HSL meeting tonight

[banchoryhibs]

The benefit of HSL holding 25.1% of the shareholding was discussed at some length. Whilst this will now be difficult to achieve it would provide a very high degree of protection should any majority shareholder wish to take some action that would ultimately damage our Club.

HSL's request that small shareholders donate the bulk of their holding to HSL has a great deal of merit!

One thing that I found out last night is that in the extremely unlikely event that HSL Members decide that its shareholding should be sold all of the proceeds would go to the Hibernian Community Foundation - nobody is out to make any money from their membership of HSL that's for sure!

[banchoryhibs]

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Well he cant have it both ways, says he wants us to "Pony up", well this would be a way to get his wishes.

Yes, it would.

Leeann and the other directors are convinced that Ron's intentions towards our Club are wholly honourable and I've no doubt that some detail of the new direction we're heading in will be made known soon. For example it was suggested that there may be an announcement about the improvements to HTC infrastructure shortly.

[crash]

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One thing that I found out last night is that in the extremely unlikely event that HSL Members decide that its shareholding should be sold all of the proceeds would go to the Hibernian Community Foundation - nobody is out to make any money from their membership of HSL that's for sure!

Was this in the constitution from the start, of not whose decision was that?

[Heisenberg]

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I was there last night. Very impressed with both Jim and LD. She mentioned that Aberdeen and our neighbours are having money shovelled into them by donors. Also that to sign McNulty and Omeonga would have cost the Club about £5m over a 3 year period and if we did have that money to spend on players, we wouldn’t be spending it on just those 2.

I left feeling positive about continuing my HSL donations, but I think there will be a tougher crowd at next weeks HSA meeting.

Definitely going to be a tougher crowd now after what Hecky has said about our transfer business.

[Lago]

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I was there last night. Very impressed with both Jim and LD. She mentioned that Aberdeen and our neighbours are having money shovelled into them by donors. Also that to sign McNulty and Omeonga would have cost the Club about £5m over a 3 year period and if we did have that money to spend on players, we wouldn’t be spending it on just those 2.

I left feeling positive about continuing my HSL donations, but I think there will be a tougher crowd at next weeks HSA meeting.

Of course they are having money shovelled into them, their contribution set up is much simpler & more appealing than HSL.

[CentreLine]

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The benefit of HSL holding 25.1% of the shareholding was discussed at some length. Whilst this will now be difficult to achieve it would provide a very high degree of protection should any majority shareholder wish to take some action that would ultimately damage our Club.

HSL's request that small shareholders donate the bulk of their holding to HSL has a great deal of merit!

One thing that I found out last night is that in the extremely unlikely event that HSL Members decide that its shareholding should be sold all of the proceeds would go to the Hibernian Community Foundation - nobody is out to make any money from their membership of HSL that's for sure!

Couldn't agree more. The 25.1% target was a critical part of what made HSL important. The failure of us, as supporters, to "pony up" enough to make that happen made things a lot more difficult for HSL to protect our back but not impossible. On that basis, I have just emailed HSL to offer them 4000 of my shares. I know I could give them almost all of my shares but I like the round number of 1000 to keep. I will be encouraging family members and friends to do something similar and then it will be up to them if they want to do that.

[malcolm]

I don’t see why as a small time investor I’d need sell or gift my shares to hsl. Surely I can authorise hsl to proxy vote my shares in whatever way they think fit until I revoke that authority?

It is not ownership but voting rights that matter.

[hibeg]

The problem with proxy is that the vast majority of small shareholders don’t use their vote or go to the AGM.
At the meeting last night it was stated that over a quarter of a million shares have been donated to HSL in the last few weeks. It later transpired that most of them came from one individual.
Approx 1 million shares equates to 1% of the share issue. It would take some time to get up to 25%
Also HSL do not know who holds the nominee shares ( approx 10%)

[DanishJohn]

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yes. It was always great that HSL was money in the club’s hands as well as buying shares. Now that things have changed my priority is protecting HFCs long term future rather than sticking a few quid in a transfer kitty or whatever. Best way of doing that is to get as many shares in the hands of a supporters voting block as possible, where it will be guaranteed the vote will be used in the event of any mischief from RG or others.

Yep this is how I see it. I very much want my money going to purchase further shares, when they come available.

It safeguards our club.

I thought last night went very well and very encouraging to learn that HSL has recruited new members during this period of change.

I think there is a lot for us to look forward to and there are shares out there to be had.

Perhaps showing my age here but if you lived through the period of the Mercer takeover bid you surely must recall saying when we were saved


Never Again !

[DanishJohn]

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The problem with proxy is that the vast majority of small shareholders don’t use their vote or go to the AGM.
At the meeting last night it was stated that over a quarter of a million shares have been donated to HSL in the last few weeks. It later transpired that most of them came from one individual.
Approx 1 million shares equates to 1% of the share issue. It would take some time to get up to 25%
Also HSL do not know who holds the nominee shares ( approx 10%)

Slightly have to disagree with you on this.

You are bang on regarding the small shareholders not voting etc

During the course of the evening I heard JA say HSL had already started receiving donations of shares from individuals. It was later during the meeting that an individual stated he had transferred over a quarter of a million shares.

Not trying to nitpick here but the shares are being transferred over from more than just one person.

I think I heard it right but no doubt someone may correct me if I'm wrong.

[Daniel 1875]

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Of course they are having money shovelled into them, their contribution set up is much simpler & more appealing than HSL.

The “money shovelled in” stuff was in relation to one or two individuals putting in huge sums of money at both clubs. It was more of a point to give fans the understanding that in addition to the fan initiatives at Hearts and Aberdeen, they are being heavily backed by individuals to the tune of millions.

[hibeg]

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Slightly have to disagree with you on this.

You are bang on regarding the small shareholders not voting etc

During the course of the evening I heard JA say HSL had already started receiving donations of shares from individuals. It was later during the meeting that an individual stated he had transferred over a quarter of a million shares.

Not trying to nitpick here but the shares are being transferred over from more than just one person.

I think I heard it right but no doubt someone may correct me if I'm wrong.

That’s why I said the majority came from a single shareholder. I think that’s pretty much correct.
My point really was that donations are not going to make much difference,for many years, unless HSL are donated shares from nominee holders, rather than hoovering up small shareholders shares.
Every share donation helps but in the real world the nominees hold the key, as they hold 10%

I know everything is up in the air at the moment but if the club gave HSL some publicity, then maybe others would consider contributing
20k a month contributions, with 40k in the bank, is great, but is dwarfed by Dons and Hearts.

[malcolm]

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The problem with proxy is that the vast majority of small shareholders don’t use their vote or go to the AGM.
At the meeting last night it was stated that over a quarter of a million shares have been donated to HSL in the last few weeks. It later transpired that most of them came from one individual.
Approx 1 million shares equates to 1% of the share issue. It would take some time to get up to 25%
Also HSL do not know who holds the nominee shares ( approx 10%)

If hsl could organise/publicise the opportunity for small shareholders to nominate hsl as their proxy then that they don’t attend is not relevant. It may perhaps be only of potential great value if there is something contentious to be voted on but publicising the possibility of such a mechanism in advance of its need is not a bad idea and might help to make the mobilising of support easier. Regardless of any immediate need, each proxy would I understand count as a vote for any vote decided by ordinary show of hands - so brings influence.

Ideally if small shareholders not currently using their vote could have a means to easily roll on their proxy authority to each successive meeting, without need for any specific direction of intent for each decision and meeting, this would add to hsl influence. I think fan ownership has a potential for chaos and indecision and believe fan influence through a mechanism like hsl can only be a success if there is general trust and belief that the mechanism (hsl in this case) would vote appropriately.

Sadly looking at the existing propensity to mistrust and to believe all the mis and disinformation around any ownership of Hibs it would be a hard slog.

Meanwhile I will trust in the good intentions of the new majority shareholder. I also don’t believe, unlike some, that he has any obligation to invest more money. Perhaps more relevant I hope he won’t lend in reckless fashion either.

[Billy Whizz]

Any legal reason why we can’t donate to HSL on the e-ticketing website, yet we can donate to Hibernian Community
Just asking

[Purple & Green]

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Approx £50k. They are currently bringing in £20k per month.

This could be interpreted as not in accordance with the articles of association.

I think the notion that hsl can continue to take money from members, impacting on the existing members without increasing its shareholding is just messy. I’m happy to put money hibs way through a vehicle like hsl but not sure that collecting money for donation to hibs is a way forward, especially while LD sits on the hibs board and hsl board - that’s two hats and a bit messy for me.

I’m not getting my head round how new members can control the shareholding in hibs without ever having contributed to the buying of shares.

I don’t understand why RG did this this way.

Thinking out loud, rather than donate the money to hibs hsl could look into giving the club interest free loans for a set period - that way if RG does turn out to be less than straight then there is recourse to funding or debt to equity etc. Thinking out loud I might be happy with that.

[Speedway]

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Approx £50k. They are currently bringing in £20k per month.

So we’re giving our club roughly 10% of what FoH are giving theirs?

[Lago]

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The “money shovelled in” stuff was in relation to one or two individuals putting in huge sums of money at both clubs. It was more of a point to give fans the understanding that in addition to the fan initiatives at Hearts and Aberdeen, they are being heavily backed by individuals to the tune of millions.

I was under the impression that was what Ron was doing at Hibs??

[Purple & Green]

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Yes, it would.

Leeann and the other directors are convinced that Ron's intentions towards our Club are wholly honourable and I've no doubt that some detail of the new direction we're heading in will be made known soon. For example it was suggested that there may be an announcement about the improvements to HTC infrastructure shortly.

I can’t think why any of the directors would say different?

It’s no secret there will be improvements to HTC infrastructure - we are committed to them by 2020 as part of project brave.

[Salisbury Hibby]

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Well he cant have it both ways, says he wants us to "Pony up", well this would be a way to get his wishes.

Absolutely - No donation without representation :)

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Hibbyradge]

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Oh I don't know. Chief Execs talk utter mince in my experience when it suits them. I'm filing this in the mince drawer.

It sounds like mince to me too.

Even if each player cost £1m to buy, it would leave £3m in wages or £1m per year, £0.5m each or £10k a week.

And I doubt both players were valued at £1m each.

[Lago]

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It sounds like mince to me too.

Even if each player cost £1m to buy, it would leave £3m in wages or £1m per year, £0.5m each or £10k a week.

And I doubt both players were valued at £1m each.

Smoke and mirrors

[tamig]

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I can’t think why any of the directors would say different?

It’s no secret there will be improvements to HTC infrastructure - we are committed to them by 2020 as part of project brave.

What are the 2020 Project Brave requirements? I’ve still to see anything stating a full sized indoor pitch is needed to retain elite status. Are you talking about other improvements? If so, what?

[Pagan Hibernia]

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So we’re giving our club roughly 10% of what FoH are giving theirs?

Yep. There’s all sorts of reasons why that’s the case but those are the naked facts.

[#2 Double Tap]

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Yep. There’s all sorts of reasons why that’s the case but those are the naked facts.

The reason that HSL failed to attract the numbers, and really the reason it has failed, is because it was the club who set the whole scheme up, if it had been an independent entity with people elected to run it, it would have been much more successful IMO.

People underestimate how much hatred their was for Rod Petrie, and more importantly how hardly anyone, except the happy clappers trusted him.........all the money hibs took in under his reign, people where suspicious of where it all went. Obviously they seen the stadium and east mains, but there was a feeling that the money was not all going on those things......after all he was an accountant and their job is to hide the money, that is why HSL only gives 10% of what FOH generates.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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I was there last night. Very impressed with both Jim and LD. She mentioned that Aberdeen and our neighbours are having money shovelled into them by donors. Also that to sign McNulty and Omeonga would have cost the Club about £5m over a 3 year period and if we did have that money to spend on players, we wouldn’t be spending it on just those 2.

I left feeling positive about continuing my HSL donations, but I think there will be a tougher crowd at next weeks HSA meeting.

If you’re a Hearts fan and organised to save the club but realised if you kept your powder dry until Roman-offskid the.ln could pump in money (presum these donations are not subject to tax? So more efficient way of putting money into the club? What’s better £380 for a season ticket of £380 for a donation out of interes (tax wise it costs/admin?)

[Geo_1875]

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The reason that HSL failed to attract the numbers, and really the reason it has failed, is because it was the club who set the whole scheme up, if it had been an independent entity with people elected to run it, it would have been much more successful IMO.

People underestimate how much hatred their was for Rod Petrie, and more importantly how hardly anyone, except the happy clappers trusted him.........all the money hibs took in under his reign, people where suspicious of where it all went. Obviously they seen the stadium and east mains, but there was a feeling that the money was not all going on those things......after all he was an accountant and their job is to hide the money, that is why HSL only gives 10% of what FOH generates.

FoH didn't have a group of Hearts supporters actively campaigning against them. That's one of the reasons FoH brings in 10X more than HSL

[tonyrougier123]

Why is what foh are doing always a measuring stick for hsl donations?

[DanishJohn]

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Why is what foh are doing always a measuring stick for hsl donations?

Well if you think about it, Hearts and Hibs are comparable in size of supports.
Both supports have desires and ambitions what they want from their club.

Hearts supporters donate a lot more money to their club than what Hibs supporters do.
(Forget the very wealthy ones and the quoted £4 Million figure.)
I am just talking about the 8000 contributing members, all ordinary guys who are putting in over a million a year.

Now because Hearts get a lot more money from their fans, they have more income than Hibs.
That in turns puts them in a better position than Hibs ie they can if they so wish operate a bigger player budget than Hibs.They might just be able to buy any player Hibs might be chasing. They can do this because they have more money than Hibs.

If they get really lucky and then get a good manager then it's take off for them.

We have to accept that they will probably start finishing above us.

I could of course be talking bollocks.

Think of this though. In the 1960s Everton and Liverpool shared a city and both had comparable supports
They were on a par for success.Both viewed as equals.

Fast forward to 2019.

[jacomo]

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I don’t see why as a small time investor I’d need sell or gift my shares to hsl. Surely I can authorise hsl to proxy vote my shares in whatever way they think fit until I revoke that authority?

It is not ownership but voting rights that matter.

Jim wants 25% so he can get a seat at the big table.

[jacomo]

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It sounds like mince to me too.

Even if each player cost £1m to buy, it would leave £3m in wages or £1m per year, £0.5m each or £10k a week.

And I doubt both players were valued at £1m each.

I can imagine McNulty wanting £10k a week (maybe basic wage would be lower but inc bonuses etc). He’s on loan at Sunderland so presumably no one met Reading’s valuation, but they would surely be looking to recoup close to £1m for him.

Omeonga listed on transfermarkt (I know) with a transfer value of £1.62m.

LD might have rounded up to £5m but it doesn’t seem implausible.

This is why we are in the loan market: the quality of player we want costs too much money.