Gary Lineker

[Keith_M]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

But noone with a functioning brain genuinely, truly believes Lineker is ACTUALLY anti-Semitic. Thats ludicrous. Its a debate based on distraction and falsehoods, smear and diversion. Looking at and learning about whats genuinely happening and tolerated in that part of the world is so distressing and enough to make you lose your grip on reality, so its hardly surprising distraction and disinformation works.

Yep, agreed.

What's worse, accidentally re-posting a message that you didn't realise had an offensive meaning (then apologizing when it's pointed out to you)... or bombing, shooting and starving people to death on a daily basis?

While people shouldn't be posting anything anti-semitic or islamaphobic, for some people, it is a really easy/useful distraction from a serious issue.

[Kato]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Regardless of personal political opinions, BBC are supposed to be an impartial broadcaster, therefore their employees should be. Lineker has failed to be that.

Yet Jeremy Clarkson could say what wanted and was only sacked when he physically attacked someone because he couldn't have sausages.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[superfurryhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As someone with Jewish heritage in the family, I felt that he crossed a line last week. Anti-Semitism is the oldest form of racism, all too often swept under a cloak of being 'anti-Israel'. He betrayed a (sadly common) lack of historical awareness.

However, as I've mentioned on another thread my bugbear with him was that while he seemed fine with pontificating on the more 'centrist dad' issues of the day like Brexit, he refused to engage when questioned about his silence on biological men undermining women's sport, an issue you'd think as a high-profile sports presenter he might have a opinion worth hearing. Yet when challenged about it on a Q&A on The Rest is Football podcast by Martina Navratilova and others he just said it was 'too nuanced'.

Tweet about the Arab-Israeli conflict, one of the world's longest running and most divisive issues, no problem. But men in women's sport? Way too complex.

He actually said

"trans people are some of the most persecuted on the planet” in a recent interview, describing the noise created by anti-trans activists around trans inclusion in sports as “too nuanced” for social media discussion.

Nonsense about anti-semitism and

I think you're confused and equating being anti genocidal with being anti-Semitic. He re-posted a video that was anti-Zionist, it included a rat emoticon that is apparently a symbol of anti-semitism ( something I also never knew). He nows says he deeply regretted this (the emoticon).

In your world criticism of the Israeli genocide often contains underlying anti-Semitism. For many of us it seems the opposite, the anti-Semitic line is used too often to try and silence dissenting voices.

If speaking out against the Tories, homophobia, persecution of trans sportspeople, genocide in Palestine, right wing populism and anti-immigration makes you a "centrist dad", then there's no helping you.

Well done to Lineker for having the bawz to stand up for the rights of others and speak out. He's grown further in my estimation

[Baader]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yet Jeremy Clarkson could say what wanted and was only sacked when he physically attacked someone because he couldn't have sausages.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Yep. A long history of voicing right wing sentiments, xenophobia, racism, misogyny and stating striking British workers should be "executed." BBC fine with that. All in jest of course

Kept on for 3 weeks after punching a producer and directing anti Irish slurs at him.

[hibsbollah]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yep, agreed.

What's worse, accidentally re-posting a message that you didn't realise had an offensive meaning (then apologizing when it's pointed out to you)... or bombing, shooting and starving people to death on a daily basis?

While people shouldn't be posting anything anti-semitic or islamaphobic, for some people, it is a really easy/useful distraction from a serious issue.

Im really trying to keep this on Lineker and not going holy ground, because it’s interesting, but the rat being a ‘symbol’ of antisemitism is a bit simplistic anyway, its used widely in cinema to generate revulsion in the viewer (because we are hard wired to worry about those creatures). The nazis used them in disgusting anti jewish propaganda of the time, but its a cinematic trope used more widely-look at JFK-Oliver Stone uses really Goebells like rat like imagery in the Joe Pesci scene. The use of a rat, or a line from a historical novel for that matter,, isnt a smoking gun that should be a resigning issue for him. And it probably wasnt, he’s probably just sick of the BBC anyway because of his opinion of their Israeli war crime coverage.

[Hibspur]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

But noone with a functioning brain genuinely, truly believes Lineker is ACTUALLY anti-Semitic. Thats ludicrous. Its a debate based on distraction and falsehoods, smear and diversion. Looking at and learning about whats genuinely happening and tolerated in that part of the world is so distressing and enough to make you lose your grip on reality, so its hardly surprising distraction and disinformation works.

Whether he's racist or not isn't the issue here (and I don't think anyone seriously things he is either). It's the lazy re-posting of a highly subjective (ie anti-Jewish) view of Zionism accompanied by an offensive Nazi-related emoji, the wisdom of which anyone with a functioning brain should have thought twice about. Epitomises how blase many are about commentary which harms Jews.

[hibsbollah]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Whether he's racist or not isn't the issue here (and I don't think anyone seriously things he is either). It's the lazy re-posting of a highly subjective (ie anti-Jewish) view of Zionism accompanied by an offensive Nazi-related emoji, the wisdom of which anyone with a functioning brain should have thought twice about. Epitomises how blase many are about commentary which harms Jews.

Its not an anti-jewish view of zionism, its an anti-zionist view of zionism. Lots of jews abhor zionism, and the state of Israel. If you conflate the two, it’s simple propaganda.

Anyway, I’ve clearly now failed to keep this on Lineker, and off the politics of mass murder and war crimes, so im out now.

[Kato]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Im really trying to keep this on Lineker and not going holy ground, because it’s interesting, but the rat being a ‘symbol’ of antisemitism is a bit simplistic anyway, its used widely in cinema to generate revulsion in the viewer (because we are hard wired to worry about those creatures). The nazis used them in disgusting anti jewish propaganda of the time, but its a cinematic trope used more widely-look at JFK-Oliver Stone uses really Goebells like rat like imagery in the Joe Pesci scene. The use of a rat, or a line from a historical novel for that matter,, isnt a smoking gun that should be a resigning issue for him. And it probably wasnt, he’s probably just sick of the BBC anyway because of his opinion of their Israeli war crime coverage.

There was one very particular propaganda movie made by Goebbels' which even Hitler thought was beyond the pale. They ended up cutting even more rat footage into the movie. It worked. It worked because propaganda works.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[McD]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

He actually said

"trans people are some of the most persecuted on the planet” in a recent interview, describing the noise created by anti-trans activists around trans inclusion in sports as “too nuanced” for social media discussion.

Nonsense about anti-semitism and

I think you're confused and equating being anti genocidal with being anti-Semitic. He re-posted a video that was anti-Zionist, it included a rat emoticon that is apparently a symbol of anti-semitism ( something I also never knew). He nows says he deeply regretted this (the emoticon).

In your world criticism of the Israeli genocide often contains underlying anti-Semitism. For many of us it seems the opposite, the anti-Semitic line is used too often to try and silence dissenting voices.

If speaking out against the Tories, homophobia, persecution of trans sportspeople, genocide in Palestine, right wing populism and anti-immigration makes you a "centrist dad", then there's no helping you.

Well done to Lineker for having the bawz to stand up for the rights of others and speak out. He's grown further in my estimation

Public figure uses his public profile to highlight things he perceives (along with many others) to be spoken out against, I don’t see an issue with that.


I don’t believe he knew the symbolism regarding the rat, like you I didn’t either, and he has removed the post and apologised. If he’d posted something with a swastika displayed on it I could understand the furore about this, as it is it feels more like an easy way for the right wing to further criticise him, and ultimately leading to him leaving his role prematurely.

[Hibspur]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Its not an anti-jewish view of zionism, its an anti-zionist view of zionism. Lots of jews abhor zionism, and the state of Israel.If you conflate the two, it’s simple propaganda.

Anyway, I’ve clearly now failed to keep this on Lineker, and off the politics of mass murder and war crimes, so im out now.

Only in its weaponised form.

And while many Jews support a two-state solution it doesn't mean they abhor the idea of a Jewish homeland.

[HNA11]

Guys I think you all know what is going to be asked here.

The discussion about Gary Linker is relevant to football in his role as MOTD host, the discussion about his right to freedom of expression in such a role is relevant because it ultimately impacts other footballers and those involved in football.

The ongoing situation in Gaza is obviously emotive and important but the cold, hard truth is that it isn't relevant to football and this is the board for football chat. It's not about stifling discussion on such an issue but rather keeping it in the right place.

Thanks in advance for understanding.

[Bostonhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Guys I think you all know what is going to be asked here.

The discussion about Gary Linker is relevant to football in his role as MOTD host, the discussion about his right to freedom of expression in such a role is relevant because it ultimately impacts other footballers and those involved in football.

The ongoing situation in Gaza is obviously emotive and important but the cold, hard truth is that it isn't relevant to football and this is the board for football chat. It's not about stifling discussion on such an issue but rather keeping it in the right place.

Thanks in advance for understanding.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

He actually said

"trans people are some of the most persecuted on the planet” in a recent interview, describing the noise created by anti-trans activists around trans inclusion in sports as “too nuanced” for social media discussion.

Nonsense about anti-semitism and

I think you're confused and equating being anti genocidal with being anti-Semitic. He re-posted a video that was anti-Zionist, it included a rat emoticon that is apparently a symbol of anti-semitism ( something I also never knew). He nows says he deeply regretted this (the emoticon).

In your world criticism of the Israeli genocide often contains underlying anti-Semitism. For many of us it seems the opposite, the anti-Semitic line is used too often to try and silence dissenting voices.

If speaking out against the Tories, homophobia, persecution of trans sportspeople, genocide in Palestine, right wing populism and anti-immigration makes you a "centrist dad", then there's no helping you.

Well done to Lineker for having the bawz to stand up for the rights of others and speak out. He's grown further in my estimation

Keeping this on a football/sport theme I can't agree with you on Lineker's deflection tactics around women's rights. If the interview you're alluding to is the one I'm thinking of he displayed near total ignorance of the issue, believing that the only sporting controversy arose around a boxer who wasn't even trans. He seemed oblivious to the issues at grass roots level (eg 1500 men in women's sports in the US alone). As Sharon Davies put it: 'Not a real issue for Gary because it doesn't affect men's sport'.

For 'too nuanced' read 'I don't know/care'.

[hibby rae]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Keeping this on a football/sport theme I can't agree with you on Lineker's deflection tactics around women's rights. If the interview you're alluding to is the one I'm thinking of he displayed near total ignorance of the issue, believing that the only sporting controversy arose around a boxer who wasn't even trans. He seemed oblivious to the issues at grass roots level (eg 1500 men in women's sports in the US alone). As Sharon Davies put it: 'Not a real issue for Gary because it doesn't affect men's sport'.

For 'too nuanced' read 'I don't know/care'.

Source? Bear in mind 1500 out of a population of 340 million is miniscule amounts, and I could ony find this number:

"Trans people are estimated to make up 1-2% of the population of the United States; however, trans people make up less than less than 0.002% (10/500,000) of US college athletes".

https://www.sf.gov/trans-women-in-sp...acts-over-fear

It would be ironic to quote a false number when accusing someone else of ignorance on this issue.

[superfurryhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Keeping this on a football/sport theme I can't agree with you on Lineker's deflection tactics around women's rights. If the interview you're alluding to is the one I'm thinking of he displayed near total ignorance of the issue, believing that the only sporting controversy arose around a boxer who wasn't even trans. He seemed oblivious to the issues at grass roots level (eg 1500 men in women's sports in the US alone). As Sharon Davies put it: 'Not a real issue for Gary because it doesn't affect men's sport'.

For 'too nuanced' read 'I don't know/care'.

Having read this post a couple of times, I've no idea what you're talking about with the comments about men in women's sports.

The boxer is you refer to is but one person, the issue of transitioned former men taking part in competitive women's sport is a bit more "nuanced", I think we all know that.

The rest, Lineker's attitude, what constitutes real issues and Sharon Davis, I'll bow to your clear expertise on everything the guy has apparently stated a view on or "cares about", I'm still content that he's entitled to an opinion, sporting matters or otherwise. He seems like a decent guy who's willing to lend his voice to causes he supports. A nice counterpoint to right-wing Reform franchise worshipping doom merchants.

[McD]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Keeping this on a football/sport theme I can't agree with you on Lineker's deflection tactics around women's rights. If the interview you're alluding to is the one I'm thinking of he displayed near total ignorance of the issue, believing that the only sporting controversy arose around a boxer who wasn't even trans. He seemed oblivious to the issues at grass roots level (eg 1500 men in women's sports in the US alone). As Sharon Davies put it: 'Not a real issue for Gary because it doesn't affect men's sport'.

For 'too nuanced' read 'I don't know/care'.

There’s quite a distance between ‘don’t know’ and ‘don’t care’, plus the full quote is that he felt it was too nuanced for a social media discussion, which in the highly polarised world of social media, is probably a fair point.


Given his willingness to speak up on a range of topics, I think to suggest he doesn’t care is an unfair and harsh comment.

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There’s quite a distance between ‘don’t know’ and ‘don’t care’, plus the full quote is that he felt it was too nuanced for a social media discussion, which in the highly polarised world of social media, is probably a fair point.


Given his willingness to speak up on a range of topics, I think to suggest he doesn’t care is an unfair and harsh comment.

He seems happy to embrace the highly polarised world of social media when it suits him.

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Source? Bear in mind 1500 out of a population of 340 million is miniscule amounts, and I could ony find this number:

"Trans people are estimated to make up 1-2% of the population of the United States; however, trans people make up less than less than 0.002% (10/500,000) of US college athletes".

https://www.sf.gov/trans-women-in-sp...acts-over-fear

It would be ironic to quote a false number when accusing someone else of ignorance on this issue.

Apologies, I've just seen your post. I was paraphrasing Navratilova's response to Lineker which I heard on 5 Live Sport, but I'll see if I can dig out something more concrete.

In the meantime, Sharron Davies alludes here to 3,500 women's races being won by men and the results of over 11,000 races being impacted. She doesn't mention where she's sourced that, but given her campaigning on this issue over many years her research will most likely be exhaustive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAV0Nsp-Wwc

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Source? Bear in mind 1500 out of a population of 340 million is miniscule amounts, and I could ony find this number:

"Trans people are estimated to make up 1-2% of the population of the United States; however, trans people make up less than less than 0.002% (10/500,000) of US college athletes".

https://www.sf.gov/trans-women-in-sp...acts-over-fear

It would be ironic to quote a false number when accusing someone else of ignorance on this issue.

Still on the case with Navratilova but I note Davies has alluded to similar numbers here:

https://x.com/sharrond62/status/1923031476246855879

[Thatdayinmay16]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

In this country, that's a big no-no.

In every country, that's a big no-no.

[Hibspur]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think you're getting a bit carried away with yourself here CM.

In the early days the BBC was so good at propaganda that Joseph Goebbels used it as a model for Hitler's Nazi propaganda machine.

You might expect the Corporation to produce some good programming in the near 100 years they've been in existence, particularly so, given that they had a monopoly on the TV screen for so long but I think it's fair to say that they've also produced some amount of guff and, as an aside, the budget they 'give' to Scottish Football is an absolute joke.

With regard to Gary Lineker he is massively overpaid for what he does, whether he does it well or not is not relevant. I don't see people turning off MOTD when it's presented by Dan Walker or anyone else half decent for that matter.

For what it's worth, I don't subscribe to Sky TV but at least I can opt in or out as I please. I have no option with the BBC and genuinely grudge seeing my TV licence fee wasted on former footballers and worse still failed reporters and politicians like Andrew Neil and Micheal Portillo.

I won't hear a word against Great Railway Journeys

[Hibspur]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There’s quite a distance between ‘don’t know’ and ‘don’t care’, plus the full quote is that he felt it was too nuanced for a social media discussion, which in the highly polarised world of social media, is probably a fair point.


Given his willingness to speak up on a range of topics, I think to suggest he doesn’t care is an unfair and harsh comment.

What's nuanced about it? As someone else has mentioned, Martina Navratilova took him to task over that claim and had no problem to summing things up very succinctly on social media:

“Truly unbelievable. What an utter load of BS – and I am being nice. Seriously, Gary? It’s OK for men to compete against female bodies? You must be joking.”

In fairness to Lineker, I don't think he actually understands the issue because he claimed sport would sort it out "like in boxing, when they realised they couldn't have heavyweights against little fellas."

[superfurryhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What's nuanced about it? As someone else has mentioned, Martina Navratilova took him to task over that claim and had no problem to summing things up very succinctly on social media:

“Truly unbelievable. What an utter load of BS – and I am being nice. Seriously, Gary? It’s OK for men to compete against female bodies? You must be joking.”

In fairness to Lineker, I don't think he actually understands the issue because he claimed sport would sort it out "like in boxing, when they realised they couldn't have heavyweights against little fellas."

You understand that "sport sorting it out" is exactly what has transpired?


"following the judgment in For Women Scotland, The FA announced that trans women would no longer be able to play matches in women’s football from 1 June 2025 [3]. We refer to “play matches” and “participate in the women’s game” below for ease of reference. However, it is worth noting The FA’s policy is limited to matches sanctioned by The FA and relevant other associations. Whether trans women can participate in matches not sanctioned by The FA or relevant other associations, and in non-match activities like training sessions, is a decision for the relevant organiser. The announcement does not mention any ban on trans men participating in the men’s game".

[superfurryhibby]

This is what Lineker actually said, with full knowledge that there was a policy position change from the FA.

" Lineker felt the topic of trans inclusion was “too nuanced” for a social media post. “I don’t think, in terms of sport, that it will ever be a real issue,” he said. “Sport, as it’s already doing, will sort it out and work out rules, like they did in boxing, when they realised they couldn’t have heavyweights against little fellas.”

"He then said trans people were “some of the most persecuted on the planet”, before adding: “You’ve got to be very careful not to have bigoted views on that. I genuinely feel really badly for trans people. Imagine going through what they have to go through in life. Is there even any issue?”


Seemingly referring to Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard and Imane Khelif, Lineker, who scored 461 goals in 238 first-team appearances in England, Spain and Japan, went on to say: “It’s the same swimmer, the same weightlifter, the same boxer. They’re the only people I ever see.

“We’ve got the Women’s Euros [football competition] in the summer, let’s see if there’s one issue. I don’t think there is. Are you telling me that there are many people who pretend to be women just so they’re going to be good at sport?

“It’s so complex, I see both sides to a degree.”

https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/05/...-ban-football/

[Kato]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What's nuanced about it? As someone else has mentioned, Martina Navratilova took him to task over that claim and had no problem to summing things up very succinctly on social media:

“Truly unbelievable. What an utter load of BS – and I am being nice. Seriously, Gary? It’s OK for men to compete against female bodies? You must be joking.”

In fairness to Lineker, I don't think he actually understands the issue because he claimed sport would sort it out "like in boxing, when they realised they couldn't have heavyweights against little fellas."

When weight levels were introduced into boxing it was contensious and not everyone was in favour. That change came over time and was eventually codified. Lightweights werent taken very seriously for example. Sports are going through a slightly similar discussion now in how to codify in order to accommodate people who want to take part. There have been massive errors but it will take time. Lineker's comments aren't all that strange.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[easty]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This is what Lineker actually said, with full knowledge that there was a policy position change from the FA.

" Lineker felt the topic of trans inclusion was “too nuanced” for a social media post. “I don’t think, in terms of sport, that it will ever be a real issue,” he said. “Sport, as it’s already doing, will sort it out and work out rules, like they did in boxing, when they realised they couldn’t have heavyweights against little fellas.”

"He then said trans people were “some of the most persecuted on the planet”, before adding: “You’ve got to be very careful not to have bigoted views on that. I genuinely feel really badly for trans people. Imagine going through what they have to go through in life. Is there even any issue?”


Seemingly referring to Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard and Imane Khelif, Lineker, who scored 461 goals in 238 first-team appearances in England, Spain and Japan, went on to say: “It’s the same swimmer, the same weightlifter, the same boxer. They’re the only people I ever see.

“We’ve got the Women’s Euros [football competition] in the summer, let’s see if there’s one issue. I don’t think there is. Are you telling me that there are many people who pretend to be women just so they’re going to be good at sport?

“It’s so complex, I see both sides to a degree.”

https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/05/...-ban-football/

Hard to find fault in any of the above in my opinion.

[superfurryhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Hard to find fault in any of the above in my opinion.

What makes it stranger is that Navratilova's comments, and those of Sharon Davis, were made in November last year.