Hamas attack on Israel

[Ozyhibby]

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That is, obviously, good news for many reasons.
However, it more people are released on both sides, the Israelis will
just arrest more Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, as they have done over the last 4 days

Unfortunately, hostage taking has been the MO of both sides in this for years.


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[stokesmessiah]

Really harrowing images online of the two boys being hit by sniper fire and killed in Jenin today. The IDGAF claim they were throwing explosive devices….apparently rocks are explosive these days.

[MKHIBEE]

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Really harrowing images online of the two boys being hit by sniper fire and killed in Jenin today. The IDGAF claim they were throwing explosive devices….apparently rocks are explosive these days.

The Israelis are not doing anything they haven’t been doing for years. Watching the young boy getting shot was harrowing. I didn’t see any rocks being thrown, even if they were it’s still unacceptable. No doubt the murderer will be free to murder again

[Moulin Yarns]

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Really harrowing images online of the two boys being hit by sniper fire and killed in Jenin today. The IDGAF claim they were throwing explosive devices….apparently rocks are explosive these days.

Ceasefire, only in name and only where it suits them.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Ceasefire, only in name and only where it suits them.

It's only a ceasefire in Gaza not that that doesn't make it not abhorrent

[MKHIBEE]

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Ceasefire, only in name and only where it suits them.

Isreal is allowed to do as it wants, when it wants, with no hindrance from the western powers. The ceasefire allows hostages to be returned to Isreal, while for every Palestinian freed an above equal number are arrested and jailed. While allowing 700,000 Israeli “settlers” to illegally acquire land and houses in the occupied West Bank. The west is complicit in this debacle. Hopefully the western powers will ensure that the Palestinians achieve some sort of state when this is all done

[MKHIBEE]

It’s not much in the great scheme of things but it’s a small step in the right direction.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/5/us-announces-visa-bans-after-warning-israel-on-west-bank-settler-violence

[Ozyhibby]

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It’s not much in the great scheme of things but it’s a small step in the right direction.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/5/us-announces-visa-bans-after-warning-israel-on-west-bank-settler-violence

A lot of the settlers are American and I doubt they will issue many visa restrictions anyway.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

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Isreal is allowed to do as it wants, when it wants, with no hindrance from the western powers. The ceasefire allows hostages to be returned to Isreal, while for every Palestinian freed an above equal number are arrested and jailed. While allowing 700,000 Israeli “settlers” to illegally acquire land and houses in the occupied West Bank. The west is complicit in this debacle. Hopefully the western powers will ensure that the Palestinians achieve some sort of state when this is all done

The west aren't just complicit, they are largely responsible.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I can't help but feel that with Israel basically completely getting away with what they're doing, there's going to be horrendous and far reaching consequences for everyone.

[stokesmessiah]

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I can't help but feel that with Israel basically completely getting away with what they're doing, there's going to be horrendous and far reaching consequences for everyone.

In what sense?

[AgentDaleCooper]

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In what sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67659296

stuff like this...i just don't know how relations can be remotely normalised in the region after this - I worry that the Arab states, particularly Lebanon and Iran, won't be able to stand by if this continues, and that you then get the cascade of Iran pulling in Russia and the US ever closer to direct combat...and then we're hooped.

[Stairway 2 7]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67659296

stuff like this...i just don't know how relations can be remotely normalised in the region after this - I worry that the Arab states, particularly Lebanon and Iran, won't be able to stand by if this continues, and that you then get the cascade of Iran pulling in Russia and the US ever closer to direct combat...and then we're hooped.

Russia aren't fighting the US in direct combat, they are using all their might to have a stalemate with a country using 1970s equipment. Countries like Finland and Poland would walk through Russia in a week.
Iran are using their proxies to attack the US quite openly in Iraq and they funded the Hamas slaughter on Oct 7th pretty openly too, they won't fight head on, more likely doing nuclear deals together same with Qatar.

Israel will take out Hamas via thousands more civilians then pull out and the world will forget about it as they continue to resettle and steal land.

This isn't new they have been doing it for decades. Although Putin stole Crimea committed genocide on the local Tatars resettled millions of people in Crimea and people didn't say a word, not one march. Assad openly gassed his on people flattened Aleppo and killed thousands of children doing it, no marches there either.

Venezuela is currently trying to conquer half of Guyana and I don't any nation will do anything either

[grunt]

So US is the sole country to vote against UN resolution for a ceasefire, and UK abstains.

This WM Government is out to make the UK a pariah state. Not in my name.

[MKHIBEE]

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So US is the sole country to vote against UN resolution for a ceasefire, and UK abstains.

This WM Government is out to make the UK a pariah state. Not in my name.

The US routinely vetoes any UN resolution with regards to holding Isreal account for its barbarism so no surprise there

[Stairway 2 7]

Hamas had the choice to release more prisoners for an extended ceasefire but refused...

Hopefully Hamas gets wiped out and then Netanyahus evil regime falls

[MKHIBEE]

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Hamas had the choice to release more prisoners for an extended ceasefire but refused...

Hopefully Hamas gets wiped out and then Netanyahus evil regime falls

Where are you seeing this?

[Stairway 2 7]

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Where are you seeing this?

Everywhere. It was 20 prisoners for every day. They say they aren't releasing men or the last 10 women. US government say the last women aren't being released due to them being raped.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill...-hostages/amp/


Don't know how true that is but it's undeniable that Hamas used mass rape as a weapon. Weirdos holding signs in the uk praising Hamas should be on a watch list. Worth a read for people thinking it isn't two evils colliding
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...t-67629181.amp

[MKHIBEE]

[QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525268]Everywhere. It was 20 prisoners for every day. They say they aren't releasing men or the last 10 women. US government say the last women aren't being released due to them being raped.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill...-hostages/amp/


Don't know how true that is but it's undeniable that Hamas used mass rape as a weapon. Weirdos holding signs in the uk praising Hamas should be on a watch list. Worth a read for people thinking it isn't two evils colliding
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...t-67629181.amp[/

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/12/despi...ocide-in-gaza/

[MKHIBEE]

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Hamas had the choice to release more prisoners for an extended ceasefire but refused...

Hopefully Hamas gets wiped out and then Netanyahus evil regime falls

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/...e-wont-be-easy

[Stairway 2 7]

[QUOTE=MKHIBEE;7525296]

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Everywhere. It was 20 prisoners for every day. They say they aren't releasing men or the last 10 women. US government say the last women aren't being released due to them being raped.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill...-hostages/amp/


Don't know how true that is but it's undeniable that Hamas used mass rape as a weapon. Weirdos holding signs in the uk praising Hamas should be on a watch list. Worth a read for people thinking it isn't two evils colliding
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...t-67629181.amp[/

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/12/despi...ocide-in-gaza/

That's one of the most messed up responses I've seen on here. Women that were raped at the festival gave there testimony journalist and UN staff were shown footage. If your searching for the other side of the story leads you to perverted rape denials your on the wrong side of the Internet.

It's not tv you don't need good guys and bad guys. Hamas bizarrely denies atrocities even with go pro footage of them slaughtering kids and woman walking with blood coming from the crotch of their trousers.

Here's the primal scream of the mother of Naama one of the girls with bloodied trousers.

https://archive.ph/5K0sb

Truth usually lies in the middle. I wouldn't necessarily trust Israel, Hamas, the US or Al Jazeera Qatar owned funders of Hamas

[Stairway 2 7]

[QUOTE=MKHIBEE;7525334][QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525323]

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That's one of the most messed up responses I've seen on here. Women that were raped at the festival gave there testimony journalist and UN staff were shown footage. If your searching for the other side of the story leads you to perverted rape denials your on the wrong side of the Internet.

It's not tv you don't need good guys and bad guys. Hamas bizarrely denies atrocities even with go pro footage of them slaughtering kids and woman walking with blood coming from the crotch of their trousers.

Here's the primal scream of the mother of Naama one of the girls with bloodied trousers.

https://archive.ph/5K0sb

Truth usually lies in the middle. I wouldn't necessarily trust Israel,

Hamas, the US or Al Jazeera Qatar owned funders of Hamas[/



The perversion is in your reply. I posted, without comment, a story on the issue being discussed.You then come up with a load of fantasist nonsense about tv, bad guys, good guys and perverted rape denials. You do remember the “ beheaded babies” lie.? I have absolutely no doubt that there are many primal screams being used in Gaza and Isreal right now.Whether these rape accounts are all true, partly true, made up or whatever, I have no idea.There are a number of points around this issue that demand caution. As I’m sure you are aware, the first casualty in war is truth. On both sides. As an aside do you have evidence that Al Jazeera fund Hamas?

Qatar funds Hamas and shelters the leaders, Al Jazeera is owned by the same people. Not believing rape victims and independent observers isn't nuanced or showing caution its misogyny or antisemitism.

[MKHIBEE]

[QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525323]

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That's one of the most messed up responses I've seen on here. Women that were raped at the festival gave there testimony journalist and UN staff were shown footage. If your searching for the other side of the story leads you to perverted rape denials your on the wrong side of the Internet.

It's not tv you don't need good guys and bad guys. Hamas bizarrely denies atrocities even with go pro footage of them slaughtering kids and woman walking with blood coming from the crotch of their trousers.

Here's the primal scream of the mother of Naama one of the girls with bloodied trousers.

https://archive.ph/5K0sb

Truth usually lies in the middle. I wouldn't necessarily trust Israel, Hamas, the US or Al Jazeera Qatar owned funders of Hamas

The perversion is in your reply. I posted, without comment, a story on the issue being discussed.You then come up with a load of fantasist nonsense about tv, bad guys, good guys and perverted rape denials. You do remember the “ beheaded babies” lie.? I have absolutely no doubt that there are many primal screams being used in Gaza and Isreal right now.Whether these rape accounts are all true, partly true, made up or whatever, I have no idea.There are a number of points around this issue that demand caution. As I’m sure you are aware, the first casualty in war is truth. On both sides. As an aside do you have evidence that Al Jazeera fund Hamas?

[MKHIBEE]

[QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525345][QUOTE=MKHIBEE;7525334]

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Qatar funds Hamas and shelters the leaders, Al Jazeera is owned by the same people. Not believing rape victims and independent observers isn't nuanced or showing caution its misogyny or antisemitism.

I know the leaders are in Qatar. I asked if you had evidence Al Jazeera funded Hamas. I suggest if you haven’t it’s best not to double down on such a claim.

[Stairway 2 7]

[QUOTE=MKHIBEE;7525350][QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525345]

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I know the leaders are in Qatar. I asked if you had evidence Al Jazeera funded Hamas. I suggest if you haven’t it’s best not to double down on such a claim.

No Qatar funds Hamas its not even disputed and Al Jazeera is Qatari state owned. Obviously al Jazeera doesn't fund Hamas its a media channel, its owners do its not that complicated a web

https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/lretnzx9l

[Stairway 2 7]

Pretty interesting while almost no one over 65 doesn't believe, around 20% of under 35s don't believe the holocaust happened. Antisemitism is a massive problem, we should maybe be like Germany and take it seriously.
GA3LkcHbkAAZ1tc.jpg


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...locaust-report

Al-Jazeera has suspended two journalists after they published a video that suggested Jews had exploited their supposed control of media, financial and academic institutions to exaggerate the extent of the Holocaust.

The video was uploaded with the caption: “The gas chambers killed millions of Jews … So the story says. How true is the #Holocaust and how did the Zionists benefit from it?”

[MKHIBEE]

[QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525351][QUOTE=MKHIBEE;7525350]

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No Qatar funds Hamas its not even disputed and Al Jazeera is Qatari state owned. Obviously al Jazeera doesn't fund Hamas its a media channel, its owners do its not that complicated a web

https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechne...icle/lretnzx9l

Your previous comment

“Truth usually lies in the middle. I wouldn't necessarily trust Israel, Hamas, the US or Al Jazeera Qatar owned funders of Hamas”

[Stairway 2 7]

[QUOTE=MKHIBEE;7525364][QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525351]

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Your previous comment

“Truth usually lies in the middle. I wouldn't necessarily trust Israel, Hamas, the US or Al Jazeera Qatar owned funders of Hamas”

Yes I meant Qatar are the funders of Hamas, I made that pretty clear in multiple replies to be fair. Al Jazeera couldn't possibly be claimed to be impartial, either could the times of Israel.

[MKHIBEE]

[QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525366][QUOTE=MKHIBEE;7525364]

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Yes I meant Qatar are the funders of Hamas, I made that pretty clear in multiple replies to be fair. Al Jazeera couldn't possibly be claimed to be impartial, either could the times of Israel.

Fair enough. I have no doubt you are right

[Pretty Boy]

I was at Mass this morning.

It's the 2nd Sunday of Advent and the 2nd candle on the wreath symbolises peace. In some Christian traditions it is also called the Bethlehem Candle. This year the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem is to remain in darkness throughout Advent and Christmastide and the Patriarchs and Bishops of the various denominations who multilaterally officiate the Church have asked Christians around the world who light candles on the Advent wreath to refrain from lighting the 2nd candle both today and in the coming weeks as a gesture of solidarity.

Of course some may see that as tokenism and as a futile gesture and I understand that. The decision to leave the Nativity Church in darkness is at least in part because it was felt it was inappropriate to show overt signs of celebration in the West Bank given the events in Gaza. There is a deeper reason though. Christians in the West Bank, along with their Muslim neighbours, are regularly subjected to low level intimidation and their access to their places of worship is periodically interrupted by the IDF and local armed 'settlers'. Anecdotally this is increasingly the case in Bethlehem. It has certainly been seen at Easter in recent years with members of the Orthodox Churches denied access to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem for the Holy Fire ceremony and other pilgrims intermittently verbally abused or spat upon.

I daresay for many such things are largely irrelevant. There's little love for organised religion so who cares? However when you see images today of the Israeli flag planted right in the centre of Gaza City and Palestinians being told to move even further south (final destination Egypt?), when you see Muslims regularly denied entry to the Al-Aqsa Mosque, Christians finding entry to their places of worship and pilgrimage increasingly difficult and the currently escalating, but under reported, driving of Christians and Muslims out of their homes in the West Bank then it starts to seem relevant. It feels like we have gone from seeing a potentially understandable if disproportionate response to Hamas violence to now seeing an assertion of religious extremism playing out in real time and rather than condemnation from around the world it's being done with international approval, tacit or otherwise.

It's almost impossible to see how this current situation ends with a two state solution and shared governance of religious sites ever being back on the table. Israel now knows that there is no requirement to make such concessions.