Vaccine Passports for Easter Road

[the tornadoe]

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On what evidence can we suggests thy “the majority of players” or any players, for that matter, refuse to be vaccinated?
Whether they are or not is a matter for themselves and for that very reason it is impossible to suggest players, per se, are against vaccination.

The rules will decided whether or not they have to prove it in the future but not to you and me. The information will, correctly, stay confidential

It won't be confidential for all those people in the stans .... if you are there then by default you have Had the vaccine. I have no problem with the rules in anyway BUT it should be applied to EVERYONE not just spectators.

[Casey1875]

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It seems many are quite content to have the accident and hope the seatbelt saves them but seem unwilling to allow others who don't wear a seatbelt, can't wear a seatbelt or refuse to prove they have wore one to also take part for fear of making the accident more dangerous. They will all then presumably stop entering into contact with any other drivers for 10 days after the organised accident for fear of a mass pile up as they are not selfish of course and are all thinking about the wider societal implications. Meanwhile those under the age of being allowed to drive can walk out in front of all the cars as that is apparently not a problem as can those who can't wear a seatbelt for medical reasons.

The big question of course is, are the new rules about making people get vaccines or stopping the spread. I suspect a bit of both but the former is the driving force as you would simply stop attendance at the events if you were than bothered about the virus spreading.

I think personally that they are more about coercing people into having the vaccine. If it was purely about stopping the spread then we would not be allowing big crowds and the use of masks would still be a priority for everyone. Although they obviously are not mutually exclusive things if the vaccine reduces transmission rates.

[CentreLine]

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We had been hoping that this would have changed under the new restrictions but unfortunately not. With many players in Scotland still awaiting vaccination, or their second dose, the JRG have advised that Red Zones need to continue to exist until the football department are double dosed and a Test to Release programme is made live by Government.

That was posted by the fans rep about 10 days a go, what’s holding players back from getting vaccinated, they have had plenty time to get it, if they haven’t had by now then they have obviously decided not to get it, the best time would have been over the summer break to get it, a number of managers have also spoken out about in England that players are refusing to get vaccinated, can’t be one rule for us and another with players, we should all be in this together, I have said this before, Government’s have bent over backwards to let football go ahead during this pandemic, they should be leaning on Football Association’s to do more to help people to get vaccinated, good on Hibs showing us McGregor Murphy Gray getting it, may encourage more people to get it, but “Role Model” players could be doing more.

Sorry, I realise you probably didn’t intend to exaggerate but it’s all a bit anecdotal and not one word of it justifies suggesting “the majority” of players are not vaccinated. In fact it even says “awaiting vaccination or their second dose” implying that players have had a first dose. Not really suggestive of some kind of player revolt over vaccines.
As for what’s happening in England? Who cares what the over rated players elsewhere are doing?

[CentreLine]

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It won't be confidential for all those people in the stans .... if you are there then by default you have Had the vaccine. I have no problem with the rules in anyway BUT it should be applied to EVERYONE not just spectators.

Except for those who are exempt. People may judge but not with certainty.

[the tornadoe]

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Except for those who are exempt. People may judge but not with certainty.

True... but I doubt that there are many players with an valid reason for exemption. There will be some but not many..

[wookie70]

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So you are okay with crowds over 10k having to be double vaccinated but you just don't want us to have to carry the evidence of it.

No I think people should have choice. The passport is one element, the exclusion from society is another. I also don't like the vibe where those that have had a vaccination are seen as good citizens and those that haven't are seen as selfish. That is a government manipulating the population imo. We are back to having plague written on our doors or excluded from the city except in this case it isn't actually about having the virus it is about the vaccine. It also isn't about data for me although carrying evidence of your medical history to a football match seems ridiculous. Any restrictions on my free movement around the country I live in are to be opposed as far as I am concerned particularly when those are not applied equally to every citizen. My son had Covid a couple of weeks back and as I had been double vaxxed I was allowed back into society after a negative PCR. Did I need to show proof when I got the test, no. Did I need to show proof when I went to the game last week, no. It was done on trust that I had followed the guidelines which I had.

I also want a proper set of evidence and findings based on what if there were no fans, what if everyone was allowed and what if they restricted access to those who are double vaxxed. No need to ask for a set of figures to include those exempt on medical grounds or under 18 as they are clearly in the same field as those not double vaxxed. I want to know the differences in the three scenarios and if, as would seem obvious, having the 10k attend including the new rules would cause more cases than having no attendance why would that choice have been made but the line to be drawn exactly at 10K. It needs more explanation to me as I could head over to another event with 9999 attendees and not have to worry about a passport.

Like most of the rules around Covid it is knee jerk and not really well thought out and if citizens accept being governed with civil liberties being stripped after next to no consultation and seemingly without great thought then I suspect Governments will continue to do so long after Covid. The saddest thing is it looks like most would be quite content with that

[Tambo]

Just rebooked my second jab for the 11th of September which is a few weeks before my original appointment.

Will I have enough time for a passport? Not really clued up on all of this and can't wait any longer to get back to Easter Road.

[blackpoolhibs]

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We had been hoping that this would have changed under the new restrictions but unfortunately not. With many players in Scotland still awaiting vaccination, or their second dose, the JRG have advised that Red Zones need to continue to exist until the football department are double dosed and a Test to Release programme is made live by Government.

That was posted by the fans rep about 10 days a go, what’s holding players back from getting vaccinated, they have had plenty time to get it, if they haven’t had by now then they have obviously decided not to get it, the best time would have been over the summer break to get it, a number of managers have also spoken out about in England that players are refusing to get vaccinated, can’t be one rule for us and another with players, we should all be in this together, I have said this before, Government’s have bent over backwards to let football go ahead during this pandemic, they should be leaning on Football Association’s to do more to help people to get vaccinated, good on Hibs showing us McGregor Murphy Gray getting it, may encourage more people to get it, but “Role Model” players could be doing more.

How many is many?

[Hibee Mac]

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This is so misreprentitive of the data as to seem dishonest, and to end your post with glib bonhomie seems like deflection.

The data shown, particularly in Israel (since you've used that example) the vaccine is overwhelmingly effective in reducing hospitalisation and severe illness.

I've copied over a response to various anti vax talking points, particularly since you're so worried about the long term effects.

What does seem to reduce over time is immunity, particularly in the face of the delta variant. This suggests that a regime similar to the flu jag for the most at risk may be the way forward.


mRNA vaccines have been being studied for over a decade (including human trials).Current COVID vaccines have been extremely well studied, with sample sizes of hundreds of thousands of people, and studies have been compiled into large meta-analyses/systematic reviews. Thus, the short-term risks of the vaccines are extremely well-documented, and the benefits outweigh the risks.

The only “unknown” is about long-term effects; however no vaccine has ever caused the type of widespread, serious side effect years down the road that everyone is afraid of.Nearly all side effects occur shortly after vaccination .The only example of a sided effect that showed up months later appear within a year (whereas we’ve been using COVID vaccines for over a year) and was rare. The vaccine benefits still outweighed the risks.

Vaccines rarely cause long-term (future) side effects because they use low doses over a short time.Vaccines simply train your immune system.Vaccines are quickly removed from the body.Most vaccine components were well-studied, and their safety is known.

mRNA does not alter your DNA.

mRNA is very quickly broken down and removed.

mRNA in vaccines cannot make your body produce entire viruses.You are constantly exposed to mRNA from viruses (e.g., from colds)If you catch COVID, your cells will use viral mRNA to make proteins just like they do from the vaccine, but…Your cells will make entire viruses, not just a single protein.You will be exposed to far higher levels of mRNA.

Side effects from immune stimulation will usually happen right away and will usually be worse from actual infection with COVID.

A demand for long-term studies is meaningless unless you can justify why a particular length of time is needed.No matter how long something has been studied, it is always technically possible that an effect won’t show up until slightly after the length of that study.This is true for all medications, foods, minerals, vitamins, etc., yet we don’t fear most of them.Therefore, you must provide actual evidence or reasoning to think that a futre side-effect is actually likely.

Focusing on a highly-unlikely, unknown, hypothetical risk from the vaccine while downplaying the very real and serious risk from COVID is bad risk assessment.Fears over unknown long-term effects of the vaccines are baseless. The burden of proof is on anyone claiming that the vaccines are dangerous.

DING DING DING - We have a winner.

Fantastic post, this entire issue can ultimately be boiled down to misinterpretation of risk.

[SRHibs]

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Don't vaxxers and anti-vaxxers all get information from the internet?

Bit of a false equivalency, when "vaxxers" are getting their online information from 99% of global health officials, doctors, epidemiologists etc etc.

[wookie70]

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Except for those who are exempt. People may judge but not with certainty.

Why if you are just as likely to pass the virus on can you be exempt. There is not even a shielding category anymore just those at Higher risk. I have looked but I cannot see what are exemptions for being vaccinated.

Regardless of the moral and other arguments and discussions there is also a practical side to this. How are stewards going to manage this, do they need to be double vaxxed too. What about Police and St John's staff and and the boy celebrating his 18th working in the pie stall. What if someone has been vaxxed in both England and Scotland. Should they be stopped using their ticket until the NHS Scotland up catches up or do we have stewards looking at two pieces of medical info on two apps. If I am exempt (again no idea what makes people exempt) what happens if I haven't got the paperwork yet. What about if I proudly show my certificate but it has my mates name on the ticket as he bought my ticket. There are hundreds of scenarios that make this very difficult to administer and we struggle with simple ticketing as it is.

I get the feeling someone in Government has said, I know how we can get more citizens vaccinated and then they have worked the numbers from there.

[CentreLine]

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Why if you are just as likely to pass the virus on can you be exempt. There is not even a shielding category anymore just those at Higher risk. I have looked but I cannot see what are exemptions for being vaccinated.

Regardless of the moral and other arguments and discussions there is also a practical side to this. How are stewards going to manage this, do they need to be double vaxxed too. What about Police and St John's staff and and the boy celebrating his 18th working in the pie stall. What if someone has been vaxxed in both England and Scotland. Should they be stopped using their ticket until the NHS Scotland up catches up or do we have stewards looking at two pieces of medical info on two apps. If I am exempt (again no idea what makes people exempt) what happens if I haven't got the paperwork yet. What about if I proudly show my certificate but it has my mates name on the ticket as he bought my ticket. There are hundreds of scenarios that make this very difficult to administer and we struggle with simple ticketing as it is.

I get the feeling someone in Government has said, I know how we can get more citizens vaccinated and then they have worked the numbers from there.

Above my pay grade to answer that but it was clearly reported yesterday that some people with particular conditions would have to be exempt. We all await the definition of who those people might be.
Over 10,000 people died again yesterday through coronavirus. Maybe its time to ditch the spurious objections, get on board with the evidence and accept steps need to be taken to offset the devastation this virus is causing.

[superfurryhibby]

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/victoriaforster/2021/01/11/covid-19-vaccines-cant-alter-your-dna-heres-why/amp/

This is a great article on the misconceptions around mrna dna started by actual antivax loons

You had better send your link to the anti vax loons , a.k.a the World Health Organisation, because that’s where my quote comes from.

[Peevemor]

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Why if you are just as likely to pass the virus on can you be exempt. There is not even a shielding category anymore just those at Higher risk. I have looked but I cannot see what are exemptions for being vaccinated.

Regardless of the moral and other arguments and discussions there is also a practical side to this. How are stewards going to manage this, do they need to be double vaxxed too. What about Police and St John's staff and and the boy celebrating his 18th working in the pie stall. What if someone has been vaxxed in both England and Scotland. Should they be stopped using their ticket until the NHS Scotland up catches up or do we have stewards looking at two pieces of medical info on two apps. If I am exempt (again no idea what makes people exempt) what happens if I haven't got the paperwork yet. What about if I proudly show my certificate but it has my mates name on the ticket as he bought my ticket. There are hundreds of scenarios that make this very difficult to administer and we struggle with simple ticketing as it is.

I get the feeling someone in Government has said, I know how we can get more citizens vaccinated and then they have worked the numbers from there.

For info, in France anyone who comes into contact with the public in places that require a Covid passport (eg. bars, restaurants, stadiums, etc.) must themselves have a Covid passport.

People currently employed who don't have one must be removed from public contact where possible, if not they are to be suspended without pay. They can't however be sacked.

[Bristolhibby]

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despite my having having had two jabs i believe i can still catch covid and pass it on to those without jabs and those with jabs. I think what the jabs do is put 'yourself' in the 'best position' of not falling severely ill or being hospitalised if catching it.

I've had the jabs but find it a bit nonsensical that i have to show a 'passport' to demonstrate to strangers that i have if i want to attend events despite my being able to pass it on similarly to folk who decided for their own personal reason that they don't want to be jabbed.

All imo of course.

you wont catch it as easily, and if you do you will statistically not get it as bad!

J

[Bristolhibby]

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Just rebooked my second jab for the 11th of September which is a few weeks before my original appointment.

Will I have enough time for a passport? Not really clued up on all of this and can't wait any longer to get back to Easter Road.

Two weeks later you’ll be clear to attend ER.

First game “back” Hibs v St Johnstone. (After all that, I have no idea when this law will come in.

J

[hibbyfraelibby]

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It won't be confidential for all those people in the stans .... if you are there then by default you have Had the vaccine. I have no problem with the rules in anyway BUT it should be applied to EVERYONE not just spectators.

Using your logic then football will be brought to a stanstill again. Certainly ends the devate on whetger you are going to need a vaccine passport since there wont be any games to watch.

[Peevemor]

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Despite my having having had two jabs I believe I can still catch covid and pass it on to those without jabs and those with jabs. I think what the jabs do is put 'yourself' in the 'best position' of not falling severely ill or being hospitalised if catching it.

I've had the jabs but find it a bit nonsensical that I have to show a 'passport' to demonstrate to strangers that I have if I want to attend events despite my being able to pass it on similarly to folk who decided for their own personal reason that they don't want to be jabbed.

All imo of course.

In the event that the person sitting next to you has Covid, there's less chance that they'll transmit it to you. If everyone is vaccinated the risk is drastically reduced.

Also, if the authorities want to avoid having a large group of non vaccinated (or non negative tested) people in the same place, then the only way to check is for everyone to show their pass.

[Spike Mandela]

I’m double jabbed, I have the evidence. Getting the jab was no inconvenience, neither was getting the digital evidence and the paper copy.

[CentreLine]

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I’m double jabbed, I have the evidence. Getting the jab was no inconvenience, neither was getting the digital evidence and the paper copy.

Will need to get the paperwork. Any idea how we go about that without having either of the vaccination invite letters? I believe there was some sort of identification number on there that we need. Any assistance from yourself or any other poster would be helpful

[jgl07]

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The one thing that confuses me is the group of people who, on medical grounds, are unable to get vaccinated. Are they not also likely to be the ones that are most at risk of catching covid? In which case are they also not be the same group of people least likely to want to be in a large crowd, like at a football match?

Same with the people who are claiming they can't wear masks, should they be going into crowded supermarkets? Surely they should get someone else to help them by doing the shopping.

I suppose what I'm saying is that people who genuinely can't get vaccinated are unlikely to be going to the football.

So that's all the Under-18s ruled out?

[cabbageandribs1875]

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How bizarre that fans will be asked to provide a passport to get in to a stadium to watch the majority of players who will be anti vaxxers, I just hope the folk who are saying people are being selfish for not getting vaccinated will be refusing to go to games to watch players who are refusing to get the jabs.

the fans won't be sitting next to the players on the pitch

[wookie70]

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Also, if the authorities want to avoid having a large group of non vaccinated (or non negative tested) people in the same place, then the only way to check is for everyone to show their pass.

The only way - they could of course not allow the events as they have in the very recent past. That would be a far more effective way of reducing cases. Do they even know what are the main types of events and the numbers/proximity/venues etc that are causing this spike in cases. Is it events, general relaxion of the rules, hospitality or schools. Have they studied this to find out and fine tune what levers work best. I suspect there is evidence but have ministers even looked at it or have they went with the fitba fans and those that go to gigs are often young so we will coerce them into vaccination. Lets make up some numbers and stick it into statute.

Talk me through the practicalities of 18-20 thousand having their passports checked at ER or 40-50K in the Uglies grounds. Now have a wee think about how many scenarios there are going to be for stewards to deal with. If I was a steward I'd be looking for another gig somewhere if this goes through. It is a hard enough job with ridiculous rules on rucksacks and electronic tickets that seem to take the huff once or twice a season but at least you were dealing with the exceptions. Now every single person would need to show a vax passport, confirm that matches with ST or ticket details and then some form of photo ID. Otherwise it is so easy to circumvent it is hardly worth the bother.

As to the points made of players being double vaxxed that should extend to every person in connection with the game for it to make any sense - police, stewards, catering staff etc etc.

[Spike Mandela]

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Will need to get the paperwork. Any idea how we go about that without having either of the vaccination invite letters? I believe there was some sort of identification number on there that we need. Any assistance from yourself or any other poster would be helpful

Scroll down to section about lost paperwork.👍

https://www.nhsinform.scot/covid-19-...ination-status

[The dalmeny]

If anything is needed suspect it won’t be put in place until after the rugby matches in November

[the tornadoe]

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the fans won't be sitting next to the players on the pitch

No, but the subs will be sitting next to the fans in the stand !!

[The dalmeny]

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6680937[/URL]]It won't be confidential for all those people in the stans .... if you are there then by default you have Had the vaccine. I have no problem with the rules in anyway BUT it should be applied to EVERYONE not just spectators.

the players are working, spectators are not. Players don’t have a choice to do their work, spectators don’t need to attend.

[The dalmeny]

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6681128[/URL]]No, but the subs will be sitting next to the fans in the stand !!

Er, red zone? No

[Peevemor]

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The only way - they could of course not allow the events as they have in the very recent past. That would be a far more effective way of reducing cases. Do they even know what are the main types of events and the numbers/proximity/venues etc that are causing this spike in cases. Is it events, general relaxion of the rules, hospitality or schools. Have they studied this to find out and fine tune what levers work best. I suspect there is evidence but have ministers even looked at it or have they went with the fitba fans and those that go to gigs are often young so we will coerce them into vaccination. Lets make up some numbers and stick it into statute.

Talk me through the practicalities of 18-20 thousand having their passports checked at ER or 40-50K in the Uglies grounds. Now have a wee think about how many scenarios there are going to be for stewards to deal with. If I was a steward I'd be looking for another gig somewhere if this goes through. It is a hard enough job with ridiculous rules on rucksacks and electronic tickets that seem to take the huff once or twice a season but at least you were dealing with the exceptions. Now every single person would need to show a vax passport, confirm that matches with ST or ticket details and then some form of photo ID. Otherwise it is so easy to circumvent it is hardly worth the bother.

As to the points made of players being double vaxxed that should extend to every person in connection with the game for it to make any sense - police, stewards, catering staff etc etc.

Of course, having no public events is safer, but I'm pretty certain football fans (for example) would vote overwhelmingly for attending matches with the obligation to have a pass than going back to closed doors.

From what I've experienced here, the QR codes only take a second to scan (on any android or apple device) and this could easily be done in the queues for the turnstiles.

As for players being obliged to be vaccinated, for me that makes perfect sense, but nothing to do with contact with the public - simply doing their job every day while avoiding any risk to & from their colleagues should be reason enough.

As an aside, at the Lorient Festival a few weeks ago, Covid passports were required for the public but not the performers. However, once outside the venue, the performers had to stick to the same rules as everyone else.

[CentreLine]

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Scroll down to section about lost paperwork.👍

https://www.nhsinform.scot/covid-19-...ination-status

Top man. Thank you for tolerating my laziness ☺️