SNP are lying b******s as well !

[grunt]

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One poll so useless on its own, only significant as its the lowest snp score in 9 years. It won't play out like that, but it's clear SNP haven't bottomed out in polls.

One of those polls I find difficult to believe. Who decides to change their vote to the lying Tories after their performance at conference? Incredible.

[Stairway 2 7]

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One of those polls I find difficult to believe. Who decides to change their vote to the lying Tories after their performance at conference? Incredible.

Unfortunately that's 3 polls in a row in Scotland with a rise in the Tory vote, disgusting. Thankfully UK wide they have fallen after the conference.

[grunt]

It's all over. Close down Holyrood, it's time for us all to go home.

[neil7908]

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Unfortunately that's 3 polls in a row in Scotland with a rise in the Tory vote, disgusting. Thankfully UK wide they have fallen after the conference.

I'm completely baffled by people. It's natural after this long in Government, the current cost of living crisis, Sturgeon under investigation etc that people will be turning away from the SNP.

But the Tories?? Totally bizarre, especially at a time when Labour are bending over backwards to appeal to Tory voters.

[Moulin Yarns]

Humza reintroduces the council tax freeze!!!

[Ozyhibby]

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Humza reintroduces the council tax freeze!!!

Inevitable after Labour’s success in Rutherglen in attacking the rises in the top bands. If something doesn’t work electorally then it has to be dropped.


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[Moulin Yarns]

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Inevitable after Labour’s success in Rutherglen in attacking the rises in the top bands. If something doesn’t work electorally then it has to be dropped.


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Sorry oz but a promise to reform it was the best option for everyone.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Inevitable after Labour’s success in Rutherglen in attacking the rises in the top bands. If something doesn’t work electorally then it has to be dropped.


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That's what you slam Labour for, pandering to voters. It's a poor idea when councils are struggling. It obviously needs reforming though and they have had over a decade to do it

[Ozyhibby]

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Sorry oz but a promise to reform it was the best option for everyone.

He did that as well but I doubt it will happen. It can’t be reformed in isolation and as it’s one of very few taxes we have control over it just can’t be done.


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[Ozyhibby]

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That's what you slam Labour for, pandering to voters. It's a poor idea when councils are struggling. It obviously needs reforming though and they have had over a decade to do it

Voters want it frozen.
It can’t be reformed without control over other tax powers.
My preference would be for all local funding to be devolved but it just can’t happen without permission from London.


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[Paul1642]

Not a fan of today’s announcements overall, especially the council tax freeze at a time when local authorities are completely skint. Edinburgh councils proposals for next year were as follows:

“ Under the proposals, people in Band E would pay 7.5 per cent more in council tax, those in Band F properties would see a 12.5 per cent increase, bills for Band G houses would rise by 17.5 per cent and Band H households would see the biggest rises at 22.5 per cent”.

Whilst a 7.5% rise as a band E owner wasn’t exactly what I wanted I completely agree with the need for councils to raise more tax and feel that adjusting the scales upwards in the proposed manner was the best way to go at the moment. Whilst I shouldn’t complain at not paying an extra £190 next year, when spit over 10 months I would much rather pay £19 a month than see our already screwed council make more cuts.

I work in East and Midlothian and can confirm that their councils are as cash strapped as ours and it’s probably fair to assume the issue is Scotland (and UK) wide.

2) 100 million for arts and culture over 5 years. Sorry but this just isn’t a priory for me when people are struggling to survive and the whole public sector is in turmoil. Money which should be spent elsewhere right now.

I’m on board with the rest of the plans which are

£500 million towards offshore wind power.
£500k towards domestic abuse victims.
£400k for high street developments
£300 million towards cutting NHS waiting lists.

The Gaza resettlement comments are a different political issue best left for another thread IMO.

I don’t understand the offshore bond idea enough to have an opinion. Hopefully someone on here can elaborate what this means in reality.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Voters want it frozen.
It can’t be reformed without control over other tax powers.
My preference would be for all local funding to be devolved but it just can’t happen without permission from London.


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It can be and they said they would do it multiple times but that's a separate argument.

It should have risen as it actually means a huge cut to councils due to inflation. I'd prefer a rise in higher bands personally.

When Starmer does stuff to get elected its terrible but Yousaf its just sensible to get elected.

Most Scots want to pay the same tax as England a poll showed this week. Should we lower it to match as Scots want it or do what's right

[superfurryhibby]

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Voters want it frozen.
It can’t be reformed without control over other tax powers.
My preference would be for all local funding to be devolved but it just can’t happen without permission from London.


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Not sure what your response means, perhaps too rushed?

They can reform the council tax though

"A council tax revaluation for homes in Scotland is urgently needed for child poverty targets to be met, an advisory commission has said.

The Poverty and Inequality Commission says it is one of a series of measures needed by the Scottish Government to improve the tax system.

But it has warned that SNP ministers have lacked "political will" to bring forward long-promised revaluation plans for council tax"

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...x-revaluation/

Older article-https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30215510

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has announced a commission to look at alternatives to the council tax.

Here, BBC Scotland's local government correspondent Jamie McIvor assesses some of the options.

Replacing the council tax has long been an SNP ambition but it has proved easier said than done.

In 2007, the party advocated replacing it with a "local income tax". In practice, this would have used Holyrood's power to raise income tax by 3p to help replace the money raised by council tax.

The parliament backed the idea of a local income tax but it proved impossible for the minority SNP administration to win enough support for its actual proposal.

Instead came the council tax freeze which survives to the present day and which the government expects to continue until 2017.

[Ozyhibby]

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Not sure what your response means, perhaps too rushed?

They can reform the council tax though

"A council tax revaluation for homes in Scotland is urgently needed for child poverty targets to be met, an advisory commission has said.

The Poverty and Inequality Commission says it is one of a series of measures needed by the Scottish Government to improve the tax system.

But it has warned that SNP ministers have lacked "political will" to bring forward long-promised revaluation plans for council tax"

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...x-revaluation/

Older article-https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30215510

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has announced a commission to look at alternatives to the council tax.

Here, BBC Scotland's local government correspondent Jamie McIvor assesses some of the options.

Replacing the council tax has long been an SNP ambition but it has proved easier said than done.

In 2007, the party advocated replacing it with a "local income tax". In practice, this would have used Holyrood's power to raise income tax by 3p to help replace the money raised by council tax.

The parliament backed the idea of a local income tax but it proved impossible for the minority SNP administration to win enough support for its actual proposal.

Instead came the council tax freeze which survives to the present day and which the government expects to continue until 2017.

Those are two examples of failure to reform.
Proper reform of council tax within the current devolved set up is very very difficult to do. Even if a way could be found, it would almost certainly be attacked in a way that burned through a lot of political capital. I think we can all agree the SNP do not have the political capital to spare just now.


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[Ozyhibby]

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It can be and they said they would do it multiple times but that's a separate argument.

It should have risen as it actually means a huge cut to councils due to inflation. I'd prefer a rise in higher bands personally.

When Starmer does stuff to get elected its terrible but Yousaf its just sensible to get elected.

Most Scots want to pay the same tax as England a poll showed this week. Should we lower it to match as Scots want it or do what's right

I don’t think we are anywhere close to Starmer levels of political shape shifting.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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Those are two examples of failure to reform.
Proper reform of council tax within the current devolved set up is very very difficult to do. Even if a way could be found, it would almost certainly be attacked in a way that burned through a lot of political capital. I think we can all agree the SNP do not have the political capital to spare just now.


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They have had plenty of capital in the last 12 years and said they could and would.

They could easily have allowed the councils to raise it.

They are giving the councils huge cuts to help get voted in. If Labour did it SNP voters would rightly slam it

[Stairway 2 7]

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I don’t think we are anywhere close to Starmer levels of political shape shifting.


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SNP back to "we're bad but were not as bad as..."

This is madness. Councils are toiling. Housing, homelessness services, drug services will all be effected. Its OK though as its good for votes

[Ozyhibby]

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They have had plenty of capital in the last 12 years and said they could and would.

They could easily have allowed the councils to raise it.

They are giving the councils huge cuts to help get voted in. If Labour did it SNP voters would rightly slam it

I’m not supportive of it. I was happy with the plan to raise the top bands. It wasn’t going to happen though because people don’t want it and it would have cost them the election.
At which point, your out of power and still don’t have higher council tax. A lose lose for the SNP.

Labour campaigned against the rise in the higher council tax bands and they won. It would be madness not to recognise that. Fair play to Labour, they saw what people wanted and went with it. The SNP can’t carry on with a policy that will deliver a Labour govt at Holyrood. That puts at risk lots of other things we do here that Labour don’t do in Wales.

[Ozyhibby]

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SNP back to "we're bad but were not as bad as..."

This is madness. Councils are toiling. Housing, homelessness services, drug services will all be effected. Its OK though as its good for votes

If you don’t win, it doesn’t really matter what your policy is. This change is backed by Labour and the Tories. The reason for that is people want it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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If you don’t win, it doesn’t really matter what your policy is. This change is backed by Labour and the Tories. The reason for that is people want it.


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Same energy when Starmer goes for policies that gets him in power. SNP could have raised it in the past when they had loads of capital.

You didn't answer though. Should they lower taxes to the same as England as that's what the public want. Its obviously no as it will cause harm, this is the same.

Also the party has been focusing on policies for the last year that they public don't care about but lots hate like GRA.

[Paul1642]

I don’t think a complete overhaul of the council tax system is the right way to go or even realisticly possible to be honest, which is probably why the SNP swerved it when they were in a position to deliver this.

What is defiantly needed however is a revelation of the currently bands / valuation system.

A lot has changed in the last 32 years since they were set and some once cheaper areas are now very affluent whilst others will be much less desirable than they once were.

I just had a quick glance on ESPC and there are flats in leith on the market for more than I could sell my home for which are band C, therefore paying almost £800 a year less in council tax than I am.

I don’t have the exact answer as to how this would be assessed as changing the band after a sale would benefit those who don’t move house for a long time, and basing it on local area average price would need to find a way to factor in the fact that some houses in a street are bigger than others and that the properties one street over can be drastically different in value.

Maybe some fomulae combining street sale prices over a 5 year period, square footage and number of bedrooms.

The current system certainly isn’t fit for purpose.

[superfurryhibby]

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Those are two examples of failure to reform.
Proper reform of council tax within the current devolved set up is very very difficult to do. Even if a way could be found, it would almost certainly be attacked in a way that burned through a lot of political capital. I think we can all agree the SNP do not have the political capital to spare just now.


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They have had 16 years in government to take action. They failed to deliver reform when they had the momentum to do so.

[Stairway 2 7]

What's obvious is it shouldn't have been frozen. Most councils were freezing the first few bands so in general this is a pay off to the better off at the expense of councils who will have to make cuts

[Jack]

How many manifesto pledges by all political parties have not been introduced since the SNP said anything about reforming council tax?

And why is this the only one that is continually brought up?

Just wondering 🤔

[Hiber-nation]

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I don’t think a complete overhaul of the council tax system is the right way to go or even realisticly possible to be honest, which is probably why the SNP swerved it when they were in a position to deliver this.

What is defiantly needed however is a revelation of the currently bands / valuation system.

A lot has changed in the last 32 years since they were set and some once cheaper areas are now very affluent whilst others will be much less desirable than they once were.

I just had a quick glance on ESPC and there are flats in leith on the market for more than I could sell my home for which are band C, therefore paying almost £800 a year less in council tax than I am.

I don’t have the exact answer as to how this would be assessed as changing the band after a sale would benefit those who don’t move house for a long time, and basing it on local area average price would need to find a way to factor in the fact that some houses in a street are bigger than others and that the properties one street over can be drastically different in value.

Maybe some fomulae combining street sale prices over a 5 year period, square footage and number of bedrooms.

The current system certainly isn’t fit for purpose.

Yep using values of 32 years ago is ridiculous. I used to deal with some of this stuff when I worked in the SG and the consensus was that it would be too expensive for what would be a big shock to the system for some. Missed chance today, a freeze isn't going to fool people.

[Stairway 2 7]

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How many manifesto pledges by all political parties have not been introduced since the SNP said anything about reforming council tax?

And why is this the only one that is continually brought up?

Just wondering 🤔

I'm not bothered about them not reforming I'm bothered about them cutting funds for councils in real terms, when councils are at breaking point. I'm actually stunned they are, a horrible populist decision

[Paul1642]

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How many manifesto pledges by all political parties have not been introduced since the SNP said anything about reforming council tax?

And why is this the only one that is continually brought up?

Just wondering 🤔

Not being brought up for any reason other than being relevant to today’s announcement.

Labour have been out of power so long that no one can remember their failed pledges. I didn’t think many on here believe a word that comes out the Tory’s mouths anyway however their failed pledges do get brought up all the time on the Tory thread (see HS2 for most recent example)

[Ozyhibby]

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I'm not bothered about them not reforming I'm bothered about them cutting funds for councils in real terms, when councils are at breaking point. I'm actually stunned they are, a horrible populist decision

I’m not saying it is a good policy. I would prefer a full reform of the whole system of local taxation. Nobody else does though. Lots of people say they do but the first sign of it and they immediately indicate they will vote for the other guy. That’s why it doesn’t happen.
People say they want one thing but vote for the other.
The SNP have taken note and changed course. If they hadn’t, all they would have been left with is a moral victory.


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[superfurryhibby]

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How many manifesto pledges by all political parties have not been introduced since the SNP said anything about reforming council tax?

And why is this the only one that is continually brought up?

Just wondering 🤔

Because they are government of Scotland and had the power not to make changes?

We can rip the pish oot of the Tories on another thread ;-)

[grunt]

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2) 100 million for arts and culture over 5 years. Sorry but this just isn’t a priory for me when people are struggling to survive and the whole public sector is in turmoil. Money which should be spent elsewhere right now.

1. A lot of people work in the arts sector and need this funding to survive.

2. During Covid the arts sector did amazing work to keep peoples spirits up. We need them.