Hamas attack on Israel

[Mon Dieu4]

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Perhaps this is just a case of Iran showing it has the ability to strike Israel, and that if it escalates further Iran will launch one without forewarning?

Or it could be the US showing it has intelligence assets at a high level within the Iranian military command structure and that this strike won't accomplish anything for Iran as Israel will just remove anything valuable from those sites

Pretty much that, Iran doesn't want direct conflict with the west, that's why they do it through Hamas, Hezbollah and the Huthis indirectly, they have to be seen to be doing something to not look weak, so firing off missiles that everyone knows about allows them to save face

Could still all really kick off at any point though

[Stairway 2 7]

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Perhaps this is just a case of Iran showing it has the ability to strike Israel, and that if it escalates further Iran will launch one without forewarning?

Or it could be the US showing it has intelligence assets at a high level within the Iranian military command structure and that this strike won't accomplish anything for Iran as Israel will just remove anything valuable from those sites

You could be right actually i could see it being the second one as in publicly saying we know what your planning. It could also be Iran making it obvious so Israel deals with it but they keep face with the public.

I don't think it's the first as only a few months ago Iran sent a huge barrage of ballistic missles and drones and they all got shot down.

[Hibs4185]

Iran are between a rock and a hard place.

On one hand they need to be big and mighty and retaliate but at the same time doing so, could be embarrassing if their best weapons get shot down again.

Personally I don’t think they will fire anything. Better to be thought of as being a restrained ‘super power’ rather than a faltering regime.

[Ozyhibby]

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Iran are between a rock and a hard place.

On one hand they need to be big and mighty and retaliate but at the same time doing so, could be embarrassing if their best weapons get shot down again.

Personally I don’t think they will fire anything. Better to be thought of as being a restrained ‘super power’ rather than a faltering regime.

I’m thinking they won’t get involved directly either. They know they are impotent when it comes to Isreal. And I don’t want an oil price surge helping Putin just now either.


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[Hibs4185]

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I’m thinking they won’t get involved directly either. They know they are impotent when it comes to Isreal. And I don’t want an oil price surge helping Putin just now either.


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Looks like we are wrong. 100 missiles launched from
Iran

[Ozyhibby]

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Looks like we are wrong. 100 missiles launched from
Iran

I know. I hit send and went downstairs and it was on CNN. Quality.

Thankfully the two countries are too far apart for anything more than lobbing missiles at each other.


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[grunt]

What a world we live in.

[Jim44]

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What a world we live in.

At my age, I used to fear for the future welfare of my children and grandchildren. It’s now getting to the stage where vast escalation of inter-continental/international warfare is more likely than not, in my lifetime, to lead to frequent global hostilities.

[Ozyhibby]

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At my age, I used to fear for the future welfare of my children and grandchildren. It’s now getting to the stage where vast escalation of inter-continental/international warfare is more likely than not, in my lifetime, to lead to frequent global hostilities.

Haven’t seen recent stats but the world has mostly got less violent over the years. 24 hour tv news just means we hear more about it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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Haven’t seen recent stats but the world has mostly got less violent over the years. 24 hour tv news just means we hear more about it.


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Not related but I'd read in 30 years violent attacks are down 83% and burglaries 86% in the uk, maybe one for the beer at football thread ha. Early 90s must have been radge but I'd think some people think it's worse now, due to every crime being reported whether that is on the news or locally through social media

[Paul1642]

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Not related but I'd read in 30 years violent attacks are down 83% and burglaries 86% in the uk, maybe one for the beer at football thread ha. Early 90s must have been radge but I'd think some people think it's worse now, due to every crime being reported whether that is on the news or locally through social media

Not to disbelieve your stats but find the violent attacks figure remarkable. I would have thought the state on London alone at the moment enough to skyrocket that figure. I wonder if even though the number is down, the severity might be up?

Edinburgh (and probably other Scottish city’s) on the hand i would figure the chances of being attacked by a stranger are now really low and I certainly feel safe even walking through the ‘rougher areas’ for the most part at any time of day or night.

There must have been a lot of houses getting screwed in the 90s but i suppose the nature of housebreakings is very different now. No more searching for cash or electronics. Just car keys and jewellery now.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Not to disbelieve your stats but find the violent attacks figure remarkable. I would have thought the state on London alone at the moment enough to skyrocket that figure. I wonder if even though the number is down, the severity might be up?

Edinburgh (and probably other Scottish city’s) on the hand i would figure the chances of being attacked by a stranger are now really low and I certainly feel safe even walking through the ‘rougher areas’ for the most part at any time of day or night.

There must have been a lot of houses getting screwed in the 90s but i suppose the nature of housebreakings is very different now. No more searching for cash or electronics. Just car keys and jewellery now.

It's all types of reported violent crimes uk wide. Hospital admissions in London for stabbings is pretty much flat over the last 15 years. The difference if someone was stabbed in London then no chance would we know about it as it wouldn't be national news worthy. Now though we'll get videos of it on twitter and possibly videos sent in group chats. London is a safe city but it's massive with a bigger pop than Scotland, people will get hurt but we will now hear about it. I guess the camera phones and cctv make it harder for nutters to get away with it or repeat it without consequence.
Off topic sorry

https://policinginsight.com/feature/analysis/most-crime-has-fallen-by-90-in-30-years-so-why-does-the-public-think-its-increased/

Most crime has fallen by 90% in 30 years – so why does the public think it’s increased?


Seventy-eight per cent of people in England and Wales think that crime has gone up in the last few years, according to the latest survey. But the data on actual crime shows the exact opposite

[Andy Bee]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...and-and-wales/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...imes-scotland/

[Ozyhibby]

Starmer calling for a ceasefire. I would have thought he would have more to say than that? A ceasefire would be a nice thing to have and there will always be people calling for it but would have thought the PM would realise that there is zero chance of that happening just now and that we might have heard more about how he thinks it could happen?


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[Stairway 2 7]

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https://www.statista.com/statistics/...and-and-wales/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...imes-scotland/

An older article on the difference in the recording and the three crime survey that shows the huge drop is better in their opinion, **** knows though.

https://theconversation.com/fact-check-has-violent-crime-gone-up-40915

First, police-recorded crime statistics: these include incidents that come to the attention of the police and are recorded by them as “crimes”. Second, the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW): this is a very large, rolling annual survey of sizeable sample of the population. Both sources have their problems, but it is generally the crime survey that is considered the more reliable indicator of the two.

The data from the crime survey is very clear. Violent crime has been in almost continual decline since the mid-1990s and current estimates suggest it is at its lowest level since the survey was instituted at the beginning of the 1980s.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Starmer calling for a ceasefire. I would have thought he would have more to say than that? A ceasefire would be a nice thing to have and there will always be people calling for it but would have thought the PM would realise that there is zero chance of that happening just now and that we might have heard more about how he thinks it could happen?


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Isn't it the same as when we called for a ceasefire in Gaza at the start of the year. It was never going to happen but it was us just saying what we wished for.

There is clearly going to be retaliation but Israel is saying only one death and minimal damage so how hard can they go.

[Mon Dieu4]

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Isn't it the same as when we called for a ceasefire in Gaza at the start of the year. It was never going to happen but it was us just saying what we wished for.

There is clearly going to be retaliation but Israel is saying only one death and minimal damage so how hard can they go.

They have said they will hit back at a time of their choosing, Iran have also come out and said that if Israel or the US hit any of their oil fields then they will take out the oil fields in Saudi, Kuwait, Bahrain etc

Mental times all because the US and UK haven't gone hard enough in getting Israel to calm the **** down with their warmongering and genocide

[Moulin Yarns]

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They have said they will hit back at a time of their choosing, Iran have also come out and said that if Israel or the US hit any of their oil fields then they will take out the oil fields in Saudi, Kuwait, Bahrain etc

Mental times all because the US and UK haven't gone hard enough in getting Israel to calm the **** down with their warmongering and genocide

I noticed 2 of my neighbours got oil delivered today, wonder if they know something you don't? 🤣

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/theinsiderpaper/status...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

Iran says they are done unless Isreal hits back. They don’t mean they are done funding Hezbollah to hit Isreal though.


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[Jim44]

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Haven’t seen recent stats but the world has mostly got less violent over the years. 24 hour tv news just means we hear more about it.


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Despite your reference to more extensive news coverage, I find it hard to agree with your premise that the world is less violent nowadays. Like you, I don’t have statistics but just gut feelings.
Ozyhibby, I admire your constant downplaying and optimistic view of international issues, such as the ongoing wars, Putin’s possible if not probable escalation of warmongering at an earth shattering level and the possible, to my mind likely, disastrous return of Trump to major politics and I would love to think you are correct, but at this moment in time I find the prospects for world peace and harmony depressing and worrying.

[Jones28]

UK and US troops were involved in shooting down the missiles fired at Israel, as if supplying them with the weapons they're launching at women and children wasn't involved enough we actually help with their Iron Dome or whatever it's called.

I don't want to see any lives lost on either side but at what point are we dropping the pretense that we aren't at war with whoever it is Israel wants to pick a fight with?

[Ozyhibby]

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UK and US troops were involved in shooting down the missiles fired at Israel, as if supplying them with the weapons they're launching at women and children wasn't involved enough we actually help with their Iron Dome or whatever it's called.

I don't want to see any lives lost on either side but at what point are we dropping the pretense that we aren't at war with whoever it is Israel wants to pick a fight with?

Isn’t it Iran picking a fight with Isreal? When it comes to Gaza and West Bank I’m firmly on the side of the Palestinians but Lebanon and Iran are firing rockets at Isreal.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

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Isn’t it Iran picking a fight with Isreal? When it comes to Gaza and West Bank I’m firmly on the side of the Palestinians but Lebanon and Iran are firing rockets at Isreal.


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why do you think they are doing it though? is it really as simple as 'just to pick a fight'?

the other thing to bear in mind is that Iran know fine well that their rockets aren't going to cause anything other than financial damage to Israel (though tbf, the rocket attacks would have been absolutely terrifying for those living in Israel)

[Jones28]

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Isn’t it Iran picking a fight with Isreal? When it comes to Gaza and West Bank I’m firmly on the side of the Palestinians but Lebanon and Iran are firing rockets at Isreal.


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Personally I think both sides are cultivating an environment in which War will be the only option.

Look as Isreals posturing since the missile attack - they are threatening retaliation despite zero casualties.

Why? They can swat missiles out the air and stick the two fingers up at Iran without having to retaliate.

I don't have any skin in the game other than wanting it all to stop because if it does kick off it will turn in to a proxy war between the West and the Russians which could lead to anything. Russia have a lot of skin in the game with Syria and Iran.

[AgentDaleCooper]

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UK and US troops were involved in shooting down the missiles fired at Israel, as if supplying them with the weapons they're launching at women and children wasn't involved enough we actually help with their Iron Dome or whatever it's called.

I don't want to see any lives lost on either side but at what point are we dropping the pretense that we aren't at war with whoever it is Israel wants to pick a fight with?

tbf, this is the one thing we actually SHOULD be helping with (and I'm glad we are) - an unfortunate side effect of it, however, is that it contributes to Israel being able to act with relative impunity towards its neighbours/colonised people.

the thing is though - we are the main reason Israel NEEDS an iron dome, because we very consciously and deliberately set it up to be, and i quote, 'a loyal little Ulster in the Middle East'. We betrayed the victims of the holocaust, and outsourced Europe's massive anti-semitism problem onto the Middle East. (I've only recently realised how bad this is, and actually started learning Yiddish in solidarity with my Jewish pals).

Israel is behaving as it always has - as a settler colonial power. This is how we built it, and how we have encouraged it to behave. Present hostilities are very significantly shaped by this, and the cold war (in terms of Iran).

This is the moral landscape of the present conflict in Israel. The 'save democracy' thing is absolute horse-**** propaganda, trying to rally support amongst Western Liberals. It's window dressing in terms of what's going on, and not even true if you ask a lot of Israelis, who would say that they are ruled by a fascist dictator in Bibi.

EDIT: just in case it seems from any of the above that I'm saying Israel shouldn't exist, I am absolutely not - I just think we deliberately shanked it to further our interests, and THIS is what needs fixing, as it is the root of Hamas, Hezbollah and all the rest.

[Ozyhibby]

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tbf, this is the one thing we actually SHOULD be helping with (and I'm glad we are) - an unfortunate side effect of it, however, is that it contributes to Israel being able to act with relative impunity towards its neighbours/colonised people.

the thing is though - we are the main reason Israel NEEDS an iron dome, because we very consciously and deliberately set it up to be, and i quote, 'a loyal little Ulster in the Middle East'. We betrayed the victims of the holocaust, and outsourced Europe's massive anti-semitism problem onto the Middle East. (I've only recently realised how bad this is, and actually started learning Yiddish in solidarity with my Jewish pals).

Israel is behaving as it always has - as a settler colonial power. This is how we built it, and how we have encouraged it to behave. Present hostilities are very significantly shaped by this, and the cold war (in terms of Iran).

This is the moral landscape of the present conflict in Israel. The 'save democracy' thing is absolute horse-**** propaganda, trying to rally support amongst Western Liberals. It's window dressing in terms of what's going on, and not even true if you ask a lot of Israelis, who would say that they are ruled by a fascist dictator in Bibi.

EDIT: just in case it seems from any of the above that I'm saying Israel shouldn't exist, I am absolutely not - I just think we deliberately shanked it to further our interests, and THIS is what needs fixing, as it is the root of Hamas, Hezbollah and all the rest.

I think your History is probably correct but doesn’t help us now. We need to find a way to a two state solution. All parties are going to have to give things up for that to happen.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

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I think your History is probably correct but doesn’t help us now. We need to find a way to a two state solution. All parties are going to have to give things up for that to happen.


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I agree, but the problem is that Hamas and their allies (and tbh anyone in the region bar Israel and to an extent Saudi Arabia) have absolutely no reason to trust the intentions of any of the big players in brokering such a deal. Palestine is supported by just about every country in the UN, save for the ones who actually have any say...who also happen to be the ones giving their oppressors all their weapons.

The other issue is simply what do Palestinians have left to compromise? They have barely anything left, yet the west continues to let Israel act without consequence in the West Bank. You can even book an AirBnB in the settlements, FFS.

The west needs to radically alter its approach and the way it supports Israel's existence. The only morally justifiable approach I can think of is for them to say "look, if you want protection against Iran, you need to get completely out of the West Bank and Gaza by date X", because THAT is the point at which 'compromise' can start to be meaningful, and you can start talking about getting rid of Hamas. Let's not forget, Bibi actually gave them financial support when they were being set up in the 80s, because he saw them (correctly) as a destabilising force.

I get the appeal of pragmatism, but in situations like this, at best all you're doing is kicking the can down the road and hoping the problem doesn't get any worse (which it always does). That's what we've done before, and IMO that's what set the stage for the attacks last year.

[Bristolhibby]

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Yeah I was in shock at how they pulled it off, setting up companies years in advanced. Probably the most successful spy operation ever. Horrible army's like the Nazis or the UK in India can have amazing military operations, doesn't make them not horrendous.

Operation Greif by the Nazis was amazing. Soldiers dressed in US uniforms flew in behind enemy lines and caused havoc. They started directing tanks convoys down wrong roads, destroyed ammunition dumps, switched road signs and cut electric and phone lines. When it was uncovered the US had to use a lot of men to set up road blocks all over. The more famous operation mincemeat was cool too

Yet they knew nothing about October 7th? Beggars belief.

Or they let October 7th happen to give them pretext to flatten Gaza and destroy Hamas and Hezbolla.

J

[Bristolhibby]

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UK and US troops were involved in shooting down the missiles fired at Israel, as if supplying them with the weapons they're launching at women and children wasn't involved enough we actually help with their Iron Dome or whatever it's called.

I don't want to see any lives lost on either side but at what point are we dropping the pretense that we aren't at war with whoever it is Israel wants to pick a fight with?

No way we helped with Iron Dome. The opposite is true. Our Sky Sabre air defence system has something similar to the Israeli Iron Dome system and is provided by the Israelis to the British Army.

My guess is the U.K. Provided some real time intel on missiles over Syria. (Remember we are still flying and bombing over there vs Deash).

J

[Pretty Boy]

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Yet they knew nothing about October 7th? Beggars belief.

Or they let October 7th happen to give them pretext to flatten Gaza and destroy Hamas and Hezbolla.

J

Netanyahu has made a career out of bolstering Hamas and outright encouraging financing of them, particularly from Qatar. There is an irony that this was something of a scandal in Israel itself a couple of years ago, with the Haaretz newspaper doing some serious investigative journalism, but is largely ignored or perhaps unknown in the west. The New York Times ran a piece on it last year in the wake off the October 7th attacks and were promptly set upon by the Anti Defamation League and other Israeli lobbyists for being 'anti Semitic'. Quite how uncovering some pretty shady political shenanigans by a fascist warmonger is anti Semitic is anyone's guess but it's a cry that generally works in silencing anyone who gets a bit too critical of the Israeli government, particularly the incumbent one.