Congestion charges and low emission zones

[Ged]

There are interest free loans available for used electric vehicles.

https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/gra...-vehicle-loan/

You can even charge them easily at home if you have a charge point linked to your solar panels!

I appreciate that electric might not work well for the OP because of the distances involved.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Glasgow’s does come in this year, that’s right


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1st June, residents get to 1st June 2024

[Edina Street]

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There are interest free loans available for used electric vehicles.

https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/gra...-vehicle-loan/

You can even charge them easily at home if you have a charge point linked to your solar panels!

I appreciate that electric might not work well for the OP because of the distances involved.

Thanks for that link. That might come in handy for me in the near future. However I suspect you're right, I might have to wait until scientists have improved the distances of how far electric vehicles can travel.

[JeMeSouviens]

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I assume there's a significant variation in the emission outputs of the engines before/after those cut off points?

Diesel cars, and buses/HGVs, have a surprisingly recent year attributed to them.

A general wondering in case you/anyone knows- I'm not blaming you personally for the cut-off points incase it's coming across that way.

IT's NO MA FAULT!


Tables here - https://dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php#stds

For diesel cars the big difference between Euro 5 and Euro 6 is NOx (nitric oxide + nitrogen dioxide) which gets cut from 0.18g/km to 0.08.



From - https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...gen-oxides-nox

Nitrogen oxides (NOx) are a group of gases that are mainly formed during the combustion of fossil fuels. The dominant portion of these gases is nitric oxide (NO). However, NO can react with other gases in the atmosphere to form nitrogen dioxide (NO2) which is harmful to health. These reactions take place very quickly and are reversible, so the two gases are referred to together as NOx.

In the most recent annual air quality assessment (for 2020), the UK was non-compliant with the limit value placed on the annual mean NO2 concentration at a small number of roadside locations in urban areas. A large reduction in road traffic activity in 2020 following the onset of the Covid-19 pandemic contributed to a substantial reduction in average roadside NO2 concentrations in 2020 compared to previous years. It has been estimated that on average 68 per cent of roadside NOx concentrations originated from road transport emissions in 2020.

Short-term exposure to concentrations of NO2 can cause inflammation of the airways and increase susceptibility to respiratory infections and to allergens. NO2 can exacerbate the symptoms of those already suffering from lung or heart conditions. In addition, NOx can cause changes to the environment. Deposition of Nitrogen to the environment both directly as a gas (dry deposition) and in precipitation (wet deposition) can change soil chemistry and affect biodiversity in sensitive habitats.

Nitrogen oxides are also precursors for the formation of ozone. Ozone is a gas which is also damaging to human health and can trigger inflammation of the respiratory tract, eyes, nose and throat as well as asthma attacks. Moreover, ozone can have adverse effects on the environment through oxidative damage to vegetation including crops.

[grunt]

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For all the flak he gets (justifiably so in many cases) the guy is an environmentalist and was responsible for some good policies in that area.

Indeed. Here he is providing invaluable input to the discussions at COP26 in Glasgow.

[JeMeSouviens]

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For all the flak he gets (justifiably so in many cases) the guy is an environmentalist and was responsible for some good policies in that area.

If the inside chatter of political gossip is true, it's Carrie Antoinette that's the environmentalist and he does what he's telt. tbh, I doubt he has an actual principled position on anything other than his own aggrandisement.

[danhibees1875]

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IT's NO MA FAULT!


Tables here - https://dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php#stds

For diesel cars the big difference between Euro 5 and Euro 6 is NOx (nitric oxide + nitrogen dioxide) which gets cut from 0.18g/km to 0.08.



From - https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...gen-oxides-nox

Thanks.

Quite a significant jump in the numbers for a petrol motor between euro 3 and 4!

I'm not sure how many pre-05 cars are still going about right enough.

[Edina Street]

Maybe the Edinburgh Council need to take note regarding what is currently going on in London. A gang named the Blade Runners have disabled 81% of ULEZ cameras in South London. Every single YouTube video regarding the Blade Runners has almost 100% support from the people in the comment sections.

[lapsedhibee]

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Maybe the Edinburgh Council need to take note regarding what is currently going on in London. A gang named the Blade Runners have disabled 81% of ULEZ cameras in South London. Every single YouTube video regarding the Blade Runners has almost 100% support from the people in the comment sections.

Take note and do what? Draft in a whole lot more polis?

[Ozyhibby]

Some people just want a world without rules. And they are all idiots.


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[Edina Street]

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Some people just want a world without rules. And they are all idiots.


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Yeah, idiots are tearing down the cameras, whilst smart London traders are getting the train upto Scotland, buying a ULEZ compliant car in Scotland for £13,000, then driving it down the A1 and M1 and selling it for £15,000 in London that evening. I actually know a Londoner that is making a lot of money doing this. But he says that it will not go on forever. I should imagine the closer we come to June in Edinburgh, the more it will cost to purchase a compliant vehicle in our area, and we may even have a few smart traders that make a lot of money out of this simply by travelling to other areas where compliant vehicles are not in such high demand.

I am not sure I am 100% impressed with this though. There must be something wrong when wideboys are able to get rich quick out of council by-laws. Sounds like a cash cow to me.

[hibee]

My 2005 car was showing as non compliant on the Scottish site (but complaint in all English cities apart from Birmingham and Bristol) so I queried it with them as the NOx value on the V5 is 0.004 which is well below what it needs to be compliant. They replied 25 days later with a generic response that didn’t answer any of my questions.

I was aware from reading car forums that some of the English cities use the same database as Scotland so I sent the same enquiry to them and the next day received a response saying they agreed with me and had updated the database.

Not only did this fix the non complaint status in Birmingham and Bristol but the car is now also showing as compliant in Scotland.

It’s a good result but also ridiculous that I had to go to these lengths, many people won’t have a clue about NOx and just go ahead and scrap or sell a perfectly good car.

[Stairway 2 7]

Maybe a catalyst. 1 in 5 new cars in August fully electric

https://www.businessgreen.com/news/4...ugust-electric

[greenginger]

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My 2005 car was showing as non compliant on the Scottish site (but complaint in all English cities apart from Birmingham and Bristol) so I queried it with them as the NOx value on the V5 is 0.004 which is well below what it needs to be compliant. They replied 25 days later with a generic response that didn’t answer any of my questions.

I was aware from reading car forums that some of the English cities use the same database as Scotland so I sent the same enquiry to them and the next day received a response saying they agreed with me and had updated the database.

Not only did this fix the non complaint status in Birmingham and Bristol but the car is now also showing as compliant in Scotland.

It’s a good result but also ridiculous that I had to go to these lengths, many people won’t have a clue about NOx and just go ahead and scrap or sell a perfectly good car.

I just checked my other car, a 2002 convertible Peugeot , which was noted previously as non compliant for ULEZ now has a compliant tick on it.

Thanks for your investigation efforts.

[wookie70]

I had to pay one charge for the Villa game. Total pain as Google Maps didn't recognise ULEZ as a toll and saving 5 mins cost me £8. In a city like Birmingham which has lots of roundabouts, dual carraigeways etc combined with having no idea where I was going it was probably inevitable that I got caught. Quite annoying when I had no intention to go in and that £8 was 100 miles of journey on teh way down doing 75mpg. The city centre in Birmingham was a complete ghost town so I suppose the charges are in some way a success but I can't see how a city centre can function with so few people in it.

[Ozyhibby]

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I had to pay one charge for the Villa game. Total pain as Google Maps didn't recognise ULEZ as a toll and saving 5 mins cost me £8. In a city like Birmingham which has lots of roundabouts, dual carraigeways etc combined with having no idea where I was going it was probably inevitable that I got caught. Quite annoying when I had no intention to go in and that £8 was 100 miles of journey on teh way down doing 75mpg. The city centre in Birmingham was a complete ghost town so I suppose the charges are in some way a success but I can't see how a city centre can function with so few people in it.

As these changes bed in and cars leave the city centre, people will start to return in ever greater numbers. It happened in all the other countries it’s been done in. We are not special, it will happen here too.


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[Edina Street]

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As these changes bed in and cars leave the city centre, people will start to return in ever greater numbers. It happened in all the other countries it’s been done in. We are not special, it will happen here too.


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Something else that will happen here to, like what is happening in London right now, is that the LEZ will be expanded to cover the whole of Edinburgh, and the requirements for compliance will become stricter and stricter.

The people of Greater London are currently up in arms about the expansion of the ULEZ being spread out across the Suburbs all the way to the M25, and are taking to the streets.

They were ok with it when it was just Central London however, just like we currently are.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Am I correct in thinking that we’re euro4 for petrol and euro6 for diesel in Edinburgh but London is Euro6 across the board?

[Edina Street]

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Am I correct in thinking that we’re euro4 for petrol and euro6 for diesel in Edinburgh but London is Euro6 across the board?

• The ULEZ standards are:

• Euro 3 for motorcycles, mopeds, motorised tricycles and quadricycles (L category)
• Euro 4 (NOx) for petrol cars, vans, minibuses and other specialist vehicles.
• Euro 6 (NOx and PM) for diesel cars, vans and minibuses and other specialist vehicles.

That only tells half the story though:

Upto £400 per day for Lorries.

Also, it is untrue that you get 24 hours for your £400, as it operates from midnight. This puts lorries into "real" trouble, as a lot of them importing and exporting goods in and out of London do so late at night, as getting in and out of London during peak times before their tachographs expire is not always possible, so Lorries could actually face up to £800 for one single trip. Perhaps we have overestimated how rich haulage firms are, because many haulage firms are already taking a huge risk by not paying the charges, and instead going to court, and it is either win in court, or their haulage firm will need to close.

This is also true for cars. They advertise £12.50 per day. But this is only for day shift workers. For nightshift workers, such as NHS workers, it is actually £25 per day.

Sadiq Khan says that NHS night workers should use the tube. However the London tube gives off more pollution than the roads. And also, pretty young women walking the streets past midnight is a no no!

If they had any common sense they would allow a person 24hrs from the moment they enter the zone.
In fact, if they had any common sense, they would have launched a Grandfather scheme in 2015, whereby everyone would be allowed to drive their cars for as long as they wish, but when they decide to change their car, they must change it to a compliant car. If they had done this, most Londoners would have a compliant car by now.

[speedy_gonzales]

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Sadiq Khan says that NHS night workers should use the tube. However the London tube gives off more pollution than the roads.

As the protagonists on Twitter et al say, Citation needed! I'd be quite surprised that the tube gives off more pollution than roads per passenger/mile.

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And also, pretty young women walking the streets past midnight is a no no!

Huh! Only pretty women get raped or all NHS night workers are pretty young women? I'm sure you didn't mean it to come across that way?!?

[Edina Street]

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As the protagonists on Twitter et al say, Citation needed! I'd be quite surprised that the tube gives off more pollution than roads per passenger/mile.



Huh! Only pretty women get raped or all NHS night workers are pretty young women? I'm sure you didn't mean it to come across that way?!?

A Scientific study reported that the pollution in tube stations is 18 times worse than above ground.
https://www.bigissue.com/news/enviro...ir-london-tfl/

ULEZ protesters are arguing that it is farsical that Sadiq Khan is advising Londoners to get out of their cars and take the tube.

[Just Alf]

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A Scientific study reported that the pollution in tube stations is 18 times worse than above ground.
https://www.bigissue.com/news/enviro...ir-london-tfl/

ULEZ protesters are arguing that it is farsical that Sadiq Khan is advising Londoners to get out of their cars and take the tube.

Where the pollution coming from?
I thought the UG was all electric?

[Ozyhibby]

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Where the pollution coming from?
I thought the UG was all electric?

Dust. The tube is still the most environmentally friendly way to travel in London though. Not perfect but still better. And irreplaceable anyway. There is not enough road space for the cars it would take to replace it.


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[Moulin Yarns]

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• most Londoners would have a compliant car by now.

According to everything I've heard they do, around 90% of cars in London are compliant.

https://www.transportxtra.com/public...-data-reveals/

[Just Alf]

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Dust. The tube is still the most environmentally friendly way to travel in London though. Not perfect but still better. And irreplaceable anyway. There is not enough road space for the cars it would take to replace it.


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Ah... I do remember it being dusty right enough!

[grunt]

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However the London tube gives off more pollution than the roads.

Oh really?

[Edina Street]

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[/LIST]

According to everything I've heard they do, around 90% of cars in London are compliant.

https://www.transportxtra.com/public...-data-reveals/

You could be correct. But then I don't know why Sadiq Khan has purchased three armoured and bullet proof compliant Range-rovers, and paid armed security officers to sit in the passenger seats. This is not the usual behaviour for a London Mayor. It has been pointed out that even Boris Johnson used to commute on the tube and public services quite often, as do a lot of other high profile people, and they did so alone, not surrounded by armed security. So it sounds like Sadiq Khan himself is worried that he may have made some enemies that have resources which stretch beyond that of those in the lowest uncompliant 10%. The level of security he is currently employing would suggest he fears that he could have made enemies that can afford guns, or even afford to pay for assassinations.

Also a lot of the voices campaigning against the ULEZ are high profile people that also have complaint cars. It seems that a lot of the protesters are not necessarily part of the 10%, but are just up in arms about the fact that we appear to live in a "I'm ok Jack, society". They appear to be arguing that it is unfair to do this to the 10% that may be poor.

Other arguments are that it is just sending pollution to areas outside of London, and congesting and pollluting surrounding areas and roads which is just outright inconsiderate. Many of the protesters are also from those areas. Not themselves uncompliant.

However, the 10% claim is just a claim made by Sadiq Khan. Nigel Farage has claimed that this is another one of his lies. Farage claimed that in the first day of the expansion almost 40% of cars were found to be uncompliant.

Here is an example of a Hotel owner with a compliant car whom is against ULEZ.

[Ozyhibby]

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You could be correct. But then I don't know why Sadiq Khan has purchased three armoured and bullet proof compliant land-rovers, and paid armed security officers to sit in the passenger seats. This is not the usual behaviour for a London Mayor. It has been pointed out that even Boris Johnson used to commute on the tube and public services quite often, as do a lot of other high profile people.

Also a lot of the voices campaigning against the ULEZ are high profile people that also have complaint cars. It seems that a lot of the protesters are not necessarily part of the 10%, but are just up in arms about the fact that we appear to live in a "I'm ok Jack, society". They appear to be arguing that it is unfair to do this to the 10% that may be poor.

Other arguments are that it is just sending pollution to areas outside of London, and congesting and pollluting surrounding areas and roads which is just outright inconsiderate. Many of the protesters are also from those areas. Not themselves uncompliant.

However, the 10% claim is just a claim made by Sadiq Khan. Nigel Farage has claimed that this is another one of his lies. Farage claimed that in the first day of the expansion almost 40% of cars were found to be uncompliant.

The poorest in society suffer the most from pollution in cities.

https://www.unep.org/news-and-storie...%20is%20better.


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[Edina Street]

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The poorest in society suffer the most from pollution in cities.

https://www.unep.org/news-and-storie...%20is%20better.


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True, so why is he not banning Petrol and Diesel vehicles completely all over London? Why is it ok to pollute so long as you pay £12.50? (Or £400 if you are a 40 tonne lorry). Why is it ok to pollute and just have less Asthma sufferers rather than no Asthma sufferers?

Like other ULEZ campaigners in London, I personally either want to see a grandfather scheme put in place, or a complete ban on Petrol and Diesel vehicles. We all dance and go down together for the betterment of society at large. But the 90% don't appear to like this idea. What i don't want to see is anyone make Billions of pounds out of allowing people to die.

At least in Scotland it is a £60 fine which only increases every time you enter the zone, so that pretty much is as good as a blanket ban on non compliant vehicles, and they can't be accused of it just being a cash-cow, and it does not really effect me that much anymore as I have enough money saved up to buy a compliant van without even requiring finance. This was my initial main gripe with the LEZ in the first place, I feared that it would force me to have to turn my back on my philosophy of responsible living, which is to always stay out of debt, and pay everything upfront. Fortunately after a good year and no cruises, I am now in that position where I can afford a compliant van and remain out of the clutches of bankers and lenders having anything over me.

However I will watch this page with interest over the next few years and see if people from Edinburgh and Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen, are as happy when they first hear that the council are planning to extend the zone over the entire city with stricter regulations.

[lapsedhibee]

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But then I don't know why Sadiq Khan has purchased three armoured and bullet proof compliant Range-rovers, and paid armed security officers to sit in the passenger seats. This is not the usual behaviour for a London Mayor. It has been pointed out that even Boris Johnson used to commute on the tube and public services quite often, as do a lot of other high profile people, and they did so alone, not surrounded by armed security.

Complete mystery to me why Johnson, a white racist, didn't receive death threats from white racists.