Players budget

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

While true, that money would be included in their yearly projections with transfer budget etc taken into consideration including benefactors money. It’s different from running at a loss and covering it with mystery money. How do they get pass ffp though I wonder?

There is no FFP in Scotland for them to pass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[worcesterhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

'May' is, as they say, doing quite a lot of work here.

Absolutely, but I think it's worth pointing out that you can fail to announce a shirt sponsor and still not be down financially.

[The 90+2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There is no FFP in Scotland for them to pass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There should be after all the clubs going into admin/dying but that makes more sense that they get away with it.

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Just because they are running at a loss doesn’t mean they are not bringing in more money commercially. Lucky for us, Hearts waste a lot of money.

Exactly. They run at a loss therefore I find it ridiculous to use them as an example for how to do things, especially in terms of commercial revenue where, as explained before, they have a higher turnover but also dozens of extra staff to pay. They could even be running at a loss in this respect for all we know.

Aberdeen on the other hand are using the extra money they bring in to put a consistently better team out on the park than us.
We are entitled to ask why that is when they get lower crowds than us. We need to look at what they are doing and try to emulate it.

As posted before being a one team city changes everything. A better comparison would be the Dundee teams.

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Folk said it about Petrie for years, it lead to half empty stadium and relegation.

Did they? I can't remember RP being described as competent.

[Siralbertkidd]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Hearing a few people on here with the right questions and some good responses.

Leeann has rightly said:
“With respect to the football budget, it is never going to be impacted by these decisions. Paul and his team will continue to get very strong support from the club, as they always do.

“Not one penny will be lost to him from this decision.

“I actually think it will encourage everyone to look forward to buying the strip, wearing it and supporting the Foundation throughout their different campaigns.”

The Hibernian Community Foundation Will now have more exposure and financial backing which is fantastic.

The club will now re-align Finances in other areas to account for no commercial sponsor on the front of shirt. I can’t go into that for commercial sensitivity as pointed out - there is no concern here. It’s looking at all the options and deciding what gives us more value.

I'm afraid I see a bit of a conflict of interest as LD is a Director of the Foundation, who are the main benificiaries. I am sure she would declare this at the time, but I would like to have it confirmed by you as a Board Member. We are definately going to have to cut costs to cover the shortfall, so I suspect no tannoy improvements, no hot water in the East toilets, etc, etc, and I am keen to know as much as possible without breaching commercial sensitivity of those we turned down in favour of the Foundation?

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

'May' is, as they say, doing quite a lot of work here.

Because there are numerous reasons which could explain why Hibs have ended up with HCF on their shirts.

[The 90+2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Did they? I can't remember RP being described as competent.

I heard him being called a lot worse in the East.

[MyJo]

The club haven't failed to attract a sponsor, it's been confirmed that there were a couple of offers available to us that have been turned down in favour of the Community Foundation option.

Yes this is all being dressed up as us making an ethical choice, that's just marketing, but I don't believe that Dempster is a liar. If there was no offers on the table I would expect zero comment on this or her words to be selected more carefully to avoid reference to other offers rather than to openly admit there was two other companies we could have chosen.

The people in charge of running our club (and who have done a bloody good job of it over the last 5 years IMO) have been comfortable in not accepting what they consider to be an unsuitable offer from a sponsor purely to pull in money, no matter the cost, or to save face with "fans" who are seeing this as some sort of world-ending catastrophe.

It's clear the club now have criteria that we look for in our commercial partners that fits in with the ethos of the club along with the value of these types of partnerships moving forward. If that means we spend a season with a charity on the front of the kit so we can take the time needed to find the right partner for us the following 3-5 years then so be it.

I personally don't have an issue with gambling companies as sponsors but its clear a sizeable portion of the Hibs support and population in general do.It looks like the club have paid attention to that feedback and want to take a stand on this front. I would much rather support a club willing to stick by its principles and do what it considers the right thing than a club willing to do anything for more money.

As for the club refusing to accept alcohol sponsorship, we continue to have Eden Mill as a prominent partner on the kit and in the stadium while there is also a supplier partnership with Carling so I'm not sure why people think this is the case. Either way only time will tell and we will find that out when the deal with Eden Mill comes to an end.

I don't have the inclination to dig into it but I would assume that those who are criticising the club for not accepting whatever sponsor was available had nothing to say about us partnering with marathonbet or the various alcohol companies we've had over the years, or McEwan Fraser and their quick-sale property business or our recent vaping partner? I guess that they were also unconcerned by Hearts being sponsored by Wonga or a dodgy, money laundering, Lithuanian Bank that didn't even operate in the UK? Just so long as they were getting money for it, right?

[My_Wife_Camille]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It is staggering just how many financial and commercial experts use Hibs.net.

You don’t need to be a financial expert to know that less money is worse than more money ffs 😂

[we are hibs]

its staggering the amount of people on here who think you need to be an expert in something to have an opinion about it.

[One Day Soon]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

IF the playing budget is not affected, as per LD's statement, the conclusions I draw are that:

1. Sponsorship money never went to playing budget in the first place.
2. Money lost from whatever budget it DID go to, has been underwritten privately
3. HSL is unaffected as a result as I don't believe for one second that those paying a £5 for the logo are now saying 'aww I had that fiver ring fenced for HSL'


LD is almost as commercially astute as Old Man Roderick, I don't believe that Hibs have lost out at all. Even if there has been an almighty cock-up in the commercial department, I bet RP and LD have rescued it via other sources, given that it's their job to do so.

Hibs have never been slow to use loss of income as an excuse for poor sporting performance. We haven't played that card which tells me we've sorted it another way.

Devil's Advocate:

1. Player budget would be composed of a number of revenue sources, predominantly the more stable ones since there is a requirement to both pay up front any fees needed to bring players in but also - and far more importantly - be able to pay their salaries across the period of a season at a minimum but also to do so across the period of their contracts. A three year deal with Marathon Bet must have been one of the most predicable annual sources of income there was so it seems likely that it would have contributed to player budget.

2. Money lost from either whatever other budget the Marathon money was spent on or from whatever other budget was raided to replace the Marathon money in the player budget can only have been dealt with in one of four ways and I would suggest privately underwritten is the least likely. They are: We increased our income all round to an extent that the loss is being absorbed, we have decided to stop doing something that we were previously doing, we have delayed doing something that we otherwise planned to do, a private benefactor has underwritten the sponsorship loss.

If a private benefactor is underwriting the loss that is effectively the same thing as saying that a private benefactor is paying for the Foundation logos to be available on all strips. The club are not stating that a benefactor is paying for the Foundation opportunity so we either have a spectacular PR screw up or there is no benefactor/underwriter.

3. HSL is not unaffected because a big part of its pitch is that every penny donated goes to the playing squad. Harder to make that pitch convincing when the club appears to be stating that it is in a position that it can shed a significant six figure sum in sponsorship and still protect the playing budget. If that is the case how much more could have been added to our competitiveness on the park with a decent sponsor income?

If we take the lower end of sponsor figures suggested - £100,000 annually - that is equivalent to 277 HSL donors (just over 2% of the 12,000 season tickets we hope to sell this year) at the HSL top suggested donor rate of £30 per month. Or 833 HSL donors (almost 7% of the 12,000 season tickets we hope to sell this year) at the HSL donor rate of £10 per month.

4. If there has been a commercial cock-up there's no doubt that Rod and Leeann will have acted fast to contain the commercial and football consequences. However dressing it up with the Foundation outcome looks quite a lot like what it seems to be - a sticking plaster to mask the failure to land a sponsor.

5. We haven't used the loss of income/poor sporting performance card because we can't. This isn't a season tickets are down/football generally is struggling/we need to do infrastructure first scenario. It's a 'we had a sponsor and we've failed to replace them' scenario which doesn't look too good.

I am generally the happiest of clappers but even I can see there are legitimate questions in this. To be fair, I can also see that they are not easy to answer in public for commercial and other reasons. It does seem odd however to be the only club in the SPFL to have failed to attract a shirt sponsor commensurate with the status of the club.

Meanwhile back at the shirts themselves the green one is slowly growing on me but the purple one gets worse every time I look at it.

[One Day Soon]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Absolutely, but I think it's worth pointing out that you can fail to announce a shirt sponsor and still not be down financially.

Agreed. It is possible to be in both an improved financial position and simultaneously in not as good a financial position as you could have been.

[My_Wife_Camille]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

its staggering the amount of people on here who think you need to be an expert in something to have an opinion about it.

They only think that if it’s a so called ‘negative’ opinion though, which makes it even funnier.

[One Day Soon]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Because there are numerous reasons which could explain why Hibs have ended up with HCF on their shirts.

There are - but I would suggest that 'failing to secure a sponsor' is holding the weapon, has left its fingerprints all over the place and has been apprehended trying to flee the scene of the crime...

[CockneyRebel]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The club haven't failed to attract a sponsor, it's been confirmed that there were a couple of offers available to us that have been turned down in favour of the Community Foundation option.

Yes this is all being dressed up as us making an ethical choice, that's just marketing, but I don't believe that Dempster is a liar. If there was no offers on the table I would expect zero comment on this or her words to be selected more carefully to avoid reference to other offers rather than to openly admit there was two other companies we could have chosen.

The people in charge of running our club (and who have done a bloody good job of it over the last 5 years IMO) have been comfortable in not accepting what they consider to be an unsuitable offer from a sponsor purely to pull in money, no matter the cost, or to save face with "fans" who are seeing this as some sort of world-ending catastrophe.

It's clear the club now have criteria that we look for in our commercial partners that fits in with the ethos of the club along with the value of these types of partnerships moving forward. If that means we spend a season with a charity on the front of the kit so we can take the time needed to find the right partner for us the following 3-5 years then so be it.

I personally don't have an issue with gambling companies as sponsors but its clear a sizeable portion of the Hibs support and population in general do.It looks like the club have paid attention to that feedback and want to take a stand on this front. I would much rather support a club willing to stick by its principles and do what it considers the right thing than a club willing to do anything for more money.

As for the club refusing to accept alcohol sponsorship, we continue to have Eden Mill as a prominent partner on the kit and in the stadium while there is also a supplier partnership with Carling so I'm not sure why people think this is the case. Either way only time will tell and we will find that out when the deal with Eden Mill comes to an end.

I don't have the inclination to dig into it but I would assume that those who are criticising the club for not accepting whatever sponsor was available had nothing to say about us partnering with marathonbet or the various alcohol companies we've had over the years, or McEwan Fraser and their quick-sale property business or our recent vaping partner? I guess that they were also unconcerned by Hearts being sponsored by Wonga or a dodgy, money laundering, Lithuanian Bank that didn't even operate in the UK? Just so long as they were getting money for it, right?

I have criticised the board in the past and will probably do so in the future. I don't bury my head in the sand and I have a moan on here when I think it justified but I have enough confidence in the present board/management set up to do a good job for this club. These people see more of the "bigger picture" than most outsiders and I am happy to leave them to it to do what they feel is best.

[The_Horde]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You don’t need to be a financial expert to know that less money is worse than more money ffs 😂

If the reported 250k loss of marathonbet is correct then I'm assuming people won't be bothered if we sign Doidge for the same amount of money and there won't any more pressure on him hitting the ground running than one of our free agents?

[MrRobot]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yet Leanne is quoted as saying they were "good offers"

What if the 2 good offers were from companies that Hibs don’t want to be associate with? Gambling, payday loans and even alcohol should be avoided IMO.

[Golden Bear]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What if the 2 good offers were from companies that Hibs don’t want to be associate with? Gambling, payday loans and even alcohol should be avoided IMO.

That policy is fine if it is followed by all Clubs. However I don't want my Club to fall further behind our rivals at the expense of being ethically or whatever correct.

[WhileTheChief..]

This is the crux of it for me.

Did the club turn down any offers cause they weren’t worth what we were looking for?

Or did we turn down the offers due to the nature of the businesses involved?

Both are problems but the latter is of our own making.

[Since452]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This is the crux of it for me.

Did the club turn down any offers cause they weren’t worth what we were looking for?

Or did we turn down the offers due to the nature of the businesses involved?

Both are problems but the latter is of our own making.

100% agree. If we're turning down good deals because we're taking the moral high ground while our rivals surge ahead then I'd be disappointed. I doubt it's the latter though as we're still carrying Eden Mill on our strips.

[SMAXXA]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

100% agree. If we're turning down good deals because we're taking the moral high ground while our rivals surge ahead then I'd be disappointed.

Lol who’s going to honestly ‘surge’ ahead it’s not going to make or break our season let’s be realistic here.

[MWHIBBIES]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Lol who’s going to honestly ‘surge’ ahead it’s not going to make or break our season let’s be realistic here.

Indeed. Kilmarnock finished above us with a smaller budget. Much more important things going to decide where we finish than a daft shirt sponsor.

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

100% agree. If we're turning down good deals because we're taking the moral high ground while our rivals surge ahead then I'd be disappointed.

So nothing is off limits as long as we get money in to the club? I’ll assume you didn’t criticise the Romanaov era at Tynecastle or the Sevco tax dodging scheme.
How about having a tobacco company sponsor our shirts? The Sun newspaper? There is a line to be drawn and depending on the business I’d be happy to see our club draw it.

[Since452]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Lol who’s going to honestly ‘surge’ ahead it’s not going to make or break our season let’s be realistic here.

Hearts and Aberdeen are both surging ahead financially. Might not want to believe it but it's true.

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Lol who’s going to honestly ‘surge’ ahead it’s not going to make or break our season let’s be realistic here.

Exactly.

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Hearts and Aberdeen are both surging ahead financially.

They are hardly surging ahead. We finished ahead of Hearts the last two seasons.

[Bostonhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Hearts and Aberdeen are both surging ahead financially. Might not want to believe it but it's true.

in terms of what they actually do with their money Hearts are surging behind, like the previous season.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Hearts and Aberdeen are both surging ahead financially. Might not want to believe it but it's true.

Hearts are being baled out by mystery benefactots, otherwise they're losing £2m+ per year.

What happens when that dries up?

[The 90+2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Hearts are being baled out by mystery benefactots, otherwise they're losing £2m+ per year.

What happens when that dries up?

They budget not to spend £2m more on a stand or have topped up by their HSL who will have bought the club by then?