Scottish Independence

[StevieC]

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If you mean the bit I said about social care and buses and streets and stuff, I think you are right and I worded it clumsily.

I've posted before that the biggest impact on most people's lives, especially vulnerable people, in Scotland has sat with local authorities and the territorial health boards. I'm sure you are no stranger to people talking about services they value and need but dont know that they are supports that the council provides or pays for.

It got caught up in another point about the shift to the centre. No doubt you will know Perth and Kinross Health and Social Care Partnership well, you might be one of the elected members with voting riights on the IJB. The proposals to reorganise social care are a good example of a power grab - COSLA, SOLACE and the unions have found common ground there I think.

I’m not on the IJB, but I’m on the committee for Environment and also vice-convener on Education, which is a huge responsibility and encompasses so much more than just schools and teaching. There’s a huge amount of work around additional support needs, attainment, positive destinations and linking that in with families, support and fighting poverty. On top of that you have an SNP led administration that is focussed on making serious changes at local level (right down to trying to change a “council mindset” that has been endemic for years).

This is why I challenged your earlier statement on the Scottish Government v Local Authority. Power still lies with Local Authority (assuming you have a committed local authority focused on making a difference) and the limits are around budget constraints, not Scottish Government interference.

Oh, I’m also the Council administration representative on Live Active Leisure, who were on the news recently around possible closure of the Perth Leisure Pool and the Dewars Centre (the hub for Scottish curling). Both of which were averted (for the time being) because of the Council Administration and their focus on health and well being.

[Mibbes Aye]

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I’m not on the IJB, but I’m on the committee for Environment and also vice-convener on Education, which is a huge responsibility and encompasses so much more than just schools and teaching. There’s a huge amount of work around additional support needs, attainment, positive destinations and linking that in with families, support and fighting poverty. On top of that you have an SNP led administration that is focussed on making serious changes at local level (right down to trying to change a “council mindset” that has been endemic for years).

This is why I challenged your earlier statement on the Scottish Government v Local Authority. Power still lies with Local Authority (assuming you have a committed local authority focused on making a difference) and the limits are around budget constraints, not Scottish Government interference.

Oh, I’m also the Council administration representative on Live Active Leisure, who were on the news recently around possible closure of the Perth Leisure Pool and the Dewars Centre (the hub for Scottish curling). Both of which were averted (for the time being) because of the Council Administration and their focus on health and well being.

So, do you know what Humza meant by a 'wellbeing economy then?

I think councils and their community planning partners play a vital role in all our lives but a lot of services have suffered, withered even, as a consequence of a number of things - increasing demands in social care due to demographic pressure, inflation driving up staffing costs etc etc, but also policy decisions from the centre. The problem for local authorities is, as you know, that education and social care are the two biggest spends and to an extent your hands are tied because they cover services that you have to deliver.

Services that are early intervention or preventative have suffered, because of the council tax freeze and then the 'flat cash' settlements, which are cuts in real terms. The CTF was a deliberate move by the SG, it was a populist move and it didnt benefit the poorest in society, it actually caused harm because it wasnt fully funded and when the books don't balance, the stuff that is 'nice to do' loses to the stuff that is 'need to do'. But it is the stuff that's 'nice to do' - the early intervention, prevention and wellbeing initiatives - that help services afrom being swamped by the need to do' and help steer people away from needing more formalised care - in itself generally a positive outcome.

The NCS proposals are essentially taking your social care budget away from you and keeping it for ministers to allocate. That's not localism. I don't know which ward you have but I suspect you know a fair bit more about resource pressures for care in Kilspindie or Balbeggie than Maree Todd, or more likely, a few civil servants at St Andrew's House or Victoria Quay do. Just as an aside I have high hopes for Todd. She has direct professional experience in primary care and she should understand the issues around rurality and remoteness, given her constituency.

Anyway, you're an SNP councillor and I dont expect you to be scathing about SG on a messageboard, thats unfair. I will repeat the point though - COSLA and SOLACE and the unions have all expressed significant concerns about this and wth the first two, it is worry about SG diminishing the autonomy of local authorities. And as you will know, COSLA's president and three of the five spokespersons are SNP, hey are calling it out for what it is.

[AgentDaleCooper]

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That sort of thing reminds me of Stewart Lee, in Glasgow, doing his Braveheart routine.

You would have to be ridiculously thin-skinned not to laugh with Lee's jokes.

Lee's jokes are funny and extremely well crafted, and the butt of the joke is patriotism and natiinalism, not Scotland.

The MP in westminster is being flippant about her own country's awful history, and the butt of the joke is Scotland and its people.

I'm not 'offended', i just think it shows what smug, colonial tossers there are in westminster, especially in the tory party.

[StevieC]

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Anyway, you're an SNP councillor and I dont expect you to be scathing about SG on a messageboard, thats unfair.

I don't have a problem with being scathing, for example I'd agree the council tax freeze was a disaster. Thankfully no longer in place, but it will take time to recover from it. I can't agree that the SG is diminishing autonomy away from local authorities. Maybe it's because we are an SNP led administration that a lot of the SG directives are pretty much aligned with that of the administration, and directives can have additional funds provided by the SG.

The budgets that local authorities receive is not enough, that much is pretty clear. Of course you could blame the SG for that (and the CTF was certainly a factor) but ultimately .. whether you like it or not .. it's a fixed budget and when you have to utilise large proportions of that to SG initiatives (such as mitigating bedroom tax, free prescriptions, free schooling, etc. etc.) then it is clearly going to have a detrimental effect. Yes, you can blame it all on the SG that local authorities are struggling but it's also not fair to point out the areas that have suffered without also stating that it is wholly wrong for them to use part of the budget for some of the other things mentioned.
If, for example, you are saying that free prescription, free schooling, etc. are things that benefit those that are dealing with poverty you've got to accept that there will be other areas that could suffer. If you can't, then you are effectively using the Labour model for budgeting whereby they simply say they will pay for everything (despite the reality being somewhat different).

Anyway, I'd better stop before I say too much and find myself hauled up by the leader of the council

[Mibbes Aye]

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I don't have a problem with being scathing, for example I'd agree the council tax freeze was a disaster. Thankfully no longer in place, but it will take time to recover from it. I can't agree that the SG is diminishing autonomy away from local authorities. Maybe it's because we are an SNP led administration that a lot of the SG directives are pretty much aligned with that of the administration, and directives can have additional funds provided by the SG.

The budgets that local authorities receive is not enough, that much is pretty clear. Of course you could blame the SG for that (and the CTF was certainly a factor) but ultimately .. whether you like it or not .. it's a fixed budget and when you have to utilise large proportions of that to SG initiatives (such as mitigating bedroom tax, free prescriptions, free schooling, etc. etc.) then it is clearly going to have a detrimental effect. Yes, you can blame it all on the SG that local authorities are struggling but it's also not fair to point out the areas that have suffered without also stating that it is wholly wrong for them to use part of the budget for some of the other things mentioned.
If, for example, you are saying that free prescription, free schooling, etc. are things that benefit those that are dealing with poverty you've got to accept that there will be other areas that could suffer. If you can't, then you are effectively using the Labour model for budgeting whereby they simply say they will pay for everything (despite the reality being somewhat different).

Anyway, I'd better stop before I say too much and find myself hauled up by the leader of the council

Fair play and I think it's a good point about how the cost of those universal benefits means maing difficult choices elsewhere.

Local authorities have seems like a near-impossible challenge in reconciling what they need to do as a statutory requirement, while knowing that there is so much they could do with more funding upstream but not being able to. SG keeping the funding for social care, if the proposals are implemented, will certainly make for some interesting times!

[StevieC]

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Local authorities have seems like a near-impossible challenge in reconciling what they need to do as a statutory requirement, while knowing that there is so much they could do with more funding upstream but not being able to.

We’ve gone a bit off topic, in regards to the workings of local authorities and Independence (although there is potentially a big link around funding if you believe we could be a prosperous country with Independence).

I will respond to your last post though, and then call it a day.
As someone that started a business 32 years ago, at a time when there was lots of local funding available to support new businesses, I’ve had my eyes opened. It’s almost as if prudent practices and common sense have been replaced by phrase such as “that’s not how we do it”, “we can’t do that”, “it has to be done this way”. That mindset in itself is a major fault within local authorities, and I don’t think it will be any surprise to hear me say that I’ve been shocked by some of the levels of wastage, and more so the fact that it is accepted.

That said, the Administration that I am involved in genuinely wants to make real changes and individual Councillors are being supported in their ideas.

I would love to chat about the proactive things I (and others) have been doing, and the changes for the better that could do, but a message board isn’t the place … because a certain Murdo Fraser would find it, twist it, and put it out in his Twitter that the Perth SNP were in chaos and messing things up 🙄

I’ll mention one thing though .. being involved in a charity, and how crucial the purchase of a minibus was for Dnipro Kids, I’d asked about the disposal of council minibuses and our ability to support local charities that might benefit. I was told by a fleet manager that they had to go to an independent auction (that they had a contract with), that there were procedures in place that had to be adhered to and it just wasn’t possible. Now I’ve never really been one to just accept that something can’t be done 😉🇺🇦 so I took it to my group (one of whom had said he’d asked previously and also been told it wasn’t possible) and they were all, along with the council leader, supportive of my idea. So I went back to the fleet manager and we sat and discussed how that might be changed if there was a willingness to do so. We got on quite well, and he is currently drafting a workable policy that will allow PKC to provide a way for local charities to submit applications that would allow them to bid for vehicles that would benefit them (and ultimately PKC residents with a need). As with many council related things the process to implement is not a fast one, but if it comes off it will hopefully be one of many things I’ll be able to look back on during my time as a Councillor and be able to say I helped make a difference. 😉

[cabbageandribs1875]

i've been convinced for years now an Independent Scotland would see huge investment Scotland more attractive to foreign investment than UK and Europe | The National


only British Unionists want to convince us otherwise

[Ozyhibby]

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i've been convinced for years now an Independent Scotland would see huge investment Scotland more attractive to foreign investment than UK and Europe | The National


only British Unionists want to convince us otherwise

I think NI might start to pull ahead in next couple of years. UK govt putting a lot of effort into huge trade shows in Belfast just now trying to show NI protocol works. Biden has promised big American business setting up there as well. They now have a huge advantage over Scotland.


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[Just Alf]

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I think NI might start to pull ahead in next couple of years. UK govt putting a lot of effort into huge trade shows in Belfast just now trying to show NI protocol works. Biden has promised big American business setting up there as well. They now have a huge advantage over Scotland.


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And yet the UK government have told the Scottish one that they're not allowed to pursue inward investment etc in the same way. They've even stopped a conference on the future of Artificial Intelligence involving all.4 home nations because it was led by the Scottish government (according to the BBC the other week)

[Mibbes Aye]

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i've been convinced for years now an Independent Scotland would see huge investment Scotland more attractive to foreign investment than UK and Europe | The National


only British Unionists want to convince us otherwise

I am not saying the editors at the National are stupid, but have they not just run a story there that says Scotland is doing well on foreign investment and that’s building on earlier success?

Or to put it another way, isn’t devolved, non-independent Scotland doing well?

If you are making an argument for the union, you are going to say “Look! Scotland is doing well! Why risk that” whereas the argument for independence is, well, I’m not really sure but I’m guessing they need to go with “doing well, and this wouldn’t change or would get better if there was independence”.

Now, I’m a starry-eyed dreamer, if you want to offer me hope and broad, sunlit uplands, then I will be instinctively minded to give you my vote. But a lot of people aren’t. Global markers aren’t.

I guess the National isn’t looking to play the role of persuading the undecideds though, it is playing the role of boosting morale for the front line. Which is absolutely fair enough

[Ozyhibby]

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I am not saying the editors at the National are stupid, but have they not just run a story there that says Scotland is doing well on foreign investment and that’s building on earlier success?

Or to put it another way, isn’t devolved, non-independent Scotland doing well?

If you are making an argument for the union, you are going to say “Look! Scotland is doing well! Why risk that” whereas the argument for independence is, well, I’m not really sure but I’m guessing they need to go with “doing well, and this wouldn’t change or would get better if there was independence”.

Now, I’m a starry-eyed dreamer, if you want to offer me hope and broad, sunlit uplands, then I will be instinctively minded to give you my vote. But a lot of people aren’t. Global markers aren’t.

I guess the National isn’t looking to play the role of persuading the undecideds though, it is playing the role of boosting morale for the front line. Which is absolutely fair enough

Doing well is pushing it. Doing better than rest of UK outside London? Fair enough.
We’ve brought in some investment but in nobodies mind is the Scottish economy doing well.


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[Mibbes Aye]

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Doing well is pushing it. Doing better than rest of UK outside London? Fair enough.
We’ve brought in some investment but in nobodies mind is the Scottish economy doing well.


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Fair comment, but the thrust of my point stands. The National are not doing pro-Indy any favours by printing that

[Ozyhibby]

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Fair comment, but the thrust of my point stands. The National are not doing pro-Indy any favours by printing that

I think that it’s interesting that two areas with a bit of autonomy to go out and promote themselves internationally are doing the best. London and Scotland. There is nobody out there promoting Yorkshire or Somerset.
So a little bit of autonomy works. Although it is now being taken back in Scotland case and we are no longer allowed to promote Scotland abroad.
The question is, if a little bit of autonomy works, does a big bit work better?
The SG does ok promoting Scotland abroad but not great. I know this because my mate works for DiT. He’s very much a unionist and anti SNP but recognises the advantage Scotland and London have in being able to promote themselves abroad. He’s also the one who tells me that NI is going to smash it over next few years due to their position still in the EU. It’s Ireland without the high property prices. Very attractive for investment.


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[Mibbes Aye]

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I think that it’s interesting that two areas with a bit of autonomy to go out and promote themselves internationally are doing the best. London and Scotland. There is nobody out there promoting Yorkshire or Somerset.
So a little bit of autonomy works. Although it is now being taken back in Scotland case and we are no longer allowed to promote Scotland abroad.
The question is, if a little bit of autonomy works, does a big bit work better?
The SG does ok promoting Scotland abroad but not great. I know this because my mate works for DiT. He’s very much a unionist and anti SNP but recognises the advantage Scotland and London have in being able to promote themselves abroad. He’s also the one who tells me that NI is going to smash it over next few years due to their position still in the EU. It’s Ireland without the high property prices. Very attractive for investment.


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I agree with you on NI and I know your info will be 100%.

I'm not sure what's holding Yotkshire and Somerset back is autonomy though

But if it is, and that's the case for Scotland too, then we should be embracing Gordon Brown's constitutional review, no? More power to the nations and regions, and even better, more power below that.

[Ozyhibby]

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I agree with you on NI and I know your info will be 100%.

I'm not sure what's holding Yotkshire and Somerset back is autonomy though

But if it is, and that's the case for Scotland too, then we should be embracing Gordon Brown's constitutional review, no? More power to the nations and regions, and even better, more power below that.

Think I’ll wait and see if Starmer embraces it? Will it make the manifesto?


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[Mibbes Aye]

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Think I’ll wait and see if Starmer embraces it? Will it make the manifesto?


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(drum roll)

[Glory Lurker]

Scotland gets international attention because in the last 10 years we've forced ourselves into global consciousness through the referendum in 2014. It's piqued interest.

[WeeRussell]

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Scotland gets international attention because in the last 10 years we've forced ourselves into global consciousness through the referendum in 2014. It's piqued interest.

Good point. That and the fact we beat everyone we play at football.

[Hibrandenburg]

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I agree with you on NI and I know your info will be 100%.

I'm not sure what's holding Yotkshire and Somerset back is autonomy though

But if it is, and that's the case for Scotland too, then we should be embracing Gordon Brown's constitutional review, no? More power to the nations and regions, and even better, more power below that.

Scotland can't cut its own trade deals without Westminster rubber stamping them. The best marketing and products in the world will only go so far if the deals made don't get authorised.

[archie]

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i've been convinced for years now an Independent Scotland would see huge investment Scotland more attractive to foreign investment than UK and Europe | The National


only British Unionists want to convince us otherwise

The big but is that and independent Scotland would need to be very business friendly. I know Ozyhibby is keen on that, but I wouldn't think many independence supporters here would have that view. From what is posted here anyway.

[Ozyhibby]

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The big but is that and independent Scotland would need to be very business friendly. I know Ozyhibby is keen on that, but I wouldn't think many independence supporters here would have that view. From what is posted here anyway.

I think there is a majority for a more business friendly outlook in the SNP, Labour and Tory party. Forbes would have won but for her ridiculous social policy views. I very much doubt they would have affected govt policy but they were enough to cost her the leadership. Which is a great shame as she would have been the best choice for FM and would have given us a nice change in direction.
If Humza doesn’t see that he needs to change course soon then he will lose seats to Labour at the GE and will be removed. Upcoming by-election will be an early test for him.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/joebrolly1993/st...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

Union dividend.


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[Mibbes Aye]

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https://twitter.com/joebrolly1993/st...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

Union dividend.


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I've told you before about stats. The link there about pensions uses a table that measures them as a % of average earnings.

But average earnings are not the same across the OECD.

And neither is the cost of living.

Or the cost of healthcare.

So until you factor those in, using pensions as a % of average earnings is really not helpful.

I think I've said it before, it's like Top Trumps cards. If you put down Gordon Strachan you wouldn't go with height but you might go with caps, Dave Narey vice versa.

"Find a stat that fits my cause and put it on Twitter as if I'm Moses coming down from Mount Sinai with tablets of stone" is one of the most excruciatingly inane aspects of modern life.

Rant over

[cabbageandribs1875]

noooooooo the EU wouldn't want us, we're just too wee :(

[Jack]

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I've told you before about stats. The link there about pensions uses a table that measures them as a % of average earnings.

But average earnings are not the same across the OECD.

And neither is the cost of living.

Or the cost of healthcare.

So until you factor those in, using pensions as a % of average earnings is really not helpful.

I think I've said it before, it's like Top Trumps cards. If you put down Gordon Strachan you wouldn't go with height but you might go with caps, Dave Narey vice versa.

"Find a stat that fits my cause and put it on Twitter as if I'm Moses coming down from Mount Sinai with tablets of stone" is one of the most excruciatingly inane aspects of modern life.

Rant over

Perhaps you should direct your rant at the Financial Times and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. I'm sure they'll appreciate your input as much as we do 😆

[grunt]

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Perhaps you should direct your rant at the Financial Times and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. I'm sure they'll appreciate your input as much as we do 😆

What does the OECD know? Far better to listen to dot netters.

[Mibbes Aye]

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noooooooo the EU wouldn't want us, we're just too wee :(

That will fit in nicely with the EU's own net zero target then.

Cutting greenhouse gas emissions by more than half of their 1990 level, by 2030.

Climate-neutral by 2050.

Oil is the unwanted guest at the dinner party. and so it should be. I'm not interested in funding saltire wet dreams at the expense of the planet.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Perhaps you should direct your rant at the Financial Times and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. I'm sure they'll appreciate your input as much as we do 😆

Perhaps I will decide if I reply to Ozy's post or not. Because I was replying to his point.

This is meant to be a place for discussion or debate. Unfortunately some people seem to struggle with that concept.

Do you really want an echo chamber?

[Mibbes Aye]

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What does the OECD know? Far better to listen to dot netters.

What's far better is to appreciate the difference.

The OECD, amongst other things, is very good at producing data.

What that data might imply is a discussion point. For dot nettere, as an example.

[archie]

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What does the OECD know? Far better to listen to dot netters.

The OECD does indeed know https://www.oecd.org/publications/oecd-pensions-at-a-glance-19991363.htm