Congestion charges and low emission zones

[hibee]

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Do you think it's a case of Edinburgh not being flat enough or that people don't feel safe to cycle on these roads

Or too cold and wet?

[Ozyhibby]

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Do you think it's a case of Edinburgh not being flat enough or that people don't feel safe to cycle on these roads

No, I think it’s culture. It takes time to change behaviour but slowly it is happening. I’m seeing a lot more folk on bikes than I did 5 years ago.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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Do you think it's a case of Edinburgh not being flat enough or that people don't feel safe to cycle on these roads

Poor cycling infrastructure, which is improving in fairness. The rise in cycling in Edinburgh has been huge in the last 10 years, probably helped by electric bikes making the worst hills a doddle.

Amsterdam was 100% a car city before the council decided it would be a cycling city, closed roads to cars and added miles of cycling lanes. If Edinburgh closes uptown to cars as planned then cycling will rocket their

[superfurryhibby]

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Poor cycling infrastructure, which is improving in fairness. The rise in cycling in Edinburgh has been huge in the last 10 years, probably helped by electric bikes making the worst hills a doddle.

Amsterdam was 100% a car city before the council decided it would be a cycling city, closed roads to cars and added miles of cycling lanes. If Edinburgh closes uptown to cars as planned then cycling will rocket their

Not really seeing a huge rise in cyclists tbh, I think you’re exaggerating the level of increase, same with e-bikes. There are more but still massively outnumbered by conventional bikes.

There’s no comparison between Amsterdam and Edinburgh, one is opretty flat and already had a strong cycle culture, always has done. The other is a very hilly city with a miserable windy climate.

[Ozyhibby]

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Not really seeing a huge rise in cyclists tbh, I think you’re exaggerating the level of increase, same with e-bikes. There are more but still massively outnumbered by conventional bikes.

There’s no comparison between Amsterdam and Edinburgh, one is opretty flat and already had a strong cycle culture, always has done. The other is a very hilly city with a miserable windy climate.

I’d imagine the weather isn’t great in Scandinavia and yet they cycle far more than us.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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Not really seeing a huge rise in cyclists tbh, I think you’re exaggerating the level of increase, same with e-bikes. There are more but still massively outnumbered by conventional bikes.

There’s no comparison between Amsterdam and Edinburgh, one is opretty flat and already had a strong cycle culture, always has done. The other is a very hilly city with a miserable windy climate.

In the uk in the 40s 40% of uk journeys were by bike and Holland did cycle more with 60%. It collapsed in both countries in Holland down to 20% uk totally to 1%. In Amsterdam journeys went from 25% in 1970 to 48% now

We'll probably never reach that but we should be trying to increase it as much as we can not compare ourselves to the most cycled city in the world. Spokes records city centre cycling twice a year and they say cycling numbers have doubled at commuting times, I'm not sure the accuracy but it certainly seems to be increasing massively
http://www.spokes.org.uk/2023/05/city-centre-traffic-count-bike-numbers-keep-growing/

Under 10% of bikes sold are ebikes but they must do a much higher mileage. Must be a good quarter or higher in the centre being ebikes but that's due to most delivery drivers having zoomos.

If the city centre goes car free I'm hopeful the numbers will finally make a move from the low point they are at. If we can even get 10% off cars onto bikes then that'll be thousands of miles of less carbon emissions and the NHS will be delighted too

[Stairway 2 7]

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I’d imagine the weather isn’t great in Scandinavia and yet they cycle far more than us.


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What about London in February in the rain, look what happens when you put in good cycling infrastructure

https://twitter.com/CS3Count/status/1757898106266595708

[Ozyhibby]

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What about London in February in the rain, look what happens when you put in good cycling infrastructure

https://twitter.com/CS3Count/status/1757898106266595708

London cycle lanes are absolutely mobbed.


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[superfurryhibby]

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I’d imagine the weather isn’t great in Scandinavia and yet they cycle far more than us.


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I think in your imagination is about right.

Maybe their cities are less hilly or maybe you’re just saying anything for the sake of being contrary?

Comparison between cycling in a city built on hills and one that is largely flat is not a great starting point. That’s before you take into account a climate that is very different. Amsterdam is warmer, drier and as a result, much more cycle friendly than Edinburgh.

I suspect your lack of insight comes from not really having much experience of cycling in Edinburgh? Anyone who has actually done this knows that the hills and weather are a challenge.

Amsterdam is a city I have known well for many decades, cycling has always been a huge part of city life. Whilst there is potential to make Edinburgh more cycle friendly, it’s never going to become as widespread as it is in the Dam.

[lapsedhibee]

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Anyone who has actually done this knows that the hills and weather are a challenge.

Edinburgh hills would probably be an insurmountable challenge for the sit-up-and-beg bikes that many flat-city people ride, but with the right gearing on bikes the hills are really not that scary. Largely single-digit percentage inclines.

[speedy_gonzales]

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I think in your imagination is about right.

Maybe their cities are less hilly or maybe you’re just saying anything for the sake of being contrary?

Comparison between cycling in a city built on hills and one that is largely flat is not a great starting point. That’s before you take into account a climate that is very different. Amsterdam is warmer, drier and as a result, much more cycle friendly than Edinburgh.

I suspect your lack of insight comes from not really having much experience of cycling in Edinburgh? Anyone who has actually done this knows that the hills and weather are a challenge.

Amsterdam is a city I have known well for many decades, cycling has always been a huge part of city life. Whilst there is potential to make Edinburgh more cycle friendly, it’s never going to become as widespread as it is in the Dam.

I had to check a couple of online resources to reassure myself, but there isn't a massive difference in weather between Edinburgh & Amsterdam, no more than a few degrees when it comes to min/max average temps. Same goes for precipitation. Wind is a bit bigger difficult to measure but both are temperate/maritime climates.
As someone who is a utility cyclist (only cycle to work/back) I found wind and hills were the enemy but a very low level e-bike has levelled the playing field over the last year.
I love my 15 minutes (regardless of weather) commute. It's no slower than taking the car, much faster than the bus and it's good for my mental well being.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/w...embraced-bikes


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[superfurryhibby]

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I had to check a couple of online resources to reassure myself, but there isn't a massive difference in weather between Edinburgh & Amsterdam, no more than a few degrees when it comes to min/max average temps. Same goes for precipitation. Wind is a bit bigger difficult to measure but both are temperate/maritime climates.
As someone who is a utility cyclist (only cycle to work/back) I found wind and hills were the enemy but a very low level e-bike has levelled the playing field over the last year.
I love my 15 minutes (regardless of weather) commute. It's no slower than taking the car, much faster than the bus and it's good for my mental well being.

I did the same and the level of rainfall is significantly higher in Edinburgh. The average temp difference may not be huge, but Edinburgh has colder wintersand as you say, wind chill is a factor.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2...en-in-the-snow


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[Stairway 2 7]

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I think in your imagination is about right.

Maybe their cities are less hilly or maybe you’re just saying anything for the sake of being contrary?

Comparison between cycling in a city built on hills and one that is largely flat is not a great starting point. That’s before you take into account a climate that is very different. Amsterdam is warmer, drier and as a result, much more cycle friendly than Edinburgh.

I suspect your lack of insight comes from not really having much experience of cycling in Edinburgh? Anyone who has actually done this knows that the hills and weather are a challenge.

Amsterdam is a city I have known well for many decades, cycling has always been a huge part of city life. Whilst there is potential to make Edinburgh more cycle friendly, it’s never going to become as widespread as it is in the Dam.

He said they cycle more in Scandinavia which is colder than us and you continued to speak about Amsterdam the greatest cycling city in the world. 30% of travel in Copenhagenis by bike a massive number although its much colder and with heavier snow in winter, it also has and about the same amount of rain as us so that obviously isn't a factor.

Zurich a hilly city got its cycle rates from 2% of journeys to 8% of journeys in 10 years, it's also got almost double the rain we have that was all down to cycling infrastructure. Lisbon much hillyer than us has managed to double the cycling rate through adding miles of cycling lanes and pedestrianising. Antwerp has increased cycling 59% in 10 years, mostly due to the plan we are trying to copy in the city centre

Just comparing against Amsterdam is daft we'll never match that and aren't aiming to. We only should worry about ourselves. There is no reason that Scotland can't increase its cycling rates by double or quadruple like other wetter, hillyer and colder cities have managed

[Paul1642]

The weather is no doubt a factor but not as big as infrastructure. The hills can’t be changed so just gotta enjoy them when you’re on the way down :). I don’t cycle as much as a I would like to, mainly due to

1) Shift work. Don’t enjoy cycling home in the early hours of the morning and then having to shower imperially before going to bed.

2) Training for running events means I need to save the legs for runs at times.

Disregarding these two factors though and I tend to cycle most day shifts from mid spring through to mid Autumn as it’s generally enjoyable whereas winter cycling is a slog for me.

The infrastructure is also a huge game changer. I choose to cycle to work a route (shawfair cycle path) which is around double the distance on a route that is majority cycle path over the much shorter but all road route (which includes a chuck of the a7 and sheriff hall). The enjoyment is so much more on a route which is designed for cycling rather than dodging the giant potholes at the side of every road and knowing that when you swerve to avoid them your taking your life into your own hands.

We can’t change the weather, we can’t change the hills, but we can invest in better infrastructure because at the moment it’s pretty terrible really.

[Ozyhibby]

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The weather is no doubt a factor but not as big as infrastructure. The hills can’t be changed so just gotta enjoy them when you’re on the way down :). I don’t cycle as much as a I would like to, mainly due to

1) Shift work. Don’t enjoy cycling home in the early hours of the morning and then having to shower imperially before going to bed.

2) Training for running events means I need to save the legs for runs at times.

Disregarding these two factors though and I tend to cycle most day shifts from mid spring through to mid Autumn as it’s generally enjoyable whereas winter cycling is a slog for me.

The infrastructure is also a huge game changer. I choose to cycle to work a route (shawfair cycle path) which is around double the distance on a route that is majority cycle path over the much shorter but all road route (which includes a chuck of the a7 and sheriff hall). The enjoyment is so much more on a route which is designed for cycling rather than dodging the giant potholes at the side of every road and knowing that when you swerve to avoid them your taking your life into your own hands.

We can’t change the weather, we can’t change the hills, but we can invest in better infrastructure because at the moment it’s pretty terrible really.

Infrastructure could transform cycling in Edinburgh. Just need people to get behind it. Need less space for cars and more for bikes.


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[speedy_gonzales]

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I did the same and the level of rainfall is significantly higher in Edinburgh. The average temp difference may not be huge, but Edinburgh has colder wintersand as you say, wind chill is a factor.

Genuinely don't wish to distract from the thread or be a pedant but a simple Google search for "average Edinburgh rainfall" Vs "average Amsterdam rainfall" returns 685mm to Edinburgh and 850mm to Amsterdam.
I'm not sure why we always compare any town/city that wishes to improve cycling uptake to Amsterdam, but it does always seem to be the sole point of reference.
I cycle all year round and very rarely need to wear full waterproofs. Genuinely, I reckon less than 10 times a year.
Anyhoo, back to Congestion charging and LEZ's....

[Berwickhibby]

Perhaps the time is right to introduce bike tax for using public highways and cycle paths, also a cyclists must have minimum 3rd party insurance.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Perhaps the time is right to introduce bike tax for using public highways and cycle paths, also a cyclists must have minimum 3rd party insurance.

So electric cars should pay no road tax but bikes should? Its linked to emissions. Never understood people saying they should pay it

[Stairway 2 7]

Tram passengers have doubled since Newhaven route opening. It's hugely popular thanks to more of the city being covered

https://edinburghtrams.com/news/mill...aunch-new-line

More than seven million tram trips were recorded by the operator in the second half of 2023, compared to 3.4 million during the same period the previous year.

[speedy_gonzales]

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Perhaps the time is right to introduce bike tax for using public highways and cycle paths, also a cyclists must have minimum 3rd party insurance.

The vast majority of cyclists already have the 3rd party insurance, almost all unknowingly.
Most home insurance policies cover first party property and third party liability claims if your out on your bike.

[hibee]

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So electric cars should pay no road tax but bikes should? Its linked to emissions. Never understood people saying they should pay it

Electric cars will be paying road tax from next year.

Too many new cars were exempt so they’ve changed the rules so they can still tax us, not sure exactly what the changes are but I think only the first years tax will be based on emissions now.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Electric cars will be paying road tax from next year.

Too many new cars were exempt so they’ve changed the rules so they can still tax us, not sure exactly what the changes are but I think only the first years tax will be based on emissions now.

Didn't realise that not surprised with the Tories in charge. It still should be heavily weighted on emissions. It also should be vehicle weight and size like France is doing, as that is what damages the road. You'd need 100 bikes to compare with the average car weight, some SUVs are just ridiculous

[Ozyhibby]

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Didn't realise that not surprised with the Tories in charge. It still should be heavily weighted on emissions. It also should be vehicle weight and size like France is doing, as that is what damages the road. You'd need 100 bikes to compare with the average car weight, some SUVs are just ridiculous

Absolutely.


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[speedy_gonzales]

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Didn't realise that not surprised with the Tories in charge. It still should be heavily weighted on emissions. It also should be vehicle weight and size like France is doing, as that is what damages the road. You'd need 100 bikes to compare with the average car weight, some SUVs are just ridiculous

Damage to the road due to the weight of the vehicle needs to be factored in. Private transport in general is subsidised, we don't pay anything close to the actual true cost (health, environmental, infrastructure).
A lot of folk are quite rightly complaining about the state of the roads around Edinburgh & beyond, the collapsed culvert at Cameron Toll a significant case in point. However, few folk want to concede that vehicle ownership has more than doubled in the last 30 years, and over the same time, the weight of the "average" vehicle has increased 25-30%. Basic maths means the roads are getting 2.5 times the damage, 2.5 times the potholes, they won't be getting 2.5 times the funding (inflation adjusted).

[Paul1642]

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Perhaps the time is right to introduce bike tax for using public highways and cycle paths, also a cyclists must have minimum 3rd party insurance.

To what benefit? We should be trying to get as many people cycling as possible, not making it more expensive.

It would also be a near unenforceable decision. Are we suggesting putting registration plates on bikes? See the complete lack of enforcement in regards to e-scooters which technically should be registered, insured and the rider have a licence to drive on a road. Times that by 100 for the number of cyclists.

I assume kids go free in this plan? 😂

[Moulin Yarns]

Just been to Dundee, ULEZ comes into effect end of May. Everyone needs to be ready as they become more normal.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1...dxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Jack]

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https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1...dxJXScFNwz8V4A


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They all moved away because of the smell of horse ****!