Hibs Kits 2019/20

[One Day Soon]

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Hibs are much more than an ordinary business. It is an important social and cultural institution that plays a big role in the community, and in fact is a community in itself. Dempster has made it clear from the outset about her belief in that, too. Putting a charitable organisation on the strips is in line with the ethos of the club - both in terms of current vision, and historically. It's something that those present at that very first meeting in St Mary's Street Halls in 1875 would be proud of.

The strips are fine, the sponsorship is, in the very least, good PR, and at its best, will benefit those less well off (even in a small way). These are good things.

Why am I putting my monthly sub into HSL if the club is giving it away by not having a sponsor?

[tamig]

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Exactly. If Hibs aren't interested in bringing in even 100k through sponsorship it's a bit of a kick in the teeth to the average working supporter paying into HSL every month. I know Leeann has said it's not impacting the player budget but that makes me think it's impacting something else. I think we need proper clarification on it.

Why? Do you not trust the board to do the job they’re meant to do? And why’s it a kick in the teeth to HSL donators? I know where my HSL money goes and am more than happy with that. The griping on here about the sponsorship position is unreal.

[tamig]

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Why am I putting my monthly sub into HSL if the club is giving it away by not having a sponsor?

What are you talking about? Your HSL money goes to the product on the pitch.

[One Day Soon]

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What are you talking about? Your HSL money goes to the product on the pitch.

And so could have any sponsorship revenue. Since we have decided to forgo that revenue all that my money is now doing is replacing the sponsorship revenue that could have increased the squad spend.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Hibs are much more than an ordinary business. It is an important social and cultural institution that plays a big role in the community, and in fact is a community in itself. Dempster has made it clear from the outset about her belief in that, too. Putting a charitable organisation on the strips is in line with the ethos of the club - both in terms of current vision, and historically. It's something that those present at that very first meeting in St Mary's Street Halls in 1875 would be proud of.

The strips are fine, the sponsorship is, in the very least, good PR, and at its best, will benefit those less well off (even in a small way). These are good things.

I'm aware of that mate and yes no doubt having the community foundation on the strip will be good PR. But lets not pretend this has been a conscious decision by the club to turn our backs on distasteful commercialism in order to promote good works.

At the end of the day if somebody shakes a bucket under my nose for Hibs ladies, food banks, or especially Dnipro kids as I head to the turnstiles I never fail to put my hand in my pocket and I'm glad to do it. But this is no longer folk in pantaloons and big moustaches giving up their Saturday afternoons to enrich their communities … Hibs are now in the cut throat business of professional football and no amount of good PR is going to get you to a cup final or a European qualification place in the league.

If we are in a position to help the community for sure we should do so and be proactive in that aim, as we have been for a good few years now. But not at the expense of the good financial health of the club and for that reason HSL is what should be on the strip and not the community foundation.

[Since452]

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Indeed mate. I would like to know if HSL was an option or was there some legal barrier to having them on the strip. I'm not against stuff like the community foundation in the slightest, as I understand it amongst other worthy initiatives they support the Hibs ladies team who have been an utter credit to the Hibernian name.

But the uppermost thought in the minds of our directors before anything else should be funding the club. They surely cannot be unaware that Hearts and Aberdeen currently run supporters initiatives which massively out strip HSL in funding their clubs and that like it or not in the fullness of time that disparity will begin to tell. If you ask me ignoring the opportunity to get HSL onto the strip for a season compounds the felony of failing to secure a proper shirt sponsorship deal.

Completely agree. Hibs community trust is fantastic it really is but imagine it was HSL on the front of the strip with every 5 quid the fans paid to get it on the replica strip going directly to the player budget not to mention the advertising it would get . Can't help but think that we've missed a trick and as you say compounds not having a sponsor

[madhatter]

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And so could have any sponsorship revenue. Since we have decided to forgo that revenue all that my money is now doing is replacing the sponsorship revenue that could have increased the squad spend.

That's a big leap...

Do you honestly think MarathonBet threw money at Hibs? I'd argue that Hibs were more beneficial to MarathonBet than they were to us. Scottish clubs outside the Old Firm get very little from sponsors and TV. Vast proportion of the cash comes from the fans.

You, like I, have no idea what the impact on the budget will be. I prefer to trust the club a little bit rather than resort to statements like "all that my money is now doing is replacing the sponsorship revenue" when you do not have that information. Statements like that are either trying to sabotage HSL backing (and other cash revenues the club have) or just a knickers in a twist moment.

[BoomtownHibees]

The thing is, maybe the sponsorship money was never used directly for the playing budget, hence why they can say it won’t be affected. But it still leaves us with a shortfall somewhere in the club, regardless of how it is spun

[weecounty hibby]

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Exactly. If Hibs aren't interested in bringing in even 100k through sponsorship it's a bit of a kick in the teeth to the average working supporter paying into HSL every month. I know Leeann has said it's not impacting the player budget but that makes me think it's impacting something else. I think we need proper clarification on it.

I pay into HSL and I don't feel like I've been kicked in the teeth at all. If we were going to get a poor deal from a sponsor then why not put the community charity on the front. Would rather that than selling the jerseys cheaply.

[tamig]

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And so could have any sponsorship revenue. Since we have decided to forgo that revenue all that my money is now doing is replacing the sponsorship revenue that could have increased the squad spend.

You’re making stuff up now. How do you know what any sponsorship revenue is earmarked for?

[One Day Soon]

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That's a big leap...

Do you honestly think MarathonBet threw money at Hibs? I'd argue that Hibs were more beneficial to MarathonBet than they were to us. Scottish clubs outside the Old Firm get very little from sponsors and TV. Vast proportion of the cash comes from the fans.

You, like I, have no idea what the impact on the budget will be. I prefer to trust the club a little bit rather than resort to statements like "all that my money is now doing is replacing the sponsorship revenue" when you do not have that information. Statements like that are either trying to sabotage HSL backing (and other cash revenues the club have) or just a knickers in a twist moment.

What a ridiculous statement.

If the suggested figures of £100,000 to £200,00 sponsorship per year are remotely accurate then the loss is equal to 277 of us donating £30 a month (the highest HSL donation option), every month, for a year, just to equal the lower figure of £100,000.

Maybe statements like mine aren't anything to do with "trying to sabotage HSL backing (and other cash revenues the club have) or just a knickers in a twist moment". Perhaps instead I'm asking perfectly legitimate questions about an announcement that doesn't appear to stack up.

[madhatter]

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The thing is, maybe the sponsorship money was never used directly for the playing budget, hence why they can say it won’t be affected. But it still leaves us with a shortfall somewhere in the club, regardless of how it is spun

What is the shortfall though? Millions? I honestly doubt a 4 year deal with MarathonBet would cover Scott Allan's salary. Sponsorships for Scottish clubs are rotten. I also don't agree with betting and alcohol seemingly being the only two options for football sponsorships (especially in Scotland). Hope this is the first step in us getting away from this.

[madhatter]

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What a ridiculous statement.

If the suggested figures of £100,000 to £200,00 sponsorship per year are remotely accurate then the loss is equal to 277 of us donating £30 a month (the highest HSL donation option), every month, for a year, just to equal the lower figure of £100,000.

Maybe statements like mine aren't anything to do with "trying to sabotage HSL backing (and other cash revenues the club have) or just a knickers in a twist moment". Perhaps instead I'm asking perfectly legitimate questions about an announcement that doesn't appear to stack up.

You didn't ask a question. You made a statement - "all that my money is now doing is replacing the sponsorship revenue". You are going by suggested figures and throwing about statements, ask questions by all means but you aren't doing that. Get in touch with fans rep, contact HSL for reassurances.

[BoomtownHibees]

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What is the shortfall though? Millions? I honestly doubt a 4 year deal with MarathonBet would cover Scott Allan's salary. Sponsorships for Scottish clubs are rotten. I also don't agree with betting and alcohol seemingly being the only two options for football sponsorships (especially in Scotland). Hope this is the first step in us getting away from this.

I don’t know however even if it’s at the lower end of the numbers quoted, say £100k a year, that’s a lot of cash for a club our size to lose out on

[Centre Hawf]

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What is the shortfall though? Millions? I honestly doubt a 4 year deal with MarathonBet would cover Scott Allan's salary. Sponsorships for Scottish clubs are rotten. I also don't agree with betting and alcohol seemingly being the only two options for football sponsorships (especially in Scotland). Hope this is the first step in us getting away from this.

If Scott Allans on 4k a week say for arguments sake then that works out to just over 200k over a year. I don't think its outwith the realms of possibility to suggest a shirt sponsorship could almost quite literally pay for his wage.

[percy veer]

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Remember and donate the fiver to the foundation anyway

people don't need it rammed down their throat, if the want to donate they can if not fine by me. Who are you to tell people what to do anyway.

[MyJo]

The marathon bet sponsorship was probably worth £250k to £300k a season to the club but their package wasn’t just for the shirts, it included a stack of advertising space in the stadium and on the website etc plus control of all in stadium betting.

While we aren’t receiving money for putting someone’s brand on the kits all that other stuff can still be sold, offsetting the actual loss to the club in comparison to what we got from marathonbet.

My guess is that the offers we did get were more gambling companies wanting a similar package to what marathonbet had and the club have listened to the feedback and didn’t want to continue promoting a company of that nature.

Alternatives weren’t as attractive or lucrative and I don’t imagine that any other drinks brands would be willing to get involved while Eden mill are also our partners.

Club have a looked at the figures, felt the money they could get from selling the other parts of the sponsorship package separately and the bonus McGinn money we will get from Villa’s promotion would be enough to support the squad budget while not having a main shirt sponsor for the season rather than taking a deal that wasn’t decent value for the club or another gambling company.

[madhatter]

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If Scott Allans on 4k a week say for arguments sake then that works out to just over 200k over a year. I don't think its outwith the realms of possibility to suggest a shirt sponsorship could almost quite literally pay for his wage.

Does that justify the means though? We are promoting a business that will have taken money out of fans pocket for their own profit. If people hadn't put bets on, they could have put money into HSL. Denise Coates should put anyone off being sponsored by a gambling company. I'm not willing to see our club profit from the potential downturn of a fellow fans life. I know I'm making this about morals but I would like to tie this back to we are only getting 100-200k a year (by guessed figures), enough to just about afford Scott Allan's salary. Is that really worth it? Are the risk of gambling addictions worth that?

Gambling and Alcohol companies are like vultures around football fans, it has to stop.

[Dunc89]

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Why am I putting my monthly sub into HSL if the club is giving it away by not having a sponsor?

That's really a question for the board, not for me.

As a season ticket holder who views the club as a social entity with a responsibility to the community, I'm happy for the club to take a manageable financial hit in order for a charity to benefit (even if it has happened by accident more than design here). I also think - and am not alone in this - that it's important that we divested ourselves from gambling companies.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Just purchased

Loving the new top now I've seen it in person

The staff at the club shop were friendly and helpful as always

GGTTH

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Why? Do you not trust the board to do the job they’re meant to do? And why’s it a kick in the teeth to HSL donators? I know where my HSL money goes and am more than happy with that. The griping on here about the sponsorship position is unreal.

As an HSL donator I wouldn't go so far as to call this a kick in the teeth … that suggests it was Hibs intention to forgo a commercial sponsor on the shirt in favour of the community foundation from the get go, which it obviously wasn't.

But its clear that Hibs turned down at least two offers of paid sponsorship in favour of the community foundation and in view of that it is in no way unreasonable for fans who put money into the club to question such a move. Why are we putting what is in effect free money into the club only for the club to turn down income from other sources.

If you are struggling to see why folk are griping sort this paradox for me:

A good few Hibs fans who have sat in the 'executive' section in the FF upper for a number of years are now being forced to move because Hibs have to all intents and purposes priced them out … Hibs have seen fit to do this even though the extra income increasing the price of these seats is likely to generate over a season is absolutely miniscule in the general scheme of things.

That talks to me of a club where every extra penny they are able to generate counts, so much so that they are willing to inconvenience loyal supporters.

Now this same club is turning down sponsorship money which simply has to dwarf any extra income the FF upper section 50 price increase would generate.

That talks to me of a club who think they are in such a sound financial position that they can choose to turn down money in the tens of thousands because they think it under values the clubs brand …. in financial terms nothing less than cutting off its nose to spite its face. If we can afford to do that, how does it square with what we have done in the FF upper?

[One Day Soon]

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You didn't ask a question. You made a statement - "all that my money is now doing is replacing the sponsorship revenue". You are going by suggested figures and throwing about statements, ask questions by all means but you aren't doing that. Get in touch with fans rep, contact HSL for reassurances.

I'll raise my concerns on .net if that's ok with you. Plenty of participation here from fan reps, HSL people, and everyone else generally who should be able to throw light on things.

It is unquestionably the case that no sponsorship money means less revenue for the club, unless a private donor is paying for the Foundation logo to be on the front of the strip. Since we haven't been told that is the case it seems highly unlikely this is what has happened.

If less money is coming in due to no sponsorship then the squad budget isn't being increased by whatever it could have been with that money. If sponsorship money was previously helping to fund the squad, but the squad budget is being protected, then something else is taking a hit to protect the squad. One way and another my HSL donation is effectively subsidising the lack of sponsorship - unless someone or something else is paying for the Foundation logo to be front of strip.

If we are going the moral path with the Foundation then why not state that from the outset rather than have a late kit release after failing to secure a sponsor, with the Foundation get-out added in at the end? And if we have no sponsor and are giving it away for free why not make HSL part or all of that campaign to raise visibility, increase fan ownership and strengthen the squad budget?

[NAE NOOKIE]

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I'll raise my concerns on .net if that's ok with you. Plenty of participation here from fan reps, HSL people, and everyone else generally who should be able to throw light on things.

It is unquestionably the case that no sponsorship money means less revenue for the club, unless a private donor is paying for the Foundation logo to be on the front of the strip. Since we haven't been told that is the case it seems highly unlikely this is what has happened.

If less money is coming in due to no sponsorship then the squad budget isn't being increased by whatever it could have been with that money. If sponsorship money was previously helping to fund the squad, but the squad budget is being protected, then something else is taking a hit to protect the squad. One way and another my HSL donation is effectively subsidising the lack of sponsorship - unless someone or something else is paying for the Foundation logo to be front of strip.

If we are going the moral path with the Foundation then why not state that from the outset rather than have a late kit release after failing to secure a sponsor, with the Foundation get-out added in at the end? And if we have no sponsor and are giving it away for free why not make HSL part or all of that campaign to raise visibility, increase fan ownership and strengthen the squad budget?

[Centre Hawf]

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Does that justify the means though? We are promoting a business that will have taken money out of fans pocket for their own profit. If people hadn't put bets on, they could have put money into HSL. Denise Coates should put anyone off being sponsored by a gambling company. I'm not willing to see our club profit from the potential downturn of a fellow fans life. I know I'm making this about morals but I would like to tie this back to we are only getting 100-200k a year (by guessed figures), enough to just about afford Scott Allan's salary. Is that really worth it? Are the risk of gambling addictions worth that?

Gambling and Alcohol companies are like vultures around football fans, it has to stop.

I think that's definitely a better point to be made to be honest. I do have my reservations on gambling sponsors but I would rather the club came out and said that, but I don't think this is the case at the moment. Drinks companies I'm okay with but then you can make the argument about alcoholism etc and I fully get that side of things.

If the club wanted to make a point of no longer associating itself with gambling companies then I will happily support them in that decision but they would need to communicate that to us, until they do I will assume the buggered up the sponsorship situation and went for a quick fix and in turn have cost the club money.

[One Day Soon]

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Does that justify the means though? We are promoting a business that will have taken money out of fans pocket for their own profit. If people hadn't put bets on, they could have put money into HSL. Denise Coates should put anyone off being sponsored by a gambling company. I'm not willing to see our club profit from the potential downturn of a fellow fans life. I know I'm making this about morals but I would like to tie this back to we are only getting 100-200k a year (by guessed figures), enough to just about afford Scott Allan's salary. Is that really worth it? Are the risk of gambling addictions worth that?

Gambling and Alcohol companies are like vultures around football fans, it has to stop.

This is a separate and legitimate issue, though almost any sponsor would have taken money out of fans pockets for profit - however directly or indirectly.

To quote back to you what you were saying to me earlier, you don't know who the potential sponsors may have been and you're just guessing that it would be a gambling or alcohol company. What about if it was a Bukta or MacBean protective clothing? It's a loss of revenue and given the fanfare about sponsor deals in the past it seems unlikely to be peanuts in the wider scheme of things.

[madhatter]

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I'll raise my concerns on .net if that's ok with you. Plenty of participation here from fan reps, HSL people, and everyone else generally who should be able to throw light on things.

It is unquestionably the case that no sponsorship money means less revenue for the club, unless a private donor is paying for the Foundation logo to be on the front of the strip. Since we haven't been told that is the case it seems highly unlikely this is what has happened.

If less money is coming in due to no sponsorship then the squad budget isn't being increased by whatever it could have been with that money. If sponsorship money was previously helping to fund the squad, but the squad budget is being protected, then something else is taking a hit to protect the squad. One way and another my HSL donation is effectively subsidising the lack of sponsorship - unless someone or something else is paying for the Foundation logo to be front of strip.

If we are going the moral path with the Foundation then why not state that from the outset rather than have a late kit release after failing to secure a sponsor, with the Foundation get-out added in at the end? And if we have no sponsor and are giving it away for free why not make HSL part or all of that campaign to raise visibility, increase fan ownership and strengthen the squad budget?

I see your points but ultimately due to Leeann's involvement in the Community Foundation, HSL and the club itself, it pulls her position into question. That's the bigger problem than having 200k less this year. The club's CEO is a director in each of these organisations and makes this all strange (which is something I will agree with you on). I can sort of understand why HSL wasn't the main focus on the strips because HSL have been having a branding issue themselves (people don't like HSL) and HSL isn't well backed by fans (we've got approximately 10% of our maximum home attendance donating, closer to 13% of our average attendance). Putting HSL on the strips would lead to "Ponzi scheme" and "so we have to buy the strips and pay for HSL" and "why couldn't they secure a commercial sponsor". It wouldn't have led to a huge influx of new donors.

I don't like the fact this has been spoken as if the club have "investigated the foundation" when Leeann is a director of the foundation. She does seem to have a drive to help the community but I think her involvement in everything is creating mistrust and suspicion. HSL being the example.

Not sure of the goings-on but suspect this is well-meant. I think the moral route is the one the club have taken. Having "The Changing Room" and the other mental health and wellbeing stuff alongside MarathonBet plastered around the place just never hit home with me personally.

[tamig]

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As an HSL donator I wouldn't go so far as to call this a kick in the teeth … that suggests it was Hibs intention to forgo a commercial sponsor on the shirt in favour of the community foundation from the get go, which it obviously wasn't.

But its clear that Hibs turned down at least two offers of paid sponsorship in favour of the community foundation and in view of that it is in no way unreasonable for fans who put money into the club to question such a move. Why are we putting what is in effect free money into the club only for the club to turn down income from other sources.

If you are struggling to see why folk are griping sort this paradox for me:

A good few Hibs fans who have sat in the 'executive' section in the FF upper for a number of years are now being forced to move because Hibs have to all intents and purposes priced them out … Hibs have seen fit to do this even though the extra income increasing the price of these seats is likely to generate over a season is absolutely miniscule in the general scheme of things.

That talks to me of a club where every extra penny they are able to generate counts, so much so that they are willing to inconvenience loyal supporters.

Now this same club is turning down sponsorship money which simply has to dwarf any extra income the FF upper section 50 price increase would generate.

That talks to me of a club who think they are in such a sound financial position that they can choose to turn down money in the tens of thousands because they think it under values the clubs brand …. in financial terms nothing less than cutting off its nose to spite its face. If we can afford to do that, how does it square with what we have done in the FF upper?

And how do you know that the cash available from a paid sponsorship deal isn’t being met from another source?

[NAE NOOKIE]

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That's really a question for the board, not for me.

As a season ticket holder who views the club as a social entity with a responsibility to the community, I'm happy for the club to take a manageable financial hit in order for a charity to benefit (even if it has happened by accident more than design here). I also think - and am not alone in this - that it's important that we divested ourselves from gambling companies.

Sorry but as a season ticket holder and HSL contributor who has come out of retirement and taken a part time job purely in order to fund my expensive Hibs habit I am far from happy to see the money I put into Hibs in order to see the club thrive and do well on and off the park effectively given away to charity.

Every Hibs fan wants to see the club connected to and helping the community which supports it and we do that in many ways, for example by opening up the club's facilities to disability groups and providing facilities for community education … not to mention involvement in a range of mental health initiatives. The club's directors and playing staff also contribute by showing support for many local social initiatives and the like.

That is what using the club to help and support the community means to me …. it does not mean diverting money the fans put into the club in order to see it operate successfully in its core business of professional football into non football related activities, no matter how noble the cause and no matter how indirectly its done.

As for divesting ourselves from gambling companies ….. that's all very nice and ethical, but where do we stop? Name me a potential Hibs sponsor with an international profile and I bet a pound to a penny I could find an ethical reason for Hibs not to have them on the front of our shirt.

[Dalianwanda]

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And how do you know that the cash available from a paid sponsorship deal isn’t being met from another source?

We dont...Theres some legitimate questions being asked but these are all sandwiched into a bunch of guesswork disguised as statements around the money coming into the club.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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And how do you know that the cash available from a paid sponsorship deal isn’t being met from another source?

I don't. But if it was I don't believe for a second Hibs wouldn't have said so. Until that happens the only logical conclusion is that it isn't being covered from elsewhere and that will continue to be my position until someone proves me wrong.