Hamas attack on Israel

[cabbageandribs1875]

138 Palestinians killed the previous 24 hours, slaughtered

[Pretty Boy]

Israel has already shown in this war that it can take out high ranking officials with relatively little collateral damage with the pager attack in Lebanon. I had a macabre and grudging respect for the ingenuity of that.

What it is doing in Gaza is a choice. As is the continuing encroachment into the West Bank and the petty bullying and sporadic extreme violence that comes with that.

There is no secret about it. Netanyahu has stood and said what he wants to do publicly. It's well documented that he has long held a policy of emboldening and even funding Hamas indirectly to reach a point where he could attempt to justify this. It's up to each individual if they want to continue to refuse to see and hear it.

[jamie_1875]

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Do you really struggle to see it?

When rangers were liquidated I was desperate for Rangers to die. I couldn’t wait and said as much over and over again. I wasn’t wanting their players, manager, staff and supporters dead though.

There’s plenty ambiguity. It just doesn’t suit your argument to admit that.

There is footage of him saying "death to every single IDF soldier out there" that's not ambiguous is it?

[He's here!]

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Let's talk about proportionality!

How many Israeli were killed and captured on October 7th?

How many Palestinians have been killed or captured since?


You want to talk about proportional??

Now justify what your precious Israel has done to Palestine!

By way, loving your Guerilla tactics of dropping a comment then disappearing into the ether. Very Hamas of you.

Or maybe rather than 'disappearing' some people simply have more to do of an evening than hang around this forum for four hours waiting for you to have your say 😉

[J-C]

If you're taking out military establishments fine, but when that turns into hospitals, schools and living areas where no military is, then that's genocide.

[Stevie Reid]

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Israel has already shown in this war that it can take out high ranking officials with relatively little collateral damage with the pager attack in Lebanon. I had a macabre and grudging respect for the ingenuity of that.

What it is doing in Gaza is a choice. As is the continuing encroachment into the West Bank and the petty bullying and sporadic extreme violence that comes with that.

There is no secret about it. Netanyahu has stood and said what he wants to do publicly. It's well documented that he has long held a policy of emboldening and even funding Hamas indirectly to reach a point where he could attempt to justify this. It's up to each individual if they want to continue to refuse to see and hear it.

Flatly denying an obvious reality is another modern phenomenon, which has been comfortably passed on from the most nefarious world leaders, to their supporters and defenders.

[Smartie]

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There is footage of him saying "death to every single IDF soldier out there" that's not ambiguous is it?

Does footage that unambiguous REALLY exist?

And even if it did, are we not at the stage where that desire - extreme and controversial as it is - might not be seen as all that horrendous, not just by nut jobs but by an increasing number of reasonable people?

The IDF, rather than being viewed as a brave defensive force who keep the Israeli people safe are increasingly being viewed as a death squad who carry out ethnic cleansing and war crimes using a level of force disproportionate to the threat. Under those circumstances such a chant, whether employing a touch of hyperbole or not mightn’t appear as horrific or extreme to some as to others.

They might not be there yet but the IDF are losing their legitimacy in the eyes of many, as such certain chants increasingly become fair game.

[jamie_1875]

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Or maybe rather than 'disappearing' some people simply have more to do of an evening than hang around this forum for four hours waiting for you to have your say 😉

I got a row from him for not replying in like 48 minutes or something. 😂

[jamie_1875]

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Does footage that unambiguous REALLY exist?

And even if it did, are we not at the stage where that desire - extreme and controversial as it is - might not be seen as all that horrendous, not just by nut jobs but by an increasing number of reasonable people?

The IDF, rather than being viewed as a brave defensive force who keep the Israeli people safe are increasingly being viewed as a death squad who carry out ethnic cleansing and war crimes using a level of force disproportionate to the threat. Under those circumstances such a chant, whether employing a touch of hyperbole or not mightn’t appear as horrific or extreme to some as to others.

They might not be there yet but the IDF are losing their legitimacy in the eyes of many, as such certain chants increasingly become fair game.

https://x.com/HeidiBachram/status/1940376285165019295?t=U9TRBJ1G-mWDJUVW_zw20A&s=19


"Death to every single IDF soldier out there"

All those saying that's not what he meant maybe want to reconsider?

Are you saying you don't find it horrendous to round up all IDF soldiers both woman and men and murder them? That's not a horrendous suggestion in your eyes, or have I misunderstood you? Seeing as all Israelis join the IDF it's also suggesting death to all Israelis? Is this really were you are?

[Kato]

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https://x.com/HeidiBachram/status/1940376285165019295?t=U9TRBJ1G-mWDJUVW_zw20A&s=19


"Death to every single IDF soldier out there"

All those saying that's not what he meant maybe want to reconsider?

Are you saying you don't find it horrendous to round up all IDF soldiers both woman and men and murder them? That's not a horrendous suggestion in your eyes, or have I misunderstood you? Seeing as all Israelis join the IDF it's also suggesting death to all Israelis? Is this really were you are?

Why are you willing to hype up what some pop group said but so willing to shrug your shoulders when the leader of Israel calls for a biblical style genocide?

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[MKHIBEE]

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https://x.com/HeidiBachram/status/1940376285165019295?t=U9TRBJ1G-mWDJUVW_zw20A&s=19


"Death to every single IDF soldier out there"

All those saying that's not what he meant maybe want to reconsider?

Are you saying you don't find it horrendous to round up all IDF soldiers both woman and men and murder them? That's not a horrendous suggestion in your eyes, or have I misunderstood you? Seeing as all Israelis join the IDF it's also suggesting death to all Israelis? Is this really were you are?

Where has anyone suggested rounding up all IDF soldiers and murdering them?
Apart from you that is.

[He's here!]

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Israel has already shown in this war that it can take out high ranking officials with relatively little collateral damage with the pager attack in Lebanon. I had a macabre and grudging respect for the ingenuity of that.

What it is doing in Gaza is a choice. As is the continuing encroachment into the West Bank and the petty bullying and sporadic extreme violence that comes with that.

There is no secret about it. Netanyahu has stood and said what he wants to do publicly. It's well documented that he has long held a policy of emboldening and even funding Hamas indirectly to reach a point where he could attempt to justify this. It's up to each individual if they want to continue to refuse to see and hear it.

The pager attack was ingenious no question. Presumably Hezbollah/Hamas have gone back to using cell phones since then.

[jamie_1875]

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Where has anyone suggested rounding up all IDF soldiers and murdering them?
Apart from you that is.

So how would you ensure "death to every single IDF soldier out there"?

[jamie_1875]

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Why are you willing to hype up what some pop group said but so willing to shrug your shoulders when the leader of Israel calls for a biblical style genocide?

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I said I thought it was considerably worse though? That's not shrugging my shoulders when you say it's worse, it's a pretty definite opinion.

It's possible to condemn Israel for their excessive force and also those calling for death to every single IDF soldier out there, in fact I would like to think most reasonable people would condem both.

The point of my post was those saying no he never meant to say death to actual soldiers may want to reconsider that, he obviously did.

[Kato]

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I said it thought it was considerably worse though? That's not shrugging my shoulders when you say it's worse, it's a pretty definite opinion.

It's possible to condemn Israel for their excessive force and also those calling for death to every single IDF soldier out there, in fact I would like to think most reasonable people would condem both.

The point of my post was those saying no he never meant to say death to actual soldiers may want to reconsider that, he obviously did.

Yes. But your hyping, twisting and contorting what some pop group said way beyond the intent, of you look at their subsequent statement.

I haven't seen any mention of the frightening sectarian intent of those in power since you squeezed it aside.

If you look the men of violence in that area its scary. Those with most power are very, very scary. Messianic Americans shoving their oar in makes it extremely scary.

You don't have to contort their rhetoric to come to a conclusion about the violence they intend.

The pop group chants seem to be taking up a lot of your attention. Are you more outraged by them than what is happening in real life?

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[jamie_1875]

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Yes. But your hyping, twisting and contorting what some pop group said way beyond the intent, of you look at their subsequent statement.

I haven't seen any mention of the frightening sectarian intent of those in power since you squeezed it aside.

If you look the men of violence in that area its scary. Those with most power are very, very scary. Messianic Americans shoving their oar in makes it extremely scary.

You don't have to contort their rhetoric to come to a conclusion about the violence they intend.

The pop group chants seem to be taking up a lot of your attention. Are you more outraged by them than what is happening in real life?

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No, but I think it's important to point out people are really quick to say oh that's not what he meant while other saying yes that is what he meant are told they are wrong. Well they were right.

[Kato]

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No, but I think it's important to point out people are really quick to say oh that's not what he meant while other saying yes that is what he meant are told they are wrong. Well they were right.

Ok. That seems more important to you than anything. I get it.

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[MKHIBEE]

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So how would you ensure "death to every single IDF soldier out there"?

It’s a war, combatants don’t normally get “ rounded up and murdered” they are killed in battle.Legally. Although there are instances where this may not be the case

[AgentDaleCooper]

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Without wishing to incur your wrath again, in what way would you say Israel should have fought this war proportionally? A few rockets fired into Gaza in response to October 7th would hardly have landed well within the Israeli population.

The eye-for-an-eye version would, I guess, have been to round up around 1500 people from Gaza (mostly civilians but a few Hamas fighters too), murder the vast majority of them (with some sexual assault thrown in) and keep the rest hostage. Would we have thought that a proportionate response?

So, is what's actually happened way beyond proportionate? We've seen from what they achieved in Iran over a short space of time just what a clinical fighting force the Israelis can be. They basically left Iran reeling with the precision of their missile strikes while their pilots quickly took over the skies. Civilian casualties were relatively minimal. Such a contrast to the mass casualties in Gaza. Why is that? Sure, there are no clear, defined sites for Israel to hit in Gaza (like the nuclear plants in Iran) but a lot of the civilian deaths come down to the way Hamas operate. For example, the operative mentioned in the story you've linked to must have been aware he'd be on Israeli intelligence's acute radar yet he apparently chose to sit among citizens in a cafe, putting them all at risk. I'm not suggesting that bombing the cafe was Israel's only option, but if their mission is to eradicate Hamas how do you do so proportionally when their tunnel network runs under civilian infrastructure and their operatives base themselves within the civilian population?

While I imagine Netanyahu's long-term plans for Gaza go well beyond wiping out Hamas (is the Trump 'riviera' plan perhaps more than a pipe dream?) I'm just not convinced this war could have been fought without a very high number of civilian deaths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas

what's going on just now is exactly what Netanyahu has wanted for a very long time. If Hamas is erased but Gaza persists, he or someone like him will support the creation of a new Hamas, wait a couple of decades, then we'll be back here again.

also - how do you feel about Palestinians being shot at by the IDF as they queue for food that will protect them from starvation?

[He's here!]

Hamas says it delivered 'positive response' on Gaza ceasefire plan - BBC News https://share.google/wCbkapGVL87e9Gq8R

Hamas says it's ready to enter talks over US-brokered ceasefire.

[He's here!]

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That's like saying Iwo Jima wasn't part of WW2 because Dunkirk wasn't as bad.

This has been going on for as long as I've been alive in one way or another.

There have been periods when Arabs and Israelites have lived in peace together but that aspect seems beyond the outlook of all parties just now.

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I don't disagree. The Arab-Israeli conflict is something that will endure long after we're all gone. I simply meant that of all the escalations I can recall this one seems especially relentless.

[jamie_1875]

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Ok. That seems more important to you than anything. I get it.

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I mean my first word was "no" but you believe what you want. I get it.

[jamie_1875]

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It’s a war, combatants don’t normally get “ rounded up and murdered” they are killed in battle.Legally. Although there are instances where this may not be the case

So he was calling for Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran to kill them in battle. Ok that's fine then.

[Kato]

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I don't disagree. The Arab-Israeli conflict is something that will endure long after we're all gone. I simply meant that of all the escalations I can recall this one seems especially relentless.

Pay attention.

It'll endure until the Kingdom of God's Chosen People encompasses all the land their holy book tells them they are entitled to. Maybe give the Babylonians a revenge kicking too.

Then Jesus will come back, defeat The Beast and we'll have a battle at Armageddon then the "The Rapture".

Sounds like superstitious claptrap eh, but this is the language of those in power.

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[Kato]

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I mean my first word was "no" but you believe what you want. I get it.

I believe what I patently see.

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[MKHIBEE]

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So he was calling for Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran to kill them in battle. Ok that's fine then.

You obviously are happy with the role the IDF are playing in this genocide. Others aren’t.

[jamie_1875]

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I believe what I patently see.

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Great, so when you see him saying "death to every single IDF soldier" what do you think he means?

[Ozyhibby]

We still talking about the rap guy?


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[jamie_1875]

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We still talking about the rap guy?


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Yep, a single post to say actually he did mean death and not dismantle or reform and make the IDF kinder and nicer as was the story many on here spun.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DLkA_yQo...BuNTg1eTZ3MGc1


This whole thing, being offended by words, is a distraction for those who aren't offended by actions.