Neandrathal BBC Pundits

[Cataplana]

On the radio yesterday, Michael Stewart rightly pointed out that Rangers can hardly say they are tackling sectarianism when they are selling Orange strips. He was the subjected to a tirade of vitriol from Billy Dodds, and particularly Derek Ferguson, who claimed the strips were an homage to the Dutch players who did so well for them in the past.

Time and again, Michael asked Ferguson if he could not see the connotations between an Orange strip, and the songs that the Huns sing. At one point I thought it would be fisticuffs, and Richard Gordon had to move the subject on.

My point is this. If the BBC employ people to comment on football, they should have to demonstrate an awareness of the issues involved (Ferguson said he could not see the connotation, and hadn't considered it until Stewart spoke - the contradiction was very much in keeping with his performance on the day). There must be some sort of diversity training that pundits can go on, as all Ferguson and Dodds did was fly a partisan flag, instead of admitting there is a connection between Rangers, Sectarianism, and the Orange Order.

If they want to argue that the Orange strips have nothing to do with that, with a straight face, then that is their business. As it was, the BBC could probably find more impartial contributors in the Loudon Arms.

[hibee1875]

I heard this too and was gobsmacked in all honesty that this was happening on the BBC and not Rangers TV.

Even Billy Dodds comment of “when I was young we’d go to the games and sing these songs and it was fine. It’s not fine nowadays, the young boys don’t know what they’re singing about”. How was it fine to sing it back in the day!?

Two absolute deluded dinosaurs. Rangers issue will never go away when everyone connected with them has their head so far in the sand.

[Dr Jimmy]

I couldn’t believe what I was hearing from those two yesterday. I actually burst out laughing when Ferguson said he hadn’t thought of the correlation with the tops and sectarianism until Stewart just mentioned it.

Operation sweep it under the carpet has begun!

[BILLYHIBS]

Michael Stewart fast becoming one of my favourite pundits

Everyone connected with The Rangers needs to be sent on a rehabilitation course

Starting to feel that Steven Gerrard is genuinely embarrassed by the behaviour of all of his clubs fans

[Carheenlea]

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I heard this too and was gobsmacked in all honesty that this was happening on the BBC and not Rangers TV.

Even Billy Dodds comment of “when I was young we’d go to the games and sing these songs and it was fine. It’s not fine nowadays, the young boys don’t know what they’re singing about”. How was it fine to sing it back in the day!?

Two absolute deluded dinosaurs. Rangers issue will never go away when everyone connected with them has their head so far in the sand.

Billy Dodds is effectively saying that his generation knew what the songs about so that made it OK in his day. Guys a clown, and it’s a sad state of affairs that guys like him and Ferguson are being paid to be pundits by the BBC. Surely there are more thoughtful and erudite commentators of Scottish football than those pair.

[CloudSquall]

That line from Billy Dodds is incredible (for all the wrong reasons).

Let's say the songs were about ethnic minorities instead of catholics and he came out with the "when I was young we’d go to the games and sing these songs and it was fine" patter, he wouldn't be in a job now and would be unemployable going forward.

[JimBHibees]

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Billy Dodds is effectively saying that his generation knew what the songs about so that made it OK in his day. Guys a clown, and it’s a sad state of affairs that guys like him and Ferguson are being paid to be pundits by the BBC. Surely there are more thoughtful and erudite commentators of Scottish football than those pair.

Ferguson and Dodds aren't the brightest to be fair.

[JimBHibees]

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Billy Dodds is effectively saying that his generation knew what the songs about so that made it OK in his day. Guys a clown, and it’s a sad state of affairs that guys like him and Ferguson are being paid to be pundits by the BBC. Surely there are more thoughtful and erudite commentators of Scottish football than those pair.

The only reason they get a job is because they both played for Rangers

[hibee1875]

https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/complaints/for...&uid=309158700

[Crab apple]

It’s beyond embarrasing. They might not be the brightest lights in the room but they’re having a laugh if they can’t see the link.

[Pretty Boy]

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I heard this too and was gobsmacked in all honesty that this was happening on the BBC and not Rangers TV.

Even Billy Dodds comment of “when I was young we’d go to the games and sing these songs and it was fine. It’s not fine nowadays, the young boys don’t know what they’re singing about”. How was it fine to sing it back in the day!?

Two absolute deluded dinosaurs. Rangers issue will never go away when everyone connected with them has their head so far in the sand.

That whole conversation was totally mental. 'These songs are offensive now' is the same as saying 'it's PC gone mad'. The songs are offensive now but they have always been offensive. It's the defence of the man who still talks about the 'nipping to the pakis for a pint of milk' despite everyone and their dog knowing that is a racial slur. It's not that the words have suddenly become offensive,, it's people now being brave enough to call it our for what it is.

Rangers (and Celtic) ultimately have little to gain by seriously tackling sectarianism. It's big business. Of course they will tick the boxes, broadcast the messages and so on but the orange strips, training tops etc will remain. It would also be interesting to know how many people either club has banned over the last decade, as an example time line, for such behaviour. At Ibrox recently a huge majority were singing the Billy Boys and Build My Gallows amongst others. Did the extensive Police presence, stewards, CCTV, SLOs and all the smart phones with cameras in the stadium not capture any of it?

[weecounty hibby]

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Ferguson and Dodds aren't the brightest to be fair.

Being thick isn't an excuse for being a bigot

[James Stephen]

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I couldn’t believe what I was hearing from those two yesterday. I actually burst out laughing when Ferguson said he hadn’t thought of the correlation with the tops and sectarianism until Stewart just mentioned it.

Operation sweep it under the carpet has begun!

The thing is, it doesn't matter a jot whether Derek Ferguson gets the connotations, he's hardly known for his razor sharp intellect. He's still struggling to read a match report out unless it's written in big capitals with a crayon.

The point is, we can all be damn sure that the huns marketing do know the connotations, and that is the point that Michael Stewart was making.

The quality of the guys they have on their now is lamentable. It used to be mostly made up of journalists, now it's ex players who are barely literate, often don't even understand the rules (saying 'in my day' or 'for me' doesn't negate the fact that the rules have changed).

[DMH0762]

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It’s beyond embarrasing. They might not be the brightest lights in the room but they’re having a laugh if they can’t see the link.

Aye that William of Orange stuff escaped me too. Cannot for the life of me see the connection. Was King Billious not a raging homo ?

[James310]

They has a strip a few years ago with a sash running across it as well. I actually emailed Hummel the strip makers to point out they were endorsing bigotry as I suspected they never knew the significance, they were not interested. I don't for one minute believe Ferguson never saw the connection, he is a liar.

[hibbydog]

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Being thick isn't an excuse for being a bigot

No but it is a reason, sadly.

[Fife-Hibee]

Well Billy Dodds was half right. The orange strips and scarfs are certainly in reference to A Dutchman...

The fact he thinks it’s ok to sing those songs (as long as you understand what they’re about) shows what a slavering bigot he actually is.

If the BBC had any integrity whatsoever, they’d sack him right now. But seeing as they don’t, it’s more likely Stewart (fair play to him) will get a slap on the wrist.

[Hibee Mac]

Michael Stewart - great pundit.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

I also heard Ferguson say that 'those types of songs' have now become offensive! WTF.

[BlackSheep]

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They has a strip a few years ago with a sash running across it as well. I actually emailed Hummel the strip makers to point out they were endorsing bigotry as I suspected they never knew the significance, they were not interested. I don't for one minute believe Ferguson never saw the connection, he is a liar.

Denmark, where Hummel originated from, is predominantly a Protestant country. While they are not as fanatical about religion as other countries, they definitely er on that side of Christianity and it’s no surprise Hummel are more than happy to ignore the bigoted aspect of their strip designs.

On top of that, they know their market and all the hun fans will be throwing their money at anything to represent their religious hatred!

[wookie70]

From what Ferguson said he is a representative of Nil by Mouth and Kick It Out or similar organisations. He clearly said that The Rangers songbook was NOW deemed to be offensive. That is breathtaking ignorance. In his exchange about the orange kit he just sounded like a typical The Rangers fan. Stewart was saying that Ferguson was arguing that the club had done EVERYTHING they could and that having Orange strips was clearly an indication that that was not the case. Dodds wasn't any better and in a discussion that should have been about moving forward it felt like the old guard were far more comfortable in the past.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Cat amongst the Pigeons - love it;)

The marketers would hold the party line tho and would likely claim it was homage to the Dutch in the same way they did for the English players with that saddo George’s cross...

The Beeb are terrible surprisingly Off the Ball got in on the act about a month ago. A former player had written a show which on the face of it appear to be able the relationships between the uglies fans and their clubs they got around the sectarian issues by saying they counted the jokes and that there was an equal number for each team - top bantz.

When the dinosaur that is Tam Cowan (who should know better after his suspension) brings out references to the 70s term for a double choc wafer (and justifies if like Billy Dodds did - different era) and doesn’t get pulled up you know there’s a theme or culture in the Beeb around this.

[Cataplana]

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https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/complaints/for...&uid=309158700

I've copied my original post to them. Anyone who wants to use it can feel free.

[Cataplana]

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Denmark, where Hummel originated from, is predominantly a Protestant country. While they are not as fanatical about religion as other countries, they definitely er on that side of Christianity and it’s no surprise Hummel are more than happy to ignore the bigoted aspect of their strip designs.

On top of that, they know their market and all the hun fans will be throwing their money at anything to represent their religious hatred!

I am on that side of Christianity too, and think you are speaking nonsense. In fact, you have toppes Ferguson for bigotry this weekend. Something I didn't think would be possible.

[Monts]

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Denmark, where Hummel originated from, is predominantly a Protestant country. While they are not as fanatical about religion as other countries, they definitely er on that side of Christianity and it’s no surprise Hummel are more than happy to ignore the bigoted aspect of their strip designs.

On top of that, they know their market and all the hun fans will be throwing their money at anything to represent their religious hatred!

Are you saying Hummel are bigots because they come from Denmark??

[hibbydog]

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Michael Stewart - great pundit.

Totally agree. Really refreshing that he has the intelligence and the balls to call these guys out for what they are.

[Cataplana]

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Cat amongst the Pigeons - love it;)

The marketers would hold the party line tho and would likely claim it was homage to the Dutch in the same way they did for the English players with that saddo George’s cross...

The Beeb are terrible surprisingly Off the Ball got in on the act about a month ago. A former player had written a show which on the face of it appear to be able the relationships between the uglies fans and their clubs they got around the sectarian issues by saying they counted the jokes and that there was an equal number for each team - top bantz.

When the dinosaur that is Tam Cowan (who should know better after his suspension) brings out references to the 70s term for a double choc wafer (and justifies if like Billy Dodds did - different era) and doesn’t get pulled up you know there’s a theme or culture in the Beeb around this.

I actually think there is a changing of the guard at the Beeb just now, as old stagers who have traded on the same act for the last 25 years are cleared out. Jackie Bird has clearly been given the heave from the Hogmanay nonsense, I'm sure Only and Excuse will not reappear too.

With the arrival of new blood in the sports department, like Stewart and Thomson, it looks like an end for the likes of Fergie, Doddsy, and all the other ex OF players who know hee haw about the game.

The whole west coast, tongue in cheek bigotry is becoming a thing of the past.

[DMH0762]

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I actually think there is a changing of the guard at the Beeb just now, as old stagers who have traded on the same act for the last 25 years are cleared out. Jackie Bird has clearly been given the heave from the Hogmanay nonsense, I'm sure Only and Excuse will not reappear too.

With the arrival of new blood in the sports department, like Stewart and Thomson, it looks like an end for the likes of Fergie, Doddsy, and all the other ex OF players who know hee haw about the game.

The whole west coast, tongue in cheek bigotry is becoming a thing of the past.

Beggars belief !!! So celebrating the death of a Catholic man by singing "Penny Arcade" is "tongue in cheek is it??? They and all connected with them are vile and know **** all about Christianity or tolerance.

Dream on you idiot if you believe the establishment will shift position.

[Jones28]

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Michael Stewart fast becoming one of my favourite pundits

Everyone connected with The Rangers needs to be sent on a rehabilitation course

Starting to feel that Steven Gerrard is genuinely embarrassed by the behaviour of all of his clubs fans

You wonder if Gerrard new the half of it when he first came up here? Would he have had a clue about just how close these people’s knuckles were to floor?

[aljo7-0]

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Denmark, where Hummel originated from, is predominantly a Protestant country. While they are not as fanatical about religion as other countries, they definitely er on that side of Christianity and it’s no surprise Hummel are more than happy to ignore the bigoted aspect of their strip designs.

On top of that, they know their market and all the hun fans will be throwing their money at anything to represent their religious hatred!

Catholicism is part of Christianity too! Or at least I always thought it was. Your post is wrong for a few reasons.