Housing

[lapsedhibee]

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Yes it's also why we need immigration which also boosts reform. 46% of 16 to 34 year old males now live with their parents, due to lack of houses and high rents. That explains our plummeting birth rate. With an aging population if we want pensions to be paid in 30 years we need young people. You either get that by having kids or importing people.

... or by saving up for them.

[Stairway 2 7]

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... or by saving up for them.

It's obviously not just about pensions but the state pension bill alone is estimated to be £105 billion per year more by 2050. Who's paying that if we have less workers than now going forward

Its not just about pensions though, our population is aging massively and our birthrate is collapsing. A population top heavy is a recipe for utter disaster. Who pays the majority of the taxes and does all the labour.

I'm all for mass immigration but I'd like a higher birth rate too, more houses and cheaper childcare needed for that

[danhibees1875]

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Good news for those who think landlords are the problem. Stamp duty in Scotland for landlords has gone up to 11%. That should discourage plenty from entering the market.
Rents will rise though.


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Ouch. The 10% portion of LBTT last time I moved was quite a pain. Not sure where I stand on the landlord debate tbh - they shouldn't have an easy ride, but it should be a viable investment option.

[Ozyhibby]

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Ouch. The 10% portion of LBTT last time I moved was quite a pain. Not sure where I stand on the landlord debate tbh - they shouldn't have an easy ride, but it should be a viable investment option.

It’s only 3% if you only have one house. An extra 8% if you have rental properties.


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[Smartie]

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It's obviously not just about pensions but the state pension bill alone is estimated to be £105 billion per year more by 2050. Who's paying that if we have less workers than now going forward

Its not just about pensions though, our population is aging massively and our birthrate is collapsing. A population top heavy is a recipe for utter disaster. Who pays the majority of the taxes and does all the labour.

I'm all for mass immigration but I'd like a higher birth rate too, more houses and cheaper childcare needed for that

I really wish our politician would front up to this because if they did, we might end up with solutions to match the problems.

I’ve actually lost all hope in the UK and in particular Scotland. My life’s work is now to create mindset and opportunity for my kids so they can leave. There’s going to be nothing here for them.

[Ozyhibby]

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I really wish our politician would front up to this because if they did, we might end up with solutions to match the problems.

I’ve actually lost all hope in the UK and in particular Scotland. My life’s work is now to create mindset and opportunity for my kids so they can leave. There’s going to be nothing here for them.

Renting in Scotland will become the most expensive in the UK over the next couple of years. The amount of landlords will plummet. The rent controls and stamp duty will see to that.
The last lot of rent controls raised rents faster than they had for years. The new lot will do the same.
As landlords die or retire and sell up, they will not be replaced by new entrants as 11% tax is too high.
There will be more tenants chasing fewer properties.


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyv3ed33mqeo

This has to be a good thing, right?

[speedy_gonzales]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyv3ed33mqeo

This has to be a good thing, right?

If they do it right, definitely.
That part of Edinburgh, bordering the A8 corridor is getting hella busy with traffic. A significant %age is just traffic passing through but adding large housing estates like this and the ongoing West Craigs will only add to the issue, regardless of the trams, trains & buses on their doorstep.
Re the actual housing, if they stay away from the overpriced Cala boxes they built over at Cammo, it would be a start. £1mil for a 5 bed timber frame house, that ain't the answer to a housing crisis. Even the Miller & Wimpey 4 beds at West Craig's are going for £600+K.
I'm clearly no expert on the matter, but we need quality social housing. Why can't Edinburgh Council/SG not leverage the money to build their own housing rather than rely on the 10% kickback of cheap housing pushed to the periphery of any new build estate, as per the planning conditions.
Quality social housing would pay itself off within a generation, but it needs brave/bold politicians to make it happen.

[Moulin Yarns]

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If they do it right, definitely.
That part of Edinburgh, bordering the A8 corridor is getting hella busy with traffic. A significant %age is just traffic passing through but adding large housing estates like this and the ongoing West Craigs will only add to the issue, regardless of the trams, trains & buses on their doorstep.
Re the actual housing, if they stay away from the overpriced Cala boxes they built over at Cammo, it would be a start. £1mil for a 5 bed timber frame house, that ain't the answer to a housing crisis. Even the Miller & Wimpey 4 beds at West Craig's are going for £600+K.
I'm clearly no expert on the matter, but we need quality social housing. Why can't Edinburgh Council/SG not leverage the money to build their own housing rather than rely on the 10% kickback of cheap housing pushed to the periphery of any new build estate, as per the planning conditions.
Quality social housing would pay itself off within a generation, but it needs brave/bold politicians to make it happen.

The article

The development proposed by Crosswind Developments would include a mixture of one, two and three-bedroom homes, as well as office space, shops, a school, active travel routes and a green urban park.

Developers hope to create a "car-lite" neighbourhood with about 9km (five miles) of designated walking and cycling routes to "reflect the increased opportunities for those who live and work here".

[speedy_gonzales]

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The article

The development proposed by Crosswind Developments would include a mixture of one, two and three-bedroom homes, as well as office space, shops, a school, active travel routes and a green urban park.

Developers hope to create a "car-lite" neighbourhood with about 9km (five miles) of designated walking and cycling routes to "reflect the increased opportunities for those who live and work here".

Yeah, I'm fairly familiar with the pitch. West Craig's was pretty much the same. There are flatted developments but most properties are 4/5 bed with ample parking for cars (which I have zero issue with). That is not car lite and I haven't noticed an upturn in passenger numbers at Edinburgh Gateway tram or train stop.
I've seen some vocal opposition to this development, if the council do approve it they really need to ensure the units are more 1 or 2 bed than not.

[Andy Bee]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyv3ed33mqeo

This has to be a good thing, right?

There's loads of developments there. These look very similar to the Cruden Homes apartments just up from the new Cammo Estate. I know the article states 1000 affordable homes out of the 3000 but what constitutes an affordable home? The Cruden apartments start at £220k for a 1 bedroom.

[grunt]

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46% of 16 to 34 year old males now live with their parents, due to lack of houses and high rents.

What's the source of this statistic please?

[Andy Bee]

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If they do it right, definitely.
That part of Edinburgh, bordering the A8 corridor is getting hella busy with traffic. A significant %age is just traffic passing through but adding large housing estates like this and the ongoing West Craigs will only add to the issue, regardless of the trams, trains & buses on their doorstep.
Re the actual housing, if they stay away from the overpriced Cala boxes they built over at Cammo, it would be a start. £1mil for a 5 bed timber frame house, that ain't the answer to a housing crisis. Even the Miller & Wimpey 4 beds at West Craig's are going for £600+K.
I'm clearly no expert on the matter, but we need quality social housing. Why can't Edinburgh Council/SG not leverage the money to build their own housing rather than rely on the 10% kickback of cheap housing pushed to the periphery of any new build estate, as per the planning conditions.
Quality social housing would pay itself off within a generation, but it needs brave/bold politicians to make it happen.

That whole site was screaming for social housing, 1000 houses and a hotel built on the old packaging factory site, you can't get any more brown field than that.

[Stairway 2 7]

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What's the source of this statistic please?

The ONS

https://www.statista.com/statistics/285336/number-of-young-adults-living-with-their-parents-in-the-uk/#:~:text=In%202023%2C%2046%20percent%20of,with%202 2%20percent%20of%20women.

[speedy_gonzales]

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That whole site was screaming for social housing, 1000 houses and a hotel built on the old packaging factory site, you can't get any more brown field than that.

Can't disagree. The area has decent (in my opinion) public transport links. Statistically, folk in social housing rely more on public transport than private car use.
The cynic in me says this will end up like all other developments, overpriced private housing and and a little afterthought paid towards the "social housing" compliment.

[Stairway 2 7]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyv3ed33mqeo

This has to be a good thing, right?

It's good obviously as is all new projects but it isn't scratching the surface. There were 16,000 new homes started building last year but net migration was 50,000 in Scotland. With the average house in Scotland having 2.1 people in it, the house building isn't covering the immigration let alone fixing the housing emergency.

[Ozyhibby]

It’s very good news but should only be the start.
Speaking of the airport, we also desperately need a new terminal. The current one is no longer fit for purpose. It’s seems like there is no investment in the UK these days though.


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[superfurryhibby]

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It’s very good news but should only be the start.
Speaking of the airport, we also desperately need a new terminal. The current one is no longer fit for purpose. It’s seems like there is no investment in the UK these days though.


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How do you reconcile the environmental impact of airport expansion with your stance on creating a greener city?

[Ozyhibby]

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How do you reconcile the environmental impact of airport expansion with your stance on creating a greener city?

I accept that air travel is not going away and that in time technology will make it greener. I also think it brings huge benefits. I’m not against air travel. Also, Edinburgh needs a new terminal to deal with the current amount passengers.
I’m in favour of better roads outside cities as well. But inside, public transport should be encouraged.


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[Ozyhibby]

Lots of housing chat down south today. Hopefully it’s not just announcement and then no follow up as usual but also that we are thinking of copying it in Scotland.


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[grunt]

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The ONS

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...t%20of%20women.

LOL. You say it like it's big news, but fail to mention it's actually down on 2021 figures and has been consistently more than 40% for the last 30 years.

[Stairway 2 7]

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LOL. You say it like it's big news, but fail to mention it's actually down on 2021 figures and has been consistently more than 40% for the last 30 years.

The males 22 to 35 is up from 27% living at home to 33% in 1996, females is up from 15% to 22%. That will have a huge effect on birth rates

More than 1 in 10 (11.6%) of those aged 30 to 34 years were living with their parents in Census 2021, up from 8.6% just a decade earlier

Furthering the problem is the price. House price to earning ratio was 3 times the average wage in 96 it's now 7 times. Less spare income means less available income to have a child. Childcare costs have also massively increased above inflation in the last 30 years. It's death by a thousand cuts for young people. An aging population and a collapsing birth rate is a recipe for a failing nation

I know it's lol's for you who is fortunate to have a home but the trend is terrifying and will get worse the higher rents rise above the average wage.

2021 was also a covid year as ONS says in a caveat

[lapsedhibee]

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LOL. You say it like it's big news, but fail to mention it's actually down on 2021 figures and has been consistently more than 40% for the last 30 years.

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46% of 16 to 34 year old males now live with their parents, due to lack of houses and high rents.

Also, if 100% of 16 year old males lived with their parents, that would probably be something to celebrate.

[superfurryhibby]

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I accept that air travel is not going away and that in time technology will make it greener. I also think it brings huge benefits. I’m not against air travel. Also, Edinburgh needs a new terminal to deal with the current amount passengers.
I’m in favour of better roads outside cities as well. But inside, public transport should be encouraged.


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My green agenda is a bit more radical that that, but probably best to save my disagreement with every point made to the climate change thread

[Paul1642]

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I accept that air travel is not going away and that in time technology will make it greener. I also think it brings huge benefits. I’m not against air travel. Also, Edinburgh needs a new terminal to deal with the current amount passengers.
I’m in favour of better roads outside cities as well. But inside, public transport should be encouraged.


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We can’t afford to be left behind as a country / city in terms of infrastructure and services in the name of being green. Doing it as efficiently and as green a possibly is the way to go rather than simply not improving things that need improvement. Edinburgh airport falls far behind the airports of almost all capital cities including those in 3rd world counties. Tourism is one of our biggest industries and a fit for purpose airport is essential for that, as well as our own residents.

This also applies to the bypass and sheriff hall.

[Ozyhibby]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcas...=1000680159525

Yesterday’s Newsagents podcast on the housing reforms planned by Labour.


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[wookie70]

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Furthering the problem is the price. House price to earning ratio was 3 times the average wage in 96 it's now 7 times. Less spare income means less available income to have a child. Childcare costs have also massively increased above inflation in the last 30 years. It's death by a thousand cuts for young people. An aging population and a collapsing birth rate is a recipe for a failing nation

The UK economy has been underpinned by artificially high house prices. We are so dep in it that house prices are always protected. It may seem good if you have a nice appreciating asset but it is terrible for society, particularly the young. The best thing that can happen is wide scale CPOs and massive social housing builds which would deflate the rental market and hopefully start house prices falling. Politicians just don't think that far ahead and most would lose out so we will continue on the same path and society will continue to break down

[Moulin Yarns]

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The UK economy has been underpinned by artificially high house prices. We are so dep in it that house prices are always protected. It may seem good if you have a nice appreciating asset but it is terrible for society, particularly the young. The best thing that can happen is wide scale CPOs and massive social housing builds which would deflate the rental market and hopefully start house prices falling. Politicians just don't think that far ahead and most would lose out so we will continue on the same path and society will continue to break down

On CPOs, I read about an individual in Hastings who renovated an empty office block into flats with their own money and has since been given £1.5 million from the council to do more.

I know of three large department stores in the centre of Perth that have lain empty for a number of years crying out for something similar. Bound to be the same in most cities.

[Ozyhibby]

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On CPOs, I read about an individual in Hastings who renovated an empty office block into flats with their own money and has since been given £1.5 million from the council to do more.

I know of three large department stores in the centre of Perth that have lain empty for a number of years crying out for something similar. Bound to be the same in most cities.

Planning rules are different in England. Down there you don’t need permission to turn retail into housing. Think it’s called permitted development. We don’t have it in Scotland.


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[Pretty Boy]

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The males 22 to 35 is up from 27% living at home to 33% in 1996, females is up from 15% to 22%. That will have a huge effect on birth rates

More than 1 in 10 (11.6%) of those aged 30 to 34 years were living with their parents in Census 2021, up from 8.6% just a decade earlier

Furthering the problem is the price. House price to earning ratio was 3 times the average wage in 96 it's now 7 times. Less spare income means less available income to have a child. Childcare costs have also massively increased above inflation in the last 30 years. It's death by a thousand cuts for young people. An aging population and a collapsing birth rate is a recipe for a failing nation

I know it's lol's for you who is fortunate to have a home but the trend is terrifying and will get worse the higher rents rise above the average wage.

2021 was also a covid year as ONS says in a caveat

I don't even know why it's a debate tbh. The trends around home ownership, particularly among younger generations, are clear. It's stagnant or declining and that impacts a whole load of areas, the willingness and ability to have children among them. People will point to short term fluctuations but between 2016 and this year the drop in ownership was about 10%. For under 65s it's dropped from around 55% in 1995 to just under 40% in 2020. That's a clear and consistent direction of travel. Among 22-34 years olds ownership is 22.5%.

The graph between house prices and wages tells the story. Two lines going in very different directions, the old adage about 'we just worked harder and saved' doesn't hold true anymore. It's a crisis that's already happening but a bigger one is in waiting; huge chunks of a generation or 3 relying on rented accommodation in their retirement years in the decades to come. Someone will have to pay for that because pensions certainly won't.