Scottish Independence

[Kato]

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What's your evidence for a large part of the Scottish population thinking Scotland is a colony? And I mean actual evidence for the colony part, not just they support Independence. We have Indy supporters on here who think the colony chat is a load of rubbish.

As far as I know there are no polls or research that has sought public opinion on if Scotland is a colony or not?

Anecdotal

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[Ozyhibby]

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Income tax is devolved as is Land and Buildings Transaction Tax (why can't it just be called Stamp Duty) there is also Air Departure tax and I believe the landfill tax is devolved as well. And of course a new tax could be proposed and agreed as well if required.

I understand it's not what you want but that's then up to the Indy side to put forward proposals for change.

Income tax is not devolved. There are some variance powers of about 1%.


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[jamie_1875]

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Income tax is not devolved. There are some variance powers of about 1%.


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Higher rate tax in England is 40% at the threshold of £50,271. Higher rate tax in Scotland is 42% on threshold of £43,633 so 1% cannot be true.

I think the rules where it has to be within a certain % no longer apply, the SG could set whatever rate it wants.

[Hibspur]

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And you're qualified to make that assumption or is it just an opinion of a self proclaimed loather of the SNP?

What assumption? That we have the UK Parliament (including 57 Scottish MPs), the UK Government and devolved administrations in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland (with a savvy Alex Salmond engineering a name change from the Scottish Executive to the Scottish Government to dilute the 'pretendy wee parliament' claims)? That's our system of government. Those are the facts, not assumptions, and my loathing of the SNP is neither here nor there in that regard.

[Stairway 2 7]

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At least you two are agreeing on something.

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Probably because its fairly ludicrous to say Holyrood has no power. It just gives the SNP the get out of jail of don't blame us for the most important things like, education or health, blame the English

[Kato]

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Probably because its fairly ludicrous to say Holyrood has no power. It just gives the SNP the get out of jail of don't blame us for the most important things like, education or health, blame the English

I didn't say Holyrood has no power.

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[Ozyhibby]

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Higher rate tax in England is 40% at the threshold of £50,271. Higher rate tax in Scotland is 42% on threshold of £43,633 so 1% cannot be true.

I think the rules where it has to be within a certain % no longer apply, the SG could set whatever rate it wants.

If you only have control of one tax then it reduces your room for manoeuvre.


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[jamie_1875]

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If you only have control of one tax then it reduces your room for manoeuvre.


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You started out saying income tax was restricted to 1%, that was wrong and now you are saying it's a single tax when I already listed more devolved taxes above like the Building and Lands Transactions Tax.....so wrong again.

[Andy Bee]

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The Scottish Parliament is one of the most powerful devolved parliaments in the world. It has extensive powers over areas like health, education, justice, and significant control over taxation and welfare— way more than Wales or Northern Ireland and many other devolved legislatures globally. I am sure there are more powerful devolved parliaments but not many.

*FACTCHECKER*

The Faroe Islands are probably the most powerful devolved Parliament in the world, 55,000 people only, you wonder how they cope? very well indeed. Interestingly another Government with more powers than Scotland is also in the UK with The Isle of Man, they control all taxes, funny that. There's other English Islands with similar powers. If a devolved government doesn't have full fiscal autonomy like Scotland it has no real power at all, add to that not being allowed our own immigration system, not being allowed to get involved in energy generation when we're awash with resources, our legal system being superseded by Blairs Supreme Court. As mentioned the Scottish Parliament was originally named The Scottish Executive but the name was changed, yup a Parliaments name was changed, apparently you can do that, claims of it being a glorified council aren't that far off the mark.

I keep seeing NHS getting mentioned and yes the SG has control over it but it receives its spending based on a percentage of what the English NHS spends. What happens as is the case when it's cheaper to run the English NHS than the Scottish NHS due to demographics? It's far cheaper to run a trust in built up areas like London or Birmingham over trying to run rural trusts in Scotland but it's assumed a set % is the correct way, that's a race to the bottom isn't it?

[Stairway 2 7]

Does Scotland not get about 30% more per head to spend than England due to Barnett, surely quite a lot of wiggle room to do what you want

[Andy Bee]

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Does Scotland not get about 30% more per head to spend than England due to Barnett, surely quite a lot of wiggle room to do what you want

I've no idea what the true figures are, there's that many claims and counter claims I've given up trying but the fact remains some of those Barnett consequentials are calculated as a percentage of what the English NHS spends.

[Kato]

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*FACTCHECKER*

The Faroe Islands are probably the most powerful devolved Parliament in the world, 55,000 people only, you wonder how they cope? very well indeed. Interestingly another Government with more powers than Scotland is also in the UK with The Isle of Man, they control all taxes, funny that. There's other English Islands with similar powers.

Add in the Channel Isles and the City of London when it comes to tax laws.

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[Ozyhibby]

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Does Scotland not get about 30% more per head to spend than England due to Barnett, surely quite a lot of wiggle room to do what you want

About 13% but our tax contribution is also above the UK average.


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[Jack]

The Barnet Formula includes an element to take into account the remote and rural areas of Scotland.

A stark example of this is the largest GP Practice in Scotland, by area, covers approximately 500 square miles. It's up the north west way. The scenery is awesome!

London covers approximately 600 square miles and has around 1,500 GP Practices 😆

It obviously covers other public services as well.

[jamie_1875]

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*FACTCHECKER*

The Faroe Islands are probably the most powerful devolved Parliament in the world, 55,000 people only, you wonder how they cope? very well indeed. Interestingly another Government with more powers than Scotland is also in the UK with The Isle of Man, they control all taxes, funny that. There's other English Islands with similar powers. If a devolved government doesn't have full fiscal autonomy like Scotland it has no real power at all, add to that not being allowed our own immigration system, not being allowed to get involved in energy generation when we're awash with resources, our legal system being superseded by Blairs Supreme Court. As mentioned the Scottish Parliament was originally named The Scottish Executive but the name was changed, yup a Parliaments name was changed, apparently you can do that, claims of it being a glorified council aren't that far off the mark.

I keep seeing NHS getting mentioned and yes the SG has control over it but it receives its spending based on a percentage of what the English NHS spends. What happens as is the case when it's cheaper to run the English NHS than the Scottish NHS due to demographics? It's far cheaper to run a trust in built up areas like London or Birmingham over trying to run rural trusts in Scotland but it's assumed a set % is the correct way, that's a race to the bottom isn't it?

If Scotland had a population of 55,000 we could be just like the Faroe Islands!

It doesn't really matter if it's Denmark, Norway or whoever it's a very simplicist argument to make that just because X or Y is successful then that means we will as well. It has taken centuries for these places to be what they are.

But a plan of how Scotland in 2025 can be like Denmark for example would likely help, but I see anybody offering anything like that.

We could be like Denmark and raise the retirement age to 70 (in 2040) which will be the highest in Europe, no thanks to that.

[Stairway 2 7]

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About 13% but our tax contribution is also above the UK average.


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We apparently get 10.4% more than we bring in from tax. Its about £2000 more per head spent than England

[Andy Bee]

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If Scotland had a population of 55,000 we could be just like the Faroe Islands!

It doesn't really matter if it's Denmark, Norway or whoever it's a very simplicist argument to make that just because X or Y is successful then that means we will as well. It has taken centuries for these places to be what they are.

But a plan of how Scotland in 2025 can be like Denmark for example would likely help, but I see nobody offering anything like that.

We could be like Denmark and raise the retirement age to 70 (in 2040) which will be the highest in Europe, no thanks to that.

What like cutting edge infrastructure like their tunnels connecting all their islands? yup yes please.

You haven't read any of Commonweals policies yet have you because that's an example of one group who have exactly done that. I agree though, a constitutional convention is needed, something the SNP agreed to in 2020.

We could be like Switzerland in that regard where the population are asked to vote on policy changes as important as raising the pension, if the population don't want it they don't get it. It's called direct democracy.

[Andy Bee]

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We apparently get 10.4% more than we bring in from tax. Its about £2000 more per head spent than England

There's a rabbit hole there on how much exactly Scotland generates in tax and how much it would generate when Independent. I frequently see crazy numbers from both sides of the divide.

[Hibs4185]

The way I look at all the revenue debates is…

You can work in a boring office job all day, get your wages, buy a house and get a pension. You can watch your boss make more money and have a nice life whilst you slave away.

Some people aspire to take control of their own destiny and put the work in to make it happen. Or you sit and take the easy life and take what you’re given by your employer.

I know what a chose in life and I know what I want Scotland to choose.

If you like Ireland, they’re hardly struggling and yet have a fraction of our resources.

So yeah there might be a thousand statistics about tax and income etc but I personally believe Scotland has the potential to thrive and not just survive and there’s plenty of evidence to support that.

[Kato]

Seems a bit unfair that people in Scotland get and extra 10-11% spent on them than other areas.

Wouldn't it be fairer to have a single tax system across all the UK's territories and Crown dependencies? That way everyone in the UK, the Channel Isles, the Isle of Man, the City of London, Anguilla, Bermuda, British Indian Ocean Territory, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Montserrat, Pitcairn, Henderson, Ducie and Oeno Islands, Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands can come under the auspices of HMRC. Do away with the tricksy offshore Shell companies, trusts, tax wheezes etc etc etc etc while we're at it.

It would take a bit of auditing, especially the City of London and those Magic Islands with Magic Banks, but it seems to me the country would be better off.

Saying you'd probably get knocked off for suggesting it.

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[Andy Bee]

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Seems a bit unfair that people in Scotland get and extra 10-11% spent on them than other areas.

Wouldn't it be fairer to have a single tax system across all the UK's territories and Crown dependencies? That way everyone in the UK, the Channel Isles, the Isle of Man, the City of London, Anguilla, Bermuda, British Indian Ocean Territory, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Montserrat, Pitcairn, Henderson, Ducie and Oeno Islands, Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands can come under the auspices of HMRC. Do away with the tricksy offshore Shell companies, trusts, tax wheezes etc etc etc etc while we're at it.

It would take a bit of auditing, especially the City of London and those Magic Islands with Magic Banks, but it seems to me the country would be better off.

Saying you'd probably get knocked off for suggesting it.

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You'll get Corbynated the same as me for suggesting a maximum wage.

[jamie_1875]

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The way I look at all the revenue debates is…

You can work in a boring office job all day, get your wages, buy a house and get a pension. You can watch your boss make more money and have a nice life whilst you slave away.

Some people aspire to take control of their own destiny and put the work in to make it happen. Or you sit and take the easy life and take what you’re given by your employer.

I know what a chose in life and I know what I want Scotland to choose.

If you like Ireland, they’re hardly struggling and yet have a fraction of our resources.

So yeah there might be a thousand statistics about tax and income etc but I personally believe Scotland has the potential to thrive and not just survive and there’s plenty of evidence to support that.

Aren't bosses generally paid more than their employees? My boss is a higher grade than me so gets paid more, but he has a number of failed marriages and it costs him a fortune so I would definitely say I have "nicer life" despite him getting a higher salary than me. But I am really not sure what point you are making with that tale or story?

[Ozyhibby]

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Seems a bit unfair that people in Scotland get and extra 10-11% spent on them than other areas.

Wouldn't it be fairer to have a single tax system across all the UK's territories and Crown dependencies? That way everyone in the UK, the Channel Isles, the Isle of Man, the City of London, Anguilla, Bermuda, British Indian Ocean Territory, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Montserrat, Pitcairn, Henderson, Ducie and Oeno Islands, Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands can come under the auspices of HMRC. Do away with the tricksy offshore Shell companies, trusts, tax wheezes etc etc etc etc while we're at it.

It would take a bit of auditing, especially the City of London and those Magic Islands with Magic Banks, but it seems to me the country would be better off.

Saying you'd probably get knocked off for suggesting it.

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Centralising everything in London? Fantastic.


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[Kato]

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You'll get Corbynated the same as me for suggesting a maximum wage.

Maybe.

Depends on how you couch the language.

When that Brexit thing was happening and all the Brexi-twats were shouting at people if you spoke in favour of "sending money abroad" to the EU, those people were labelled as "unpatriotic". Tax evasion/avoidance (same thing, just some laws invented by the monetrists in the last 40 years is the difference) seems highly unpatriotic in light of that, maybe the most unpatriotic thing of all given its K-Chuck who collects it. Also when you consider its somewhere between hundreds of billions to several trillions of pounds (no one knows, cos its a secret not available to the British people, an audit would help), that's some heist.

What would be better than all of King Sausage-Fingers subjects to be taxed along exactly the same lines, including him.

As the Tories said (lied) in 2010 "we are all in this together", before they whipped the carpet from under all those who weren't rich already. Surely the Tories, and the right wingers on here, can see the sense in a patriotic tax system along the lines of that slogan (that they lied about) and make up for austerity - in a patriotic manner.

The subsequent investment available in the UK would solve a multitude of problems and probably put Indy to bed. Great British pariotism right there.

The rich would still stay rich, just not obscenely so to the detriment of the rest of Great Britain, speaking patriotically.

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[Kato]

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Centralising everything in London? Fantastic.


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Mate, there isn't a rats chance it'll happen.

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[Kato]

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Centralising everything in London? Fantastic.


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Also.

That wouldn't necessarily have to be the case given the amount or what needs done in this country.

Norway have £1.8Tr sitting there belonging to all of there people. In the same time we've allowed a cash grab of trillions belonging to a couple of thousand people.

The investement would solve practically every financial problem discussed on here.



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[overdrive]

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*FACTCHECKER*

The Faroe Islands are probably the most powerful devolved Parliament in the world, 55,000 people only, you wonder how they cope? very well indeed. Interestingly another Government with more powers than Scotland is also in the UK with The Isle of Man, they control all taxes, funny that. There's other English Islands with similar powers. If a devolved government doesn't have full fiscal autonomy like Scotland it has no real power at all, add to that not being allowed our own immigration system, not being allowed to get involved in energy generation when we're awash with resources, our legal system being superseded by Blairs Supreme Court. As mentioned the Scottish Parliament was originally named The Scottish Executive but the name was changed, yup a Parliaments name was changed, apparently you can do that, claims of it being a glorified council aren't that far off the mark.

I keep seeing NHS getting mentioned and yes the SG has control over it but it receives its spending based on a percentage of what the English NHS spends. What happens as is the case when it's cheaper to run the English NHS than the Scottish NHS due to demographics? It's far cheaper to run a trust in built up areas like London or Birmingham over trying to run rural trusts in Scotland but it's assumed a set % is the correct way, that's a race to the bottom isn't it?

*FACTCHECKER*

The Scottish Parliament has always been called the Scottish Parliament and has never been called the Scottish Executive. The Scottish Executive was the former name of what is now called the Scottish Government.

[Andy Bee]

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*FACTCHECKER*

The Scottish Parliament has always been called the Scottish Parliament and has never been called the Scottish Executive. The Scottish Executive was the former name of what is now called the Scottish Government.

You're right and I stand corrected, I will now take time to reflect and offer myself up for a public flogging at noon today in my local town square.

[Moulin Yarns]

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*FACTCHECKER*

The Scottish Parliament has always been called the Scottish Parliament and has never been called the Scottish Executive. The Scottish Executive was the former name of what is now called the Scottish Government.

*FACTCHECKER*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6974798.stm#:~:text=The%20Scottish%20Executive%20h as%20been,like%20the%20term%20Scottish%20Executive

The Scottish Executive changed its name to the Scottish Government in 2007