Why is Edinburgh so filthy?

[Kato]

We've voted in governments which prioritise profit over any kind of social contract for 45 years. Of course places are going to be run down and neglected. Go to the North of England and places which don't have the benefit of tourism are totally ramshackle.

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[hibsbollah]

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We've voted in governments which prioritise profit over any kind of social contract for 45 years. Of course places are going to be run down and neglected. Go to the North of England and places which don't have the benefit of tourism are totally ramshackle.

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There’s a lot of different factors at play at the same time, but the main one is lack of investment/austerity for year after year. What do they THINK is going to happen?

[The_Exile]

I try and vote for who I think will be better for the country and all the people in it. There's a depressing lack of options really on that front and as others have mentioned, the consistent cutting to the bone of funding for local auhtorities is devestating to any town or city. The older I get though, the more I can't particularly be doing with other humans. A lot of what you see on the surface level is other people just being dirty minging barstewards.

[Smartie]

Interestingly enough, after my earlier rant…

Chargers for electric cars are being installed at my flats (in itself, something that should provide an environmental improvement).

Whilst this is being done, we’ve got to shift our cars. When I was walking to the car this morning there was a council guy out, hacking away some weeds and generally tidying the place up. Fair play to him, and whoever sent him. It’s the first time I’ve seen anything like this in years, and it will have an impact.

The tales of similar happening elsewhere that were mentioned earlier in the thread felt like an world away so I felt it only fair to acknowledge the fact that this was happening, on my doorstep, just this morning.

[Bridge hibs]

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We've voted in governments which prioritise profit over any kind of social contract for 45 years. Of course places are going to be run down and neglected. Go to the North of England and places which don't have the benefit of tourism are totally ramshackle.

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They sweep the **** outwards and downwards, ye olde edinburgh

[Hibspur]

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I try and vote for who I think will be better for the country and all the people in it. There's a depressing lack of options really on that front and as others have mentioned, the consistent cutting to the bone of funding for local auhtorities is devestating to any town or city. The older I get though, the more I can't particularly be doing with other humans. A lot of what you see on the surface level is other people just being dirty minging barstewards.

Can't disagree with that.

When it comes to cutbacks though, for as long the Scottish government continues to convince itself that constituents care most about issues like net zero, gender identity and Islamophobia we might ultimately see them pay the price for excluding more pressing issues to voters from their policy making. Just look at the way Reform pretty much swept the boards in England last week. A pledge to kick some ass when it comes to wasteful council spending has clearly been well received. Swinney of course, is making all the right noises about being concerned by Farage & co, when in private he'll be welcoming them making their presence felt in Scotland as it will split his opposition - meaning we're probably lumbered with him for another few years

[babahibs]

I was working in a flat off Leith Walk yesterday, working at a window area in the afternoon, there's a guy coming up the street on the other side of the road eating out of some sort of plastic container.

He finishes eating and just drops the container on the pavement, five yards on and he uses a key to enter the stair door opposite where I am. I presume he lives there.

With ****my behaviour like this, what chance do you have of keeping anywhere clean.

[silverhibee]

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I get what you're saying about the allocation of resources, but I'd be very surprised if many tourists would have described the city centre streets we walked along yesterday as looking nice. It was a foreign visitor who remarked to me how shabby it all looked and for me there's no question the maintenance has declined significantly.

I really don’t think it has declined, simply there is now more people in the city centre nowadays mostly tourists, but I’m sure the council do there best to keep it as clean as they can but the volume of visitors has surged over the years that it makes it difficult but every morning it’s spotless clean.

[heretoday]

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I try and vote for who I think will be better for the country and all the people in it. There's a depressing lack of options really on that front and as others have mentioned, the consistent cutting to the bone of funding for local auhtorities is devestating to any town or city. The older I get though, the more I can't particularly be doing with other humans. A lot of what you see on the surface level is other people just being dirty minging barstewards.

You're right!

[speedy_gonzales]

I could write my thoughts on this all day but just don't have the energy as my ramblings won't fix one iota.

But, the issue, in my opinion, is simply two things. The nature of the people and the pressures on resources.

The dynamic of the make-up of the city has changed a lot in the last 30 years.
We've always been a tourist city but with the advent of cheap online breaks coupled with the Insta 24hr getaway this brings a lot more folk in to the city and this brings a massive amount of single use disposable packaging amongst other things. In the immediate environs of the City Centre, the bins are full to overflowing.
This also leads to higher transient numbers of city dwellers. It's easier to disrespect a place if you fly out on Monday.
It has been argued elsewhere that those who rent don't tend to have the same "community investment" as owner-occupiers.

This brings us to resources, our council (like every other) is stretched to breaking.
30 years ago there were guys out with their "dust carts", every inch of public grass was regularly mowed and the vennels like Fleshmarket Close and the Scotsman Steps were hosed down, top to bottom, 6 days a week.
Today, the council has a hit squad of a couple of guys in one motor that drive around all day targeting the overflowing bins (city centre only) but that's akin to painting the Forth Bridge. Not all grass fields or verges are maintained as regular. Generally only the sports pitches when in season and other areas left to "wild seed" for biodiversity and I genuinely can't remember the last time the city closes were hosed down to flush out the filth.
Where we once had general routine maintenance, we're now relying on individual issues (gulleys/bins/weeds/etc) being reported online/social media and the council targets in response. But this can result in an imbalanced approach, the "squeaky wheel" scenario whereby some areas will be highly targeted due to the noise created, but then in other place residents feel it's not "their job" to report leading to a decline in the immediate amenity which spirals to "the place was always a shïthole, what difference will a telephone call make!".

Ultimately, for those of us that do the city break, turn a blind eye and take no responsibility, this is an issue of our own making .

[Hibspur]

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I really don’t think it has declined, simply there is now more people in the city centre nowadays mostly tourists, but I’m sure the council do there best to keep it as clean as they can but the volume of visitors has surged over the years that it makes it difficult but every morning it’s spotless clean.

I'm not expecting spotless clean. It wasn't so much the litter and grubby pavements which really struck me as much as the graffiti on numerous stair doors. They're quite literally covered in it. Somebody mentioned it's partly to do with gangs 'tagging' their territory. Whatever, it was new to me to see so much of that in the city centre.

[hibsbollah]

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I'm not expecting spotless clean. It wasn't so much the litter and grubby pavements which really struck me as much as the graffiti on numerous stair doors. They're quite literally covered in it. Somebody mentioned it's partly to do with gangs 'tagging' their territory. Whatever, it was new to me to see so much of that in the city centre.

Tags are a graffiti ‘artiste’s’ name, or signature. Its not a gang thing, and its not an exclusively Edinburgh thing either, it’s borrowed from US hiphop culture, now global, have you been to Paris or Rome and seen all the graffiti there?

[Hibspur]

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I could write my thoughts on this all day but just don't have the energy as my ramblings won't fix one iota.

But, the issue, in my opinion, is simply two things. The nature of the people and the pressures on resources.

The dynamic of the make-up of the city has changed a lot in the last 30 years.
We've always been a tourist city but with the advent of cheap online breaks coupled with the Insta 24hr getaway this brings a lot more folk in to the city and this brings a massive amount of single use disposable packaging amongst other things. In the immediate environs of the City Centre, the bins are full to overflowing.
This also leads to higher transient numbers of city dwellers. It's easier to disrespect a place if you fly out on Monday.
It has been argued elsewhere that those who rent don't tend to have the same "community investment" as owner-occupiers.

This brings us to resources, our council (like every other) is stretched to breaking.
30 years ago there were guys out with their "dust carts", every inch of public grass was regularly mowed and the vennels like Fleshmarket Close and the Scotsman Steps were hosed down, top to bottom, 6 days a week.
Today, the council has a hit squad of a couple of guys in one motor that drive around all day targeting the overflowing bins (city centre only) but that's akin to painting the Forth Bridge. Not all grass fields or verges are maintained as regular. Generally only the sports pitches when in season and other areas left to "wild seed" for biodiversity and I genuinely can't remember the last time the city closes were hosed down to flush out the filth.
Where we once had general routine maintenance, we're now relying on individual issues (gulleys/bins/weeds/etc) being reported online/social media and the council targets in response. But this can result in an imbalanced approach, the "squeaky wheel" scenario whereby some areas will be highly targeted due to the noise created, but then in other place residents feel it's not "their job" to report leading to a decline in the immediate amenity which spirals to "the place was always a shïthole, what difference will a telephone call make!".

Ultimately, for those of us that do the city break, turn a blind eye and take no responsibility, this is an issue of our own making .

Interesting post. I used to work night shifts at a bakery and as you've mentioned I'd see the city centre closes getting hosed down on regular basis on my way home.

Think you're also right about the vast increase in takeaway food outlets/mini supermarkets and the resultant packaging which fills the bins to overflowing. Take a walk down the Bridges and scavenging seagulls have pretty much colonised the place.

Further afield, the explosion in dog ownership coupled with fewer bin collections sees park bins quickly overflowing with poo bags. Great that the majority of owners are responsible but the sight of bags piled on top of already full bins ain't pleasant for anyone, including the refuse collectors who have to deal with it.

[WestStandWillie]

Edinburgh is looking so run down in a lot of places.

Princes Street is a disgrace, full of tat shops and money laundering businesses which seem to get ignored.

Graffiti just looks tacky. There's a guy in Portobello who is going around removing graffiti from bus stops and junction boxes but they'll likely just become a blank canvas.

People who throw litter on the street or fly tip are ****bags.

Mind set of modern society. They have a "do what they want" mentality. Challenge them and you end up appearing on social media for likes.

[Hibspur]

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Tags are a graffiti ‘artiste’s’ name, or signature. Its not a gang thing, and its not an exclusively Edinburgh thing either, it’s borrowed from US hiphop culture, now global, have you been to Paris or Rome and seen all the graffiti there?

If you say so. It was the girl behind the bar at Doctor's who told us they're plagued by it and that it was 'gangs of neds'. Whatever, it would be a stretch to describe the mess sprayed across the doors around there as 'art'.

[DH1875]

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If you say so. It was the girl behind the bar at Doctor's who told us they're plagued by it and that it was 'gangs of neds'. Whatever, it would be a stretch to describe the mess sprayed across the doors around there as 'art'.

Ever been to Barcelona? It's everywhere.

[He's here!]

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I could write my thoughts on this all day but just don't have the energy as my ramblings won't fix one iota.

But, the issue, in my opinion, is simply two things. The nature of the people and the pressures on resources.

The dynamic of the make-up of the city has changed a lot in the last 30 years.
We've always been a tourist city but with the advent of cheap online breaks coupled with the Insta 24hr getaway this brings a lot more folk in to the city and this brings a massive amount of single use disposable packaging amongst other things. In the immediate environs of the City Centre, the bins are full to overflowing.
This also leads to higher transient numbers of city dwellers. It's easier to disrespect a place if you fly out on Monday.
It has been argued elsewhere that those who rent don't tend to have the same "community investment" as owner-occupiers.

This brings us to resources, our council (like every other) is stretched to breaking.
30 years ago there were guys out with their "dust carts", every inch of public grass was regularly mowed and the vennels like Fleshmarket Close and the Scotsman Steps were hosed down, top to bottom, 6 days a week.
Today, the council has a hit squad of a couple of guys in one motor that drive around all day targeting the overflowing bins (city centre only) but that's akin to painting the Forth Bridge. Not all grass fields or verges are maintained as regular. Generally only the sports pitches when in season and other areas left to "wild seed" for biodiversity and I genuinely can't remember the last time the city closes were hosed down to flush out the filth.
Where we once had general routine maintenance, we're now relying on individual issues (gulleys/bins/weeds/etc) being reported online/social media and the council targets in response. But this can result in an imbalanced approach, the "squeaky wheel" scenario whereby some areas will be highly targeted due to the noise created, but then in other place residents feel it's not "their job" to report leading to a decline in the immediate amenity which spirals to "the place was always a shïthole, what difference will a telephone call make!".

Ultimately, for those of us that do the city break, turn a blind eye and take no responsibility, this is an issue of our own making .

I agree with a lot of what you say.

[Hibspur]

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Ever been to Barcelona? It's everywhere.

Not for many years. But compared to the scale of Barcelona, Paris, NYC etc Edinburgh's a wee village so I don't think the comparison stacks up.

That aside, just because graffiti's common elsewhere shouldn't mean residents should just accept their stair doors being spray painted as a fact of life, hip hop 'culture' or not. It's moronic, selfish behaviour pure and simple.

[hibsbollah]

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Not for many years. But compared to the scale of Barcelona, Paris, NYC etc Edinburgh's a wee village so I don't think the comparison stacks up.

That aside, just because graffiti's common elsewhere shouldn't mean residents should just accept their stair doors being spray painted as a fact of life, hip hop 'culture' or not. It's moronic, selfish behaviour pure and simple.

Has anyone been saying graffiti is a good thing?

[superfurryhibby]

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Not for many years. But compared to the scale of Barcelona, Paris, NYC etc Edinburgh's a wee village so I don't think the comparison stacks up.

That aside, just because graffiti's common elsewhere shouldn't mean residents should just accept their stair doors being spray painted as a fact of life, hip hop 'culture' or not. It's moronic, selfish behaviour pure and simple.

I travel regularly to Terrassa and Viladecavalls in Spain. Terrassa, a city of c 180,000 people, is covered in graffiti, doors, shop shutters, bridges, bins...it's everywhere. Even in Vila, a small town, 8,000 folk, graffiti is ever present. I suspect it's the same everywhere.

In Edinburgh, residents are a moot point. The prevalence of so many key safes around the city centre tells me that many tenement flats are used for short term holiday lets. Absentee landlords are not so invested in the external fabric of their buildings. Even then, you could paint the doors, but they'll be tagged and graffitied within the week.

[CropleyWasGod]

I have always liked the idea of "open spaces" for graffiti artists.... and that last word is used deliberately. Some graffiti art is stunning in its creativity and execution. (which opens up the whole debate about "what is art?")

There used to be one near Bristo Square, where people could exercise their craft, without fear of being lifted. From time to time, it would be wiped clean, so that people could start again.

I am not sure if it is there any more, or if there are others like it.

The argument against that, of course, is that a lot of tagging is done (and I know I'm showing my prejudices here ) by people who want to be the rebel, and have no interest in being "in the system".

[Pretty Boy]

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I have always liked the idea of "open spaces" for graffiti artists.... and that last word is used deliberately. Some graffiti art is stunning in its creativity and execution. (which opens up the whole debate about "what is art?")

There used to be one near Bristo Square, where people could exercise their craft, without fear of being lifted. From time to time, it would be wiped clean, so that people could start again.

I am not sure if it is there any more, or if there are others like it.

The argument against that, of course, is that a lot of tagging is done (and I know I'm showing my prejudices here ) by people who want to be the rebel, and have no interest in being "in the system".

I think the tunnel on the Innocent Railway might be one. It's certainly unofficially the case anyway as it's full of graffiti then the wall will be sprayed black in places again before the graffiti is replaced.

I think it must be the B team so to speak who operate there though as it's mostly pretty crap. I like graffiti if it's done well and the stuff there frankly isn't

[Smartie]

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I have always liked the idea of "open spaces" for graffiti artists.... and that last word is used deliberately. Some graffiti art is stunning in its creativity and execution. (which opens up the whole debate about "what is art?")

There used to be one near Bristo Square, where people could exercise their craft, without fear of being lifted. From time to time, it would be wiped clean, so that people could start again.

I am not sure if it is there any more, or if there are others like it.

The argument against that, of course, is that a lot of tagging is done (and I know I'm showing my prejudices here ) by people who want to be the rebel, and have no interest in being "in the system".

There's one up near Chancelot Mill.

I love it, it looks fantastic.

It's on my daughter's walk home from school. My partner took an absolutely beautiful video of the kids running to each other on the walk home the other day and sent it on to the grannies. The graffiti suggested to my mum that it was some sort of urban hell hole and she's seemingly been doing a fair bit of soul searching that her offspring are having to live in such an area. After dark I'd probably take the main road rather than walk along there these days but I'm along there a fair bit and absolutely love it.

Big difference between areas like this which are designated to look just like that and the unnecessary tagging which seems to be cropping up everywhere. I don't even mind that in most places, but I think we should be making a concerted effort to prevent it from popping up in certain areas.

It's the general cleanliness I have the biggest issue with. There shouldn't be any excuse for overflowing bins or the place being stinking. I'm on board with the general concept of wild plants and flowers (and don't really want the place to be splashed and controlled with chemicals) and there's probably a tolerable level of general graffiti.

Funnily enough though, since this thread started I've started to actively notice more street cleaners out and about doing their thing than I've been aware of seeing for years.

[greenlex]

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Paris, Barcelona, New York. Not just a Scottish issue. Although if you think Edinburgh is bad, Glasgow city centre is a total hole these days.

Not long back from Australia. I was in Perth a good few times and have to say it was immaculate. It may have been that I was lucky but it was spotless. I was eating Al fresco one afternoon in the Elizabeth Quay area and there was a council worker out polishing an aluminium bin. It can be done.

[overdrive]

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I have always liked the idea of "open spaces" for graffiti artists.... and that last word is used deliberately. Some graffiti art is stunning in its creativity and execution. (which opens up the whole debate about "what is art?")

There used to be one near Bristo Square, where people could exercise their craft, without fear of being lifted. From time to time, it would be wiped clean, so that people could start again.

I am not sure if it is there any more, or if there are others like it.

The argument against that, of course, is that a lot of tagging is done (and I know I'm showing my prejudices here ) by people who want to be the rebel, and have no interest in being "in the system".

There's an outstanding one in London next to Waterloo Station. Leake Street Tunnel.

[Hibspur]

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Not long back from Australia. I was in Perth a good few times and have to say it was immaculate. It may have been that I was lucky but it was spotless. I was eating Al fresco one afternoon in the Elizabeth Quay area and there was a council worker out polishing an aluminium bin. It can be done.

Ditto Abu Dhabi - and probably the UAE in general, although they have some specatular murals.

Mind you, I'm guessing you might be in danger of losing your hands if you were caught spray painting somebody's door there!

[Hibspur]

Another bugbear is things like this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy7y3q5xzro

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq8k5e0dxjwo

North Bridge I can just about understand the difficulties due to the age of the structure, but for the budgeted costs to quadruple is Scottish government ferry fiasco type incompetence.

As for the 'old' Missoni hotel, how can a much-vaunted structure build only in 2009 require half a decade of 'remedial works'?!

[HibbyDave]

Who is responsible for the city mess?
Look in the mirror.
If you see litter/ have weeds near your door etc Do something about it instead of hoping that “they will have to fix this mess”

If people start to own issues even in small ways then things will improve.

[hibsbollah]

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Who is responsible for the city mess?
Look in the mirror.
If you see litter/ have weeds near your door etc Do something about it instead of hoping that “they will have to fix this mess”

If people start to own issues even in small ways then things will improve.

We have touched on the ‘weeds’ issue in a different thread but we are being encouraged to leave wild plants in urban environments untouched because we are living through a biodiversity crisis. Native plants (‘weeds’!) are good for pollinators so councils are under pressure to change their maintenance regimes. And having less money every year doesnt help. Of course if its next to your property and its looking unsightly from your point of view thats ok, weed it out but there needs to be areas in a city where we let grass grow long . Thats why the landscape say in the Bruntsfield Links where theyve not mowed patches of grassland and new species have reestablished themselves.

That’s different issue from retail/restaurant waste and litter IMO.

[HibbyDave]

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We have touched on the ‘weeds’ issue in a different thread but we are being encouraged to leave wild plants in urban environments untouched because we are living through a biodiversity crisis. Native plants (‘weeds’!) are good for pollinators so councils are under pressure to change their maintenance regimes. And having less money every year doesnt help. Of course if its next to your property and its looking unsightly from your point of view thats ok, weed it out but there needs to be areas in a city where we let grass grow long . Thats why the landscape say in the Bruntsfield Links where theyve not mowed patches of grassland and new species have reestablished themselves.

That’s different issue from retail/restaurant waste and litter IMO.

I understand the biodiversity argument.
Litter, as you say is a different problem. Let’s start somewhere…… pick up a bit of litter everyday and put it into a bin.

Small steps.