Electric Vehicles - A rant.

[Jones28]

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Really interesting thread to read as we’re thinking of taking the plunge.

Whenever my wife and I buy a new car, we pay in full and then chuck £50 each a month in to an account ready for the next one. We have a Citroen C1 so extremely economical on fuel, but my 35 mile round trip to crawl to work can cost anything up to £140 a month in fuel. So that’s £240 a month straight away, and our local dealer has got a deal on a 100% electric Citroen eC4 for £280 a month.

I know there’s going to be the outlay for the charger on our drive plus the extra electric costs, but to end up with a brand new car for an extra £40 a month extra seems almost too good to be true?

If it’s at all feasible for you I’d strongly consider looking at solar panels as well.

Home Energy Scotland - I think it’s the energy saving trust in England - have an interest free loan scheme that we took advantage of for ours and next time we change a car we will be looking at electric.

[matty_f]

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I agree with that. Its just a matter of changing the way you think about things and planning things in advance. Going electric has been a net stress reducer, for me anyway.

I had to hand my electric car back when I left my old job and so am on a petrol one at the moment, I'll be getting another electric on as soon as I can.

[hibsbollah]

It may seem like a small point but im eating less junk food too; something about those petrol station shops just made me want to buy overpriced crisps and chocolate when i wasnt even hungry, paprika Sensations got me everytime

[patch1875]

Wasn’t there a report suggesting people are eating more junk food at service stations because they were hanging about waiting on the car charging.

[Hibbyradge]

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Wasn’t there a report suggesting people are eating more junk food at service stations because they were hanging about waiting on the car charging.

No, there wasn't.

[Jones28]

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Wasn’t there a report suggesting people are eating more junk food at service stations because they were hanging about waiting on the car charging.

I've done a few long journeys on company time in an electric car and can confirm that yes, they are! The bins around the Tesla chargers I was using were stuffed with coffee cups and KFC rubbish.

[Hibbyradge]

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I've done a few long journeys on company time in an electric car and can confirm that yes, they are! The bins around the Tesla chargers I was using were stuffed with coffee cups and KFC rubbish.

I think the phrase, "correlation does not imply causation" applies here.

How many electric cars had used the chargers?

When were the bins last emptied?

How many people were in each car?

How many were adults?

Was the KFC for EV drivers only?

If not, how many people in ICE vehicles visited the KFC?

How many ate in the "restaurant"?

What are the bins like at other KFC outlets?

Exactly how bored am I?

[nonshinyfinish]

Whether it's true or not (I've no idea), it's not really comparable to hibsbollah's petrol station comment – with a petrol car you visit a petrol station every time you fill up. A typical EV driver will only charge at a service station on occasional long trips.

[Jones28]

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I think the phrase, "correlation does not imply causation" applies here.

How many electric cars had used the chargers?

When were the bins last emptied?

How many people were in each car?

How many were adults?

Was the KFC for EV drivers only?

If not, how many people in ICE vehicles visited the KFC?

How many ate in the "restaurant"?

What are the bins like at other KFC outlets?

Exactly how bored am I?

To all of the above: Dunno.

With the exception of the last one: not bored enough to go to Charnock Richard Services - the place hope goes to die - and check for yourself.

[Hibbyradge]

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To all of the above: Dunno.

With the exception of the last one: not bored enough to go to Charnock Richard Services - the place hope goes to die - and check for yourself.

I've been! Personally, I've always hated Southwaite services, but I have a soft spot for Knutsford Service Station because of the Ike and Tina Turner connection.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I've been! Personally, I've always hated Southwaite services, but I have a soft spot for Knutsford Service Station because of the Ike and Tina Turner connection.

The westmorland service stations are outstanding!!! Plenty of EV charging points apart from the southbound Tebay.

[Moulin Yarns]

A tip for anyone in the vicinity of the commonwealth pool for up to 4 hours. FREE parking at Pollock Hall of residence and 7x 22kwh double point chargers 45p per unit. I was at Summerhall today and was very happy with the location and convenience.

[hibsbollah]

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-great-britain

Big increase in coverage over the last year, Edinburgh comes out very well as does Scotland compared to the rest of the UK.

[Cooshed Kid]

Not really wishing to challenge the orthodoxy here with my first ever post, but having no range anxiety because of an adequate number of chargers for EVs is all well and good but what about the electricity generation and storage required to provide power to those chargers when you want it? Are you convinced it will be there when you need it?

As the percentage of EVs on the roads increases so does the overall demand for electricity. In some parts of the world (e.g. California, I believe) they are already anticipating issues and threats have been made that EV charging may be limited to certain hours of the day so as not to deny other consumers the electricity they need when the grid is under pressure. Presumably, they'd find a way of switching off any home chargers too. It's all "smart" after all, i.e designed to outsmart us.

It wouldn't be my sole reason for not buying an EV, but I think if I were living in Norway with its abundant hydroelectric power I'd have more confidence in the underlying infrastructure than in the UK. Having just the one source of power for a motor vehicle isn't a brilliant idea IMHO. I'd rather go full ICE, proper petrol-electric hybrid like the Prius or PHEV. At least you then have either full or partial petrol/diesel power without relying entirely on the grid.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Not really wishing to challenge the orthodoxy here with my first ever post, but having no range anxiety because of an adequate number of chargers for EVs is all well and good but what about the electricity generation and storage required to provide power to those chargers when you want it? Are you convinced it will be there when you need it?

As the percentage of EVs on the roads increases so does the overall demand for electricity. In some parts of the world (e.g. California, I believe) they are already anticipating issues and threats have been made that EV charging may be limited to certain hours of the day so as not to deny other consumers the electricity they need when the grid is under pressure. Presumably, they'd find a way of switching off any home chargers too. It's all "smart" after all, i.e designed to outsmart us.

It wouldn't be my sole reason for not buying an EV, but I think if I were living in Norway with its abundant hydroelectric power I'd have more confidence in the underlying infrastructure than in the UK. Having just the one source of power for a motor vehicle isn't a brilliant idea IMHO. I'd rather go full ICE, proper petrol-electric hybrid like the Prius or PHEV. At least you then have either full or partial petrol/diesel power without relying entirely on the grid.

There are already things that help to ensure adequate supply, almost all home charging is done overnight on a cheaper tariff and there are chargers at motorway service stations that cost more at peak time.

[Keith_M]

This is a recent article on how environmentally friendly Electric Vehicle batteries actually are.

https://www.greencars.com/greencars-...f-ev-batteries


Before anybody take this the wrong way, I'm not backing the oil industry or claiming that we don't need to look for better alternatives, I'm just not 100% convinced that we've found a truly environmentally friendly alternative... at least not yet.

[Stairway 2 7]

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This is a recent article on how environmentally friendly Electric Vehicle batteries actually are.

https://www.greencars.com/greencars-...f-ev-batteries


Before anybody take this the wrong way, I'm not backing the oil industry or claiming that we don't need to look for better alternatives, I'm just not 100% convinced that we've found a truly environmentally friendly alternative... at least not yet.

I don't think anyone says its environmentally friendly, the devastation mines cause is brutal. Some of the electricity to fill the cars is from fossil fuels too. I think the fact is it's infinitely better than what we are doing now which is extracting oil and gas and burning it into the atmosphere.

Global warming is the biggest danger facing the world and electric cars can help achieve net zero better than just about any single change. Like nuclear its not perfect and hopefully the future will give us better alternatives but it's a world better than burning fossil fuels

[McSwanky]

Is it just me, or are the used EV prices falling enormously at the moment? We're looking to replace our reliable old 2010 Renault Clio (yes, reliable and Renault in the same sentence) and I was surprised to find that some 3 year old EVs are just about in our price range now....

I'm guessing it's just due to saturation of the market, and new prices dropping? Or am I missing something?

Anyone got any thoughts on a decent, cheapish 3 year old EV? A pal just bought a used Ioniq (38kwh) and is delighted with it...

[Paulie Walnuts]

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Is it just me, or are the used EV prices falling enormously at the moment? We're looking to replace our reliable old 2010 Renault Clio (yes, reliable and Renault in the same sentence) and I was surprised to find that some 3 year old EVs are just about in our price range now....

I'm guessing it's just due to saturation of the market, and new prices dropping? Or am I missing something?

Anyone got any thoughts on a decent, cheapish 3 year old EV? A pal just bought a used Ioniq (38kwh) and is delighted with it...

I bought a 2020 Mini Cooper SE Level 3 which is the highest spec version. Leather heated seats, Harman Kardon sound system, pan sunroof etc. think I paid £17900 and it had just short of 10k miles.

The big downsides are that it’s undoubtedly a small car (although likely not THAT much smaller than a clio) and the range is 130 miles or so. But other than that it’s an absolutely excellent car and I really can’t fault anything about it. I only use it for city driving and do about 6k miles a year so the range is no issue for me. Costs about £4 to fully charge it at Gogarburn (i don’t have a home charger but I’d imagine it’d be similar at home) and about £10 at a public charging point.

Driving about town I find it difficult to drop below 4.5 miles per kw/h and rarely go above 5 miles per kw/h.

If you’re not bothered for it being absolutely top of the line, you can get the level 1 or level 2 versions for about 14-15k.

[nonshinyfinish]

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Is it just me, or are the used EV prices falling enormously at the moment? We're looking to replace our reliable old 2010 Renault Clio (yes, reliable and Renault in the same sentence) and I was surprised to find that some 3 year old EVs are just about in our price range now....

I'm guessing it's just due to saturation of the market, and new prices dropping? Or am I missing something?

Anyone got any thoughts on a decent, cheapish 3 year old EV? A pal just bought a used Ioniq (38kwh) and is delighted with it...

Would it be your only car? If so, how often do you drive a long way?

The post above describes the ideal situation for a cheaper EV with fairly modest range – a runabout that never does long journeys.

An occasional long journey in (say) a 150-mile range EV would be doable although annoying, but you wouldn't want to do it a lot. I don't know what's currently out there in your price range, but your intended use of the car will determine what represents a usable range for you.

[McSwanky]

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Would it be your only car? If so, how often do you drive a long way?

The post above describes the ideal situation for a cheaper EV with fairly modest range – a runabout that never does long journeys.

An occasional long journey in (say) a 150-mile range EV would be doable although annoying, but you wouldn't want to do it a lot. I don't know what's currently out there in your price range, but your intended use of the car will determine what represents a usable range for you.

We have another car (petrol Ibiza) and although it's small as well, it does us ok for longer journeys.

In general, journeys are local, but I'd be wanting to use the EV for the odd Glasgow trip or the likes. Longer journeys I'd weigh up once I had a feel for the EV with charge speeds etc. Range wise I'd say as long as I could get to Glasgow and back on a full charge on a 'bad' day, that would cover 95% of my journeys.

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[Stairway 2 7]

I think the MGs are a bargain can get the MG5 estate 250 miles range, 20k miles, 2 years old for under £15k
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...o=2022&fromsra

Or the suv ZS 200 mile range, 7k miles, 2 year old for about the same. Obviously cheaper with more miles or a year or two older
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...o=2022&fromsra

[Moulin Yarns]

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We have another car (petrol Ibiza) and although it's small as well, it does us ok for longer journeys.

In general, journeys are local, but I'd be wanting to use the EV for the odd Glasgow trip or the likes. Longer journeys I'd weigh up once I had a feel for the EV with charge speeds etc. Range wise I'd say as long as I could get to Glasgow and back on a full charge on a 'bad' day, that would cover 95% of my journeys.

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I would look at the official range and assume you will get 75% of that for a guide to actual range on a used car, you don't know how it was driven before. If you find you do better then it's a bonus.

[Moulin Yarns]

The different charging points and their apps.

Back from a holiday that took in Yorkshire, the cotswolds and the lake district. I now have 9 different charging apps on my phone.

What is wrong with making them all contactless payments??

On the plus side, the huge numbers of charging points everywhere.

[LancashireHibby]

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The different charging points and their apps.

Back from a holiday that took in Yorkshire, the cotswolds and the lake district. I now have 9 different charging apps on my phone.

What is wrong with making them all contactless payments??

On the plus side, the huge numbers of charging points everywhere.

Think I’m up to 12 different ones now. Still getting used to the public ones and make sure I’m only adding the bare minimum to get me home given it’s more than 10 times the cost of a home charge.

Week before last was the first where I’d done a full week just pure commuting on one charge (200ish miles over the five days) and it cost me £3.17 to do a full charge. Absolute witchcraft.