Climate change and the impending apocalypse

[J-C]

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In the least surprising news of the week UAE are using cop28 to make oil deals. People flying all over the world to an oil burning metropolis in the desert, to rub egos and eat canopies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67508331

Surely they'll need canopies to keep the sun off them, better to eat the canapés. 😁

[Stairway 2 7]

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Surely they'll need canopies to keep the sun off them, better to eat the canapés. 😁

Need to stop messaging by swipe text on my phone or at least start reading what I've put in

[Sylar]

And today the president has said that transitioning away from fossil fuels will “have us back living in caves”. It’s beyond comprehension that this nation was allowed to host this. It’s always a bit of a circus, but it’s been a joke this year.

[Stairway 2 7]

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And today the president has said that transitioning away from fossil fuels will “have us back living in caves”. It’s beyond comprehension that this nation was allowed to host this. It’s always a bit of a circus, but it’s been a joke this year.

Was going to post about that. Absolutely making a mockery of the whole thing. Just a photo op and a box ticking exercise. Why would you have it in a country that openly doesn't believe in climate change

[Sylar]

Because of what I do, I was involved in COP26 at Glasgow and I felt quite optimistic after it concluded. There’s such a growing populist turn against it nowadays that this COP in particular is going to amplify all of the wrong messages. I genuinely despair right now at where we’re heading.

[Bostonhibby]

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And today the president has said that transitioning away from fossil fuels will “have us back living in caves”. It’s beyond comprehension that this nation was allowed to host this. It’s always a bit of a circus, but it’s been a joke this year.

Maybe he is worried his horrible regime might end up back in tents if no one needs or buys the oil and they don't fancy buying sand?

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[Sylar]

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Maybe he is worried his horrible regime might end up back in tents if no one needs or buys the oil and they don't fancy buying sand?

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Oh, I’ve zero doubt self-interest is the sole driver.

[Bostonhibby]

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Oh, I’ve zero doubt self-interest is the sole driver.

They'd be back in the stone age pretty quick left to their own devices.

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[Ozyhibby]

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They'd be back in the stone age pretty quick left to their own devices.

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No bad thing.


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[Bostonhibby]

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No bad thing.


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Live in hope.

Downside is the very rich ones would simply move to their secondary residences in the UK, and not to take up the jobs the EU workers were forced to leave behind.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/stvnews/status/1750858...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

It has been a bit blowy right enough.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41322742.html

Don’t they know this won’t work?


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[Hibrandenburg]

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https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41322742.html

Don’t they know this won’t work?


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How could that possibly work in Scotland? It would mean that people get inconvenienced.

[AgentDaleCooper]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68110310

so that's a full year under our belts at +1.5 degrees above pre-industrial levels.

i find the whole thing very strange. i get the need to be calm and rationalise this into context, why there's still hope etc., but at the same time, it feels more and more like we're in a flimsy vehicle hurtling towards a wall lined with explosives.

when do we admit that our political systems, and a huge amount of our lifestyle choices, need to absolutely go in the bin? I'm not saying I live a 100% green life by any means, I'm just asking these questions. FWIW I really struggle to see how air travel can be justified in any cases other than seeing loved ones and one-off work trips, diplomacy etc. Same goes for meat, and I try to avoid it as much as possible, particularly cheap crap stuff, but again, I'm not here to claim moral superiority, I definitely still eat it when veggie options are rubbish.

Bottom line for me, though, is that individual choices are more or less pissing in the wind. Governments need to either legislate or be toppled, otherwise the future of our planet looks very inhospitable for eejits like us, and sadly many other creatures and life forms who have done nothing wrong.

[superfurryhibby]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68110310

so that's a full year under our belts at +1.5 degrees above pre-industrial levels.

i find the whole thing very strange. i get the need to be calm and rationalise this into context, why there's still hope etc., but at the same time, it feels more and more like we're in a flimsy vehicle hurtling towards a wall lined with explosives.

when do we admit that our political systems, and a huge amount of our lifestyle choices, need to absolutely go in the bin? I'm not saying I live a 100% green life by any means, I'm just asking these questions. FWIW I really struggle to see how air travel can be justified in any cases other than seeing loved ones and one-off work trips, diplomacy etc. Same goes for meat, and I try to avoid it as much as possible, particularly cheap crap stuff, but again, I'm not here to claim moral superiority, I definitely still eat it when veggie options are rubbish.

Bottom line for me, though, is that individual choices are more or less pissing in the wind. Governments need to either legislate or be toppled, otherwise the future of our planet looks very inhospitable for eejits like us, and sadly many other creatures and life forms who have done nothing wrong.

Exactly. If it is so serious then we need a more radical approach to addressing climate change. Unfortunately, the dominant free market-neoliberal capitalist economic forces aren't going to allow it.

Many of the green policies are just guilt tripping lip service.

Consume , consume...build more houses because it makes housing more accessible (as if that has ever actually happened in Britain), encourage economic reliance on tourism with all the attendant carbon footprint, new cars, they're so electric (but not very green). Cheap food imports, travelling all around the world, we need that cheap food (regardless of the cost to those who's countries grow it) because our wages are so low. Social care crisis anyone, let's import hundreds of thousands of people from developing nations instead of adequately funding the industry (whilst we're at it , we can spend hundreds of millions on a Tram system that serves a fraction of the cities population, handy for the tourists though and your house price might rise if you live near it, lol)). Fossil fuels? Let's issue new licences to extract more oil from the North Sea and tell the suckers their cars aren't compliant with our make no difference ULEZ zone).

Sadly, people feel there are no alternatives and they're right. Unless governments get radical, anything we do is pissing in the face of a gale force wind.

[AgentDaleCooper]

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Exactly. If it is so serious then we need a more radical approach to addressing climate change. Unfortunately, the dominant free market-neoliberal capitalist economic forces aren't going to allow it.

Many of the green policies are just guilt tripping lip service.

Consume , consume...build more houses because it makes housing more accessible (as if that has ever actually happened in Britain), encourage economic reliance on tourism with all the attendant carbon footprint, new cars, they're so electric (but not very green). Cheap food imports, travelling all around the world, we ned that because wages are so low. Social care crisis, let's import hundreds of thousands of people from developing nations instead of adequately funding the industry. Fossil fuels? Let's issue new licences to extract more oil from the North Sea.

Sadly, people feel there are no alternatives and they're right. Unless governments get radical, anything we 8do is pissing in the face of a gale force wind.

I think one important first step is for people to stop rationalising how our current system might yet deal with it. It won't, and trying to convince oneself that it will is either arrogant, deluded, irresponsible, selfish, stupid or some combination of the above. I think we actually do need to start panicing soon, as we are way behind on changing course.

[Paul1642]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68110310

so that's a full year under our belts at +1.5 degrees above pre-industrial levels.

i find the whole thing very strange. i get the need to be calm and rationalise this into context, why there's still hope etc., but at the same time, it feels more and more like we're in a flimsy vehicle hurtling towards a wall lined with explosives.

when do we admit that our political systems, and a huge amount of our lifestyle choices, need to absolutely go in the bin? I'm not saying I live a 100% green life by any means, I'm just asking these questions. FWIW I really struggle to see how air travel can be justified in any cases other than seeing loved ones and one-off work trips, diplomacy etc. Same goes for meat, and I try to avoid it as much as possible, particularly cheap crap stuff, but again, I'm not here to claim moral superiority, I definitely still eat it when veggie options are rubbish.

Bottom line for me, though, is that individual choices are more or less pissing in the wind. Governments need to either legislate or be toppled, otherwise the future of our planet looks very inhospitable for eejits like us, and sadly many other creatures and life forms who have done nothing wrong.

I genially think we simply aren’t going to change and will inevitably eventually be ****ed as a result. Governments can’t legislate to do what’s needed because they will be voted out, and even if a government (UK for example) somehow went hardline on climate change and survived a few elections it would be a drop in the ocean because the rest of the world wouldn’t be doing the same.

We should all be willing to do the following but people aren’t willing to go without foreign holidays, new clothes, new electric items, live in cold home in winter (or a hot home in summer for those in hot climates) and so on. Once again it’s probably the mindset of why should I suffer when everyone else isn’t. Maybe if it was forced on the whole world’s population it would be easier to stomach because we would all be in the same boat but that would take totalitarian governments to achieve. Not something many would accept without a fight.

Using the UK as an example once again our economy is to some degree a ponzi scheme. If our population stops growing or shrink the economy goes to ****. We therefore have to increase our population by immigration with the effect of building more houses on green land, consuming more food, more fuel, more cars on the road and effectively more of everything bad for the environment. Then how many people live within walking distance of their work. A few centuries ago the answer would have been everyone. Now it’s probably a pretty small %, especially in the west.

Then the real elephant in the room is the world’s ever growing population. We are 1.5 degrees above pre industrialisation levels. The world’s population at that milestone was sub 800 million. We are now over 10 times that figure.

If our population was still 800 million we could sustain our current lifestyles without killing the planet I’d imagine. Dammed if I know the solution to that one though.

[Ozyhibby]

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I genially think we simply aren’t going to change and will inevitably eventually be ****ed as a result. Governments can’t legislate to do what’s needed because they will be voted out, and even if a government (UK for example) somehow went hardline on climate change and survived a few elections it would be a drop in the ocean because the rest of the world wouldn’t be doing the same.

We should all be willing to do the following but people aren’t willing to go without foreign holidays, new clothes, new electric items, live in cold home in winter (or a hot home in summer for those in hot climates) and so on. Once again it’s probably the mindset of why should I suffer when everyone else isn’t. Maybe if it was forced on the whole world’s population it would be easier to stomach because we would all be in the same boat but that would take totalitarian governments to achieve. Not something many would accept without a fight.

Using the UK as an example once again our economy is to some degree a ponzi scheme. If our population stops growing or shrink the economy goes to ****. We therefore have to increase our population by immigration with the effect of building more houses on green land, consuming more food, more fuel, more cars on the road and effectively more of everything bad for the environment. Then how many people live within walking distance of their work. A few centuries ago the answer would have been everyone. Now it’s probably a pretty small %, especially in the west.

Then the real elephant in the room is the world’s ever growing population. We are 1.5 degrees above pre industrialisation levels. The world’s population at that milestone was sub 800 million. We are now over 10 times that figure.

If our population was still 800 million we could sustain our current lifestyles without killing the planet I’d imagine. Dammed if I know the solution to that one though.

To be fair we are doing our bit on population. If it wasn’t for immigration it would be falling rapidly.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/guardianeco/status/175...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

Thought Labour had cancelled this emergency?


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[grunt]

This Tory Government doesn't seem to believe in green issues.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...e_iOSApp_Other

The UK government is providing a €700m (£600m) guarantee for the billionaire Jim Ratcliffe to build the biggest petrochemical plant in Europe in 30 years that will turbocharge plastic production.

The huge petrochemical plant has been described as a “carbon bomb” by campaigners. Being constructed in the Belgian city of Antwerp by Ratcliffe’s company Ineos, it will bring plastic production to Europe on a scale not seen before, just as countries are trying to negotiate a binding global treaty to tackle the growing problem of plastic pollution.

[Paul1642]

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This Tory Government doesn't seem to believe in green issues.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...e_iOSApp_Other

Looking past the green issues, I must be missing the economic reason for this?

Why on earth would we fund a billionaire to build a factory in Belgium?

[Moulin Yarns]

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Looking past the green issues, I must be missing the economic reason for this?

Why on earth would we fund a billionaire to build a factory in Belgium?

My thoughts exactly, other than Ratcliffe being a huge tory doner.

AND this plant will do exactly what will be shut down at grangemouth!!

[Stairway 2 7]

It's being funded by banks plus UK, Italian, Spanish and Belgian governments I had read through export loans. I'm not sure at what rate or benefit to the other countries. I think it claims it will be carbon neutral after 10 years. I can't see how, probably some greenwashing project like tree planting but I'm unsure

[Jones28]

Just seen on the news that some Swiss women have won a case in the ECHR on tackling the climate crises.

Good news? Surely?

[Ozyhibby]

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Just seen on the news that some Swiss women have won a case in the ECHR on tackling the climate crises.

Good news? Surely?

People think that when we sign up to these climate treaties they are meaningless but they become law and the public can use the law to ensure they are enforced. Good on the old Swiss ladies.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I critised this at the time. The green led scot gov £2 billion PFI deal will mainly benefit huge polluters and rich land owners. Carbon offset has been shown time and time again to be a swindle with negligible environmental benefits allowing massive amounts of Carbon emissions

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/03/pri...cotlands-trees

The Scottish Government's £2 billion PFI deal to pay wealthy landowners to plant trees will increase inequality and do nothing to deter big polluters – proof that the market can't fix the climate crisis

[grunt]

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I critised this at the time. The green led scot gov £2 billion PFI deal will mainly benefit huge polluters and rich land owners. Carbon offset has been shown time and time again to be a swindle with negligible environmental benefits allowing massive amounts of Carbon emissions

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/03/pri...cotlands-trees

The Scottish Government's £2 billion PFI deal to pay wealthy landowners to plant trees will increase inequality and do nothing to deter big polluters – proof that the market can't fix the climate crisis

Highly impartial source you have there.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Highly impartial source you have there.

You regularly post links from the national which is obviously not impartial. That is fine some of the articles are poor some are really good. You'd be crazy and clouded if you only read articles from a source that repeats what you want to read. What did you think of the article it's well researched. It's obvious the PFI benefits the few who grossly own half of Scottish land. Carbon offsetting is more and more being shown as the scam it is, a get out for horrors like BP to say they are green whilst killing the planet.

If you want more sources that the PFI is terrible

An article from eco experts on Carbon offsetting I admit they have bias in saving the planet
https://www.theecoexperts.co.uk/blog...s%20we%20think.

Greenpeace too
https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/t...t-really-work/
The biggest problem with carbon offsetting is that it doesn’t really work

Robert Mcalpine ex Green party has been fighting for Scotlands nature for decades
https://robinmcalpine.org/scotlands-...ing-us-poorer/
Scotland’s money trees are making us poorer
by Robin McAlpine | 13 Mar 2023

The Scottish Government is trying to 'lever in' private funding to profit from tree planting in Scotland. The direct consequence of this will be something akin to 'reverse land reform', pricing another generation off the land.

[Pretty Boy]

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I critised this at the time. The green led scot gov £2 billion PFI deal will mainly benefit huge polluters and rich land owners. Carbon offset has been shown time and time again to be a swindle with negligible environmental benefits allowing massive amounts of Carbon emissions

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/03/pri...cotlands-trees

The Scottish Government's £2 billion PFI deal to pay wealthy landowners to plant trees will increase inequality and do nothing to deter big polluters – proof that the market can't fix the climate crisis

Andy Wightman is always a good source of information for stuff like this, land ownership and other environmental issues on Twitter. Well researched stuff by himself and good links to others. He was a big critic of this policy at the time.

He's a big miss in parliament, a common sense voice in the green movement who understood that perfection can often be the enemy of good.

[superfurryhibby]

What we really need is legislation to outlaw wood burning and multi fuel stoves......

|Meanwhile we can carry on flying around in our private planers and helicopters, jet of all around the globe on holiday, burn thousands of acres of grouse moor, import food from all around the world \(obviously needed even more now we are because we are building houses, despite Nimbyism, on prime agricultural land).