Hibernian FC Finances

[Since90+2]

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It was reported a few days ago only one club didn't have insurance.

I think it's now obvious which club that was.

Power has been on the Bounce assuring us Hibs have business interruption insurance.

It's not going to be easy but what I've seen coming from the club is calm and reassuring; the Leeann interview; the Nathan Ring interview; Hibees at home and others suggest we've had a disaster (recovery) plan and it's rolling out rather nicely at the moment.

You would expect the unmatched businesswoman that is Ann Budge would also have such insurance in place. Or maybe not.

The fallacy over at the wee ground must be getting worn out now.

[Power]

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It was reported a few days ago only one club didn't have insurance.

I think it's now obvious which club that was.

Power has been on the Bounce assuring us Hibs have business interruption insurance.

It's not going to be easy but what I've seen coming from the club is calm and reassuring; the Leeann interview; the Nathan Ring interview; Hibees at home and others suggest we've had a disaster (recovery) plan and it's rolling out rather nicely at the moment.

Very timely Jack - gives me a chance to do a cut and paste job ✅ Good thread, some great points and references back to the AGM.

Hibs are in a good position as can be - business interruption insurance or similar insurance is in place for most clubs, including ours, but that’s an unknown world in unprecedented times - dealings & conversations possibly a long drawn out process? Especially given the number one focus for the country.

Hibs have been very thorough and quick in the background to all of this so far (were preparing for a game on the Saturday this time last week!). Impressed how they’ve mobilised staff, put out a number of video, interviews and content updates to supporters (more to come) and moved forward with a robust business continuity plan.

Expect to hear more from them soon as this has all landed when Season Tickets were about to launch - our biggest income driver - See what next week brings and an update where we are.

(Wouldn’t worry about the filing - my short experience shows that is very slow at being uploaded despite returned correctly - the available records highlight time differences).

[WestCoastHibby]

I think I'll worry about finances closer to home through all this rather than "what ifs" and "whatabouteries" on here

[Keith_M]

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I was trying to get into the church hall to work otherwise I'm going to end up divorced or in jail by the time this is over🤣🤣

My missus has already threatened me with bodily harm a few times.


I like to think of it as foreplay..

[McD]

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Any club who immediately put it to cut 50pct of all staff costs or start offering redundancies was living on the edge

Other clubs might go the same way but I'm really surprised hearts have moved so quickly

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they haven’t even missed a home game yet have they?

it smells very fishy

[where'stheslope]

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they haven’t even missed a home game yet have they?

it smells very fishy

How many people are going to be paid off as their work cannot exist allowing people to stay home on full pay?
What I think Budgie has done is in a way admirable, her team cannot play games or train, and although they are contracted to be paid in full, its a measure to safe guard their club as a whole.
I don't think they will be the only club going down this route, others will follow sooner rather than later.

[Sammy7nil]

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How many people are going to be paid off as their work cannot exist allowing people to stay home on full pay?
What I think Budgie has done is in a way admirable, her team cannot play games or train, and although they are contracted to be paid in full, its a measure to safe guard their club as a whole.
I don't think they will be the only club going down this route, others will follow sooner rather than later.

I don't disagree but it seems like an ultimatum rather than a negotiation with players. Also it is like a very quick cliff edge fall off with no time for players and staff to assess and plan for the consequences. Most people live to their income and a 50% drop for anyone will have a huge impact.

Surely they could have waited a couple of weeks and had a proper conversation with staff, could even have asked the players to pay all support and admin staff salaries.

I agree others will follow but I just hope they give staff time and have open and honest conversation around why this has to happen now.

Look at what happened to Berra there is no loyalty in football clubs empty players like sour milk.

[Brooster]

I'm sure I read on the bbc website that clubs are contractually obliged to refund single tickets but not season tickets - in full or partially. I've got 4 season tickets and wouldn't want any form of refund.

[Eyrie]

We'd be entitled to our money back if the season is voided (as would sponsors, TV companies etc) because that would mean that season 19/20 never happened.

But if the season is concluded in any manner (including the current standings becoming final), then the season has taken place and we don't get a penny.

[CentreLine]

On the subject of “Business Interruption Insurance” I was listening to some expert on Radio Scotland yesterday who was saying that insurance companies are not going to pay out on this. His opinion was that when companies check their policy they will find that they are insured for “any known virus” As this is a new virus the insurers will not pay out.
He did say that some larger companies may have paid extra to have the word “known” removed but for most it would be a no show from insurers.

Maybe an insurance expert can come along and tell us what the situation might be but it stuck me that it sounded like a very unfair get out for insurers if it was true.

[Since452]

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On the subject of “Business Interruption Insurance” I was listening to some expert on Radio Scotland yesterday who was saying that insurance companies are not going to pay out on this. His opinion was that when companies check their policy they will find that they are insured for “any known virus” As this is a new virus the insurers will not pay out.
He did say that some larger companies may have paid extra to have the word “known” removed but for most it would be a no show from insurers.

Maybe an insurance expert can come along and tell us what the situation might be but it stuck me that it sounded like a very unfair get out for insurers if it was true.

Absolutely pathetic if that's that's case

[tamig]

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I'm sure I read on the bbc website that clubs are contractually obliged to refund single tickets but not season tickets - in full or partially. I've got 4 season tickets and wouldn't want any form of refund.

In the current climate I’d imagine most of us would feel the same. But it’s difficult to say how many might be depending on some kind of refund.

[CockneyRebel]

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On the subject of “Business Interruption Insurance” I was listening to some expert on Radio Scotland yesterday who was saying that insurance companies are not going to pay out on this. His opinion was that when companies check their policy they will find that they are insured for “any known virus” As this is a new virus the insurers will not pay out.
He did say that some larger companies may have paid extra to have the word “known” removed but for most it would be a no show from insurers.

Maybe an insurance expert can come along and tell us what the situation might be but it stuck me that it sounded like a very unfair get out for insurers if it was true.

Not really unfair if that is a policy condition - read before you sign. Insurers are infamous for offering a lot less than you thought you were getting but it is somebody's job to check the small print.

[tamig]

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On the subject of “Business Interruption Insurance” I was listening to some expert on Radio Scotland yesterday who was saying that insurance companies are not going to pay out on this. His opinion was that when companies check their policy they will find that they are insured for “any known virus” As this is a new virus the insurers will not pay out.
He did say that some larger companies may have paid extra to have the word “known” removed but for most it would be a no show from insurers.

Maybe an insurance expert can come along and tell us what the situation might be but it stuck me that it sounded like a very unfair get out for insurers if it was true.

I was reading up about that insurance at the weekend and think that’s exactly the case.

[CentreLine]

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Not really unfair if that is a policy condition - read before you sign. Insurers are infamous for offering a lot less than you thought you were getting but it is somebody's job to check the small print.

It may of course not be accurate but it is what the “expert” was saying. I personally thought it was unfair but you are right, if that’s what the small print says .....

[Iggy Pope]

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On the subject of “Business Interruption Insurance” I was listening to some expert on Radio Scotland yesterday who was saying that insurance companies are not going to pay out on this. His opinion was that when companies check their policy they will find that they are insured for “any known virus” As this is a new virus the insurers will not pay out.
He did say that some larger companies may have paid extra to have the word “known” removed but for most it would be a no show from insurers.

Maybe an insurance expert can come along and tell us what the situation might be but it stuck me that it sounded like a very unfair get out for insurers if it was true.

Insurance companies will shortly need customers like the banks did in 2008 or so.

[Iggy Pope]

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Not really unfair if that is a policy condition - read before you sign. Insurers are infamous for offering a lot less than you thought you were getting but it is somebody's job to check the small print.

Might also be unfair if their premises were targeted whilst unoccupied in these quiet conditions, yet infamous times. Imagine working for those ****s.

[Jones28]

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You would expect the unmatched businesswoman that is Ann Budge would also have such insurance in place. Or maybe not.

The fallacy over at the wee ground must be getting worn out now.

Unless it was rangers, with their liabilities and expenses it would cost them a fortune.

[CentreLine]

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Might also be unfair if their premises were targeted whilst unoccupied in these quiet conditions, yet infamous times. Imagine working for those ****s.

That would be very unfair and totally unacceptable.

[JimBHibees]

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On the subject of “Business Interruption Insurance” I was listening to some expert on Radio Scotland yesterday who was saying that insurance companies are not going to pay out on this. His opinion was that when companies check their policy they will find that they are insured for “any known virus” As this is a new virus the insurers will not pay out.
He did say that some larger companies may have paid extra to have the word “known” removed but for most it would be a no show from insurers.

Maybe an insurance expert can come along and tell us what the situation might be but it stuck me that it sounded like a very unfair get out for insurers if it was true.

Shameful I thought the bold Boris was calling out the insurance companies to pay out on this. He needs to be called out immediately

[Juniper Greens]

Every policy is different. It being declared both a "notifiable disease" and also a "pandemic" will help, as these are phrases that are often used. The comment around "new diseases" someone mentioned isn't something I've seen before, I'd be more wary of exclusions around "contagious diseases". Every additional level of cover will have cost more in premiums, so I suspect it'll be a case of some can claim and some can't, the ones who can are the ones who had the proper insurance.
Just calling out on insurance companies to pay would also be irresponsible, as in that scenario (where they are paying when they shouldn't have been) may well put some of them to the wall, and possibly end up in the companies who had the correct insurance, not being paid what they are due

[007]

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You would expect the unmatched businesswoman that is Ann Budge would also have such insurance in place. Or maybe not.

The fallacy over at the wee ground must be getting worn out now.

She sent the signed insurance forms to Daplast and ordered 7000 seats from Legal & General.

[Jack]

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On the subject of “Business Interruption Insurance” I was listening to some expert on Radio Scotland yesterday who was saying that insurance companies are not going to pay out on this. His opinion was that when companies check their policy they will find that they are insured for “any known virus” As this is a new virus the insurers will not pay out.
He did say that some larger companies may have paid extra to have the word “known” removed but for most it would be a no show from insurers.

Maybe an insurance expert can come along and tell us what the situation might be but it stuck me that it sounded like a very unfair get out for insurers if it was true.

I'm no expert but Coronavirus and whatever the plural is aren't unknown.

... and there is the first failure for the insurance companies argument in a court case I'd imagine. Although I suspect it would take a very expensive and drawn out court case to decide that I am right lol

[kaimendhibs]

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On the subject of “Business Interruption Insurance” I was listening to some expert on Radio Scotland yesterday who was saying that insurance companies are not going to pay out on this. His opinion was that when companies check their policy they will find that they are insured for “any known virus” As this is a new virus the insurers will not pay out.
He did say that some larger companies may have paid extra to have the word “known” removed but for most it would be a no show from insurers.

Maybe an insurance expert can come along and tell us what the situation might be but it stuck me that it sounded like a very unfair get out for insurers if it was true.

Mibbe im daft but the coronavirus has been around a while so it is known.
Its the Covid-19 part that is new

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[cocteautwin]

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From the AGM - the accounts have been filed, I think - certainly they've been issued to shareholders and widely reported (they're on the official site, for example - at least a summary is).

Our wage bill was within the 60% wages to turnover recommendation (think we were at 59%, from memory) - higher than previous years but within the healthy limit.

No charges are held over the club unless we borrow, which we haven't.

There's a couple of mistakes in your statements above:

- The accounts haven't been filed yet - they are to be filed by 31 March at the latest. The later than normal filing struck me as a little unusual but it's not a major concern. I presume there's nothing to hide in the accounts.

- There are two charges held over the assets of the club (one being over the training ground and one being over the stadium itself). These were registered on 16 July and 12 August and held by Bydand Sports LLC (RG's Holding Company) over the club:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...filing-history

I haven't seen these charges over HFC's assets discussed at all on this board. The major concern is whether anyone has a charge over the assets of Bydand Sports LLC which in effect means they are holding a position over the club. It's not possible to see if there are any charges over Bydand as it's a Delaware LLC and as such almost impossible to find out any information about. Considering the turmoil in the financial markets at the moment, the biggest risk to Hibs appears to be these charges. I don't suppose we would ever find out if there are any further charges up the chain until any rights are exercised but I do think it's a risk that needs to be discussed.

[Phil MaGlass]

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We'd be entitled to our money back if the season is voided (as would sponsors, TV companies etc) because that would mean that season 19/20 never happened.

But if the season is concluded in any manner (including the current standings becoming final), then the season has taken place and we don't get a penny.

You might be entitled to it, but, it does not mean you would get it, TUI travel company are refusing refunding/compensating travelers holidays in Holland as they will go bankrupt.

[Since90+2]

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I'm no expert but Coronavirus and whatever the plural is aren't unknown.

... and there is the first failure for the insurance companies argument in a court case I'd imagine. Although I suspect it would take a very expensive and drawn out court case to decide that I am right lol

Was going to say exactly that. Coronaviruses are not unknown , only this strain , so I suppose it's how you want to look at it and exactly how it's worded.

[jingler1954]

At the AGM it was stated that we had £5.5 million cash in the bank I would hope this would see us through to what would have been the end of the season. Can someone who does pols put one up regarding season tickets for next season ie who has budgeted for who has one this year but wont afford one next year. Any suggestions to get a feel for sales next year. Thank you in anticipation.

[green day]

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I haven't seen these charges over HFC's assets discussed at all on this board. I don't suppose we would ever find out if there are any further charges up the chain until any rights are exercised but I do think it's a risk that needs to be discussed.

Discussed extensively at the time of RG takeover - but as you point out, times have changed considerably since then.

[matty_f]

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There's a couple of mistakes in your statements above:

- The accounts haven't been filed yet - they are to be filed by 31 March at the latest. The later than normal filing struck me as a little unusual but it's not a major concern. I presume there's nothing to hide in the accounts.

- There are two charges held over the assets of the club (one being over the training ground and one being over the stadium itself). These were registered on 16 July and 12 August and held by Bydand Sports LLC (RG's Holding Company) over the club:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...filing-history

I haven't seen these charges over HFC's assets discussed at all on this board. The major concern is whether anyone has a charge over the assets of Bydand Sports LLC which in effect means they are holding a position over the club. It's not possible to see if there are any charges over Bydand as it's a Delaware LLC and as such almost impossible to find out any information about. Considering the turmoil in the financial markets at the moment, the biggest risk to Hibs appears to be these charges. I don't suppose we would ever find out if there are any further charges up the chain until any rights are exercised but I do think it's a risk that needs to be discussed.

Power has confirmed above that they have been filed.

My understanding is that while there is a standing charge held, it is irrelevant unless money is borrowed from Bydand - we haven't borrowed anything therefore it's not active.

The charge is in place to give us the option of borrowing if we need it.