Hamas attack on Israel

[Hibspur]

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Good to read that the crowd gave it to the prick.

Was going to mention Manson last week but I suppose that's for a whole new thread and I don't want to deflect away from Starmer and co's selective amnesia when it comes to cancelling bands.

Not really my bag but one of my sons is 'old-school' in his music tastes and had me watching the full highlights on Youtube late last night. I hadn't been aware of any controversy around Disturbed until I saw it mentioned on this thread. Think the lead singer was wearing a star of David but I didn't pick up on any animosity from the crowd - although I wasn't looking for it and it was maybe edited out. They seemed to go down well and it's easy to forget that a hefty proportion of people don't care about these sort of issues. Was it not Sharon Osbourne who sparked Kneecap's US visa ban after Coachella? Maybe she has an agenda.

On a lighter note, I thought Ozzy did better than I'd have imagined he could in his condition:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg565mk8jxo

[MKHIBEE]

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Some of the videos on social media are horrific, kids shot while they played on their bikes in the streets, so sad.

Be interesting to see how the IDF defend their actions after that. Booby trapped bikes? Hamas messengers? Didn’t happen?

[MKHIBEE]

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Some of the videos on social media are horrific, kids shot while they played on their bikes in the streets, so sad.

Be interesting to see how the IDF defend their actions after that. Booby trapped bikes? Hamas messengers? Didn’t happen?

[Hibspur]

Something I find hard to comprehend is why no other Arab state seems remotely interested in supporting Palestinians displaced by the war with Israel. Hamas are Iran's proxies in Gaza but Iran (a staunch ally of Israel pre-1979) seems to have zero affinity for the Palestinian cause. Neighbouring Egypt has shown no appetite for housing Palestinian refugees, in fact they seem downright hostile at the prospect. Lebanon? Saudi? What's the deal? Is it an ideological thing (particularly the Muslim brotherhood ideology of Hamas)?. Are they as opposed to a Palestinian state as Israel?

When you look at the way Ukrainian refugees have been welcomed by other countries, it's striking how disinterested other Arab states appear to be here.

[Ozyhibby]

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Something I find hard to comprehend is why no other Arab state seems remotely interested in supporting Palestinians displaced by the war with Israel. Hamas are Iran's proxies in Gaza but Iran (a staunch ally of Israel pre-1979) seems to have zero affinity for the Palestinian cause. Neighbouring Egypt has shown no appetite for housing Palestinian refugees, in fact they seem downright hostile at the prospect. Lebanon? Saudi? What's the deal? Is it an ideological thing (particularly the Muslim brotherhood ideology of Hamas)?. Are they as opposed to a Palestinian state as Israel?

When you look at the way Ukrainian refugees have been welcomed by other countries, it's striking how disinterested other Arab states appear to be here.

Accepting refugees is seen as supporting the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the West Bank. Is that what you support? The clearing out of all the Palestinians and scatter them across the world? How many should we take here in the UK?


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[Kato]

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Accepting refugees is seen as supporting the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the West Bank. Is that what you support? The clearing out of all the Palestinians and scatter them across the world? How many should we take here in the UK?


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Jordan already has 6 million Palestinian refugees.


Maybe, given the promises from Israels leaders to "Amalek" them they're are scared the IDF will hunt them down in their countries.













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[Hibspur]

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Accepting refugees is seen as supporting the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the West Bank. Is that what you support? The clearing out of all the Palestinians and scatter them across the world? How many should we take here in the UK?


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Quite the leap to suggest that's what I 'support'

Is refusing to help resettle them and just leaving them to their fate somehow the more honourable option?

[Kato]

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Quite the leap to suggest that's what I 'support'

Is refusing to help resettle them and just leaving them to their fate somehow the more honourable option?

Have you ever considered the politicians in that area are more acquainted with the situation than you?



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[Hibspur]

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Have you ever considered the politicians in that area are more acquainted with the situation than you?



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Well, um, that's kind of the reason I'm asking the question. I'd like to hear an informed answer.

[Kato]

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Well, um, that's kind of the reason I'm asking the question. I'd like to hear an informed answer.

Don't you have Google?











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[MKHIBEE]

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Quite the leap to suggest that's what I 'support'

Is refusing to help resettle them and just leaving them to their fate somehow the more honourable option?

It’s an even bigger leap to suggest that “Is that what you support?” is the same as suggesting that’s what you “ support”. You were asked a question, not accused of anything.

[Kato]

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Well, um, that's kind of the reason I'm asking the question. I'd like to hear an informed answer.

...I doubt there's any middle east politicians on here...











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[He's here!]

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Accepting refugees is seen as supporting the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the West Bank. Is that what you support? The clearing out of all the Palestinians and scatter them across the world? How many should we take here in the UK?


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https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/21/why-arab-states-wont-support-palestinians-qa-00142277

That's not the reason at all.

Egypt pretty much despises the Palestinians and wants nothing to do with taking them in. The other states also have a very chequered history with them and most hate Hamas. Bottom line, none of them have any desire to see Palestinian statehood. It's not remotely in their interests.

Good article on this I've posted a link to above, featuring an interview with someone who knows that part of the world inside out.

I worked in Cairo prior to the Arab spring so I do attempt to keep tabs on things, but you won't find a more mixed-up/mistrustful region than the Middle East. Bampot region would be more accurate. There will never be peace there and blaming Israel for all its ills is off the mark.

[Ozyhibby]

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https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/21/why-arab-states-wont-support-palestinians-qa-00142277

That's not the reason at all.

Egypt pretty much despises the Palestinians and wants nothing to do with taking them in. The other states also have a very chequered history with them and most hate Hamas. Bottom line, none of them have any desire to see Palestinian statehood. It's not remotely in their interests.

Good article on this I've posted a link to above, featuring an interview with someone who knows that part of the world inside out.

I worked in Cairo prior to the Arab spring so I do attempt to keep tabs on things, but you won't find a more mixed-up/mistrustful region than the Middle East. Bampot region would be more accurate. There will never be peace there and blaming Israel for all its ills is off the mark.

They are the ones commuting the genocide though so they are big players. Everyone else may not like the Palestinians as you say but they are not trying to kill them either.


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[Kato]

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https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/21/why-arab-states-wont-support-palestinians-qa-00142277

That's not the reason at all.

Egypt pretty much despises the Palestinians and wants nothing to do with taking them in. The other states also have a very chequered history with them and most hate Hamas. Bottom line, none of them have any desire to see Palestinian statehood. It's not remotely in their interests.

Good article on this I've posted a link to above, featuring an interview with someone who knows that part of the world inside out.

I worked in Cairo prior to the Arab spring so I do attempt to keep tabs on things, but you won't find a more mixed-up/mistrustful region than the Middle East. Bampot region would be more accurate. There will never be peace there and blaming Israel for all its ills is off the mark.

It suffers, and always has, from being a crucial geopolitical area. Ottoman empire breaks up, Britain steps in, British Empire breaks up, US/Soviets step-in.

The populace are just unlucky pawns.























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[Ozyhibby]

Surely Starmer will want the Spectator banned now?


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[Kato]

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Surely Starmer will want the Spectator banned now?


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If you take what he is saying and what it means in reality, he wants to murder 210,000 people. Including Lulu and Rod Stewart.


















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[Jones28]

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Quite the leap to suggest that's what I 'support'

Is refusing to help resettle them and just leaving them to their fate somehow the more honourable option?

Just out of sheer morbid curiosity, would you mind spelling out exactly what it is you support?

[JimBHibees]

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If you take what he is saying and what it means in reality, he wants to murder 210,000 people. Including Lulu and Rod Stewart.

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😄

[Pretty Boy]

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Surely Starmer will want the Spectator banned now?


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Rod Liddle wrote a piece for the Guardian many, many years ago asking if viewing child pornography should be a crime. It was in the wake of the Pete Townshend book writing saga and I remember reading it multiple times trying to figure out where the satire or context was but there was none.

His argument was a genuine one that just because someone is attracted to children and wants to view pornographic images of them doesn't mean they will actually abuse children themselves and arguing otherwise was just hysteria. He never addressed quite how pornographic images of children could be made without actual abuse taking place.

I think he's just a bit simple tbh.

[He's here!]

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They are the ones commuting the genocide though so they are big players. Everyone else may not like the Palestinians as you say but they are not trying to kill them either.


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I think it's important to acknowledge though that the reason other Arab states don't make any effort to help the Palestinians isn't down to some sort of moral stance/solidarity. Most will happily see Hamas eradicated at whatever cost.

Whether we like it or not Israel is an indispensable strategic ally to the West, a crucial counterweight to Iranian influence. No Western government will sever that relationship.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel...their%20behalf.

Yet, as far as I'm aware nothing has happened.

I also believe other Arab states support a Palestinian state, so taking Palestinians in would dilute the case.

[JimBHibees]

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I think it's important to acknowledge though that the reason other Arab states don't make any effort to help the Palestinians isn't down to some sort of moral stance/solidarity. Most will happily see Hamas eradicated at whatever cost.

Whether we like it or not Israel is an indispensable strategic ally to the West, a crucial counterweight to Iranian influence. No Western government will sever that relationship.

Well they should sever that relationship with genocidal war criminals

[Bostonhibby]

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If you take what he is saying and what it means in reality, he wants to murder 210,000 people. Including Lulu and Rod Stewart.


















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Aw naw, not Lulu.............

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[Hibspur]

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https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/21/why-arab-states-wont-support-palestinians-qa-00142277

That's not the reason at all.

Egypt pretty much despises the Palestinians and wants nothing to do with taking them in. The other states also have a very chequered history with them and most hate Hamas. Bottom line, none of them have any desire to see Palestinian statehood. It's not remotely in their interests.

Good article on this I've posted a link to above, featuring an interview with someone who knows that part of the world inside out.

I worked in Cairo prior to the Arab spring so I do attempt to keep tabs on things, but you won't find a more mixed-up/mistrustful region than the Middle East. Bampot region would be more accurate. There will never be peace there and blaming Israel for all its ills is off the mark.

That is a really informative and interesting article. Comes as close as anything I've read to joining the dots about a dynamic I imagine a lot of people don't fully understand.

Even the citizens of Gaza seem to hate Hamas:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvmmr154v2o

[Kato]

Is there anything to like about Hamas? Not that I can see.

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[Scorrie]

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Is there anything to like about Hamas? Not that I can see.

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No not much. But in dealing with them, the Israel response has been wholly disproportionate. Surely with the Mossad’s much vaunted skills, they could have acted with far greater accuracy than what seems to indiscriminate killing?

[He's here!]

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https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel...their%20behalf.

Yet, as far as I'm aware nothing has happened.

I also believe other Arab states support a Palestinian state, so taking Palestinians in would dilute the case.

As I said yesterday, to suggest that the reason Arab states haven't lifted a finger to help Palestinians in this conflict is because of some noble solidarity around not weakening their claim to statehood is misguided. There's no grand alliance of sympathy there and even the brief opening of the Rafah crossing into Egypt was Qatar/US negotiated.

Hamas sabotaged the Israel/Saudi peace talks with their October 7th attack. There was a genuine prospect of a deal which would have seen a normalisation of Saudi relations with Israel and concessions to a form of Palestinian self-governance. This would have come at the expense of Hamas rule in Gaza, however, hence the chaos which ensued.

[Moulin Yarns]

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As I said yesterday, to suggest that the reason Arab states haven't lifted a finger to help Palestinians in this conflict is because of some noble solidarity around not weakening their claim to statehood is misguided. There's no grand alliance of sympathy there and even the brief opening of the Rafah crossing into Egypt was Qatar/US negotiated.

Hamas sabotaged the Israel/Saudi peace talks with their October 7th attack. There was a genuine prospect of a deal which would have seen a normalisation of Saudi relations with Israel and concessions to a form of Palestinian self-governance. This would have come at the expense of Hamas rule in Gaza, however, hence the chaos which ensued.

I might be mistaken but were Hamas not democratically elected in Gaza?

[Ozyhibby]

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I might be mistaken but were Hamas not democratically elected in Gaza?

I’m 2006 with a slim margin and suspect ballots. It was also on the back of a huge corruption scandal with the PA. Been no elections since.


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