Hibs Women

[superfurryhibby]

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The vast majority are on full time contracts. But pay wise you’d get more working in macdonalds. Even at rangers etc the money isn’t great. So any girl wanting to make a living from it really needs to be getting down south if they are good enough. The other post making comparisons to boys football just isn’t worth going in to again. It’s women’s football not men’s / boys whatever. Zero point making a comparison. It’s does have to start living within its own means though. The team needs to bring in the sponsorship to afford to pay them more. Without that it’s just not going to improve. There are no more people watching the games at Meadowbank, that used to watch when they played out in Broxburn. Move the games to Easter rd whenever possible. Create a package for current STs. Free kids entry up to 18.

Needs a lot of change if it’s not going to drift back to amateur level imo.

Our women teams pay must surely be minimum wage, so why would they get paid less than people working in MacDonalds?

Pretty Boy asked the question around why some men scoff at women's football. I made the point that the standards of the other sports he mentioned have huge gulfs between elite female competitors and club level male competitors, hence why I said that doesn't apply to the women's game (making the well known comparison about how it compares in terms of quality to youth age male football) and why this might be a factor around men might find the idea of so much commercial investment in the women's game quite risible?

I wouldn't want to see our pitch being used more than necessary, why should the women's team play on it and not every other age group team etc.

[The Modfather]

When is the next woman’s team fixture and where do they play? My daughter hasn’t shown any interest in football, which is fine, but seemed open to trying the ladies team so hoped to take her to a game this summer.

Had a quick Look online but suspect, like the men’s team, there’s no pre season fixtures announced yet.

[WeAreHibs]

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The vast majority are on full time contracts. But pay wise you’d get more working in macdonalds. Even at rangers etc the money isn’t great. So any girl wanting to make a living from it really needs to be getting down south if they are good enough. The other post making comparisons to boys football just isn’t worth going in to again. It’s women’s football not men’s / boys whatever. Zero point making a comparison. It’s does have to start living within its own means though. The team needs to bring in the sponsorship to afford to pay them more. Without that it’s just not going to improve. There are no more people watching the games at Meadowbank, that used to watch when they played out in Broxburn. Move the games to Easter rd whenever possible. Create a package for current STs. Free kids entry up to 18.

Needs a lot of change if it’s not going to drift back to amateur level imo.

Perhaps amateur level is where it should be until it becomes a sustainable no brainer. A bit of honest reality is needed regarding the ladies game rather than wishful thinking and to appease a very small percentage of the clubs support.

[He's here!]

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It's an interesting debate.

I'm all for women playing football, at any level. However, I don't understand why Hibs have a full time women's team. Why is it necessary? I can see that the big English teams see some commercial benefit and that there is a market to exploit, but that surely isn't the case up here.

I'm all for funding participation, think's it's a healthy area for community investment, but fail to see the need for professional players and a management team etc. Maybe this is part of the scepticism about women's football?

In terms of bitterness or patronising attitudes, who knows. Maybe folk know that the standard is very low and that even an elite women's side will be beaten by under 16 juvenile laddies side. With tennis or swimming for example, I guess that elite women still compete at a level way above decent male club level. Not so sure how boxing levels would translate across gender though.

Do elite women in the sports you mention really compete way above men at a lower level? Women still play best of three sets at tennis rather than five, even at the top level for example.

'They're not as good as men' seems seems a lazy argument with which to put down women's football. Women's sport is a separate entity to men's.

[McD]

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The vast majority are on full time contracts. But pay wise you’d get more working in macdonalds. Even at rangers etc the money isn’t great. So any girl wanting to make a living from it really needs to be getting down south if they are good enough. The other post making comparisons to boys football just isn’t worth going in to again. It’s women’s football not men’s / boys whatever. Zero point making a comparison. It’s does have to start living within its own means though. The team needs to bring in the sponsorship to afford to pay them more. Without that it’s just not going to improve. There are no more people watching the games at Meadowbank, that used to watch when they played out in Broxburn. Move the games to Easter rd whenever possible. Create a package for current STs. Free kids entry up to 18.

Needs a lot of change if it’s not going to drift back to amateur level imo.

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I'm happy to stand corrected on that, I thought we had full time players and coaching staff.

Seems it was me that was off mate appreciate the info Brightside 😊

[Malthibby]

'I wouldn't want to see our pitch being used more than necessary, why should the women's team play on it and not every other age group team etc.' QUOTE

Afraid I do think this is lazy - it's the women's team, nothing to do with age group teams etc.
If the SFA hadn't been so determined to ban women's football many years ago it might already be operating at a higher level
in Scotland - that was a decision by stupid men who thought women should be wives and mothers and little else.
We're going to struggle to match the English Women's game, but then our men's game doesn't match the English version either
and that's not been a reason for giving up.
Half the population is female, the idea that the women's game shouldn't be supported is mental.
I see far more women at matches than was the case in the 1970, 1980, 1990, having a viable women's team
isn't just an obvious thing to support, it has an a positive effect generally and means the club feels and is more welcoming.
I remember the 'olden days' of standing on terraces surrounded by drunks pxssing in beer cans (on a good day), bile pouring out too many throats;
I wouldn't want that sad macho environment back again.
Women are (largely, always exceptions) civilising and football is the better for their increasing presence and that has to include properly
funded women's teams.

[He's here!]

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'I wouldn't want to see our pitch being used more than necessary, why should the women's team play on it and not every other age group team etc.' QUOTE

Afraid I do think this is lazy - it's the women's team, nothing to do with age group teams etc.
If the SFA hadn't been so determined to ban women's football many years ago it might already be operating at a higher level
in Scotland - that was a decision by stupid men who thought women should be wives and mothers and little else.
We're going to struggle to match the English Women's game, but then our men's game doesn't match the English version either
and that's not been a reason for giving up.
Half the population is female, the idea that the women's game shouldn't be supported is mental.
I see far more women at matches than was the case in the 1970, 1980, 1990, having a viable women's team
isn't just an obvious thing to support, it has an a positive effect generally and means the club feels and is more welcoming.
I remember the 'olden days' of standing on terraces surrounded by drunks pxssing in beer cans (on a good day), bile pouring out too many throats;
I wouldn't want that sad macho environment back again.
Women are (largely, always exceptions) civilising and football is the better for their increasing presence and that has to include properly
funded women's teams.

These are good points.

You just need to see how many girls teams are training at weekends these days to understand the potential of the women's game. It's a while since my kids were at primary school but I remember Saturday morning football for girls getting introduced for the first time back then and now they have as many teams playing as the boys.

As you mention earlier in your post the powers that be in Scotland do appear to be especially closed-minded when it comes to embracing the women's game.

[Brightside]

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Did you not tell me that crowds would rise in the woman's game, and the mens game would also see growth in it's attendance with the improvement of the woman's game?

And when you say it needs a lot of change, you really mean money dont you?

Other countries the crowds are rocketing. The SFA are paying the game lip service and its struggling because of that. Far too much time spent encouraging "growing" the game at the recreational level and no time and effort spent on the elite side of the game. Scottish top teams have stagnated as has the national teams, and as a nation they are now being left behind.

[Brightside]

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Our women teams pay must surely be minimum wage, so why would they get paid less than people working in MacDonalds?

Pretty Boy asked the question around why some men scoff at women's football. I made the point that the standards of the other sports he mentioned have huge gulfs between elite female competitors and club level male competitors, hence why I said that doesn't apply to the women's game (making the well known comparison about how it compares in terms of quality to youth age male football) and why this might be a factor around men might find the idea of so much commercial investment in the women's game quite risible?

I wouldn't want to see our pitch being used more than necessary, why should the women's team play on it and not every other age group team etc.

Macdonalds pay minimum wage and above. I don't think there is any suggestion that the Hibs Women aren't on more than minimum wage. But in reality its a paltry figure and any girl playing pro football in Scotland isn't making a decent living from it.

[WeAreHibs]

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Macdonalds pay minimum wage and above. I don't think there is any suggestion that the Hibs Women aren't on more than minimum wage. But in reality its a paltry figure and any girl playing pro football in Scotland isn't making a decent living from it.

Isn't that part of the problem though? Where does the money come from to pay a decent wage if they're not generating it? I'm all for other teams under the club banner but they have to make business sense in the same way that lower league teams need to. Most of those lower teams are struggling with greater attendances! You can't give away free tickets and claim there was X amount of a crowd when the reality is that barely a couple of hundred paid at the gate.

[PHeffernan]

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Other countries the crowds are rocketing. The SFA are paying the game lip service and its struggling because of that. Far too much time spent encouraging "growing" the game at the recreational level and no time and effort spent on the elite side of the game. Scottish top teams have stagnated as has the national teams, and as a nation they are now being left behind.

If we take England as an example, their population is 13 times the size of Scotland and they have mega rich clubs who have chucked money at the womens game as they did the mens. Sadly a small nation of 5.5 million and modest clubs is never going to be able to do the same.
Rantic are starting to push ahead now, Glasgow City have been detached for the first time and will fall slowly towards Hearts who are improving season on season but Hibs are floundering after losing 4 good players including the best player in the league outside of Rantic. Beyond those 5 clubs there is nothing.

I have no idea of Hibs womens current annual budget and the levels of their income streams.
However, for me the best way to get Hibs womens team money and larger crowds would be to give them 20 quid from each season ticket sold. That would give them circa 230k plus whatever sponsorship and commercial deals they can do themselves. Each season ticket holder would then be entitled to attend all Hibs womens home games. That would boost crowds and matchday revenue substantially. Larger crowds would also attract more commercial sponsors.

[Forza Fred]

I think it’s only a matter of time in Scotland before women’s football really takes off.

Attitudes are a bit harder to change in Scotland maybe, but once young girls can relate to ‘heroes’ on the park, crowd numbers…at the elite level anyway, will soar.

Just give ‘em something to believe in and aspire to.

Sorry to keep going on about the Matildas, but they really ARE a case study of what to do right, and Scotland could do well to learn from them.

They just played two ‘meaningless’ friendlies……one in Adelaide and one in Sydney 4 days apart and attracted over 130,000 spectators combined.

Their World Cup game against France last year is the most watched tv event EVER in the history of television.

The scenes going to, coming from and attending one of their games come across more like the vibe of a Taylor Swift concert than that of a tribal fitba match.

The societal benefits are enormous too….a huge recent upsurge in participant rates, leading to healthier and happier kids.

Scotland, either on its own or with partners should make a realistic bid to stage the women’s World Cup, Euros etc etc as soon and as often as it can.
The Women’s officials should also take a trip to Oz to pick the brains of those down here who run the women’s game.

This love in with the Matildas didn’t just happen by accident…..several of the current squad can recall playing internationals when they played in front of very low crowds.

Now they get bigger crowds than they did back then turning up for their training sessions!

[WeAreHibs]

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I think it’s only a matter of time in Scotland before women’s football really takes off.

Attitudes are a bit harder to change in Scotland maybe, but once young girls can relate to ‘heroes’ on the park, crowd numbers…at the elite level anyway, will soar.

Just give ‘em something to believe in and aspire to.

Sorry to keep going on about the Matildas, but they really ARE a case study of what to do right, and Scotland could do well to learn from them.

They just played two ‘meaningless’ friendlies……one in Adelaide and one in Sydney 4 days apart and attracted over 130,000 spectators combined.

Their World Cup game against France last year is the most watched tv event EVER in the history of television.

The scenes going to, coming from and attending one of their games come across more like the vibe of a Taylor Swift concert than that of a tribal fitba match.

The societal benefits are enormous too….a huge recent upsurge in participant rates, leading to healthier and happier kids.

Scotland, either on its own or with partners should make a realistic bid to stage the women’s World Cup, Euros etc etc as soon and as often as it can.
The Women’s officials should also take a trip to Oz to pick the brains of those down here who run the women’s game.

This love in with the Matildas didn’t just happen by accident…..several of the current squad can recall playing internationals when they played in front of very low crowds.

Now they get bigger crowds than they did back then turning up for their training sessions!

Saying "the most watched tv event EVER in the history of television." is quite the exaggeration when the final was watched by almost 10x.

"The FIFA Women's World Cup final, which England lost 1-0 to Spain at Stadium Australia, was 2023's most-watched women's sport event on TV with 38.4 million viewing hours. Preliminary television ratings show an average of about 4.17 million people were watching the Matildas take on France in what is understood to be one of the most-watched sporting events across Australia in the past two decades."

[superfurryhibby]

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These are good points.

You just need to see how many girls teams are training at weekends these days to understand the potential of the women's game. It's a while since my kids were at primary school but I remember Saturday morning football for girls getting introduced for the first time back then and now they have as many teams playing as the boys.

As you mention earlier in your post the powers that be in Scotland do appear to be especially closed-minded when it comes to embracing the women's game.

So at grass roots level there are many girls playing as boys at younger age groups. That suggests to me that the women's game is being well supported? How does that then equate with the powers that be being closed minded about women's football?

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Isn't that part of the problem though? Where does the money come from to pay a decent wage if they're not generating it? I'm all for other teams under the club banner but they have to make business sense in the same way that lower league teams need to. Most of those lower teams are struggling with greater attendances! You can't give away free tickets and claim there was X amount of a crowd when the reality is that barely a couple of hundred paid at the gate.

I think this is my point too. Why do we need to pay players? Can't the game be promoted as an amateur sport? If there is no demand to watch or get involved commercially, do we expect clubs to subsidise women's football when the majority of Scottish clubs live on a hand to mouth existence basis.

I'm sure we can all agree that participation in sport is good for everyone, but Scotland's game is not comparable to the game in England, where the clubs are trying to create a product that has commercial potential.

Maybe here we need to recognise that the market for women's football is a very different one from that of global brands down south, a bit of a reality check needed.

[Brightside]

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So at grass roots level there are many girls playing as boys at younger age groups. That suggests to me that the women's game is being well supported? How does that then equate with the powers that be being closed minded about women's football?




I think this is my point too. Why do we need to pay players? Can't the game be promoted as an amateur sport? If there is no demand to watch or get involved commercially, do we expect clubs to subsidise women's football when the majority of Scottish clubs live on a hand to mouth existence basis.

I'm sure we can all agree that participation in sport is good for everyone, but Scotland's game is not comparable to the game in England, where the clubs are trying to create a product that has commercial potential.

Maybe here we need to recognise that the market for women's football is a very different one from that of global brands down south, a bit of a reality check needed.

The elite level has to be pro otherwise they fall further behind the rest of the leagues in Europe. How they pay for that is the big issue they have. Even Rangers and Celtic dont get the crowds to generate the money they are paying. The best way would be to allow the ST to cover the womens games too, and if possible use Easter rd (now its hybrid and can take more traffic). Then its all about sponsorship. It needs to be about trying to find solutions rather than just saying "lets accept its just an amateur sport"

[superfurryhibby]

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The elite level has to be pro otherwise they fall further behind the rest of the leagues in Europe. How they pay for that is the big issue they have. Even Rangers and Celtic dont get the crowds to generate the money they are paying. The best way would be to allow the ST to cover the womens games too, and if possible use Easter rd (now its hybrid and can take more traffic). Then its all about sponsorship. It needs to be about trying to find solutions rather than just saying "lets accept its just an amateur sport"

A bit like the men's league then, absolutely miles behind the elite leagues of Europe?

I would say that there has obviously been a significant effort to find solutions and the obvious one is that there is no appetite or commercial basis for a professional women's set up in Scotland. My point about most (men's) teams in Scotland struggling to make ends meet financially, that seems to fall on deaf ears in this conversation. If our men's teams are all operating close to loss making, what hope is there for them to run professional women's sides?

[blackpoolhibs]

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A bit like the men's league then, absolutely miles behind the elite leagues of Europe?

I would say that there has obviously been a significant effort to find solutions and the obvious one is that there is no appetite or commercial basis for a professional women's set up in Scotland. My point about most (men's) teams in Scotland struggling to make ends meet financially, that seems to fall on deaf ears in this conversation. If our men's teams are all operating close to loss making, what hope is there for them to run professional women's sides?

Spot on, they need to fund their game the same way the men do, and the women's game in Scotland will then find it's rightful place in world
Football.

[He's here!]

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So at grass roots level there are many girls playing as boys at younger age groups. That suggests to me that the women's game is being well supported? How does that then equate with the powers that be being closed minded about women's football?

At my kids' and their cousins' primary schools the girls teams were brought into being by parents, who ran the coaching sessions and organised the annual subs to cover pitch hire, with those who ran local businesses stepping in as sponsors so they could provide them with kit. No input whatsoever from those who run the game in Scotland.

[He's here!]

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The elite level has to be pro otherwise they fall further behind the rest of the leagues in Europe. How they pay for that is the big issue they have. Even Rangers and Celtic dont get the crowds to generate the money they are paying. The best way would be to allow the ST to cover the womens games too, and if possible use Easter rd (now its hybrid and can take more traffic). Then its all about sponsorship. It needs to be about trying to find solutions rather than just saying "lets accept its just an amateur sport"

Agree re STs covering women's games and for the games to be played at ER - possibly on the days the men's team are playing away. When I was a kid my grandad used to take me to reserve games at ER, which back in those days used to be played against the same opponents the first team were playing against away. I always enjoyed that.

It would be a good way for those with young families to make the most of their season tickets without the expense of travelling away.

[Victor]

The simple truth is that there is too much football to choose from. Apart from the professional men’s clubs, the women’s game in Scotland has to compete with the Lowland Leagues, Junior football and youth football all of who require sponsorship and spectators. In top of that we are overloaded with televised games, which will also reduce spectator numbers. Personally I don’t watch women’s football, because I already watch Hibs, a lowland league side, kids football (family member is involved) and televised games, I don’t have time for anything else. Unless there is a massive change in what people watch, I think the woman’s game, in this country, will always struggle.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Agree re STs covering women's games and for the games to be played at ER - possibly on the days the men's team are playing away. When I was a kid my grandad used to take me to reserve games at ER, which back in those days used to be played against the same opponents the first team were playing against away. I always enjoyed that.

It would be a good way for those with young families to make the most of their season tickets without the expense of travelling away.

I e wondered if the games could be played as a ln early kick off - encourage folk into the ground earlier. Might depend on the availability of alcohol though as it seems it’s a struggle to get folk in for the mens games at time too 😂

[Eyrie]

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The simple truth is that there is too much football to choose from. Apart from the professional men’s clubs, the women’s game in Scotland has to compete with the Lowland Leagues, Junior football and youth football all of who require sponsorship and spectators. In top of that we are overloaded with televised games, which will also reduce spectator numbers. Personally I don’t watch women’s football, because I already watch Hibs, a lowland league side, kids football (family member is involved) and televised games, I don’t have time for anything else. Unless there is a massive change in what people watch, I think the woman’s game, in this country, will always struggle.

Conversely as a Hibs fan the only football I watch is our men's team, women's team and Scotland.

It all comes down to what you choose to do and no-one should be criticised for making a different choice.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Conversely as a Hibs fan the only football I watch is our men's team, women's team and Scotland.

It all comes down to what you choose to do and no-one should be criticised for making a different choice.

I agree with you, nobody should be critical of anyone who wants to watch the womens team.

It's how it is funded that's the talking point.

[Eyrie]

If someone doesn't want to watch our women's team that's fine, but it's not a reason to treat it as a totally different club to Hibs. We're not Hibernian Men's Football Club

I have no problem if part* of the club budget is used to support our women's team because it needs that investment if we are to be a good team. Without the investment interest will dwindle and our women's team will become irrelevant.

Missed a trick when the women's turned professional in Scotland because we were one of the top two teams in the country at that point and had a good base to build on.


*It would only need to be a small part to make a big difference. Consider the money the club wasted on the vanity project development squad and poor managerial appointments.

[He's here!]

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I e wondered if the games could be played as a ln early kick off - encourage folk into the ground earlier. Might depend on the availability of alcohol though as it seems it’s a struggle to get folk in for the mens games at time too 😂

I've thought about that too. Make it more of a curtain raiser as part of family-focused day at ER. Might encourage more girls along and if it was logistically feasible families could share their season ticket across the games if, say, one parent and child were leaving after the women's game.

[He's here!]

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The simple truth is that there is too much football to choose from. Apart from the professional men’s clubs, the women’s game in Scotland has to compete with the Lowland Leagues, Junior football and youth football all of who require sponsorship and spectators. In top of that we are overloaded with televised games, which will also reduce spectator numbers. Personally I don’t watch women’s football, because I already watch Hibs, a lowland league side, kids football (family member is involved) and televised games, I don’t have time for anything else. Unless there is a massive change in what people watch, I think the woman’s game, in this country, will always struggle.

Do those competing games not apply across pretty much any country tho? Doesn't seem to have squeezed out interest in the women's game in Australia, as Fred has pointed out. Pretty sure Australia only has about a third of the UK population yet they're pulling in 70k plus to women's internationals.

[B.H.F.C]

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Do those competing games not apply across pretty much any country tho? Doesn't seem to have squeezed out interest in the women's game in Australia, as Fred has pointed out. Pretty sure Australia only has about a third of the UK population yet they're pulling in 70k plus to women's internationals.

Because they have an interest in it there. Totally different culture plays a huge part IMO.

I know two people who coach with teams their girls play in. I have a mate who’s girl is doing well playing wise, playing a couple of age groups up. None of them have any interest in going to watch women’s games as spectator beyond that. The participation element is there and it’s good. I just don’t think there is that great an interest in watching it at senior level, unless it’s free or at a hugely reduced price.

[Victor]

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Conversely as a Hibs fan the only football I watch is our men's team, women's team and Scotland.

It all comes down to what you choose to do and no-one should be criticised for making a different choice.

Sorry, I wasn’t criticising anyone, I don’t know why you thought that. I am glad you are all Hibs, I was only explaining why I don’t watch women’s football.

[He's here!]

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Because they have an interest in it there. Totally different culture plays a huge part IMO.

I know two people who coach with teams their girls play in. I have a mate who’s girl is doing well playing wise, playing a couple of age groups up. None of them have any interest in going to watch women’s games as spectator beyond that. The participation element is there and it’s good. I just don’t think there is that great an interest in watching it at senior level, unless it’s free or at a hugely reduced price.

I'm not sure 'culture' entirely explains it.

Yes, in the US where there wasn't an embedded 'culture' of men's football and where more women play than men the game is a different beast, but aside from Australia the women's game is booming in the likes of South America, Japan and Europe. Think Germany and the Netherlands lead the way in terms of player numbers in Europe, while the England team obviously do very well. A lot of those England players will have become household names for aspiring young female players as I imagine the Matildas are in Australia. Unfortunately the best Scottish players end up at English clubs so their impact on young players here is probably diluted.

[Eyrie]

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Sorry, I wasn’t criticising anyone, I don’t know why you thought that. I am glad you are all Hibs, I was only explaining why I don’t watch women’s football.

I didn't see any criticism in your post so we're fine.

I only included that bit in case anyone thought that I was being critical of those who don't watch our women's team.