SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Hibrandenburg]

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Labour are bringing down SNP to bring in Labour is completely different to bringing down Labour to bring in tories. It's still terrible patter to blame the current SNP for something that happened decades ago, it's like praising trump for the republicans helping stop slavery

The SNP had voted with the government in a vote of no confidence the year before. In the months following that vote we had a referendum on devolution with the majority voting for but Labour then denying the result based on a last minute amendment, we had dead bodies piling up in the morgues, rubbish littering our streets and the country basically grinding to a halt because of the worst Labour government in living history. To say that the SNP's sole intention was to pave the way for Thatcher is being naive to what was actually going on at the time. There were more Liberal MP'S than SNP that voted against that toxic government. Labour and Labour alone were to blame for their own downfall.

[Stairway 2 7]

Harvey saying on the news its clear Humza has lost the parliament and that the SNP should now replace him. Said he could back another SNP but says he won't back Kate Forbes. Tail wagging the dug again? Humza said today that he wouldn't necessarily rule out talking to Alba. I'll be SNP 1 2 as we haven't got a credible 2nd vote party. Unless Gray wins then I'll start following shinty or something as 4 years of the same but duller is a waste of everyone's time

[marinello59]

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Harvey saying on the news its clear Humza has lost the parliament and that the SNP should now replace him. Said he could back another SNP but says he won't back Kate Forbes. Tail wagging the dug again? Humza said today that he wouldn't necessarily rule out talking to Alba. I'll be SNP 1 2 as we haven't got a credible 2nd vote party. Unless Gray wins then I'll start following shinty or something as 4 years of the same but duller is a waste of everyone's time

Maybe the only way to the party could be freshened up properly would be with a period out of Government. Just a thought.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Maybe the only way to the party could be freshened up properly would be with a period out of Government. Just a thought.

You're probably right, but every other party fills me with dread at the thought of what they'd do in government.

[Ozyhibby]

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You're probably right, but every other party fills me with dread at the thought of what they'd do in government.

Selfishly with two teenagers looking like going to uni, I’m dreading tuition fees for them both. Young people getting it hard enough just now. Labour will almost certainly bring them in.


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[marinello59]

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Selfishly with two teenagers looking like going to uni, I’m dreading tuition fees for them both. Young people getting it hard enough just now. Labour will almost certainly bring them in.


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I didn’t mention it in order to kickstart a discussion about the merits or otherwise of the other parties. It was just an observation.

[grunt]

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I didn’t mention it in order to kickstart a discussion about the merits or otherwise of the other parties. It was just an observation.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Selfishly with two teenagers looking like going to uni, I’m dreading tuition fees for them both. Young people getting it hard enough just now. Labour will almost certainly bring them in.


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SNP aren't nearly as bad as the others but there really needs to be a restart. Rumours Flynn pushing the ending of BHA and also Humza to try and stay on makes me think he'll try for a Holyrood seat..

[Andy Bee]

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Maybe the only way to the party could be freshened up properly would be with a period out of Government. Just a thought.

I've thought the same but dread what the others would do, maybe just a right good kicking at Westminster elections might refocus them for the Scottish elections.

[Paul1642]

I just think it’s pretty clear for most to see that the party allowed the green to have way too much influence and that SNP themselves have moved a bit too much away from what your average voter cares about. If the SNP can’t see this and allow a new leader to cosy up with the greens again it’s going to cost them big time at the polls.

If Humza is still in charge my vote will likely go to Labour although I’m not actually convinced by Sarwar either. If Humza goes and Kate Forbes or someone else who inspires a bit more confidence takes the helm then SNP will probably get my vote.

The votes that SNP need to target to win the next election are people who will otherwise vote Labour. Diehard Yes voters will probably vote SNP regardless and Diehard unionists will probably vote Labour or Tory regardless. It’s the majority who won’t base their vote solely on independence who need targeted and at the moment SNP just don’t have the same reliable feel that they had at the last election.

Scottish Labour or UK Labour aren’t doing anything particularly inspiring at the moment yet will win the UK election and have a good shot at the Scottish elections purely became the current governments are not doing a good enough job (not that the SNP are doing half as bad as the tories thank god).

As for the Lib Dem’s, I couldn’t tell you who their leader is without googling or what they stand for now which is a shame as prior to them entering the coalition government a few years back now they felt like a good alternative to the rest.

[lucky]

The SNP like many parties who have been in power for a long time just run out of steam. Changing Humza is must but electing Kate Forbes will be similar Sunak. She is too right wing and her personal views are not compatible with the majority of Scotland. There were people in the Labour that thought Scotland would always vote Labour now we are people with same attitude in the SNP.

[Paul1642]

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The SNP like many parties who have been in power for a long time just run out of steam. Changing Humza is must but electing Kate Forbes will be similar Sunak. She is too right wing and her personal views are not compatible with the majority of Scotland. There were people in the Labour that thought Scotland would always vote Labour now we are people with same attitude in the SNP.

Forbes took 48% of the SNP membership vote, a membership who are generally to the left of the average Scottish voter. Of the 52% who voted Humza we can assume that at least some of them would be happy with or tolerate her and simply preferred Humza at that time. She might be too right wing for a portion of the SNP voters (many of whom would still vote for the SNP anyway), but she’s not to right wing for many of the voters that SNP are going to have to sway their way if they want to win the election.

She’s obviously got her own personal religious views, something we righty try not to hold against people these days, yet in contradiction to these views still supports buffer zones around abortion clinics. As practicing Muslims it’s more than possible that Humza and Sanwar hold certain personal views the majority of Scotland wouldn’t hold but as long as that doesn’t translate into attempts to shape policy then it’s not really relevant IMO.

[superfurryhibby]

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The SNP had voted with the government in a vote of no confidence the year before. In the months following that vote we had a referendum on devolution with the majority voting for but Labour then denying the result based on a last minute amendment, we had dead bodies piling up in the morgues, rubbish littering our streets and the country basically grinding to a halt because of the worst Labour government in living history. To say that the SNP's sole intention was to pave the way for Thatcher is being naive to what was actually going on at the time. There were more Liberal MP'S than SNP that voted against that toxic government. Labour and Labour alone were to blame for their own downfall.

The trade union movement didn’t cover themselves in glory during Callaghan’s Labour government, particularly in its final years. Too many ideologues, driven by an extreme left agenda which didn’t necessarily reflect the views or best interests of their membership, nor that of the wider public.
They contributed to the carnage and gave the Thatcherite Tories a huge propaganda weapon. I’m sure the SNP leadership ( then right of centre) saw the vote of no confidence as payback for Labour’s devolution betrayal.

[Pretty Boy]

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Forbes took 48% of the SNP membership vote, a membership who are generally to the left of the average Scottish voter. Of the 52% who voted Humza we can assume that at least some of them would be happy with or tolerate her and simply preferred Humza at that time. She might be too right wing for a portion of the SNP voters (many of whom would still vote for the SNP anyway), but she’s not to right wing for many of the voters that SNP are going to have to sway their way if they want to win the election.

She’s obviously got her own personal religious views, something we righty try not to hold against people these days, yet in contradiction to these views still supports buffer zones around abortion clinics. As practicing Muslims it’s more than possible that Humza and Sanwar hold certain personal views the majority of Scotland wouldn’t hold but as long as that doesn’t translate into attempts to shape policy then it’s not really relevant IMO.

The furore around Forbes religious views was ridiculous.

There were people on this very forum stating Forbes religious views made her intolerant but then openly stated their own belief that people who had a faith should be banned from positions of power and influence in Scotland. That just screams tolerance so it does.

A lot of the issues that were brought up are already enshrined in law. Same sex marriage, the right to abortion and so on. It would be political suicide for any leader to try and row back on those in Scotland. It was a non issue. Even when she explained that her own personal views on how she should liver her own life didn't overlap with her views on what others should be free to do there were people desperate to pick up on hidden meanings. The media indulged that and she was subjected to far more intense scrutiny of her religion than Humza was, journalists were desperate to trip her up and people lapped it up.

I'm no fan of the wee frees as an institution but like any organisation there will be a wide array of people who practice. Those who are more liberal, strict traditionalists, nice people, closed minded bigots and everything in between.

There was a very vocal group of people who were far more intolerant of Kate Forbes than she seemed to be of others when she spoke. Personally I'm not sold on her from a political ideology standpoint but if I was an SNP supporter/voter I'd see her as a safe pair of hands who would steady the ship which seems badly needed.

[Ozyhibby]

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The furore around Forbes religious views was ridiculous.

There were people on this very forum stating Forbes religious views made her intolerant but then openly stated their own belief that people who had a faith should be banned from positions of power and influence in Scotland. That just screams tolerance so it does.

A lot of the issues that were brought up are already enshrined in law. Same sex marriage, the right to abortion and so on. It would be political suicide for any leader to try and row back on those in Scotland. It was a non issue. Even when she explained that her own personal views on how she should liver her own life didn't overlap with her views on what others should be free to do there were people desperate to pick up on hidden meanings. The media indulged that and she was subjected to far more intense scrutiny of her religion than Humza was, journalists were desperate to trip her up and people lapped it up.

I'm no fan of the wee frees as an institution but like any organisation there will be a wide array of people who practice. Those who are more liberal, strict traditionalists, nice people, closed minded bigots and everything in between.

There was a very vocal group of people who were far more intolerant of Kate Forbes than she seemed to be of others when she spoke. Personally I'm not sold on her from a political ideology standpoint but if I was an SNP supporter/voter I'd seems her as a safe pair of hands who would steady the ship which seems badly needed.

More importantly, she seems to know why she wants to be FM. I’m not sure Yousaf does? He appears to just get blown in whatever direction the wind is going.


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[marinello59]

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More importantly, she seems to know why she wants to be FM. I’m not sure Yousaf does? He appears to just get blown in whatever direction the wind is going.


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The problem for Forbes at this point is that the Greens will not work with her so she will have to build alliances with others that the party membership may find hard to tolerate.

[RyeSloan]

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The problem for Forbes at this point is that the Greens will not work with her so she will have to build alliances with others that the party membership may find hard to tolerate.

Yup. People seem to forget Salmond relied on working closely with the Conservatives when running a minority Government in 2007 - 2011.

I suppose it’s all a bit more polarised these days.

[grunt]

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Yup. People seem to forget Salmond relied on working closely with the Conservatives when running a minority Government in 2007 - 2011.

I suppose it’s all a bit more polarised these days.

I'm sure it is more polarised. But I think the point I'd make is that the Tories today are very different from the Tories of 2007. They're fascists today. I want nothing to do with them.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Labour are bringing down SNP to bring in Labour is completely different to bringing down Labour to bring in tories. It's still terrible patter to blame the current SNP for something that happened decades ago, it's like praising trump for the republicans helping stop slavery

Good article about the VONC that brought down the callaghan government in the Sunday National today, they lost by 331 to 330 and there was talk of bringing a labour MP from Yorkshire in an ambulance to get the numbers. Decided they had the numbers so didn't. He died a few weeks later. If only they had taken the risk people wouldn't be blaming the SNP for Thatcherism.


https://www.thenational.scot/politics/24283390.andrew-tickell-humza-yousaf-ahead-no-confidence-vote/

[RyeSloan]

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I'm sure it is more polarised. But I think the point I'd make is that the Tories today are very different from the Tories of 2007. They're fascists today. I want nothing to do with them.

Think you’ve proven my point quite nicely

[grunt]

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Think you’ve proven my point quite nicely

Are you suggesting the Tories have not changed? They're basically the BNP these days.

[Moulin Yarns]

Assuming Yousaf resigns as expected today rumours are that Forbes and Gilruth are gathering support.

[Hibs4185]

Is incredible how badly the end of sturgeon’s tenure has gone.

The final icing on the cake…her continuity candidate is going to be outed ironically for continuing her polices.

I have a lot of admiration for sturgeon but between that and her husband, who of course is innocent until proven otherwise, it’s been a spectacular fall from grace.

The unionist parties and media couldn’t have orchestrated it any better.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I'm sure it is more polarised. But I think the point I'd make is that the Tories today are very different from the Tories of 2007. They're fascists today. I want nothing to do with them.

I'm not sure it's fair to label the Scottish Tories as fascists. They have always been to the left of their Westminster colleagues, and they still are.

I can't think of any Scottish Tories who would fit in with the ideology of the current UK Government. Fraser perhaps, but for me he's more of a wind-up merchant than anything else.

Whether any of them are competent enough to work in Government is a different matter, though.....

[degenerated]

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I'm not sure it's fair to label the Scottish Tories as fascists. They have always been to the left of their Westminster colleagues, and they still are.

I can't think of any Scottish Tories who would fit in with the ideology of the current UK Government. Fraser perhaps, but for me he's more of a wind-up merchant than anything else.

Whether any of them are competent enough to work in Government is a different matter, though.....

Douglas Ross and his comments about travellers and voting record on same sex marriage make him very much like the rest of the Westminster Tories.

That boy that looks like he is breaking in a set of teeth for a horse is quite far to the right as well.

Murdo Fraser was a leading light in the federation of conservative students, a group that was disbanded by norman tebbit for being too right wing for the parties liking. Being viewed as too right wing by tebbit during thatchers leadership of party should have alarm bells ringing.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Douglas Ross and his comments about travellers and voting record on same sex marriage make him very much like the rest of the Westminster Tories.

That boy that looks like he is breaking in a set of teeth for a horse is quite far to the right as well.

Murdo Fraser was a leading light in the federation of conservative students, a group that was disbanded by norman tebbit for being too right wing for the parties liking. Being viewed as too right wing by tebbit during thatchers leadership of party should have alarm bells ringing.

In my prejudiced view of most politicians, I'd be saying "does he actually mean all that?", or is just saying that to curry favour with his bosses?

"Only following orders" springs to mind.

[hibee]

Ian Blackford on live from Westminster saying John Swinney is the man for the job.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Ian Blackford on live from Westminster saying John Swinney is the man for the job.

John swinney won't stand, he doesn't want it permanent but could be caretaker manager.

[hibee]

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John swinney won't stand, he doesn't want it permanent but could be caretaker manager.

He’s making a speech to the media at 13:15 so we’ll find out soon enough.

[JimBHibees]

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John swinney won't stand, he doesn't want it permanent but could be caretaker manager.

Maybe only candidate greens will support