JR’s head back then frankly would have deserved to ‘get it tight’.

football is a funny game though, things can change very quickly, and things have turned inexorably against Ross in the last two months.

[Crab apple]

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The whole playing side should be embarrassed by that performance. A complete lack of effort and application after Livi scored. I'm a bit meh about Ross and I think he does have a difficult job to do. The squad was far too small particularly up front. He has ended up not having a 9 and not having a replacement and then forcing a 10 to play 9 who simply can't do it. Our game changers barring Boyle only have one side to their game and we have our only two dimensional midfielder injured for the poor run of form. I had no thoughts about him leaving or being sacked until he bowed to the crowd and brought Allan and Doidge on at halftime. As soon as he did I felt the game was lost and I certainly lost some respect for Ross as I thought those subs were for the crowd rather than the club.

Doidge is so far off being ready it is hard to watch and when Campbell went off the little urgency we had completely disappeared. Allan actually did his best work in defence tonight but we gave up the fight with the subs and it was all very predictable that Livi took control of the game and we stood like statues when in possession with players passing the buck rather than the ball.

So many players have deserved to be dropped but the squad is so poor the replacements wouldn't be much better. I'd stick Campbell in for JDH or Newell just to give us a bit of urgency in the middle and play Gullan with Nisbet. The first thing I would do though is get Stevenson back in the team and give Doig a rest.

Ross will do well to survive this horrific run but I think I would persevere for a little longer particularly as we have a couple of attackers already coming in during the winter break and possibly a few more changes to give the squad more options.

That's pretty much how I saw it tonight although I thought Doig was a threat first half. Our heads went right down after we missed the penalty. The second half was as poor as I've seen us for some time. The summer transfer window fiasco continues to hit us hard but I think JR also has many questions to answer. This looks like a team on a downward spiral to me.

[Hiber-nation]

Best part of the night was Alex Neil and John Rankin's excellent analysis on Sportsound.

[Silky]

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I never argued that top six and a decent cup run is all we want. I was arguing for why a manager would happily come to Hibs - decent salary and the absolute minimum to stay in the job should be relatively easy to achieve based on spending power (4-5 teams with much lower spending power).

Style can ultimately lead to success though. Maybe style is the wrong word. Philosophy is possibly better.

At a total different level but Klopp, Pep, Ranieri, Tuchel, Rodgers, Potter...their teams play in a certain way and they recruit players to suit that way (or players they can train to play that way). Closer to home - Ange at Celtic has a style he wants to play. They do not recruit players based on having a decent squad on paper. Most of the teams have a recognisable way of playing, some have a high press and aggressive nature (normally due to their clout within the league) and some have a lower block and counter attack with pace in their team. The fact we are currently a counter-attack team that relies on a game opening up so we can get Boyle running with yards of space is absolutely ludicrous in our league. We should be able to form something better than that. I complained about the style last season as I had concerns over when other teams improved, there were clear signs - the losses in the cups and the ridiculous thrashings we got from Livi and Ross County if memory serves me. This team has not been built to attack and nothing about JR's transfer windows has suggested we will recruit flair players to open up teams and create space.

If you cannot see a point in changing manager based on the run we are currently on and the football on display recently then I don't think there is much debate to be had. It goes beyond manager in fairness to JR, Hibs are in a bad place but are trying to convince us that things will turn some time in the future, power of positive vibes stuff rather than substance.

I understand the whole philosophy argument, I don't think that the counter attacking style is particularly beneficial to us (although, having said that I remember the whole "Gegenpressing" style Stendel adopted at Hearts-much lauded but clearly didn't work either) where teams sit in with packed midfields we can't break them down.

What I am, genuinely, not so sure about is that a manager would happily come to Hibs. A job with an 18 month-2 year shelf life-going by the longevity of previous incumbents. If it was me, I'd want time to re-build, implement my ideas and a decent run at it. Hecky and Lennon were sacked, Stubbs left (although cup win aside there was an unhappiness with his performance in some quarters), Butcher sacked, Fenlon sacked, the list goes on. I'd be looking at that list and thinking twice!

[cabbageandribs1875]

just read an e-mail from the club sent earlier this evening titled

The Season of Giving




Mmmm
this team is taking that literally i think

[The 90+2]

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Paul Lambert? Really??

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Paul Lambert is a dreadful manager imo. Wouldn’t have him anywhere near it.

I don't think he's dreadful.

It's a bit like people saying Moyes was finished and they wouldn't have taken at Scotland.

People forget the work Lambert actually done down South - took Wycombe to the League Cup Semis drawing with Chelsea when in League 2, done a fantastic job with Colchester and then built a team from a Norwich in freefall (that Colchester smashed 7-1 under PL) in L1 and built them up to eventually go up to the EPL. Went to Villa and was steady for a few seasons. Got sacked, replaced by Sherwood and next year they got relegated. Kept Blackburn up then walked as it's a basket case.

After that not so good. But he's anything but a dreadful manager.

[wookie70]

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That's pretty much how I saw it tonight although I thought Doig was a threat first half. Our heads went right down after we missed the penalty. The second half was as poor as I've seen us for some time. The summer transfer window fiasco continues to hit us hard but I think JR also has many questions to answer. This looks like a team on a downward spiral to me.

Doig got forward well but he and Murphy seem to want to occupy the same space and Murphy usually slows the speed of the attack Doig has built up. Ross is certainly on the ropes but while many fans thought he was coming out swinging by the double sub at half time I thought he had chucked the towel in. The transfer window is massive for him as are getting Doidge back and able to contribute something and having Magennis back in the team. At the moment the transfer window looks like the only thing that could make us turn the corner and to me Ross has earned one more window. A massive defeat in the final might be the final nail though. I'd stick with him until 4 or 5 games after the window though.

I agree with an earlier poster and think that I really want a manager who has a philosophy and one that fits what many fans want. An attacking style of play that entertains is what I want to see. I have no idea what style of play Ross likes to play and the team is so inconsistent in terms of performance and entertainment. We have had games( a wee while back) where we have blown teams away and scored some great goals but in other games it looks like we have no desire to attack at all.