Scottish Independence

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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'Doesn't 'make sense how? They could support the Tories in Scotland. I suspect one reason will be to maximise the anti Labour vote across the UK.

That was certainly the case pre-Keir, although they seem to have softened their stance somewhat against the UK's replacement neo-liberal.

[Just Alf]

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Not really as it’s not the big deal you would like it to be. Only likely to be seen by people who hold those views anyway. Or those looking for a grievance

I still think if the owner (or editor) of a newspaper can put out two diametrically opposing headlines about the same story it tells you all you need to know about the paper in question , they're clearly putting their own spin rather than reporting facts.

Mind you, unlike the BBC.... , like The National, we're not expecting them to be "impartial" so fair do's I guess.

Ps I do realise I'm now arguing with myself! :rofl:

[cabbageandribs1875]

Sir Starmer will be ragin

Labour peer backs Humza Yousaf's plan for a written constitution | The National

A SENIOR Labour politician has backed the First Minister’s plan for the creation of a written constitution for Scotland in anticipation for independence.
The Labour peer and human rights lawyer Baroness Helena Kennedy said “people should be going to work on creating a written constitution for an independent Scotland, definitely.

“I would do it now if I were in that camp”.

It comes after Humza Yousaf unveiled official plans for an independent Scotland to have a “permanent” constitution based on the values of the people.
He said that the constitution “would set out how democracy, rights and equality would be at the heart of everything we do as an independent nation”.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Sir Starmer will be ragin

Labour peer backs Humza Yousaf's plan for a written constitution | The National

A SENIOR Labour politician has backed the First Minister’s plan for the creation of a written constitution for Scotland in anticipation for independence.
The Labour peer and human rights lawyer Baroness Helena Kennedy said “people should be going to work on creating a written constitution for an independent Scotland, definitely.

“I would do it now if I were in that camp”.

It comes after Humza Yousaf unveiled official plans for an independent Scotland to have a “permanent” constitution based on the values of the people.
He said that the constitution “would set out how democracy, rights and equality would be at the heart of everything we do as an independent nation”.

I don't think he will be that bothered. If Scotland were to be an independent nation most people would agree it would need a written constitution and these things take an inordinate amount of time. There was a decent start to a discussion earlier today about it on the Labour thread.

What's not being said here is that Humza's plan isn't a plan yet, it is just an idea. It would be difficult to formulate a constitution without knowing what any process was for leaving the union.

What's also not being said but is hilarious is that this tentative idea, insofar as there's much detail to comment on, is pretty much a direct but weaker lift of Gordon Brown's proposal for the UK from last year

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery eh? In fact if Scotland is to be independent, would we not be better tucking Humza safely back into his play pen and giving the job to a grown-up? El Presidente Gordon Brown sounds good to me. And let's face it, he's got a greater intellect than the current Scottish Cabinet combined

[Just Alf]

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I don't think he will be that bothered. If Scotland were to be an independent nation most people would gree it would need a written constitution and these things take an inordinate amount of time. There was a decent start to a discussion earlier today about it on the Labour thread.

What's not being said here is that Humza's plan isn't a plan yet, it is just an idea. It would be difficult to formulate a constitution without knowing what any process was for leaving the union.

What's also not being said but is hilarious is that this tentative idea, insofar as there's much detail to comment on, is pretty much a direct but weaker lift of Gordon Brown's proposal for the UK from last year

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery eh? In fact if Scotland is to be independent, would we not be better tucking Humza safely back into his play pen and giving the job to a grown-up? El Presidente Gordon Brown sounds good to me. And let's face it, he's got a greater intellect than the current Scottish Cabinet combined

There's many that think if independence was to be realised There's a very good chance Labour would be in government at some point, much sooner rather than later, so if GB is still around, and given the leadership by the party, its not inconceivable he'd b up for the top gig

[Mibbes Aye]

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There's many that think if independence was to be realised There's a very good chance Labour would be in government at some point, much sooner rather than later, so if GB is still around, and given the leadership by the party, its not inconceivable he'd b up for the top gig

Vote Yes, Get Gordon?






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[TrumpIsAPeado]

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There's many that think if independence was to be realised There's a very good chance Labour would be in government at some point, much sooner rather than later, so if GB is still around, and given the leadership by the party, its not inconceivable he'd b up for the top gig

He won't though. Because it's far easier to go around making speeches and promising things on behalf of the UK Government (which never need to be held up), while being paid the big poonds. He never needs to worry about being responsible for anything again, while maintaining his generally lucrative life style.

[Glory Lurker]

Scotland will be so diddy on independence that our army will just be Gordon Brown with a bucket of staplers.

[archie]

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He won't though. Because it's far easier to go around making speeches and promising things on behalf of the UK Government (which never need to be held up), while being paid the big poonds. He never needs to worry about being responsible for anything again, while maintaining his generally lucrative life style.

He's such a bad un... https://gordonandsarahbrown.com/office-of-gordon-sarah-brown/

[Mibbes Aye]

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Scotland will be so diddy on independence that our army will just be Gordon Brown with a bucket of staplers.

[Glory Lurker]

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Aye, that's me

What? You got one of those big staplers? Bring it!

[Mibbes Aye]

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Aye, that's me

What? You got one of those big staplers? Bring it!

Say hello to my leetul stapler.......

[Glory Lurker]

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Say hello to my leetul stapler.......

Ha! And I thought hiding a Nokia in my pocket was poor form. Never trust Labour ;-)

[JimBHibees]

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Wonder how his vow is getting on. Still trying to diddle us out of oil revenue by redrawing boundaries. Absolute sell out

[marinello59]

The absence of comment on here about yesterdays talking ( to themselves) shop the SNP held yesterday tells a story. Yousaf’s big idea has been revealed to consist of telling the voters that a vote for the SNP is a vote for independence. He did sort of reveal that having a majority of MPs in Scotland now rather than having the majority of the vote would be mandate required to ask for a referundum but even that needed clarification. The summer will be spent telling the membership to accept that and vote for it at conference in October. Anybody still think we will see independence in the next ten years if at all? Asking people to lend their vote for another decade is going to see far fewer takers now.

[grunt]

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The absence of comment on here about yesterdays talking ( to themselves) shop the SNP held yesterday tells a story.

Interested* to hear what story you think it tells. For me, there's no longer any point in posting positive SNP stories any more because of all the usual suspects who jump on the thread and like nothing better than to piss on our chips with their dull "Scotland-is-crap-we'll-never-be-able-to cope-on-our-own-and-SNP-are-all-crooks" mantra. So I'll just eat my nice Indy chips quietly on my own and let all the boring negative unionists blow each other off.

It's like trying to have a discussion praising Hibs on Kickback - not worth the effort.

*Actually, not interested at all.

[Callum_62]

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The absence of comment on here about yesterdays talking ( to themselves) shop the SNP held yesterday tells a story. Yousaf’s big idea has been revealed to consist of telling the voters that a vote for the SNP is a vote for independence. He did sort of reveal that having a majority of MPs in Scotland now rather than having the majority of the vote would be mandate required to ask for a referundum but even that needed clarification. The summer will be spent telling the membership to accept that and vote for it at conference in October. Anybody still think we will see independence in the next ten years if at all? Asking people to lend their vote for another decade is going to see far fewer takers now.

I don't even know why it's an argument or a debate about how having the majority of mps being a mandate

Is only became a debate as the unionist parties wanted to muddy the waters

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[marinello59]

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Interested* to hear what story you think it tells. For me, there's no longer any point in posting positive SNP stories any more because of all the usual suspects who jump on the thread and like nothing better than to piss on our chips with their dull "Scotland-is-crap-we'll-never-be-able-to cope-on-our-own-and-SNP-are-all-crooks" mantra. So I'll just eat my nice Indy chips quietly on my own and let all the boring negative unionists blow each other off.

It's like trying to have a discussion praising Hibs on Kickback - not worth the effort.

*Actually, not interested at all.

There were over five hundred empty seats at the Caird Hall yesterday. Given the amount of members the SNP have and the lack of comment from the faithful here it looks like yesterdays workshop has been met with a collective “meh”

I shouldn’t have to add this but I’ve supported Independence my whole adult life and I’m one of the older posters. criticising the SNP is not the same as talking Scotland down.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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The absence of comment on here about yesterdays talking ( to themselves) shop the SNP held yesterday tells a story. Yousaf’s big idea has been revealed to consist of telling the voters that a vote for the SNP is a vote for independence. He did sort of reveal that having a majority of MPs in Scotland now rather than having the majority of the vote would be mandate required to ask for a referundum but even that needed clarification. The summer will be spent telling the membership to accept that and vote for it at conference in October. Anybody still think we will see independence in the next ten years if at all? Asking people to lend their vote for another decade is going to see far fewer takers now.

Well who else are they going to lend their vote to? One of the oppressors?

[lapsedhibee]

Didn't hear any of the workshopping/speeches at the Caird Hall but was quite impressed at Yousaf interrupting his own speech to go and speak to a distressed woman heckling. Can't imagine any other current party leader doing that. Also heard him speak well of John Smith early on in his leadership when he had a microphone shoved in his face. For me so far it's Yousaf 2, Scooter 1.

[Skol]

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Well who else are they going to lend their vote to? One of the oppressors?

That’s the problem for the independence movement. sNP are the only show in town. Now that some of their shortcomings are being more widely accepted from within their own support, they have a problem

Yesterdays announcement for me is an attempt to stem the flow of votes away from the snp. Whether that’s to stop people turning elsewhere or just from not voting at all. Yousaf needs that 47% Indy support to vote snp. Hence why he is dangling the carrot in much the same way sturgeon used to

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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That’s the problem for the independence movement. sNP are the only show in town. Now that some of their shortcomings are being more widely accepted from within their own support, they have a problem

Yesterdays announcement for me is an attempt to stem the flow of votes away from the snp. Whether that’s to stop people turning elsewhere or just from not voting at all. Yousaf needs that 47% Indy support to vote snp. Hence why he is dangling the carrot in much the same way sturgeon used to

Every political party has their shortcomings. I agree that there is a risk of a lower turn out, but I certainly don't see SNP voters switching over to another party that is responsible for effectively making a future referendum impossible. What I think will happen is that Labour will gain seats from the SNP in Scotland, not from SNP voters, but from Conservative voters that they've been dangling the carrot in front of for the last 3 years. They'll then try and claim that support for independence in Scotland is dropping due to the drop in SNP seats, even if the SNP vote share hasn't gone down at all. They think we're idiots up here.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Every political party has their shortcomings. I agree that there is a risk of a lower turn out, but I certainly don't see SNP voters switching over to another party that is responsible for effectively making a future referendum impossible. What I think will happen is that Labour will gain seats from the SNP in Scotland, not from SNP voters, but from Conservative voters that they've been dangling the carrot in front of for the last 3 years. They'll then try and claim that support for independence in Scotland is dropping due to the drop in SNP seats, even if the SNP vote share hasn't gone down at all. They think we're idiots up here.

It's idiotic to think there's isnt a huge probability some snp voters will go to Labour, especially as it seems it will help bring Labour to power.

[Skol]

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It's idiotic to think there's isnt a huge probability some snp voters will go to Labour, especially as it seems it will help bring Labour to power.

I agree that it’s. Pre likely that independence voters will just not vote. Some though will return to vote labour as it’s a realistic route to getting rid of the tories.

[archie]

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Every political party has their shortcomings. I agree that there is a risk of a lower turn out, but I certainly don't see SNP voters switching over to another party that is responsible for effectively making a future referendum impossible. What I think will happen is that Labour will gain seats from the SNP in Scotland, not from SNP voters, but from Conservative voters that they've been dangling the carrot in front of for the last 3 years. They'll then try and claim that support for independence in Scotland is dropping due to the drop in SNP seats, even if the SNP vote share hasn't gone down at all. They think we're idiots up here.

The entitlement here is staggering. Labour got a sore face in Scotland because they acted in an entitled way. Do people never learn?

[Ozyhibby]

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It's idiotic to think there's isnt a huge probability some snp voters will go to Labour, especially as it seems it will help bring Labour to power.

I’m not so sure it will be in the numbers getting predicted now. We still have to go through a campaign where Labour will tell the 50% of Scottish voters they can never have the independence that they want under Labour. Also Sarwar will have to campaign. Just now he is protected in that he rarely gives interviews, when he does he gets soft ball questions and he never shows up in the parliament except for FMQ’s when he has to. He’s not a great performer. Debates might be difficult for him.
If you support Indy and you have Labour spending 6 weeks telling you no chance then it might be difficult to then go vote for them.
Biggest problem for the SNP will be if their voters stay at home. That is the biggest threat.


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[Ozyhibby]

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The entitlement here is staggering. Labour got a sore face in Scotland because they acted in an entitled way. Do people never learn?

I don’t see any entitlement in that post?


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[TrumpIsAPeado]

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I agree that it’s. Pre likely that independence voters will just not vote. Some though will return to vote labour as it’s a realistic route to getting rid of the tories.

Yet, it's not a realistic route for getting rid of the tories whatsoever. Which is one of the major reasons people support independence in the first place. Nobody that seriously wants independence in Scotland is going to vote for Keir Starmer's gang.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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I don’t see any entitlement in that post?


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There wasn't. I was simply declaring what I believe will happen.

[archie]

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There wasn't. I was simply declaring what I believe will happen.

The assumption that no one who voted SNP will vote Labour is, at best complacent and very entitled. That attitude did for Labour in Scotland.