The Trans Rights Debate

[Kato]

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The guy was wearing a dress, was he trans or just a gay guy wearing a dress? sometimes we need to look at these people as simply humans doing what they feel is natural and get on with our own lives. If a man is portraying as a woman and he gets grief in the street, that would be homophobia, whether he had a wig on or not.

I'm reminded of the Kevin Rowland reply, "It's a mans dress."

https://youtube.com/watch?v=r54fZikFOu8&feature=share8

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[archie]

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I'm reminded of the Kevin Rowland reply, "It's a mans dress."

https://youtube.com/watch?v=r54fZikFOu8&feature=share8

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I see your Kevin Rowland and raise you...David Bowie!

[He's here!]

Unfair Play: The Battle for Women’s Sport by Sharron Davies review — women are being cheated of medals (thetimes.co.uk)

Davies certainly knows what she's talking about. Cheated out of gold by one of the testosterone-fuelled East Germans of that era, who essentially enjoyed the advantages biological males are now bringing to 'women's' sport.

[Paul1642]

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It's not the 50s the vast majority don't care who trans people sleep with, marry or wear. The only discussion is how we can give trans people every right without losing any hard gotten rights of biological women. Trying to stear it away from just the discussion on they small nuances is ridiculous.

Almost all on here agree trans women shouldn't play professional female sports, to some that would make us horrible transphobes, obviously to the vast majority that's nonsense.

Female prisons is obviously another that blew up. Yes we want trans to have every right they can, but sorry biological females must be protected there.

Unfortunately one group wants trans to have every right whether they effect women and the other side won't budge from wanting a few caveats, so we're stuck

This is 100% the issue. I, and most tolerant people couldn’t give a crap what other people do and have no issues whatsoever with people choosing to be trans.

The big problem here is that women’s rights, safety and privacy are potentially at risk and if woman don’t want someone born a man sharing a changing room then they should be fully entitled to that right.

Also the decisions (mainly in certain American states) allowing children to transition are completely irresponsible. In a country where you can’t drink until your 21 it is insane that irreversible life changing (and life ruining if you later regret it) changes are happening and being almost encouraged by a very vocal minority.

In Scotland we have (wrongly IMO) decided that until you are 25 you are not fully matured and therefore receive much more lenient sentencing at court.

This popped up on my twitter a few days ago.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12209919/amp/Full-audio-Student-rejected-classmates-claim-shes-CAT-scolded-teacher.html

Kids being scolded by a teacher, called despicable and told that they should find a new school for disagreeing that it is normal that their classmate identifies as a cat. The kids come over pretty reasonable and mature in the recording whereas the teacher is very stubborn.

Where do we draw the line? I’m all for people doing what makes them happy but a young teenager identifying as an animal probably needs a lot of help rather than endorsement and encouragement.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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Where do we draw the line? I’m all for people doing what makes them happy but a young teenager identifying as an animal probably needs a lot of help rather than endorsement and encouragement.

Do you even have the full context behind this? Perhaps the kid was just messing around, using their imagination. As kids do. The teacher dealt with that conversation poorly. But we don't know absolutely everything that led up to that conversation in the first place. Perhaps the children in that clip were bullying or belittling those who felt unsure about their gender identity, which is not ok either. Unprofessional from the teacher, but you have to wonder what part those kids parents play in their mindset to think that it's ok to single out other people and claim that they're somehow mentally ill, just because they're going through something that they can't fully comprehend.

[speedy_gonzales]

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This popped up on my twitter a few days ago.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12209919/amp/Full-audio-Student-rejected-classmates-claim-shes-CAT-scolded-teacher.html

Kids being scolded by a teacher, called despicable and told that they should find a new school for disagreeing that it is normal that their classmate identifies as a cat. The kids come over pretty reasonable and mature in the recording whereas the teacher is very stubborn.

Where do we draw the line? I’m all for people doing what makes them happy but a young teenager identifying as an animal probably needs a lot of help rather than endorsement and encouragement.

And yet in this article, and others, no classmate identified as a cat. The young girl said something along the lines that if someone identified as a cat, that would be crazy.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Unfair Play: The Battle for Women’s Sport by Sharron Davies review — women are being cheated of medals (thetimes.co.uk)

Davies certainly knows what she's talking about. Cheated out of gold by one of the testosterone-fuelled East Germans of that era, who essentially enjoyed the advantages biological males are now bringing to 'women's' sport.

Guess you missed this from a year ago.

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jun/19/transgender-swimmers-barred-from-female-competitions-after-fina-vote?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAg M%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16872685511738&ref errer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https% 3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fsport%2F2022%2Fjun%2 F19%2Ftransgender-swimmers-barred-from-female-competitions-after-fina-vote

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm reposting this as it seems to have been missed by most.


https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e_iOSApp_Other

[He's here!]

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Guess you missed this from a year ago.

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampp...fter-fina-vote

I didn't miss it, but that's not the issue. The link I posted is a review of her new book (out this week) where she recounts that disgraceful Olympic experience (the East German's gold has still not been rescinded) and the point being made is that those claiming a ban on trans women taking part in women's sports categories is transphobic are choosing to ignore the absurd and destructive advantage they enjoy as biological males.

The abuse Davies has taken (and the loss of the majority of her work) since sticking her head above the parapet on this is outrageous.

[CropleyWasGod]

Interesting.....


https://gayexpress.co.nz/2023/06/wor...-over-cis-man/

[Stairway 2 7]

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Interesting.....


https://gayexpress.co.nz/2023/06/wor...-over-cis-man/

Not really. If you enjoy boxing you won't really look at the first 8 fights as they are exhibition in all but name. Your not a fan of biology if you think this is going to continue

Boxing has been generally good in banning biological males from smashing females. Unfortunately mma not so. Fallon fox born a male broke her opponents skull, sick imo

[CropleyWasGod]

Not sure whether this belongs here, or in the Tory-bashing thread.

Whatever, it's your Friday funny

https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/s...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[Just Alf]

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Not sure whether this belongs here, or in the Tory-bashing thread.

Whatever, it's your Friday funny

https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/s...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Love this reply!

https://twitter.com/Mckendrick36/sta...TYdM0KLeQ&s=19

[147lothian]

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Love this reply!

https://twitter.com/Mckendrick36/sta...TYdM0KLeQ&s=19

Helen Joyce explains very well why gender ideology is nonsense.

[Keith_M]

I got a letter from the NHS last week with my name as 'Miss Keith Mc.....'


I blame Nicola Sturgeon!

[He's here!]

Maya Forstater: Woman gets payout for discrimination over trans tweets - BBC News

[superfurryhibby]

The number of people who said they were not the same gender as their birth sex amounted to 0.5% of the population that responded, lower than polling by Ipsos last summer in which 3.1% of people said they were trans, non-binary, gender queer or gender fluid, a gender or another gender that was not male or female.

The tally is, however, similar to Canada, which in 2021 became the first country to apply a census to its transgender and non-binary population aged 15 and over, which found they made up 0.33% of the population.

The England and Wales census also recorded sexuality for the first time, with 1.5 million people aged over 15 – or 3.2% – identifying as gay or lesbian, bisexual or other sexual orientation. The charity Stonewall, which has long called for the inclusion of gender and sexual identity questions, described the results as “a historic step”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...for-first-time

[archie]

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The number of people who said they were not the same gender as their birth sex amounted to 0.5% of the population that responded, lower than polling by Ipsos last summer in which 3.1% of people said they were trans, non-binary, gender queer or gender fluid, a gender or another gender that was not male or female.

The tally is, however, similar to Canada, which in 2021 became the first country to apply a census to its transgender and non-binary population aged 15 and over, which found they made up 0.33% of the population.

The England and Wales census also recorded sexuality for the first time, with 1.5 million people aged over 15 – or 3.2% – identifying as gay or lesbian, bisexual or other sexual orientation. The charity Stonewall, which has long called for the inclusion of gender and sexual identity questions, described the results as “a historic step”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...for-first-time

Not everyone will like the author, but this piece explores the isue that some people had understanding the question https://unherd.com/2023/04/how-the-t...ooled-britain/

[Ozyhibby]

https://archive.is/KRY73

Bloody SNP.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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https://archive.is/KRY73

Bloody SNP.


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Beast should go to a male prison

[He's here!]

Trans charity Mermaids loses challenge against LGB Alliance - BBC News

Common sense prevails.

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-fife-66542300

I'm surprised the original venues were able to cancel his show based on the precedent Joanna Cherry set.

[makaveli1875]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-fife-66542300

I'm surprised the original venues were able to cancel his show based on the precedent Joanna Cherry set.

It's absolutely mental . Who would have thought that free speech would be so viciously attacked in 21st century Scotland , at the Festival of all places .

[archie]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-fife-66542300

I'm surprised the original venues were able to cancel his show based on the precedent Joanna Cherry set.

I think Leith Arches is in for a tricky time. Their statement really damned them.

[He's here!]

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I think Leith Arches is in for a tricky time. Their statement really damned them.

Cherry's threat of legal action saw the Stand beat a hasty retreat (tho we still saw absurd security measures having to be put in place for her show). I'm wondering whether Linehan considered similar against Leith Arches. Maybe that could still come.

[archie]

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Cherry's threat of legal action saw the Stand beat a hasty retreat (tho we still saw absurd security measures having to be put in place for her show). I'm wondering whether Linehan considered similar against Leith Arches. Maybe that could still come.

There's chat about it. TBH I think there was an element of trap about the booking that the venue walked smack into. In some ways I hope there isn't legal action because I suspect they don't have the resources. The Stand did, but saw sense.

[Moulin Yarns]

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There's chat about it. TBH I think there was an element of trap about the booking that the venue walked smack into. In some ways I hope there isn't legal action because I suspect they don't have the resources. The Stand did, but saw sense.

Both cases, the venue was booked by third parties. It only became apparent later on who the 'acts' were. I think in both cases the 'agents' knew what they were doing by not naming who was to appear until after the booking was confirmed.

[archie]

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Both cases, the venue was booked by third parties. It only became apparent later on who the 'acts' were. I think in both cases the 'agents' knew what they were doing by not naming who was to appear until after the booking was confirmed.

I think you are right, though it wouldn't take a phd to work it out. I think the organisers knew there was a chance this would happen and the venue put their foot in the bear trap .

[CropleyWasGod]

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Both cases, the venue was booked by third parties. It only became apparent later on who the 'acts' were. I think in both cases the 'agents' knew what they were doing by not naming who was to appear until after the booking was confirmed.

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I think you are right, though it wouldn't take a phd to work it out. I think the organisers knew there was a chance this would happen and the venue put their foot in the bear trap .

It's Fringe time. This was all about marketing, and Andrew Doyle has played a blinder here. Of course he knew what he was doing, with the "mystery act" and the "reveal" thereof.

At the end of the day, everyone can claim a wee win:-

The venue (and I'm not sure there was ever more than 1) has satisfied their own integrity.

The punters (100 of them?) got their show.

The extremists got a chance to snarl at each other for a bit.

Linehan got a wee boost to his flagging career.

Comedy Unleashed got some PR for their upcoming London gigs.

Doyle got something to chat about on GB News.

[archie]

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It's Fringe time. This was all about marketing, and Andrew Doyle has played a blinder here. Of course he knew what he was doing, with the "mystery act" and the "reveal" thereof.

At the end of the day, everyone can claim a wee win:-

The venue (and I'm not sure there was ever more than 1) has satisfied their own integrity.

The punters (100 of them?) got their show.

The extremists got a chance to snarl at each other for a bit.

Linehan got a wee boost to his flagging career.

Comedy Unleashed got some PR for their upcoming London gigs.

Doyle got something to chat about on GB News.

I agree mostly, but the venue has exposure if legal action was pursued. I'm not sure they will be sued given the wider background.