TV ban for bar

[Pretty Boy]

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Can’t believe anyone would think chucking folk out early, slap bang in the middle of the game would have any other effect than to cause mass trouble. Imagine how bad the press would be if the manager tried to empty the pub and a large scale disorder kicked in, they’d be called irresponsible for that alone.

There is really 3 options.

1. We accept alcohol and good behaviour don't mix and close pubs entirely or ban them from showing any live sport.

2. Owners take some responsibility. The vast majority have and did so again on Thursday. This bar has repeatedly chosen not to do so.

3. Individuals take some responsibility and realise that, for the moment, jumping about on top of each other and getting absolutely leathered for the football or whatever is not on.

I'd rather not see option 1 because working in a job intrinsically linked to the hospitality industry I'd be out of a job. I've also worked in the trade for several years, including at management level, so I have some idea what I'm talking about. That leaves options 2 and 3 and sadly that seems beyond a minority. That gives us all a problem.

[Barney McGrew]

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How does a bar in that circumstance make sure punters follow the rules? Genuinely interested to know what you think they could have done.

They don’t allow themselves to be in that position in the first place. How many of those tables of young lads do you think share a household? That’s a mandatory requirement, yet pretty obviously they’ve turned a blind eye and now it’s come back and bit them big style.

I’m not a killjoy, I’ve worked in the licensed trade for many years so I’m in a pretty good position to be able to have a decent informed view. Believe me when I say things are tough enough just now without small numbers of idiot owners putting profit before safety in the middle of a pandemic, and the knock on is that it will have a much worse effect on the majority of sites that are doing everything they’ve been asked to (and often more). It’s selfish and utterly counterproductive.

[Since90+2]

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Extra time and pens were predictable eventualities which should have been planned for by the bar, with it being made clear to customers what would happen if it was level after 90 to ensure no breach, whether by the bar itself or the customers. Instead, the bar chose to ignore that possible outcome. In doing so they clearly bear a significant degree of fault in allowing what happened to happen.

The game could also have been won by a 92nd minute winner (don't we all know that) which would have resulted in the same reaction. Going by your logic people should have been asked to leave the bar at 70 minutes to avoid such a scenario?

[hibbysam]

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Extra time and pens were predictable eventualities which should have been planned for by the bar, with it being made clear to customers what would happen if it was level after 90 to ensure no breach, whether by the bar itself or the customers. Instead, the bar chose to ignore that possible outcome. In doing so they clearly bear a significant degree of fault in allowing what happened to happen.

The same outcome would have happened had there been a last minute winner, or Serbia hadn’t scored the equaliser. Chucking folk out would’ve made the situation worse, not better.

[hibbysam]

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There is really 3 options.

1. We accept alcohol and good behaviour don't mix and close pubs entirely or ban them from showing any live sport.

2. Owners take some responsibility. The vast majority have and did so again on Thursday. This bar has repeatedly chosen not to do so.

3. Individuals take some responsibility and realise that, for the moment, jumping about on top of each other and getting absolutely leathered for the football or whatever is not on.

I'd rather not see option 1 because working in a job intrinsically linked to the hospitality industry I'd be out of a job. I've also worked in the trade for several years, including at management level, so I have some idea what I'm talking about. That leaves options 2 and 3 and sadly that seems beyond a minority. That gives us all a problem.

What did the other bars do that this one never? I’d suggest absolutely nothing. What responsibility did they not take on Thursday? A lot of accusations with absolutely no substance behind it. Apart from banning under 30’s from the pub, I’m not sure what else could’ve been done.

[CockneyRebel]

[QUOTE=hibbysam;6355470]

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People should, absolutely, however this was a massive moment of jubilation. People lose their heads in moments like this and it’s hardly surprising. If you think everyone could and should have stayed calm, sat in their seats and not cheered when the penalty was saved then fair play. The reality to that is totally different.

That sentence actually says it all - it could and should have been anticipated and nipped in the bud. I feel massive sympathy for people in the pub/bar trade and what a lockdown means to them but it's either no football in the pubs or no pubs. I would much sooner watch a game in the pub than at home the same as most folk but I just can't see how.

[hibbysam]

[QUOTE=CockneyRebel;6355517]

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That sentence actually says it all - it could and should have been anticipated and nipped in the bud. I feel massive sympathy for people in the pub/bar trade and what a lockdown means to them but it's either no football in the pubs or no pubs. I would much sooner watch a game in the pub than at home the same as most folk but I just can't see how.

But while it is allowed, the pub is well within their rights to show it. Would probably just have pushed people into houses to watch it but again, that’s guesswork.

[CockneyRebel]

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They don’t allow themselves to be in that position in the first place. How many of those tables of young lads do you think share a household? That’s a mandatory requirement, yet pretty obviously they’ve turned a blind eye and now it’s come back and bit them big style.

I’m not a killjoy, I’ve worked in the licensed trade for many years so I’m in a pretty good position to be able to have a decent informed view. Believe me when I say things are tough enough just now without small numbers of idiot owners putting profit before safety in the middle of a pandemic, and the knock on is that it will have a much worse effect on the majority of sites that are doing everything they’ve been asked to (and often more). It’s selfish and utterly counterproductive.

[Pretty Boy]

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What did the other bars do that this one never? I’d suggest absolutely nothing. What responsibility did they not take on Thursday? A lot of accusations with absolutely no substance behind it. Apart from banning under 30’s from the pub, I’m not sure what else could’ve been done.

I think in part it comes down to the perception of a bar. 'Limbs' videos and videos of people going mental in bars go viral on social media all the time. The fact this is the only one doing the round on this occasion tells a story in itself.

I wouldn't behave like that in either of the bars I frequent regularly because I have a level of respect for the people who run them and know they don't take any nonsense. When you see the owner of this bar front and centre acting as cheerleader it tells another story.

This bar has pushed the rules to breaking point already this year, in fact they have just totally ignored them. It's the kind of place I would go if I wanted to disregard the restrictions and enter an anything goes environment. As said above their first mistake was a clear failure to enforce the 2 households rules for groups. That sowed the seeds of the problem.

[PatHead]

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Which would’ve caused an even bigger riot 😂 they also didn’t have to as per their regulations. So what, we shut pubs down for following regulations but not taking steps that would cause absolute uproar, just in case scotland happened to win on penalties?

You asked what could have been done. I answered. Don't see what your problem is.

If you are stupid enough to not see that what happened was wrong then you are part of the problem.

It doesn't matter whether we know if anyone there was positive or not. There is a chance that there was someone and that's too much risk. It simply is not fair on everyone who is following the rules or who would be affected.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

[QUOTE=CockneyRebel;6355517]

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That sentence actually says it all - it could and should have been anticipated and nipped in the bud. I feel massive sympathy for people in the pub/bar trade and what a lockdown means to them but it's either no football in the pubs or no pubs. I would much sooner watch a game in the pub than at home the same as most folk but I just can't see how.

i dunno what the answer is. if you remove the TV then would folks not just huddle round an iPad or more discreet phone?

I’ve stayed away from pubs - I went for an afternoon meal to meet a team I’d never seen but was not comfortable with that and the experience confirmed to me the challenges - there was no meaningful social distancing as we were all in a booth.

it seems obvious that of all the riskiest places to head it’s a bar at a time when people can have had a few and get lax.

I was reluctant to just head to the pub once restrictions had initially eased post lockdown to see how things panned out and sure enough spikes. I’m cool with not heading out as I have youngish kids so social life impaired anyway but it’s starting to bite now but I can only imagine what it must be like for folks in their going out prime - nightmare!!!

[660]

A nation of mental boozers doesn’t mix well with lockdown especially when that nation qualifies for a major tournament for the first time in 22 years. Not sure if anything more can be read from this.

[hibbysam]

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You asked what could have been done. I answered. Don't see what your problem is.

If you are stupid enough to not see that what happened was wrong then you are part of the problem.

It doesn't matter whether we know if anyone there was positive or not. There is a chance that there was someone and that's too much risk. It simply is not fair on everyone who is following the rules or who would be affected.

And your answer would’ve caused far bigger problems. And then you’d be saying how irresponsible it was of them to turn the tele off. Had Serbia won these scenes wouldn’t have happened, so having the tele on isn’t the issue. Let’s just go back to having a ***** international team and we won’t see these scenes.

I’m not saying the scenes aren’t wrong, I’m saying they are understandable from the punters point of view, and unavoidable from the landlords point of view.

[PatHead]

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And your answer would’ve caused far bigger problems. And then you’d be saying how irresponsible it was of them to turn the tele off. Had Serbia won these scenes wouldn’t have happened, so having the tele on isn’t the issue. Let’s just go back to having a ***** international team and we won’t see these scenes.

I’m not saying the scenes aren’t wrong, I’m saying they are understandable from the punters point of view, and unavoidable from the landlords point of view.

Sorry but I wouldn't have been saying how irresponsible it was so don't put words in my mouth.

It could and probably should have been done when the police came in.

It is the publicans responsibility to ensure a safe environment for all the punters. He failed to do so by allowing so many people in. It is therefore his fault.

Anyway I'm bored of your constant defending of the indefensible so let's just leave it at that.

[Moulin Yarns]

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We had Covid under control. Guarantee your one of the ones that swallow the ‘it’s the peoples fault we’re back in lockdown’ *****. We all done as we were told and the government made a **** of it. But that’s going well off track. The point is, the pub can’t control what happened unless they turned the TV’s off. The only way they should get in bother is if the doors were open after the allotted time, or they weren’t following 6/2 table rules. Unless there is proof to show this then the old ‘shut them down’ brigade would be best served coming off their high horse.

I'll ask again. Do you believe that the pub staff got everyone out and the door locked in under 8 minutes?

[hibbysam]

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Sorry but I wouldn't have been saying how irresponsible it was so don't put words in my mouth.

It could and probably should have been done when the police came in.

It is the publicans responsibility to ensure a safe environment for all the punters. He failed to do so by allowing so many people in. It is therefore his fault.

Anyway I'm bored of your constant defending of the indefensible so let's just leave it at that.

So you’d have been happy for him to put the tele off, putting his staff in danger when it all kicked off, when social distancing went out the window when it all kicked off, the likelihood of it taking a much longer time period to empty the pub, all because there was a chance Scotland may have won on penalties.

I’m glad you’ll give it a rest though. The government allowed pubs to open, I’ve no doubt he never let more in than his licence allowed, I’d expect the punters were truthful about their residences, and everyone would be out the door on time. If any of those three things never happened then we can have a go at the pub, if he/she followed those rules then leaving the tele on is completely within his regulations and you’ve had a stinker.

[hibbysam]

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I'll ask again. Do you believe that the pub staff got everyone out and the door locked in under 8 minutes?

I’d like to think so. I mean it wouldn’t take 30 seconds to empty the pub, so 8 minutes is more than doable. Unless you can say that it never happened then it’s not a stick you can use to beat the owner with. It also has zero impact on the scenes that happened if it went a minute or two over.

[Peevemor]

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I’d like to think so. I mean it wouldn’t take 30 seconds to empty the pub, so 8 minutes is more than doable. Unless you can say that it never happened then it’s not a stick you can use to beat the owner with. It also has zero impact on the scenes that happened if it went a minute or two over.

I think you're kidding yourself on.

[hibbysam]

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I think you're kidding yourself on.

Im not one for speculating when there’s no proof involved. That wouldn’t help the situation at all. If the pub never shut on time then they will be dealt with for that.

[DH1875]

How did all the other pubs get on? Surely they weren't the only ine's in the Aberdeen area showing the game.

[hibbysam]

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How did all the other pubs get on? Surely they weren't the only ine's in the Aberdeen area showing the game.

There’s at least one in Helensburgh and one in Inverness on social media with fans celebrating in the beer garden. I’d imagine any pub that was open, and had a contingent of under 30’s in, would have had celebration issues at the conclusion of penalties. Just because it’s not on social media, doesn’t mean it never happened.

[DH1875]

Did someone say pitch invasion?



No reason, just because

[Moulin Yarns]

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And your answer would’ve caused far bigger problems. And then you’d be saying how irresponsible it was of them to turn the tele off. Had Serbia won these scenes wouldn’t have happened, so having the tele on isn’t the issue. Let’s just go back to having a ***** international team and we won’t see these scenes.

I’m not saying the scenes aren’t wrong, I’m saying they are understandable from the punters point of view, and unavoidable from the landlords point of view.

You realise some pubs manage fine without television, music or any other distraction. My local is very popular with locals and tourists alike with no external noises.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I’d like to think so. I mean it wouldn’t take 30 seconds to empty the pub, so 8 minutes is more than doable. Unless you can say that it never happened then it’s not a stick you can use to beat the owner with. It also has zero impact on the scenes that happened if it went a minute or two over.

While the punters were going mental with 8 minutes to closing? Not in the real world.

[Just Alf]

Well this thread raced along while I was away.

In simple terms, the pub had a choice, show the football with a drastically reduced number of customers to ensure it wouldn't break any Covid guidelines. OR do what some pubs in Blackpool and Carlisle did for the old firm game and not open at all that day.

Not taking either of these options has put their licence and the wider pub trade at more risk of a harder lockdown, and that's not even mentioning the increased chance of spreading the virus.




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[Juniper Greens]

I've enjoyed reading hibbysam spout absolute nonsense on this thread to be fair. Seems to have a love in with this bar and defend everything it did. Just setting out some of the facts that we know from the videos, which in my opinion demonstrate the mistakes that the pub made:
They did not enforce the 6, 2 rule. Some groups were clearly from more that two household and the bench seating was not appropriately divided
They chose to max out the 250 capacity limit, on a night when they knew the punters were likely to have enjoyed the service and been boisterous. Would have been far more sensible not to operate at capacity.
They chose to continue to show the game at a later time that they should have, knowing that they would not be able to empty the pub in time for the law.
This bar has been set up in place of a different, indoor bar owned by the same man, the very bar which was most heavily criticised during the first Aberdeen outbreak as not adhering to rules. The owner should have been on a "yellow card" as NS would say and should have made all decisions on the cautious side, rather than pushing the boundaries of (or just breaking in some areas) the rules

[DH1875]

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Well this thread raced along while I was away.

In simple terms, the pub had a choice, show the football with a drastically reduced number of customers to ensure it wouldn't break any Covid guidelines. OR do what some pubs in Blackpool and Carlisle did for the old firm game and not open at all that day.

Not taking either of these options has put their licence and the wider pub trade at more risk of a harder lockdown, and that's not even mentioning the increased chance of spreading the virus.




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Like I said earlier, because it was Scotland we are supposed to be ok with it. What if later this year its the rangers v benfica and it goes to penalties to see who qualifies for next round for Europa league. Suppose that'll be alright as well then IF they win.

[1875godsgift]

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Like I said earlier, because it was Scotland we are supposed to be ok with it. What if later this year its the rangers v benfica and it goes to penalties to see who qualifies for next round for Europa league. Suppose that'll be alright as well then IF they win.

I really hope the new huns lose.

[basehibby]

I think the obvious way to avoid this problem would have been for the eejit who filmed it to keep his/her mobile phone in his pocket - or not to share the footage on youtube at least.

I'm presuming that whoever it was appreciated the opportunity to watch the game in the pub with a few pals - so it was a pretty brainless way to show that appreciation - sharing the footage on social media and so getting those who had provided that facility into bother.

[hibbysam]

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I've enjoyed reading hibbysam spout absolute nonsense on this thread to be fair. Seems to have a love in with this bar and defend everything it did. Just setting out some of the facts that we know from the videos, which in my opinion demonstrate the mistakes that the pub made:
They did not enforce the 6, 2 rule. Some groups were clearly from more that two household and the bench seating was not appropriately divided
They chose to max out the 250 capacity limit, on a night when they knew the punters were likely to have enjoyed the service and been boisterous. Would have been far more sensible not to operate at capacity.
They chose to continue to show the game at a later time that they should have, knowing that they would not be able to empty the pub in time for the law.
This bar has been set up in place of a different, indoor bar owned by the same man, the very bar which was most heavily criticised during the first Aberdeen outbreak as not adhering to rules. The owner should have been on a "yellow card" as NS would say and should have made all decisions on the cautious side, rather than pushing the boundaries of (or just breaking in some areas) the rules

😂😂😂 couldnt care less about the bar to be fair, been on a night out in Aberdeen about twice in my life.

Secondly, your ‘facts’ aren’t facts, they’re guesswork at this moment. You don’t know that the 6/2 rule wasn’t enforced. But if it wasn’t then the bar should be punished, like any should.

What is sensible or not isn’t the law. I’m sure the local licensing board will decide whether their tables worked within the remit of their licence, again, if they didn’t they will be punished.

Your another that seems to think turning the tele off earlier would have solved all issues, completely disregarding the safety of staff, and the fact that if they did so it would’ve been even more dangerous, remembering at that point no one could have known Scotland would win on penalties.

My argument is IF the bar followed their rules (households, time etc) then they can’t be to blame. The blame lies with those celebrating, and I totally understand it, it was a natural reaction. The same as the pub in Helensburgh, and in Inverness, and I’d imagine the many many more not captured on someone’s phone. As far as I know no report has been concluded and no punishments given, until then it’s probably best not to speculate based on your own ‘facts’.