2020-21 season non-Hibs games thread

[supermcginn]

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No. The anti-Catholic sentiment amongst Rangers fans is far worse than the anti-Protestant feeling amongst Celtic fans. Just look at any online forum and compare/contrast the casual sectarianism. Of course Celtic has its bigoted lunatics, but it isn't true to say they are both as bad as each other. Celtic Park is almost devoid of sectarian singing (yes their away fans are a different matter) but Ibrox is unashamedly a home for bigotry. I'm no Celtic fanboy, but it's unfair to say they are equally bad, IMHO. Rangers has been built upon over a century of bigotry, even refusing to sign players because of the Church they were baptised into until 1989. That isn't a normal football club.

You've just proved my point. They are 100 percent two cheeks of the same arse. I'd actually say celtic fans border on worse tbh, last time they were at ER they were an absolute disgrace intimidating pensioners.

[supermcginn]

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It isn't an excuse (all sectarian bigotry is totally unacceptable) but a reflection of the scale of the problem. I think the old 'both as bad as each other' line is lazy. Is our problem in this matter as bad as Hearts'? No way. It's merely an objective description of the reality.

It's not lazy it's the uncomfortable truth for some hibs fans.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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I don’t think they are quite the same.

Being very general here on complex issues and allocating those issues to football teams but for me the Rangers side of things is active hatred towards others. I’ve always seen the Celtic side of things as just a reaction to that.

Calvinism has defined Scotland for four hundred years. Mass Catholic immigration from Ireland in the nineteenth century created suspicion and even hostility, which in turn created discrimination. Its legacy runs deep and persists; progress is slower than England, for example, due to its Reformation being less hardline than Scotland's. It's festered ever since and has manifested itself in various ways. Thankfully we've taken massive strides forward via legislation and education, but idiocy persists and sectarianism (from both sides) remains a national embarrassment.

However, this is deep stuff and better suited to a BBC 4 documentary.

[Pretty Boy]

I wish I had never said anything now.

I've moved from 'someone else winning the league this year and ending the 10 in a row tedium would be hilarious, even Rangers' to 'someone else winning the league this year and ending the 10 in a row tedium would be hilarious, especially Rangers'. The absolute meltdown of Celtic fans when they blew it on the last day v Motherwell all those years ago was a sight to behold. Their anger towards us in particular with the implication we somehow owed them a favour was ridiculous and it would be a million times funnier this time around.

For the record it's my view that when it comes to bigotry and sectarianism Rangers fans are far, far worse. If you went into Celtic Park for an average home game you would find a sizeable minority who weren't from Catholic backgrounds and a decent number of that minority would have been raised as Protestant, granted perhaps only nominally. You would be lucky to find a handful of Catholics in the home end at Ibrox. That's only part of the difference but it's a significant part. A Protestant could attend Celtic Park, or travel away with Celtic, and likely hear little if anything that was explicitly anti Protestant. A Catholic within a Rangers support would need pretty thick skin.

If anything Celtic fans annoy me because of their flitting between patronising us and trying to besmirch our history by branding us 'soup takers' and the like. I dislike both sets of fans for a variety of reasons but the 'two cheeks' argument doesn't wash.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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You've just proved my point. They are 100 percent two cheeks of the same arse. I'd actually say celtic fans border on worse tbh, last time they were at ER they were an absolute disgrace intimidating pensioners.

I don't think it's that simple. I think we need to separate anti-social behaviour from deep rooted systemic religious bigotry, but that isn't to underplay other problems. There are many problems, many rivers to cross.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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I wish I had never said anything now.

I've moved from 'someone else winning the league this year and ending the 10 in a row tedium would be hilarious, even Rangers' to 'someone else winning the league this year and ending the 10 in a row tedium would be hilarious, especially Rangers'. The absolute meltdown of Celtic fans when they blew it on the last day v Motherwell all those years ago was a sight to behold. Their anger towards us in particular with the implication we somehow owed them a favour was ridiculous and it would be a million times funnier this time around.

For the record it's my view that when it comes to bigotry and sectarianism Rangers fans are far, far worse. If you went into Celtic Park for an average home game you would find a sizeable minority who weren't from Catholic backgrounds and a decent number of that minority would have been raised as Protestant, granted perhaps only nominally. You would be lucky to find a handful of Catholics in the home end at Ibrox. That's only part of the difference but it's a significant part. A Protestant could attend Celtic Park, or travel away with Celtic, and likely hear little if anything that was explicitly anti Protestant. A Catholic within a Rangers support would need pretty thick skin.

If anything Celtic fans annoy me because of their flitting between patronising us and trying to besmirch our history by branding us 'soup takers' and the like. I dislike both sets of fans for a variety of reasons but the 'two cheeks' argument doesn't wash.

Aye, be quiet ye Fenian bassa.

[Wheat Hound]

It's all irrelevant anyway, Hibs are winning the league.

[Scott Allan Key]

So, who's top of the league, anyhoo?

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[The Count]

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Aye, be quiet ye Fenian bassa.

This of course is another Hun error.The original Fenians were both Church of Ireland and Catholic.Hence i am not bothered if i am called FenianI am bothered when i am cslled a Pape though.Just to finish as bad as the IRA might of been it is not someones religion and again the original IRA consisted of people of both faiths and none.Anyway as one poster said this argument has been done to death and i am proud the Hibbies are of all faithsand no faiths bound together by the love of our club.Be Happy top of the League!!!!

[Carheenlea]

The 10 in a row stuff means as much to me as whoever wins in a Hamilton v Livingston clash. Really not bothered who or who doesn’t do it.

Shouldn’t really mean anything to any non-old firm fan and I’m happy to leave them to get on with it between themselves.

[Sir David Gray]

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What's somebody's sexual preference got to do with it?

I'll end on this note by saying the lesser amount of anti-Protestant sentiment at Celtic games compared with the anti-Roman Catholic sentiment at Rangers games is only one part to this debate. The pro-IRA songs at Celtic games and the disgraceful behaviour of a sizeable number (I won't say the majority) of Celtic fans every single year on Remembrance Day make them the two cheeks of the same arse in my eyes.

Their song about Lee Rigby is one of the most deplorable things I've ever heard inside a Scottish football stadium.

Both clubs profit from the culture of sectarianism in both Scotland and Northern Ireland, just because you hear one club's fans shouting overtly sectarian abuse more than the other doesn't make one side any better than the other.

The pair of them are utter **** and a blight and a cancer within Scottish football and society in general.

[hibbysam]

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It isn't an excuse (all sectarian bigotry is totally unacceptable) but a reflection of the scale of the problem. I think the old 'both as bad as each other' line is lazy. Is our problem in this matter as bad as Hearts'? No way. It's merely an objective description of the reality.

It isn’t lazy at all. Nearly every Celtic fan I know has strong views on the matters. Whether they truly mean it or not is neither here nor there, they spout the full array of orange this and proddy that, IRA chants the lot. We don’t notice it at Celtic Park as, like I said previously, they don’t act like that with us as we’re their ‘little cousins’ to them, patronising pish. And there’s barely an atmosphere at Celtic park against the rest of the league other than rangers. The problem is rife with both sets of fans and it’s a blight on today’s society. I honestly couldn’t care less who wins the league out of them two, I certainly wouldn’t be celebrating either of their goals unless they help Hibs directly, although a large amount of hibs fans will actively celebrate Celtic goals. I would however pish myself if they never got 10 and it was lennon that was at the helm.

[hibbysam]

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I'll end on this note by saying the lesser amount of anti-Protestant sentiment at Celtic games compared with the anti-Roman Catholic sentiment at Rangers games is only one part to this debate. The pro-IRA songs at Celtic games and the disgraceful behaviour of a sizeable number (I won't say the majority) of Celtic fans every single year on Remembrance Day make them the two cheeks of the same arse in my eyes.

Their song about Lee Rigby is one of the most deplorable things I've ever heard inside a Scottish football stadium.

Both clubs profit from the culture of sectarianism in both Scotland and Northern Ireland, just because you hear one club's fans shouting overtly sectarian abuse more than the other doesn't make one side any better than the other.

The pair of them are utter **** and a blight and a cancer within Scottish football and society in general.

And that’s it in a nutshell.

[Iggy Pope]

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And that’s it in a nutshell.

If only.

[Andy74]

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It isn’t lazy at all. Nearly every Celtic fan I know has strong views on the matters. Whether they truly mean it or not is neither here nor there, they spout the full array of orange this and proddy that, IRA chants the lot. We don’t notice it at Celtic Park as, like I said previously, they don’t act like that with us as we’re their ‘little cousins’ to them, patronising pish. And there’s barely an atmosphere at Celtic park against the rest of the league other than rangers. The problem is rife with both sets of fans and it’s a blight on today’s society. I honestly couldn’t care less who wins the league out of them two, I certainly wouldn’t be celebrating either of their goals unless they help Hibs directly, although a large amount of hibs fans will actively celebrate Celtic goals. I would however pish myself if they never got 10 and it was lennon that was at the helm.

Not quite as easy as that though. The majority of stuff I hear from Celtic fans about the IRA is really about 1916 and something which is far more about fighting for freedom from centuries of oppression.

I work in Dublin and you get a bit more perspective out of the West of Scotland over what it’s all about. There are problem areas in the North still, of course, but the Ireland that Celtic fans would associate with has very little to do with sectarianism and religion.

Rangers fans I think are a far more sinister lot with real deep rooted hatred and bigotry.

[hibbysam]

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Not quite as easy as that though. The majority of stuff I hear from Celtic fans about the IRA is really about 1916 and something which is far more about fighting for freedom from centuries of oppression.

I work in Dublin and you get a bit more perspective out of the West of Scotland over what it’s all about. There are problem areas in the North still, of course, but the Ireland that Celtic fans would associate with has very little to do with sectarianism and religion.

Rangers fans I think are a far more sinister lot with real deep rooted hatred and bigotry.

Knowing a fair number of Celtic fans with fairly questionable thoughts on anything Protestant, who will quite happily sit and shout derogatory terms at anything Protestant, along with the usual proddy/orange *******s, then I think it’s fairly clear it’s sectarian and bigoted. I couldn’t care less either way, I’m neither and it’s water off a ducks back, but there is a huge chunk of both sides have horrendous hatred running through their veins due to religion.

[CentreLine]

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This of course is another Hun error.The original Fenians were both Church of Ireland and Catholic.Hence i am not bothered if i am called FenianI am bothered when i am cslled a Pape though.Just to finish as bad as the IRA might of been it is not someones religion and again the original IRA consisted of people of both faiths and none.Anyway as one poster said this argument has been done to death and i am proud the Hibbies are of all faithsand no faiths bound together by the love of our club.Be Happy top of the League!!!!

At risk of being accused of pedantry, originally Fenians were everyone except Church of Ireland Protestants, the only acceptable religion. All others were considered dissenters and subject to penal laws.

[Pretty Boy]

There was a really good Channel 4 documentary on a few years ago, probably mid to late 90s, called something like Faith, Football & Flutes. I think it's still on YouTube, it certainly was a couple of years ago. As the title suggests it explored the relationship between religion and football in Glasgow.

One of the scenes that always sticks in my mind was a family from Harthill who were in the Orange Order. Throughout the man came across as a fairly eloquent speaker and in this one particular scene he discusses transubstantiation and seems to have a grasp on the theology and historicity of it. You could be forgiven for thinking this was a pretty deep thinker. The next scene involves his wife sitting on a coach singing a song about blowing up a Chapel followed by him throwing some shapes in the lodge whilst a band sings a song about Bobby Sands being a 'filthy fenian ****er'.....

Throughout the show neither 'side' comes across particularly well. Even in the age before reality TV was a mainstream staple the extremes made better viewing. However the burning hatred seemed to come from primarily those decked out in Rangers tops and sashes. Above all the overriding emotion seemed one of fear of Catholics that manifested itself as hatred.

I think even a cursory knowledge of early modern and modern Scottish history and particularly social history would make it difficult to equate anti Catholic and anti Protestant sentiment to any great degree. The former shaped the country for over a century, even after the restoration of the Scottish Heirarchy and Catholic Emancipation it was evidenced in discrimination in areas such as education, employment and law enforcement amongst ohers. In the 1920s the CoS were producing literature about the 'menace of the Irish race'. In the 1930s the Scottish Protestant League and Protestant Action were winning significant numbers of seats on Glasgow and Edinburgh councils respectively. Devoid of that power as the economy and society had evolved it now manifests itself in casual sectarianism. Catholics are the victims in 63% of religiously motivated attacks, adjusted for population that means a Catholic is about 8 times likelier to be the victim of sectarian violence than those of other religions. Interestingly the vast majority of those attacks are not football related. This is still a societal problem and Rangers (and Celtic for balance) are a symptom of a wider cause.

Two cheeks? Not even close.

[Iggy Pope]

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At risk of being accused of pedantry, originally Fenians were everyone except Church of Ireland Protestants, the only acceptable religion. All others were considered dissenters and subject to penal laws.

Fenians were warriors. Also poets, marvellous lovers and fiercely loyal to their kin. Not quite everyone. You’ve got your modern history mixed up with the actual.

[CentreLine]

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Fenians were warriors. Also poets, marvellous lovers and fiercely loyal to their kin. Not quite everyone. You’ve got your modern history mixed up with the actual.

Touché Yes they absolutely were.or Fianna. In my defence, by the time the 19th century came along it was the name associated with groups of dissenters who rose against oppression, including The Irish Republican Brotherhood.
As I’ve mentioned on here before, despite there having been an uprising in Ireland every generation since the beginning of the 19th century, very few of the leaders were catholics.

[hibsbollah]

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Fenians were warriors. Also poets, marvellous lovers and fiercely loyal to their kin. Not quite everyone. You’ve got your modern history mixed up with the actual.

That’s a st Pats education right there

[huggie1875]

the reason i'd prefer to see Celtic run away with it is if were honest we won't keep up long hope i'm wrong but if they get far beyond rangers early enough they are more likely to go into melt down and maybe just maybe we can exploit that

[Pagan Hibernia]

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Fenians were warriors. Also poets, marvellous lovers and fiercely loyal to their kin.

you sure you’re not confusing Fenians with Hibees?

[we are hibs]

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It's not lazy it's the uncomfortable truth for some hibs fans.

If you asked 95% of other clubs supports who they hate more they would pick Rangers. Are they all "Celtic lovers" too? Or do they recognise that Rangers fans almost to a man are amongst the very worst in society. Brainless, uneducated, bigoted, racist ********s who think they can do as they please both in a football ground and outside because they're the "establishment club" and no surrender and aw that. I cant believe any hibs fan who was at Hampden, or the subsequent trip to ibrox a year later could say anything other than that.


Celtic fans are ********s. They're bigots. They stink. They think the league exists to pander to them and think anyone who dares take a point or 3 from them is apart of a conspiracy. People hate them too. But just not the levels that they do Rangers.

[Brightside]

Shouldnt all this religious pish be somewhere else.

[blackpoolhibs]

In my opinion, there is always a higher risk of violence from the huns than any other group of fans in Scotland.

Both are bigoted ****, but for me there is less chance of coming into a bit of trouble with the green bigots than the blue ones.

[Steve20]

I won't lose sleep over which one of them wins it, but I'd probably rather Rangers did. Celtic fans are already unbearable with their 10 in a row crap.

Having said that, I don't really THINK it will be close. Despite yesterday, the Rangers team is still a bit behind Celtic's in terms of quality and getting over the line. And they've a poorer manager too.

[Scorrie]

Ach we’ll win it anyway so end of argument!

[Pagan Hibernia]

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Shouldnt all this religious pish be somewhere else.

Aye, the 17th century

[Hibernia&Alba]

I didn't even know the remaining European ties are just one leg in a neutral country. When was this decided?