SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Paul1642]

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1. A lot of people work in the arts sector and need this funding to survive.

2. During Covid the arts sector did amazing work to keep peoples spirits up. We need them.

Not denying that the art sector has a place in society however it has the potential to generate income and doesn’t due to due to general lack of interest.

Policing, Schools, Prisons, Courts, Councils, Social work, the fire service and of course NHS are all on their knees and I don’t think it’s unfair to say that for the genaral population these things are considerably more important (even if they don’t directly use them) and the importance of these sectors combined with underfunding is creating a genuine threat to life in cases and a reduction to quality of life in others.

Other than council tax (limited once again today) none of these can raise any money themselves.

In an ideal world I’d be all for increasing funding to the art sector but in the current economy situation, at the expense of the other sectors mentioned above is just not justifiable IMO. £100 million over 5 years would be a lot more than a drop in the ocean to most of these sectors.

The jobs being saved / lost is negligible because jobs would be saved / lost in other sectors over 100 millions.

Having cops to attend immediate response calls and help people in danger / crisis, learning assistants to help our snowed under teachers / vulnerable kids, social work to help the families that they need it most ect or a few more ambulances on the road to attend medical emergencies is more important than keeping the spirits up if a small minority who are interested in art during the next pandemic.

It shouldn’t be one or the other but unfortunately it is.

[Ozyhibby]

Political editor of the Scotsman.


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[grunt]

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In an ideal world I’d be all for increasing funding to the art sector but in the current economy situation, at the expense of the other sectors mentioned above is just not justifiable IMO.

Life without the arts is not worth living.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Political editor of the Scotsman.


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Reform is a separate argument to freezing it.

[marinello59]

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Political editor of the Scotsman.


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The SNP promised to scrap the council tax and had the opportunity to do it, they chose not to. Restoring the council tax freeze is a truly horrendous decision given that they know the damage and legacy left by the previous freeze. Shame on them.

[Stairway 2 7]

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1. A lot of people work in the arts sector and need this funding to survive.

2. During Covid the arts sector did amazing work to keep peoples spirits up. We need them.

I agree. Culture shouldn't be competing against our services as it will never win. You could then argue all music and art and culture funding should be cancelled as long as there is one hungry child. Sell off art galleries and museums that make a loss to feed the hungry.

That's looking at half the equation. Culture is one of the uk/Scots biggest export and contributer. These figures are uk but I reckon with the festival and our pop we probably do better per head. These are old figures but a good example. Uk gov was £440million but that brought in £48bil and 365,000 jobs. Its a huge sector and many of these jobs will go without support

That's a matter of fact financial view but more than that culture is important to a joyful place to live

"Based on the Arts Council England report commissioned from the Centre for Economic and Business Research (CEBR), the arts and culture industry in 2016 was responsible for:

£21.2bn in direct turnover
£10.8bn in Gross Value Added (GVA), with £8.6bn of this generated by the market segment of the industry and the remaining £2.2bn contributed by the non-market organisations
137,250 jobs
£6.1bn in employee compensation
When indirect and induced effects are also added in, the arts and culture industry is estimated to have supported £48bn in turnover, £23bn in GVA, 363,713 jobs and £13.4bn in employee compensation"

"The Arts Council of England received total grant in aid of £440.1m"



https://www.thecreativeindustries.co.uk/facts-figures/industries-arts-culture-arts-culture-facts-and-figures-the-economic-contribution-of-the-arts

[Pretty Boy]

A council tax freeze is the final nail in coffin when it comes to the chance of me voting SNP, a hideous, populist policy that will be devastating for the poorest in our society.

My local library used to run loads of great classes for parents and kids, the elderly etc. Vast majority have stopped now and library only opens 3 days a week. My daughter has been out of school multiple times because the funding isn't there to pay teachers, teaching assistants, catering staff etc etc in schools a fair wage, we had rubbish piling up in the streets because the money wasn't there to pay refuse workers a fair wage and the central government solution is to heap further pressure on those budgets by freezing council tax to try and buy votes because for some there is an inexplicable preference for £5 in your pocket paid for by £10 worth of cuts.

They can GTF.

[grunt]

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... £5 in your pocket paid for by £10 worth of cuts.

Why does £5 less income result in £10 of cuts to services?

[grunt]

Sarwar attacked the SNP in Holyrood last month on the cost of living impact of expected increases in Council Tax. Now that they have frozen CT, will he congratulate them on listening to his words? Or will he be a hypocrite and attack them for the CT freeze? I wonder.

[Ozyhibby]

The problem here isn’t that there is going to be a tax cut or rise. Politicians will always respond to what the public wants.
The problem is who is setting it. The FM should be nowhere near local taxation. The way the UK state is set up is far too centralised.
This is Labour and Tory policy as well and the SNP are merely matching it in order to avoid electoral defeat. It’s a crap policy that is necessary because we have a poorly designed form of govt.
And it’s a UK problem as Starmer has the exact same policy in England. Should a PM be involved in setting council tax rates?


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[superfurryhibby]

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A council tax freeze is the final nail in coffin when it comes to the chance of me voting SNP, a hideous, populist policy that will be devastating for the poorest in our society.

My local library used to run loads of great classes for parents and kids, the elderly etc. Vast majority have stopped now and library only opens 3 days a week. My daughter has been out of school multiple times because the funding isn't there to pay teachers, teaching assistants, catering staff etc etc in schools a fair wage, we had rubbish piling up in the streets because the money wasn't there to pay refuse workers a fair wage and the central government solution is to heap further pressure on those budgets by freezing council tax to try and buy votes because for some there is an inexplicable preference for £5 in your pocket paid for by £10 worth of cuts.

They can GTF.

We can add the devastation of social care services to that list of shame. Social work operating on a crisis basis, social care provision stripped to the absolute bone, with councils commissioning from dubious companies set up to take advantage of the sponsorship scheme and doing little by way of quality assurance, until the **** hits the fan (which it is, big time).

As I have said before, it's a finite pot of cash and we have to prioritise where it's spent, regardless of which budget it supposedly comes from, hence why I find tram extension proposals to be insanity in the face of what is happening to our communities in Edinburgh.

The Council Tax should have been more equitably reformed years ago, alongside other key issues The SNP have not only failed to deliver independence ( an aim that many "supporters" saw as paramount, taking precedence over their avoidance of measures which might have been damaging to the wider cause), they have failed to protect communities.

Sadly, the mainstream alternatives are not really alternatives, Labour-Tory cheeks of the same scabby arse. I've voted for the SNP since Labour ****** it up under Kinnock, never have I felt more disillusioned by them than the past few years. They have had a mandate for change for many and didn't use it effectively enough.

[Jack]

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A council tax freeze is the final nail in coffin when it comes to the chance of me voting SNP, a hideous, populist policy that will be devastating for the poorest in our society.

My local library used to run loads of great classes for parents and kids, the elderly etc. Vast majority have stopped now and library only opens 3 days a week. My daughter has been out of school multiple times because the funding isn't there to pay teachers, teaching assistants, catering staff etc etc in schools a fair wage, we had rubbish piling up in the streets because the money wasn't there to pay refuse workers a fair wage and the central government solution is to heap further pressure on those budgets by freezing council tax to try and buy votes because for some there is an inexplicable preference for £5 in your pocket paid for by £10 worth of cuts.

They can GTF.

While I don't agree with the policies, much for the reasons you've outlined as the great Rod Petrie once said to me "Be careful what you wish for".

The torys don't stand a chance so I'd imagine that Labour are the likely alternative to the SNP.

Copy and paste English policies into Scotland, even if they're not appropriate? Is Wales doing better than Scotland?

I can understand yours and others position, I'm party there myself, but the alternative doesn't look any better.

For the first time in a while I'll be voting for the least worst!

[Stairway 2 7]

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Sarwar attacked the SNP in Holyrood last month on the cost of living impact of expected increases in Council Tax. Now that they have frozen CT, will he congratulate them on listening to his words? Or will he be a hypocrite and attack them for the CT freeze? I wonder.

Probably be a hypocrit as he's an erse. Labour being awful doesn't excuse the horrible decision by snp

[Stairway 2 7]

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While I don't agree with the policies, much for the reasons you've outlined as the great Rod Petrie once said to me "Be careful what you wish for".

The torys don't stand a chance so I'd imagine that Labour are the likely alternative to the SNP.

Copy and paste English policies into Scotland, even if they're not appropriate? Is Wales doing better than Scotland?

I can understand yours and others position, I'm party there myself, but the alternative doesn't look any better.

For the first time in a while I'll be voting for the least worst!

I like the idea of none of the above but in reality that's pointless. I'll hold my nose and vote SNP as they are still best of the rest.

[grunt]

Labour in Scotland must be happy today

[Stairway 2 7]

Council tax freeze is not going down well STUC, the greens and COSLA have came out and critised

Shona Robinson says the decision was only 24 to 48 hours before the conference so it wasn't signed off by the cabinet. She said because of the timescale it meant councils and COSLA weren't informed before hand

[Ozyhibby]

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Council tax freeze is not going down well STUC, the greens and COSLA have came out and critised

Shona Robinson says the decision was only 24 to 48 hours before the conference so it wasn't signed off by the cabinet. She said because of the timescale it meant councils and COSLA weren't informed before hand

It’s a flat out political response to not lose votes. Zero thought from any party has went into this on whether it’s the right thing to do. It’s about what gets the voters out. Labour judged it right in Rutherglen and the SNP is having to react.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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It’s a flat out political response to not lose votes. Zero thought from any party has went into this on whether it’s the right thing to do. It’s about what gets the voters out. Labour judged it right in Rutherglen and the SNP is having to react.


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Voters including SNP voters want lower income tax, would that be justifiable too. Populist policies are popular, tories make a living out of them

https://archive.ph/flh8b

[marinello59]

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Council tax freeze is not going down well STUC, the greens and COSLA have came out and critised

Shona Robinson says the decision was only 24 to 48 hours before the conference so it wasn't signed off by the cabinet. She said because of the timescale it meant councils and COSLA weren't informed before hand

It makes you wonder if any real thought was put in to this at all or it was just a case of ditch the principles now and worry about it later. I can only hope they are fully expecting to be forced in to a u turn after having had their headline.

[Ozyhibby]

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Voters including SNP voters want lower income tax, would that be justifiable too. Populist policies are popular, tories make a living out of them

https://archive.ph/flh8b

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the bands move in line with the rUK in time for election but still keep the top rate.


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[Jones28]

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Why does £5 less income result in £10 of cuts to services?

They’re robbing Peter to pay Paul for relatively little political credit.

Councils everywhere are out on their ***** and they desperately wed the extra funding.

[JimBHibees]

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Council tax freeze is not going down well STUC, the greens and COSLA have came out and critised

Shona Robinson says the decision was only 24 to 48 hours before the conference so it wasn't signed off by the cabinet. She said because of the timescale it meant councils and COSLA weren't informed before hand

Genuinely don't know the answer but I thought it was up to councils to decide on council tax increases hence the reason there are different increases dependent on council. Assume snp government can override that?

[marinello59]

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Genuinely don't know the answer but I thought it was up to councils to decide on council tax increases hence the reason there are different increases dependent on council. Assume snp government can override that?

It’s up to the councils to set the rate but what the Scottish Government will do if they defy them is cut their central funding meaning there will be no benefit in raising the rate. (They’d actually end up worse off.)
That’s democracy apparently.

[JimBHibees]

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It’s up to the councils to set the rate but what the Scottish Government will do if they defy them is cut their central funding meaning there will be no benefit in raising the rate. (They’d actually end up worse off.)
That’s democracy apparently.

So cut their funding by the amount of increase? Seems a strange system to be honest. Also strange re council democracy that a party getting most seats can end up out of power if other parties tactically work together imo.

[J-C]

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So cut their funding by the amount of increase? Seems a strange system to be honest. Also strange re council democracy that a party getting most seats can end up out of power if other parties tactically work together imo.

But did that party get an overall majority, having the most seats only works if it's more than the rest, if not then you have to form an alliance.

[Ozyhibby]

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It’s up to the councils to set the rate but what the Scottish Government will do if they defy them is cut their central funding meaning there will be no benefit in raising the rate. (They’d actually end up worse off.)
That’s democracy apparently.

It’s probably the worst form of local govt in Europe. There is zero accountability. The way the UK is structured means it is failing us all. Every level of govt relies on grants from London. It doesn’t really matter what you elect locally. Whatever London decides is what you get.


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[Ozyhibby]

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But did that party get an overall majority, having the most seats only works if it's more than the rest, if not then you have to form an alliance.

Agree. That’s a function of PR and should be welcomed.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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It’s up to the councils to set the rate but what the Scottish Government will do if they defy them is cut their central funding meaning there will be no benefit in raising the rate. (They’d actually end up worse off.)
That’s democracy apparently.

Yeah some councils have said they will go ahead with the rises. They are for the higher bands only. Its now going to be up to the SNP to punish them by cutting their funding in response. It's going to drag on and set up wars between government and councils

[marinello59]

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It’s probably the worst form of local govt in Europe. There is zero accountability. The way the UK is structured means it is failing us all. Every level of govt relies on grants from London. It doesn’t really matter what you elect locally. Whatever London decides is what you get.


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Cutting funding further by forcing councils to freeze the Council Tax is all on the Scottish Government though, their choice.

[Ozyhibby]

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Cutting funding further by forcing councils to freeze the Council Tax is all on the Scottish Government though, their choice.

Voters choice though isn’t it? They have sent a clear message. Cut council tax or you are out. Can’t blame SG for listening. And any other party would do the same which is why Labour are backing this move 100%.


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